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bobbie houston, Brian Houston, Bruce Downes, Catholic, Downes, Hillsong, Hillsong Church, houston, pope, Roman Catholic, Roman Catholic Church, Roman Catholicisim, The Catholic Guy
October 31 – Reformation Day. The events leading up to Reformation Day (from Ligonier) were as follows:
Semper deformanda
An heir of Bishop Augustine of Hippo, Martin Luther is one of the most significant figures God has raised up since that time. This law student, turned Augustinian monk, became the center of a great controversy after his 95 theses were copied and distributed throughout Europe. Initially protesting the pope’s attempt to sell salvation, Luther’s study of Scripture soon led him to oppose the church of Rome on issues including the primacy of the Bible over church tradition and the means by which we are found righteous in the sight of God.
This last issue is probably Luther’s most significant contribution to Christian theology. Though preached clearly in the New Testament and found in the writings of many of the church fathers, the medieval bishops and priests had largely forgotten the truth that our own good works can by no means merit God’s favor. Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone, and good works result from our faith, they are not added to it as the grounds for our right standing in the Lord’s eyes (Eph. 2:8-10). Justification, God’s declaration that we are not guilty, forgiven of sin, and righteous in His sight comes because through our faith alone the Father imputes, or reckons to our account, the perfect righteousness of Christ (2 Cor. 5:21).’
In light of this we ask the question: is Hillsong taking us back to the dark ages? Are we seeing a gospel of inclusion that will eventually embrace the homosexual movement, Islam and Catholicism? An inclusive gospel that doesn’t require preaching the foundational Christian gospel of faith and repentance, a gospel that brought about the Reformation? Has something so subtle been going on that many Christians aren’t even seeing it?
With very little discernment, most Christians today can look at a picture of a golden calf being worshiped and know that this is a sin and an abomination before God.
They would not want anything to do with it, they would not show support to it in any way. They would question both their church and their pastor if they showed support for such blasphemy. Yet exactly the opposite is happening today in Hillsong.
All who make idols are nothing, and the things they treasure are worthless. Those who would speak up for them are blind; they are ignorant, to their own shame. Isaiah 44:9
They set up their abominable idols in the house that bears my Name and defiled it. Jeremiah 32:34
What if I was to tell you that Hillsong show support for an ‘idol, a false god, an abomination’? This article will come as a shock to some and will open many eyes to the reality of a modern-day ‘golden calf’.
The problem with Hillsong followers is that they don’t understand what the Catholic Church teaches. 99.9% of them would not even know what the ‘Eucharist’ and ‘Monstrance’ are. If they did, they would realise that it is another ‘Jesus’ that the Roman Catholics follow and worship, it is an idol that they bow down to.
Many people reading this are going to say ‘so what, what’s wrong with Hillsong supporting Catholics?’ To answer that question, we need to cover some basics first.
We need to define what a ‘Protestant Christian’ is. A Protestant Christian is someone who ‘protests’ the Catholic faith, not embraces it or shows support to it.
“Protestantism is a religious movement that encompasses forms of Christian faith and practice that originated with doctrines and religious, political, and ecclesiological impulses of the Protestant Reformation. The Reformation was a movement against what Protestants considered to be the errors of the Roman Catholic Church.[1] It is one of the largest divisions of Christianity”
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestantism, (Accessed 31/10/2014.)
Some people are going to argue that we should unite as ‘brothers and sisters in Christ’ after all, we all believe in Jesus don’t we? However the Bible says that Jesus brought division not unity and because the Catholic Church has a different doctrine than that of Christ, the Bible says we are not to even greet them or receive them into our house as we share in their evil deeds by doing this.
Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you , but division. From now on there will be five in once family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. Luke 12:51-52 (NIV)
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house, nor great him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. John 1:9-11 (Emphasis ours)
I will be showing later in this article how Hillsong show support for this blasphemy. Even if it is out of ignorance that they support this, it still needs to be exposed. The Bible says they are ignorant, to their own shame.
All who make idols are nothing, and the things they treasure are worthless. Those who would speak up for them are blind; they are ignorant, to their own shame. Isaiah 44:9
In order to fully understand, next we need to define what a Catholic believes.
Below is Pope John Paul II holding what is called a Monstrance. It is used to display a round wafer of bread, called the ‘host’, ‘victim’ or ‘Eucharist’. It is used in what is called the ‘Mass’, ‘Lord’s Supper’, ‘Communion’ or ‘Eucharistic meal’. The Catholic Church teaches this wafer of bread turns into the actual body of Christ when consecrated by a priest during the Mass, this is the ‘Mystery of the Eucharist’. This is the Roman Catholic ‘Christ’.
At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’, or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. Matthew 24:23
I would encourage anyone reading this to do their own research and see for themselves that this is ‘another Jesus’ – an abomination before the Lord.
“In the eucharistic mystery, renewed on every altar, Jesus makes himself truly present.”
Source: Pope Benedict XVI, Sep 22 2008, Catholic News Service
“The Eucharist is… the perfect fulfillment of Jesus’ promise to remain with us.”
Source: Pope John Paul II, Catholic News Service. Volume: 35 Issue: 7 – 10/23/04
This process of creating the Creator is called Transubstantiation.
How long, O men, will you turn my glory into shame? How long will you love delusions and seek false gods? Psalms 4:2
“The pope told those gathered for the morning Mass that they should be filled with joy knowing that “each day the sacrifice of Christ” will be offered on the new altar…..On this altar, he will continue to sacrifice himself in the sacrament of the Eucharist for our salvation and that of the whole world.”
Source: Pope Benedict XVI, Catholic News Service, Published 22/09/2008.
So now that we have covered some basics, we can see that the Roman Catholic Church have ‘another Jesus’, an idol that they worship and sacrifice to at every Mass.
You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath…. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me. Exodus 20:3-5 (NIV)
How is Hillsong involved in this blasphemy? How do they support it?
In order to answer we need to go back to the beginning….
Even though we have covered this before, it is worth covering it again. This is what Brian Houston had to say when Pope Benedict was elected in 2005.
Brian Houston is calling Christians to pray for and honour a man who claims to be ‘Christ on earth’; promotes idol worship; promotes praying to the dead (Saints); and claims to forgive sin! Yes, we are to pray for our enemies that they may be saved; however we are not to pray for the things that Brian is praying for.
Brian says ‘Pope Benedict XVI is a spiritual and experienced leader and is now head over a significant portion of the Christian community’
Really Brian? Having another god that you sacrifice on every altar is ‘Christian’?
Also, ‘We pray too that this papacy, like those before it, is marked by a commitment to seeing the Christian message continue to go forward and people changed by the power and truth of the Gospel’.
Really Brian? You want to see the ‘Catholic’ Christian message go forward? The same message that teaches that men are to confess their sin to a Priest and not to Jesus for forgiveness, the same message that teaches Mary is a co-redeemer and the same message that by-passes true repentance?
He does say that, ‘Obviously, as Protestants, our views are considerably different to the Pope’s on a number of issues’, but what issues? Do you ever hear Brian speaking out about the Catholic false god?
Next he says, ‘as Protestants we share a common desire to exalt Christ’, but which Christ? Does Brian mean to exalt the Pope who claims to be ‘Christ on earth’ and to be infallible? Or does he mean exalt the ‘Eucharist’ in a Monstrance, an idol and an abomination before God?
“We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.”
Pope Leo XIII, in an Encyclical letter dated 20/06/1894. (Emphasis ours.)
“The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ, hidden under a veil of flesh.”
The Catholic National, July 1895. (Emphasis ours.)
December 12, 1984 the LA Times quoted Pope John Paul II as saying, “Don’t go to God for forgiveness of sins, come to me.”
I am not sure that the Popes would be willing to return the favour and tell Brian Houston that they applaud his commitment to the going forward of the gospel. Because the Popes have declared that there is ‘no salvation outside of the Roman Catholic Church’. http://catholicism.org/category/outside-the-church-there-is-no-salvation
(Then again – Brian Houston teaches something similar.)
“We, as God’s church, become a great net of salvation, bringing answers, hope, and love to those who are yet to believe in him [Jesus].”
Source: Brian Houston, For This I Was Born, Thoman Nelson Publishing, Published 2008, pg. 16.
Next we come to World Youth Day 2008. This was a major Catholic event in Sydney that even the Pope himself attended.
As we covered previously, Hillsong again showed support to the Catholic Church by allowing Darlene Zschech and their youth band ‘United’ to perform and lead worship.
“We see World Youth Day as a great opportunity to serve the Catholic Church in its vision to present the gospel and reach out to our city, our nation and our world in unity.”
Protestant Christians may feel that it was appropriate for Darlene and United to perform at a Catholic event, as they may have the opportunity to share the true gospel message. However by just attending, they align themselves with the Catholic Church and show support for her false gospel teachings.
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. Ephesians 5:11
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6:14 (NIV)
Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins… Revelation 15:4
Come out of her my people! Run for your lives! Run from the fierce anger of the Lord. Jeremiah 51:45
Here is Darlene Zschech and United performing at World Youth Day 2008.
Source: Uploaded by ReceiveThePowerLive, Official Receive The Power Live (Part 4a), Youtube, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SEWYeO3Gas, Published 11/5/2010. (Accessed 07/09/2014.)
Here is Joel Houston (United) performing at World Youth Day 2008.
Source: Uploaded by ReceiveThePowerLive, Official Receive The Power Live (Part 4d), Youtube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8qbJs24ot0, Published 11/5/2010. (Accessed 07/09/2014.)
At the same event, on the same night and on the same stage that Hillsong performed and led Catholics in worship, Bishop Joe Crech said the following blasphemous statement, while leading Mass (The Sacrifice):
“We are going to bring Jesus here [points to an altar that has been set up] we are going to bring the Blessed Sacrament here and we are going to put Him here [again gestures to the same altar]. Because this ‘god’ wants to be with us, this ‘god’ wants to be among us, this ‘god’ wants to touch us, this ‘god’ wants to heal us. Thank you Lord Jesus! Thank you!” (Emphasis ours)
Source: Uploaded by ReceiveThePowerLive, Youtube, [Official] Receive the power Live (part 10a), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccl0NDMIO4U, Published 11/5/2010. (Accessed 07/09/2014)
Please watch this entire video to see the shocking blasphemy and idol worship that members of Hillsong attended.
Remember from earlier that the ‘Blessed Sacrament’ is another ‘Jesus’ and an idol. Notice it’s not the God of heaven that wants to be with them, touch them and heal them; it’s the ‘idol god’ in the Monstrance, on the altar.
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6 (NIV)
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12 (NIV) (Emphasis added)
In the last video we saw the ‘idol’, the ‘Catholic Jesus’ being brought out and placed on the altar.
This is the ‘jesus’ that Hillsong led Catholics in worship for, whether they knew it or not, they assisted Catholics in worshiping this false god and idol!
Thus saith the LORD, “Learn not the way of the heathen…” Jeremiah 10:2 (KJV)
Cursed is anyone who makes an idol – a thing detestable to the Lord… Deuteronomy 27:15 (NIV)
Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. 1 Corinthians 10:14 (NIV)
I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols. Isaiah 42:8 (NIV)
They set up their abominable idols in the house that bears my Name and defiled it. Jeremiah 32:34
The Lord says “These people come near to me with their mouth and honour me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is based on merely human rules they have been taught.” Isaiah 29:13 (NIV)
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house, nor great him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. 2 John 1:9-11
By Hillsong taking part in this Catholic event, they are sharing in her evil deeds!
After this false ‘god’ is placed on the altar, they burn incense to it.
Yet my people have forgotten me; they burn incense to worthless idols, which made them stumble in their ways and in the ancient paths… Jeremiah 18:15
The second commandment:
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them… Exodus 20:4-5 (NKJ)
Most Christians don’t realise that the Catholic Church has taken the 2nd Commandment out of their Bible and thus changed the Word of God, allowing this idol worship.
This does not seem to bother Hillsong!
You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. Deuteronomy 4:2 (Emphasis added)
How long, O men, will you turn my glory into shame? How long will you love delusions and seek false gods? Psalms 4:2
All who make idols are nothing, and the things they treasure are worthless. Those who would speak up for them are blind; they are ignorant, to their own shame. Isaiah 44:9
This is what the current Pope has to say about this idol.
First, the Eucharist affects the way we see others. In his life, Christ manifested his love by being with people, and by sharing their desires and problems. So too the Eucharist brings us together with others – young and old, poor and affluent, neighbours and visitors. The Eucharist calls us to see all of them as our brothers and sisters, and to see in them the face of Christ.
Second, in the Eucharist we experience the forgiveness of God and the call to forgive. We celebrate the Eucharist not because we are worthy, but because we recognize our need for God’s mercy, incarnate in Jesus Christ. In the Eucharist, we renew the gift of the Body and Blood of Christ for the remission of sins, and our hearts are enlarged to receive and show mercy.
Third, in the Eucharistic celebration, we are nourished as the Christian community by Christ’s Word and Life. It is from the Eucharist that the Church receives continually her identity and mission. It is in our celebration that Christ fills us with his grace, so that our lives may be consonant with our worship of God in the Liturgy. Let us live the Eucharist in a spirit of faith and prayer, with the certainty that the Lord will bring to fulfillment all that he has promised.
Source: From Vatican Radio, Pope Francis’ words at his general audience on Wednesday February 12th 2014 http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-francis-eucharist-leads-us-to-help-those-most, Published/Transcribed 12/02/2014. (Accessed 31/10/2014.)
Not only does the Catholic Church teach that Jesus himself is the Eucharist in flesh, but they teach that man is to adore and worship the Eucharist or ‘Blessed Sacrament’. This is worshiping something that is not God and is in fact worshiping a ‘host’ and a ‘sun’. Ask yourself the question, is this the Son of God or a ‘sun god’? Just because you call something ‘Jesus’ does not make it ‘Jesus’.
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death. Revelation 21:8 (NIV) (Emphasis added)
Next, the blasphemy continues at World Youth Day by everyone bowing down before the ‘idol god’ in worship. Again this is the same stage that Hillsong had just performed on!
When was the last time Hillsong spoke out against this sin of idolatry? Instead of speaking out against it, they choose to support it.
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6:14 (NIV)
“Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them…” Romans 1:32
Below, you can see Pope Benedict at World Youth Day 2008 holding up their ‘another Jesus’ god.
And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.” Matthew 24:4
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their FRUIT you will recognize them… Matthew 7:15-16 (NIV)
ROMAN CATHOLICISM PROMOTED AT HILLSONG CONFERENCE 2014
Next we come to Hillsong’s recent ‘No Other Name’ Conference 2014.
Hillsong seem to be going out of their way to help Catholics believe that their ‘jesus’ is the same Jesus of the Bible. Hillsong provided a Catholic Senior Pastoral Leader, so Catholics attending the conference can understand the conference in a Catholic setting!
This is Bruce Downes aka ‘The Catholic guy’. He took a master class at the Sydney Australia 2014 ‘No Other Name’ Conference.
Bruce Downes openly admits that his ‘Jesus’ is in the Eucharist (see below picture of his book). And Hillsong still allowed him to take a Masterclass and speak about a false, blasphemous gospel that by-passes true repentance.
“We meet Jesus in the Eucharist every time we are present. Regardless of how we are feeling about Eucharist, Jesus awaits us in power and with love.”
Source: The Catholic Guy, The Catholic Guy Store, http://shop.thecatholicguy.com/products-page/cds/jesus-present-in-the-eucharist-cd/, Accessed 07/09/2014. (Emphasis added.)
Hillsong’s philosophy simply appears to be this: claim you ‘believe’ in Jesus and no more questions will be asked.
We should be speaking out against this even if it offends. How else will Catholics be saved? They certainly will not be saved at a Hillsong Conference if they are given a Catholic Leader to speak to them. How else will Hillsong turn from their ways?
Again, why are we called ‘Protestants’? Because we Protest the Catholic faith, not embrace it or accept it.
By Hillsong’s own actions and statements, how can they call themselves a Protestant church? By their fruit you will recognize them!
“Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them…” Romans 1:32
YOU DON’T THINK HILLSONG HAS AN AGENDA?
Do you want to know what makes Hillsong worse than Roman Catholicism?
While Hillsong parades itself as a Protestant Christian denomination, Hillsong’s official ‘NO OTHER NAME – Your Hillsong Conference Diary’ say that The Catholic Guy’s Masterclass will be on, ‘Contextualising Hillsong Conference into a Catholic setting’.
Here is the official Hillsong ‘Daily Masterclass Schedule’, showing ‘The Catholic Guy’.
Read the pdf here:
NO OTHER NAME – Your Hillsong Conference Diary
Source: Hillsong Church, Hillsong Conference Diary 2014, http://hillsongconference.com/sydney/HSC14_DIARY_WEB.pdf (viewed 7/9/2014)
So in other words, Hillsong does’t want Catholics to feel uncomfortable. They would not want them to hear the real Gospel of Jesus Christ and possibly be saved. Instead Hillsong prefers to call the Roman Catholic ‘Golden Calf’ deity Jesus too. Remember that Satan manifested himself as a serpent, the most subtle beast of the field. For Hillsong to behave this deceitfully and subtly is flat out satanic.
What’s next? A Muslim leader taking a Masterclass so that Muslims can hear about the Conference in a Muslim setting?
By using a Catholic Snr Leader, Hillsong are saying to all Catholics, that they don’t have a problem with what they believe. In fact Hillsong will even provide support for your faith and your false god.
The following quotes are from a Hillsong email that clearly show where they stand on the matter.
“This year we are excited to announce and personally invite you to a new session called ‘The Catholic Guy’ – Catholics & Hillsong – An Amazing Partnership.”
“Bruce is a committed Catholic who has been deeply affected by Hillsong Church”
“Senior Pastoral Leader Bruce Downes joins us this year to host this session specifically designed for the Catholics at conference”
“In this session, he will help you take the experience of Hillsong Conference and interpret it into your Catholic world”
“…you will be inspired to hear about Bruce’s ministry and influence today and his practical hints on transferring topics like vision casting, excellence, team, culture and evangelism into the Catholic church context.”
Source: Google groups, forum: worship lifestyle, forwarded email from Hillsong conference registrations department, https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/worship-lifestyle/OvQ5wkVPZvc (Accessed 08/10/2014.) (Emphasis added.)
Below you can see a screen shot of The Catholic Guy’s FaceBook photo, advertising of his master class.
Source: the Catholic Guy, the Catholic Guy’s photos, FaceBook, https://www.facebook.com/theCatholicGuyMinistry/photos/pb.88750959996.-2207520000.1414744042./10150403114834997/?type=3&theater, Published 01/07/2014. (Accessed 31/10/2014.)
Below, you can see ‘The Catholic Guy’ Instagram screen shot showing him taking his Hillsong Masterclass.
http://instagram.com/p/p7MSUPGoT1/
Furthermore, how will Catholics know to turn from their blasphemous, graven images and idols when Hillsong uses these same images to promote their 2014 ‘No other Name’ conference?
Source: Hillsong Image Source: Hillsong City Campus/Syd, 2014 Conference advertisement, facebook, https://www.facebook.com/HillsongCity/photos/pb.259165110795160.-2207520000.1408936643./764804073564592/?type=3&theater, Published 17/05/2014. (Accessed 09/10/14.)
God is so clear on the issue of pagan idolatry and Hillsong clearly does not care.
… so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman… Deuteronomy 4:16 (NIV)
It’s a sad, sad day when Hillsong has ‘become corrupt’ and use for themselves ‘an image’ that is forbidden by God. When Hillsong put ‘No Other Name’ on a blasphemous graven image of the Roman Catholic cult, they are saying ‘this is our God’.
This image of the ‘Sacred Heart of Jesus’ is an image of yet another idol that the Catholic Church teaches is to be worshiped. it is another abomination. This is what the Catholic Church teaches about this image of the ‘Sacred Heart’.
“How appropriate this is, for devotion to the Eucharist and to the Sacred Heart are in fact one thing, inseparable”. Source: http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0947.htm, Accessed 31/10/2014. (Emphasis ours.)
“Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus infallibly leads souls to the Eucharist…..So it is that the Sacred Heart, the Holy Eucharist, and Love itself, are one and the same thing.”
Source: http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0947.htm, Accessed 31/10/2014. (Emphasis ours.)
Once again the scriptures say,
The images of their gods you are to burn in the fire. Do not covet the silver and gold on them, and do not take it for yourselves, or you will be ensnared by it, for it is detestable to the Lord your God. Do not bring a detestable thing into your house or you, like it, will be set apart for destruction. Regard it as vile and utterly detest it, for it is set apart for destruction. Deuteronomy 7:26-26 NIV (Emphasis added)
The devotion to the Sacred Heart is the same as the devotion the Eucharist! When Christianity is confronted with idolatry, Hillsong not only tells Christians not to “Regard it as vile [or to] utterly detest it” as God clearly instructs. Hillsong uses that pagan idolatry for their own devotional and promotional material. Are they not showing that they are setting themselves apart for destruction?
This next picture is a screen shot of Bobbie Houston’s personal Instagram. It shows Hillsong’s ‘devotional’ booklet with the image of the Sacred Heart. Next to that is a picture of a Catholic devotional for comparison.
Source: Bobbie Houston, Instagram photo, Instagram, http://instagram.com/p/oN0G_voY8t/?modal=true, Published 20/05/2014 (Accessed 25/8/2014.)
Source: Other image above – Catholic devotion, http://www.fatima.org/essentials/whatucando/sac&immhrts/tocdevsac&immhrts.asp.
Whether it was intentional or out of ignorance, by putting ‘No Other Name’ and ‘Devotional’ on such a graven image, Hillsong are saying our God is the same as the Roman Catholic god. They may as well be using a picture of a Monstrance and putting ‘No Other Name’ on it.
Some people may say that Hillsong did not intentionally use an image of the Catholic ‘Sacred Heart’. Well if there is any doubt, in this next Hillsong ‘No Other Name’ promotional video, it shows that not only did they intentionally use this graven image but they made the ‘Sacred Heart’ beat (at 45sec in video).
They also include several other blasphemous Catholic idols and images with the name of Jesus. (See below screen grabs from the video.)
Notice the creepy church worship underneath the video (emphasis added):
There is NO OTHER NAME whereby men and women find their salvation, sense of purpose and eternal homecoming.
Hillsong Conference exists to champion the cause of the local Church across the earth. She exists to water the divine potential within pastors and leaders and believers alike so that together we can each know and fulfil The Great Commission given by Christ in Mathew 28.
Source: Youtube, Hillsong Church, No Other Name Hillsong Conference 2014, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-YQRANOvhE, published 2/7/2013 (Accessed 07/09/2014)
Why is the ‘No Other Name’ campaign promoting Roman Catholic pagan idolatry?
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8 NIV (Emphasis Added)
“…However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?” Luke 18:8
Many will say to me on that day ‘Lord, Lord did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Matthew 7:22-23
Below are two photos from Hillsong’s facebook page of the Hillsong Conference, USA, 18 October 2014. These photos show Bobbie Houston with Catholic, graven images of the ‘Sacred Heart’. It’s not like they are trying to hide it!
Source: Hillsong Church, Conference photos, FaceBook, https://www.facebook.com/hillsongchurch/phot/10/14os/a.10153244760415410.1073741867.95374650409/10153244761325410/?type=1&theatre, Published 18/10/14. (Accessed 21/10/14.)
Source: Hillsong Church, Conference photos, FaceBook, https://www.facebook.com/hillsongchurch/photos/a.10153244760415410.1073741867.95374650409/10153244762770410/?type=1&theatre, Published 18/10/14. (Accessed 21/10/14.)
Is it just a coincidence that Hillsong also used a photo of the Vatican in their 2014 Conference ‘No Other Name’ Conference advertisement? You decide.
Source: Hillsong Newcastle, Conference advertisement, Facebook, https://www.facebook.com/hillsongnewcastle/photos/pb.170870839743187.-2207520000.1408940430./317317051765231/?type=3&theater, Published 05/06/2014 (Accessed 25/08/2014.)
Source: Hillsong Hills Campus/Sydney, Conference advertisement, facebook, https://www.facebook.com/HillsongHills/photos/pb.211290442270334.-2207520000.1408936424./673536412712399/?type=3&theater, Published 14/05/2014 (Accessed 25/08/2014.)
It breaks my heart that Hillsong has compromised their beliefs so much that they are using such blasphemy. It breaks my heart that this article has to even be written.
This is not an article to point a finger at a Church, it is an article to call a church to repentance. It’s not a matter of proving a point, it’s a matter of eternal salvation or eternal damnation.
This article is not written with a grudge, it is not written out of spite, it is written with a broken heart.
Better is open rebuke that hidden love. Proverbs 27:5 (NIV)
As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. 1 Timothy 5:20 (ESV)
Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 2 Timothy 4:2-4 (NIV)
Hillsong Church Watch 
Ummm… did anyone see the instagram pics on Joel Houstons twitter of him and Carl Lentz dressed in Halloween gear, Carl Lentzs hat says “Cocain and Caviar”, the kid is dressed like a dragon (He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss Rev 20:2) and they’re both doing the forks symbol which symbolizes the two horns of the devil.
Joel is such a coward and cant say Happy Halloween so he covers up the evil by saying “Happy get dressed up and get free candy day” Its still Halloween whatever you call it!
How can this Lentz be a preacher, when was the last time he actually sat down and read the whole bible through. I really don’t think these guys are actually born again with the HOLY spirit. Geee, demons, witches and ugly evil faces dancing around bonfires symbolizes Satan and his demons and all the evil being bound in hell fire. Why would any Christian want to have anything to do with a demonic celebration? Don’t they get how close this world system is coming to an end, have they no fear of God and how he hates all things evil and demonic? Jesus died to get rid of evil, why are they celebrating it? God isn’t celebrating Halloween so why is their “church”???
It wasn’t a pic of Lentz, it was a pic of Joe Termini http://instagram.com/joetermini
That aside, it is still shocking that they did this! I wonder if this is part of Brian Houston ‘Pioneering Spirit’ to reach the world.
Why work so hard to fit in when you were called to be set apart? 2 Cor.6:17
They will have to stand before God and be judged for all that they have done. The sad thing is these people refuse to listen to the truth and only hear what their itching ears want to hear.
2 Thessalonians 2:11 ‘For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.’
“False teachers are God’s judgment on people who don’t want God, but in the name of religion, plan on getting everything their carnal heart desires. That’s why a Joel Osteen is raised up, those people who sit under him are not victims of him, he is the judgment of God upon them because they want exactly what he wants and it’s not God” – Paul Washer
Totally agree, Shocker. No Christian and certainly no church should be celebrating Halloween. It represents everything evil, it’s not just a bit of harmless fun!
Wow! I was trying to think hard of something really judgmental to say about “Halloweensong” but I couldn’t – then this passage of scripture came into my mind:
“For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds…” (2 Cor. 11:13-15)
There might never be a better time throughout each year than Halloween, to sus out some of the false prophets on the radar…
i knew halloween corresponded with a major satanic ‘holiday’, but i couldnt remember which one.
i havent seen this site before but it explains what i was trying to think of halloween..
http://blogs.christianpost.com/real-eyes/halloween-third-highest-day-on-satanic-calendar-says-anton-lavey-12752/
as usual some ‘Christians’ (non bereans) are getting invovled in junk they know nothing about, let alone taking time to research..
at some point, all this ignorance will probably cost those who choose to remain ignorant of everything going on.
nfg
Was very interested to see your documentation on the Roman Church. The Lord brought me out of the RCC some 42 years ago (I am 62 now ). I was raised RCC, went to RCC Grade and High School. Was Confirmed in the RCC, was an Altar boy and even a Eucharistic Lay Minister for the RCC briefly when I was in the Air Force.
I am totally appalled when I see any bible believing protestant group in any way uniting with the RCC and their so called ecumenism. Galatians 1:8 speaks so strongly to me. Either people that get involved with the RCC do not know it’s teachings, do not know or understand the very firm statement of Galatians 1:8………..or just don’t care. Having been raised in the RCC and also having studied my bible quite fervently through the years the errors of the RCC are extremely blatant and disgusting to me.
Me too! It seems that the exRC’s Really know about the Vatican and the Jesuits.
Check out Noise of Thunder Radio with Chris Pinto, an exRC.
J.J.
Carl Lentz did promote Halloween on his own Instagram
Seeing that Hillsong is embracing Catholicism, even to have a Catholic Leader taking a Master Class at their ‘No Other Name’ Conference, (as the article points out) It cannot be a huge surprise that Halloween is connected back to the Catholic Church.
“Halloween” is a name that means nothing by itself. It is a contraction of “All Hallows Eve,” and it designates the vigil of All Hallows Day, more commonly known today as All Saints Day. (“Hallow,” as a noun, is an old English word for saint. As a verb, it means to make something holy or to honor it as holy.) All Saints Day, November 1, is a Holy Day of Obligation, and both the feast and the vigil have been celebrated since the early eighth century, when they were instituted by Pope Gregory III in Rome. (A century later, they were extended to the Church at large by Pope Gregory IV.) http://catholicism.about.com/od/thecatholicfamily/p/Halloween.htm
Hillsong’s road is leading to Rome.
Pope Francis celebrates ‘All Hallows Eve’ aka ‘All Saints Day’. What’s so bad about celebrating Saints? Well a Catholic Saint is merely a person who has been dead for more than 5 years and has performed two miracles from the grave, when people have prayed to them and not to God! The day is about honouring these people and not God.
http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2014/11/01/pope_celebrates_all_saints_day_in_verano/1109948
You might like to listen to Christian apologist Matt Slick from http://carm.org/ discussing his own occult experiences as an unbeliever and his godly wisdom on this topic subsequent to salvation.
http://www.janetmefferdpremium.com/2014/10/31/janet-mefferd-radio-show-20141031-hr-1/
And from his website:
Where did Halloween come from? Can a Christian celebrate it? Matt Slick
“Halloween is celebrated by millions of people in multiple countries. For most it is a fun time for kids who put on costumes and going door-to-door to get candy. But it is also known as a time of witches, ghouls, goblins, and ghosts. On one hand, some Christians see Halloween as a harmless time of fun and on the other, a ghastly and demonically inspired night that should be avoided.
As Christians, there is a lot of debate on whether or not we should participate in Halloween. Is it alright to go trick-or-treating? Can we dress our kids up in costumes and send them out door-to-door? If we do any of this, are we celebrating an evil holiday?
Halloween’s Origins
The word Halloween is derived from the term, “All Hallows Eve,” which occurred on Oct. 31. “All Saints Day” or “All Hallows Day” was the next Day, Nov. 1st. Therefore, Halloween is the eve of All Saints Day.
Some say that the origins of Halloween can be traced back to ancient Ireland and Scotland around the time of Christ. On Oct. 31st the Celts celebrated the day because it was when animal herders would move their animals into barns and pens and prepare to ride out the winter. This was also the time of the crop harvests. This annual change of season and lifestyle was marked by a festival called Samhain, pronounced ‘sow-ane’ (Sow rhymes with cow) which means ‘end of summer.’
There was much superstition associated with this time of change, including the belief in fairies and that the spirits of the dead wandered around looking for bodies to inhabit. Since the living did not want to be possessed by spirits, they dressed up in costumes and paraded around the streets making loud noises to confuse and frighten the spirits away. In addition, the new year began for the Celts on Nov. 1. So, the day of Samhain was believed to be a day that was in neither the year past or the year to come. Since it was in between, chaos ruled on that day. Often, people would pull practical jokes on others as a result.
Later, around the 5th century, as the Catholic Church developed and moved into the area, instead of adding a new day to celebrate, it took over the Samhain celebration. Nov. 1st became “All Hallows Day” where all the saints of the Catholic church were honored. Oct 31 was “All Hallows Eve” which became “Halloween”. A later custom developed where people would go door-to-door on Nov. 2 requesting small cakes in exchange for the promise of saying prayers for some of the dead relatives of each house. This arose out of the religious belief that the dead were in a state of limbo before they went to heaven or hell and that the prayers of the living could influence the outcome. This may have been the precursor to Trick-or-Treat.
The Jack-O-Lantern apparently comes from Irish folklore about a man named Jack who tricked the devil into climbing a tree. Once the devil was in the tree, Jack carved a cross on the trunk preventing the devil from coming down. The devil then made a deal with Jack not to allow Jack into hell after he died if only Jack would remove the cross from the tree. After Jack died, he couldn’t go to hell; and he couldn’t go to heaven. He was forced to wander around the earth with a single candle to light his way. The candle was placed in a turnip to keep it burning longer. When the Irish came to America in the 1800’s, they adopted the pumpkin instead of the turnip. Along with these traditions, they brought the idea that the black cat was considered by some to be reincarnated spirits who had prophetic abilities.
So, it appears that the origins of Halloween are a mixture of old Celtic pagan rituals superstition and early Catholic traditions.
What does the Bible say about Halloween?
What does the Bible say about Halloween? Nothing. But it does speak concerning witches, the occult, and paganism.
Exodus 22:18, “You shall not let a witch live.”
Deut. 18:10-12, “Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD…”
The Bible definitely speaks negatively about occultic practices, spirits, and witches and condemns not only the practice but also the people who are involved in it. As Christians, we are to have nothing to do with the occult. Tarot Cards, contacting the dead, séances, lucky charms, etc., are all unbiblical and can harm a Christian’s fellowship with God and open the Christian to demonic oppression. Most Christians know this and avoid these activities. But, the question still remains. Since there are ancient pagan connections and modern day occultic connections, what is the Christian to do?
Can the Christian celebrate Halloween?
The answer is simple: Yes and No. Let’s look at the negative first.
The Christian is not to be involved with or support the occult, witchcraft, demonism, or any other thing that uplifts the occult. To do so is to contradict God’s word, dabble in the demonic, and invite judgment from God. If a Halloween celebration is centered on demons, devils, spirits, etc., I would say don’t have anything to do with it.
On the other hand, it isn’t wrong to dress up in a costume and go door-to-door saying “Trick or Treat.” Provided that the costume isn’t demonic, I can’t see anything wrong with this. It’s just fun for the kids.
Take a look at the Christmas tree. It was originally an ancient fertility symbol. Yet, it has become a representation of Christmas and the place where gifts are placed. Are the Christians then paying homage to an ancient pagan fertility god? Not at all. They do not consider it pagan and are simply joining in a cultural event and giving no honor to anything unscriptural.
Think about this. In the Bible in 1 Cor. 10:23-33, Paul speaks about meat sacrificed to idols. This meat was often sold in the meat market; and the question arose, “Should a Christian each such meat?”
Paul said in verse 25, “Eat anything that is sold in the meat market, without asking questions for conscience’ sake.” This is most interesting. He says it is okay to eat the meat bought in the market place even though that meat may have been sacrificed to idols.
Then in verses 28-29 he says, “But if anyone should say to you, ‘This is meat sacrificed to idols,’ do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience’ sake; 29 I mean not your own conscience, but the other man’s; for why is my freedom judged by another’s conscience?” (NASB). Paul is saying that if you find out the meat was sacrificed to idols, don’t eat it–not because of you but because of the other person. In other words, eating that meat won’t affect you. But, it may affect the attitude of another who does not understand the freedom the Christian has in Christ.
Is it any different with Halloween (or Christmas)? No. Even though Halloween has pagan origins and because of your freedom in Christ, you and/or your kids can dress up in costumes and go door-to-door and just have fun. However, if you are not comfortable with doing this, then you should not. If you know of a person who would be hindered by doing it, then you shouldn’t either.”
Hill$ong’s road is leading to Hell .
Joel Houston needs to step down from Worship Ministry until such time as he gives a full account about endorsing Halloween.
This must be reported to the ACC immediately.
Ziggy – and Bobbie Houston needs to step down from any form of ministry until such time as she gives a full account about using the gospel (if you can call it that) to promote the merchandising of their “product”.
Bobbie Houston “That time of the year we start dreaming/scheming/making COLOUR memory merchandise….What would you like us to create girls?”
The responses make for interesting reading….
@churchwatcher Matt Slick had some interesting things to say on the radio program, however I personally don’t agree with everything he had to say.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but he basically says that it’s ok to participate in Halloween (dressing up, getting candy, having fun etc) as long as you don’t believe it to be a sin. If you feel it is a sin then don’t do it. He also goes on to say that if you are secure in your Christian faith then it’s fine to participate as long as you don’t do anything to do with the occult.
If that’s his logic, then one could say that if you don’t believe homosexuality to be a sin then its fine to participate in as long as you don’t’ have a séance!
I find it disturbing that a Christian can say “So, it appears that the origins of Halloween are a mixture of old Celtic pagan rituals superstition and early Catholic traditions” but still think its fine to participate in.
Halloween has nothing to do with God and as such Christians should have nothing to do with Halloween. It’s all about being in the world but not of the world, it’s about being called to be set apart (2 Cor.6:17). Satan makes the world very attractive; I mean who doesn’t want free candy? Doesn’t mean we should take it.
You make a valid point. Can we suggest you email your views to him privately? He is open to correction – and that maybe one of them.
Regards,
CW
Another churchwatcher here, (just to confuse lurkers who obsessively monitor this site). Are you Australian 101Discernment? I think you’ll find it’s more of a cultural celebration for many Americans. I wouldn’t celebrate Halloween but would celebrate Reformation Day, same date. Matt rightly points out some scriptural basis for not causing others to stumble, and I think Carl Lentz comes under this category. I have a great respect for Matt Slick and he would NEVER compromise on biblical issues including homosexuality. Spend some time listening to him and you will soon come to that conclusion.
And unfortunately some start judging other Christians because they have a Christmas tree (of pagan origins), using the same argument.
As for emailing him privately, he gets 1000’s of emails and can’t get through half of them! You’re better off calling/skyping him during his daily show, I know of a few Aussies who do that regularly. There’s seems to be no problem getting through.
CARM RADIO – CALL IN LIVE
Listen to “Matt Slick Live” a Christian Talk Radio show with Matt Slick your host on KBXL, Boise Idaho, FM 94.1, M-F. Listen Live 2-3PM/PST; 3-4PM/MST, 5-6PM/EST, and Rebroadcast 4-5PM/PST; 5-6PM/MST; 7-8PM/EST on AM 790, Monday through Friday. Call toll free at 877.207.2276, or 208.377.3790. You can call in via Skype at “carm.org” no spaces. LIVE CHATROOM DURING BROADCAST
@churchwatcher No.2, Yes Aussie! Thanks for the info about calling in live 🙂 I don’t doubt that Matt would compromise on biblical issues like homosexuality (unlike Hillsong), I was just using that as an example as I’m having trouble understanding his logic about sin. If you feel it’s a sin then don’t do it, if you don’t feel it’s a sin then it’s ok as long as you don’t do anything with the occult????
He came across quite clear to me, I think he was quite firm about how he would participate in what is more a cultural event in the States. And he was clear on not causing others to stumble. The crossover to celebrating Halloween in Australia has always struck me as odd. Like Valentines Day, another American ‘institution’, more about making money through merchandising isn’t it? Whether it’s flowers, candy (or lollies 😄 to use the Aussie vernacular), costumes, any excuse for a party etc etc. Must admit we didn’t see any children out and about where we live, a popular beach area with lots of families.
We still must examine what everyone says, no matter how good their reputation is or isn’t .
Billy Graham was esteemed until I heard him make some strange comments about the way to God.
The bible sums it up like this . ” for Jesus entrusted Himself to no man because He knew what was in the heart of man . ”
That will do me !
Both Matt Slick and Chris Rosebrough (Fighting For The Faith) tell their audiences to compare what they say to the bible.
Whereas Brian & Bobbie Houston twist the scriptures to make it suit whatever agenda they’re promoting.
bobbie houston..seriously…ran out of pictures of shoes and frilly dresses, i suppose. I have noticed that hillsong are starting to ‘knockoff’ not only catholic imagery but are more interested in anglican churches than the RCC. They say many great things about anglicans..hope it’s not because of the homosexual/lesbian thing…but it is..quite apparent that anglicans are more ‘friendly’ than the RCC.
Not this “Anglican” 🙂 and certainly none we associate with. But certainly agree they, Hillsong, are courting the various denominations. What is clear to us is that those liberal Anglican dioceses (who condone ordination of women and homosexuals and are not a part of the conservative Anglican dioceses, those against ordination of women and homosexuals) are susceptible to a group called “Catch the Fire”, an offshoot of Bethel and Bill Johnson, John Arnott of Toronto Blessing fame. Yes, it’s rearing its ugly head again. We’ve seen photos of churches welcoming these “ministries”, particularly down south of Wollongong. The pastoral oversite in this area is a lesbian bishop.
http://ctfsydney.com/
What do u mean by this ” Anglican ” ?
From the Anglican churches I have witnessed close up , I have always had serious doubts about that organisation.
I have seen them almost arm in arm with Catholics and other heretical teachers.
I don’t doubt there are true believers amongst them but if Hillsong is a problem so is the Anglican so called church.
Please explain.
Thanks
Ziggy: There are Anglicans commenting here who are “true believers”. What church do you go to?
churchwatcher : Did you get my questions about the anglican movement and how affiliation fees are paid ?
Thanks
I answered your question with a question – what church do you attend? And there hasn’t been any mention about “affiliation fees”. Once again, there are Anglicans commenting here who are committed Christians highly blessed and well ministered to at the churches they attend. There are Pentecostals and charismatics commenting here who are in fellowship with these Anglicans. If your intent is to come here to slander the Anglican communities who follow the gospel, don’t bother commenting.
This is addressed to ” thetruth” and “churchwatcher.”
I replied to “thetruth ” and asked about , ” what are the great things Hillsong is saying about the anglicans ? ” This comment was made by “thetruth ” in earlier comments .
I did not get a reply and furthermore I don’t see my reply on this site.
What happened ?
churchwatcher :
You have misunderstood. I sent a different reply to you asking some questions about how you approach the Anglican governing body when by your own admission there appears to be a division of 2 camps.
One conservative and one in support of Female ordination and homosexual rights.
Those questions do not appear on this site.
Did you get them ?
When I asked a question I was looking forward to an answer .
I would like to know how the Anglican movement operates when there is an obvious division. It must be an uncomfortable affiliation for some churches like the one you belong to.
‘ If your intent is to come here and slander ”
No churchwatcher , I want to know how a body can be so divided and someone mature and discerning like you stays in the movement.
If you pay affiliation fees to them, are you not supporting them ?
The former Archbishop of Brisbane had muslims praying in a church gathering !!!
I could list several outrageous scenarios
I left the AOG movement , because I felt they should get NO support from me.
If believers outside of Hillsong are going to question the movement Hillsong : { remembering there are a number of Hillsong “churches ” } then you would expect their movement to be following sound doctrine.
It would be improper if the JW’s were judging Hillsong about doctrine !
Otherwise is it a case of people who live in glass houses should not throw stones ?
I am not trying to slander , but I am suggesting if you are in a movement that is clearly unsound in doctrine then you should avoid that movement all together .
Come away from them, avoid them and expose them.
Is that not what you ask on this site, in respect of Hillsong ?
You do , and I applaud you.
I admire this site and the courageous people who run it , but sometimes I think the anglican movement in general flies under the radar when Hillsong and the Catholics get a good serve and the thumbs down.
A house divided falls does it not ?
Ziggy – Across Australia, some Anglican dioceses are liberal, unbiblical and losing members while the others are biblical and thriving. We’re aware of all that’s going on but I’m not here to discuss our involvement and membership in a very conservative, biblical church that just happens to be Anglican. It seems you have made up your mind about the Anglican denomination as a whole, and unfortunately what you’re saying proves your ‘ignorance’ about the inner workings of the various dioceses. Instead of demanding that people leave, we should be praying that the Lord continues to move powerfully among these conservative churches as He already is.
And Ziggy – we spent 22 years in the C3 movement, so we do know how to “come away from them, avoid them and (where necessary) expose them”.
Yes CW..should have explained it better. I was talking to some hillsong people just the other day and the flirtation with those anglican churches[ that have homosexual and lesbian friendly tendencies] took me by surprise. That is not to say ALL anglicans..God knows that His people are there as well…just passing along what i observed.
Churchwatcher : I asked you a question.
Ziggy – and I asked you what church you attend? At least give us the opportunity to ‘judge’ your salvation by the church you attend.
“At least give us the opportunity to ‘judge’ your salvation by the church you attend.”
So the Quaternity of Church Watch is now the judge of who goes to Heaven and who is thrown into the lake of fire. That’ll do me
“There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you – who are you to judge your neighbour?” James 4:12
“At least give us the opportunity to ‘judge’ your salvation by the church you attend.”
I was using ‘irony’, Newtaste.
Ziggy says “From the Anglican churches I have witnessed close up , I have always had serious doubts about that organisation. I have seen them almost arm in arm with Catholics and other heretical teachers.’
Has Ziggy visited every church to make his judgment? There are some Anglican dioceses who are heretical, I’ve already said that. Doesn’t anyone bother to read comments here?
There IS heresy coming out of Hillsong, there IS a clear unapologetic alignment with false teachers/movements. However, though others may not agree with me, I have no doubt that God is drawing His own to Himself even out of Hillsong.
‘Salvation is accomplished by the power of the triune God. The Father chose a people, the Son died for them, the Holy Spirit makes Christ’s death effective by bringing His own to faith and repentance. The entire process (election, redemption, regeneration) is the work of God and is by grace alone. God, not man, determines who will be the recipients of the gift of salvation’.
John 6:37 “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.”
John 6:44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 17:9 “I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.”
@Badtaste – people decide for themselves, who ends up in heaven, and who ends up in the lake of fire – have you made your choice yet???
As you can see, I am no Calvinist – I am not of the Reformed persuasion. I do not doubt the sovereignty of God for one moment, but I do believe that choice is real – it is not an illusion and it is God given.
People send themselves to Hell, because they are rebels in their heart of hearts, no matter how “righteous” they may appear in public…
“So the Quaternity of Church Watch is now the judge of who goes to Heaven and who is thrown into the lake of fire. That’ll do me”
@ Newtaste, you seem to constantly monitor this website hoping / waiting for some mistake to trip them up.
Are you harboring bitterness? Why? Has anyone here wronged you? Is this where your ‘walk with God’ has brought you? To this level of ‘depth?’
Do you have a problem? What reason do you have for your hate? It seems like you are providing a fine example of one additional reason to entirely avoid the Hillsong empire.
churchwatcher : You say ” I am not here to discuss my membership in a very conservative, biblical church that just happens to be anglican .”
Are u suggesting you cannot be questioned ?
Your membership is based on biblical doctrine and belief.
This site questions widely what happens with members of Hillsong where there are deceived and true believers like the anglican movement.
I would urge you to leave the anglican movement and expose their false doctrine and their false unity, joining together with false religions.
What you capably do with pulling down strongholds in Hillsong , I encourage you to expose the anglican movement with the same vigour and boldness.
NO I am not slandering you , I am encouraging you to go higher.
Martin Luther, Jacob Prasch, Philip Powell, Dave Hunt , are in my considered opinion Men of God who took a road less travelled but have brought Glory to God.They have identified the wolves in sheep’s clothing , the hirelings and con artists , the actors who do not protect the flock.
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.
The OT in the time of King Asa in Chronicles saw a revival.
It took place when the various strongholds were demolished.
Jesus and Paul took on false religion face to face emphatically and with courage !
I for one, am not going to stand with my hands in my pocket and head in the sand and watch any false religion kick the living word Jesus in the guts.
In love , I will bring correction where I see it regardless of the personal cost .
If Catholics, Anglicans, Hillsong, Jw’s and whoever don’t want people asking questions , they should remember they started the division in the body by teaching error.
Jesus said ” It is finished “, now true believers have a job to do.
Know Christ and make Him known.
We have to honour all that Christ has commanded.
Ziggy – you’re welcome to comment about Hillsong here and yes, we all get side tracked, but if you want to discuss the Anglican Church, start your own blog and we can all come over and comment there.
churchwatcher : thanks for your advice .
And maybe a good idea for you not to wear that ” anglican badge ” on this site !
For some its like a red rag to a bull !
The “badge” stays – this site is moderated by a variety of Christians who are part of the body of Christ. Pentecostals, Charismatics, Anglicans, Baptists, (whether Calvinist or Arminian), even “refugees” from cults, all comment here because they are concerned about the state of the church today.
Now Kirk Cameron of “Way of the Master” is telling everyone to celebrate halloween and have the biggest Halloween party on the block! They’re all going nuts!!!! and…. Lisa Bevere is saying that the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah wasn’t homosexuality!!!!(on James Robisons show Life Today) Ahhhgggg I can’t stand it! Has anyone got a brain anymore??? Talk about giving in to a strong delusion. Oh well, this once again proves Gods prophecies are right.
“Now Kirk Cameron of “Way of the Master” is telling everyone to celebrate halloween and have the biggest Halloween party on the block! They’re all going nuts!!!! and…. Lisa Bevere is saying that the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah wasn’t homosexuality!”
hearing about things like these are disturbing. i personally find myself constantly reducing the circle of ppl i trust at all (meaning even when it ‘sounds ok’ i still turn some off).
lisa bevere is way out to lunch, everybody knows that..
but kirk cameron, wow. i hope thats a mistype. that hes intentionally taking this to such an extreme. was watching some pretty good vids by ray comfort & todd friel just a few days ago.. todd friel consistently makes some great catches..
nfg
No, sadly its true, just google it. He says it makes a mockery of the devil to dress up like him. Funny, I never really liked Kirk Cameron much, (nothing to do with their ministry which I think is good) but I just always found him a bit arrogant) now I know why.
Your right about reducing the circle smaller and smaller. But remember Jesus said that narrow is the gate that leads to salvation. We just gotta stay with the King where he leads us. 🙂 I really think Jesus is taking his sheep outta the church system cause their coming under judgement. But He will collect all his sheep at the right time and Jesus will be the true head of the church and no more pastors or preachers, just Jesus Christ.
I don’t think Christians realize that as the body of Christ, the body shouldn’t be doing abominable things, not just sexual sins but even dressing up in evil costumes. We are to be the body of Jesus. Jesus never did vial things with his body so why is the church? We are called to be holy as He is holy. I cant see Jesus dressing up in an ugly witch mask prancing around a pumpkin.
@Shocker – I agree with you – the Lord is calling His people out of ‘Babylon’ (Rev 18:4) but this could take some time. Many feel comfortable within their traditional church settings, but cannot always foresee the dangers inherent within that tradition.
‘Babylon’ is not so much a denomination, it is a spirit, which invades the hearts and minds of God’s people (I’m not suggesting that they are ‘demon possessed’,) and helps to make them captives to its cause.
Leaving Babylon is not about abandoning a church building so much, as it is heeding the Lord’s call to “come out of her My people…” wherever they discern this foul spirit at work. It may mean simply repenting of idolatry or spiritual harlotry. Many people feel that they have achieved this, because they have “changed church buildings”, but it’s not that simple, or that easy for most.
In many cases, it may well mean leaving your ‘denomination’ too, but there’s no point in doing that, if “Babylon” and all of its abominations are still resident within the heart and mind of individual believers – you’ll simply take it with you…
@NFG – @Shocker :
“Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good…”
(Ezekiel 16:49, 50)
The original ‘sin of Sodom’ was laziness, and indifference towards the poor. This indolence lead to people falling into all kinds of sin and wickedness, (due to the extra time n their hands) with homosexuality being the final outcome. This passage does not, however, give license to the “nay sayers” to make up excuses for clear choices made by sinners…
When I first noticed the sacred heart of Jesus images in the Hillsong Conference video, I thought ‘what the’. I never grew to like seeing it in the video and still don’t like it at all. It wasn’t as if it was a flash image of an actor playing Jesus in The Passion of the Christ or the Jesus movie, and you know it’s an actor. It was a lingering shot of an image of what is said to be Jesus based on supposed apparitions to various ‘saints’, and with a beating heart – a heart that is explicitly linked in Catholic doctrine to the image of the immaculate heart of Mary, an image again based upon supposed apparitions. But similar to how I ignored stuff I didn’t believe in or like at the Catholic Church when I went there, I just ignored this and moved on.
You often champion Chris Rosebrough’s critiques of Hillsong. Well, Rosebrough has his own Roman Catholic leanings. I recall on an episode of Issues Etc that Rosebrough defended the Lutheran and Catholic doctrine of Reconciliation. He claimed that it was impossible to know that God had forgiven your sins unless you confessed the sins to a pastor and received absolution from him. I’m guessing that Rosebrough’s Lutheran church building has a confessional box – if it does and he uses it that would be terrifying.
This website has an excellent critique of Rosebrough, including pointing out that Rosebrough uses a Catholic image front and centre on his website.
http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com.au/2012/07/why-do-they-use-chi-rho.html?m=1
http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/they-use-chi-rho-because-they-are.html?m=1
Rosebrough dresses as if he is a Catholic priest. I have asked him by email why he does this but he didn’t reply. http://issuesetc.org/wp-content/
uploads/2014/04/rosebrough1.jpg
Curtis Leins is the presiding pastor of the TAALC, and from Rosebrough’s fond words of him one of Rosebrough’s mentors. Leins however doesn’t dress much like a pastor going by this photo, he dresses more like a Roman Catholic cardinal. http://ilc-online.org/files/2014/07/Curtis-Leins-web.jpg
Newtaste says – “He claimed that it was impossible to know that God had forgiven your sins unless you confessed the sins to a pastor and received absolution from him.”
I’ve heard Chris talk about reconciliation as you describe and ……
And I think you need to do a bit more research on the foundations on Lutheranism, why there was a split within the denomination over the last few years, and which side Chris is on. I would rather listen to Chris’ sound exposition of Christian doctrine over most others any day. Hmmmmm, that’s an odd thought, a Calvinist with Lutheran leanings? No, don’t think so. Still think he’s ‘the best thing since sliced bread’, when it comes to being weaned away from false doctrine.
The church Chris pastors. http://www.kongsvingerchurch.org/
And Newtaste, want to see another image that will throw some fuel on your fire? This is who you see when men are united against false doctrine/false teachers
http://truelight321.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/panel-discussion.jpg?w=775&h=510&crop=1
Voddie Baucham, Phil Johnson, Sye Ten Bruggencate, Justin Peters, Chris Rosebrough and JD Hall. They do love their Lutheran brother.
1 Corinthians 6:9
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
Jude 1:7
7 And don’t forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and EVERY KIND OF SEXUAL PERVERSION. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God’s judgment.
Hmmm…. so God judged sexual perversion with hellfire. Wow, when was the last time you heard that in church?
‘Are we seeing a gospel of inclusion that will eventually embrace the homosexual movement, Islam and Catholicism?’ A VERY good point from the above article and just about spot-on. Brian tried islam with the disasterous allah comment, is still working on the ‘vexing’ homosexual movement and now catholic imagery abounds.
Is there a method in their madness? It most certainly looks like a gospel of anything goes, which is NOT what the real Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible taught or commanded.
It amazes me that the hillsong ‘pentecostal’ people haven’t even asked these questions..and good luck getting any confusing ‘clarification’ of previous clarifications from brian houston.
So I thought the PX symbol on your masthead was you trying to blatantly link Hillsong Church with the Roman Catholic Church. Seems I was wrong about that, and that it is there for other reasons. Might as well slip an IHS in there too.
“Seems I was wrong about that, and that it is there for other reasons.”
You seem to be wrong over a lot of things… Including your church history. Tut! Tut!
The PX sign stands for two Greek letters of their alphabet – X = Chi and P = Rho – so in modern Egypt, you have Chi-Rho or Cairo (English spelling) as the modern capital of that country.
IHS = Isis – Horus – Seb – the three ‘gods’ from ancient Egyptian pagan myths. Both the PX and IHS symbols were introduced into Catholicism during its early formation, and came from Alexandria, a centre of learning and also a stronghold for Gnostics.
There’s nothing ‘Christian’ about either of them…
There is also the Alpha and Omega written on this website ..very fitting for the True Word of Christ. Is there a problem newtaste…. with Jesus Christ referring to Himself as ‘I AM the Alpha and Omega’ in Revelation (verses 1:8, 21:6, and 22:13)? I hope not.
Rev: 19:16, “On his robe and on his thigh he has this name WRITTEN: King of Kings and Lord of Lords. [ Yes…WRITTEN!] Do you have an alternative to the ancient Greek?
There are NO sacred hearts here, NO shoes and dresses, NO instagrams, NO first class airfares.
I did not see the ‘ziggy’ comment where he/she wants me to give details about a private conversation that involved the hillsong infiltration of Anglican churches. It was private and will remain so…do you want gossip? go somewhere else.
My point was, and is, Hillsong are desperately trying to establish roots with traditional churches..want to know why ? Because ever since a royal commission established that Paedophile Frank Houston is the true founder of hillsong..brian and bobbie NEED to fool people that they don’t have roots that only go back…um..NOT centuries….but only a couple of decades!!!..Beginning with Franky Houston and his victims.
See if you can reconcile these brian houston quotes:
1] “I feel confident that we’re the real deal, genuine people, love God, love people and we’re doing our best to help people.” Nov 7, 2004.
2] ‘NO’ financial or MORAL responsibility’ to the victims of Frank Houston. 2014.
I will leave up to you if you want to follow this person.
A ‘church’ with rotten roots, looking to find/absorb a traditional one to hide it’s past.
How about we just ‘plant’ a hillsong on top of struggling Christian churches?
Reminds me of 1 Peter 5:8, “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour”.
Sounds like a hillsong/ c3 takeover to me.
I
thetruth : The truth is you already gave details about that private conversation about the Hillsong infiltration of the Anglican Church.
You stated the senior minister had an affair with the youth leader .
You started the gossip.
@AB: ‘You stated the senior minister had an affair with the youth leader.”
Are you on something? Where did i ever state someone had an affair? I think you need to go back and read things again.
thetruth : What did u say exactly. I can’t find it ?
roman Catholics do not believe what Christians believe, we do not see hail Mary as equal with Jesus we do not pray to dead saints either.
its not only hillsong and brian houston who are linked to the Catholics, htb holy trinity brompton and nicky gumbel are linked to them as well.
why do Christians want to mix with all these fathers and these popes, there is only one father god the father Jesus the son and the holy spirit.
there is only one head of the church, which is Jesus is the head we are his body. Catholics have a head of the church and its not biblical.
Anglicans and the church of england are very linked to the Catholics.
yes hillsong have become desparate to be linked to very traditional churches, and I wonder why.
the problem with hillsong, is what do they really believe? anyone can put a mission statement on their website stating their Christians beliefs.
yet I don’t see any of them demonstrated by hillsong, where does motivational speaking fit in with preaching the gospel.
nearly everyones pushing for the one world church in some way or anothr..
http://www.thebereancall.org/content/pope-francis-meets-evangelical-delegation
2 of the delegation were WEA (if youre not aware WEA is another one world church group)..
one world church.. the whole world together in unity what a ‘wonderful’ thing..
http://apprising.org/2014/05/06/james-robison-to-pope-francis-in-christ-we-are-brothers/
many apostate leaders are selling the ‘Church’ on unity with the pope..
trust me, soon theyll call the dalai lama ‘brother’. when you hear that, youll know theyre close to getting their maitreya (‘coexist’)..
nfg
I’m short on time, so I was only able to read a bit of your post.
However, I’m just going to throw a couple of things out there for you and your readers.
1) Jesus did say in Luke 12, as you pointed out, that He came to divide. In that passage, was He speaking about the idea that His Church should be divided? As I’m sure you’re aware, He prayed to God the Father shortly before He was arrested that all believers, all Christians, be one. His prayer is in John 17:20-23: “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one — I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”
Importantly, Jesus said that through the “unity” of His believers, the world would know that God sent Jesus to us. In other words, the unity of His believers directly impacts the ability of His Church to accomplish the Great Commission. I believe this passage, if you study the exegesis of it, is more directly applicable to the question of whether Christians should all be united than the passage you cited about Jesus speaking about the fact that He came to divide.
2) Also, as you pointed out, Deuteronomy 4 states that you shall not add to the Word or take away from it. Revelation 22 has a similar admonition. The canon of the Bible was established by the Synod of Hippo in 393. However, during the 16th century, in the midst of the Protestant Reformation, seven books referred to as the Apocrypha, were removed from the Biblical canon by the Protestant reformers. So, please note that Protestants have engaged in Biblical editing of their own.
Because of their theological and historical errors, the books of the Apocrypha are to be viewed as ‘fallible historical and religious documents’, not as the inspired, authoritative Word of God.
http://www.justforcatholics.org/a109.htm
The question of whether the books of the Apocrypha are “fallible” and whether or not they contain “historical and theological errors” is not a settled question. Clearly, justforcatholics.org is a website with an anti-Catholic agenda. It’s probably not the best source of reference in an objective discussion of a question like this.
Tell me, what determined the canon of the Bible that you use? Where in the Bible is listed the index of books that do and do not belong in the Bible? In other words, on this matter, who or what is your authority?
Are you a Catholic Matt?
Answer my questions and I’ll answer yours. 🙂
@Matt, you say “I’m short on time, so I was only able to read a bit of your post”, I would suggest you read an entire post before commenting, in this case you might even learn something!
You also say “He prayed to God the Father shortly before He was arrested that all believers, all Christians be one”, as far as I can tell that is exactly the point and the context that that scripture is being used.
‘ALL CHRISTIANS BE ONE’ – Catholic’s are not Christians (according to the Bible) and therefore Christians should not ‘be one’ with them, hence the ‘division’.
Also, removing the second commandment from scripture is ok?
While we are talking about changing things, is it also ok that the Popes changed God’s Sabbath from the 7th day of the week (Saturday) to the 1st day of the week (Sunday)?
I mean who has more authority, God or the Pope?
‘The Roman Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday’. Source Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd edition, 1957.
“The authority of the Church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed…the Sabbath to Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority.” Cannon and Tradition, p263.
Doctrinal Catechism states: “Had she (Catholic church) not power… she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day of the week… a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.” Page 174
“It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” Priest Brady, in a address reported in the Elizabeth N.J. News March 18, 1903.
“The Catholic Church of its own infallible authority created Sunday a holy day to take the place of the Sabbath of the old law,” -Kansas City Catholic, February 9, 1893
“We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change.” -Peter R. Kraemer- Catholic Church Extension Society (1975), Chicago, Illinois.
“The Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her Founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant, claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. -The Catholic Universe Bulletin, Aug. 14, 1942
“Sunday is our mark or authority…the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.” Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.
“Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday.” Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.
“Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.” Rome’s Challenge http://www.immaculateheart.com/maryonline Dec 2003
Unfortunately, even the Protestant church has adopted a change that the Catholic Church instituted, but my point is that the Catholic Church seems to have authority to write their own laws and rules and does not accept God as the final authority.
The Protestant does accept God as the final authority and does not seek to change His Laws.
I think you missed the entire point of the article, which seems to be that Hillsong who proclaim to be a ‘Protestant’ Church, are aligning with the Catholic Church and her idols.
@101discernment – sorry to throw a spanner into the workings of your Sabbitarian viewpoint, but doesn’t this scripture clear it up for those who doubt Sunday worship?
“And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.”(Acts 20:7)
Seeing that, from a Jewish perspective, Saturday was their ‘Sabbath’ (from Friday sunset until Saturday sunset) doesn’t it simply follow that Sunday would then be the first day of the following week, and also commensurate with the day of the resurrection of our Lord, Jesus Christ?
But then there’s this:
” Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day– things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ” (Colossians 2:16, 17)
And of course the clincher – Romans 14:
“One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.”
(5, 6)
So it is clear from the scriptures that at least some, if not many of the early church saints met on the first day of the week, not the seventh, and according to Romans 14, were free to meet on any day of the week, according to their conscience. Regardless of what Popes and priests have instituted at a later date, God’s people are not bound by Sabbitarian or Sunday observances. They are free to choose…
In other words, “Everyday’s a Sunday”… Are we allowed to say that? 😉
@Apostolic – My point was that the very day God himself set aside, was changed by the Roman Catholic Church.
I was just illustrating that the RCC are a law unto themselves and even claim authority to change several of God’s laws and commandments without question.
I was not sharing my view point on the Sabbath.
Seeing as you want to ‘through a spanner’ on my ‘Sabbitarian viewpoint’, allow me to show you my actual viewpoint.
Let me get one thing straight, I go to church on a Sunday.
I am however striving to do what the Bible says, not what man says. This is a topic that has two sides to the argument and for me personally I believe God’s commandments are still to be kept, not because this will save me, but rather I choose to keep them because I love God and therefore do as he commands.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. NKJ
You are absolutely right when you say we are free to meet on what ever day we want, however this does not mean we are keeping the Sabbath.
I find it very interesting that most Bible believing Christians ‘choose’ a day (Sunday) that was set aside by man and not their God. (Just so you know the Sabbath has nothing to do with worship).
Church’s ‘choose’ to only hold their services on Sunday, so this leaves no choice as to which day we worship or think we are observing the Sabbath, the decision has been made for us!
“We ought to obey God rather than man.” Acts 5:29 NKJ
In regards to no one acting as your judge in regards to Sabbath (Col 2:16-17), notice that the heading for chapter 2 NIV is ‘Freedom from human rules’ NOT ‘Freedom from God’s rules’, this is about not what day you keep the Sabbath, but rather how you keep the Sabbath day on the Sabbath day and not letting anyone judge you for keeping it. Read the rest of the chapter, you will see it’s talking about human commands and teachings. The Sabbath is God’s command not a humans.
The fourth commandment – Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy….But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God…wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it. NKJ
“…And on the SEVENTH day God ended His work which He had made; and He RESTED on the SEVENTH day…” “…And God BLESSED the seventh day, and sanctified it. Genesis 2:2-3 NKJ
“And He hath BLESSED; and I cannot reverse it.” Numbers 23:20 NKJ
Matthew 5:17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. NKJ
By breaking Gods commandments we are called ‘least’ in the kingdom of heaven!
The only commandment that people forgot was the only one that begins with “REMEMBER”.
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” Exodus 20:8
Christ’s disciples kept the Sabbath AFTER the Crucifixion. Luke 23:56 ‘And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and RESTED the Sabbath day according to the commandment’. NKJ
Notice how this verse says ‘rested’ not ‘worshiped’.
You quote Acts 20:7, “And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.”
This has nothing to do with keeping the Sabbath, it only illustrates that they chose to break bread and hear preaching on a Sunday which is completely different to observing a Sabbath.
There’s no mention in the New Testament that the seventh day ‘Sabbath’ was eliminated or changed, nor any mention of any commandments being eliminated or changed. On the contrary, we are told only to keep Gods commandments.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. NKJ
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments…NKJ
Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. NKJ
1 John 2:3-4 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commandments. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. NIV
1 John 3:22 …and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. NIV
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. NKJ
2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, that as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. NKJ
Revelation 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring – those who obey Gods commandments….NIV
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, AND the faith of Jesus. NKJ
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city. NKJ
I don’t think we get to choose which commandments are applicable to our lives, it’s either all or none. We should obey God because we love God.
You say, “So it is clear from the scriptures that at least some, if not many of the early church saints met on the first day of the week, not the seventh”
Just because these men chose to meet on the Sunday does not mean they didn’t keep the Sabbath the day before.
In fact, if you read Acts Chapter 13, you will see that they organised ongoing meetings on the Sabbath (Saturday).
Jesus – King of kings and Lord of lords – provided a pattern for us. While on earth as Son of Man, He made it His custom to keep each Sabbath. (Luke 4:16)
Jesus said He did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfil it in the highest spiritual sense. He emphatically declared that not “one jot or tittle’ would be changed until heaven and earth cease to exist.
Matthew 5:17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. NKJ
As far as I can tell heaven and earth are still here and therefore, so are God’s commandments.
Do you keep the commandments? Is it ok that we steal, murder, commit adultery, take the name of the Lord in vein, dishonour your mother and father, have idols, covet, etc?
Most if not all Christians would agree that it is not ok to do these things and happily obey these commandments. But for some strange reason, when you bring up the commandment of the Sabbath, this becomes the exception to the rule.
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.”
The Bible is very clear as to how we are to keep the Sabbath, it is a specific day, not whatever we choose it to be. Again, the Sabbath has nothing to do with which day we choose to worship God.
The Lord did not bless the Pope’s day, He blessed His own day. When you change something of God’s is that not blasphemous?
If the Catholic Church changed it and fully endorse it, then that alone should make Christians question it.
Mark 7:7-9 NIV, They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules. You have let go of the COMMANDS OF GOD and are holding on to human traditions”. And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions!
Do you not think that the Sabbath would be included in these commands of God that are being set aside so men can observe their own ways of doing things? Just because it’s be done a certain way for many generations does not make it right.
Romans 8:7 NIV The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who OBEY the law who will be declared righteous.
1 John 3:4 NIV, Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact sin is lawlessness.
One of Satan’s greatest deceptions is getting men to set aside the commands of God and getting them to believe there is no need to keep God’s laws and thereby they become lawless.
It is very important not to be lawless. The Bible speaks of the ‘Lawless one’.
2 Thessalonians 2:8-9 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie.
I do not want to stand before my creator on judgment day and have to justify why I felt I was above His laws. Yes, I have grace and I am saved by grace alone, but by God’s own word, His law/commandments have not passed away until heaven and earth passes away!
Romans 6:13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.
How are we righteous? How can God see us as an instrument of righteouness?
Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who OBEY the law who will be declared righteous.
Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!
Even though we are not under law, if we sin we break the law.
1 John 3:4 NIV, Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact sin is lawlessness.
This prophecy in Isaiah 24 is for the last days.
Isaiah 24:4-5 The earth dries up and withers, the world languishes and withers,
the heavens languish with the earth. The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant.
@discernment 101:
“There’s no mention in the New Testament that the seventh day ‘Sabbath’ was eliminated or changed, nor any mention of any commandments being eliminated or changed. On the contrary, we are told only to keep Gods commandments.”
Fine – then please show me multiple references where NT saints actually kept a Saturday ‘Sabbath’ – after the resurrection and ascension of Christ. if you are right, then that should be easy. Sunday attendance of church meetings is not a sin nor is it an abrogation of the Law, nor is it a definite requirement of the NT scriptures.
As for the passage you quoted in 1 John – Jesus summed up the whole of the ‘Law’ into two commandments – love God and love your neighbour as yourself. The ‘ten commandments’ can be broken into two groups – warnings against the sins against God and also the sins against your neighbour… The difference for the NT believer, is that those two ‘laws’ are now written on the fleshy tables of our hearts – not on tablets of stone…
As for the current trend for Sunday ‘worship’, this is a product of the modern western world – people work five days a week – do their housework, shopping and entertainment/sport on Saturday, and leave Sunday for ‘churchgoing’ – or at least they did. I did as a child, and as a young adult until the bottom fell out of that western way of doing things. Pubs and clubs, sporting and betting fixtures and all kinds of relaxation/entertainment now take place on Sundays.
Either way you want to look at it, the Sabbath or Sunday part of the “weekend” has been despoiled in that the world has breached the ‘line’ that was formerly endorsed by the church. Both days mean nothing more than a ‘weekend’ nowadays, to most people.
@Austin
“Fine – then please show me multiple references where NT saints actually kept a Saturday ‘Sabbath’”
Show me where the commandments were changed! Show me where the Sabbath was made a Sunday! Show me where the day of ‘rest’ was done on the Sunday!
The seventh day was always referred to as the Sabbath. In Acts 13 the Sabbath is mentioned several times, if it was any other day other than the seventh day they would have referred to it as whatever day it was.
Acts 13:14-15 From Perga they went on to Pisidian Antioch. On the Sabbath they entered the synagogue and sat down.
There are no references of NT saints keeping a ‘Saturday’ Sabbath, because the Sabbath was the seventh day and it never changed. If they wrote the ‘seventh day Sabbath’, it would have been stating the obvious.
If the Sabbath was changed to the Sunday, then explain why the Popes had to change it themselves? They changed it because it had not been changed up until that time!
You want scriptures to show that they kept the Sabbath on the Saturday, but you won’t accept scripture that clearly says we are to keep the commandments?
If we are to keep the commandments then the Sabbath was the seventh day, it was never changed.
Please read this NT scripture from Hebrews that was written after the resurrection and ascension of Christ.
Hebrews 4:9-13 (NIV)
A Sabbath-Rest for the People of God
9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Notice how it says ‘just as God did from His’, God rested from His works on the Seventh day.
The Seventh day was made to be the Sabbath, not the first day. Any reference to the Sabbath in Bible is the ‘Seventh day’.
“Sunday attendance of church meetings is not a sin nor is it an abrogation of the Law, nor is it a definite requirement of the NT scriptures.”
I never said it was a sin, I even made the point of saying that I go to church on a Sunday. Unlike the Sabbath, yes, Sunday attendance is not a definite requirement (commandment) of the NT scripture.
“Jesus summed up the whole of the ‘Law’ into two commandments – love God and love your neighbour as yourself”
You are absolutely right, we are to love God and we are to love our neighbour. How do we love God? What is love?
Love is a verb it is something that we do, not something that we feel. We show God that we love him by doing what he says. This means keeping his commandments, the very ones that are ‘the sins against God’ and ‘sins against our neighbour’ that were once written on stone.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. NKJ
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments…NKJ
Just because the laws are summed up into two categories does not mean that they are done away with.
God showed us that he loved us by giving His only son; it was through his action that he showed love.
“The difference for the NT believer, is that those two ‘laws’ are now written on the fleshy tables of our hearts – not on tablets of stone…”
Even though the laws are written on our hearts and not stone, they are there to be obeyed. They have not been abolished. Laws against God and Laws against our neighbour are to be kept otherwise why bother putting them on our hearts!
‘As for the current trend for Sunday ‘worship’, this is a product of the modern western world’.
Yes! You are completely correct. It is a product of this world, not of our God. Do you think this could even come under the category of being in the world but not of the world?
I did not always believe this; in fact I struggled in accepting it. It has taken several years of God revealing His word. What made me accept this was because the evidence to keep Gods commandments far outweighs the evidence to not keep them or that they were changed!
Directly out of the mouth of God came the Ten Commandments. These are the ONLY verses in the Bible that God Himself wrote. And God Himself, wrote them to make us realize their importance and to make us realise that they would forever be in effect weather it was on stone or on our hearts.
Seeing as this has gotten completely off topic (Hillsong), I am going to end this Sabbath discussion.
I will just say one last thing:-
Most people who comment on here are wanting members of Hillsong and C3 to see that they are being feed a false gospel. They want them to read their bibles and realise that teachings like the prosperity gospel are not the Gospel.
Believe me, as an ex hillsong/c3 member I struggled greatly when I learnt that everything I had been taught from Sunday school up was based on a lie, the realisation that my relationship with Jesus was based on a lie was deeply upsetting and very confronting.
I can understand why people don’t want to hear the truth, it hurts!
My itching ears liked what they had been hearing, but my heart knew better.
When I decided to leave Hillsong/C3, I was also leaving behind all that I knew- friends, family, church, my life as I knew it. It meant being cut off.
If I was going to make such a huge stand for the truth, the real gospel, I realised that I had to question EVERYTHING that I had ever been taught.
If something as important as the gospel can be completely twisted, what else has been twisted to fit our lifestyles?
I had learnt the hard way that just because something is ‘popular’ does not mean it is correct.
From that moment on, I have been on a personal journey to compare everything the church ever taught me to the Bible in context (something most confessing Christians don’t do).
I’m not claiming that I have all the answers and that I’m 100% correct, but as I read the Bible I can see for myself that it is different on a lot of topics than what is being taught.
If the Catholic Church changed it and fully endorse it, then that alone should make Christians question it.
Study the word of God, ask God to show you truth, don’t rely on man for truth. Remember that the English Bible is just a translation of the original text, quite often points can be lost in translation. When in doubt go back to the original texts.
Well said 101.
“When I decided to leave Hillsong/C3, I was also leaving behind all that I knew- friends, family, church, my life as I knew it. It meant being cut off.”
matthew 19:29:
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
@101 –
“Hebrews 4:9-13 (NIV) A Sabbath-Rest for the People of God”
Yes – but this ‘Sabbath Rest’ is not a Saturday nor is it the ‘seventh day’ either.
It is a complete ‘rest of faith’ in the finished work of Christ upon the cross. Otherwise Romans 14 is wrong too – one man holds a certain day holy, another man says that every day is the same to him??? (Romans 14:5 – 6)
That is a matter of conscience – not law – not a legal requirement like it was under the OT.
Yes very good Thor. Christ is our sabbath.
Every verse of scripture is ‘God breathed’ @101. Under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, was the Bible written, over thousands of years – all of it, so why single out the ‘ten commandments’? Why not concentrate on Christ, who has redeemed us from “the curse of the law”?
You seem to have a ‘bee in your bonnet’ about the law and the ten commandments. If they are indeed, written on our hearts, we will do them quite naturally, without someone checking up on us. Your ‘gospel’ sounds like OT Phariseeism…
Your whole approach to this matter seems to indicate some heavy SDA influences on your spiritual thinking – legalistic people only end up underneath the crushing burden of MORE law – not less.
@ Thor
“If they are indeed, written on our hearts, we will do them quite naturally, without someone checking up on us” This was my point!
You agree then that we are to do them (commandments) if they are on our heart, upon our own conviction? And we will have no problem doing them as it will come quite naturally?
“why single out the ‘ten commandments’?” Because like you said they are part of the Word of God that is Holy Sprit inspired, also the commandments are the only words of the Bible that God himself wrote down on stone! So they are important… It’s not that I’m ignoring the rest of the Bible and not concentrating on what Christ has done…. you are reading into things.
“Your ‘gospel’ sounds like OT Phariseeism…” Far from the truth! I am saved through faith alone, by grace alone and not by works! I have made that point several times.
“Your whole approach to this matter seems to indicate some heavy SDA influences on your spiritual thinking” I am not a SDA, never have been never will be, don’t listen to their teachings either!
“One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.”
In regards to what day the Sabbath should be, I am convinced in my mind and you yours. Let’s leave it at that!
I’m not saying that it has authority over me; it’s just something I choose.
I find this video very interesting….
It really does explain brian houston. The only way he learnt the Bible was from Frank houston. Nobody ever told the poor man [ brian] that his ‘version’ was warped.
No wonder that brian really has no idea, never listened to anybody with insight..and bobbie isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed. There’s a recipe for disaster!
What a shame that those who dared to tell brian he was wrong, got thrown out with franks victims.
Obviously brian and bobbie will just ignore it all..until judgement day.
somehow i missed these recent comments by the pope.. it is not possible to know Jesus outside of the pope’s CULT:
“Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,”
(1 peter 1:8)
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whats really ironic is, these days it’s “in” for all CULT LEADERS to endorse each other..
http://kennethcopelandministries.org/2014/07/kenneth-copeland-honors-bishop-tony-palmer/#.VHPhSWAzKWQ
“In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among FALSE BRETHREN;” (2 corinthians 11:26)
“For such are FALSE APOSTLES, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.” (2 corinthians 11:13)
nfg
interesting..
“17 But those who trust in idols, who say to images, ‘You are our gods,’ will be turned back in utter shame.” (isaiah 42:17)
nfg
Hillsong pastor Darren Kitto doing some Roman Catholic gospel socialising, as he dresses up as a Catholic bishop while his wife plays his Catholic nun. http://instagram.com/p/ygO98LsnCJ/
Nothing controversial there Newtaste, never played dress-up?
Too true. No difference to Mr Sparkle, Butter Chicken, Disco Jase, Breeze McLean and The Panda
Newtaste – Being the fount of all knowledge on things Hillsong, please explain exactly who or what ‘Mr. Sparkle’ is meant to be?
Another hillsong super-spiritual giant Darlene Zschech:
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=33942
Up until the Reformation the Catholic church was the Christian Church.
At the time of the Reformation Protestant groups like the Lutherens made the then egregious mistake of “throwing the baby out with the bathwater,
when it came to some basic christian teaching.
I am not an apologist for the Roman Catholic church far from it.
And I am not surprised in the least that the church goverment of Hillsong with Brian as its head is indeed the same as the church of Rome.
More strange behavior from another new apostolic reformation leader:
http://christiannews.net/2016/04/10/lou-engle-of-the-call-prostrates-himself-kisses-foot-of-catholic-leader-as-act-of-reconciliation/
We’ve been watching this develop. We’ll be addressing this soon.
Sorry. long post. my turn to rant….
Same video in English:
9:33:10 New Apostolic Restoration audience manipulator “prophet” P Cain rambles with:
“look out California….there’s something greater than a giant charismatic earthquake coming….sons and daughters of God are going to be introduced in this (Azusa now) meeting….something’s gonna come so strong to you that you won’t even know that there be any baptism of the Holy Ghost compared to the enormous baptism you’re about to receive….I tell you that cloud is coming….and the news media abc, nbc, cbs, cbn will be saved…the whole world is going mad and falling on their face and saying ‘Jesus is Lord’….”
What baptism is talking about?? It’s not in Bible.
What he’s saying about media?? Seclar media hates Jesus Christ.
“The whole world going mad and saying ‘Jesus is Lord’”?? How is this?? World hates Jesus Christ. Mark 13:13 — “You will be hated by everyone on account of My name”
Then P Cain loses me more goes rambling onto “resurrections” etcetera.
None of this is n Bible. P Cain makes it up as crowd cheers this unbiblical “message”.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 — “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”
Is previously alcoholic P Cain’s been having his same alcoholism again??
The “revivalists” are falling away signs and myths together. It’s a sad episode guys.
9:49:00 Lou Engle
“Billy Graham’s mantle is coming on this nation.”
What mantle is that Lou?? Honestly…. this kind of crowd hype is a manipulation….