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We have managed to find a miniature biography of new Hillsong Pastor, Carl Lentz.
Bio
Carl recently wrapped up 7 years of ministry at Wave Church. Before that, he had moved to Australia to pursue biblical training at Hillsong College, which quickly turned into the pursuit of his now wife, Laura, an Australian. Carl claims that Laura is the second greatest Aussie import of all time, only topped by Tim-Tam cookies. Both Carl and Laura embrace a simple, dedicated faith in Jesus and are passionate about delivering the gospel in a method that makes sense to a generation that is desperately seeking a cause that is greater than themselves. He counts it as an honor to lead the first ever Hillsong Church in the United States of America and plans on spending the rest of his life loving life, loving Jesus, loving people and building Hillsong New York City. Carl and Laura have three children under the age of 7, all of which feel a call to play professional basketball and make millions for their father, although it is not clear as to whether the children are aware of this yet. Be sure to follow him on Twitter via (@carllentzNYC).
Source: Events, Premiere Productions, http://www.premierproductions.com/artists/carl-lentz,
We thought it was worth to inform our readers about Carl Lentz’s ministry work at Wave Church. The Hampton Roads reports the following in their ‘Community News’ section,
Local Pastor saves souls to a hip-hop soundtrack.
So it’s Thursday night, and a pastor walks into a bar.
No, really. It’s Thursday night, and a pastor, Carl Lentz, walks into a bar. Specifically the bar wxyz, inside the hip new hotel aloft in Chesapeake during the invite-only party for its opening. The lobby has been transformed into a nightclub. A sea of alcohol flows, and a DJ blasts house music and hip-hop to a mix of corporate types and young socialites.
Olympic runner LaShawn Merritt is here. Todd Askins, who created the clothing line Shmack. Rapper Fam-Lay. Radio jocks Nick Taylor from Z104 and Pavar Snipe from 103 Jamz. Lentz, his dark hair in its trademark state – like he’s just sprinted from the shower – wears an intentionally distressed tweed blazer festooned with patches. He sees friends and joins little clusters of conversation.
“Is that Shay?” he asks about Shay Haley, one of the members of the rock group N.E.R.D. “He has a kid, doesn’t he? I’ve been trying to get him to come out to the church.”
Over the din of the music, Haley is briefed on the guy asking about him, the guy who looks as though he’s just sprung from a fashion magazine’s centerfold.
“Really?” Haley asks, his face twisted in disbelief. “He’s a reverend? What’s the church like?”
And there’s the punch line. A reverend walks into a bar; when he leaves, somebody else knows about his church.
Except it’s not a joke, it’s Lentz’s mission: He’s a man of the cloth and a man about town.
Lentz, a 30-year-old pastor at Wave Church in Virginia Beach, is likely one of very few reverends who’ll go to see rappers Redman and Method Man at The NorVa one week – he’s an ardent rap fan – and deliver a sermon to an audience of 1,000 the next.
He’s an evangelist in skinny jeans, driving a black Cadillac Escalade and saving souls to a hip-hop soundtrack.
“There’s a stereotype,” Lentz says. “A lot of people think of Christians as out of touch. But I say the gospel shouldn’t make you weird. We’re not like those people standing outside the clubs with the posters and the bullhorns. God is bigger than that.
“Jesus was doing the same thing, he was among the prostitutes…. I’m not crazy. I’m not weird. I don’t want to hide my identity as a pastor. I pray those days are over.”
Carl Lentz began making a name for himself when he was a basketball player for Cox High School in Virginia Beach. He was, by his own admission, slightly temperamental, at least on the court, something he attributes to being the sole white guy on a team full of standout black athletes.
He was good enough, however, to draw significant attention to himself, even if it wasn’t all positive. His coach, interviewed for a Virginian-Pilot article on Lentz in 1999, called him “cocky”; he was once accused of using a racial slur on the court, a charge he denies. Nonetheless, Lentz’s talent for playing basketball, talking a good game or a combination of both landed him a spot as a walk-on at North Carolina State University – and all the perks of being a popular athlete.
“It was like in the movies times ninety,” he says one day over coffee at Starbucks on Shore Drive.
He looks like a rock star as he pulls up in his Escalade with its shiny rims. He’s wearing a houndstooth trench coat over a tank top, and a Yankees cap turned sideways. His grandfather’s ring dangles from a chain around his neck.
He’s reluctant to paint a vivid portrait of a college debauchery, but suffice it to say he had fun.
“I was living the life,” he says, uncharacteristically turning his eyes away from the conversation. “Not hardcore drugs. Obviously the opposite sex.”
He looks down.
“That whole world.”
He looks up again.
“The big advantage now is that I know there’s nothing there. You can’t tell me I don’t know what it’s like.”
Lentz grew up in a Baptist church but didn’t connect with the church experience. He didn’t see many people his age there.
One weekend home from school, his parents urged him to go to church. He had nothing against it per se, and he’d always obeyed his parents, so he went. What could be the harm? He chose a service led by Steve Kelly, an Australian minister who came from a church known for a unique music ministry – modern songs appealing to young people.
Kelly remembers that day.
“After the service, I ran up to him and said, ‘Hey, I know your parents.’ And he was expecting, ‘Oh boy, here we go. I’m playing basketball, not walking with God, and he’s going to judge me.’ And I said to him, ‘You play ball? That’s awesome. I’m proud of you. It’s a gift.’ And it blew him away. I just accepted him where he was, and I have no doubt that made him want to reconnect with God.”
At that service, Lentz accepted Christ as his savior.
He went back to college but felt something was missing. In his sophomore year, he transferred to Virginia Wesleyan.
Then he studied at the Hillsong International Leadership College in Australia, but, slightly overwhelmed by all the sudden life changes, he returned to the United States and joined a Bible college in California, “the porn capitol of the world,” he points out. He got his first tattoo, a sword on fire, on Sunset Boulevard. He worked at the Gucci store part time.
After about a year, he headed back to Australia. There he met Laura and married her in 2003.
Four years ago, Carl and Laura moved to Hampton Roads, expecting their first child.
Right away, Lentz went to work for Kelly, who is senior pastor of Wave Church on Great Neck Road in Virginia Beach, in the church’s burgeoning youth ministry.
“I saw the call of God in his life,” Kelly says. “Mind you, I don’t think that people should always give up their profession. Not everyone’s got to be a preacher. I do think there is a call of God to be an athlete. But I saw that in him.”
Lentz served as an intern for a year, reporting to the youth minister and assisting with a Wednesday night service geared toward college-aged adults. He then became, to employ the church parlance, “on fire for the Lord.”
Using his gift of gab and his personal connections, he gradually increased the attendance at the Wednesday night service, which he dubbed “Soul Central.” Fifty people turned into 80, 100 to 150, due almost entirely to what Kelly calls Lentz’s evangelical gift – his ability to be a one-man “buzz factory.”
“Within no time at all,” Kelly says, “I told Carl, ‘You run Wednesday night. I don’t want this to be another church service. We don’t have a lot of money and a lot of resources, but what I want you to do is make this a kicking service for college students. I want to walk in there and feel old.’ And Carl just blew it up. I said to my youth pastor, ‘You now work for him.’ “
At a “Soul Central” service last fall, pull-down projector screens played clips of “America’s Funniest Home Videos,” and a band on a stage did a cover of Michael Jackson’s “Beat It.” At one point Lentz, ever the showman, encouraged people to lift their Bibles in the air and use them to high-five one another. He told them to turn to the book of Zachariah.
“Don’t act like you know where that is,” he said. “There is no shame in using the table of contents.”
Roughly 500 people filled the room, a drafty annex of Wave Church’s old building at the same location.
Cut to this year.
Wave Church resides in a stunning Frank Gehry-esque monument of glass and steel; curved walls and high glass panels give the building the airy, cold and modern personality of an airport.
“Soul Central” takes place in a theater-style auditorium with stadium seating, carpeted floors and those tiny aisle lights. The pull-down screens have been replaced by enormous, state-of-the-art monitors.
On Wednesday nights at 8, just as hump-day happy hours across the region are winding down, the flock arrives to strobe lights and stage smoke in the church lobby. Girls appear right on trend in tights and heels; the guys, in their plaid shirts, shaggy hair and slim trousers, look like members of a band.
As the service opens, the rapper Mims’ song “Move if You Wanna” plays, followed by Lady GaGa’s “Just Dance.” It’s very pop-urban Z104 music, and so it’s little coincidence that most Wednesdays you’ll find that station’s music director, Shaggy Stokes, perched on the front row with his wife, Nikki. They are two of roughly 1,000 people who come every week, an audience that seems to grow with every service.
Stokes has known Lentz since ninth grade; Lentz played basketball with Shaggy’s older brother.
Like Lentz, who was torn between his lifestyle and a longing to openly serve God, Stokes felt as though his job would somehow make worshipping the Lord inauthentic. Until he really got to know Carl.
“When I went to lunch with him last October,” Stokes says, “he pulled up on a motorcycle with a Guns N’ Roses T-shirt on.
“I didn’t want to be fake. Like, go to church and then go on the radio and play top-40 music. I still wanted to listen to Young Jeezy and not wear a suit. But he showed me that when you become a Christian you don’t die. I can still be me. He knows about hip-hop, but he’s not afraid to stand there and say, ‘I love Jesus.’ It’s not like it’s a front either, like he comes to church one day and then goes and does another thing. He’s the same dude.”
Not everyone finds this approach completely appropriate. Lentz has been criticized for sometimes going too far in toeing his line between secular and spiritual. This is, after all, a guy with a growing collection of tattoos. Body art, many Christians say, is in direct defiance of Leviticus 19:28, which states: “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord.”
“Somebody at Wave Church once said to me, ‘You need to look more like a pastor,’ ” Lentz says.
He’s been turned away from ministering men at prisons because officials didn’t believe he was a reverend.
“I was pretty taken aback by that. I talked to Steve about it, and he said, ‘Don’t change a thing.’ “
Lentz points out that Leviticus also contains verses prohibiting men from shaving their temples, but most Christians don’t regard haircuts as a sin.
“At the end of the day, it’s a nonissue,” he says. “The heart is what’s important.”
Lentz has limits. He’s not going to a strip club. He might have a glass of wine with dinner occasionally, but he doesn’t drink for sport the way some people his age do.
Sometimes the lines get blurred, and he has to retreat. Not long ago, he went to see the movie “Notorious” about the slain rapper who produced the first album Lentz ever bought. On the album, you can hear the rapper making noises that suggest he’s having sex, but Lentz couldn’t stand watching a scene depicting the Notorious B.I.G. and Lil’ Kim.
“It just went into straight porno,” Lentz says. “It was a good movie up until that point. They had to mess it up with that. I had to leave.”
He hopes the people in his flock would exhibit the same kind of discipline and self-control, but he avoids evoking fire and brimstone if they fall short; his style is to encourage people to do better.
“Everybody is on a journey and at a different spot,” he says. For example, he preaches against premarital sex but knows that some of the young people in the audience do it, or even live together.
“Those are the people you want in church. We want them to have a revelation so they can change. We don’t pull punches. We preach the truth in love. I’m preaching against a lot of what our generation stands for but letting people know that God loves them.”
At a Wednesday service for Wave Church officers preceding “Soul Central,” some people are texting with their Bibles open. Even Laura, Carl’s wife – who is also 30 and a minister at the church, and is expecting their third child – occasionally looks down to tinker with her iPhone during the sermon and take notes.
“Don’t text me saying you’re not coming to church,” Lentz says to the crowd. “That’s some bullshiznit.” And then, parenthetically, “I can get away with that. It’s legal.”
Back to the script.
“I don’t want to hear your excuses…. You should be taking notes. You know if you don’t have a certain amount of notes, you won’t get into heaven.”
The sermon he’s giving is about making it out of a valley, a theme he’s expounded on in various ways in recent weeks, given the state of the world today.
“Psalm 23. That’s a Coolio song, remember?”
Lentz repeats the words to the psalm with the same cadence of the Coolio song.
“Yea, though I walk through the valley of death… ” On cue, nearly everyone in the room starts to sing along. After a few bars, they all crack up.
“That’s not Coolio,” Lentz says, “that’s a promise.”
Ten minutes later, he reinforces the idea that Christians need to stick together.
“Stick to the plan. And stick to your peoples. Yes, we’re using ghetto language. Peoples. Turn to your neighbor, say, ‘Lean on me.’ ” And then, somewhat predictably, the audience begins singing that song. They crack up again.
The mood is decidedly less silly a few Wednesdays later, when Lentz has just finished delivering another sermon to the “Soul Central” crowd about traversing a valley. At one point he limps around the stage with a crutch, a metaphor for trials like bankruptcy or abortion, and then tosses the crutch into the front row.
He has a friend dressed as The Fear Beast – a fuzzy, orange monster meant to personify the bad people you meet when you hit a life valley. Lentz asserts that you shouldn’t get involved romantically with people while you’re at an emotional low point, because when you wake up, you’re stuck with someone who is no good for you. This is a provocative enough idea on its own, but one made all the more entertaining by watching Lentz’s trippy demonstration. Lentz finally breaks free from the beast, and the audience applauds.
“Don’t forget to tell your valley stories,” Lentz says to the audience, roughly equal to three sold-out movie theaters. “It could save someone’s life. But be sure to highlight the part about after Jesus saved you.”
He concludes the service as many pastors do, calling for those who feel it’s time to come to God to make their way to the front as the band plays soft, moving music. A distinct vibe washes over the room, and though it’s hard to pinpoint exactly, it’s there – peace, clarity, renewed purpose, gratitude, something – living and breathing and charging the room.
Dozens of people go down to the stage. The band begins packing up. A large group waits to speak to Carl. He focuses only on the person talking to him, as if there’s no one else in the room.
Lentz talks with each until everyone is gone.
Then he, Laura and their two children decamp to Just George’s, the late-night sister restaurant of Captain George’s on Laskin Road.
When Lentz and his family settle into a booth in the sports bar, they are apparently the last of the Wave crowd to arrive. A table that looks as long as the disciples’ is in the middle of the restaurant, with a cluster of nearly 20 from Wave. A few others sit in a booth, and there’s another group of church people by the door.
Four-year-old Ava and 2-year-old Charlie are allowed to roam around; everybody in here knows the little girls. Nobody comes to Lentz’s table to chat. The family is left alone to eat.
“We’re pretty religious about the time we spend together,” Lentz says.
He and Laura have weekly date nights.
“We go to the movies. We go to random parties. We went to the Wu-Tang show.”
They have a stable of baby sitters from the church who’ll watch the girls until they get back home to their modest two-bedroom townhouse in Virginia Beach, decorated with chic Ikea and Target-styled modernism – and little juice stains and toys on the floor.
It’s pushing midnight; the girls’ crankiness and alligator tears indicate that it’s probably time for them to go to bed. Laura and Ava leave. Charlie has decided to ride with her dad. But before they can get out the door, a guy from the kitchen pops out. He and Lentz talk; they went to high school together.
“He’s a good guy,” Lentz says. “He comes out to the church sometimes.”
Finally, the pastor is off duty. He walks out of the restaurant, Charlie cradled in his arms. He moves the worship CDs scattered in the back seat of the Escalade, loads Charlie in and takes off for home.
Source: Malcolm Venable, Local Pastor saves souls to a hip-hop soundtrack, Hampton Roads, 23/03/2009. (Accessed 15/08/2013.)
Hillsong Church Watch 
Jesus Himself has taught us that to be His true followers, we have to deny ourselves, be born again as new creatures in Christ. Serving Jesus or satan, but not both. Don’t be deceived, people.
Is this God? are you kidding me?
Don’t confuse style with godliness. A singalong with Jesus music from the time he was on earth would probably creep your modern ears out. And even now if you were to go to Tunisia or Iraq or China you would be shocked at how Christians worship. But there should be no expectation of a single Jesus culture. This is why God is the one to judge, not you. You should be praising God that even the Barabous’s are in his Kingdom.
I dont have a problem with Lentz’s mission… From various people I know, who know Carl well, all say the same about him and that he is genuine and all about Jesus and loving people. No I’m not a “fan” or a “follower” of any man but I think that God is using him powerfully. You can see this by the amount of people giving their lives to Jesus each service.. and the people he connects with on daily basis in his world. The unchurched. All the crap of theology and Leviticus scriptures aside (let us not judge), what really counts is what we do with the gift that Jesus has given us. I am compelled to tell my story, one by one or to thousands, about where I came from to how Jesus changed me and made me joyful and fulfilled.. Like Lentz, I had tried everything the world had to offer, even as a christian, and only now I know the amazing peace and satisfaction that Jesus brings. ONLY Jesus brings. So, hats off to people on and off the platform who can be themselves and yet represent Jesus in a relevant and real way. That was half my problem as well, feeling like I couldn’t relate to anyone in church… I was so alone because of that. Anyway, to God be ALL the glory.
“All the crap of theology and Leviticus scriptures aside (let us not judge), what really counts is what we do with the gift that Jesus has given us.”
And how would you even know about that glorious gift if it were not revealed through His (“crap of theology”) Word?
@allaboutJesus, some aspects of Christian Theology and the Old Testament *do* offend the flesh. When I was a young Christian I could NOT see why knowledge of Law/ theology was so important, especially all the sacrificial rites.
When times get hard – as they will because death is part of life – you need to know WHY the sin sacrifices in the OT/ and Jesus’ death on the cross and resurrection is so important for you personally. Your faith has to built upon the Rock, Jesus Christ, not the sand of testimony. You learn about your Lord and Saviour through SCRIPTURE.
No one doubts you when you state that your life is changed for the better because of your relationship with Jesus. e.g. By God’s grace I’d met Christians who’d gone through certain difficult circumstances and by their example I was more prepared for personal crises later on. Personal experiences definitely strengthen our faith but they are not a substitute for biblical knowledge which is needed to grow in spiritual maturity.
Preachers like Lentz who focus on “a changed life from believing in Jesus” may help people if encouragement is what they personally need at that time. However Panadol is not enough pain-relief for surgery, neither is “don’t worry, God has a plan for your life ..” when you/ a relative are diagnosed with a potentially life-threatening condition.
That style of preaching also will do no good if a person actually needs correction and to be confronted with their sin/s. His refusal to address the “gay issue” is an example of Hill$ong’s people-pleasing tendency. Sometimes a person’s suffering is a punishment from God for their sins. e.g. King David’s suffering after hiding his affair with Bathsheba and causing her husband’s death to cover it up. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+32&version=KJV
Excellent comment.! The Church is not a show, is the body of Jesus. Jesus saved the Prostitute but did not tell her to continue being a prostitute and worship him, he clearly said: Let your old life. Please, lets avoid to make churches looking like entertainment companies. ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you make it a den of……”Matthew 21:13
Evidently, Carl Lentz’s ‘mission’ as you put it, is to love the ways of the world.
~Andy
Let us not care just say you are a Christian and keep feeding your flesh Pride self centered not Christ centered Its all just hip and Cool aid yo yo look at me and my swag.
well i wont even be bothered reading your ridiculous comments, you bunch of self righteous fools. I hope your heart is equally as perfect as you judge others’.
Typically you take a word or a phrase and twist it for your own good.. Thats all you have ?? Until you’re up there on a pulpit and having your own life put under the microscope. you might want to rethink this entire website.
“I hope your heart is equally as perfect as you judge others’.”
We take it that you think our heart is less perfect than yours…
@ AllAboutJesus, “you bunch of self righteous fools”….
Wow, that was sure spoken out of love….
Your true heart has been exposed.
Jim Styles
“Typically you take a word or a phrase and twist it for your own good.”
What, like Malachi 3:10, you mean?
I think it’s easy to get carried away in debate over varying opinions of a particular message or pastor’s style…it isn’t important for us all to agree that Carl Lentz is awesome, or not awesome…the important thing is the Spirit inside this guy sewing seeds for Christ. We have the tendency to criticize and critique revival preaching that often contradicts what we’re used to, but these dynamic ministers are making an awesome impact in bringing the lost to Christ.
It’s not about one pastor’s style and method-we miss the point if the sermon or the message only becomes ‘an event’…it’s the evangelism of Jesus Christ’s love for us and for all people. Lentz isn’t actually changing hearts, creating repentance of sin, or filling people with The Holy Spirit-it’s Christ using him. Jesus ministered out of the presence of God…the presence of God is in the message or methods of God’s anointed ones.
Carl Lentz is different and I feel in my spirit that he has spiritual gifts that really help many people see how ‘cool’ and ‘fresh’ the Gospel really is.
It’s ok if we all don’t love the act of ministry the same…we can however praise God for such an effective cultural tool of testimony.
Love you and God bless you all.
“We have the tendency to criticize and critique revival preaching that often contradicts what we’re used to, but these dynamic ministers are making an awesome impact in bringing the lost to Christ.”
Then maybe Carl Lentz needs to send someone else to save Justin Beiber. Looks like he can’t save that lost “sheep”.
“….I feel in my spirit..”
Personal feelings are not infallible. The bible is. Have you compared Lentz’s messages with what the bible says? e.g. his position on homosexuality. http://apprising.org/2014/06/04/nyc-hillsong-hipster-pastor-carl-lentz-hedging-on-homosexuality/
“….he has spiritual gifts that really help many people see how ‘cool’ and ‘fresh’ the Gospel really is.”
Is one of his spiritual gifts preaching the Word of God (like the apostle Paul commanded Timothy to do)? Everything else is minor in comparison.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
“Carl Lentz is different and I feel in my spirit that he has spiritual gifts that really help many people see how ‘cool’ and ‘fresh’ the Gospel really is.”
If Lentz is helping people see that, then he is preaching a false gospel, because the true gospel is neither “cool” nor “fresh”, and it will never be so – on the contrary, Jesus Christ is a stone that makes men stumble and a rock that makes men fall, and the message of the cross is an offence to the world, and foolishness to those who are perishing.
Lentz, like all the rest of today’s misguided mega-church mediocrities, wants to be popular and “relevant” – and so chooses to wilfully ignore the words of Jesus Himself, who warned “Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets”.
Of course, if you had actually read your Bible, you’d already know all that, wouldn’t you?
Carl Lenz while he reamins ‘cool’ and ‘fresh’ will soon be ageing. As with previous ‘cool’ pastors…his audience ages and he ages…it suddenly isn’t so cool for an older man to preach to a younger generation, even when he has cosmetic surgery and hairdyes. He will just be replaced with a younger version.
I can only hope that ‘fashion’ and ‘coolness’ will be replaced with the Biblical Word of God instead of worldly, self indulgent counterfeits.
GET WITH IT…stop writing blog posts that criticize somebody who’s too busy submitting to God’s impacting plan for his life to read this shit. you should be embarrassed to be associated with this crap @churchwater… you have an entire website to “watching” Hillsong? A movement that draws in 100k weekly to meet God? How are you so far gone that you’ve missed the point so badly?
Hi Richard – love does not rejoice in wrong-doing but rejoices in the truth. Clearly Hillsong and yourself think likewise.
If you love God more than you do man – start defending your God. Stop defending sinful men who are intent to make a name for themselves and send people to hell in the process.
If you want to talk about missing the point – at least what we do is backed by Christ’s gospel, love, Great Commission and Word. You however, are telling us to submit to something outside of scripture. So who is the one that has “missed the point so badly”?
People completely brainwashed by these movements either argue outside of scripture or by twisting the scriptures. Are you going to prove you have no love by twisting God’s Word to shut us up and label us in your ignorance “Pharisees”?
Oddly enough, too many godless people in Hillsong do just that. And where did they get these lies from? Where did they learn to twist scriptures like this?
You need to repent of your evil and stop promoting blasphemers who present a form of Godliness (#Jesus) but deny His power. Hillsong is a Word of Faith cult that has the origins of its teachings stemming from the occult. They’ve simply got better disguising and refining it over the years.
You have the internet. Do the research. We will gladly help you. But please do not bash us in your ignorance and vehemency on things you do not know.
No one. Can send anyone to hell. Everyone makes the decision for themselves.
@SCEBTF – you find a good answer to your comment here:
https://carm.org/do-people-send-themselves-to-hell-or-does-god-send-them-there
Does God send people to hell, or do people send themselves to hell? The question can be answered differently depending on what sense the concepts within the question are understood.
God sends people to hell
God is the Righteous King who executes judgment upon the lawbreaker. All who have not trusted in Christ to deliver them from judgment will be sent to hell by God. An analogy would be when a judge sends a person to prison. The guilty man does not send himself there in the sense of driving a car to the prison and walking in. Instead, it’s the judge who passes judgment and sends the person to prison. In this sense, God is the one who is sending people to hell because he is acting as the righteous judge. He is performing the action of sending them. So in this sense, we must acknowledge that God actually sends people to hell.
People send themselves to hell
When Christians say that God does not send people to hell but that sinners send themselves, they are ignoring the sense in which God is the judge and are putting the emphasis upon the sinner instead of God. They are emphasizing the rejection of Christ by unbelievers and in not believing they are sentencing themselves to eternal damnation. In this sense, they are sending themselves to hell. But this is a completely different sense from that of the preceding paragraph.
God is the Judge
It is biblically true that God sends people to hell. There are too many verses that show God’s active involvement in executing judgment upon people. Let’s take a look.
Matthew 25: 41, “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels.'”
2 Peter 2:4, “For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment.”
Revelation 14:10-11, “he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Conclusion
So, in one sense God sends people to hell, and in another sense people send themselves there. It all depends on the sense in which the action of sending is understood as it relates to God’s righteous judgment or as it relates to man’s rejection of God. The former is God’s direct action of sending, and the latter results in condemnation due to a person’s rejecting of Christ.
Well I completely agree with everything said here, so I guess I should have been more clear in my statement. I do believe that GOD sends people to hell due to a person’s rejection of Christ. I guess what I should have said is that other people can not send people to hell, just as I cannot make you sin. I really appreciate the depth of your reply, and I am thankful that you actually took the time to write it. Thanks!
Richard,
What would you say to the hundreds of people who have been ostracised, excommunicated or bullied at Hillsong? Take a look at the testimonies page and see how “impacting” their “god’s” plan actually is. Why are you defending such blatant abuse of power and false teaching? Do you stand for God and his Word, or these fallible celebrity pastors who are preaching heresies? We have heard this rhetoric countless times. Numbers are meaningless. Why don’t you address the real issues that have been raised on this site?
Colin,
There is a lot of information available on this site and Fighting for the Faith. I suggest starting with the following video which specifically addresses the problem with Carl’s celebrity image, then listening to some critiques of Brian Houston’s messages. This would be far more helpful than me listing out the issues here, because you will be able to see the problems for yourself. I would like to continue this dialogue and hear your thoughts on the video and sermon critiques.
http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/berean-advisory-brian-houston.html
There is nothing wrong with being prominent. The problem arises when people consider prominence as more important than how well someone handles God’s word. Your argument is very typical of people defending these false teachers, but it’s a poor argument that you could use to justify any kind of false teaching. How do you reconcile this with passages such as Romans 16:17, 1 Timothy 6:20-21 and 2 Timothy 4:3? The Bible clearly says to avoid false teachers. Why are you being disobedient to God and supporting them?
I don’t expect every pastor to be perfect. What I do expect is for them to handle the Word correctly and preach the gospel. What Brian Houston and his ilk preach is another Jesus and another gospel. So to answer your question, yes, it can invalidate the impact they’ve made since they are producing false converts. I won’t say everyone is a false convert, but there would be many.
No pastor is perfect, but a good pastor will realise when they are wrong and repent. Brian Houston is still preaching the same word of faith heresies and false prosperity gospel he’s been peddling for decades.
“You should be embarrassed to be associated with this cr*p @churchwater”
Actually, C Richard, it’s you who should be embarrassed to be associated with a cult like hillsong, and all its pathetic empty-headed wannabes whose greatest ambition in life is to emulate Brian Houston.
“[…] stop writing blog posts that criticize somebody who’s too busy submitting to God’s impacting plan for his life […]”
Firstly C, it’s not God’s plan at all – it’s his own vain imaginings, which means that every single thing he is doing will prove to be wood, hay, and stubble when the time comes for it to be tested – it will be consumed by fire, and not so much as a skerrick will remain.
Secondly, it’s not “impacting”, because impact is a noun, not an adjective (it looks like you have the requisite degree of intelligence to be a hillsong “pastor” yourself, C).
“A movement that draws in 100k weekly to meet God?”
Terribly sorry C, but you’re wrong again: you’ve mispelt “god” – the “god” you are talking about is the god of this world (A.K.A. satan), and the first letter should therefore be in lower case.
“How are you so far gone that you’ve missed the point so badly?”
I wanted to reply to this gem, I really did, but I’m laughing so hard that it’s just not going to be possible. Maybe I will later; but in the meantime, you remember to keep on being bright, relevant, contemporary, hip, with-it, and whatever else is needful in order to impress the shallow show-ponies you count as your spiritual masters. Above all, don’t forget to keep giving them your money – lots and lots and lots of money.
“Hey man I don’t attend Hillsong and have never given money to their movement.”
Well for a disinterested bystander you sure have a lot to say in defence of those pathetic morons, don’t you Colin?
“Good to know your case against hillsong relies largely on ad hominem – the substance of any good argument.”
If you don’t like ad hominems, don’t come around here making yourself such a huge target by spruiking fraudulent ministries, all the while putting your narrow-mindedness, twisted attitudes, critical spirit, deficient intellect and assinine comments on public display.
“Have you checked out Matthew 7 any time recently?”
LOL: a hillsong apologist asking a Christian about the extent of their Biblical knowledge. Do you know what irony is, Colin?
“I just keep hearing your arguments and am trying to figure out what your purpose is…”
Yeah, right – because I’m accountable to you for what I say, and why. You aren’t a “pastor” or a “leader” by any chance, are you Colin?
“I keep reading your comments and am amazed at how incredibly judgmental, off-putting and misguided your remarks are.”
Oh, did you notice that then? I actually toned my reply down a bit just for you – I guess that even though you “don’t attend hillsong”, you are just as thin-skinned and weak-kneed as all those addle-brained dupes who do (I’m sure that’s purely coinincidental, though).
“But I guess if you know Carl Lentz personally […]”
I wouldn’t waste my time knowing Lentz personally; he’s a grand-standing buffoon who wouldn’t know God if he tripped over Him (you’d probably get on really well with him, Colin).
“[…] and followed the biblical model of resolution then this website is a great way to publicize your grievances.”
Sorry Colin, your ignorance is on public display again. We don’t need a “Biblical model of resolution” regarding impostors from hillsong; we simply need to understand that they are puffed-up frauds preaching a false gospel for personal gain, on which basis we can treat them with the contempt that they deserve (or, alternatively, ignore them completely if we have more pressing things to do).
Colin,
It’s been shown clearly to you that these people are false teachers, preaching another gospel and another Jesus. You know what the Bible says about this. Why are you defending heretics instead of being obedient to God? Don’t you realise what a false gospel does? It produces false converts; people who are not saved. Are you really defending this?
Again, you have made arguments typical of people defending these frauds. You excuse their false teachings because they love their community or sacrifice a lot. It’s irrelevant. I’m more concerned about the salvation of their false converts than whether they feel loved by their pastor. To me it looks like you just don’t know your Bible. If you did, then you would easily identify a fraudulent gospel.
If you want to make a good argument then tell me what makes their gospel right and why the video and critiques I sent you are wrong. Address the actual allegations. Don’t respond with irrelevant claims about how great you think they are, or how they have so many followers or what a good job they do at loving people. It means nothing.
“Don’t us Christians have a hard enough time getting people in the doors without sites like this looking to pull the legs out from a bible- believing church?”
colin pomory,
Hillsong is not a Bible-believing church.
1. Explain to us your basis / evidence for that conclusion.
2. Can you point us to any videos where they focus on repentance from sin?
3. What church background are you from?
“Hey bro, I’ll go to bat for ANY leader who is misrepresented and cast as a fraud while they’re busy doing night [sic] but loving their community.”
Well Colin, I’ll take a bat to any fraud who is misrepresented and cast as a leader while they’re busy doing naught but loving their own lives.
“Is the way you’re engaging me/ others on this site who disagree really the way God would promote?”
Once again we see your ignorance, and in particular your ignorance of Scripture (what a surprise, eh?). Why don’t you do something for your own edification: go and find out how Jesus dealt with the money-changers in the temple (here’s a hint for you, Colin: He did *not* tell them “You need more money”).
‘It’s interesting you’re worried so much about a “false prophet” […]’
Yeah, I’m so worried about a false prophet- really, really worried, because God doesn’t see how Carl Lentz rages against the truth and how he blasphemes the Most High, and because God doesn’t have him on a leash. (You see Colin, unlike the “god” you serve, my God is actually in total control).
“[…] (a guy who is KNOWN for how much he sacrifices for the people he serves) […]”.
Self-effort and vain religion that count for absolutely nothing in the eyes of God. Dead works from one who is himself spiritually dead – filthy rags; wood, hay, and stubble. (You really should read your Bible, Colin – it would be quite the eye-opener for you).
“[…] while your objective seems really to be to demean and marginalize those who disagree with you.”
Which is not at all something that abusive and controlling mega-cults such as hillsong would do, is it Colin? (It looks as though you might be suffering from a touch of that nasty pot-kettle syndrome; you really should get that professionally checked without delay).
(As an aside, I would note that hillsong apologists of your ilk actually demean and marginalise themselves, so if you want to identify the real problem here, you need look no further than the nearest mirror).
“Don’t us Christians have a hard enough time getting people in the doors without sites like this looking to pull the legs out from a bible- believing church?”
Ooh, ooh, I know – you and I should do a duet: let’s hold hands and sing “Kumbaya”!
‘Good to know you also pick and choose which parts of the bible you honor, “do you know what honor is?”’
Selective application of the Scriptures, Colin? It appears that you really haven’t been paying attention in “church”: such sleights of hand are the stock in trade of those slick snake oil salesman who promote themselves as “God’s anointed”, and who shamelessly exploit empty-heads such as yourself on the basis of their eisegetical fairy tales. As to honour, I wonder if you know that there is no honour among thieves (for homework, you can do some research on Yonggi Cho and Kong Hee, and report back here on your findings regarding their respective takes on that particular subject).
Anyway Colin, I’ve dealt with all sorts of people in my life, and I’d have to say that there is nothing funnier than to watch an offended pentecostal in full flight. They are like a steam train trying to get up a steep incline when the rails are wet: wheels spinning furiously, clouds of smoke and steam, and so much huffing and puffing and huffing and puffing – but not so much as a hint of forward progress. So keep right on commenting here, because we know what the Bible says: “A merry heart doeth good like a medicine” – and you are playing your part most ably, because although you have nothing of substance to contribute, you are certainly good for a laugh.
“Have you checked out Matthew 7 any time recently?”
@ Colin, no, the question is HAS COLIN checked out Matthew 7 any time recently?
matthew chapter 7….
Matthew 7:1 — “Judge not, that ye be not judged.”
…What’s this? There’s more? Jesus wasn’t finished? Let’s keep reading…. Hmm…
Matthew 7:15-16 — “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?”
Whaddayaknow. All in the same chapter. Stopping up top is kinda like leaving before the end of a movie isn’t it….
I know this is months ago but I need to say, we as Christian’s are called TO judge Christian’s when they are in the wrong. We have that right. What we do not have is the right to judge non believers. Now I haven’t read this whole conversation, or even half of your guys comments so I’m not here to say who here is right or wrong. Just saw your comment and thought I’d put this out there. Peace, love Jesus!
in this link, carl lentz follows in his boss brian houston’s footsteps, pushing the heretical Word of Faith doctrine of “tithing”:
“AS CHRISTIANS, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO TITHE.”
…
“AS A PREACHER OF GOD’S WORD, YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY OF SHARING THAT TRUTH WITH PEOPLE.”
http://therocketcompany.com/blog/2014/02/six-ways-hillsong-church-new-york-creates-a-culture-of-generous-giving/
And, just like that, Colin Pomory was gone.
We know from the Bible that we should be prepared to contend for the faith, but it seems that Colin’s well of inspiration has gone and dried up on him. That’s the usual outcome when one lionises marshmallow ministers who preach a gospel of gormlessness.
“Hillsong is a Word of Faith cult that has the origins of its teachings stemming from the occult.” You forgot to make up about the Tarot cards, Ouija boards, wearing red undies on Tuesday, that a Feng Shui expert designed the buildings, and the resemblance of the Houstons to the Munsters and the Addams Family. No doubt that will all be in future fictional posts though.
Hillsong’s origins are the same as all other Christian churches. And the fundamental beliefs are the same. From one of the text books used at Hillsong College:
“This point needs to be fully and clearly grasped: salvation is only and always through the work of Christ, only and always because ‘God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son’ (John 3:16 ). From Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden to those in the last human generation on earth at the time of Christ’s glorious return, there is no basis for salvation other than Christ’s death and rising. Here the theological realities we have expounded earlier concerning God’s eternal nature as the Holy One, and concerning human sin in both its universality and its gravity, imply that God cannot ever simply ‘overlook’ our sin, or treat it as though it never happened. All sin carries implications; ‘the wages of sin is death’ (Rom 6:23), expressed both in present physical termination and eternal separation from God thereafter. Sin always brings judgement. The only grounds for sin being pardoned lie accordingly … in God’s passing judgement on it in such a way that, in his amazing grace, he takes the judgement upon himself for us. God does that at the cross. Thus for the believers in the OT period, no less than for the believers in the NT period and in all ages of grace since then, salvation is by the work of Christ alone. Hence our Lord’s pronouncements of pardon during his earthly ministry, ‘your sins are forgiven’ (Mark 2:5 etc), were only possible in the anticipation of, and on the basis of, his acceptance, affirmed at his baptism, of his awful vocation to be the ‘suffering servant’ who would ‘bear the sin of many’ (Matt 3:13-17; Isa 53:12). Salvation is only through the work of Christ”.
Know the Truth, Bruce Milne. p 206-207
“And the fundamental beliefs [of hillsong] are the same [as all other Christian churches].”
Which would be why Brian Houston made the bald assertion that Christians and Muslims serve the same God, because that’s a “fundamental belief” of “all Christian chuches”, is that right?
You should be aware, newtaste, that there are two types of ignorance: there is plain old ignorance, which is the common variety, and then there is the type that you display: *wilful* ignorance – it’s not that you can’t see the truth, it’s simply that you have decided, by an act of your will, to turn a blind eye to facts that are clearly apparent to anyone who will look.
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what kind of chuch is this? what gets me is so many shallow so called “celebs” fall for this kind of rubbish… just pick up your bible read it pray and build your own relationship with god if you’re that way inclined. you really don’t need a liar to preach rubbish to you. how do people fall for this rubbish gay church hahahaahh ha – is the devils work!!!
“There’s a stereotype,” Lentz says. “A lot of people think of Christians as out of touch. But I say the gospel shouldn’t make you weird. We’re not like those people standing outside the clubs with the posters and the bullhorns. God is bigger than that.
Whoever said that the Gospel makes Christians weird? Maybe people who don’t truly believe? I would like to say that God disagrees with Carl Lentz. I say this because God called us to be Holy. Jesus came to bring a sword to divide, not conform. If the world views us as normal people, then you should probably renew your mind in Scripture and pray. And Jesus was like those people that preach on the curbs. But Jesus also proved Himself true to people and that led to multiple followers. The only thing Carl proves to people is that he can put on a wonderful light show with good music. It’s terrible to see that his earnings from his congregation gave him a wonderful Escalade and expensive exquipment for music. Last I checked Jesus despised the rich, but Carl encourages it? Build up riches in the Kingdom of Heaven. Not desires and treasure on this world.
“Jesus was doing the same thing, he was among the prostitutes…. I’m not crazy. I’m not weird. I don’t want to hide my identity as a pastor. I pray those days are over.”
You are right, He did hang out with sinners, but he didn’t become like them.
Carl Lentz preaches a Gospel message that doesn’t has to change us. He preaches a message that we don’t have to change who we are. False, God commands we deny ourselves.
U were amazing today at faith family church