Brian Houston, buckingham, C3, c3 church, christian city church, church, gay, Hillsong, Hillsong Church, homosexuality, houston, phil pringle, pringle, queerstianity, rob buckingham
Queerstianity: A group of people that supposedly push no political or religious agenda but “share” their philosophy of tolerance and love onto others.”
(Source: Urban Dictionary [slightly edited])
Brian Houston of Hillsong Church is slowly grooming his congregation to embrace the false “Gay Christianity” doctrine. To understand why this doctrine is such a blatant attack on the Christian faith please read our article below. We are aware how sensitive this Christian issue is and wish to deal with it mindfully.
Hillsong grooming its members to embrace Gay Christianity (Part 1)
To understand the below article, we would advise you to become familiar with Part 2.
Hillsong grooming its members to embrace Queerstianity (Part 2)
In Part 2, Ben Gresham taught us that when he met with Houston, Houston was committed to have “discussions with other pastors (such as Rob Buckingham of Bayside Church, Melbourne)” over sexual orientation. Who is Rob Buckingham of Bayside “Church”?
Christian Sh*tty Church censors Pastor Rob Buckingham
Pastor Rob Buckingham
Andrew Strom blogs…
“It all started with a 2009 blog post by Rob Buckingham, pastor of a large Pentecostal megachurch called ‘Bayside’ in Melbourne, Australia. His blog post was entitled, “Is Jesus Anti-Gay?” and made the case for ‘acceptance’ being the true Christian attitude toward Homosexuals. Now bear in mind that this is not some “liberal” church or ‘liberal’ congregation here. This fellowship is part of the “C3″ (Christian City Church) denomination – one of the largest mainstream Pentecostal groups in Australia. That is why the Gay community was so delighted by it all.
In the ‘comments’ section after his article, Rob Buckingham made his views even clearer: “As a Christian, and pastor of a church, I sometimes find the attitudes of fellow Christians embarrassing. We have a number of gay men and women in our church and they are accepted just the way they are – just like everyone else is.” So you are no longer willing to preach what Jesus preached, Rob? “GO and SIN NO MORE.”
Rob Buckingham later went on to preach a message at Bayside that was entitled, “Real Christianity is Accepting”. (You can find it on Youtube). In it the pastor overturned the usual understanding of the ‘Sodom & Gomorrah’ story and advocated “Christian acceptance” of homosexuals. The Pentecostal congregation literally gave him a standing ovation at the end of his sermon.
This message was heralded by the Gay press as a huge leap forward inside the Pentecostal movement. One Gay activist called it, ‘The Bayside Breakthrough’. The Star Online trumpeted, “Church Advocates for Gay Acceptance… minister at Melbourne´s Pentecostal Bayside Church received a standing ovation earlier this month for preaching just that in a special sermon on how the church should embrace GLBT [Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual & Transgender] people.”
The official Bayside website also published the following statement: “Bayside Church welcomes GLBT people to find God´s love and grace and to worship Him freely within our community.”
Even though this whole affair became very well-known, the leadership of the C3 (Christian City Church) movement apparently “declined to comment” on it – even though the C3 movement is led by Phil Pringle, a very well-known preacher in Australia. It seems Bayside is still welcome to be part of ‘C3′ and Rob Buckingham remains a high-profile pastor in the movement. All of his blog posts on this subject are still proudly featured on the church website. Which surely leads one to believe that Rob Buckingham’s views must not be too different from the overall church’s views on this subject. Isn’t that reasonable to assume, since they have said nothing to the contrary? I wonder if Australian Pentecostals are aware that this huge compromise is now taking place under their own banner?
And so, Homosexual Acceptance is free to enter into the Pentecostal movement by the back door, since leaders no longer dare to actually make a stand on the issue. Please write to Phil Pringle and the C3 movement if you would like to know why they have been so “silent” about this – even to their own members. Here is the email to write to- email@example.com
Isn’t it sad that “political correctness” is now overtaking even the Pentecostal churches worldwide? Perhaps the fruit of years of no real ‘Repentance’ being preached? And I have recently heard of large Baptist churches in Australia also starting to head in the same direction. Who will stand and defend the truth?”
Andrew Storm further blogs…
“Just for the record, my big concern in this was that homosexuals were being welcomed right into actual Pentecostal ‘fellowship’ – with no sign that it was being called “sin” at all. In fact, complete “acceptance” of homosexuals ‘just as they are’. I personally have no problem with reaching out in love toward homosexual people for the sake of their salvation and cleansing through Jesus. I do believe in compassion for the sinner. But this is very different. This is total “acceptance” of Homosexuals into actual Pentecostal fellowship. Where is the repentance? Where is the stand on what God calls “SIN”? That was my big concern.
I am delighted to say that the overall C3 church has now issued a firm response concerning this issue. However, there are still real question marks, as we shall see. But first – their response. Here it is-
Thank you for your email and expression of your concerns regarding this issue. We wanted you to know our position on this matter so there is no confusion regarding our beliefs. Below is a short statement that we trust will help clarify our stance.
C3 Churches hold to the historic Judeo-Christian view of sexual union being between a man and a woman in marriage. We do not recognise the practice of homosexuality as biblically valid for a follower of Christ, nor do we promote it. We do however promote and expect God’s great love and grace to be shown to all, regardless of their orientation.
Also we wanted you to know that Ps Buckingham has removed his blog at our request as it does not reflect our beliefs.
Kind Regards, C3 Church Global”
ANDREW AGAIN: An excellent response, and I am very happy that the C3 movement has been so clear about it. However, it is not actually true that Rob Buckingham has removed his blog post. In fact, the worst two are still up, including – “Is Jesus Anti-Gay?” and ‘The Acceptance Controversy’. And his comment is still there for all to see- “As a Christian, and pastor of a church, I sometimes find the attitudes of fellow Christians embarrassing. We have a number of gay men and women in our church and they are accepted just the way they are – just like everyone else is.”
Here is the link so you can see for yourself-http://www.baysidechurch.com.au/content/view/231/243/
The C3 statement said that Rob Buckingham had already removed the blog post concerned. But actually none of them have been removed yet at all. And Bayside’s Youtube video – “Real Christianity is Accepting” is also still up for all the world to see.
And anyway, even if they do take them down at some point, does that mean Rob Buckingham’s attitude has truly changed? He is the pastor of thousands of C3 people, after all.
If you want to clarify if and when any of this stuff will be removed, you can contact C3 – firstname.lastname@example.org
And in the meantime, I have received a great deal of confirmation that mainstream Baptist churches in both New Zealand and Australia are also preaching or practising “Homosexual Acceptance” and no longer treating it as ‘sin’. This is a crisis. The walls are down. Is it already too late?
-PLEASE COMMENT on this topic below-
Yours in Christ – Andrew Strom ( email@example.com )”
Pastor Rob Buckingham’s blog post ‘Is Jesus anti-gay?’ as it appears today after being censored by Christian Shitty Church…
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Through the magic of the internet archive, here is Pastor Rob Buckingham’s ‘Is Jesus anti-gay?’ blog post before it was censored by Christian Shitty Church…
“So often Christianity is linked with being right wing, anti-gay, anti-Obama, anti-Muslim and pro-Israel.
Now I have strong views on all of these topics, but sometimes our strong views need to be kept to ourselves in order to be effective in reaching out to others. For example, sending out an anti-gay message does nothing to reach gay people for Jesus. All it does is ostracize them from the church and force them to find refuge amongst their own community instead of finding love, acceptance and forgiveness in the community of Christ.
The apostle Paul discusses this in Romans 2 where he rebukes judgmental people and reminds them that it is God’s kindness, tolerance and patience, which ultimately leads people back to God.
WWJD? What would Jesus do? A simple look at the gospels reveals the answer to this question. The only people Jesus judged were the rightwing, religious fundamentalists who thought they had it all together and were the sole bearers of religious truth (see Matthew 23). These people were harsh in their judgment of others; Jesus was harsh in His judgment of them.
But to others, the marginalized and disenfranchised, Jesus offered a gracious and loving view of God. He said nothing about homosexuality (except some words in Matthew 19:11-12 that could be an insight into Jesus’ views of those with same-sex attractions). He had plenty to say about a woman with a dubious past who let her hair down (literally) and anointed him with perfume. When criticized by the religious, Jesus defended her and established a memorial in her honor.
He saved a woman who was divorced and remarried five times and living in a defacto relationship with someone else’s husband. He forgave a woman, caught in the act of adultery, that the religious fundamentalists wanted to stone to death. You get the picture. All these people had their lives (and behavior) changed by the gracious acceptance of Jesus, not His harsh criticism and condemnation.
WWJD is a good question that we all need to ask. The only problem is when some people ask themselves the question they come up with the wrong answer and become cruel critics instead of those who demonstrate the kindness, tolerance and patience of God. One repels, the other attracts. WWYD? What will you do?”
Source: By Groupsects, Christian Sh*tty Church censors Pastor Rob Buckingham, Group Sects,
http://groupsects.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/christian-shtty-church-censors-pastor-rob-buckingham/, Published 30/03/2013. (Accessed 02/10/2013.)
we know that churches like hillsong and c3 do not challenge their members about sin, they are trying not to offend anyone. because they are afraid of losing people.
they endorse sin, because they dont want to lose their numbers. the bible makes it very clear.
mankind lying down with mankind is a abomination to god. leviticus 18:22 they will surely be put to death leviticus 20:13.
they wont enter into the kingdom of god 1 corinthians 6:9-10.
Which part of the following statement from C3 do you not understand, Mr Hatch?
C3 Churches hold to the historic Judeo-Christian view of sexual union being between a man and a woman in marriage. We do not recognise the practice of homosexuality as biblically valid for a follower of Christ, nor do we promote it. We do however promote and expect God’s great love and grace to be shown to all, regardless of their orientation.
The disclaimer was actually published in the post above, so why are you making the extraordinary claims you are?
It is also evidence of the diversity of teaching from within C3 and Hillsong churches which I pointed out to Andy on the other thread.
No C3 or Hillsong church I know of endorses sin. Your claims are baseless.
Liars won’t enter the kingdom of God either, I think you’ll find.
Totally agree with what you are saying, Gordy
Offering a quote from C3 in reply to MrHatch isn’t really a credible answer to his statement at all, is it Steve? MrHatch clearly show a relevant passage of scripture.
Even though grace now applies, and not Law, the intent of this dire warning is still evident. It is still an abomination to God, nothing has changed in terms of the understanding between Old Testament and New Testament teaching on this topic:
“Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” Jude 1:7 What’s changed?
“These people (the Pharisees) were harsh in their judgment of others; Jesus was harsh in His judgment of them.”
Well, that just about sums it up for you now, doesnt it? Do you really think that Christ will be any less harsh on modern church leaders, who continually harm the sheep and at the same time, indluge in making themselves look good in front of the crowd, even to the point of compromising orthodox belief in order to placate that crowd?
@ Gordy above Annette
“No C3 or Hillsong church I know of endorses sin. Your claims are baseless.”
Well Steve, if that is the case, then perhaps you can supply several links to some rousing Gospel messages, given by Brian Houston or Phil Pringle on youtube or elsewhere online, in order to dispel such “baseless claims”?
Let’s have a look and see whether they actually preach the Gospel, and at the same time preach about/against sin? That shouldn’t be too hard – if such recorded messages exist…
And repeating the term Christian Sh*tty Church is as vile as its author, and completely unnecessary.
By the way, if you click on the link above in the article you will find it says “Page not found”, which indicates it has been removed.
And, as I recall, Rob Buckingham doesn’t actually endorse homosexuality as a lifestyle, rather he welcomes gay and lesbian people into the church. I think he has been misrepresented, but I am open to evince to suggest otherwise. I, like C3, do not support homosexuality as a lifestyle. I donut see any choice for the disciple of Christ but to minister truth to all people regardless of their background.
I think we have to be careful about the labels we attach to people.
I donut see any choice for the disciple of Christ but to minister truth to all people regardless of their background. Gordy, you been eating donuts? Hahaha
@ Gordy, just above Annette – Steve, interesting that your parting shot was:
“I think we have to be careful about the labels we attach to people.”
but part of your opening shot was:
“as vile as its author,”
but that’s not part of any labelling on your part though, is it? Now the ‘pot’ seems intent on calling a whole kitchen full of kettles black…
Your venemous attacks on people who are speaking out is bordering on the hypocritical and is not edifying, nor does it discover any new facts, but your efforts seem to be wholly engaged in covering up whatever you cannot justify or explain away.
One good thing about the posts on Part 2 yesterday and Parts 2 and 3 today, is that no one will leave HS or C3 CW blogsites, not knowing what the real Gospel of Jesus Christ is, not knowing what it means to repent and not knowing that at the same time God does love them – that is why He sent His Son, and that is why He commands them to repent – and nothing less will do.
No one will go away with a false gospel, which blatantly tells sinners (of whatever kind) that they don’t need to repent and that has been made abundantly clear. No one will want to knowingly buy into any trashy half truths, spouted by mega church agents, who have no idea what they are talking about, and have rejected wise counsel, even if they perceive that it comes from the mouths of fools (1Cor 1:27)
Well done HSCW team – it takes a team real effort to discount the falsehoods and fables of the Hyper Faith, NAR, Emergent and Latter Rain movements, and it is only by all of you folks calling in with your Bibles opened and ready to “divide the word of God rightly” having studied to show yourselves approved, and sharing your thoughts of that word online, that this can be accomplished.
Austin, we are not saying homosexuality is not sin. We are saying it’s ok for anyone, including homosexuals, to come to church. That’s the true gospel. However I must say that as long as we preach the truth about all sin, including homosexuality, but preach in love, then there’s no harm done. You seem fearful.
The author of the Christian Sh*tty Church epithet has never been on this site as far as I know, so I don’t know what you are talking about, Austin. You seem to make things up regardless of knowing all the facts. He is the author of another blog. He is a gay man who defends gay rights, hates pastors and Pentecostals, and only posts negative reports about churches, pastors and ministries.
I agree, though, saying he is vile was wrong. I repent. Only the epithet is vile.
Jim Styles said:
So now I question Rob Buckingham. In his few statements:
ROB#1==> “WWJD? What would Jesus do? A simple look at the gospels reveals the answer to this question. The only people Jesus judged were the rightwing, religious fundamentalists who thought they had it all together and were the sole bearers of religious truth (see Matthew 23).”
That is incorrect. The Pharisees were the rightwing, but the Saducees were the leftwing and they were also rebuked. So much for a “simple look.”
ROB#2==> “Jesus offered a gracious and loving view of God. He said nothing about homosexuality (except some words in Matthew 19:11-12 that could be an insight into Jesus’ views of those with same-sex attractions).”
Ok, so what about all the other Scriptures outside of Jesus own red text words? Are they now discarded?
And what is this “that could be an insight” fluff? Isn’t he sure where the Word of God stands on same-sex attractions? I don’t think there is any doubt, why does he?
Annette, my stance in all of this is not based on fear. It is based on taking a stand for the truths of God’s word and Christian orthodoxy, which has come down to us from Christ and the apostles, unto the present day. Those truths are being attacked under the guise of “love for gay people” and that is the sneaky ‘back door’ approach that some of these mega churches have taken. Not tomention the already obvious “love for money” that these large churches indulge in.
I have a gay neighbour, who I get on with quite well. We have often done little favours for each other and have been a listening ear in times of trouble. I know that she is a lesbian, because she told me. She knows that I’m a Christian and that I firmly believe that homosexuality is unacceptable to God as a lifestyle.
We have discussed this on several occasions, but I’ve not indulged in any ‘gay bashing’ nor do I visit gay bars in order to chastise people (as Gordy so ridiculously intimated in his opening post on yesterdays Part 2 thread)
I think you have to realise Annette that Gordy/Steve isn’t really here to help anyone. He may seem like he’s trying to help but his presence here is almost always disruptive, and it is he with his self justifying nonsense that is more likely to scatter the sheep as he accuses almost everyone of doing or saying something wrong eventually – but he is never wrong?
Sure, a blog will always attract people who disagree, but he goes way beyond that, as Berean has pointed out on a number of occasions. He paints himself into a corner because he disagrees with the methods used here to expose false teachings in the church and also tries to protect the reputations of those who promote those teachings. They are the false prophets of Matthew 7:13, and their time is almost up.
If you go back over the posts on both threads from the last few days all of that becomes evident. Some of Gordy’s ‘advice’ and his own ‘teaching’ is more than able to mislead people away from Bible truth, so I warn you not to give him any creedance.
You may have your struggles from time to time Annette, but that is a normal part of Christian growth and maturity. Gordy even denies that basic truth (1John 1:8,9)
For someone to say that you can be free from struggling with sin, just because you spout a few scriptures here and there, is ridiculous. Even the apostles had their struggles and were not ‘sinlessly perfect’. It is a matter of growth, not legalism.
The only fear that I have, is that people will fail to see the points that have been made thus far on the blog, and will be deceived in welcoming homosexuality into the church, as oposed to simply welcome those who practise it. They are not the same issue – this is NOT that!
You are being disingenuous and misleading yourself in your attack on what I have been saying, Austin, and it does smell of fear.
I have stated categorically that the act of homosexual sex is sin, and not to be promoted. Any sex outside of marriage is sin. I do not agree with all that Rob says on this, but I also think he is being misquoted.
Brian is almost certainly being misquoted.
You are defending c3cw/hscws right to be wrong. Fine. Maybe you prefer a one sided approach to controversy. That could only be out of fear that you do not have all the information or the answers.
Jim Styles said:
Not only was Gordy’s “opening shot” unappreciated, I also did not particularly appreciate Gordy’s parting shot there either, when he said this to Mrhatch…..
==> “Liars won’t enter the kingdom of God either, I think you’ll find.”
#1==> how can you love homosexuals as much as you claim you do, when you suggest your own brother is going to hell? Show me that in the Word of God, Gordy. Is that one of your teachings?
#2==> and for someone who hates stone throwers, Gordy always seems the quickest around here to throw stones.
Gordy reminds one of the ancient “slingers” that used to hide in battle,, then come in throwing stones and shooting arrows. Always on the attack. always extending the carrot, then pulling out the stick. Yuck.
No stones there, eh, Jim! LOL!
Mr Hatch suggested sin is not preached in these churches so no one is offended. This is untrue. He also said they endorse sin. Again, not true. He said homosexuals should be stoned. Not true under the NT. They should repent and sin no more.
Liars don’t have to go hades. They can repent.
“For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” 2 Tim 1:7
i’m not afraid of anything or anyone, so grasp at that straw all you like…
Jim Styles said:
GORDY#1 ==> “No stones there, eh, Jim! LOL!”
No stones, that was an accurate description of the immature behavior you have consistently displayed ever since you arrived on this website.
GORDY#2 ==> “Liars don’t have to go hades. They can repent”
No, that is not what you said the first time. You suggested Mrhatch was going to hell. And I simply corrected you.
And on top of all the above, observation shows, additionally you appear to have problems receiving correction now too.
Actually, I said liars do not inherit the kingdom, but there you go. I never mentioned hell. So, if we say we love sinners we are not exposing sin, but if we talk about sin we are not displaying love? Which is it to be, Jim?
I do not think mr hatch is going to hell. I think he said some things which are not true. Perhaps he can rephrase his claims.
There are lots of sins which disqualify one from the kingdom, though.
Jim, don’t worry too much about Gordy/Steve Rowe and his blathering. I spent most of last week on his blogsite and most of this week on this one, and I’m yet to hear him “divide the word rightly” on important issues and major doctrines of the faith.
Keep on calling in – and while you’re here, keep on calling it how you see it. Keep the false prophets an teachers at bay…
And feel very free to keep on calling Steve out over his ridiculous unwarrented and immature behaviour – he needs the rather large stick that you are weilding!
Jim good on you – take the battle to the gates. This is what I meant when I said in my previous post that Steve Rowe isn’t here to help anyone – here’s here to be deliberately disruptive – under the guise of being helpful.
So please folks, don’t be deceived by the appearance of reason, good faith, and false charm – they are all designed to get you going, and to say things that Steve can then throw stones at. That is his childish and immature approach to “ministry”.
I can just imagine having a debate with him after “church” is over, if you ever dared to disagree with “Pastor Dezaster”. You’d be shown the back door for sure…
He is constantly and consistently setting people up for the fall, but the best way to expose him is to just keep sharing Bible truth and at the same time challenge his ridiculous assertions, half truths and occasional downright lies.
The truth is, that he can’t attract any great numbers of people to his own woefull blogsite (https://c3churchwatchwatch.wordpress.com/) so he then feels the need to don his ‘pastor’s’ cap and head on down to bash the sheep here at this blogsite.
So keep on going Steve – you are doing the right thing there – just keep exposing your true motives, attitudes and personality and the penny will drop for the rest of the folks sometime soon…
One more thing Jim – I agree that his comments about MrHatch going to Hell are very off the wall and unnecessary. After all, this is the same guy that has just posted on the Part 2 section of this thread about how Jesus and Paul never gave us the right to judge anyone. See this link:
Convoluted logic? Circular reasoning? Wrong doctrine on Part 2 and the right one on Part 3? Poor old Steve cannot see the error of his way, even when it is put up on display for all to see, but that is the blindness of those that have that Pharisee spirit.
And that is why false teachers such as him will lead many people into the ditch – because of his wilful blindness.
“A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.” (Titus 3:10)
No, Austin, that’s incredible unjust, especially when I state categorically and clearly, to accept correction and reassure Jim, that I do not think mr hatch is going to hell (which I never said anyway), yet, unperturbed, you create an entire fabrication that I did.
The rest is just a slur.
Well then Steve, the more you keep your mouth closed, the less you will be misunderstood!
my claims are not basless, they use watered down and diluted bibles like the message and the new living translation.
they are preaching mixed messages by telling people what they want to hear, they endorse sin because they do not challenge anyone one about their sin from their platform.
i was in hillsong london for 10 years so i know what im talking about.
i didnt say these churches preach sin, i said they dont preach truth. i dont need to repent.
i will enter the kingdom of god, im not a liar im not preaching a false gospel
i didnt say gay people should be stoned, read your bible and stop twisting what i said.
these churches also endorse false teachers like joel osteen, joseph prince and td jakes.
they are all money preachers.
all these churches are doing is using people to build their churches, they do not really care about souls.
there are a lot of conversions in these churches, yet there are no disciples being made.
Good on you MrHatch – I’m with you all the way – poor old Steve is well and truly on the run now – his little ‘preset’ word trap hasn’t worked this time, but then again the way he’s been behaving lately, anyone would think that Churchwatcher had written the post about him. The Bible talks about those who “by the sleight of men and their cunning and craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive” (Ephesians 4:14)
Maybe he did, in a way, as Steve Rowe seems to accept the garbage currently held to by HS and C3, I could well understanding him wanting to defend it – pity that the good Lord wrote a Bible that will never agree with his questionable doctrines, isn’t it?
Also, you may have noticed the (by now) obvious mood swings from nice to nasty and back again? Hardly someone who is exercising the fruit of self control – and then there’s the endless reams of “scripture quoting” and without any references either – that is just sheer laziness and quite frankly – this man calls himself a ‘preacher’.
Well Steve, do you just stand there on Sunday mornings and ‘quote a pile of scripture’ without commentary? No? Then why do it here? To confuse the sheep? and as Andy has said before – have you just come to HSCW in order to ‘preach’ at everyone, and make yourself out to be a know-it-all? Now maybe that’s a bit closer to the truth of it…
Here’s Ephesians 4:13,14,15 in context:
“13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ”
This is the follow on from the famous Eph 4:11 verse on ministry gifts, and this is the reason that they are given to the Church by Christ – to mature the saints for the work of the ministry (the spreading of the Gospel and the establishment of the Church) in each locale where the saints exist.
“Speaking the truth in love” has often been misunderstood as loving people to the point where you compromise truth for fear of offending them – that can never be. Christ told us that :
“Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and he will shew you things to come.” (John 16:13)
The Spirit of truthcould never inspire the blatant errors of the emergent church, nor any other abberations that are claiming to be some ‘new move of God’. If there is indeed a ‘new move’ then it is a move away from Bible truth and orthodxy. What did the apostle John have to say about such ‘moves’ away from God’s truth?
“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us” (1 John 2:18, 19)
The perpetrators of these false man made movements and their followers have ‘gone out from’ the circle of the saints, and in so dong, have declared themselves to beof the Antichrist spirit – the spirit of error and of the world. John says that they are of the world because the world hears them (their new age philosophy, occult practices and worldy methods of running a business and still calling it a “church”)
There is already a rising persecution of all true believers who will take a stand for truth, and John tells us why that is:
“For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 12Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.” (1 John 3:11, 12)
Why did Cain seek to slay Abel? Because his own works were evil, but Abel’s works were righteous because they involved the Godly pattern of blood sacrifice.
Cain offered up the works of his own hands – his theology, his wisdom, his ability, his proud offering was rejected by the Lord, because there was no sacrifice in it that typified the sacrifice of Christ upon the cross. there was no blood spilt and therefore no remission of sin.
It is only the cleansing flow of Jesus’ blood that will cleanse the sinner – no amount of works can be substituted instead – no church program, missions efforts, tithing, outreach or fasting will achieve what the blood of the Son of God has achieved – for all mankind – for all time – for eternity. That is the difference between Cain’s works and Abel’s righteous sacrifice of a lamb that he dearly loved and had tended for some tme – to sacrifice a life that he had grown, was a true sacrifice indeed.
@Austin… Were you kidding….?
You were not serious about that church watch watch watch watch [ad nauseum] website link you provided above were you? I just looked at that website.
It >cannot< be Gordy, because Gordy here keeps talking about getting along, and we've got to work together, and we're really saying the same things, and "our" message, and other lovey-dovey talk.
But that church watch watch watch watch [ad nauseum] website there does not talk as such. It says far different things.
Noone would come here and say these things, then go there and say those things, would they?
That would be deceit.
Well, actually, yes they would – if they wanted to deceive people over here into believing that they had a credible arguement on any topic or issue.
But over there, I got the same bad attitudes, my posts were continualyl twisted to say what Gordy (Steve Rowe) wanted them to say, as he argued politics, history, doctrine and of course, spent a lot of time telling me just how good his “ministry” was, compared to mine.
Of course, I took the precaution of saving updated screen captures, just in case I might need to refer back to them at some future date…
Well, the proof of the pudding is in the eating NFG – so feel free go back for ‘seconds’ if you want…
“Beware of false prophets, who come dressed in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves…” (Matthew 7:13)
Don’t be fooled by the ‘sheep’s clothing’ – if it seems to be a bit of a “loose fit” then it may not belong to a sheep at all…
Thanks for putting the truth out there Austin…. for all to see…
Per your thorough info, I think I’ll take a pass on going back to church watch watch watch watch [ad nauseum]. I have more important things to do than reading Gordy’s Gospel
i won’t be bookmarking his website, but, I will be praying for him though…..
yes its such truth you speak that i cannot deny comes straight from the word of god itself, all the church of today wants to do is for their members to give all their money, all their time to build their churches.
they are not interested in drawing their congregations, to the feet of jesus. yes you are right its all about church programs.
it is the blood of the lamb, the word of our testimony. revelation 12:11 jesus must be our first love revelation 2:4.
jesus said he would build his church matthew 16:18 he never called us to build the church he called us to be fishers of men. matthew 4:19 mark 1:17.
he also called us to forfill the great commission, matthew 28:19 matthew 24:14 mark 13:10 mark 16:15.
he said the harvest is plenteous, but the labourers are few matthew 9:37 luke 10:2
he also said many are called but few are chosen matthew 22:14 matthew 20:16.
jesus said he came to seek and save the lost matthew 18:11 luke 19:10. the church today thinks building the kingdom of god, is building the church.
the bible says we must go out and preach the kingdom of god luke 4:43 luke 9:2 luke 9:11.
the kingdom of god is peace joy righteousness in the holy spirit romans 14:17 the kingdom of god is not in word but in power 1 corinthians 4:20 the kingdom of god comes from within us luke 17:21.
and how are we going to do that, yes youre right with the spirit of truth john 14:17 john 16:13 1 john 4:6 1 john 5:6.
you have me curious. You stayed at Hotel Hilsong in London for 10 whole years, what was the final straw that broke the camels back that made you decide to leave?
Also have any other friends you had there left too, or are the people you knew still there?
MrHatch, I just love it when solid men like you come calling into the blog – it just goes to show how shallow and flimsy in the things of God the know-it-alls really are.
I believe that you have learned much of what you know the hard way? Well, we’ve all made mistakes, Lord knows, but that is how we learn. God allows various trials and temptations to come our way every now and then, so that we can see where we are up to.
Otherwise we’d just float along believing that everything is OK when it may not be OK at all! False teachers have no compassion for the lost – they just see them as “tithng units” that are easy prey for their tithing sermon nonsense. The Bible speaks out about those false shepherds who rob the sheep, leaving them all looking rather gaunt:
“Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks? Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.” (Ezekiel 34:2,3)
When I lived in Redcliffe years ago, I used to drive past the COC church there – also known as $chool of the Profit$. It was the biggest joke in town, as the very church that taught “prosperity’ also had the largest car park, right next door to the main building.
That car park had more than 200 old bomb cars parked there, Sunday after Sunday. The unsaved townsfolk used to drive past wagging their heads and laughing their heads off – “what prosperity” they would say to me down at the shopping mall. The so called prosperity doctrine does exactly what it was designed to do – make the false shepherds rich and leave the true sheep poor!
“Hill$ong College removes homosexuality warning from student handbook”
Seriously? Lance, the timing of your latest article makes me marvel at God’s providence.
Lance (Group Sects) writes…
Hill$ong College has quietly dropped a specific reference in its student handbook to ‘homosexuality’ being a breach of the student code of conduct (although it would still be covered under ‘premarital sex’)
Old student handbook
“….(E)ach student is expected to:
▪ Abstain from biblically immoral practices including; drunkenness, stealing, slanderous or profane language, dishonesty, occult practices and sexual sins (premarital sex, pornography, adultery and homosexuality) or any other behaviour that is considered detrimental to Christian character and witness…..”
Current student handbook
“….(E)ach student is expected to:
▪Abstain from biblically immoral practices including; drunkenness, stealing, slanderous or profane language, dishonesty, occult practices and sexual sins (premarital sex, pornography, adultery) or any other behaviour that is considered detrimental to Christian character and witness…..”
The current handbook adds an extra code of conduct requirement on college students.
“▪Refrain from getting any new tattoos while attending College….”
Yes. Interesting development. Can’t you just see the word ‘litigation’ overlapping ‘homosexuality’? No one will take you to court for saying no pornography, or no premarital sex, but a Government accredited college with ‘no homosexuality’ is just asking for it.
Strange times we are living in. And set to get worse. You can almost feel the world crowding in, and the Church is the target. We have to be the light on the hill that penetrates it.
And, I believe, we all have to pull together as we go deeper into the end times.
@ Gordy- it’s a bit disingenuous of you to make statements about Lance’s blog when you are commenting there again yourself as “Long Train Running”.
Are you calling Lance out at the moment? No.
And you probably can’t complain about the “rebranding” of C3 (I don’t like it either) because of your suspension of blogging rights as Facelift/Steve?
Berean. Maybe you’re right, but it’s an awful thing to call any church. If someone called your church something obscene I expect you’d have something to say about it regardless of whether you had blogging rights or not. Sorry to Lance. He has changed a lot, to be honest. Still unkind to pastors, though. And C3 evidently.
I think it’s worth seeing what John Macarthur had no problem voicing publically 6 years, and to this day hasn’t changed his stance.
This is what we should expect our church leaders to be saying publically as well, despite potential charges of homophobia or legal “discrimination”……
And Joel Osteen (looking like a deer in headlights) admitting “I don’t fully under it” as he “pastors” a congregation of 30,000 with attending homosexuals?
As he says, he there to lift them up, but where is the gospel that will bring them to repentance?
I see nothing wrong with anything that Joel Osteen said, or Victoria. They handled the interview extremely well and displayed Gods love and grace, without diminishing their stand on the truth of Gods Word. ” to lift them up” means to me, to lift them up out of their sin. He is speaking in love. “I don’t fully understand it” is a sign of humility. None of us will fully understand everything until we are in heaven.
Berean – “looking like a deer in headlights” is a very ungodly thing to say. I’m not perfect looking either. What would you say about me then?
This video is quite relevant to this issue. http://www.ligonier.org/learn/conferences/overcoming-the-world-2014-national-conference/against-the-world/
Now I am NOT suggesting *at all* that Hill$ong’s preachers are heretics like the mid 3rd-4th century heretic – but widely admired and popular teacher – Arius. e.g. “Jesus was not coeternal with the Father (therefore first created being)” heresy that today’s Jehovah’s Witnesses ascribe to.
The leader Athanasius who dared to speak against Arius was in exile for years because the majority of church leaders believed unity was more important than spiritual truth. They gave Arius the benefit of the doubt despite the amount of evidence against him.
Hill$ong’s apparent willingness to go along with (the unsaved world’s) opinions regarding homosexuality e.g. by omitting whatever may offend practising homosexuals (and their supporters) is *similar* to those leaders’ approach. Short term peace at the expense of biblial truth will NEVER please God.
P.S. Berean- how do you embed video codes?
@ thinker – I can only embed Youtube clips.
the only reason i was in hillsong for so long was because i was addicted to their praise and worship ministry.
someone told me years ago, hillsong were gifted in their music ministry. i am a singer songwriter who writes praise and worship songs and hymns.
so i checked them out, what made me leave when they started to go in the dance direction i thought i was in a nightclub not a church.
i did feel like i was in a rock concert, more than a church. i was on team there for 2 years i was struggling trying to step out in the calling the lord had for me.
i was getting up at 3:30am and getting to the theatre they rented out at 4:30am, i remember i was helping lifting up a mixing desk that cost £70’000 i mean how do you justify that.
i lifted out speaker after speaker, i left the team when i got a full time job.
i was asked to be a backing singer so many times, i turned them down 7 times, because i didnt like the way they treated their worship team.
the sydney guys were always favoured above the london guys, i saw i really young guy there who was keep being held back, he was a really good songwriter and worship leader.
he was always in the shadows of the well known songwriters, i decided not to give any of my song ideas to hillsong either.
i didnt want to sing their songs, when i have my own songs to sing. even through none of them have been published.
i was there from december 2003 until december 2013.
it centainly wasent the preaching i stayed there for, i noticed as well as many new people were coming in the fron door, many of the old memberswere leaving through the back door.
in other words anyone who is really serious, about their walk with jesus christ will not want to stay in a church like that.
Mrhatch, thats a great testimony that you have, and good answers. Also youre right that 70000 mixer is totally over the top.
anyway since your skilled at songwriting stuff, you’ve probably looked on http://www.cdbaby.com but maybe not, i like it but still it seems like most people never even heard of it.
i go on there occassionally checking out Christian music under “spiritual” and “moods”. The music there its sometimes a little less well produced than amazon.com, but there’s also less to have to sort through.. i have found a few great Christian mp3 songs on there though. but one bad thing on cdbaby is now some prosperity people are even showing up there like i keep seeing joseph prince there. sadly the prosperity gospel is proliferating everywhere these days.
wow that makes me sad. “in other words anyone who is really serious, about their walk with jesus christ will not want to stay in a church like that.”
I left in 2001 after 4 years in the Sydney branch. I became a Christian the year I started going there and read my bible so much that it only took a few yrs to realise what I was hearing wasn’t lining up with God’s word.
I hope you’ve found some Christ followers to fellowship with on a regular basis.
The Lord is so good. I’m so thankful he led me away from such a place.
The Narrowing Path said:
one of the thing i learnt about hillsong, is they dont like using words like sin or repent.
they used to say make your peace with god? what the heck is that.
jesus wants us to come as we are, jesus dosent want us to stay as we are. this is the mistake many gay people make, yes gay people should be excepted into the church. but if are not challenged about their lifestyle, or their is no change in their lifestyle.
and they are allowed to stay as they are, they wont allow themselves set free. and their is no transformation, no turnaround, and no change.
they are just caught up in religious bondage. its the same as straight couples who are living together without being married.they cannot stay as they are,
many churches today wont preach sin and repentance. because they dont want to offend ayone, they are afraid of losing people.
galatians 4:16 am i therefore become your enemy, because i tell you the truth.
galatians 5:11 and i brethren, if i preach circumcision, why do i yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
we cannot stay in our sin or live in sin. we cannot confess christ and be caught up in the things of this world.
“…many churches today wont preach sin and repentance. because they dont want to offend ayone, they are afraid of losing people.”
Hello again MrHatch I agree with you. Sin is the last thing they want to talk about from the pulpit. i can just imagine how many of the 20,000 people who attend Hillsong each weekend, would actually be left attending that church if there ever was a good rousing Gospel preaching session each week?
Would thousands become offended and leave? Would there be loud cries and protest about the meetings being “too religious”? Would those thousands who had been offended and vote witheir feet and leave, because their favouritemotivational and entertainment venue had suddenly turned back into t a church?
One ‘church’ I went to here in Brisbane some years ago, used to use Bono and his rock music group ‘U2’ in their sermons, giving Bono himself the role of “prophet”.
This was because he occasionally said things during his rock concerts that sounded a bit “Christian”. He seemed to have insights into both local and world affairs, but then again, so do many current affairs reporters on night time TV, but that doesn’t make them into biblical prophets.
In the last nine years here in Brisbane, I have witnessed the closure of four local churches.
Three of them had false doctrine and unbiblical practices as their mainstay (Hyper Faith and false prophesy) as well as other things. Two of them had their church facilities sold for huge sums of money and they no longer exist in this city.
The fourth one was the best as it spent most of its short 5 year life span seeking the lost, sharing the good news with them as wel as feeding and clothing them. It wasn’t perfect, but it was real, and the people who came there for a free breakfast each Sunday morning, were only too happy to stay for the short 45 minute meeting afterwards.
There was no pressure and they did not use food as bait. Souls were saved and people were affected for the Gospel. There was even a transgender couple who came for some 6 months (all the way from the Gold Coast???) once or twice a month.
Love was shown to them, without judgement. One of the women was gay, and the other ‘woman’ was a man who had undergone a sex change. (This situation really surprised all of us when it finally came to light!)
After hearing the Gospel preached to them for all that time, the woman repented of her lesbian lifestyle, and the woman/man went off to see a doctor about reversing his transgender status. The good news, preached in love, had brought about conviction to the point where both parties are now living normal liives,and have found another home church down on the coast.
If the pastor of that church had failed to preach the word, they would still be left in their sins today, and may well have faced a Christless eternity…
There’s an old saying in the circles I come from:
“Going to church won’t make you into a Christian, any more than going to McDonalds will make you into a hamburger…” You either are one, or you aren’t…”
Although I have seen people that eat too much mcdonalds – their body looks a bit like a hamburger. Hahaha
that is a very powerful testimony, the gospel was preached and 2 gay people were saved changed and set free for eternity.
powerful stuff, thats what we should all be living for, i wonder if most christians who confess christ really believe, i see all kinds of stuff in the church, but i dont see much faith.
i even have to keep on checking my heart, to make sure it dosent get hard with all the stuff i see.
i try to really guard my soul, as well.
as much as i love bono and u2, they are no more prophets than the current affairs reporters i really love that.
isnt it funny most christian music, came from the soft rock sound of u2 and coldplay.
its really a shame about brisbane, i have never been to australia. yet i read on the internet hillsong taking over the church in brisbane really put a lot of peoples noses out of joint.
im based in london, but most of our churches, apart from some of them all come from australia, new zealand, south africa and the united states.
Hi MrHatch – the Hillsong takeover of Garden City Church seemed like a snow job of sorts. The pastor was on several months leave, and the board decided that he would ‘resign’ when he came back – whether he wanted to or not.
Then it was put to a vote, but out of several thoused people who regularly attended, only 500 or 600 were qualified to vote and they were steered in the direction of Brian and Bobby Houston as the ‘new pastors’ by the board – allegedly.
There was a lot of controversy at the time as to why things happened that way, but a rather astute commentator, who I spied some 2 weeks ago now, said online, that it was probably due to problems in establishing new branch offices (“churches”) off shore.
It was possibly decided to curtail any overseas expansion plans for the time being, and pick some local marks and GCC was probably the largest mark on the map at that time. Sounds like another “business” decision to me, but I’m still wondering to this day whether it was God’s plan for that church, or it was just Brian’s plan instead?
When it comes to churches and individual ministries, we can only ever judge the tree by its fruit (fruit of the Holy spirit – Galatians 5:22). Some people think that fruit in a biblical sense is numbers – lots of people. Others think that it is material blessing – lots of money, big buildings, international travel etc.
Fruit is what the Lord develops in your life, in term of His nature, character and the Christian graces as listed in Galatias 5.
well said about the fruits of the spirit in galations 5:22-23 and ephesians 5:9 not being about wealth and richies but more about the nature and character of god in us. matthew 7:16 and matthew 7:20 also said you shall know them by their fruits.
i think the sacked garden city church brisbane pastor, or he could of been a hillsong pastor has been on this website.
im sure he said he was glad he stepped down as a pastor of hillsong brisbaine.
i think the hillsong controversy will go on and on. in england we dont only have hillsong london.
we also have hillsong surrey, hillsong kent, hillsong bermondsey, and now we have hillsong oxford. all these places apart from bermondsey being a very poor area are very wealthy cities and towns.
hillsong are not stupid, yes we have to wonder is this the lord leading it or is it indeed brian houstons business leadership?
there are 2 verses in proverbs 29 that really blew me away when it comes to leadership.
proverbs 29:12 if a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
proverbs 29:26 many seek the ruler’s favour: but every man’s judgement cometh from the lord.
“i think the sacked garden city church brisbane pastor, or he could of been a hillsong pastor has been on this website.
im sure he said he was glad he stepped down as a pastor of hillsong brisbaine”
I think there may have been 2 pastors involved in that story. The first one had been there for a long time. The second one was only there for the ‘transition’ period of 12 months, after which the Houstons assumed the senior leadership role.
Interesting verses from Proverbs MrHatch – written (under inspiration) by the wisest man who ever lived, and even he bacame a fool – now there’s a lesson for all of us…
It’s “officially” out there now, Ken Silva’s site gets a LOT of traffic….
MrHatch – there’s the link to an observer’s take on the takeover (no pun intended…) by Hillsong back in 2009. It speaks for itself.
And here’s the Courier Mail, Brisbane’s major daily newspaper’s report:
Just in case anyone had forgotten or lost track of where that info is…
wow such deception, i am amazed.
galatians 1:10 for do i now persuade men, or god? or do i seek to please men? for if i yet pleased men, i should not be the servant of christ.
ephesians 6:5-6 and colossians 3:22 tells us not to be menpleasers, but serve in singleness of heart.
matthew 15:9 but in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
mark 7:7 howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines and commandments of men.
yes as i said the church is been run like a company, and the church members are being treated like customers and resources.
1 corinthians 15:33 do not be decieved: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1 corinthians 3:18 let no man decieve himself.
2 timothy 3:13 but evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, decieving, and being decieved.
In an area of the Dominican Republic there is a common genetic condition that causes some children to be born with a vagina and are raised as girls, and then at around the age of 12 they grow a penis and then go into their teenage years as males. A few of the children who grow a penis have surgery to remain female. A US doctor did a study on the community, and it is reported here:
One of the conclusions in her study was:
“A final interesting observation that Imperato-McGinley made was that these boys, despite being brought up as girls, almost all showed strong heterosexual preferences. She concluded in her seminal paper that hormones in the womb matter more than rearing when it comes to your sexual orientation.”
Despite being girls in their pre-teenage years most of them acted somewhat like boys even though they were wearing dresses – they were born heterosexual males. Which means, I think, that some would also be born with other sexual orientations considering there are some who choose to stay as girls as they identify as female and would be attracted to men.
church watch has a very black and white view, so it will be interesting what you think about this.
Newtaste – becoming the master of the “squirrel!” moment? Constantly distracted by something else and following the “squirrel!” thought?
Or is it his intent to simply hijack the threads and distract the attention away from Brian Houston and Hillsong.
It doesn’t really matter which rabbit hole Newtaste goes down CW, as long as we can ‘put a lid on it’ – and keep him down there – at least for a while, but he is the master of obfuscation and distraction, I’ll give him that…
There is too much at stake to allow for such distractions, with some 50 million plus people now under Hillsong’s global influence. We must continue to expose the Hill$ong cult and do whatever it takes so that the spiritually blind will have chance to see what an aberrant group of false prophets they really are.
The issue of homosexuals in the church is not one of law – I believe that Jesus has the same compassion for them as He does for any other kind of sinner, but they must be challenged with the Gospel and show signs of genuine repentance, like any other sinner, if they want to be considered as members of Christ’s church.
God is not a respecter of persons, and, regardless of their ‘gender identity’, they will have to stand alone before Jesus Christ on judgement day and give an account of themselves.
Apollo – not of all of Newtaste’s comment are approved. Just the “tip of the iceberg” filters through. Obfuscation and distraction overload.
“Hillsong’s global influence.”
More like Hillsong’s global spell.
“but they must be challenged with the Gospel and show signs of genuine repentance,”
Not only that, but they must also stop trying to force the acceptance of their sin as ‘normal behavior’ and ‘worthy of special rights’ upon everyone else.
Newtaste, I’m just not sure what you are raving on about? How can a ‘common genetic defect’ in one tiny country, affect the gender recognition of the entire populace of the Dominican Republic..
What you are stating here may be a medical fact (due to some genetic malfunctions of the human body within a given population,) and that I won’t deny, but to then use that ‘fact’ to try and create doubt about every other question in relation to a person’s true gender is unjustifiable.
There is a similar situation that occurs in ‘effeminate’ men. They are not “gay” as such, but are merely lacking the correct balance in the male hormone called testosterone. Fortnightly injections of the male hormone restore the masculinity of effeminate men on their journey back to being masculine once more.
Once again Newtaste, your assessment of a situation has produced unnecessary “over the top” reactions…
jackson w. roygo said:
And once again newtaste, how does that lessen all of Brian Houston’s false teachings and immoral actions? How does that lessen the horrors Frank Houston committed? You continuously bring up anything else to deflect from addressing THE real problem
— Brian Houston.
We are slaves to Christ and His Gospel.
You are a slave to Brian Houston. He has held your mind captive for years.
church watch totally missed my point, because your obsession is Brian. You posted drivell by a couple of pastors who claim that homosexuality is a choice, yet here is recent evidence that it is not.
You fail to be objective because all you seem to think about is hating Brian Houston.
Apparently OUR obsession is Brian?
“church watch totally missed my point,”
Channelling Brian Houston: I was misunderstood, I was misquoted, I was taken out of context, I didn’t mean what I said, I didn’t say what I meant, you’re just bitter / jealous / angry / haters / blind / Pharisees / legalistic / religious, and so on, ad nauseam.
The student has indeed become just like his teacher, a pathetic excuse of a pastor who has to spend so much time offering pathetic excuses in defence of his fake gospel. How very sad.
“You fail to be objective because all you seem to think about is hating Brian Houston.”
Oh dear, projection from the “pastor’s” prince of protectors! The truth of the matter is this, newtaste: *you* fail to be objective because all you seem to think about is worshipping the fraud Brian Houston.
“You fail to be objective because all you seem to think about is hating Brian Houston.”
Why do you you hate Messianic Jews?
And what about all of the ‘ex gays’ who have left the ‘gay community’ and have recovered from their lifestyle of open sin Newtaste?
Do you mean to say that they escaped the ravages of homosexuality without making a choice???
“You posted drivell by a couple of pastors who claim that homosexuality is a choice, yet here is recent evidence that it is not.”
More of Newtaste’s false twisting of information. What Newtaste has pointed out is only a LIMITED amount of cases. How many gays can claim that condition? Under 1/10,000th of 1 percent?
How many like this have you ever known? I have met HUNDREDS of gays, however not 1 propagated this situation. All were just “proud to be gay.”
However, Newtaste is attempting to extrapolate using that LIMITED condition/population, and grant moral immunity to the entire homosexual community based on this.
Brian Houston has his mind control program, Newtaste follows suit with his own sad brainwashing program.