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Carl Lentz, cult, cult-like, fascism, Hillsong, Hillsong Church, Hillsong United, Lentz, united, workshop
The Cult-Like Nature Of Hillsong
The Apostle Paul said to young Timothy,
“This charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith…” 1 Timothy 1:18-19
In 2008, Carl Lentz (who used to be a senior pastor of Wave Church), went to a “Hillsong United Conference” and attended one of it’s workshops. He decided to publicly teach on what he received from Hillsong. It is important to note that ‘Hillsong United’ is the infamous Hillsong band. So the source of this dangerous teaching is from the musicians themselves, deceived by the cult-like teachings of Brian Houston. This article will allow readers to take a glimpse into the dangerous cult-like teachings Carl Lentz received from the Hillsong workshop.
What is disturbing in Lentz’ notes is the false teaching he was indoctrinated with. For example, Hillsong’s “… size and reach is a result of a healthy church focused on God”. This is a lie. And this is a lie that has been repeated often enough which many Christians now believe. The size of a church does not determine it is a healthy church. Jesus says not to make judgments on mere appearance but to make a righteous judgment. The best way to judge if a church is healthy is by examining how they handle the Word of God.
When reading the below notes from Carl Lentz, ask yourself these questions:
1. Do you think it is biblical for pastors to teach members to “serve the passion of your house and the vision of your senior pastor”?
2. Where did this teaching on ‘vision’ come from?
3. Are church members called to be “uncomplicated and unopinionated” armour bearers while serving their pastors?
4. Are pastors kings?
5. Is this taught in the bible?
For further information on where this un-Christian doctrine stems from, please read the following:
Hillsong, Rick Warren And Fascism
Keep this information in mind as you read Carl Lentz notes from the 2008 Hillsong United Conference:
Hillsong United Conference: Carl Lentz
Carl Lentz is the Senior Associate Pastor at Wave Church in Virginia Beach, VA and is responsible for the young adults and youth. He presented four key ideas that he took away from his time preparing under Hillsong in Workshop #1 titled “It’s Not Just An Australian Thing”:
- Just because Hillsong has a big church and lots of people doesn’t mean it started that way
- It also doesn’t mean you can’t do something powerful in your ministry
- Their size and reach is a result of a healthy church focused on God
- It is just as spiritual to take a youth ministry to play football as to a worship service
- The key is being authenticate in your dealing with them
- Four ideas to consider based on his experience with Hillsong
- Idea #1 – your relationship with your senior pastor is going to dictate the fruit of your ministry
- you need to serve the passion of your house and the vision of your senior pastor
- if you are serving a vision you are not connected to or a senior pastor you do not agree with, you will see minimal fruit
- if you are not fully on board, you should leave – that is the most loyal thing you can do as they need your support 100%
- be an armor bearer, where you simply serve the needs of the king (it is uncomplicated and unopinionated)
- however you are to your leader today, you will reap as fruit
- self-examination: if you had 1000 of you, would you be a happy leader? If not, change your attitude and habits
- Idea #2 – this has to be a calling, not a ministry career
- they don’t try to hire guns, they raise people that are called
- looking to the future is great, but if you focus too much on the future you will fall
- stop looking at the 20 and wishing it was 200, instead look at the 20 and ask God what you should do with the 20
- God loves the people you lead way too much to let you ignore them
- the average lifespan of a youth pastor today is 5 months
- why would a youth minister ever make a long-term decision if they won’t be around?
- you need to be happy with where you are today and put everything into it as if you will be there for a long time, otherwise you don’t have a calling you have a career
- Idea #3 – you have to embody what you believe as much as humanly possible
- there is a lot talking in churches
- it doesn’t matter if you are the worst preacher or have the worst music but you live what you preach before and after, you will bear fruit
- if you are preaching to bring your friends but aren’t bring some yourself, then others won’t either
- frequent the same places to get to know people and invite them
- Idea #4 – make sure people leave encouraged
- the gospel is simple, don’t make it complicated
- make sure people leave your church with their hands and hearts lifted
- the heaviness of being a young Christian can be tough, causing youth to go in the opposite direction when they fall
Source: James Higginbotham, Hillsong United Conference: Carl Lentz, http://www.volunteercentered.com/2008/08/29/hillsong-united-conference-carl-lentz/, 29/08/2008. (Accessed 02/04/2013.)
EDIT: Removed information on 30/12/2013.
Hillsong Church Watch 
This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve read.
This is a joke, right?
Somehow you collate a definition of the meaning of the word ‘sirens’, a quote from a Scientologist on what cultishness might mean, a preposterous claim of fascism in the Church and a fascetious attempt, with not a shred of evidence, nor any explanation, at linking Hillsong and Carl Lentz.
Disconnected, illogical thoughts adding up to nothing.
I’m sorry, but any rational person might consign this trash to the bin of madness.
“This is a joke, right?”
Your response is a joke right?
Do you want to misrepresent anything else we have said in your lame effort dismiss the substance of how Hillsong operates?
“Disconnected, illogical thoughts adding up to nothing.”
You are talking about Brian Houston’s sermons right? Or typical Hillsong worship music?
No, no! I was discussing your post. You really need to work harder at your structure and content.
It is a series of disconnected thoughts and quotes. I don’t know how anyone could work out what you are saying.
Nothing more and nothing less.
I wasn’t joking, no.
I was just passing on some advice to help you improve the clarity of your critiques.
“I don’t know how anyone could work out what you are saying.”
You really need to pray for discernment if you can’t understand the post.
How could you give any sound advice to C3CW if you cannot so much as understand something so simple.
And i suppose you’re such a rational person , yet you cannot understand the post!
I suggest it’s back to the 101’s for you mate!
You seem to have a money fixation in your pseudonym.
But you are quite wrong on your defence of the post. It is, indeed, disjointed and contains several unrelated suppositions which the reader has to somehow put together.
That is not good writing, and it is certainly poor journalism.
Have you actually read the article? If so, perhaps you can explain to everyone what the writer is actually claiming.
Is s/he saying that Hillsong is fascist? Or that Carl Lentz is a fascist?
Are they saying that Chris Roseborough is correct to label Rick Warren a fascist on the basis of his very contrived Powerpoint talk, which is so full of holes it could be used as a dragnet by a super trawler. If atone actually takes seriously what Roseborough says in his preposterous conspiracy theory they need serious help.
And I like Chris Roseborough, so don’t get me wrong. I don’t agree with everything he says, or how he goes about it, but I think he has a genuine heart for the Church, is occasionally right in his criticism of excessive ministries and poor doctrine, is a sound believer, with mostly sound doctrine. But this theory on fascism in the Church is preposterous and he should ditch it to save any credibility he has left.
And you should leave it alone too. It is flawed and, apart from anything else, defamatory.
And you defend the post writer’s use of the doctrine of a Scientologist! Enough said there!
And, finally, for this comment, what the dickens has the definition of sirens to do with anything at all, apart form the fact that posts writer came across it in a dictionary somewhere and decided it would be a great word to shoe into a post against Hillsong sometime?
If you’re going to use definitions, at least explain why, and don’t just leave it hanging out there in the wind like some creaking pub sign advertising a long closed inn.
So, no, I don’t need to pray for discernment. I have it already. Which is why I am pointing out to the post worker that their piece is vague, unconnected and pointless.
But to explain a little further, your post included a formula for assessing cults issues by a Scientologist.
This was somehow ‘linked’ to a theory on fascism, a talk by Carl Lentz, and a definition of ‘sirens’.
There were no links given between them, nor any commentary as to why you’d reached whatever conclusion you were coming to. It’s a bit wink-wink, nudge-nudge, if you know what I mean, guv’nor.
Admittedly, I had a little fun with you, but I wasn’t really joking, because you are clearly taking yourself seriously with this post. But…
What disturbs me, really disturbs me, is your growing excursion into the idea that Hillsong is a fascist organisation.
I think you need to curb your enthusiasm for demonising churches and ministers.
Look, I’m all for constructive criticism, so if you think there is some doctrine or issue which needs to be addressed, and you haven’t already covered it a thousand times over, then put your case and let the commentary discuss it in an open and fair way.
But if you are going to pursue this Godwin’s law of an approach to Christians and ministries you’ll be so far over the top you’ll end up in orbit
Brian Houston is just an average Christian. He is not a cult leader. He believes the fundamental doctrines all churches do. I think you are fighting the wrong enemy. It’s just because Hillsong is successful you have a problem with. That’s why you are out to find fault. Pyramids or triangles are not evil in themselves. You are the evil ones.
@Jesusbro – “You are the evil ones…” does that mean all of us, or just those listed in the post above your posts?
To say the we are all evil just because we have challenged the blatantly false teachings and cult like behaviour of Hillsong et al, displays a certain kind of ignorance that is best kept at home Jesuzbro…
Obviously, you need to do a lot of homework on these man made organisations if you are to come online and make any comments at all… unless of course, you are simply impressed by the bright lights, large buildings and $60 million plus dollars a year income that Hillsong leaders enjoy?
Just what is it that is ‘orthodox’ about Brian Houston’s teachings, and how moral and accountable are his money gathering practices?
Care to enlighten us poor, deceived and ‘evil’ people “Jesuzbro”?
“Brian Houston is just an average Christian.”
Actually, Brian “You Need More Money” Houston is:
(a) Well below average by any measure one would care to employ.
(b) Not a Christian by any stretch of the imagination (his bizarre claims include a statement that the deity he worships is in fact a Middle Eastern moon god).
I was looking for something about Carl and I found this article. I’m so grateful to you for posting this. Eventhough you post it as a warning of something you think is wrong… haha thanks!! once again I am blessed by the ministry of Hillsong and Carl Lentz. 😀
“[…] I am blessed by the ministry of Hillsong and Carl Lentz.”
Good for you; I’m sure that there were some who considered themselves blessed by the ministry of Judas, and who were quite disappointed when he topped himself. Then there were those who found their blessings in the ministry of Jim Jones, and who showed their total commitment by ending their lives along with him in the Guyanese jungle.
As for me and my household, we are blessed by the ministry of the Holy Spirit, just as God intended it should be. You should try that some time; you would no doubt find walking in the truth to be most refreshing change, and it would serve to give you a yardstick against which you could critically evaluate the worthless false teachers to whom you are currently in thrall.
Whoever posted this, I pray that God blesses you. Not because I agree with you, but because I completely disagree with you. For you to have taken this much time out of your day to come up with all of these reasons why this is a “cult” or whatever you believe, must mean that you aren’t at peace with something yourself. As Christians, we are called to worship GOD, to serve GOD, and to seek GOD in everything we do. Carl Lentz has stated this very clearly in his sermons. God has used him as a vessel to speak the gospel in an incredible way. If you have seen his sermons, you would know that he doesn’t take the credit for himself and he doesn’t encourage people to praise him or their pastors. Yes, he encourages them to give respect to their pastors for the time they put into using God’s gifts to pour into his people, but more than that he encourages them to follow GOD and to seek GOD’S face in everything they do. Carl Lentz is a genuine, selfless man of God and he was chosen by God for a divine purpose. Sometimes we become so wrapped up in the “church” and following specific guidelines that we become bitter towards other Christians, this page being a good example. But God is so loving and forgiving. He doesn’t take favor over anyone. If there is a man dripping in gold and another man drenched in filth, he isn’t going to prefer the gold-covered man. God loves and accepts us for who we are. Everyone is a sinner. We were born into sin and it’s inevitable. But that’s why there is GRACE.Jesus Christ died for our sins so that we may have ETERNAL life and FREEDOM. Freedom that doesn’t keep us from living out our purpose, but it guides us even more to our God-given destiny. I pray that God opens up your eyes and allows you to see this. God bless you.
Im Pastor Tim I only have one question are all of those who are on here speaking their own views praying for the Pastors around the world? They need our PRAYERS not our foul words spokin out of hate ….No I choose to believe JESUS came in the flesh died a horrible death on an old rugged cross and came back to life on the third day and is alive and sitting on the right hand of FATHER GOD ……I love the sinner and PRAY for their SALVATION so plz stop the back biting and go into your secret place I hope you have one and PRAY for these PASTORS like we are called to do and I PRAY for all of you I PRAY JESUS opens the eyes of your hearts BLESSINGS …Remember we are speaking LIFE or DEATH into situations the outcome depends on our own decisions ………
Amen to you Pastor Tim .
Spoken like a true man of God and faithful one.
@ Tim,
“No I choose to believe JESUS came in the flesh died a horrible death on an old rugged cross and came back to life on the third day and is alive and sitting on the right hand of FATHER GOD”
Sounds like an insinuation that there are people regularly posting here do not believe this, though I would be surprised if that were the case.
Jim Styles
“Remember we are speaking LIFE or DEATH into situations the outcome depends on our own decisions…”
Sorry Pastor Tim – I don’t believe in ‘speaking life’ into any situation, as such beliefs are part of the very point that this blogsite exists. Such “confessions” are based on Word of Faith/Hyper Faith leanings, and as such, come from occult roots, which are in no way ‘Christian’.
Nowhere in the New Testament do we see Jesus, the apostles, or later on, beleivers who joined the Church, go about “confessing” large reams of scripture, neither do we see them in the market place, or the prayer meeting “speaking life” into anything, or anyone.
I don’t want to be ‘legal’ with you, or be seen to be nitpicking you on a couple of points, but the kind of ‘solutions’ you are proposing (ie: no negative ‘confessions, speak positive things – speak life), are part of the problem, and are therefore no solution.
Hyper Faith teaching under Hagin and Copeland et al, infiltrated the church decades ago and has left a wake of carnage behind it that has ruined many lives. I’m afraid that the fruit that would vindicate its tenets is simply not there.
Of course you may choose to believe that I and others here on the blog are in “unbelief”, but when Copeland et al teach that, what they are really saying is that “you don’t believe us” – and they would be right – I don’t…
I believe the basic fundamentals of the faith, but I don’t believe in Hyper Faith heresies. Here’s a link that explains some of that teaching in detail:
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/posit.htm
What Ps Tim says is in agreement with the Word of God.
Proverbs 18
21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue, And those who love it will eat its fruit.
Matthew 12
34 “Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
35 “A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.
36 “But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
37 “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
2 Corinthians 2
15 For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing.
16 To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life. And who is sufficient for these things?
James 3
3 Indeed, we put bits in horses’ mouths that they may obey us, and we turn their whole body.
4 Look also at ships: although they are so large and are driven by fierce winds, they are turned by a very small rudder wherever the pilot desires.
5 Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things. See how great a forest a little fire kindles!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell.
7 For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and creature of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by mankind.
8 But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so.
11 Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening?
One little rumour can change many people’s lives forever.
Keep verses in context Gordy.
1. Proverbs 18:21: surrounding verses show it in regard to verbal communication styles affecting relationships positively or negatively, NOT “words have power so don’t speak negative words” that other religions subscribe to also. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+18%3A17-24&version=KJV
2. Matthew 12:34-37: is speaking the truth “negative words” and an evidence of bad fruit? Do you believe the apostle Paul do the wrong thing when he confronted the apostle Peter in Galatians chapter 2?
3. 2 Corinthians 2:15-16 refers to Christians versus unsaved people, NOT different interpretations of Christianity e.g. Charismatic Christians versus non-Charismatic.
4. James chapter 3:1-12:
* why did you leave out the verse 1 and 12? Did that hint too much at how leaders in the church are expected to be *good* teachers OR ELSE?
* watching that our words are chosen carefully, kindly, and pleasing to God does NOT mean that Christians are never to speak what can be labelled as “negative words”.
Would you want your doctor to only tell you positive results on medical tests or would you want to know the true situation? If you are at all logical you would choose the latter option, no matter how upsetting it may be to you personally. Why then do you only approve of Christians telling each other “nice things”? Isn’t your spiritual health all-important? Is it loving to withhold the truth from your brother/sister in Christ?
Thinker, “Keep verses in context Gordy.”
Of course they were in context, and self-explanatory. How could they not be in context unless I had commented on them with some contrary teaching, which I did not? They are self-contained and easily understood.
If you are saying our words are of no consequence then you are completely rearranging the context of what I presented, which clearly teaches on the significance of words. And there is far more on it in scripture, so the context is throughout the bible, Old and New Testaments.
You will indeed be judged for every idle word. Death and life are very much in the power of your tongue, because you choose what you will say to whom and when.
So who is going to bridle your tongue but you.
You can attempt to convince people that their words are of no consequence, but the Word of God says differently.
Stop playing word games. The only person who could possibly read what I said and conclude that I was saying “words are of no consequence…” is you.
Words that are potentially unpleasant to the listener but TRUE and NEED to be heard by the listener are not idle words, no matter how much you wish that to be otherwise. It seems that you only want truth told if it sounds positive and loving.
Half-truths are Half-lies.
Sorry, thinker, then we are in basic agreement. It Thought you were siding with Austin who said, “I don’t believe in ‘speaking life’ into any situation”, and claimed Jesus and his disciples didn’t speak life into anything or anyone, which is refuted by scripture.
Mark 11:20-24
Now in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots. And Peter, remembering, said to Him, “ Rabbi, look! The fig tree which You cursed has withered away.” So Jesus answered and said to them, “ Have faith in God. For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea, ’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them.”
Matthew 8:5-10
Now when Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, pleading with Him, saying, “Lord, my servant is lying at home paralyzed, dreadfully tormented.” And Jesus said to him, “I will come and heal him.” The centurion answered and said, “ Lord, I am not worthy that You should come under my roof. But only speak a word, and my servant will be healed. For I also am a man under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and to my servant, ‘Do this, ’and he does it.” When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, “ Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!”
So the centurion is commended because he understands that Jesus needs only to speak the word and his servant will be healed.
As Jesus said, “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
If a Roman centurion gets it…
There’s a big difference between believing *God* can bring life into a situation compared to believing *we* can speak life into a situation through the power of our words “in Jesus’s name”. Faith in Christ, not faith in “our faith”.
The Roman soldier demonstrated incredible faith in *Jesus* via asking Jesus to heal his servant. It wasn’t his words that caused the miracle. He had faith the Jews should have had too!
So you can’t speak to the mountain? Death and life is not in the power of your tongue? You will not receive when you ask? Prophecy is useless on your lips? You will not eat the fruit of your lips? You will not do the things Jesus did, or greater things? Your confession of faith meant nothing? You can do nothing in the name of Jesus? The word of the Spirit is made dumb on your lips? God’s words are suddenly powerless?
You are right that we are supposed to pray for Christian leaders. You are incorrect to assume that all negative words are “words of hate”. if you do that you are condemning passages of the bible that criticize false teachers as well.
If the apostle Paul’s letter was published to the Galatians today…. http://sacredsandwich.com/archives/2781
@ “pastor” Hiers Sr,
“[Pastors around the world] need our PRAYERS not our foul words spokin [sic] out of hate […]”
So mate, you’re a pastor? That’s very, very impressive; I bet you own a Bible, do you? Perhaps you’ve even read it – if so, you might be able to answer this question:
How was it that Jesus, knowing that Peter was to be sifted as wheat, prayed for him, but to the fraud and thief Judas – his betrayer – he simply said “What you are about to do, do quickly”?
I trust that since you are a minister of the Gospel, you won’t find the above overly difficult to explain, and I await your response with great interest.
Well said thinker. Couldn’t agree more. Would you mind if I posted what you wrote on my Facebook page?
Sure!
Thank you.
Gordy,
“Of course, thinker, it is God’s will which is being done, but he uses His Church as one of the vehicles for His will to be accomplished.”
Agree with that statement somewhat. Problem is that some Christians confuse their *wants* with God’s will. Christians are still sinners. WOF teachings provide for that via using verses out-of-context.
e.g. in introduction (letter to Gaius) John 1:2 “2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth”. Some claim that means God therefore wants everyone to have good health. If that is true why isn’t every single Christian on earth healthy?
“He left the earth for the right hand of the Father, so that he could send His Spirit to be with us, in us and upon us to do His will, an be empowered to be witnesses of Christ.”
Again, that sounds good at first glance. What do WOFers claim to be God’s will? Do they preach the whole Gospel (Christ crucified for our sins, our need to repent of our sins, turn (metanoia) to Jesus Christ, and have faith in Him as our Lord and Saviour)? Or do they speak of what WE can do, WE can say, WE can claim “in Jesus’ name” if we have enough faith?
If people watch Hill$ong tv shows, will they hear about what *Jesus* did for us or what *we* can do for Jesus? Will they see sermons like the one below or messages about “life change” and personal testimonies? Will the message be about one particular passage in detail to inform the listener or will it be a pep talk with isolated verses to make the speech sound “Christian” to the undiscerning?
CW – I must ask, as a matterof interest – what do you mean by ‘conspiracy theories’?
Can you give a simple definition of that, just to be clear?
Discermnent sites like this attract the highly speculative. For example, ‘satanic’ hand signs aka Andrew Mackinnon, finding hidden meaning in news stories – you name it, these whackos are out there, just waiting to prove some bizarre conspiracy or other. William Tapley style, a classic example seen here:
From the looks of this video, this william tapley guy has totally lost it.
As Jesus left the Earth he prompted us as humans and disciples to continue to spread the good news as he did to everyone we know. If you are going to post this on the internet to voice your opinion, I hope you are also at least spreading what you believe to be true to other people. Wrong or right, you will be put in your place by the judgment of God. as Proverbs 19:5 says “A false witness will not go unpunished, and a liar will be destroyed.” So if you believe so much that both pastor Brian and pastor Carl are “cult like teachers” then i advise you to get off the internet and spread what you believe to be true as the WORD OF GOD says to. That is unless you are to afraid of the punishments that come to a false witness. As Pastor Carl Lentz has said before, the enemy we need to worry about is not the devil, he is defeated. Its the ignorant religious people that will pull down his church.
Alex – interesting turn of phrase you used, ‘his church’, did you mean Carl Lentz’ church? Shouldn’t it be His church? Every jot and tittle counts.
And unlike Brian Houston and Carl Lentz who obviously take great advantage of the internet to continue to spread a false gospel, there are many here who do spread the good news about what Jesus Christ has done to reconcile sinners to God (when NOT on the internet).
“Proverbs 19:5 says “A FALSE WITNESS will not go unpunished, and a LIAR will be destroyed.”
@Alex, however when those here are telling the TRUTH about what is going on, that means you just MISAPPLIED Scripture. Did you learn that from Ps Brian or Ps Carl?
“then i advise you to get off the internet”
Alex, and i advise you to stop MISAPPLYING Scripture.
“If you are going to post this on the internet to voice your opinion […]”.
Nice try, Alex. That Brian Houston and Carl Lentz are unrepentant heretics is a *FACT* that has been established by the words that they themselves have spoken. Obviously you haven’t been paying attention, or perhaps you just prefer to ignore inconvenient truths.
“Wrong or right, you will be put in your place by the judgment of God.”
Wrong again, Alex. Those who put their trust in Christ will be rewarded according to their faithfulness and obedience. Judgement is for those who remain impenitent – that is, for people like Brian Houston and Carl Lentz (actually, especially for such as those two: boastful and arrogant impostors who impugn God’s character, slander His name, trample on the cross, and make merchandise of the Gospel).
“A false witness will not go unpunished, and a liar will be destroyed.”
Quite so. That will be the fate of Brian and Carl, who are, among other things, pathological liars.
‘So if you believe so much that both pastor Brian and pastor Carl are “cult like teachers” […]’
We dont’ “believe” that, Alex, we know that to be a fact.
“[…] then i [sic] advise you […]”
And who in their right mind would take advice from you, who doesn’t know what the Gospel is and is unable to distinguish a false teacher from a true one?
“[…] as the WORD OF GOD says […]”
You wouldn’t know the Word of God if it bit you on the backside.
“As Pastor Carl Lentz has said […]”
Carl Lentz is a buffoon. No one with an ounce of discernment pays the least bit of attention to anything he says.
“Its [sic] the ignorant religious people that will pull down his [sic] church.”
Actually Alex, you yourself are a textbook example of the ignorant religious people that pull down God’s church (as distinct from Brian Houston’s hillsong cult).
So tell us, Alex: does Brian Houston pay you to comment here, or do you do so as a favour to him because you are so misguided?
Agree with you Churchwatcher – some people do and say things to gain the favour of men, and at the same time blaspheme the name of God with their cultish antics – just like the Pharisees, they have had their reward, but those who teach a true Gospel will be rewarded openly by their heavenly Father for their works, done in secret.
Alex, you’ve obviously been worshiping your ministry idols far too long, for you to have done any homework on them. Perhaps you would be happier at another blog or website where there is the same kind of information?
Brian Houston does not worship or teach about the God of the Bible – he has gone after strange gods – money, fame, influence, notoriety and regularly worships at the Temple of Mammon. It is a valid function of members of the Body of Christ to call out false teachers, who have harmed that body, and in such a public manner:
“Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.” (Romans 16:17, 18)
They serve their own belly – their own desires – have a look at the wealth that the Houstons have accumulated in preaching their false doctrine – this is not how Jesus and the apostles lived.
“good words and fair speeches” – well thought out tactics that are designed to corrupt and control people’s thinking and belief and to fleece them of their hard earned cash.
“the hearts of the simple” – simple hearted people who were really looking for the real Jesus Christ of scripture, have been sold a pup by the Hillsong money raking machine – are you a cog inside that machine Alex? Is that what the ‘anointing’ is for – to oil the “machinery” of Hillsong?
Brain has his ‘reward’ too – having sold out the Kingdom of God long ago, in order to build his own Hillsong “kingdom” and having enjoyed the lime lite of worldly success for all that time, there is nothing more for him to gain, except that which has surely coming his way… a strong delusion, because he refused to have a love for the truth.
I see that your alter ego ‘Fergusson MacRay’ on Facebook is doing some name calling. Calling Brian Houston a Nazi.
” Fergusson MacRay
Sounds like Brian Houston right?
“The official Nazi ideologist Alfred Rosenberg played an
important role in the development of “positive Christianity”,
which he conceived in discord with both Rome and the
Protestant church, whom he called “negative Christianity”.”
https://m.facebook.com/groups/279077245481916?view=permalink&id=880858185303816&refid=18&_ft_ ”
These sorts of attacks are puerile, at best.
I think that you are missing the point … at a superficial level, it looks a little gratuitous to compare and contrast Hillsong with the Nazis.
Then you dig a little deeper.
The Nazis needed to demolish the church because it was too Jewish. So they replaced the Jewish Messiah with a more masculine, Aryan Jesus.
They created a more “positive” Christianity by emphasizing the miracles of Jesus, the condemnation of the Pharisees (Jews), the teaching of Jesus with respect to the cleansing of the temple and so on.
There was a playing down of personal sins. Mistakes to be glossed over.
Because “Positive” Christianity was so ideologically driven, the “Confessing” Christian movement began in opposition to it. The Fuhrer was the visionary (vision-casting) leader of the Nazi church who heard from God. He effectively took the place of Jesus as mediator between God and Man.
Brian Houston as well as every other vision-casting leader has done the same thing.
Who taught him to do this? Every purpose-driven church leader does this. It comes from Rick Warren, who got it from Peter Drucker. Peter Drucker grew up in Vienna, and his house played host to many high-ranking Nazis. Drucker himself admitted, shortly before his death, that he was not a Christian but a communitarian.
Communitarianism can be described as fascism-lite.
People look at the obvious things like mass-murder, or totalitarian government. But these are just the symptoms. You cannot hope to treat the high fever in a patient until you have some idea what is causing it. The major reason why the most civilized nation on earth (Germany) descended to committing the most barbaric acts must lie in the the willingness of the people to subvert their own will in order to fulfill the vision of Adolf Hitler. They substituted Critical Thinking for Authoritative Thinking.
The biggest concern in the visible church today is the absence of Critical Thinking. When added to Biblical Illiteracy you end up with people defending Brian Houston for shielding his dad from the cops, instead of declaring him a criminal who needs to stand trial for aiding and abetting a child abuser. At least he admitted he didn’t report the crimes to the police to the Royal Commission while on oath.
It should be a very short trial.
christians fighting over each other. I wonder how pleasing it is for God to hear all this. But…In order to tell the truth, I guess each and every one of us has to do its own research to find what they are looking for. And you should feel it in your heart that God is communicating with you in your beliefs. I was so excited to go to the Hillsong concert in Chicago this month and spent great deal of money on them. My friend advised me to look further in depth about the leaders of Hillsong. To my surprise, I was very disappointed in what I was able to uncover. Carl Lentz…he needs God in his life. Just because he is a leader of the church, The devil can easily use people like Carl Lentz within the church to spread a false gospel and to me I’m convinced that is what is happening here. Brian Houston also believing in One God make me think that “One Religion” is coming soon along with the “New World Order”. To me all this is scary. Churches force to marry gay couples goes totally against the bible. It’s almost like, Christianity is being improvised and lot of christians are losing its way. I should have known something about Hillsong. When they praise, its almost like they are doing as entertainers and not for the glory of God.
“I wonder how pleasing it is for God to hear all this.”
This is a fascinating point. If you look at Deuteronomy about false prophets, God says he raises up fakes to expose the genuineness of a believers love to God.
And Jesus said, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments”. The fight against the Hillsong cult should have been dealt with at it’s inception with it’s false prophet Frank Houston.
So why is there fighting and factions among “Christians”? Because as Revelations teaches us; there is Christ’s church (bride) and there is a false church (harlot).
And the imagery of the harlot goes back to the book of Proverbs and the writings of the Prophets. The Prophets talked about how Israel whored after other Gods and their many Gods.
What we are seeing is God using Hillsong to sort the genuine Christians from the false converts.
An atheist can discern the true from the false if they just picked up a bible and saw Christians saying what the bible clearly teaches in contrast to “Christians” who say things that contradict the bible.
So many false Christians or deceived Christians throw the typical “Judge not lest ye be judged”, “he who hasn’t sinned cast the first stone”, “no church is perfect” or “for all have sinned” passages around to silence and abuse Christians.
So who are the true Christians? Well Jesus said, “My sheep hear my voice” and “If you love me, keep my hands”. Going on that – Hillsong members fail abysmally. We do sincerely pray that missionaries and pastors will rise and lead those that think they are Christian’s into the actual faith, “once and for all delivered to the saints”.
So God is pleased. God is pleased when Christians obey Christ, defend and uphold His Turth and Word, preach his gospel faithfully and expose the liars and the fakes that blaspheme his name. That’s what children of the light do. God is not pleased with those who maliciously malign His Word and His bride. And He is definitely not pleased when the church cowers at the expense of His name being blasphemed.
So the fact that Christians are finally speaking out against a cult that has gotten away with so much blasphemy and immorality over decades, makes God happy that His church may be finally obeying His Word.
This article doesn’t make sense. It appears to be a mere, unfair and uninformed attack on Brian Houston and Hillsong United. Please for future articles, make sure you have SOLID facts. I am far from being convinced. I came on this site hoping to read good writing and truth-telling, but Nope. Get some help from “Vigilant Citizen” now that site is believable. Not this. Sorry but you gotta try a LOT harder. Don’t add me to your ‘newsletter’ list please. If you’re to attack a church with such allegations you have to be more serious with your investigative journalism.
“This article doesn’t make sense. It appears to be a mere, unfair and uninformed attack on Brian Houston and Hillsong United. Please for future articles, make sure you have SOLID facts. I am far from being convinced. I came on this site hoping to read good writing and truth-telling, but Nope. Get some help from “Vigilant Citizen” now that site is believable. Not this. Sorry but you gotta try a LOT harder. Don’t add me to your ‘newsletter’ list please. If you’re to attack a church with such allegations you have to be more serious with your investigative journalism.”
You are braindead.