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anthony venn-brown, Brian Houston, gay, gay-affirming, grooming, Hillsong, Hillsong College, hillsong gay-affirming, homosexuality, houston, venn-brown
Queerstianity: A group of people that supposedly push no political or religious agenda but “share” their philosophy of tolerance and love onto others.”
(Source: Urban Dictionary [slightly edited])
Brian Houston of Hillsong Church is slowly grooming his congregation to embrace the false “Gay Christianity” doctrine. To understand why this doctrine is such a blatant attack on the Christian faith please read our article below. We are aware how sensitive this Christian issue is and wish to deal with it respectfully. James White in the below article thoroughly refutes this false teaching.
Hillsong grooming its members to embrace Gay Christianity (Part 1)
We would advise you to read our previous articles on this issue in Hillsong.
Hillsong grooming its members to embrace Queerstianity (Part 2)
Hillsong grooming its members to embrace Queerstianity (Part 3)
Apprising reports,
HOMOSEXUALITY REMOVED FROM HILLSONG COLLEGE STUDENT HANDBOOK
In Apprising Ministries pieces like Tsunami of Pro-Homosexual Books from “Gay Christians” and Supporters and Dan Haseltine of CCM band Jars of Clay in support of Homosexual Marriage I’ve been warning youconcerning the powerful pro-homosexual lobby.Originally, as I pointed out a few years ago e.g. in Doug Pagitt and the Emerging Church Gay Agenda and Homopressive as Jay Bakker, it was given a boost beyond just the liberal mainline denominations right into mainstream evangelicalism through the Emerging Church.
This lobby’s relentless propaganda has resulted recently in World Vision to hire “Gay Christians in Same-Sex Marriages”; though the very next day they reversed that decision when they, like Haseltine, realized that the average evangelical’s not quite ready for this…yet.
For years I’ve been covering the issues surrounding those, like Jay Bakker, who’re working within evangelicalism to make the deviant and sinful lifestyle of having sexual relations with another of the same sex, i.e homosexuality, a viable one for the regenerated Christian.
Such as these have already succeeded in capturing much of its younger sectors to their perverted position. Now with the influx of feelings-oriented charismania and Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism spreading throughout the mainstream, “soon” much of the rest will also follow.
Evangelicalism is set to pay a huge price for turning away from the proper Christian spirituality of sola Scriptura and toward the subjective spirituality of personal mysticism. It’s only a matter of time before more and more people cave-in on homosexuality. Perhaps, we have one more example.
As you might imagine, Hillsong International Leadership College (HILC) is another one of the extensions of the highly influential Word Faith outfit known as Hillsong Church in Australia, where pastor Brian Houston and pastrix Bobbie Houston are the “Senior Pastors.”
You can see below that the Houstons are also co-Presidents of HILC:
(source)
Under the subheading We believe in your God-given potential we’re told at the HILC website:
We invite you to prayerfully consider how investing one or more years here at Hillsong could prepare you for your God-given destiny. We passionately believe in the potential of all people, so we invite you to come to beautiful Australia to embark upon a life changing time of preparation.
We exist to champion the cause of the local church and see people reach their God-given potential, thus changing the world with the gospel of Jesus Christ. We look forward to having you join us for what will be an amazing journey. (source)
This professed Christian perspective is significant as I inform you that homosexuality has now been removed from the HILC Student Handbook (SH). It’s also important to note that the SH makes it clear that:
Any behaviour that contravenes the Student Code of’ Conduct will result in disciplinary action (Ref: Student Behaviour and Course Progress Policy). Any behavior that compromises the welfare of other students will result in immediate termination of enrolment [sic].
So obviously, SH lays out what the student of HILC must adhere to in order to remain a student at the college. As we come to the Student Code of Conduct, on pg.13 of this HILC SH, it used to read (click to enlarge):
(source, and hard copy on file)
Now, this prior HILC Student Code of Conduct also informs us that:
One of the College’s most important goals is to facilitate the growth and development of Christian character in line with biblical principles. It is expected that College students live in such a manner that brings glory to Christ in their behavior and attitudes both in and outside of College settings. Therefore each student is expected to…
Nothing out of the ordinary, so far, in that these are the kinds of things we’d expect at a college whose goal “is to facilitate the growth and development of Christian character in line with biblical principles.” This would all be consistent with bringing “glory to Christ.”
Well, as of this writing, a check on pg. 13 of the HILC student handbook reveals that the word homosexuality has since been removed (click to enlarge):
(source)
Curiously, in addition, the beginning section of the Student Code of Conduct has also now been expanded to include the following paragraph:
Since students are also being trained for Christian ministry, and are engaged in ministry as part of their course, it is expected that they will conduct themselves in a manner consistent with the moral, ethical and behavioural standards expected of Christian leaders and ministers, and the churches in which they are ministering and being trained. With these issues in mind, the College has developed a Student’ Code of Conduct, which reflects the leadership required by the Australian Christian Churches (Assemblies of God in Australia) and other similar denominations. (source)
With the omission of the word homosexuality from the Code itself, the closing section re. “behaviour that contravenes the Student Code of’ Conduct,” also contains this additional section:
Since it reflects the standards expected by churches of those in ministry, behaving and ministering consistently with the Student Code of Conduct is also a requirement for several assessments across the College’s courses, especially Practicum Passports.Breaching this Code will result in a student being assessed as Not Yet Competent for the relevant subjects / units. A student will subsequently need to provide verifiable evidence of meeting the requirements of the Code of Conduct for a reasonable period in order to achieve competence. (source)
Again, we would certainly expect this from a Christian college; only now, it would seem the practice of homosexuality isn’t included as something which would “result in a student being assessed as Not Yet Competent,” etc. The question becomes why HILC made this change.
You wouldn’t think that homosexual relations would be consistent with the admonition that HILC students “will conduct themselves in a manner consistent with the moral, ethical and behavioural standards expected of Christian leaders and ministers, and the churches” they are involved with.
In closing this, for now, it could be we find the reason for the change that’s been made is found in the article Hillsong: Pastor Brian Houston talks about the pink elephant in the room from just about a year ago by “a proud gay man,”1 and aggressive LGBT activist, Anthony Venn-Brown.
Lord willing, another time I’ll have more on Australian activist Venn-Brown, author of A Life of Unlearning, but for now I’ll just tell you his bio informs us that he’s a:
Former leader in the Assemblies of God and regular preacher in Australia’s mega churches. Anthony now lives as a proud gay man, committed to educating others about the issues of faith and sexuality. (source)
In 2011 the apostate Anthony Venn-Brown,2 who also goes by the moniker Gay Ambassador, would launch something called Ambassadors & Bridge Builders International (ABBl). Returning now to Venn-Brown’s aforementioned article, he tells us:
Contrary to popular opinion, homosexuality is not a topic often mentioned from Hillsong pulpits; for or against. On Sunday 18 August 2013, Hillsong’s Senior Pastor, Brian Houston, preached a message that was broadcast to all Hillsong congregations around the world in over 100 services. What was significant about this sermon was that during the message he publicly began a conversation about the Hillsong churches need to come to grips with the ‘gay issue’. (source, bold his)
He then goes on to tell us more about his personal agenda, which is the very same one that more and more LGBT activists here in the United States also have in store for weak evangelical churches:
When working with churches, leaders and denominations I let them know about the 10 separate issues they will face in order to become not just a welcoming but also accepting and affirming church. This is not a once off meeting or workshop it is a journey that will take several years to complete. (source)
Sadly, because people won’t believe what Scripture says, this is all part of the coming same-sex storm within mainstream evangelicalism. And I find myself beginning to wonder if Brian Houston and Hillsong coming “to grips with” homosexuality means moving closer toward its acceptance…
Further reading
- THE SIN OF HOMOSEXUALITY IS DIFFERENT
- JAY BAKKER CRITIQUES KEN SILVA AT RELIGION DISPATCHES
- JESUS ALREADY DEFINED MARRIAGE FOR HIS CREATION
Endnotes
- http://on.fb.me/RNQvEo, accessed 5/13/14. ↩
- By his own admission Venn-Brown has turned away from the historic orthodox Christian faith telling us that he once “was a leader in the Assemblies of God denomination (now Australian Christian Churches) and a high profile preacher in the largest Pentecostal churches of Australia and overseas,,, [H]e became a Christian at 18 believing that God would provide the answers he was looking for. In the church”…
Venn-Brown offers more proof of his apostasy listing that he was formerly an:- Ordained Assemblies of God minister; pioneered several churches
- Founded Youth Alive NSW and the Australian Evangelists Association
- Organised and led study tours to cutting edge churches in the USA
- Crossed denominational barriers and was the first Pentecostal appointed to the Lausanne Congress for World Evangelization Australian Board
- Founder and Director of Every Believer Evangelism involved in equipping individuals and churches in the areas of evangelism through training and crusades
- Evangelist, conference speaker and popular preacher in the mega churches of Australia as well as overseas
- Influenced paradigm shifts within the Assemblies of God that contributed to denominational growth: http://bit.ly/1srBbbw, accessed 5/13/14. ↩
Source: By Ken Silva, HOMOSEXUALITY REMOVED FROM HILLSONG COLLEGE STUDENT HANDBOOK, Apprising, http://apprising.org/2014/05/13/homosexuality-removed-from-hillsong-college-student-handbook/, Published May 13/05/2014. (Accessed 14/05/2014.)
Hillsong Church Watch 
The Hillsong College application form for 2014/15 still has the homosexual clause. https://hillsong.com/media/717691/Hillsong-College-Application-Form-2014.pdf
Newtaste is absolutely correct. A simple search for the current application form reveals the following information:
Student Code of Conduct (in the application form)
One of the College’s most important goals is to facilitate the growth and development of Christian character in line with biblical principles. It is expected that College students live in such a manner that brings glory to Christ in their behaviour and attitudes both in and outside of College settings.
Therefore each student is expected to: Abstain from biblically immoral practices including; drunkenness, stealing, slanderous or profane language, dishonesty, occult practices and sexual sins (premarital sex, pornography, adultery and homosexuality) or any other behaviour that is considered detrimental to Christian character and witness.
Avoid attitudes (such as greed, jealousy, pride, bitterness, needless anger and discrimination) and behaviour (such as gossip, divisiveness and complaining) that disrupts the unity and health of the College body.
Show respect and consideration for other members of the student body and their property.
The Student Code of Conduct Booklet:
• Abstain from biblically immoral practices including; drunkenness, stealing, slanderous or profane language, dishonesty, occult practices and sexual sins (premarital sex, pornography, adultery) or any other behaviour that’s considered detrimental to Christian character and witness.
Two different documents, in fact.
Nothing has changed. They are separate documents that are part of the same application and information pack, online and freely available to anyone who downloads them.
No ‘grooming’. No movement towards gay lifestyle. Clear policy on what constitutes sexual sins.
Perhaps churchwatcher has other information which contradicts this. We’ll await his confirmation either way.
The student code of conduct booklet has omitted homosexuality, although the student code of conduct in the application form has included homosexuality.
What can I say to all of the above folks? One thing I can say, is that if Hillsong does adopt the ‘soft’ approach to the “gay issue” it certainly won’t stop with them.
Currently there are hundreds of smaller churches across the Australian landscape that are already ‘cloning’ themselves on the Hillsong image and ethos. It only stands to reason that at least some of them may also adopt that ‘soft’ approach too.
Apparently Mr Venn-Brown has backslidden away from everything that he once held dear. This also seems to be the case when it comes to his morals. It’s one thing to deny the faith and then “just get on with your life” but it’s another thing entirely to adopt a distinct ‘anti’ stance on everything that a person once lived and taught.
I’m just wondering what happened to him? What caused this major 180 degree turn from the paths of righteousness, to the pit of licentiousness? How did Satan manage to turn so prominent a person in church circles, into a seemingly raging, gay, antichrist inpsired person?
And will he be the last one to be turned in such a manner, or are there still more church leaders, who are to “come out” and declare that they are ‘gay’ too?
Whether or not Hillsong has/will remove that particular requirement from its Student Handbook, the fact remains that to invite anyone living any kind of sinful, unrepentant lifestye or relationship into the church, as if they were a part of God’s family, is a grossly poor judgement call.
It flies in the face of some 2,000 years of Christian doctrine and practice, to the contrary. God’s word does not support an acceptance of any sinful practice or lifestyle – period.
How does this deception come into the church?
“1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.”
(1 Timothy 4:1 – 3)
Some may say that this scriture passage is irrelevant, because it does not mention gay or other sinful sex acts. The point is, that anyone who teaches contrary to Bible doctrine is misleading God’s people, and not just in the area of human sexuality.
It was God who instituted the marriage act himself, between Adam and Eve, back in the garden of Eden:
“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” (Genesis 2:24)
Has God changed his mind since that event? Can anyone stand up and say:
“God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve?”
I can say amen to that, and still have mercy on “Adam and Steve” and show unto them the way of repentance – the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ.
It was the apostle paul who stated here, that all food taken by believers was to be received with thanksgiving. To oppose either of these points was to be seen as a person who “had their conscience seared with a hot iron”. A person who manipulated what scripture clearly states, and to then exchange the truth of God for a lie.
In other words, they were people without a conscience. They had no conviction of God the Holy Ghost on their lives that would prevent false doctrine from being promoted and practiced – that is the point.The principle of the scripture, rightly divided, stands, regardless of the issues.
One last point here – isn’t it strange, that the very “church” that actually forbids marriage to certai people, and the eating of certain foods at certain times of the year, is now facing worldwide reproach for heinous acts of pedophillia against its once frail and vulnerable victims?
Does any other “church” really want to embrace the kind of false doctrines that will ensure that kind of an outcome in years to come? Really?
They have removed it from the handbook, however it’s still on the application form.
Thanks for that update Annette – I think that the issue goes far beyond what they have or haven’t printed for the student’s consumption. When such abberant changes are considered and implemented in these emergent churches, then it is God’s very word that is under fire.
None of what has been said so far is a part of any self righteousness on the part of the blog, or most of its regular posters, but it is necessary to challenge that which is so obviously opposed to the truth of God, and His precepts.
Of course, changing the ‘goal posts’ for students would have a more longer term effect, in that they would graduate from the College with a much different outlook than their Pentecostal forebares, as they were sent out into various fields of endeavour.
Change, in terms of acceptance, could just as easily happen gradually, over time, without too many people noticing it at first, and complaining about it too much at all.
Two Code of Conduct sources…..
Applications are kept on record at the college, the other given to the students, is that right?
If I may play devil’s advocate here – a potential student has the application, skims through without reading all the fine print (and who hasn’t done that), signs off and submits.
The accepted student is given a Code of Conduct booklet to keep.
Two sources, two different codes of conduct – oops, perhaps the students have heard about the omission in the student code booklet !!!
Remember Ben Gresham claims a large number of gay people attend Hillsong?
Hillsong College may find themselves in an awkward position bringing a discipline charge against a student who may just be a (practicing) homosexual.
After all it’s certainly been left out of the booklet – why??
Hillsong should address this “glitch”. It’s very easy to do, isn’t it? Especially now it’s been noticed by outside sources.
Ben Gresham based his figures on the ABS percentages, but most gays wouldn’t touch a church with a barge-pole. I think he’s being optimistic there, but it’s irrelevant to the situation anyway.
churchwatcher has written four posts which appear to be founded on an incorrect premise.
The current application form requests the student to agree to avoid all sexual sin including homosexuality.
It may be that it is revised in the future, but for now, that should be it.
Anything else is pure speculation.
‘Apprising’, if as influential as you state, should be informed as soon as possible to revise his claims also.
Gordy, I don’t think that anything else is pure speculation at all. The fact that they have removed the homosexuality clause in the student handbook is not a minor detail at all. The student handbook is what the students will read, and relate to. As for the application form, as Berean said, how many people read all the fine print in the application form. Irrespective of that, the omission in the student handbook, is taking away from the word of God, it is rebellion against God and His Word. God says homosexuality is an abomination. Now that’s a big deal, because God really doesn’t like it. Doesn’t matter what we think, it’s what God commands from us – that’s what matters. We should have the courage to stand up for Gods Word, no matter what anyone else thinks.
I could speculate that Berean could become a catholic charismatic, and it is plausible in the great scheme of things in the world of surmising issues, but I think it would be naive to pursue the possibility.
That is about where the speculation on this is at present.
Reporting should be about fact and evidence not speculation. That, then, is opinion.
“Reporting should be about fact and evidence not speculation. That, then, is opinion.”
^ And that coming from Steve.
Incidentally, premarital sex in Australia would include homosexual and lesbian sex since gay marriage is not an option, and marriage is still defined as being between a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others, so it’s easily covered.
Gordy, I don’t think that the term premarital sex is meant to relate to homosexuals at all. You are just playing with words.
I agree it could be seen as semantics. However, as you point out, the application form states no homosexual sex, so it’s not really an issue.
Well it is an issue, Gordy, as it’s giving a double message. Why has it been omitted from the student handbook? It should be in both the application form and the handbook. God speaks very strongly on this issue, so omitting it in the handbook is not on!
Hang on. If I apply to become a student and sign in the application form that I will not engage in homosexual sex I have already covenanted with the college to behave myself. As soon as I sign my name I have agreed it is sexual sin, and I am liable to dismissal if I break the rule.
If the only sex I can have is within my own marriage and not with a person outside that marriage, then it includes all forms of sex.
That is not semantics. That is as clear as day.
And the premise in churchwatcher’s and ‘Apprising’s’ article as well as the headline is wrong.
A young (gay) person, having signed the document not to commit a homosexual act, goes ahead and “indulges” in a sinful act, gets caught out and comes under discipline.
Can you imagine the media storm if that young person goes public with the whole disciplinary process?
Sadly I’m cynical enough to believe that’s exactly what a gay person, wanting their lifestyle accepted as “biblical’, would do deliberately to draw fire on a church organization – it’s happened before.
But Gordy, it’s not about the homosexual students we are talking about, primarily, it’s about the fact that Hillsong are being so ambiguous about their stand on homosexuality. The omission from the student handbook is a prime example.
Well, you may be correct in your cynicism about the gay agenda, Berean, but that is hardly the fault of the college. These are the days we live in. Everything is being challenged.
But the article in the post is wrong and should be corrected.
Why, Gordy, is the article in the post wrong. As I said before – the omission of homosexuality as a sexual sin, in the student handbook, was on purpose – why?
Perhaps “Apprising” should just include the two sources and ask the question why are the two different?
Gordy, there ARE more gay people attending both C3 and Hillsong than we like to admit, and sadly sources tell me they are not “innocent’ in their private lives.
If sites like this and others bring about a greater voice for the gospel to be preached to the lost homosexual, adulterer, the lost sinners in these churches where most (not all) have dumbed-down the true gospel message, that’s a good thing
Last night I listened to Justin Brierley’s “Unbelievable” podcast with a debate between Steve Chalke from Oasis Trust (& Oasis Church) and Andrew Wilson from New Frontiers. They covered the scriptural and pastoral issues, on both sides of the church, on the homosexual debate.
Seriously, Gordy, have a listen – it broke my heart to hear Chalke set his own agenda for one small segment of our culture. and it opened my eyes even more to the cultural firestorm on the horizon for Australia as the gay community try to “create their narrative” and marginalize the Christian community. And as much as Chalke tried to “shout” his opponent, the true message came across from a really godly man, Andrew Wilson.
I would recommend everyone here listen to this particular program and see just how far down the track this agenda is forming its stranglehold.
http://www.premier.org.uk/unbelievable
He who defines the terms wins the argument? That’s where it’s headed….
Perhaps ‘Apprising” should realise their error, apologise and take a wait and see attitude.
Read Haggai 2:1-9. It came up in a lunch time Bible Study today. God was speaking to Israel about the Temple, but it could easily be a prophecy for today.
“Be strong all you people of the land and work; for I am with you,” says the Lord of Hosts. “According to the Word I covenanted with you she you came out of Egypt, so my Spirit remans among you; do not fear!”
Just get on with preaching the gospel and building the ‘Temple’, the Household of God, the Church, remember His Covenant, the New Covenant, and the Spirit of God is with us, so fear not!” He brought us out of Egypt )the world) and will sustain us and the work will be shaken. The only thing to stand in the shaking of the Lord will be those who are on the Rock, so keep at it!
If God is for us, who can stand against us?
http://www.christianitymagazine.co.uk/bibledebate
Have we misread the Bible? Steve Chalke & Andrew Wilson
Video debates and articles
Steve Chalke is a leading and sometimes controversial voice in the evangelical Church. In a recent article for Christianity magazine he has argued that we need to rethink the way we approach scripture and cease to think of it as ‘inerrant’ but as a progressive ‘conversation’ with God that continues today.
In a series of 4 discussions Andrew Wilson of New Frontiers engages with Chalke as they address issues concerning biblical infallibility, Old Testament morality, atonement and homosexuality.
If the above links are deemed as off-topic, just consider them as a warning of what’s lies ahead for the church in Australia, at the same remembering…..
1 Peter 3:14-16 “But even if you should suffer for righteousness’ sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled, but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.”
But Hillsong are not telling their students that it is OK to be gay. They are not embracing gay Christianity. They are not grooming their members for sexual impropriety.
That is the topic. That is what churchwatcher and ‘Apprising’ should be addressing today.
Then why have they omitted the word homosexuality from the list of sins that college students must refrain from, from their college handbook? This has been done on purpose, what is the reasoning behind this omission? If it’s just a typo then it would have been corrected by now.
I’m just wondering if this ‘sudden change’ is all to do with money?
It’s one thing to get government accreditation without having to change your belief system, but when you apply for actual government funding, all of that can change drastically.
I remember 20 years ago when certain ‘churches’ applied for SAAP funding (Supported Accomodation = hostels). The government basically said “less religion equals more money” – that was the formula for success, and so most church organisations that ran hostels, got rid of their church staff.
They replaced them with social workers (3 year degree university graduates,) who reorganised those hostels according to the government’s red tape “guidelines” and in many of them nowdays, there’s very little in the way of spiritual input. No Gospel…
http://www.community.nsw.gov.au/annual_report09/stronger_saap.htm
The above link goes to a typical SAAP government statistical report.
Some hostels are fortunate to have a visiting chaplaincy service (and some of those are quite good,) while others have lost the respect of their former inmates and the wider community, as they sold out the Gospel and the chance to reach the lost, and all because of extra cash.
If this is all down to a typo then fix it, if not, then admit it – come clean and make known your ‘new’ policy in relation to gays and membership/ministry within Hillsong…
There’s a bigger picture playing out behind the scenes here – that’s the problem.
Gordy, I have been watching your posts for sometime. All we want Hillsong and Huston to do is follow the biblical text on the issue, which they are not. Huston has form for twisting God’s word to suit his agenda. A term commonly referred too as Eisegesis. If Huston simply followed the word of God, Called homosexuals to repentance for their sin, (yes like every other sin) and allowed the saving Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ to be preached from his pulpit then it would be a non issue. But he doesn’t. Repentance is a word that seems to be lost from Mr. Huston’s vocabulary. Hustons seems to be content preaching an egocentric gospel and not the one that I read and Study. Christ Crucified for my Sins and transgressions is not the message I hear from Mr. Huston.
The claims in churchwatcher and ‘Apprising’s’ posts are clearly wrong and churchwatcher should address this. That is what newtaste and I are pointing out.
You simply can’t make up things about people, even if you have issues with them.
churchwatcher and ‘Apprising’ have made a mistake. If it is a genuine error that is one thing, but if they say and do nothing about that is another matter.
I have no interest in the gay lobby infiltrating churches to ply their agenda and will continue to resist any attempts.
I agree with Hillsong’s application form, which students have to sign, that homosexual sex is a sin.
But I don’t see how it is helpful for churchwatcher and ‘Apprising’ to persist with a wrong report. The longer it is left unattended to the more scurrilous it looks.
Don’t agree – it’s their two sources and they’re different. They should fix it – it’s simple to do.
The mere fact that students are asked to declare that they will to engage in homosexual sex because it is a sin refutes the claims in the post.
That is the point.
Should have read:
‘The mere fact that students are asked to declare that they will not engage in homosexual sex because it is a sin refutes the claims in the post.
That is the point.’
Ok – let’s come at it from a different angle.
Does the gay community have an agenda to force churches like Hillsong to concede that the gay lifestyle as acceptable and “biblical” – thus allowing gays to attend church with impunity?
Are guys/gays like Ben Gresham and Anthony Venn-Brown attempting to “groom” Hillsong?
And of course the answer is yes….
Would Gordy prefer the title of the articles to say “Are homosexuals grooming Hillsong to embrace queerstianity”?
“@gordy “Hang on. If I apply to become a student and sign in the application form that I will not engage in homosexual sex I have already covenanted with the college to behave myself. As soon as I sign my name I have agreed it is sexual sin, and I am liable to dismissal if I break the rule”.
Well…Let’s be honest ..if you have ‘convenated’ with Hillsong and might be ‘liable to dismissal’..it isn’t really the Biblical Version is it? It really isn’t too scary.
On the other hand, if the hillsong ‘convenant’ repeated the Holy Word and described it as an Abomination and a Holy God does NOT accept the practice..That could be a hillsong social Deal-Breaker.
Of course Berean, there’s the other scenario, alluded to by you earlier, which is that a ‘gay’ person could fly under the radar of both the application form and handbook (regardless of what they did or didn’t say in print,) and then after passing the College course, complain if Hillsong didn’t facilitate their pathway into a recognised ministry position. This would then become a test case and may well set a precedent at law.
If Hillsong doesn’t want to face a lawsuit for discrimination, or an investigation by HEREOC, then the easiest way to avoid that would be to state their position in regard to gay people within Hillsong and any future ministry potential as plainly and as clearly as language can describe. They would just have to state that it is never going to happen, so that there won’t be any ‘disappointments’ after College is over…
They would simply have to show that the Bible teaches that homosexual practice is a sin and that it is an unacceptable lifestyle for professing Christians, including those in ministry, to pursue and live out. Wouldn’t that be far easier than all the ducking and weaving after these people graduate, with any serious complaint (with a lawsuit attached) would inevitably lead to a capitulation and compromise at some near future date?
I think that some of these prominent false ministries may be ‘grooming’ the emergent church to the fact that this is the “next step” in their agenda of completely destroying any form of Godly Christianity, and replacing it with a worldly Laodicean church that is poor, blind and naked:
Poor – in its exegesis of scripture on the relevant points that would protect it,
Blind – in that it cannot see what is being done to it already by the advocates of sin,
Naked – for one and all to see, as it stumbles around like a drunk, from one doctrinal disaster to another…
So true. Let your yes be yes and your no be no, anything else comes from the evil one.
‘Of course Berean, there’s the other scenario, alluded to by you earlier, which is that a ‘gay’ person could fly under the radar of both the application form and handbook (regardless of what they did or didn’t say in print,) and then after passing the College course, complain if Hillsong didn’t facilitate their pathway into a recognised ministry position. This would then become a test case and may well set a precedent at law.’
Well that is total speculation.
So far you are avoiding the issue that churchwatcher and ‘Apprising’ have not referred to the application form which clearly indicates that homosexual sex s a sin and students are not to engage in it.
If a gay activist slips into the college and does what you say, that is hardly reflective of Hillsong, but of the actions of that individual.
Newtaste has pointed out that Hillsong has, in the application form, referred to homosexual sex as sin. This is what you and churchwatcher should now be addressing, not speculative worse case scenarios.
Well they should fix the typo in the student booklet.
@ Gordy – I thought I had. And I agree, it’s hardly reflective of Hillsong (at the moment).
I think you’re splitting hairs, there is a correction that needs to be addressed by Hillsong College administration, not by C3CW or Apprising Ministries, (at the moment).
@ Gordy/Steve above
“If a gay activist slips into the college and does what you say, that is hardly reflective of Hillsong, but of the actions of that individual.”
Or maybe it’s simply due to a total lack of discernment on the part of the College staff? Or then again, it could just be “company policy”?
You obviously think that a piece of paper is capable of stopping any and all would be ‘problems’ both now, and in the future.
Of course, these gay ‘college kids’ wouldn’t be sneaking around after hours and weekends, doing whatever they darn well liked, now, would they Steve? Because that almighty application form would prevent them from doing so…
Steve Liebmann gave one of the tributes at the funeral of former Nine and Seven news reader Ian Ross a couple of weeks ago. Ross had previously been married, and he had three daughters and a few grandchildren. Ross was in a gay relationship for some 20 years up until his death. During his tribute to Ross at the all spiritual inclusive funeral, Liebmann talked as if Ross was in Heaven with God. Liebmann, a Jew, didn’t give any indication that thought that his friend was anywhere else. The news reports I saw, heard and read all potrayed Ross and his partner as a normal couple. I didn’t notice anything that even mentioned he was ‘gay’. There was no controversy at all.
If you think Hillsong is leading some push to normalise gay relationships in the community you would be wrong. It already happened years before, with the last months of Ian Ross’s life and his funeral clearly showing it.
Just because it’s already happening years before doesn’t excuse Hillsong from being so ambiguous about what God calls an abomination.
@ newtaste – what does that sad event have to do with what is happening throughout the church world today? Steve Liebmann may be Jewish but is he secular or orthodox?
Have you heard of Matthew Vines? Do you know how many churches in the States have come on board and accepted this “gay agenda”?
@Newtaste
“If you think Hillsong is leading some push to normalise gay relationships in the community you would be wrong. It already happened years before, with the last months of Ian Ross’s life and his funeral clearly showing it.”
I think the point here, is that if Hillsong holds to sound doctrine – at all in this matter – it will make its position abundantly clear, in that it does not support, condone or allow homosexuals to gain a membership within its churches, nor does it allow them to attend Bible College with a view to gaining a ministry position at some future date.
Such a position would be Bible based, and not based on any nebulous hate campaign (which I will have no part in,) and at the same time, showing them the love of God – which calls them to repentance.
No one has said that gay people can’t come to church and hear the Gospel message, but they cannot be seen as church members, unless they have repented of their sinful lifestyle – with fruit evidencing that repentance – and that goes for any other sinner, that is seeking the Saviour – there are no favourites with God…
There is an elephant in the room and Steve Rowe is complaining about another person’s footprints.
Not only are you straining at the gnat Steve, you’ve swallowed the elephant.
If you call me Steve can I call you by your name or will you edit it out?
Don’t you have an explanation of what Newtaste has revealed? Will you address this issue?
Can you admit that the current application form does actually state that homosexual sex is sin?
“If you call me Steve can I call you by your name or will you edit it out?”
Why hide your growing fame through your alias? You seem to be against people using them anyway. Deal with it if you do not want us to change your alias to “SteveRoweTheHypocrite”.
It’s funny watching C3ChurchWatch critics or C3 members try to guess the identity of the person who runs the site. They seem to think that they are in Australia… No matter what name is guessed, we remove the name.
“Don’t you have an explanation of what Newtaste has revealed? Will you address this issue?”
We will make this tiny update just for you Steve.
In the mean time – it’s about time you stop focusing on the gnats and explain this camel:
http://c3churchwatch.com/2014/05/11/phil-pringles-kong-job-at-presence-2014-part-1/
But the student handbook has omitted it. They should fix their typo then.
We will make this tiny update just for you
Thanks for that churchwatcher. Glad to be of help.
Hat-tip to newtaste, of course.
Austin, I don’t totally agree with you. If gay people come to church and are accepting that homosexuality is sin and they are struggling and believing that God will deliver them and transform them then they should be seen as part of the family. It’s not a club, it’s Gods family.
I’m a sinner, and God lets me go to church, He even calls me His daughter!
Of course that’s true Annette, we all struggle with sin – it’s the cry for acceptance as a “practicing” homosexual that’s the issue. And it’s what the gay agenda is all about. Lifestyle acceptance, but you know that.
It’s when the true gospel of grace is preached in all its fullness, of Christ’s redeeming work and the call to repentance that’s institutes change. And yes, it’s a process, that moves forward with conviction.
Again I ask the question, if it’s true that many gay people attend these churches for years as theyclaim they have, why haven’t they come under conviction? Because the gospel isn’t properly preached.
“It’s a story involving a pastor, a pretty ordinary local church, and a Bible.”
As Rosaria Butterfield testifies ““I tried to toss the Bible and all of its teachings in the trash — I really tried,” she says. “But I kept reading it, reading it not just for pleasure, but reading it because I was engaged in a research program trying to refute the religious right from a lesbian feminist perspective. . . . After my second or third, maybe fourth, pass through the entire Bible something started to happen. The Bible got to be bigger inside me than I. And it absolutely overflowed into my world. I really fought against it. And then one Sunday morning, no different from any other Sunday morning, I rose from the bed of my lesbian lover, and an hour later I sat in a church pew. I went there very conspicuous of the fact that I didn’t fit in. But I really had to confront this God.”
http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/from-radical-lesbian-to-redeemed-christian
The difference for you Annette is that you have made a public confession of your faith in Christ and have repented of your old lifestyle – that is not the issue.
I have stated previously that there is a difference between a repentant gay who struggles with their past sin from time to time, and someone who blatantly walks through the front door of a church “as is – where is” with no apparent change and no willingness to repent and embrace the changes that the Gospel demands.
The real danger, is that gay people will simply be “welcomed” into these churches, without being challenged about thier gay lifestyle. and will just assume that it is OK to keep on living that way. Unscrupiolous ‘pastors’ may well just let them sit there in their sin too, while enjoying the increased revenue.
If you don’t think that this is possible then you just have to refer back to Ben Gresham’s stats – which stated over 1,000 gay people are Hillsong attenders (going on statistical averages)
It’s already happening Annette, but my question, is what Biblical standards are being taught to these people, if they are truly repentant, but still identify themselves as being gay? Are they really struggling with past sin, or are they still ignorant of the fact that they need to repent at all?
Please understand, I’m not judging them, but I am asking – what progress has been made in terms of their eternal destination? Have they heard the Gospel and responded, or haven’t they yet heard any kind of gospel message that offered salvation with genuine repentance as a key component?
Well said, Berean and Austin. Thank you for helping me to understand the straight and narrow path. Well done!
Churchwatcher – I’m not sure whether you’d want me to post this link, but Steve Rowe (known online as Gordy/Gordon/Faithlift) has started up another “discerning the discerners” blogsite (not sure whether to laugh or cry this time…)
https://chookwatch.wordpress.com/2014/05/
And the very first post is so woefull – I just couldn’t help noticing how biased and inaccurate it was.
He’s going after Dan McConnell’s book – “A Different Gospel” and attacking him, while bolstering the well known heresies of Hagin and Kenyon, and calling all of that rubbish “faith”, when in fact it is not real Bible based ‘faith’ at all.
Even Ruth Kenyon-Houseworth recognises her father’s own work, which Hagin plagiarised and then published, giving the view that “he had heard from God” – but hadn’t copied page after page of Kenyon’s work and passed it off as his own?No…?
http://www.mtio.com/articles/bissar51.htm
He’s also attempting to stear people away from blogs like this one, by (namelessly) smearing the admin people, and foolishly trying to discredit it through his normal means of convoluted logic, half truths, erroneous understandings and hs famous Bible misquotes as well – vintage Steve Rowe.
So why am I posting this in this particular place, at this time? That’s easy – so I can give you fair warning…
Next time he comes calling to the Churchwatcher blogsites, you’ll have a better idea who you’re dealing with, what he believes and which false prophets he is currently supporting and promoting.
The old critical blog c3churchwatchwatch was an embarassment to Phil Pringle and his C3 movement. Wasn’t it Steve? That’s why you shut it down right?
That’s one way to hide your so-called battle scars.
Actually CW – I have complete screen copies of all my “converstations” with him (if you could call them that,) so no, you can run, but can’t hide… Mr Chook!
You can’t escape the ‘brotherhood’ Steve – we are everywhere…
Here’s another link to an example of where Hagin’s blatant plagiarism of Kenyon occurred and Hagin’s published works compared side by side with Kenyon’s original works – referenced to the relevant publications and you’ll notice that Hagins published date is always after that of Kenyon’s.
That gap is sometimes just a few years but often is shown to be 10 or more years in between. Therefore, Hagin had plenty of time to read Kenyon and copy from his original works – there was no ‘divine revelation’ by God to either Kenyon or Hagin.
Kenyon’s “paper trail” of false teaching appears to have been sanitized by those who would help to cover Hagin’s tracks in order to prevent the victims of so called “faith” from abandoning the Hyper Faith movement, which is what every Hyper Faith devotee should do. their ‘faith’ is killing them…
It is important to know the tenets of these false teachers, as you may come across them in your travels from time to time. It is also important not to let certain elements (trolls?) on the Internet distract you away from current and important issues within the church, such as the one being discussed on the blog at present. Enuf said…
I just had a look from curiousity..somebody needs a hug…very, very sad.Do you think that site is free range…or caged by C3?
Is chookwatch ‘certified’ cage free?
I wonder if the poor old chooks have to tithe 10% of their grain and pellets to the big rooster who runs the plot?
And then of course, there’s the “love offering” for visiting foxes…
@ Austin above https://hillsongchurchwatch.com/2014/05/14/hillsong-grooming-its-members-to-embrace-queerstianity-part-4/#comment-3884
oops sorry – forgot to post the link:
http://www.banner.org.uk/wof/kenyon.html
Serious claims need serious evidence. If the blog’s owner wants the entry to be taken seriously then references, bibliography, websites *with links* etc are needed.
Even high school students are expected to show their information sources.
Thinker – here’s a direct link to the original article, complete with ‘point and click’ references…
http://standupforthetruth.com/2014/05/homosexuality-removed-hillsong-college-student-handbook/
Thanks Austin. It links to Apprising Ministries which is one of my favourite discernment websites.
My comment re references is meant to be taken kindly. It will be treated by careful readers as *merely* a blog entry if no easily accessible, serious evidence is provided. In the age of the Internet there is no excuse for such sloppiness.
aGordy ‘If a gay activist slips into the college and does what you say, that is hardly reflective of Hillsong, but of the actions of that individual”. Does that include Frank Houston?? that’s as close to hillsong as you can get.
I guess you’re saying you are not going to acknowledge what it says in the application form, then.
Thanks for your time.
@ gordy – do you seriously think if someone pointed a similar misrepresentation over two sources at your church, they wouldn’t amend it? I’m sure they would….
Most have acknowledged that in the comments, haven’t they? It’s the Code of Conduct that needs to be amended.
Berean, while I was on Ben Gersham’s website earlier tonight, I spied this little gem of a link to the following organisation. This is what the Church is really up against:
https://www.gaychristian.net/
Their agenda is clear…
Hello Thetruth – good to see you working out with your old sparing partner again.
You know, chook yards are very interesting places – we had 12 chooks in our wired off back yard all my growing up life. They are such funny creatures to watch.
The poor old chooks have it hard some days, hunting for scraps, chasing away butcher birds, making sure that the old ‘fox’ was kept well clear of the hen house…
But roosters on the other hand, have it relatively easy. First of all, you don’t have to lay any eggs, secondly you can enjoy the same ‘fringe benefits’ – food and water, shelter and the attention of all the ladies on the plot. Thirdly, you get to crow about it,
So it will be very interesting to see what “Kentucky Fried Ministries” will look like after this week’s online Bar-B-Que… I’ll have my rooster well done please…
#Austin. Sir, thank you for posting the new chook website in your link above.
I checked said new chook website, article#1 concludes with: “The best way to discernment is to spend far more time in the Word of God, and less time on ‘discernment ministry’ sites. Then faith will come and develop and it will become a simple matter to see right through error without risking another man’s claims.”
#Gordy. If it is such a ‘simple matter’, then why have you yourself not succeeded in the discernment ability and seeing ‘right through error’?
Furthermore if you do not like ‘discernment websites’, then why would you even create one yourself?
Finally how can one ‘spend far more time in the Word of God’ and expect those discernement results, when as others have pointed out you yourself have misquoted many Scriptures?
Please, explain.
Samir, although the issues that come up here on the blog are quite serious, some of our detractors don’t always see it that way. God’s word has to be studied and “rightly divided” – that means regular study, and fellowship (this can be online too,) so that we maintain checks and balances on what we believe and teach to others. It must be interpreted within its context – comparing scripture with scripture. Sola Scriptura…
Sound doctrine must be arrived at carefully and in a considered manner. It is not good enough to have a ‘lucky guess’ at what the scriptures say. No one is perfect and there may be times when none of us gets it right all the time, but some people’s errors are so pronounced that any alleged “truth” in what they claim, is conspicuous by its absence.
Faith does come by hearing the word, but it is no simple matter. God reveals Himself to us in His word and in everyday life as we encounter Him. Building true faith, is a matter of growth in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.
Some people foolishly suppose that they can avoid life’s difficulties by applying “faith” – but that kind of “faith” is not based upon the Bible – it is based on wishful thinking, half truths and lies, which will only pull the believer down when that kind of errant “faith” finally fails them.
Hi Austin. Yes them chooks are good at evasion, make a racket while laying eggs, and blow me down if i didnt go to the chookwatch site and thought i saw a chicken egg in the banner. Humpty dumpty was a good egg..but it didn’t go well for him.
What’s even funnier is that our premier NAR church (Glory City Church) holds its meetings at the old Sunny Queen egg factory, just 10 minutes from the Brisbane CBD… now there’s something to peck about…
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic8.depositphotos.com%2F1026266%2F851%2Fi%2F950%2Fdepositphotos_8516885-Eggs-with-smiley-faces-in-eggshell-with-a-boss-over-their-head.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdepositphotos.com%2F8516885%2Fstock-photo-Eggs-with-smiley-faces-in-eggshell-with-a-boss-over-their-head.html&h=633&w=950&tbnid=iLy20P50-9I6yM%3A&zoom=1&docid=9qL1rzDmbrxcVM&ei=8Th1U-vBAYXNkgXnmYDQDA&tbm=isch&ved=0CGIQMygOMA4&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=3105&page=1&start=0&ndsp=34
And here’s a picture of their Friday night youth meeting
You might like to inform gordy that chicken coop is NOT spelled as coupe…which he has on his front page website. Probably distracted by the new BMW coupe…very nice car.
Pertinent to all of the above posts, is the question about Hillsong preaching a watered down gospel, and from the “Massage” Bible (the Message) which warms the hearts of the faithful every time it is read…
Here’s a quote taken from an eye witness observer about what happens in Hillsong “gospel preaching” sessions and other main meetings:
“Seeking to be Sensitive:
The Hillsong way actually follows to the letter what is known as the Seeker Sensitive or Church Growth Movement model. This model is to help bring “unchurched” sinners into the meetings, and to make them as comfortable as possible with the experience.
1. Dress down in clothing and style. Jeans are the new formal wear;
2. Low mood lighting similar to a bar or nightclub. In Brisbane campus, it is so dimly lit it appears like night time, yet it’s 10:30 am in the morning. Quite a contrast especially in Queensland when the sun is up at 5:30 am;
3. Secular music is played as background music prior to the start of the service. eg The Verve – Bitter Sweet Symphony;
4. Worship – now accommodates the excitability of the young and the unchurched;
5. Music is now more about entertainment than the sole purpose of lifting up our God above all other gods;
6. The lyrics (words) of the songs have progressively become “I, me, my” focused instead of Christ Jesus focused – e.g. In Your Freedom I will live;
Worship is now limited to 20 minutes;
7. Big screens are not there for the glory of God. It’s not pictures of creation, but the names and faces of those on stage that are lifted up;
8. Hillsong relies on the quality of programmes not the power of the Holy Spirit for transformed lives;
9. Preaching is now a standard 20 minute sermonette;
10. Preaching on the whole is “relevant” and topical. It is now a people based message to “help” the hearer with their felt-needs e.g. happiness, family , finances, relationships, job, career etc;
This type of pop spirituality effectively teaches:
11. Every human being is divine or basically good;
12. God’s Word is not really the final authority, but is still useful as a moral guide;
13. The goal of my life is centred on me;
14. What I desire determines what happens in my life.
What this type of church model does, is nothing more than increase the numbers of adherents, and leaves the sinner in his sins. The church now has a flock of deceived sheep, or are they in reality misguided goats?
Massaging the Message:
Messages lack any mention of sin, repentance, prayer, obedience, death to self, holiness, sacrifice, suffering, hell, even God himself.
Preaching lacks sound doctrine. Closer analysis reveals it is more based around pop psychology, than biblical truth.
The message has little challenge or need for personal self assessment.
Yet the scripture exhorts us to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith – 2 Corinthians 13:5
The preaching frequently includes different Bible versions. This includes The Message, which is a perversion and not a true translation.
Often this is quoted in church to expound or reveal a greater truth. It is normally thrown up on the big screen for everyone to read. The Message was produced by Eugene Peterson, as a simple paraphase, not as a translation from the original texts.
Yet without fail, not a Sunday will go by without this Bible version being quoted.
To show the degree we have strayed, the KJV has over 700 references to “Lord” in the New Testament alone. The Message has just 23 verses which mention “Lord”.
But the real concern is that “Lord” is never once associated or found linked to “Jesus” in any way in The Message.
Brian Houston frequently preaches a message that is a watered down gospel. He teaches from Bible verses that were never meant to say what he teaches. This is known as Eisegesis.
Eisegesis (from the Greek root εις, meaning into, in, among) is the process of misinterpreting a text in such a way that it introduces one’s own ideas, reading into the text.
This is best understood when contrasted with Exegesis. While exegesis draws out the meaning from the text, eisegesis occurs when a reader reads his/her interpretation into the text. As a result, exegesis tends to be objective when employed effectively while eisegesis is regarded as highly subjective.
Verses are used just because they have a certain word or contain a truth that fits with his message.”
Link: http://groupsects.wordpress.com/2013/04/13/another-inside-view-of-hillongs-brisbane-takeover/
Does anyone still doubt that gays within Hillsong won’t hear a genuine Gospel message from their pulpits?
Does anyone doubt that Hillsong is quite happy with ‘pastor’ Brian and his watered down gospel?
A ‘gospel’ which seeks to make sinners comfortable in the presence of God, without so much as the need for genuine repentance being emphasised, or at times, even mentioned. I don’t…
(Numbering of the above point is mine…)
A+ all correct Austin
notice Houston’s student’s code of conduct, occult practices
yet he uses Eugene Peterson’ new age, occult message Bible
It’s ok for the leadership to use occult, but the followers can’t. this shows the garbage going on their
Copeland’s use it too
Hi Wally – that’s why I call it “the Massage” as it seems to massage and soothe the consciences of those who use it inorder to formulate false doctrine, and underpin false prophecies.
I had friends here in Briasbane that were members of the house churches here for some years, but some 18 months ago, they decided to head for the all new Taj Mahal of Hillsong Brisbane.
It has such an attraction for many people, and I’m not entirely sure of their motives in dumping off the home church movement in favour of such a blatant anti Christian establishment – but there you go.
Hillsong’s fatal attraction gets people in like moths circling a candle, not realising that the very thing they are attracted to will one day cause their destruction…
@ Austin – in point 2: “Low mood lighting similar to a bar or nightclub.”
That was our experience at C3 – at both morning and evening services (we generally attended both). During worship the lights would be lowered, like a theatre before the show starts – it also puts the focus on the band, by the way.
In all fairness to some pastors and a lot of the congregation, they hated it. When my husband asked the “boss” why, his response was “I want to create a mood”! I’m not kidding, his exact words.
As a result of this, we moved from the closer front rows back to the second last row near the big entrance, when asked by the “boss” why we moved, my husband’s response was “so I can read my bible”. The problem being that often the lights were only taken up a little after worship, not enough to read clearly.
This unfortunately also forces the congregation to look to the big screens rather than their bibles, and the big screen text was more often than not, the “Message” bible.
Why do they need to create a “mood”? Is it not enough to allow the Holy Spirit to move among the congregation if He is truly at work in these churches? Is He so powerless?
Berean, similar happenings took place at the old River City Church here in inner Brisbane. They completely repainted the whole inside of the building with what was described as “baby poo” colour – mentioned from the pulpit several times.
The band was definitely the focus of the “worship” during meetings, and in fact attracted quite a few noise complaints to local council. They were made to install a drum cubical – constructed from expensive custom made perspex, and the lighting desk, next to their 24 channel sound mixer, was larger than the mixing desk itself.
Mood lighting? What for? Who would want to control the total environment of the congregation while still claiming that the Holy Spirit was in control, and that the leadership were ‘spirit led’? Which spirit…?
The ‘pastor’ often used to preach his sermons based on ‘Bono and U2′ type “revelations” – no wonder it’s gone for good. Who can build a foundation for a strong church, based on the musings of an unsaved rock musician?
It’s the church that was built on sand, and the Brisbane floods washed it all away:
“And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:27)
Thankfully that former church (which was taken over by Metro Church/Isee in 2008 and sold for $15 million dollars after the 2011 Brisbane floods,) has now been bulldozed into real estate, with some 57 units coming online in several months’ time.
At least I won’t have to make excuses for their bad behaviour in the neighbourhood any more – and that’s a relief…
Church Pastor Marries Gay Couple – from November 2013 Gold Coast paper:
http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/news/breaking-news/pastor-who-performed-gay-wedding-defiant/story-fnjbnxok-1226764190537
Is this what the emergent church wants to see? At least the Methodists took action…
But there’s more – I’m not sure whether any of this has been posted by CW before, but here’s Ben Greshem’s “word of encouragement” to ‘gay’ Christians within Hillsong and other churches…
“A word of encouragement:
For those gay Christians still at Hillsong I want to encourage you to keep being yourself at church and to keep sharing your story with anyone who will listen. Give your pastors and leaders grace and patience but also keep them accountable.
For those gay Christians at other churches and those currently not in church, I want to encourage you to keep spreading the good news of Jesus Christ with our community.
Let this message be an encouragement that our God deeply cares about all people no matter what their sexual orientation. Lets keep sharing about why we kept our faith and connecting people with churches and communities that are safe and affirming.”
http://bennygresham.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/grace-for-gays-is-hillsong-church.html
Keep them accountable? Sounds like Ben and his ‘Gaysong’ mates have Brian and Bobbie on the run…
Do we really need to say any more about the gay community’s alleged agenda? Yes? No? – Well definitely NO! Their agenda is clear – crystal clear…
“Evangelicalism is set to pay a huge price for turning away from the proper Christian spirituality of sola Scriptura and toward the subjective spirituality of personal mysticism.”
Heretics like Francis Macnab http://stmichaels.org.au/ and Peter Kennedy http://stmaryssouthbrisbane.com/ , who have both lost their belief in Jesus as the Son of God and that He actually exists and run all encompassing spiritual services rather than the Uniting Church service and proper Catholic Mass that they once respectively led, are far more dangerous than people who believe in Jesus and accepted Christian beliefs. Macnab is seriously leading people astray with his non-belief, and Kennedy is a tragic man who got disillusioned and has led a few hundred plus people along that same path.
newtaste is right… Dr Francis McNab preaches a dangerous false gospel. One he himself is very open about:
@ Newtaste – here’s a link to a Courier Mail article on Peter Kennedy. I remember the furore and controversy as he and his “congregation” were forced out of the RC ‘church’ in south Brisbane some years ago.
This man doesn’t have any belief n God per se, and is more aligned with left wing, green, gay and other radical groups that are situated in close by West End. He continually questions why God would allow disasters to occur in the world, but fails to see that the fallen nature of man (greed, lust, murder, etc) are the cause of all such events.
Blaming God for the world’s woes never gave any man an answer – only more unanswered questions. Kennedy doesn’t even believe in prayer, but is happy to lead the congregation in prayer because :”they like it”…?
For the RC ‘church’ to defrock him and put him and 400 people on the streets says a lot – pot calling the kettle black IMHO:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/rebel-priest-peter-kennedy-gives-up-on-worshipping-god/story-e6freon6-1226102271330
The gay media is still pushing Hillsong as being rabidly anti-gay. http://gaynewsnetwork.com.au/news/national/chaplaincy-program-to-fund-groups-with-links-to-homophobia-13835.html ‘Chaplaincy program to fund groups
with links to homophobia’.
“@ Newtaste – quote taken from the same link above:
“Defending the decision to not allow non-religious student welfare workers to access funding, which was possible under the previous Labor Government, Education Minister Christopher Pyne told The Guardian, “counsellors and social workers in schools are really the responsibility of the states and territories.”
In response, Federal President of the Australian Education Union, Angelo Gavrielatos, noted:
“Where does the Australian constitution say that the Federal Government is responsible for school chaplains?” ”
Thanks for that link Newtaste – very interesting. The gay lobbyists are upset because the liberals in Canberra are funding church based chaplains, but refusing to fund secular social workers into the same positions, and I can see why.
Secular ‘welfare workers’, (to use the more generic term,) are all trained to think in terms of extreme left wing ideological strategies and solutions. They are lead to believe that their training as outworked through various government funded agencies, will eventually help to cure some societal ills. It’s a joke…
Where ever socialism (based on Darwinism and Humanism,) flourishes, things inevitably go from bad to worse. You’ve only got to look as far as public schools in most states to see that. And that’s why Tony Abbot et al refuse to fund them – because their ideology has a proven track record of destruction of things that we as a nation, hold dear.
“Where does the Australian constitution say that the Federal Government is responsible for school chaplains?”
Well, it doesn’t specifically mention that at all, but then again, there’s nothing there about the wholesale funding of secular humanists either, whose manifesto includes the destruction of Western society, but plenty of funding was granted to such groups under the previous Rudd – Gillard – Rudd government, lead by Labour and the Greens.
During year 2000, I attended Shellharbour TAFE, while studying Youth Work Cert 4 – I graduated in March 2001. During that course of study, we looked very closely at youth suicide, homophobic tendencies, and a whole range of related topics.
At one point, a huge debate raged throughout our classroom sessions for three days over the ‘gay’ issue. Our lecturers were so enthralled at the spectacle of 32 people arguing the toss for and against, they suspended all other classes and allowed the debate to continue – this was, apparently unprecedented.
One third of the class identified with the ‘gay community’ in that they believed the erroneous theory of a “gay gene” being responsible for people’s sexual preferences.
The other 2 thirds were either practising Christians of some sort or another, or had a Christian upbringing, and we were collectively opposed to the “gay gene” theory.
you see folks, If you were born with a ‘gay’ gene, then you didn’t have a choice, but if no such gene existed – ever, then you had obviously made choices at some stage in your lifetime, to give into unnatural sexually perverted acts, that were unacceptable before God or mankind. That was the divide as we saw it.
It all comes down to education, and this is something that extreme left wing/gay groups and their lobbyists so desperately want to infiltrate and control. To have their footsoldiers out there, amongst inexperienced and impressionable youth in schools, who can so easily be turned towards the gay agenda, is all of their dreams come true.
You’re too right about social workers being very gay-friendly in ideology Austin.
I have a relative who is a sympathizer. The amount of pro-gay propaganda that they started posting on Facebook since commencement of work at a university…. if they hadn’t been married previously I would automatically assume they were gay.
Hello Thinker – socialist/left wing governments fund various minority groups, in order to stear the education process in the direction they want.
Welfare workers know where their bread is going to be buttered at the next funding round, and so do TAFE college and University lecturers.
So, if they all want the maximum funding for the next 5 years, (the expected minimum run of an incumbent state government,) they will create a syllabis that leans heavily towards the left.
Consequently, any welfare organisations (including church based ones,) who want to access that funding, will also employ the graduates of such a syllabis and have their constitutions, guidelines and local programs written up accordingly.
They will be affirming, inclusive, supportive of the ‘right’ political party come election time, and will seek to curry favour with all the ‘right’ connections in all 3 levels of government, regardless as to whether they are currently in power or not.
Some will even fly the (false) 6 coloured “rainbow” flag out the front of their agency in order to gain the maximum advantage in terms of both funding and ‘community support’.
They often talk about ‘community values’. Which community? The minority one – a specific “community of interest”, which is deceptively paraded as the wider community, which it is not. This is a subtle attempt to align the wider community with the views and values of those of the minority, and make out that their alternative/sinful lifestyles are just ‘normal’ now – and you, the tax payer are paying for it…
Being a successful welfare worker in the 21st century means that you have a very finely tuned sense of which way the political wind is blowing. That’s why most of them end up playing “musical chairs” every 2 to 3 years, as the funding rounds rise and fall according to the budget, and the whims of the government departments who issue the money on the government’s behalf.
Why any church would be stupid enough to buy into that merry-go-round cesspool of politics and money, I’ll never know…
@ Austin @churchwatcher – perhaps you should start a “Your weekly dose of absurdity” link to the topic of Queerstianity.
Here’s the potentional first dose:
“Company Sued over “Homophobic” Catalogue”
“An electronic component supplier is being sued over allegedly homophobic terminology in its product catalog. Daniel Everett, a resident of Burlington, Massachusetts, is seeking nearly $100,000 in damages from Portland-based Posnex Components for emotional distress he claims was caused by images and descriptions in the company’s Spring 2014 catalog.
Everett, an interior designer who recently married his long-term partner Kevin, first became aware of the offensive material while visiting a relative who is a DIY electronics enthusiast. “I sat down at his kitchen table and there was a Posnex catalog lying open at the section for audio and video connectors,” he explained. “As I glanced down the page, the terminology of ‘male’ and ‘female’ caught my attention. But as I looked more closely at the photos and the product descriptions, I became appalled at what I saw.”
Read the rest here……..
http://michaeljkruger.com/cornelius-van-til-meets-the-radical-homosexual-agenda/
It is satire but “Even though this piece is satire, it sounds remarkably like something that could really happen! That fact alone tells us something about the direction of our country” – (and our country too).
Well Berean, I’m in serious trouble too – I’ve got whole drawers and cupboards full of “male and female” connections – as spare parts, as old circuit boards that I often rummage through before buying new components, and items that are working test gear…
In fact, I don’t know how modern electronics in the last 100 years would actually get by without the concept of ‘male and female’ plugs and sockets… and I’d better get rid of this year’s Jaycar catalogue too, which has several hundred listings, and all of the male/female variety…
By the way, joining two plugs together presents an open circuit, and joining two sockets together, produces no connection at all – just thought you’d like to know…
I have a difference of opinion in some areas of theology with Dr. Michael Brown but when it comes to the issue Christianity and the homosexual, he is sterling…..
I agree with what he says about homosexuality. We should not waiver in the truth, because it’s the truth that sets you free.
“We are aware how sensitive this Christian issue is and wish to deal with it respectfully.”
Yet the title of the series of posts includes the word ‘grooming’, clearly stating that you are not at all being sensitive nor are you showing any respect.
There are only two meanings for grooming in the Cambridge dictionary. One relates to personal appearance, the other is:
grooming
noun [U] (SEX)
/ˈɡruː.mɪŋ/
› the criminal activity of becoming friends with a child, especially over the internet, in order to try to persuade the child to have a sexual relationship with you
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/grooming_2
It’s clear which definition you mean. Your inference is to link homosexuality to paedophilia. That the majority of homosexuals are paedophiles. A link that has well and truely been debunked. That’s not being honest, respectful, sensitive, nor is it being Christian.
Your six degrees of separation modi operandi is getting tired. And sickening.
Actually Newtaste there is a non sexual use of grooming techniques:
“Grooming is a tactic of overcoming the survivor’s defenses by slowly desensitizing his or her natural reaction to abusive behaviors. The most commonly recognized context is when pedophiles use it on children and their parents,
…but the technique is also used in other contexts, such as confidence scams or commercial sex work.
Grooming works by mixing positive behaviors with elements of abuse. At the beginning, all behaviors are positive. Slowly, abusive elements are added in amounts that surprise the survivor to an extent, but do not push alarm to a high level. Overtime, the inappropriate comes to feel normal.”
http://www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Behaviors/grooming.html
Obviously a Hot topic, But still silence from Hill$ong. No change to the documentation, nothing.
Yes, Chris. They are being very silent, aren’t they.
I suppose if they made any changes at this late stage of the game, then either they may have to admit that they got it wrong (two sets of rules?)
Or worse still, that they do have an agenda to accept gays in Bible School and leadership positions, (eventually,) and they they made a slip up and accidentally left clues behind as to where that agenda may be heading sometime soon???
Hi Austin, I think the second option is the correct one. That they do have an agenda to accept gays in Bible school. Pretty sad that Hillsong are disobeying Gods Word. Even if they face persecution, they should still not compromise Gods word.
Hi Annette – I think that is the correct conclusion from all I’ve seen and heard lately. Like I said, if you want government funding and you don’t want discrimination lawsuits landing in your lap by the dozen, you will eventually be forced into a compromised position. You will either officially accept “gay Christians” as students and potential ministers, or you will do it via the back door, until it becomes more ‘acceptable’…
Of course, Hillsong could never ‘reveal’ just who was, or wasn’t gay, because of “privacy and confidentiality” provisions, which often come attached to the funding, or are written up by a dozen back room lawyers, trying to keep the lawsuit wolves from the door.
As for ‘facing persecution’? They’d probably see this and other blogsites like it, as ‘persecution’. Wait until the end times really gets rolling and real persecution comes their way. They wanted a high profile ‘ministry’ – well, they’ve got it!
Come on Brian and Bobby – let the good times roll!
They don’t understand spirituality then, if they accept gays into leadership. I certainly would never let a gay person pray for me, or speak into my life, as what’s in their spirit certainly isn’t the Holy Spirit. Now I’m not a gay hater, don’t get me wrong. It’s just that you have to be truthful about sin, it’s the truth that sets you free.
Let’s leave the word ‘gay’ out of it for a moment. What if Hillsong were approached by a prostitute, a bank robber and a con artist, who all wanted to join their Hillsong College? Who would they sign up? Any of them – or all of them?
Imagine testimony time in the orientation class – “Hi, I’m a Christian bank robber, and after robbing my last stash of cash, I really felt led by the Lord to spend some of it here at Alpha Crusis Bible College…thanks for the warm welcome to the School – and by the way – dinner is on me…!
Would anyone put up with that,or not see the plain common sense in expecting a repentant lifestyle from that person first – perhaps for several years, before entertaining the idea of them going to Bible School, with a view to becoming a pastor at some future date…? No? NO!
Fine – then I ask what’s the difference between an unrepentant bank robber, and and unrepentant gay? Both are sinners, and both need the Saviour, but neither of them should rise to prominence or be engaged in potential minstry activities until they have shown a genuine change and continual changes along the way, towards growing in the nature and character of Christ…
Please watch this video: The Truth About God
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About the Church of Christ (Iglesia Ni Cristo)
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