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C H Spurgeon, Charles, Charles H Spurgeon, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, down grade, Hillsong, Spurgeon
Bobby Houston put this out on Instagram,
WHEN WORLDS COLLIDE :: #hillsongconf will gather the broad and beautiful Body of Christ this week — “ACC/AOG Anglican Apostolic Baptist Bethren Catholic Charismatic/Pentecostal Christian City Church Christian Outreach Centre Church of Christ Foursquare/Elim Independent Lutheran Methodist Presbyterian Salvation Army Seventh-day Adventist Uniting Church & 000s who always say “other” ##welovetheChurch#thykingdomcome ##noothername
Source: Bobbie Houston, Instagram, http://instagram.com/p/p0Kwk1oY5q/?modal=true. (Accessed 29/06/2014.)
Where do we begin with this “liberal” Hillsong mess? “When worlds collide”, Hillsong calls those worlds “Christian”. Mega church pastor Charles Spurgeon had this to say about the church’s tragic state of affairs.
The Down Grade
The Act of Uniformity, which came into effect in 1662, accomplished the purpose of its framers in expelling Puritanism from the Church established by law in England and Wales. Puritanism was obnoxious to King Charles II. and his court, and a large majority of the men high in office in both Church and State, chiefly for the godliness of living which it enjoined, and for the Calvinism of its teaching. With the ejectment of the two thousand ministers who preferred freedom and purity of conscience to the retention of their livings, Calvinism was banished from the Church of England, excepting so far as the Articles were concerned. Arminianism took its place. Then the State Church, which the great reformers had planted, and which some of them had watered with their blood, presented the spectacle which went far to justify the sarcasm of an eminent writer, that she possessed “A Popish Liturgy, a Calvinistic Creed, and an Arminian Clergy.” The ejected were Calvinists almost to a man. Previous to this period, some few Free Churches had been founded, and were Independent or Baptist, the latter being mainly of the General section, and of Dutch origin.
The ejected, who were in one sense alone the first Nonconformists, were mainly Presbyterians; some, however, were Independents, and a few Baptists. The Churches they established were all Calvinistic in their faith, and such they remained for at least that generation. It is a matter of veritable history, however, that such they did not all continue for any great length of time. Some of them, in the course of two or three generations, or even less, became either Arian or Socinian. This was eventually the case with nearly all the Presbyterians, and later on, with some of the Independents, and with many of the General Baptist Communities. By some means or other, first the ministers, and then the Churches, got on “the down grade,” and in some cases, the descent was rapid, and in all, very disastrous. In proportion as the ministers seceded from the old Puritan godliness of life, and the old Calvinistic form of doctrine, they commonly became less earnest and less simple in their preaching, more speculative and less spiritual in the matter of their discourses, and dwelt more on the moral teachings of the New Testament, than on the great central truths of revelation. Natural theology frequently took the place which the great truths of the gospel ought to have held, and the sermons became more and more Christless. Corresponding results in the character and life, first of the preachers and then of the people, were only too plainly apparent.
The race of preachers which followed the first Nonconformists, that is, the ejected ministers who became Nonconformists, retained the soundness of doctrine, and purity of life, for which they were everywhere remarkable. Their sermons were less lengthy, but still long, and less burdened with divisions and sub-divisions. The life, savor, and power of the gospel remained among them, and the churches, walking in the fear of God and the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were slowly increased.
The Presbyterians were the first to get on the down line. They paid more attention to classical attainments and other branches of learning in their ministry than the Independents, while the Baptists had no academical institution of any kind. It would be an easy step in the wrong direction to pay increased attention to academical attainments in their ministers, and less to spiritual qualifications; and to set a higher value on scholarship and oratory, than on evangelical zeal and ability to rightly divide the word of truth.
Some of the ministers retained their Calvinistic soundness and their purity of character and life, and these, as a rule, gave prominence to the doctrines of the gospel, and were zealous in their ministry. But some embraced Arminian sentiments, while others professed to take a middle path, and called themselves Baxterians. These displayed, not only less zeal for the salvation of sinners, and, in many cases, less purity or strictness of life, but they adopted a different strain in preaching, dwelt more on general principles of religion, and less on the vital truths of the gospel. Ruin by sin, regeneration by the Holy Spirit, and redemption by the blood of Christ— truths on the preaching of which God has always set the seal of his approbation—were conspicuous chiefly by their absence. In fact, the “wine on the lees well refined” was so mixed with the muddy water of human speculation, that it was no longer wine at all.
There was another section among the Presbyterians who, like the former two, retained a nominal orthodoxy, and professed to believe, though they seldom preached, evangelical sentiments. Men of this stamp were chiefly remarkable for the extreme coldness of their sermons, and the extreme dullness of their delivery.
Among those who called themselves Baxterians there was little likeness to Baxter; and his zeal and earnestness, and his close, penetrating preaching, and powerful appeals to the heart and conscience were wholly wanting, except in a very few. This remark will apply also to those who called themselves Arminians.
It would appear that the Arian and other heresies did not spread at first so quickly in London as in the country. The author of a manuscript written about 1730, professes to give the sentiments of all the Nonconformist ministers in London at that time. Among the Presbyterians there were, he says, nineteen Calvinists, thirteen Arminians, and twelve Baxterians. All the Independents, he avows, were Calvinists: “twenty-seven thoroughly, one somewhat dubious, three inclined to Antinomianism, and two who were disorderly.” There were two Seventh-day Baptists—one a Calvinist, and the other an Arminian. There were sixteen Baptists, of the Particular order; of whom seven were Calvinists, and “nine inclined to the Antinomian strain.”
Antinomianism was the term applied to the teaching of Dr. Tobias Crisp. Crisp had been an Arminian, but became an ardent Calvinist, going, perhaps, a little beyond Calvin in some things. He died in 1642, and his sermons were published by his son forty-five years after his death. They were printed from short-hand notes compared with Dr. Crisp’s own notes, and therefore were lacking in that correctness and finish which the author’s own hand would have given them. This will account for the crudeness of some of his expressions. He was a man of strong faith, ardent zeal, holy life, and great devotion and faithfulness in his ministerial work. He was called an Antinomian, but the term was misapplied. Many of his statements, however, while they will readily admit of an orthodox sense, lie open to the charge of going beyond the truth.
The publication of his sermons awoke a fierce controversy, which lasted some years, and did much mischief. Dr. Williams exposed what he considered the errors and erroneous tendency of some of his utterances; and even John Flavel was among those who denounced his teaching as erroneous and Antinomian. There need not have been such an outcry. The books written against Crisp, many of them good in their way, had the effect of frightening the timid, the doubtful, and the hesitating, who, to avoid Crispianism, as it was called, went as far as they could to the opposite extreme. They verged upon Arminianism, and some actually became Arminians. The Arminianism of that day was a cold, dry, heartless thing, and many who took that name proved that they were already on “the down grade” towards Socinianism.
As is usual with people on an incline, some who got on “the down grade” went further than they intended, showing that it is easier to get on than to get off, and that where there is no brake it is very difficult to stop. These who turned from Calvinism may not have dreamed of denying the proper deity of the Son of God, renouncing faith in his atoning death and justifying righteousness, and denouncing the doctrine of human depravity, the need of Divine renewal, and the necessity for the Holy Spirit’s gracious work, in order that men might become new creatures; but, dreaming or not dreaming, this result became a reality.
It is exceedingly painful to have to state—and the conduct is no less censurable than pitiable—that among the two classes into which those who held Arian sentiments may be divided, the first were so mean and dishonest as to conceal their sentiments under ambiguous phrases. They so expressed themselves that their orthodox hearers might appropriate their statements in support of their own views, while their Arian adherents could turn them to support their scheme. It is stated on very good authority that “many wore this disguise all their days, and the most cautious carried the secret with them to the grave.” This is terrible to think of; men going down to the grave with a whole life of the very worst kind of hypocrisy unconfessed, the basest deceit and dishonesty unacknowledged, the life-long practice of a lie unrepented of. Such a course is the very worst form of lying, for it is telling lies in the name of the Lord. Others were only a little less hardened in their career of falsehood; they prepared a sermon, or other composition, revealing their true sentiments, which was made public after their decease. Still more confided their real sentiments to a small circle of adherents, who told the tale of heresy to the world only when the grave had closed over the teacher.
Such were the crafty devices of the men of “broad views,” and “free thought,” and “advanced sentiments,” in those days of “rebuke and blasphemy.” The almost blasphemous utterances of Mr. Voysey, daring and frightful as they are (see “Fortnightly Review” for Jan., 1887), have the one redeeming feature of honesty. He puts the mark of unbelief in large characters on his own brow, and does not seek in the least to hide it from any one, but rather to glory in it, that he has set himself to deny and denounce all that is sacred, and true, and holy in the gospel of our salvation. But these men deepened their own condemnation, and promoted the everlasting ruin of many of their followers by their hypocrisy and deceit; professing to be the ambassadors of Christ, and the heralds of his glorious gospel, their aim was to ignore his claims, deny him his rights, lower his character, rend the glorious vesture of his salvation, and trample his crown in the dust.
The second, and less numerous, class of Arian preachers were more honest. They boldly avowed their sentiments to their congregations, who as readily received them. In most cases, in both preachers and hearers, it was only a short step down from the Arianism which makes the eternal Son of God a super-angelic being to the Socinianism (miscalled Unitarianism) which makes him a man only, denying alike original sin, human depravity, the mediation of Christ, the personality and work of the eternal Spirit, and that new birth without which divine truth has declared no one can see the kingdom of God.
The descent of some few was less gradual, but more commonly, when once on “the down grade” their progress was slow, though unhappily sure. The central truth of Calvinism, as of the Gospel, is the person and work and offices of the Lord Jesus Christ. We love to use this Pauline and inspired description of our divine Savior and royal Master, and so to “give unto the Lord the glory due unto his name.” When men begin to hesitate about, and hold back the truth in relation to him, it is a sign of an unhealthy state of soul; and when these truths are diluted, omitted, or otherwise tampered with, it is a sign which in plain words means “Beware.”
The remark of a writer of reliable ability in reference to these times is worthy of quotation:—
“The deficiency of evangelical principles in some, and the coldness with which they came from the lips of others, seem to have prepared the way for the relinquishment of them, and for the introduction, first of Arminianism, and then of Arianism.”
Those who were really orthodox in their sentiments were too often lax and unfaithful as to the introduction of heretical ministers into their pulpits, either as assistants or occasional preachers. In this way the Arian and Socinian heresies were introduced into the Presbyterian congregations in the city of Exeter. The Rev. Stephen Towgood and Mr. Walrond, the ministers, were both reputed as orthodox, but the Rev. Micaiah Towgood, an avowed Arian, was chosen their assistant. The old ministers preached evangelical doctrine, but they complied all too readily with the wishes of their new colleague, and ceased to require a declaration of faith in the divinity of Christ in those who sought admission to the Lord’s table. Sad to say, they continued to labor on in peace, the older men dealing out the “wine of the kingdom,” and the “Living Bread,” while the younger minister intermixed his rationalistic concoctions and his Socinian leaven. A similar case occurred in London. Dr. William Harris, an avowed Calvinist, and whose preaching was in accordance with Calvinistic doctrine, had for his assistant, during the last twenty years of his life, an avowed though not strongly pronounced Socinian, Dr. Lardner, who took the afternoon lectureship. When Dr. Harris died, Dr. Lardner was elected to be his successor. For some reason he declined, when Dr. Benson, another Socinian, succeeded to the pastorate. Thus, the old, old proverb was again proved true, “The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children’s teeth are set on edge.”
This down-grade course was, we have said, more rapid, more general, and more fatal among the Presbyterians than among the Independents and General Baptists. We say General Baptists, for the deadening doctrines of Socinianism had made little inroad upon the Particular Baptists. We could not point to a single case of perversion to Socinianism during more than two centuries, though other and less vital errors have dealt much mischief among the churches of that order. Will our children and grandchildren be able to say as much of this and the next generation in fifty years time? Who can tell? But we pray and hope that they will be.
The principal cause of the quicker descent on “the down grade” among the Presbyterians than among other Nonconformists, may be traced, not so much to their more scholarly ministry, nor altogether to their renunciation of Puritan habits, but to their rule of admitting to the privileges of Church membership. Of course their children received the rite of baptism, according to their views of baptism, in infancy. They were thereby received—so the ministers taught, and so the people believed—into covenant with God, and had a right to the Lord’s table, without any other qualification than a moral life. Many such children grew up unregenerate, and strangers to the work of renewing grace; yet they claimed to be Christians, and to be admitted to all the privileges of the church, and their claim was not disallowed. To such the earnest appeals of faithful ministers of Christ would be irksome and unpalatable. The broader road and easier way of the “men of reason and culture,” which admitted of laxity of discipline and pliancy of sentiments and habits, was far more agreeable to their tastes and ideas, while the homage paid to reason and understanding, at the expense of revelation, gratified their pride, and left them free to walk after their own hearts in things pertaining to religion. Thus they chose them pastors after their own hearts, men who could, and would, and did, cry “Peace, peace,” when the only way of peace was ignored or denied.
These facts furnish a lesson for the present times, when, as in some cases, it is all too plainly apparent men are willing to forego the old for the sake of the new. But commonly it is found in theology that that which is true is not new, and that which is new is not true.
In another paper we propose to trace “the down grade” course among other Protestants in this country—a sad piece of business, but one which must needs be done. Oh that it might act as a warning to the unsettled and unsettling spirits of our own day!
Source: Charles Haddon Spurgeon, The Down Grade, The Sword and Trowel, Published March 1887. (Source: http://www.spurgeon.org/s_and_t/dg01.htm)
Well this is kind of embarassing. “When Worlds Collide” is a sci-fi movie from the 50s in which an American Astronomer discovers that a star, Bellus, is on a collision course with earth. The astronomer pleads with the United Nations telling them they have only 8 months before the destruction of the planet, hoping they will help him build spacecraft to transport people off the planet. Of course being Hollywood, the United Nations don’t believe him and refuse to help.
So the question here is, is Hillsong the star Bellus (meaning beautiful – Satan transforming himself into an angel of light?) or are they the United Nations who refuse to believe the word of the messenger that the end of the world is at hand and they need to prepare?
Either way, I think she has chosen a very interesting metaphor. Hillsong are very much part of the ecumenical movement which will eventuate in the formation of a one world church, and the United Nations are heavily backing this.
As an aside, another big conference is on in a few months in Brisbane. Bill Hybels. Willow Creek Association are holding their ‘Global Leadership Summit’ here at the Gateway Baptist. Somebody has recently informed me that Gateway have finally succumbed to the Hillsong ‘blacking out’ phenomenon as well. It seems all of these churches are being led into darkness quite literally.
It is all happening so fast. It makes me wonder how long we have.
“knowing this first, that scoffers will come in the last days walking according to their own lusts and saying “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.
But beloved do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
(2 Peter 3)
PS. Bobby has no problem claiming that Hillsong is gathering the body of Christ when it is supposed to be Jesus who does the gathering. At least there are no illusions there. More prophetic irony though.
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38″Behold, your house is being left to you desolate”
Matthew 23: 37,38
The fact that you are criticising unity in the body of Christ is absolutely disgusting. What a shame for someone who claims to be a Christian to say something like this.
Troy – is this unity you prefer for the body of Christ?
“On June 24, 2014, Saint Jean Baptiste Day, annually celebrated in Canada we also celebrate what took place at Palazzo Santa Marta, Vatican City where invited guests gathered at Pope Francis’s private residence. Guest include John and Carol Arnott (Founders of Catch The Fire), Kenneth Copeland (Founder of KCM Ministries), James Robison (Founder of Life Outreach Int.), Geoff Tunnicliffe (Head of Worldwide Evangelical Alliance), and Tony Palmer (Bishop & Int. Ecumenical Officer of the Communion Evangelical Episcopal Churches). These ministries met for a cordial gathering and lunch to begin a friendly relationship that could have a far reaching impact.
This initiative by Pope Francis is a further reaching out to the Evangelical world after his cell phone message recorded earlier this year. This time it is followed up by bringing the five ministry leaders who represent a large portion (in total approx. 900 Million Evangelicals) of the body together for a historical event, which is undeniably God-orchestrated…..”
http://revivalmag.com/article/unity-diversity
“Jesus said that the last days would be preceded by: many false Christs that deceive many, wars and rumors of wars, and an increase in famines, pestilences and earthquakes. And that we would see a huge increase in false teaching along with a great falling away by those who claim to be committed Christians; true followers of Jesus.”
http://standupforthetruth.com/2014/06/great-convergence-end-age/
Troy, what may appear to be unity on the outside, the gathering of many believers from different denominations to a conference, can be very deceiving. If you are not preaching Christ, then what you are actually gathering people to is a false gospel. This is what we are contending here.
Also, what we think is unity, ie many denominations happy to come together in one physical place is not biblical unity. We are one in Christ and one in the Spirit. If any person is not in Christ then they are not one with either Him or His people.
Troy. please. When it costs you $200 – $300 a Ticket plus the numerous amounts of “Love” and “seed” offerings that you “have” to give or God wont “bless” you I think Anita is perfectly justified in saying what she does. Christ isn’t preached. It is nothing more that… as Chris Roseborough would say… “Narsegesis”. Lets tickle some ears and make it look like there is unity when all that is really happening it capitalism in its finest form… Rich get Richer eh?
@Troy – when Jesus prayed to the Father that we “might all be one” he also finished that sentence with “…just as we are one”.
True Biblical unity is something that occurs in the hearts and minds of believers everywhere, and it is God directed – it does not come about by the hidden agendas and machinations of men – and particularly not those men – who all true believers (of various persuasions and ‘flavours’) agree that they fall into the category of ‘false prophets’.
Their false teachings, unbiblical practices and experiences, coupled with their greed for money and power is more than enough for us – but to see them meet with the Pope at the Vatican and do a ‘handshake deal’ over the lives and futures of hundreds of millions of unsuspecting Christians worldwide? We should be saying a lot more – and a lot more loudly!
Perhaps you need to do some real homework on just what those Eccumenical agendas are, before coming to this blog and decrying the people here as fake Christians, before you get to know us, and what our motives are…?
Perhaps you need to “beware of false prophets…” Matthew 7:15 ?
“15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:15 – 20)
The fruit that hangs from the branches of the false prophet’s tree, is rotten to the core .
“The Act of Uniformity, which came into effect in 1662, accomplished the purpose of its framers in expelling Puritanism from the Church established by law in England and Wales. Puritanism was obnoxious to King Charles II. and his court, and a large majority of the men high in office in both Church and State, chiefly for the godliness of living which it enjoined,” (quoted from above article…)
One just wonders whether similar provisions might be brought in here, under some half baked concept that “fundamentalists are dangerous and pose a threat to our society” It wouldn’t be the first time in history, when the state and a backslidden ‘church’ or two, rounded on the saints and tried to back them into a corner…
Here’s a brief quote from a history of the life of John Bunyan:
“In 1658 he was indicted for preaching without a license. The authorities were fairly tolerant of him for a while, and he did not suffer imprisonment until November of 1660, when he was taken to the county jail in Silver Street, Bedford, and there confined (with the exception of a few weeks in 1666) for 12 years until January 1672.
Bunyan afterward became pastor of the Bedford church. In March of 1675 he was again imprisoned for preaching publicly without a license, this time being held in the Bedford town jail. In just six months this time he was freed, (no doubt the authorities were growing weary of providing Bunyan with free shelter and food) and he was not bothered again by the authorities.”
http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/john-bunyan.html
Makes you wonder, doesn’t it, whether any of these ‘Megachurch’ pastors would ever suffer imprisonment for their false gospels and outrageous ‘tithing sermons’? Maybe it should be a crime to perform “acts of money raking (tithing) without a license”?
Well, I’d have to say, going on their track record they probably wouldn’t. But then again, some of them have been found guilty in recent times of theft, tax evasion and one in particular is facing charges over what appears to be money laundering…
How times have changed…
The puritans ruled England with an iron fist and did a fair bit of persecuting themselves. As did Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, some early American churches and anyone else who tried to combine church and state. In fact a nation run by religious zealots is about the worse form of torture anyone can ever conceive. Remember the Inquisition.
Having said that there is a great deal of difference between a bible believing christian who quietly refuses to accept the lies of the ruling religious institution like Bunyan, or Bonhoeffer and some ‘fundamentalist’ church which usurps God’s authority and abuses its congregation with impunity. As I am sure you have experienced.
In fact, there is far less likelihood that any democratically run state is going to suddenly get strict with religious bodies than many people think. If it was in the least bit possible, then churches like BCF, another megachurch with a lunatic at the helm would have been dealt with years ago. Plenty of people have appealed to the likes of Senators and the media but there has been absolutely no move from anyone in power to change anything. The fact that the government of our day is loath to get itself involved in church governance is proof that they are more than a little controlled by the Catholic Church. Hence the rise and rise of the popularity of Pope Francis at a time when the sexual misconduct of his priests is causing major heartache worldwide.
Paul also chastised the 1st century congregations for even considering taking a brother to a secular court to be judged by the unrighteous. Judgement begins in the church by the church. Unfortunately, when its the leaders of the church who are corrupt and refuse to repent wehave a conundrum. Especially when other church leaders are also loath to get themselves involved in chastising or disciplining their brothers. Even those of us who can see the dilemma have no power to do anything but appeal to God for his justice. We can use the internet to proclaim truth and to refute error, but we cannot use the internet for retribution or to indulge in mud-slinging as some have tried to do. We are left with prayer and the determination to walk in the Spirit in our own individual lives and to use the tools at hand to preach the full gospel.
@anitameg – I would agree with your historical assessment of the ‘evolution’ of the Reformation. Certainly parts of it were very ‘messy’ as was the formation of ancient Israel…
“there is far less likelihood that any democratically run state is going to suddenly get strict with religious bodies than many people think…”
This is true too – for now, but the Vatican and its ilk love to hold sway in third world countries run by despots and dictators. No democracy = trial by the Papacy?
At the risk of ‘speculating’ many people feel that the current federal government is headed towards a kind of ‘neo fascism’ and it has been pointed out here a while ago (possibly before your time ‘anitameg’) that most of their front bench are Catholic educated man, who have strong links with that organisation and at various levels..
Ordinarily, I wouldn’t talk politics on this blog, but in view of just who is in government, and what their ‘influences’ are, it may seem relevant to consider the fact that in the past, such a combination of “church and state” has been the very end of democracy, as it could well be for us one day!
It was this very combination (of the Pharisees and the Roman governor, Pilate) that put Jesus on the cross (not discounting the foreknowledge and will of God in the matter,) and that this is perhaps the most abject lesson as to why this state of affairs must not be allowed to occur.
Apart from any of that, it is just that the state investigates potential criminal activity ($25 million dollars worth in one case alone…) and act accordingly.
See Romans 13:4:
“For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.”
It is no longer a simple case of ‘a brother taking another brother to court’ over minor matters – these cases have gone way beyond that, and they are, after all, a part of the “downhill” slide, which is the main theme of this thread…
That downhill slide, in our day, means exchanging the truth for a lie, in every area – faith, conduct, belief, worship, giving and ministry standards – it’s all sliding down the slippery slope of error, being ably aided and abetted by the apostate ‘churches’ of our day.
John Bunyan and his testimony would have shone like a bright light in a dark place – because he was prepared to pay the price, in order to preach the truth.
@anita “In fact a nation run by religious zealots is about the worse form of torture anyone can ever conceive”. I absolutely 100% agree with you. Look at the islamic nations that are run by such extremists now. And before i get hounded down, not ALL islamic states, just the ones run by religious zealots.
@ Anitameg, trying to connect to your blog but it says “not found.” Did you type in an old link? I wanted to take a look to see what all you have on there,
Jim Styles
Jim Styles – http://jairusdaughter.wordpress.com/
Thanks Churchwatcher, I appreciate it, I’m going to check it out….
Anita’s posts are pretty good, so I’m interested in taking a look,
Jim Styles