ACC, AOG, Assemblies of God, Assemblies of God Australia, Brian Houston, Hillsong, houston, pope
Pope Frances has been pushing the “miracle of unity” and is hoping to fulfill his “god-given” vision by uniting the ‘Protestant’ church and the Roman Catholic Church. People are watching with concern Kenneth Copeland, John and Carol Arnott, Joel Osteen and many others embrace the Pope as “their pope”. (We will be looking more into this later.
We’ve heard Christians scoff that it wont happen here in Australia. Especially in Sydney.
Back in 2005, the AOG/Hillsong released this statement from Brian Houston.
PRAYING FOR NEWLY ELECTED POPE
National President of the Assemblies of God in Australia, Brian Houston, has congratulated the election of Pope Benedict XVI as the leader of the world’s Catholics.
Pastor Houston said the shoes of the charismatic and endearing Pope John Paul II, who taught the world so much through his life and his subsequent suffering, would be difficult to fill.
“Pope John Paul II left an indelible mark on the world, and we pray for Pope Benedict as he takes on the leadership mantle of the Catholic Church and navigates the challenges and opportunities facing the global Church in the 21st century,” Ps Houston said.
“It is important for all of us to honour and pray for anyone in a position of leadership and authority. Pope Benedict XVI is a spiritual and experienced leader and is now head over a significant portion of the Christian community, so we will pray for wisdom in his immensely influential role,” he said.
“We pray too that this papacy, like those before it, is marked by a commitment to seeing the Christian message continue to go forward and people changed by the power and truth of the Gospel.
“Obviously, as Protestants, our views are considerably different to the Pope’s on a number of issues however, we share a common desire to exalt Christ and serve our community to the best of our ability.”
Source: Brian Houston, Praying for newly elected pope, Assemblies of God Australia, (Affiliated with ACC), 21/04/2014. (Accessed 14/11/2013.)
(Source – PDF:AOG/Hillsong: Brian Houston statement – Praying for newly elected pope)
Is Hillsong ready to take Christianity back to Rome?
My view from reading the statement: We are called to pray for everyone (1 Tim 2) including our leaders. I believe we should be praying not just for our political leaders but for the leaders of the church denominations too. Whether I agree with the Houstons and Pringles of this world (I don’t) I will pray for them and for those who attend their churches that they may come to know our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
I am deeply concerned about the “miracle of unity” but am not sure how the statement from 2005 links into this.
In my eyes the last two paragraphs are the most controversial. I do not agree with the AOG that the Catholic church has preached the gospel. Is this what you are getting at Churchwatcher? Are you saying that because the AOG believes the Catholic church has and continues to preach the gospel then therefore they are open to unity in the global church? Can you join the dots for me in case I’ve missed something?
GM – I don’t think you missed anything… Brian sure did though – he missed all of the history of the Vatican and its secret society, the Jesuits. I wonder if Brian knew all about them, that his “prayers” for them would be the same?
Here’s a very tame link to their history and activities throughout the world, in the last 500 years (note – usual disclaimers about the author and rest of content applies):
… and now we have, for the first time in history, a Jesuit Pope – are you sure Brian, that you really want to shake hands with people like this and join in with them in the spreading of the “gospel”???
I’m sorry Austin but any website that sounds like it’s written by a conspiracy theorist is most likely, well, written by a conspiracy theorist.
The link comes up with a whole host of claims (like Jesuits control some central banks and big corporations) but doesn’t offer a single thread of evidence. But people like to believe this kind of stuff because it’s exciting and easy to swallow, and if offers an easy explanation (e.g. the Jesuits are evil and manipulating everything) to describe an extremely complex world. Our brains are lazy and the laziest will latch on to this and claim “fact!”.
In fact, the people who latch onto this are likely the same kind of people who latch on to C3 and Hillsong, happily believing that cutting a monthly cheque will eventually lead to multiples being returned to them as God’s blessing. Reading the bible and discovering the truth is that hard part there btw, it’s much easier to just raise your hand and say “thank you Doctor Pringle, I’ll do whatever you say”…
I’m sorry too Icarus – but I think that you’ll find that 500 years worth of Reformation history (the “facts”) will disagree with your opinion. Check out the Reformers (just about anyone from Luther to Wesley, Booth, Spurgeon and beyond) if you doubt me… they all identified the Papacy as Antichrist along with its evil deeds…
In order to pull off the level of control that the Vatican now exerts over more than one billion people, it must have money and in fact has more than you or I could count.
Our own ‘front bench’ of the federal government has half a dozen or more Jesuit educated politicians – that’s a fact too, and the Vatican Bank itself? Well, start counting now, and I’ll see you some time during the Millenium, when you’re finished. 🙂
I can assure you my friend, that I do not deal in ‘theories’ that cannot be proven. The article was linked to, because it lines up with what is well known about the Vatican and its minions – not because it is the latest ‘theory’. Ask any Christian in a third world country, how the Vatican treats “heretics” when they hold sway via their dictatorships – there’s plenty of ‘facts’ there too… now and in the past.
As well, the more some of these ‘theories’ are investigated, the more ‘facts’ come spilling out into common view. I am not an encyclopedia of information,nor am I anyone’s personal research worker. Being ex Catholic myself (with no personal axes to grind – not an abuse victim etc) I can look at such places on the internet objectively and say – “seen it all before” and in my own neighbourhood.
I’d be interested to know just what you would require as ‘proof’ in order to get a story out of the realm of ‘conspiracy theory’ and into a place where you would believe it – another 2 or 3 websites – or blogs like this? A half a dozen videos with over 200 comments in tow, because that is exactly what is presented here – so what is it Icarus? What kind of ‘proof’ would satisfy you??? What would make one story more “believable” than any other?
There are plenty of people posting in here regularly that decry everything that has been said and video’d in the last 4 years on this blog… Are they right, and the rest of us all wrong?
Austin: It’s interesting to note that most denomination’s confessions of faith declare the office of the papacy “antichrist”. I was listening to the (Baptist) Reformation Montana conference last week and they were talking about this very topic. Baptists, Lutherans, Presbyterians present were in agreement that this is the case, e.g.
The Westminster Confession of Faith”
“Chapter XXV Of the Church
VI. There is no other head of the church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof: but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God.”
1689 Baptist Confession of Faith (The Confession of Faith taught the typical Protestant view of the time that the Pope is antichrist.)
26.4. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the church, in whom, by the appointment of the Father, all power for the calling, institution, order or government of the church, is invested in a supreme and sovereign manner; neither can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof, but is that antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ.
The Ausberg Confession – Book of Concord (Lutheran)
Confessional Lutherans, including the Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod, Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, the Evangelical Lutheran Synod and the Church of the Lutheran Confession teach that the Roman papacy or office of the pope is the Antichrist, including this article of faith as part of a quia rather than quatenus subscription to the Book of Concord. The Missouri Synod teaches “Antichrist” refers to the office, and not to the person, while WELS disagrees.
And this is worth reading too: http://thecripplegate.com/a-friendly-reminder-the-pope-is-probably-the-antichrist/
Icarus, what is so hard to believe? An organisation which is nearly 2000 years old which used to actually control most of Europe (the Catholic Church) and colonised huge tracts of South America and Africa wishes to maintain control of its assets. What better way to do that than to train future political hopefuls to be its operatives or at the very least its allies. I mean, good grief, the whole world thinks Francis is Father Christmas. Hollywood loves Catholics. In nearly every movie portraying people of faith it will be the catholic faith. If you travel through every small town in this country and in most of the outback there will be Catholic missionaries who got there first in order to brainwash and/or educate the inhabitants, not to mention the indigenous people. They are like their mother, ancient Rome, whose sole ambition was to make every human on the planet Roman. Forget what Jesus said about tares and wheat, they will simply impose their divine right to dominate.
What always amazes me is that whenever people talk about the likelihood of ‘conspiracy theories’ being true they simply forget the wicked nature of human beings and of course ignore the power behind the throne, Satan himself and all his principalities and powers.
I think most of the problem lies in the way people talk about these things. We tend to discuss these issues in hushed and excited tones as though we were children at a sleepover telling scary stories. The simple fact is, powerful men and women exist in this world who wish to have more power and more control. Most of us don’t have that kind of ambition so its hard to believe there are people who do.
Thanks churchwatcher – I have read some of that before, but am not familiar with all the Reformist confessions of faith – I think we have the ‘testimony of two or three witnesses’ and many more.
Here’s a link to the SMH paper from April last year, with a rundown on politicians, bankers and others who are graduates of the Jesuit owned educational institutions, just in Australia alone – and this list is only a sample – it is by no means exhaustive:
Yes anitameg – fallen human nature, inspired by the potential for personal gain (power, money and influence, never mind property, and the “life of Riley) is enough of an incentive for many to sell their souls in the “Faustian deal”.
In fact, it almost sounds like the basic acquisitions required for “your best life now…” and also explains why “you need more money…” 🙂
And here’s a smattering of Jesuit owned educational institutions worldwide:
So there’s politics and education covered, and here’s some links from a post about Vatican/Jesuit banks:
It’s not my aim to upset you Icarus, but I and others have studied these things for years – I suppose that, now and then we forget that others may not have been privy to the same information and may be blind to the fact that these things exist and that they are having a very detrimental effect on our world…
Exposing them may not prevent them from happening again and again, but it may alert some to the kind of world we really do live in, and that can sometimes be more scary than the worst kind of ‘conspiracy theories…’
Check this out Austin – I had heard about this before. 🙂 NOT conspiracy theory but interesting:
“Obama Administration – Complementing the congressional representation are the approximately 30 alumni from the 28 Jesuit colleges and universities currently serving in appointed positions to President Barack Obama. Members of the Obama administration from AJCU institutions include Department of Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates (Georgetown University, 1974, PhD), Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet A. Napolitano (Santa Clara University, 1979, BA), Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Director Leon E. Panetta (Santa Clara University, 1960, BA), Office of Management and Budget Director Jacob Lew (Georgetown University, 1983, JD), and White House Chief of Staff William Daley (Loyola University Chicago, 1970, BA).”
Read more here: http://www.scu.edu/news/features.cfm?c=9340
Thanks churchwatcher – here’s some clues as to who is behind those 28 “institutions”:
…and there’s some other doctrinal material, which could be discussed/debated on another occasion – Mary Queen of heaven etc, but it’s what’s happening in the modern world and the influence these organisations exert that is of great concern.
Does Brian really know just who and what he is getting involved with, and does he really want to “pray” for them now, in terms of them being a ‘christian’ organisation, who preaches the ‘gospel’ and is worthy of his ‘prayers’…?
“I’d be interested to know just what you would require as ‘proof’ in order to get a story out of the realm of ‘conspiracy theory”
How about name me one central bank that is controlled by the Jesuits as is stated on that website? The Vatican doesn’t count!
churchwatcher said: “That’s an
article from way back in April – it seems we’ve all moved on since then.”
April 2014. You’ve moved on by going backwards to 2005!!
Icarus said: ” … any website that
sounds like it’s written by a conspiracy theorist is most likely,
well, written by a conspiracy theorist.”
churchwatcher is into conspiracy theories. So I’ll help.
Brian Houston supports the Chelsea Football Club. Roman Abramovich, the owner Russian owner of Chelsea, is Jewish. So because Brian Houston supports a Jewish owned club, that must mean he supports Chrislamish. Sure you could get a post out of that.
Seriously Newtaste, you gotta do better than that.
Newtaste – you’re often prepared to have a go at C3 and Phil Pringle. But Hillsong? You have said in the past you have issues with them too? Make up your mind. As I said, people can’t see comments once they scroll out of sight, and as the saying goes “out of sight, out of mind”. If you want to resurrect the discussion, now’s your chance.
How about this? What do you think of Steven Furtick’s “ramble” at the 2014 Hillsong Conference? Would you ever let him have a keynote address or even invite him back, given his REALLY bad eisegesis on “super apostles” and wanting to be one? Listen from the 42 minute mark:
By the way this isn’t a site that supports ‘conspiracy theories’ except with a little humour. However if anyone comes here with that agenda they will eventually lose interest and find plenty of sites elsewhere. The Jesuit issue and the Pope is interesting given the impact he’s having on the extreme WOF crowd, but that’s another article. 🙂
In other words, don’t “feed” the conspiracy theorists!!
@Icarus – what do you mean “the Vatican doesn’t count”?
With the new Pope Francis sitting on the Papal throne, the JESUITS ARE the Vatican!
On the one hand you don’t like the first post, because (according to you,) it provides no ‘proof’.
Then, when I dig up several references (I have posted most of them before, whether you realise it or not,) for the second post, you don’t like them either – because “the Vatican doesn’t count”???
Icarus – what is happening in the world today, is happening through many human agencies – most of them evil, and for the very reasons that @anitameg stated before – and I agreed with – fallen human nature will always seek its own will and way. The Vatican/Jesuits are a very visible outworking of that same theme… their false religion has killed tens of millions of innocent people over the last five centuries, but what would I know?
Cain and Abel are a case in point – a true sacrifice, ordained by God and a false one, concocted by man. Who killed who? But then again, I’ve got no ‘You Tube’ video or a credible website with all the ‘facts’ on it, so I can’t “prove” that happened either…
This situation (man’s sinful, fallen nature wanting to control,) can never be ‘fixed’ by people wearing religious robes – of any kind.
Do you really believe that the Pope is just a ‘nice old guy’, who’s spending the evening of his life, shaking hands with people like Brian, and “spreading the gospel”?
Honestly, Icarus – your ignorance is astounding… perhaps it is you who are “too lazy” to go and face the “facts” and do some homework for a change..?
The Jesuits ARE the Vatican Icarus… holy writ tells me that Papal system and all that it entails, is Antichrist, and church history in the last 1700 years confirms it… they are the facts!
Hi Austin, I’m not upset! A bit of discussion is healthy. However I’ll say my piece and be done with it, we won’t see eye to eye on this and there’s no point going round and round. There are already too many occasional visitors to this and C3CW who do that already. I’m no “Steve”.
First of all let me blow the “Bank of America is 51% Jesuit owned” from your link out of the water. It’s not. I know the bank well (since before the Nations merger) and they publish their ownership structure on their IR page. Banking was typically a Jewish occupation though, they did run some big banks like Lehman’s, Goldman’s Solomon Bros etc.
I know the Vatican is run by Jesuits, but the website listed “various central banks“, i.e. plural. So what other central banks do they run? I was hoping by cutting out the Vatican you’d name one, because the Vatican is obvious. What large companies do they run? I know a lot about world markets and there are none I can think of that are run or owned by Jesuits, certainly not commercial companies. Without a doubt they would be involved in humanitarian type orgs.
By the way, as per that website, NATO is not “Jesuit controlled”. I knew the brother of a recent Secretary General, and I know a bit about NATO.
With regards to education, Jesuits are known as intellectuals, there’s nothing new there, and their schools and universities are very very good. I’ve worked with graduates from Georgetown and the Jesuit Oxbridge colleges. one was a Jew (did his 9 months in the Israeli army and everything) and the others were all atheists. Going to Georgetown or any of the other schools does not turn you into a raging Catholic.
US politics does however have strong Catholic influence. You can thank the Kennedy’s for that and other Irish immigrants. I am not sure why people are surprised there are a lot of Catholics around, it used to be the dominant Western religion and yes they spent a lot of time and energy sending missionaries out around the world. In a time when there was mass migration between Europe and North America people would have sought RC churches as places to gather and meet other people and for a while they probably became more Catholic again than they were. And of course the RC church spent a lot of time and effort sending missionaries around the world. Nothing new there.
My comment was purely around what I see as sensationalist, unsupported websites. (Newtaste, FYI that is unlike C3CW who tend to add supporting links!) You might think I’m lazy or just have my head in the sand, but I put it in the same bucket as the hysterical Pentecostal prophesies that used to be repeated over and over to me. They never came true. Jesus did not return in 1990, or 1995. Iran did not start WW3 two years ago and it turns out Obama might not be the antichrist. I also don’t have a bar code tattooed on my forehead, which is great. It takes a bit more than a few exclamation marks after a random fact on a website on a website to convince me.
So when I see a website that says “Jesuits control x,y,z” when I’m pretty sure they don’t I thought the right thing to do was hold up a red flag and say “be careful with this stuff”.
Anyway I could write and write but I think I’ve said enough. I’m not making excuses for the RC church, we all know what their issues are. But unless someone gives me names and facts of something that would be surprising, I’m likely going to disagree and let it pass. As mentioned at the start, I have no intention of starting an internet battle here.
@Icarus – “I know the bank well (since before the Nations merger) and they publish their ownership structure on their IR page.”
The Jesuits own shareholdings – controlling shares, which are listed under the names of hundreds of different “shelf companies” – you are not going to see Bergoglio’s name on some company manifest somewhere – they are far too smart for that. That’s how they hide their involvement.
Where their hidden involvement has, on rare occasions, been exposed, it is usually something like pharmaceuticals and other facets of large scale manufacturing.
“I knew the brother of a recent Secretary General, and I know a bit about NATO.”
It’s the bits that you don’t know that will get you into trouble Icarus…
I turn 55 this coming November, have been a believer since 1978, and have been watching the world situation for over 30 years, and. in that time I have seen ‘time honoured’ people, places (churches) and events turn sour, people forsake the Lord, true preachers turn into false prophets – the rise of the false cults, and the RC ‘church’ really begin to bare its teeth. Prophecy fulfilled in my time… I don’t need videos or blog sites or websites as proof…
Icarus, you seem to want to hose it all down, but you can’t – the crimes against humanity committed by the Vatican and its minions are innumerable – they simply cannot be dismissed by sweeping statements, or ignorant excuses.
@anitameg explained it succinctly, churchwatcher backed it up with the confessions of the Reformers, some of them paid for in the blood of martyrs from those times, and I’ve put a line under it all, but you choose to ignore it…
Just because some information appears on a “conspiracy website” doesn’t make it untrue – where do you think those kind of websites get some of their information from? Credible ones, so that when they ‘borrow’ the good parts, it’s just to give them that extra bit of ‘streetcred’ they otherwise may not have had.
The Vatican/Jesuits are far more evil and influential than you would give them credit for… ignoring this won’t make them go away, and anyone who knows the truth concerning them would say the same.
The blood of the martyrs, spilled since the days of Wycliffe until now, is not the end result of a chain reaction of ‘conspiracy theories’ Icarus…
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it…
Here’s a thought. A person, who is ultimately unknown, claims that he will not believe what he reads without proof. A fair and sensible statement. However, that same person also makes assertions about their connections to various well known and influential people without any proof and the reader is left to deduce whether this person is reliable or not. You can’t. It’s not possible because they are posting under an alias. The very point that Icarus makes about not trusting internet sites could also be applied to his own claims. They are unverifiable.
The internet is filled with charlatans and hypocrites who claim to be something they are not and disseminate information which is often outrageous lies and less often the objective truth. How do we determine if it is true or not? You can check other websites, you can do endless information searches, you can talk to the individuals who make the claims etc. It just isn’t possible to do that much research. Nobody has THAT much spare time and if they have, well, let’s just say they probably need to get a day job. So you have to fall back on godly wisdom and the still small voice of the Holy Spirit. And I might add that talking to other Christians can be really helpful in putting things into perspective. You may never know the objective truth, but you can get the general gist of what is happening.
Obama might be the antichrist but he probably isn’t. Prince Charles might be the antichrist but he probably isn’t either. Anyone who makes claims which don’t come true, ie. Peter Ruckman (who believes in aliens) and his 1990 false prediction of Christ’s return can be pretty much ruled out as a reliable source. I have seen some hilarious internet sites which get a huge amount of traffic making really DUMB claims about the world being run by reptilians (lizard shape shifters) and other ‘facts’. Yes, I am looking at you David Icke.
The thing of it is, the outrageous claims cause the actual truth (which is unbelievable to the rest of the world) to be brought into disrepute. People tend to use the obvious twaddle to discredit the less obvious truth. And often the actual truth is buried in a mountain of misinformation so high it would take a month to sift it.
“Obama might be the antichrist but he probably isn’t.”
Of course Obama is the anti-Christ.
This man has done his research. 😛
john john said:
“I knew the brother of a recent Secretary General….”
Yeah, I’m sure he’s going to volunteer any important information to you.
“Obama might be the antichrist but he probably isn’t.”
Of course Obama is the anti-Christ.
This man has done his research. :P”
…and of course, Churchwatcher put it on his blog because he ‘believes’ it too 🙂