Before reading the article by Steve West, it is important to understand who Steve West is.
During that time he served in most ministry areas – kids, youth, carpark, sound, new Christians, offering collection and ushering. He worked closely with many leaders and gave virtually all his available time and money to the church, volunteering at all conferences in that time and spending an average of six to seven days a week at Hillsong Church. He progressed to an effective pastor position at an affiliated church and ran a local young adults ministry effectively for several years.
With this in mind, Steve West wrote the following article.
Modern Pentecostalism in Australia Part 1.2
by Steve West on Sunday, 2 May 2010 at 14:09 ·
Reflection on Part 1
Thanks to those who contributed to the discussion in part 1, with a particular thanks to James Kasinathan for being critical of my post. Contrary to pentecostals (more on this in the part 2) I consider the kind of criticism that James levelled at my post to be constructive. He was seeking to find the substance in my claims and was asking for references, and when provided with them, he was critical of them. This is good form, and I only wish more people were mature enough to give and receive this form of criticism, with the understanding that it helps sort through our case by seperating the wheat from the chaff.
Part 1 argued that the Pentecostals are facing a demographic crisis as the base of their growth is church switching and that this is a shrinking pool of potential converts. I suspect their growth rates have been declining for the last decade (I only have some evidence for this) and that the underlying demographic realities is the reason. I argued that they need to develop a real missiology that is able to deal with mainstream Australians, that they be less geared towards outreaching to Christians. They need to know how to reach out to secularists and atheists, intellectually and emotionally. The current premise, that of inviting your friends to a service steeped in Pentecostalist assumptions, is simply not working at an effective rate.
On that, I had a friend speak of these issues with me last night, and he said a fascinating thing which I believe reveals to you the interesting assumptions inherent in Pentecostalist thought. He said he was a supporter of Hillsong because a larger church is more likley to have a larger impact. He argued that with more resources, a large church could outreach into a community and be heard more effectively by society.
Here is why I disagree with his position. First, Hillsong is a very small church. It consists of roughly 30000 people in various ‘campuses’ and satellite meetings. This is small cookies. The Uniting church, Anglicans and Catholic church far, far outnumber Hillsong. The fact that Hillsong likes to consider itself a single congregation is incidental. In practical outworkings, it functions more as a highly centralised denomination, and should be considered as such. As a denomination, it is very small. Society has far greater respect for Catholics, Anglicans and the Uniting Church, as these denominations avoid the “it’s all a scam” issues that Hillsong evokes. Further, these denominations have a much deeper charitable impact on society. They have long traditions of charitable arms helping people for many generations. That is not to say that Hillsong’s attempt in these things is futile – far from it, there are many people in our society who are needy (especially refugees) and any help they get is a good thing. But I see no reason to award Hillsong any particular credit. It doesn’t impact society particularly deeply compared to the old churches. Its impact isn’t particularly large. If I wanted to join a church for the size of its impact and for building something large that society would listen to, I would certainly try one of the big three; Catholic, Anglican or Uniting, depending on my theological bent.
Pentecostal leaders really need to move away from the self-congratulation they have achieved with their numbers and really start to think critically as the future of their denomination depends on it. If God’s blessing really lies with numbers, are they arguing that God blesses both Catholics and Muslims more than themselves? Of course, the fundie Pentecostal will immediately object to that assertion and there they must realise that their logic on the matter is inconsistent.
Update: Alphacrucis
News just in – apparently the premier Pentecostal training facility in Australia, Alphacrucis (formerly Southern Cross College) has sold its main campus in Chester Hill to an Islamic school for 23 million. This is likely due to ongoing financial problems that the college was experiencing.
Wake up Pentecostals. You have branded me as a ‘bitter cynic’ for years and ostracised me for it. When will you realise that your ‘critics’ were often people who cared very much, and whose advice you could well have used? How short sighted to take constructive criticism as someone having a ‘negative spirit’.
Source: Steve West, Modern Pentecostalism in Australia Part 1.2, http://www.facebook.com/notes/steve-west/modern-pentecostalism-in-australia-part-12/422200316927, 02/05/2010. (Accessed 18/11/2012.)
(Disclaimer: The views of Steve West do not necessarily represent our own personal views. We have decided to publish his articles so people may witness his journey out of Hillsong.)
NOTE: SCREEN GRAB WAS TAKEN ON THE 18/11/2012.
Steve comments that Hillsong is only about 30,000 strong, and that may be the case, however, Pentecostals per se are almost 240,000 strong according to the 2011 Census, as quoted here, under the Religiious Affiliations subheading:
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/2071.0main+features902012-2013
This is only indicative of how many people that were surveyed,ticked that particular box, and gives no indication as to whether they are currently active, or not, and as to whether they hold to sound doctrine and time honoured practices or have gone the way of the NAR and the hyper faith ilk.
To even say the words Pentecostal or Charismatic can invoke the ire of some, with those identifying themselves as the moderates of either movement (and they are seperate movements in origin and outworking, although many people tend to lump them into the same generally broad grouping,) feeling the need to distance themselves from the more radical and errant parts of the ‘brand’.
As for mentioning the good works of the older more stayed denominations, what Steve must also remember (if he has any such memories,) is that these “welfare organisations” that are supposedly arms of the ‘church’ depend heavily on government money and have to toe the party line – less religion equals more money.
Most of their good works are government funded and are underpinned by a cacophony of socialist philosophy and are often run by people who may be experienced in ‘welfare work’ but who are often found to be Christian in name only.
Good works even done in the name of Christ will not save anybody, and postmodern churches that have become cultish, money raking organisations, bring shame on the name of Jesus Christ when that money goes missing without explanation or restitution.
Austin Hellier
So why did West delete those well written posts shortly after he appeared on that appalling, biased and fictional Today Tonight story.
Apparently Steve West received a legal treat from Brian H. And he has fallen away from the faith… from Dialogue with a former Believer who renounced Faith in God: http://www.christian-faith.com/dialogue-with-a-former-believer-who-renounced-faith-in-god/
Hillsong is full of crazy people, they brain wash you, they tell you how to believe in Jesus, you can’t have a relationship with Jesus for your self, even Pastor Brien’s sister is fake, so who knows thousands of people being miss lead. Fake prophet , believe me I’ve lived it, it’s a world of fantasy, everything thinks their holy, their prophets, they are arogant, you have go to with what people believe , their pussy, and to start with if your really in personal issues before you know it you have been brain washed and it only comes to realisation that you have being brain washed because you keep having clashes with people’s arogance, in every aspect of life it self. Disgusting people, disgusting life, disgusting mind set, just people with a deceitful heart and that’s the truth .
And you know that they also dedicate preach weeks in preaching about the 10% giving, about the once a year giving day in abundance and just brain wash people to give above and beyond, that you will be blessed, these people are just fucked up to be blunt, call hillcult, their a business for robbing people willingly, and out of everything they receive only give out peanuts to society, to charity, do you know that 99% of the people working at their churches are volunteers, slavery, they say the more you become involved, the more you serve volunteering the more you will be blessed, it’s about pleasing people, slavery, saving on wages, just a crazy environment.
When they preach the word, God’s word it’s always positive, they are selective on what they preach, on what verses they use! Which is the same thing as removing the words, changing the bible to suit their their needs.
Jesus clearly prohibits any removals from his word, that you will not be saved. This has happened since the Pentecostal religion started, some crazy moron started preaching his own bible, the has other idiots follow him, the 2 so called Christians bishops moron approved the distorted bible and many years later hillsong cult is born, this is the second coming of the fake Jesus, the devil, misleading his people from salvation, which was predicted by Jesus our God, millions of people being deceived just. Few decades after Jesus was crucified. Please put someone to investigate Hillsong, infiltrate their people, see how they work, what they preach, their connect group teaching, their arrogance, the serving, their giving, just witness their brainwashing and stealing of people’s free will live, their lives stolen to a cause of their own and not what Jesus is about! See the biggest cult in this era live, expose these fraudster that are getting away with fraud, slavery, deceit, lies and just being dishonest to everyone, stealing from our government with tax concessions, they should be treated like a business and made to pay tax for every cents they make, they are not a church, they should be exposed and made illegal, we live in a free society, to live without being brainwashed, simply disgusting. Be part of the biggest story by exposing these fraudters.
Id love to expose them after being put through the wringer myself. Everything you say Hillcult is true. But I will say after just going to my first and last Colour Conference and annoyingly sitting through a sexualised video of the three Houston girls (one daughter,two daughters in law) how much people are brainwashed and led astray is ghastly. I myself too, until recently,thanks to Jesus. Id like to know how Laura Houston who is married with three children and a youth pastor like her husband can afford a beautiful home on the Californian coast so young at 27 when the typical youth pastors salary is $34k in the US and they have three young children. Who can afford a beautiful home so young on that wage ? Hillsong folks that’s where a portion of your tithing is going to, WAKE UP, your funding other peoples luxury lifestyles!
I love Jesus – can you also post your comment on this article as well? And anything else you might like to add, especially more detail on the “sexualised video”.
https://hillsongchurchwatch.com/2015/03/09/barbie-houston-reviewed-selah-baby-selah-notinthebible/
I will write it again on the article you are suggesting. my computer wont let me copy and paste at the moment ?!