(EDIT 21/02/2015: Added new Andy Stanley’s sermon review which was published on FFtF on the 16/02/2015 .)
Chris Rosebrough has sounded the alarm for Christians to watch out for Andy Stanley’s latest dangerous teachings. It appears that these new teachings from Stanley will be steering the dangerous Seeker Sensitive “Church” movement into greater apostasy.
In reviewing Andy Stanley’s sermon (titled Brand: New), Chris exposed how Stanley downplayed the “sacred” in Christianity and that the Bible supports the Seeker Sensitive church model. As Chris Rosebrough pointed out, nothing could have been further from the truth.
This sermon review is worth your while. Below the sermon review is a good article expressing and addressing the issues with Andy Stanley’s teaching.
From Fighting for the Faith,
FEBRUARY 12, 2015
Don’t Miss The Sermon Review!
Click Here to Download this episode
Program segments:
**Do Not Miss the Sermon Review, It’s THAT Important**
• 2015 Prophetic Stragglers Matt Sorger & Jim Bakker
• Cindy Jacobs and the Highway of Holiness?
• T.D. Jakes on Supply & Demand
• Sermon Review: Brand New by Andy Stanley
Source: Chris Rosebrough, Don’t Miss The Sermon Review!, Fighting for the Faith, http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2015/02/dont-miss-the-sermon-review.html, Published 12/02/2015. (Accessed 15/02/2015.)
Chris has also reviewed Stanley’s next sermon:
FEBRUARY 16, 2015
Andy Stanley’s Da Vinci Code Rewrite Of Church History
Click Here to Download this episode
Program segments:
• Andy Stanley’s Da Vinci Code Rewrite of Church History
Source: Chris Rosebrough, Andy Stanley’s Da Vinci Code Rewrite Of Church History, Fighting for the Faith, http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2015/02/andy-stanleys-da-vinci-code-rewrite-of-church-history.html, Published 16/02/2015. (Accessed 21/02/2015.)
Philip Lee writes,
What Andy Stanley is Teaching This Month and Why it Matters
I’ve listened to Andy Stanley’s most recent Sunday sermon three times now. I watched the 9:00 AM service live online. I listened to the download made available by North Point Community Church, which came from the second service and contains a few minor differences compared to the sermon I watched live. Finally, I listened to Chris Rosebrough’s review of the sermon in the February 16 edition of Fighting for the Faith.
Why? I think what’s happening at North Point this month is going to have long-lasting effects on American, and even global, Christianity.
Andy Stanley is easily one of the top five most influential pastors in America, and maybe top 2-3. It’s impossible to quantify such things of course, but it is easily seen if you pay attention to the broad landscape of American Evangelicalism. It’s no secret that pastors around the country duplicate Stanley’s sermons and series, and there have been documented cases of pastors plagiarizing Stanley word-for-word. Thousands and thousands of pastors around America and around the world look to Stanley as a leader and follow his teaching and methods.
Stanley is currently teaching a five week series titled Brand: New. Stanley’s assumption is that Christianity has been corrupted by “Temple Model” thinking since the days of Constantine. He defines the Temple Model as being controlled by sacred places, sacred texts, sacred men, and sincere followers.
His definition of the true Jesus religion comes from half a verse in Galatians. In the ESV, Galatians 5:6 in its entirety reads, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.” In his sermon series, Stanley has repeatedly quoted the NIV’s translation of the second sentence of the verse which reads, “The only thing that matters is faith expressing itself through love.”
Stanley is attempting to build a doctrine of Christianity on half of one verse. And his version of Christianity is one in which it doesn’t matter what a person believes or does, as long as they love their neighbors.
In other words, Stanley is embracing theological liberalism. Actually it might be better to say he’s no longer hiding his theological liberalism.
Three years ago Al Mohler asked, following an Andy Stanley sermon, if the megachurch is the new liberalism. In that sermon, Stanley told the story of two men in his church involved in a homosexual relationship. One man was divorced, the other still married. Stanley told the congregation that the men were forbidden from serving in the church, not because they were in a homosexual relationship, but because one was still married and therefore committing adultery. Many people questioned at the time if Stanley was signaling his approval of gay Christianity – the idea that a person can be actively involved in a homosexual relationship and a Christian.
When I first read about what Stanley was teaching in the Brand: New series I thought he was going to come out as gay affirming. After listening to the first and third sermons in the series I’m not convinced he’s going to make that explicit at this time, but I do believe he is laying the groundwork to do this in the future. Based on comments made this past Sunday, it does seem likely that Stanley is going to endorse female leadership in the church in week five of the series.
All of this is significant because of Stanley’s influence.
If Stanley openly embraces liberalism in the name of bringing more people to Jesus, thousands of others will follow. It should be noted that liberals have been making the same argument for more than two centuries, and that every church that has embraced liberalism is now dead or dying, but the arguments keep being made and people keep buying into them.
Liberalism has always denied essential doctrines of the Christian faith in order to make the faith more palatable to unbelievers. The problem is that if people don’t believe in the God who has revealed in Himself in Scripture, if they don’t believe in the Jesus revealed in Scripture, they are not in Christ, no matter what they call themselves.
The seeker-sensitive movement, in which Stanley is a major player, seeks to make Christianity as accessible as possible to the largest number of people possible. Up to now, most seeker-sensitive churches have remained theologically sound on paper while functioning as liberal churches. They’ve managed to keep their feet in both worlds.
I think that’s about to change.
Stanley has been always been zeroed in on what’s happening in the culture. Twenty years ago when he started North Point in the heart of the Bible Belt, he could not have survived by openly embracing liberalism. The Bible Belt culture simply would not have tolerated a pastor who openly endorsed homosexual Christianity, female pastors, a denial of the Biblical account of creation, or any of the other hot-button issues of our day.
Things have changed. Even among professing Christians today, very few still hold to those positions. Stanley now sees that it is more costly to deny that a homosexual can be involved in homosexual sin and be a Christian than it is to embrace gay Christianity. Even in the Bible Belt, it will be more costly to deny evolution than embrace it.
So, he will say that it doesn’t matter what a person believes as long as they love.
It was very telling, and honestly shocking, that it in this past Sunday’s sermon he indicated that it didn’t matter that Arius believed Jesus wasn’t eternal. For 1700 years virtually every branch of religion that calls itself Christian; Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestantism has agreed that Arius was a heretic who was outside the Christian faith. Stanley said Sunday that it was no big deal. It doesn’t matter what a person believes, as long as they love.
The problem is that Jesus and the Apostles repeatedly warned against those who would proclaim a different gospel or a different Jesus. A Jesus who is not eternally God, as Arius taught, is most certainly a different Jesus than the one revealed in Scripture. The blood of a different Jesus can not atone for our sins.
I do believe that God’s grace is such that those who are unknowingly caught up in a false system can be saved in spite of what they’re being taught if they recognize their sinfulness and trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins. But woe to those who preach a different gospel. It’s ironic that Stanley is using a verse from Galatians as the foundation for his series. In Galatians 1:6-9 Paul wrote:
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
The immediate context of Paul’s letter to the Galatians was the Judaizers attempting to make circumcision a requirement for salvation. Stanley is clearly not doing that. But, in saying that the only thing that matters at the end of the day is how well we’ve loved our neighbors, he is coming dangerously close to preaching a different gospel and putting people back under the yoke of the Law, if he hasn’t crossed the line.
The summary of the Law and the Prophets, according to Jesus in Matthew 22:37-40, is “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Loving your neighbor as you love yourself is Law, and the Law cannot save you unless you keep it perfectly from the day you’re born until the day you die. The problem? We’re all born dead in trespasses and sins and cannot keep the Law. We’re all guilty. So telling people it doesn’t matter what they believe as long as they love others is actually putting people back under the yoke of the Law.
Should we love God? Absolutely! Should we love our neighbors? Absolutely! But if we try to do so without being given new life by God’s grace through faith in the Jesus revealed to us in Scripture, we remain dead in our trespasses and sins and children of God’s wrath. There is no salvation without repentance and faith in the true Jesus.
I don’t yet know what Stanley is going to say in the final two sermons of this series. I think we all need to be paying attention though. Stanley’s influence is such that if he goes off the rails of orthodoxy and into apostasy, American Christianity as we know it will change forever. I don’t think I’m exaggerating.
Source: By Philip Lee, What Andy Stanley is Teaching This Month and Why it Matters, 24 Emmaus Rd, http://24emmausroad.blogspot.com.au/2015/02/what-andy-stanley-is-teaching-this.html, Published 17/02/2015. (Accessed 19/02/2015.)
Hillsong Church Watch 
Watching Andy Stanley’s Brand New motor mouth message. How ANYONE can follow this carefully is beyond me. Turns out HE is the reason every church I have been in for the last couple of years is painted black and looks and smells (ewww) like an abandoned concert hall after a rock concert.
Talked to one guy the other day about why his church is black. His excuse….I kid you not….black paint is cheaper. Right.
But Mr. Stanley says the church should be irresistable. Jesus says we will be persecuted because He was persecuted. Which Bible is Andy Hardy reading?
He’s talking about the church being irresistible for the wrong reasons. All the man-made road blocks erected to keep “sinners” out.
He knows the gospel is offensive. It tells people that they are sinners in need of a savior. He’s saying we don’t need to be offensive ourselves.
If someone is going to reject the gospel, they should reject it bc they don’t see their need for a savior, not bc church folks are hateful, carpet-color-idol-worshipper a, homophobic, too-politically-minded or white washed tombs.
So many reasons people reject the church that have nothing to do with Jesus.
Jesus always chose to love people where they were and then trusted God to change them. That’s what North Point churches work to do: meet people where they are, get them in community and the Word and watch God do amazing things in their lives.
“So many reasons people reject the church that have nothing to do with Jesus.”
Just as God will reject Andy Stanley’s “church” because it has nothing to do with Jesus.
“[Stanley] knows the gospel is offensive.”
Andy Stanley is well-qualified to judge, because he himself is offensive, being, as he is, a stench in God’s nostrils.
“That’s what north point churches work to do …”
Where there is a cult, there will *always* be works – and we can see that you are prepared to frankly admit that north point “churches” ‘work’ to achieve their ends.
What a shame that you haven’t read your Bible; otherwise you would have come across the term “dead works”, and you might have even understood its import for yourself and all the other self-righteous reprobates who make up your “congregation”. Your so-called “church” is providing you with an express service to the lake of fire…
What you don’t get, is that there is a real live devil involved!
Really? Getting them involved? that’s getting the devil involved and once he’s in you think he’s going to change, all on account of your loving him?!
That’s like taking the flu virus into your body and loving it so that it won’t make you sick!
Like the Muslims see liberal Americans like the suckers that they are, taking full advantage of our way of life via freedom that we preach, this is how they infiltrate our country and then change it from the inside out. Now guess who I’m really talking about? The same dude, the devil! He’s using the same method for both subjects and you probably don’t see either of them, this makes you his tool for entrance! And that is why America And Christianity is threatened because you want to love a virus in your body so it doesn’t make you sick, Satan is the virus, wake up! You can love them from outside the church, if they want to repent, if they want to acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ for who he is as it stated in the Bible then they can’t to feel the need to make their sin a lifestyle!
God couldn’t succeed and changing Lucifer hence the reason he’s no longer in heaven, hello!
These people want to change the Christian Church from the inside out but more than these people its Satan at work
Wake up!
the bible the word of god is being replaced with mens teachings. the church has become more important than jesus himself.
I wrote a response to the sermon series here: http://xaqmatthews.blogspot.com/2015/03/not-so-brand-new.html
Stanley clearly has a very misguided understanding of Christianity, and he made it incredibly clear over the last five weeks.
Your response is very good. Would you mind us sharing your article on our sites?
That would be great, thank you 🙂
I’ve been attending North Point Community Church for 6 years now, and today I was trying to re-watch a sermon from the Brand New series online, and this website came up under my search. After reading this article I am very disappointed on the critical remarks about Andy Stanley and his teachings. In this series he is saying that Jesus said the greatest commandment is to love God and to love our neighbors. He is saying that every commandment we are given revolves around this. I hope people reading this article actually go watch these services in the Brand New series for themselves. Go to the North Point Community Chuch website and you can watch all the services there.
Sara – a major problem that we have with Andy Stanley, (as pointed out with our latest article refuting his false doctrine), is his idolatry. Too many people like Andy Stanley push the “love God love people” mantra without realising that is nothing but the Law. The Law is not the gospel. The Law will only bring people to despair and misery. They need to hear the gospel.
If that is not enough, when the mantra “love God love neighbour” is espoused, God is often de-emphasised and man is magnified. We’ve noticed this is done so false teachers like Andy Stanley can manipulate people to embrace modern day philosophies and practices. For example, same sex equality.
To elevate the love of man above the love of God is idolatry. And for Andy Stanley to encourage Christians to embrace this form of idolatry is incredibly unloving.
These men do anything to make themselves and their movements look successful at the expense of truth. When you unpack what he did in this sermon series, he’s not acting genuine. He crafted these sermons to manipulate people to build his own kingdom. How can anyone find this behaviour acceptable?
“I am very disappointed on the critical remarks about Andy Stanley and his teachings.”
So you yourself admit that the teachings are Stanley’s, rather than God’s.
If you are upset over well-deserved criticism levelled at the nonsensical drivel being foisted on unwary victims by arrogant reprobates, it could only be because you worship said reprobates, rather than worshipping the One True God. Since you have not seen fit to love the truth, you have been sold under a strong delusion that has caused you to follow instead the lies that you clearly prefer. This is God’s righteous judgement on you, and is an unmistakable harbinger of your eventual fate.
Our observations were made from actually listening to the sermons as well, Sara.
dont forget something that is not the least of the problems. it should not be ignored.
andy stanley has in the past consistently introduced/led his followers toward still other false teachers.
there is nothing to indicate he intends to stop this practice in the future.
that in and of itself is a serious problem folks..
even if AS had not been putting forth all these above mentioned false teachings, it still wouldnt matter, the fact is his false teacher friends would be still pumping heresy into his churchgoers heads..
i actually have an even bigger problem with this issue. because for every one bad teaching AS can come up with, chances are his friends come up with several more..
AS was a spkr at perry nobles newspring leadership conference & bill hybels global leadership summit just for starters.
not good..
nfg
I don’t see what the big huff is about. Other than they could be jealous of Andy Stanley. You forget God is a whole lot bigger than any situation and his word will cut through anything. Anything means anything! If you only listen to andy Stanley them maybe you could be led astray. We do read our own bibles and listen to other preachers that aren’t so shit hot. I don’t see what the big fuss is about. You worrying about things like this. There’s people dying out there in the world. Kids get raped and killed every day. People get raped and killed every day. People die of starvation every day. People die of sicknesses every day. More and more people are becoming drug addicts and alcoholics every day. They need your efforts on the streets Mr Church water. With all your knowledge and education surely you can figure out that the world needs you more than an online blog does to condemn another preacher for what he has said and hasn’t said. Imagine if you could stop one child from growing up and becoming a mutderer or rapist. If we could just spend our time with someone in need . May the lord bless all of us and keep us honest in the mighty name of Jesus Christ our Saviour King!
Then why are you reading this blog David? Doesn’t the world need you?
I agree. I did not get any of what this person did out of his sermon. I’ve sat in other churches BOUND and feeling like I cannot ever be good enough or perfect enough. I sat in a service I was invited to today and heard Brand: New Apoplectic. I was in tears. I’ve seen those self righteous leaders tearing people down. I’ve been torn down by them. I think of all the man made RULES that were forced upon us a Biblical truths. I’m not saying Andy has it all correct all the time. I’m just saying that what I got out of this sermon was NOT what the original poster did.
While increasingly worldly and liberal “pastors” decide to no longer preach God’s word and/or explain it away like Andy Stanley, there are brave Christians out there still who are willing to shine light into darkness.
There are Christians willing and able to repent from their homosexual lifestyle and identity. e.g. personal testimony of Dr. Rosaria Butterfield – ex-lesbian, now Christian. http://www.ligonier.org/learn/conferences/after-darkness-light-2015-national-conference/repentance-renewal/?format=audio
I have a Dr in theology and have served as a Pastor for over 30 years in a very conservative denomination. I seek truth at all cost no matter where it takes me. I do not say this lightly therefore: Andy Stanley is speaking total truth. it is you who have not done your homework.
If you are a Dr in theology and have been an experienced Pastor for over 30 years in a very conservative denomination, can you explain to us where Andy Stanley is speaking “total truth?”
His message was coherently unstable and he contradicted his message and his ministry.
“I have a Dr in theology […]”
I assume that what you are *trying* to say is that you have a *doctorate* in theology, or perhaps that you have a *PhD*, which allows you to be addressed as “Dr Moron” or “Dr Scumbag”, or whatever your surname may be.
If you don’t understand the difference between the degree itself and the consequently conferred honorific, I seriously doubt that your “doctorate” is real – or perhaps you don’t have a PhD at all, and you are just flat-out lying. (I was going to point out that anyone who is ignorant of the pertinent nomenclature hardly presented as being credible by any stretch of the imagination, but I’m guessing that you probably don’t know what “nomenclature” means).
“[…] and have served as a Pastor for over 30 years […]”
So do you have thirty years experience, or one year’s experience thirty times over? Seriously though, you have not served as a pastor for a single day – it’s clear that you are not cut from the right sort of cloth to take on such a role (you know how it is: ignorant and boorish prats who are full of their own importance need not bother applying).
“[…] in a very conservative denomination.”
Ah, at last we have a statement that rings true: you are a spiritually dead wannabe who’s found a perfect fit in spiritually dead organisation (as ever, the blind end up being led by the blind).
“I seek truth at all cost no matter where it takes me.”
D’oh! Apparently it hasn’t taken you to the feet of Jesus Christ.
“I do not say this lightly therefore […]”
Of course you don’t. That’s because there is no light in you whatsoever.
“Andy Stanley is speaking total truth […]”
As opposed to “partial truth”, is that right? That would be explain why Jesus said “I am the way, the total truth, and the life”, wouldn’t it?
“[…] it is you who have not done your homework.”
I’m surprised you even know what homework is – surely you must have left school at such an early age that you never encountered such a thing (or did you perhaps undertake the odd bit of finger painting at home?)
Ed you would be a lot easier to take seriously if you made serious arguments rather than just attack and name call.
Go for it Ed. Kick him in the guts. Flog him. Whip him and tear him down.
Whatever happened to kindness? It is responses like Eds response all over this website that show the true intentions of moderators on this website. Comments like this that incite reactions and are full of spite aren’t coming from the right place.
“The church has largely been guilty of being unloving, and all of our pursuits of theological knowledge are ultimately in vain if they do not make us more loving. The church has been guilty of being more concerned with theological pride than with loving our neighbor. The church has been guilty of being more concerned with appearing wise than with operating with wisdom. The church has been guilty of accusatory judgment rather than graciousness and patience with sinners. The church has been guilty of selfishness rather than selflessness. The church ought not give up on solid theology, but the church ought to recognize that its theology is intended to propel its love.”
Fred says “It is responses like Eds response all over this website that show the true intentions of moderators on this website. Comments like this that incite reactions and are full of spite aren’t coming from the right place.”
Fred, try moderating this site, the (blocked) trolls that try to comment here would make even the most cynical-minded “blush”.
But let’s ask the question, would Jesus be considered “kind” by today’s standards? Jesus says in Matthew 15:26, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs”. Bit harsh? Incite a reaction? Did Christ’s politically-incorrect lack of “kindness” draw many to him as he went about the countryside of his day? Even his disciples deserted him John 6:60-71.
Or, like many have said here in the past, a little “unkindness” actually made them look more deeply into the scriptures, and find themselves leaving the false teaching they’ve sat under for years and seek out biblically sound churches.
Ed,
Without making a single comment on Andy Stanley (I have mixed opinions), might I suggest that your vicious treatment of others who post look nothing like the God you claim to defend. Is it possible that Matthew 7:3-5 applies to you?
“Is it possible that Matthew 7:3-5 applies to you?”
Pastor Todd Crofford, with all due respect to you, you of all people being a pastor SHOULD KNOW that Matthew 7:3-5 applies to hypocritical judgement. Yes sometimes Ed’s lingo is harsh, but he’s not a hypocrite. He doesn’t do the things being discussed here. He gets a bit emotional defending the truth. Please don’t take Matthew 7:3-5 out of context. Ed is tired of all the lies being pushed on the Body of Christ, like the rest of us are tired of it. Thx.
Wile I understand your concern, please feel free at any time to enlighten me how referencing a brother in Christ as “Dr. Scumbag” ever forwards the cause of the kingdom or ever helps your side of the argument.
Want to ask Paul the same question why he referred to two people in the church and their teaching as “gangrene”?
I’m sure it makes you feel good to compare your moderators to the likes of Paul, but your behaviors much more mimic those who burned other believers at the stake. Thanks for the interaction and may you somehow successfully bring us all to the perfection of your theology through your vigilant and angry rhetoric.
Our apologies Todd Crofford, as someone who condones Andy Stanley’s ‘non-cheating’ preaching, we should have realized that the scriptures aren’t as important to you as they are to us.
2 Timothy 2:16-18 “But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.”
http://pulpitandpen.org/2015/05/08/andy-stanley-trashes-expository-preaching-calls-it-easy-and-cheating/
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“I’m sure it makes you feel good”
Really? How ‘sure’ are you Todd? Have you ever met any of the moderators here? Tell the truth… how many articles have you read on this site? You do realize don’t you, that the media reports (both Christian and Secular) are reporting many of the same things being reported on this site.
“but your behaviors much more mimic those who burned other believers at the stake.”
Now there is a flat out lie. Nobody here would ever advocate killing another believer especially with torture. Yours is a false argument. How well do you understand the Scriptures? Eph 5:11, Rom 16:17. Evidently you don’t truly believe what the Bible says.
“Thanks for the interaction and may you somehow successfully bring us all to the perfection of your theology through your vigilant and angry rhetoric.”
At least someone _here_ is trying to hold unbiblical liars accountable. So then, what are _you_ doing about false teachers spreading lies Todd? Anything? Does your church tell the lie of taking in ‘tithes?’ Since you don’t believe in calling out false teachers or false teachings, do you go around spreading their heresy instead? Too bad you weren’t around in the time of Paul to correct Paul on his ‘vigilant and angry rhetoric.’ And we wouldn’t have some of the New Testament if you had been that big man in charge that you seem to envision yourself to be, would we?
Andy Stanley is a false teacher, why doesn’t that bother you? Because it really should if you have any sort of conscience. Whose side are you on? What kind of pastor are you?
Against my better judgement I guess I will continue this conversation and do my best to answer your question, “What kind of pastor are you?” Hmmm…
Well, I would say imperfect- relying on God’s grace to get it right, but sort of like Paul in Philippians 3:12, straining toward the goal. I confess I do miss the mark some days, but I seek increasingly to see the following fruit grow in my life
Love. There are a ton of lost people out there far from God, and since I am a receptor of God’s grace I better be a channel of it as well. So at our church, we work to love lost people without condoning sinful behaviors. A tough balance but one we strive to maintain here- and I don’t think we have to comprise the gospel to accomplish that.
Joy. When Jesus rescued me out of the empty life apart from him, I discovered a joy in my salvation and walk with him that the world could never provide. I sure do want others to discover that.
Peace. I lay my head down well at night because I believe I John 1:7
Patience. Well who doesn’t need more of thatt? But I am still learning as a pastor to deal with all sorts of challenges in people’s lives. Tempting to give up on people sometimes, but God has been awfully patient with me.
Kindness. Blowing holes in people and beating them over the head with angry vitriol hardly fits with Colossians 4:6. So I attempt to engage unbelievers and believers with kindness.
Goodness. Well, the entirety of the book of James pretty much tells us that doctrinal purity without works of compassion is pretty empty, so I am a pastor who leads a church that feeds our community through bread ministry, drills wells in Africa where entire communities are suffering without clean water. Ministers to orphans in Cuba, has worked with fledgling churches in Guatemala and the Dominican republic, opens our doors to homeless, particularly during the colder winter months here, recognizes under-served veterans, prays with our police officers, feeds out local teachers, raises funds for the disabled,
Faithfulness. I work hard and carefully to exegete God’s word rightly and within historic orthodoxy.
Gentleness. This email may be borderline on that one. Going to have to get quiet before God about that.
Self-Control. Truthfully I am trying to exercise that right now.
Well, that’s the kind of pastor I am. I fear not nearly as good of one as I should be, but by grace better than I used to be. That is the sanctifying process, is it not?
Todd Crofford says:
“I have mixed opinions [on Andy Stanley]”.
That’s because you are clueless and double-minded. Jesus Christ is the Lion of the tribe of Judah, but you don’t even make the grade as a clanging gong. No one who knows their onions pays any attention at all to losers like you and your mate “Dr.” Scumbag.
A tweet from ‘pastor’ Todd Crofford:
‘The darkest place you encounter today will be where your light can shine most brightly.’
Wow, that’s really deep stuff there, Todd.
I reckon you ought to write one of those inspirational and uplifting self-help books – you know, rainbows and unicorns on the cover, lots of useful information about angels and spirit-guides; all that sort of stuff.
“Without making a single comment on Andy Stanley (I have mixed opinions)”
“Mixed opinions”, huh?
Mr Crofford, Until you do you your due diligence, rather than making an UNINFORMED comment, why not keeping your mouth shut, rather than waste everyone’s time?
Jesus Loves You, Have a nice day. 🙂
@Todd Crofford,
“Jesus Loves You, Have a nice day.”
Ah yes, your very own saccharine saviour, who is nothing if not the archetypal shrinking violet – he who would never venture to so much as raise his voice or hurt anyone’s ever-so-tender feelings. And we can understand how warmly you have embraced this one whom you have made in your own image, given that his pathological timidity both reflects and validates your own pathetic and miserable existence as a mealy-mouthed man-pleasing mediocrity.
Perhaps one day you will discover that the word of the Lord is like fire, and like a hammer that breaks a rock into pieces. (Of course, you should already know that, seeing as how it’s written in the Bible – for a bloke who reckons he’s a “pastor”, you don’t know much, do you?)
I have been a walking Christian for 30 years. I am rooted in the Word. I have seen the first hand how “temple system church” with there legalism, non biblical traditions, beliefs and practices keep people for seeing Jesus. They are the barrier. After 35 years we left a Church that was more concerned about politics and congregational manipulation that with bringing our lost community to Jesus. Who wants to be a part a good news gospel where the members are so biblically flawed? I heard Andys message, and he aticulated all the resons my falmily left that chucrh. People will come To Andys churches because there is somthing different than the dead dry rutine religion that the world offers. They are asked to get into long tern small groups where Christian growth, discipleship and the real Church functions. The Brand New series is the best and most life changing teaching from the pulpit I have ever heard. I walk with Jesus asking the question what does love requier me to do every day and I am able to lead people to Jesus all the time. Yall should walk with Jesus more and you might not have so much time to point fingers at others. You sound just like the bitter Christians I always want to get away from!
Seeking truth at all cost is not how you lead people to Jesus who dont have the Spirit of God to understand the things of God.The things of God are folishness to them.You must build relationships with love and show them who Jesus is thought that love.We are His voices on Earth and that voice better be love first and truth latter. I know I came to know Jesus by a man who loved me unconditionally for the first time in my life.Since you have taken it to the level of personal attack how well is your truth church going. People coming to Jesus and getting baptized every day? Spirituallity isx not measured by what you know it’s measured by how well you love others. You will have to answer one day mean Pastor
“Spirituallity isx not measured by what you know it’s measured by how well you love others.”
Untrue! If that were true, then many unsaved philanthropists would go to Heaven. And many other persons would go to Heaven who love their family & friends yet detest & disavow God and His Word.
James 1:27 kills your argument:
“Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.”
So does Matthew 22:37.
Spirituality will not be measured by how well you love others, it will be measured by how closely your life reflects the ENTIRE teachings of Jesus when examined under a microscope. This clearly includes your approach to handling false teachers & rejection of their false teachings.
“People will come To Andys churches […]”
Sure they will. Boatloads of tares and goats beyond number will flock to hear such frauds. They will travel over land and sea; they will spare no expense in their desperate quest to find a salve that takes away the terrible itch in their ears.
As for the elect, they will come to God’s church…
Don’t… goats… eat… … tares?
“Don’t… goats… eat… … tares?”
Well I’ve certainly heard that “Mairzy doats and dozy doats and liddle lamzy divey”. Maybe hillsong could write a song about goats and tares; I’m sure that it would be a super-anointed world-beater.
“Maybe hillsong could write a song about goats and tares; I’m sure that it would be a super-anointed world-beater.”
Sounds like something Mr. Sparkle should perform.
“I have been a walking Christian for 30 years.”
Wow, you must be getting really tired!
Reblogged this on The Narrowing Path.
Wow. I came across this looking up this series in google. It’s one I like to share with friends who are caught in cults, bc cults always have “sacred men in sacred places, interpreting sacred scriptures for the superstitious followers….”
Anyway, I’m impressed. I didn’t think church folks could tear one another, bite and devour one another more than when I was in the PCA but I guess I was wrong. You guys have definitely done it well.
This is it, guys. This is the unity Jesus prayed for us. This shows true love and care for the body of Christ: encouraging us to stay away from evil, liberal teachers like Andy Stanley, and reminding us that church is about what we believe and not how we treat others.
My hubby and I are pretty firmly rooted. We listen to all the biblical preachers you could mention, from Piper to Keller. We’ve read the books, from Augustine to the puritans. We are head-knowledge-filled-to-overflowing! We’ve been to the conferences and can speak the language.
And we’ve seen lives changed through the Spirit working people’s lives.
But when? Was it when we were in a church filled with factious, idolatrous albeit knowledgable church folks? What about when my husband was an elder, surrounded by angry, belligerent albeit knowledgeable church men? Or in the women’s bible studies where the women knew all the right answers but one was kindly redirected if she felt like she needed to confess sin?
Nope, it was when we got out of all that phariseeism and got involved in a church that actually worked (alongside the Holy Spirit) to change people’s lives from the inside out. Now we are at one of Andy’s churches bc we know we will be a part of something that isn’t church for church’s sake but for God changing lives’ sake.
I don’t know any of you, but I’d hate to know your hearts and minds were leading the church I was in.
“Now we are at one of Andy’s churches bc we know we will be a part of something that isn’t church for church’s sake but for God changing lives’ sake.”
And that’s why you need to leave. Church is not about changing lives. It’s about preaching the gospel to see people saved.
Keep looking. You haven’t found a church yet.
Andy Stanley has continued to introduce and promote his heresies for several years. I would leave his ‘church’ if I were you. Just one example:
http://www.dennyburk.com/andy-stanleys-poison-pill-for-the-doctrine-of-scripture/
“Now we are at one of Andy’s churches bc we know we will be a part of something that isn’t church […]”
That’s quite right: you are part of something that isn’t church, as it has nothing whatsoever to do with God.
This is turkey gobble churchwatcher and you know it.
“Church is not about changing lives. It’s about preaching the gospel to see people saved.”
If your life hasn’t changed because you are saved then it would be arguable to say that you are not really taking things seriously.
Gee you can talk some garbage sometimes churchwatcher.
“Gee you can talk some garbage sometimes churchwatcher.”
“Fred”, If you were paying attention, you’d get what churchwatcher means. Brian Houston’s “theology” is not really about preaching Justification & Sanctification) at all. Brian Houston would have you believe church is all about becoming successful & becoming the best superstar that you can be (that kind of “changed life”).
Sounds like the people that wrote this need to check themselves. What spirit are you seeing this through? Is it upbtobyou to condemn another man or condemn homosexuality? We are to be held accountable. But the word of God still runs out of Andy and trumps any doubt or doubters. Female pastors can exist because technically they are still under authority from the head pastor. Jesus Christ came to save homosexuals too. CHECK YO SELF BEFORE YOU WRECK YO SELF
Jesus Christ came to save homosexuals – but not to affirm their lifestyles.
And are we to condemn people in the name of love? Yes. Gods Word tells us too. Misguided Christians or false Christians love to twist Jesus’ words in Matt 7 and John 8 to promote lawlessness and sin in Christ’s church, thus promoting apostasy and endorsing great wickedness in Jesus’ name.
So your calling Andy Stanley a false Christian? Who are you to judge or condemn? Remember what day and age we are in. This isn’t 700AD it’s 2015. We have to use the word to be able to work in 2015. Overall if your judging and condemning then your falling short somewhere along the lines and restricting the love of Jesus Christ to come in and to shift situations. You lack faith for gods power to pass through this world. Homosexual bisexual or straight. God can do miraculous things if we have faith as small as a mustard seed
A false teacher is not a Christian David. Have you not read what Jesus said about false teachers David? They belong outside of Christ’s church and Jesus warns us not to walk with them down the wide road.
“Overall if your judging and condemning…”
No. We are pointing out that Christ has already judged false teachers like Andy Stanley. Jesus warns you to put your faith in Him and His Word – not the words of false teachers.
“You lack faith for gods power to pass through this world.”
Christ is the Power of God incarnate. That is who we put our faith in this world. Go do likewise.
“God can do miraculous things if we have faith as small as a mustard seed.”
True. We follow Christ and don’t put our faith in men. You on the other hand are putting Andy and his teachings above God’s Word.
Not a smart idea. That’s idolatry. You need to repent of your sins and turn back to Christ and His saving work at Calvary.
It’s situations like this that separates christ believers all over the world. The overall point of Christ was to give humanity a chance to be born again. We judge out brother how we would want God to judge ourselves. You are a man no God. The devil creeps in often through isolating us from eachother. We are believers. But the nature of this discussion just Bri his feelings of he’s wrong in right. Which I know for sure wasn’t what Jesus intended when he got nailed to that cross. That’s we have all sorts of different ‘churches’. 7th day Adventist. Jehovah’s witnesses, apostolic , catholic, brethren, Anglican etc… Aren’t we all Christ believers? JESUS CHRIST BELIEVERS
Well you tell me mr brain dead. Why did Jesus come to the earth???
Shree cmon genius have you got an explanation for me then if you disagree? Educate me I’m willing to learn if your so high and mighty you must know the answer? Hop on your high horse and go …. Yourself
All comments will be deleted if the interaction isn’t civil and on topic.
Team ChurchWatch.
Ok let’s keep it clean
Mr church water I don’t think I idolise Andy but if there is any chance of it then I will repent. There a whole lot more that I need to repent of if you want to start counting up sins. Mr Church water you want took in your own back yard before you go on looking at everyone else’s problems. I bet your arse you ain’t no perfect follower!
When you see my comments you only seek to view them through the spirit of condemnation and making me wrong about everything. Who are you to say?
You know what man. You got me intrigued, you sound like you have more experience behind you then I do. And possibly got me on the idolatry thing also. Have you got any material or podcasts from wherever it is your from?
Hey to the guy that asked about if I think homosexual people are pleasing to God!? Answer that 1 yourself silly of course I don’t think so but some of these people have been raped as kids. Raped by there parents raped by uncles by strangers. They grow up confused and some are just plain homosexual. Thank the lord I am straight but I can’t even imagine none of us actually can unless you are actually gay. What it would be like. And if they could even change. Raped as a child and raised to think it was normal behaviour them have all these Christians tell you your wrong your bad your evil. Turn back?? Man I don’t know about you but that doesn’t sound like the love of god come to pass on earth through us
God bless you brothers and sisters. mr Church water I hope you can link me up with some good material I am open minded and always looking to learn how to become a better man. If you k ew the place I came from you would be glad we are even debating about this subject as 10 years ago i wouldn’t have even cared
Mr church water is it true… The greatest commandment of all. Love one another as Christ loved us
Hi David – visit the resources on our side bar. Fighting for the Faith, White Horse Inn, The Dividing Line. When we were hungry for deeper teaching – we stumbled across them and found them boring at first. That was until we heard them out and discovered that these men truly encourage us to take our faith seriously and to grow in wisdom and maturity.
You will actually be able to give a defense your faith and be more fearless in sharing Christ with people.
Thanks I will check it out for sure. Good luck with your defending the faith. The real world needs more than trying to find faults in other believers. I hope your wisdom and experience in service to our faith covers a lot more than setting up web pages to persecute people
Love this song Saviour king http://youtu.be/XzXwkToBNZY
In all your wisdom you sorta dampen our spirit as believers. Definitely a must to keep us in check but this is the most exciting message the world will ever know of. God coming to earth because he loved us. Don’t take that excitement away man. If we are to grow and get more souls saved. We have to portray the best image we could possible. Bless you brother
Cmon Man I know what your saying and it ain persecution like the early christians
What is it that you actually do for the faith?
Brother what do you actually do I can see you are well schooled and well educated particularly in the scriptures are you a pastor?
David, you are awesome!
Hey guys been a while since I was las debating with mr church water. Glad we did as he bought up the subject of idolise thank you sir. Since then iv been talking to all sorts of people. my boxing career has had me meet a number of different types of individuals far from ever going to church . Also a lot of Muslim people some of which I’ve known a while and love them like family. I also have met a soldier at work who served in Afghanistan. The subject of religion came up of course and wow my views have been shifted again. The Muslim guy I was talking too knows I’m a Christ believer but for some reason he always feels the need to tell me the ‘truth’ about Christ etc etc. thankful I am very stubborn and I know what I believe. He has so many cases that I’ve already heard before from people he has converted to Islam. I wish he would try talk to some of you who follow and some highly educated Christ believers, as I’m not as equipped or experienced enough for this guy. He has converted a few professional well known athletes and a lot of people in general. I then was working with my new friend the other day. Found out he was a soldier in Afganistan. I can see the effect it has had on him yet he is an amazing man and still young. I thought there could be a hole there or oppertunity to someday win him over to Christ. He told me some stories and I really listened like I try to when someone is when they talk to me. And even try put myself in his shoes for a moment. He has seen some horrific events. And turns out he doesn’t care or see the difference between Islam and Christian atheist or Buddhist. He hates religion all together! He said he used to walk past innocent dead bodies. Children that have been killed because they were not running in line with there beliefs. I was humbled and seen that it was wrong for me to claim I’m ‘good’ because Im Christian not Muslim. I felt like a total dick. This guy has been trained and sent to war because of religion. He clearly stated he hates any religion because people die because of it! How can there be a god? Anyway just thought I’d share. And maybe some of you can get someone from this
Some links explaining problems with islam:
http://www.bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm
https://shariaunveiled.wordpress.com/about-2/the-truth/
G’day David,
the area of Christian apologetics is quite daunting at first.
Remember the bible should be and remain top spiritual weapon against any arguments made. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+10%3A3-6&version=KJV
All good bro I’ll check it out
I’ll write you some of the things he has come up with. Some arguments they’ve researched into. He reckons Pauls a fraud. And the trinity isn’t true. There was nothing I could say tho he wouldn’t hear it anyway. Some people only hear what they wana hear. Otherwise they just pretend to listen and think about what they are guna say next while your talking. This is good least we can all communicate on here
Frm David Aloua
>
A lot of Muslim scholars reject or take issues with Apostle Paul and his writings.
Interestingly enough, you can make a case for the trinity using the Koran. Nevertheless, we encourage Christians to present Muslim’s with scriptures as “faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God.”
Yea bro that’s why I didn’t say anything. I do know that everything has to come from the word. He reckoned there’s only 1 miracle Jesus claims. The Jonah in the wale thing. Reckons Jesus said so will the son of man go into the earth and be raised on the 3rd day. They reckon Jesus never died. That he was a prophet like Moses. I said what about tall the miraculous things he did? Not 1 of Hem could catch him out on anything. He reckons God sent him like Moses according to the times. Back when Moses was around Magic amazed people. When Jesus was around healing amazed people. He’s had these discussions with many priests etc. he said they didn’t even know as much as he did about religion. I didn’t really give a crap to be honest I know what I believe and I know he’s a fool if he thinks God was incapable of doing such a thing. To give the oppertunity for all men to be forgiven and leave there life of sin. For God so LOVED the world that he gave his only begotten son. That whoever BELIEVES in him should not perish but have everlasting life. I forgot where it’s from please enlighten me. but it sums it up plain and simple in such a complicated situation. From my simple uneducated understanding we meet gods love by faith in his son. We will never meet it by works we would never be able to do enough
Lots of Apologetics websites to suggest but remembered this one.
It is good because it supplies material suitable for seekers/ New Christians, Christian apologists and anyone in between.
e.g.http://www.bethinking.org/tag/problem-of-evil
https://carm.org/islam
Islam
Introduction
Muslims, please read this first video
The Gospel for Muslims video
What is Islam? video
Bibliography
Doctrines of Islam
What are the doctrines of Islam?
The Five Pillars of Islam
True faith in Islam
Islamic terms
Regarding Islam
Muhammad video 1, 2
The Qur’an
Notes from dialogues with Muslims
Chronology of Early Islam
Divisions within Islam
Issues and Answers
If the Quran is true, then Islam is false
Islam and the Crucifixion of Jesus
Methods Muslims use to attack Christianity
Comparison grid between Christianity and Islam doctrine
Comparison grid between Christianity and Islam doctrine–In Turkish
Is the God of Christianity and Islam the same God?
Does Islam teach salvation by works?
Questions for Muslims
More questions for Muslims
Differences between the Bible and the Qur’an
The Qu’ran (Koran) says the Bible is not corrupt
Has the New Testament been corrupted?
What did Jesus teach about the Old Testament?
Who has performed the greatest act of love, Yahweh or Allah?
Jihad: holy struggle or holy war?
Is the Trinity possible?
How holy is the God of Islam? video
How just is the God of Islam?
Islam, the religion of peace, and terrorism
A Comparison between Jesus and Muhammad video
Is the God of Christianity and the God of Islam the same?
What does Islam and the Quran say about Jesus?
Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?
Do Christians, Muslims and Jews worship the same God?
The difference between instructions to treat non-Christians and non-Muslims
What is Ramadan?
Can a muslim be the president of the United States?
Is Islam a Christian heresy?
Muhammed and the Bible
Does Deuteronomy 18:15-18 predict the coming of Muhammad?
Does Deuteronomy 33:2 predict the coming of Muhammad?
Does Deuteronomy 34:10 predict the coming of Muhammad?
Does Psalm 45:3-5 predict the coming of Muhammad?
Does Isaiah 21:7 predict the coming of Muhammad?
Does Habakkuk 3:3 predict the coming of Muhammad?
Does John 14:16 predict the coming of Muhammad?
Responses to attempted rebuttals
Response to rebuttal to Matt Slick’s Questions for Muslim’s article
Response to rebuttal to Matt Slick’s More questions for Muslim’s article
Response to rebuttal to Matt Slick’s More questions for Muslim’s article, pt 2
The Qur’an
Contradictions in the Qur’an
Interesting Quotes from the Qur’an
Interesting quotes from the Qur’an about women
The Qur’an: Problems
The Qur’an and the formation of sperm error
The Hadith
The Hadith
Interesting Quotes from the Hadith, part 1
Interesting Quotes from the Hadith, part 2
Interesting quotes from the Hadith about forgiveness
Interesting quotes from the Hadith about Jesus
Interesting quotes from the Hadith about Jihad
Interesting quotes from the Hadith about Muhammad
Interesting quotes from the Hadith about Satan
Background Information for Answering Objections
The Trinity
Jesus’ humbled state and what it means
Verses showing the plurality of God in the Old and New Testaments
Has the New Testament been corrupted?
What did Jesus teach about the Old Testament?
Objections Answered about the Trinity
The Trinity makes no sense. It is illogical.
Objections Answered about Jesus
Did Jesus ever say the exact words, “I am God”?
If Jesus is called the Son of God, do you think that makes Him God?
Jesus cannot be the Son of God.
If Jesus is God, to whom did He pray?
God cannot be tempted. Jesus was tempted. Jesus cannot be God.
God is infinite. Matter is finite. God could not become a man.
Why is it necessary for God to die for our sins?
Questions from a Muslim about Jesus being God
The Bible is false (and Jesus is not God) because Jesus obeyed Satan
If Jesus is God, then why did not know the time of His return?
If Jesus is God, why did He say the Father was greater than He?
Objections Answered about Jesus’ Crucifixion and Resurrection
Islam and the Crucifixion of Jesus
Is the Easter Story of Jesus’ Resurrection True?
Does Matthew 26:38-39 deny the Crucifixion of Jesus?
Does Hebrews 5:7 deny the Crucifixion of Jesus?
Dialogues With Muslims
Can the Muslim do enough good works to go to paradise?
Which is true, the Bible or the Qur’an? part 1
Which is true, the Bible or the Qur’an? part 2
A Muslim makes a threat.
A Muslim and the gospel
Is there any evidence for Islam being true?
A Muslim denies Jesus and plays word games
Leaving Islam
Journey as a Muslim – Al-Gharib’s Story
Islam and the News
Placating Ishmael
Additional Resources on the Net
Investigate Islam – A lot of very interesting information.
Answering Islam – An excellent Christian resource
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com – You gotta see this!
Debates
Debate: Matt Slick vs Shadid Lewis, Is Jesus the God man?
Debate: Matt Slick vs Shadid Lewis, Why did we choose to accept or reject Islam?
Debate: Matt Slick vs Shadid Lewis, Why did we choose to accept or reject Christianity?
Go to the Islam Discussion Board on CARM
@ David Aloua, Do you believe that persons living a homosexual or bisexual lifestyle, regardless of whether or not they attend any church, are pleasing to God?
Please provide ONE scripture reference that tells us we are to condemn others.
Well give you that scripture once you give us one scripture that teaches it is okay for Christians to exploit Gods grace to live lawless, unrepentant, lives.
And while you’re try to find that scripture, think about this – Jesus commends those who judge rightly
John 7:24 “Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”
Unfortunately those who support these false teachers love to throw around Matthew 7:1 “Judge not, that you be not judged.” And like their adored false teachers, it’s yet another scripture cherry-picked out of context. Let’s put it back in context:
Matthew 7:1-6 ” “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.”
Tell us Kevin, how do you discern who the “dogs” and “pigs” and “false prophets” are? Jesus is allowing us to tell right from wrong by making that judgment call on whether someone’s doctrine is sound or not.
By throwing discernment out with the bathwater, you lose the ability to identify sin, that sin being what God himself clearly defines as sin.
Andy Stanley have turned aside from the truth and has been made “shipwreck of the faith” by using the word of God to misrepresent its meaning.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“I bet your arse you ain’t no perfect follower!”
“Who are you to say?”
Followers of Jesus are instructed by many Bible verses to defend the faith.
There is no condition stating Churchwatcher must reach some level of ‘sinless perfection’ to defend the faith.
What is implied however, is that one should first be doctrinally sound themselves (mature in their understanding of the Word) to be able to defend the faith.
“I hope your wisdom and experience in service to our faith covers a lot more than setting up web pages to persecute people”
David,
Speaking of persecution, apparently you have never read any stories about ISIS.
Anyhow, since you consider this sort of webpage as ‘persecution’, here’s some advice.
Don’t ever read Galatians 2, or Jude 1, or Ephesians 5, or 1 John 2, or 2 Thessalonians 2. Those might be a bit harsh and they may hurt your sensitive feelings.
Bro what does that say for the rest of Andy Stanley’s teachings there’s a lot of podcasts man. Can it not be trusted?
Would you look through a thorn bush expecting to find figs?
Cmon bro not the time for beating around the bush. Be straight up I’m trying to hear what your saying. I’ve heard a lot of podcasts from Andy Stanley, Shane Willard, TD Jaques, Sam Monk, there’s so much material on there. Relationship building. Being right in our own eyes. Family. Children. Breathing room. Can’t even ist them all. All of them which are so useful to our modern day. They all seem to match up. I failed to see how you see it though. It doesn’t match up in my mind. If Andy Stanley is starting to pull dodgy sermons now. Then we can not trust his teachings. And we can not trust him am I correct? All the souls that have come to know Jesus from him what does that say for them? Or is this a case where he’s been fine up until now that the enemy may have crept in and deceived us all???
We don’t allow private emails published in comments.
About time someone else sees what Hillsong is doing. Yes hillsong…..churchwatcher….why did Jesus come to Earth, and why did he say the most important of all laws is we must love the Lord your God, and everyone else? As far as Andy Stanley allowing homosexuality in the church. You have got to be kidding me. No one is perfect. You have Sunday School teachers that lie. Is lying not a sin, and we still allow the straight sinner to lead? I don’t get it. I don’t get your frame of thinking at all. How is anyone going to come to Christ if they are not included? We have learned through the teachings of the disciples that you don’t just give your life to Christ and change habits immediately. For some it is a working and growing out of the sin process. The thought that you change immediately is what is killing the body of Christ. Christians like you and your sermons!
David,
“For God so LOVED the world that he gave his only begotten son. That whoever BELIEVES in him should not perish but have everlasting life. I forgot where it’s from please enlighten me.”
That’s John 3:16, which is a favorite for Christians to hold up on signs at american football games. You see it often on tv during games.
Also, 2 Corinthians explains why it’s so hard to break through to someone like the person you’re talking to. 2 corinthians 4:4
“In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.”
You are a sad person. Andy is completely biblical in his teachings and I have followed him for years. You are dissecting his statements and twisting them to say what he does not. Good luck.
We are past the whole Andy Stanley thing bud well I sure am, I don’t know about you. Merry Christmas to you and your family from Australia my friend
A number of valid points, but unfortunately, they are not Biblical or based on Biblical doctrine.
Here’s why:
1.) How does a prostitute find herself favoured in God’s eyes and is included in the bloodline of Jesus?
2.) At what point, while Jesus was walking on the earth did people find salvation? (We know and understand what the ‘Christian church’ was founded on the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus.)
3.) At what point did the Apostles become ‘Christians’ ? The Bible clearly tells us that they never recognized Jesus when He appeared to the or they failed to understand exactly what He was teaching and the meaning, implication or application of His teaching.)
4.) Jesus ALWAYS Healed people FIRST and on few occasions told them to go and sin no more. He asked nothing from them, except that they have a desire to be healed, made well or believed.
Another point raised by the ignorant is the fact that the plural for sin, being sins is never mentioned in the Bible. It has crept into a few translations.
The only sin, the one thing that the Jews and the Pharisees and the Sadducees missed, was the fact that Jesus was the son of God and therefore the Messiah that they had read about and were waiting for.
“Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” Translated from the original: be careful of the single cell fungus of the Pharisees and Sadducees’. Matthew 16 v 6. The term YEAST had not even evolved yet and should not be included in the translation because it plays into the hands of those that believe in the Temple Model..
Why did Jesus feed 5 000 men in order to illustrate the dangerous teaching of the Pharisees and the Sadducees? Matthew 14 v 13 to 21.
Because they had missed 1 thing in the Old Testament. They had missed a SINGLE thing in the Old Testament. The one thing / the single thing that they had missed was that the whole Old Testament pointed to Jesus Christ as the Messiah.
REMEMBER: The modern day Church constructed under the Holy Roman Empire was built, constructed and used as a method of control, order and for collecting taxes.
It is abundantly from the comments that clear that many of the comments contain very little substance, Biblical or historical and are mere regurgitation of what you think you understand without self study or revelation.
Paul
Paul, so u r a big fan of andy stanley??
Hi Smoky, no I’m not a fan at all. In fact everything I have said is found with the Scriptures and engraved in History.
Nothing I have said is attributed to Andy Stanley or any vicar, preacher or pastor but found exclusively engrained in Scripture and History. I have just spent the past 40 years of my life living by GRACE and not by GUILT.
I wonder where @Christians’ get off criticizing other Christians ? Definitely NOT Biblical, therefore taught out of FEAR !
wow 40 yrs. Do you think heretics should be teaching the Bible??
Those answers can all be answered via:
1. reading the whole bible passages *in context*
2. decent bible commentaries and sermon transcripts e.g. preceptaustin dot org
3. listening to relevant sermons e.g. sermonaudio dot com
4. visiting Christian apologetics websites e.g. apologetics315 dot com
Several examples, :
Rahab and other people who had saving faith from OLD Testament – visit Hebrews chapter 11 and look for relevant verse
yeast – another word for leaven, first mentioned in SECOND book of OT: see Exodus chapter 12 (as above)
No mention of Pharisees being exposed as *reason* for feeding 5000+ people in Matthew chapter 14, Mark chapter 8, Luke chapter 9 or John chapter 6.
A simple search for word “Pharisees” (New Testament) or “leaven” (NT) will show the real reason.
One verse shows the Pharisees’ true problem:
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
People determined not to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ should be the ones in fear:
BIBLE Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
REVERSE: there IS condemnation to them which are NOT in Christ Jesus, who walk NOT according to the Spirit, but after the flesh.
It is between you and God whether the BIBLE Roman 8:1 or the REVERSE applies to your eternal destiny.
Sorry didn’t really read any of the questions and answers. More important subject tho what is your view on terrorist group ISIS? Man I seen this documentary about them training children as soldiers! To kill there parents and non Believers etc. in the name of God! Disgraceful I say but where and what does this mean? I’m sure the word must talk about this possibly revelations. Many educated people on here maybe we can get some more important information/advice about dealing with the modern 2016 world and the sort of condition the world is today. Our faith must grow if we are to make any difference. What are we as a body doing for the world today? Peace and love to you all that see this. May our lord Jesus Christ bless you and your families and ace the unsaved in your worlds
There are lots of Christian forums and ex-Islam forums that would be great places to discuss that subject.
Probably the best person I know who deals with Christian apologetics and Islam is Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. http://www.aomin.org
Youtube also has lots of footage of debates he’s had with Muslim leaders in the past.
Dr. White has explained it is wise to be careful not to lump all Muslims together. He certainly doesn’t make excuses for them like politically correct “lefties” do though!
Different Islam sects differ on minor doctrines just like many mainstream Christian denominations. Groups like ISIS are the other end of the spectrum to the cultural Muslim (outer appearances only). The more literally the Muslim takes Islamic texts the more fundamentalist the Muslim will get (especially the later texts when Muhammad gave up trying to become a peacemaker and became a warrior).
Wow that is freaky. I lived with a famous sportsman who was a Muslim for 3 years. I knew what I believed but I wasn’t strong and heard a lot of there cases etc. when I left o went to equippers church in New Zealand and man I’ve learnt a lot in the last couple of years. Nothing of an educated level but I myself have been reconnected or strengthened in my relationship with Jesus. I must grow still and be baptised as a man in my own free will. My family and I are at Melbourne Hillsong and really enjoying it. Peace and love to you thank you for your answers
Dear David,
Thank you so much for your email and my apologies for the delay in responding.
In regards to your enquiry, Pastor Brian prayerfully considers the speakers and artists that he continually invites to the platform and we very much enjoyed having Ps Andy Stanley at Hillsong Conference a few years ago. Please know that Ps Andy is a great friend of Hillsong Church. He is a significant leader who has a positive influence on thousands of people globally where many lives are radically changed for the good.
Also, I just wanted to make sure you were aware that the link you sent below is not affiliated with Hillsong Church and the only blog that we run is http://www.hillsong.com/collected.
I hope that helps and please don’t hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions.
Kindest regards,
Ellie McGregor
Pastor Brian Houston’s Office
Hillsong Church
—–Original Message—–
From: David Aloua [mailto:deealoua@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 22 January 2016 8:11 PM
To: Brian Houston.com>; Ps Brian & Bobbie’s
Subject: The dangerous new teachings of Andy Stanley. | Hillsong Church Watch
Hey guys,
I have been following this forum about how Pastor Andy Stanley’s teachings are misguiding and untrustworthy. This forum represents Pastor Brian Houston as his image headlines the home page. I am part of Hillsong Melbourne west and love to hear Ps Brian speak and love his teachings . I also enjoy Andy Stanley and have listened to Andy for a good amount of time now and think he has great messages to share also. I am unsure what it all means tho the people running the forum obviously are very educated and i believe it’s good to keep an eye on mainstream preachers with huge influence. Does Brian or his team support this and is it true we should stop listening to Andy Stanley?
Kind regards
David Aloua
0421 *** ****
https://hillsongchurchwatch.com/2015/02/20/the-dangerous-new-teachings-of-andy-stanley/?replytocom=26022#respond
Frm David Aloua
Honestly that email is worthy of extensive analysis by the blogger/s!!! Classic word games and distraction tactics there.
“Pastor Brian prayerfully considers…. ” If he does pray to the Christian God, why are false teachers still welcome at Hillsong? It is the Age of the Internet after all. Beliefs about the Christian God are non-negotiable e.g. Hillsong welcomed T.D.Jakes (does not believe in the Trinity, Google modalism)
Does he consult his bible at all in the process?
“Enjoyed having Stanley”: that should be of secondary importance. Enjoyment should not be top priority, TRUTH should be top priority always.
“A great friend of Hillsong”: distraction tactic from your question “can Stanley be trusted?” What’s that got to do with it? Truth and trust outranks Loyalty. Unquestioning loyalty is not a virtue. You should have loyalty for your own friends and family, not a stranger you’ve been told can be trusted “because they’re my friend”
Significant leader… positive influence globally…… and so have CEOs and managing directors of any major company; major difference is they don’t claim to be working to build the Kingdom of God etc.
That “answer” you’ve been given by that spokesman deserves air quotes because it is full of hot air and nothing else. He is counting on you not analysing the probably standard response to multiple queries like yours.
Haha. I was wondering how you were going to reply to that. It’s like there is a spirit upon you . Like something other than the Holy Spirit. You have all the answers on the keyboard but what you say about someone else says more about you. Always got an answer. Even for a direct email . I geuss I’ll have to go further down the rabbit hole and make more enquiries about this. Your way of going about all of this ain’t the spirit of Christ or spirit of love. Maybe you have become twisted over the years and jealousy has struck you. I dont know. I don’t really care to be honest. Your just another keyboard warrior or keyboard preacher who ain’t doing jack for the world other than moan about other preachers and look for faults in them. God bless your soul sir, and all your worldly educated answers. Where’s your faith bro? You know Andy will pay the price 1 day if he is deceiving people here on earth for other gains. have a look at yourself first before condemning other people bro. You ain’t got it all together. Even though you know so much about theology etc. your still put your opinions above everyone else’s. Which tells me you think your more important than everyone else. Is that the spirit of Christ? Not the Christ I know.
David, They aren’t his opinions, they are verifiable facts. Please David, do you research and do not follow blindly. We as Christians can judge others who call themselves Christians and call them to repentance in Christ. Who we can not judge are those in the world who do not know better. Jesus was talking on the mount in Matthew 7 when he said what he said. Christians And Judging
(From Christianissues.biz):
Many Christians misinterpret what the Bible says about judging and say that we should never judge. In Matthew 7:1-5, Jesus did say not to judge. However, a close look at these verses will show that He is referring to hypocritical judging and He went on to say that when a hypocrite cleans up his own life then he will be fit to judge another. Of course, it is always wrong to make judgments about a person’s motives or thoughts because we don’t know their mind. In John 7:24, Jesus said, “Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment.” In this verse Jesus is talking about making righteous judgments in regard to God’s laws. We must make judgments in matters of biblical doctrine and righteous living. The Bible is our foundation and if we don’t discern and follow what God says then it will become just another book. Then everyone will be doing whatever they think is right, just like the Israelis did in the time of the Judges. Judges 21:25 says, “In those days Israel had no king; everyone did as he saw fit”.
Please read Matthew 5 – 7 in its entirety and you will see the full meaning. Context is Key my friend.
“have a look at yourself first before condemning other people bro.”
You have proven you don’t have a good understanding of the Scriptures David. It has shown in nearly every one of your posts on this page. All you do is play mind games using human arguments and beating the same old misinterpretation of “Do not judge” again and again and again. No Scripture exegesis. No correct application. Just silliness.
David your response is reflex emotional defences against the truth that you currently don’t want to read. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth (John 14:16-17), not entertainment, not groupthink, not feelings.
So many Hillsongees have accused other Hillsong critics also of ulterior motives (e.g.jealousy) like you have just done. Are you able to respond to the content of what I have typed, using rational reasoning processes instead of resorting to name-calling?
Oh mate cry me a river. You didn’t like that one ay? False advertising bro got Brian Houstons head up on your front page but repping what you say and think. Why don’t you put your own face on the main page ? Why you have to hide behind a well known figure? Great preacher? If you were such a great preacher then why haven’t we ever heard of you? All we know of you is your great knowledge but no one knows you? Meaningless life we live bro. Meaningless discussions. Let Andy Stanley go and keep on leading people to Christ. I’ve heard some of his recent sermons you can’t really say that they are leading to someone being a democrat or republican etc etc. your argument I’m not arguing the same as you? My argument comes from a different place to yours? See bro you think you go to the toilet and it doesn’t stink? We all go to the toilet the same way bro don’t forget that
Interesting, reading observations of others, and note the blocked YouTube footage, darkness hates being exposed to light.
http://timothyjhammons.com/2015/07/21/andy-stanley-false-teacher-status-once-again/
Not my website, therefore N/A.
Sis, not bro, therefore not my job to preach, build churches etc.
Again, you did not attempt to answer what I had typed. Are you going to continue to react using emotions not rational thinking processes – YES or NO?
“Again, you did not attempt to answer what I had typed. Are you going to continue to react using emotions not rational thinking processes – YES or NO?”
David can’t answer any questions from anyone because HE DOESN’T KNOW ANYTHING.
@ Paul, You are advocating that there are no consequences for sin.
But the Bible makes it abundantly clear you shall reap what you sow.
You’re condoning Brian Houston & the Hillsong Gang. They LOVE foolish ignorant Christians like you, because it is YOUR TYPE that allows them to continue getting away with anything they want. 40 Years a Christian? SHAME ON YOU for not knowing better.
Settle down mate with the shame on you on all the rest of it. Everyone got an opinion.
David (and Fred) – any consistent reading of comments would prove that we have blocked others for their lack of “kindness’ towards others commenting here. Annette being one just recently. She was warned a few times and has now lost commenting privileges.
If stating biblical truths is seen as “unkindness”, perhaps a deeper bible study and a look at Martin Luther’s hilarious insult generator will brighten your day
http://ergofabulous.org/luther/
Hey guys. I have just recieved a reply from Pastor Brian Houstons team at Hillsong Sydney. I sent them the link etc and wanted to know how they truly felt about this all. Mr Churchwater it seems you are falsely advertising this forum or this website using Pastor Brian’s image and the Hillsong brand. I will post my email and the reply I recieved.
Peace and love to you Mr Churchwater and co
David, RE this comment: ” It’s like there is a spirit upon you . Like something other than the Holy Spirit.”
I had not thought of the word Groupthink for quite a while but used in one of my responses to you.
I’ve just discovered an article while surfing internet. I hadn’t visited the Herescope blog for a while but remembered it when thinking of another topic. I tried to remember which time period it was, perhaps 2014? Random click – July 2014. Top article “The Peer Driven Church”.
……For example, peer-driven can resemble a phenomena called “Groupthink”:
Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people, in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints, by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences…..
I am making an educated guess here:
because I used that term in an entry that was not supportive of Hillsong, you will say it was Satan who implanted that word in my mind, and Satan who led me to the Herescope blog etc., not the Holy Spirit, is that right?
David, RE this comment: ” It’s like there is a spirit upon you . Like something other than the Holy Spirit.”
Yet “David” says WE are not supposed to judge. That’s “David” the hypocrite.
100% bro I am still battling my demons. God bless you man. Christians have a reputation for being Hippocrates etc and the attitude of they are wrong in right has kept so kept so many non believers from even having a chance to believe in Jesus.
We’ve allowed David’s comment above through moderation because this is the only one that doesn’t contain obscenity or profanity. The previous 3-4 comments were too obscene to be allowed. To then say “God bless you man” is the height of Hippocrates (hypocrisy), don’t you think David?
Yea bro I take full responsibility man I’m sorry for using that sort of language on here. Not the place for it
David, you say “…I’m sorry for using that sort of language on here. Not the place for it”
That sort of language shouldn’t have a place anywhere in a Christian’s life. Just an observation.
Yea your right bro. I have a foul mouth built in from a young age. There is no excuse and I’m first to say I don’t live a perfect life. This forum isn’t for me, do you guys have different forums that encourage and build for people to communicate with each other? This sort of place isn’t really something that brings the best out of me. Only brings the crap as you can see just because of different opinions.
David – you’re welcome to stay and allow others, who have travelled down the same path as you, share their testimonies of God’s grace ( and why they find sites like this help them grow in Christ).
Proverbs 27:17 “As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.”
The phrase “iron sharpens iron” is found in Proverbs 27:17: “As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.” There is mutual benefit in the rubbing of two iron blades together; the edges become sharper, making the knives more efficient in their task to cut and slice. Likewise, the Word of God is a “double-edged sword” (Hebrews 4:12), and it is with this that we are to sharpen one another—in times of meeting, fellowship, or any other interaction.
The proverb also indicates the need for constant fellowship with one another. Man was not made to be alone, for did not the Lord God say this, even before the Fall (Genesis 2:18)? How much more, then, after the Fall of Man, do we need to come together with our brothers and sisters in Christ for seasons of fellowship and prayer? Clearly, this was recognized by the saints of the early church (Acts 2:42–47), who “devoted themselves” to teaching, fellowship, communion, and prayer, all corporate activities that provided opportunities for sharpening one another.
There are two points to make about the above proverb. First, the meeting of two together in the Lord’s name will always guarantee blessing. It is a means of grace that the Lord Himself promised—where two or more are gathered in His name, there He is among them (Matthew 18:20). Also, we see a similar meaning in Malachi, for those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard (Malachi 3:16). When we sharpen one another in real Christian fellowship, the Lord bends an ear from heaven and is pleased. Not one word about Him which brings Him glory escapes His notice.
The fragrances of divine unity are best sensed in the relationship of David and Jonathan, son of Saul. When David was being hotly pursued by Saul, Jonathan sought David out “to help him find strength in God” (1 Samuel 23:16), which leads us onto our second point. Iron sharpening iron is an opportunity to fulfill the Law of Christ. The apostle Paul says that we are to carry and share the issues and burdens that we face daily, to lament over personal sin, advise on how best to repent of it, and rejoice over the conquest of it. This is the same “royal law” mentioned in James 2:8, where we are exhorted to love one another.
Returning to the analogy, if a knife is blunt, it still continues to be a knife, although it is less effective, less useful in service. Let us therefore be encouraged to spend more time together, exhorting, encouraging, praying, admonishing, sharing God’s Word, praying over God’s Word and the needs of our local church, that we become sharper, more cutting in the ministry that the Lord has assigned to each of us. Too often what passes as fellowship in the modern church is centered on food and fun, not on sharpening one another with the Word of God. In far too many instances, the only knives being sharpened are the ones used at potlucks.
Finally, a knife that has been sharpened will also shine more because all the dullness has been rubbed off its surface. Likewise, we will shine better for our Lord if we do the things mentioned above consistently, all of which will unite us in harmony. “How good and pleasant it is when brothers live together in unity” (Psalm 133:1). Therefore, as the author to the Hebrews says, “And let us consider how we may spur one another on towards love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching” (Hebrews 10:24–25). http://www.gotquestions.org/iron-sharpens-iron.html
Mr Churchwater this is really great this piece you have written. I have copy and pasted for me to keep in notes. The iron sharpen iron proverb is one of my favourite and also I use it in a physical Sense as I am a professional fighter so I know the truth behind 1 man sharpens another. We need to practice fighting better opponents so then we get better ourselves. Now I see I need to do this in my spiritual life so then that area can grow. Funny the timing of all this as one of my prayers that have come to me very recently is that God would lead me to put Jesus at the centre of my life. ( heard it at my brother in laws wedding) I just don’t know how to but I know I will be shown . I found that being in the fight game as long as I have I am drawn to rely on my physical ability to hurt people or how much I can take punishment from opponents is partly where my confidence lies. But I realised not long ago that I will grow old one day and what happens when your too old to fight then what. I think the birth of my son has helped Spurr this also. Thanks for this comment I will look into your link also you left.
Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, HATRED, variance, emulations, WRATH, STRIFE, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, TEMPERANCE [or SELF CONTROl] : against such there is no law.
True temperance is God-given. All Christians have weaknesses in their flesh; even the apostle Paul did. See Romans Chapter 7, note verses 17 -20 especially.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+7&version=KJV
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Confess your sins, accept His forgiveness and continue to pray for God to strengthen you in this area whenever you realise you have sinned/ have certain weaknesses. All Christians throughout their lives – whether babes-in-Christ or extremely spiritually mature- need to continue to turn to God for the strength to overcome the flesh.
Cheers bro. I must remember not to look for sympathy but strengthening and then strengthen our brothers and sisters when I am able first I must be strengthened. One more thing Mr Churchwater. I have been saved since I was about 11 years old. On my own accord. I them went to boarding school and mother baptised me in our baptist church as it was a requirement. I was still aware of what I was doing and was all for the real reason. Later in my mid teens I was kicked out of school ended up with dad and step mum and was baptised in Mormon church which at the time was all good. Now I am a man a husband and a father And know my faith and now at Hillsong Melbourne. I have been thinking to get baptised once and for all. As I still battle with old ways. I am still drawn to listen to the music I was bought up with 2pac, biggie, mobb deep, Big L, Big Punisher etc etc. mainstream call it real hip hop old school hip hop and all the rest of it. It’s a load of crap it’s toxic as lyrics and demeanour. Lots of the people unjust listed were shot dead in the 90’s it just seems engrained in me. Also tho the last few years I have gotten into the worship music and I know there is nothing like it. A music that can draw the Holy Spirit is crazy man I really never thought there was such a thing. But it only came to me last year because of what I have been learning that that is why we worship. And that we can recieve his presence and feel him there! Goosebumps warm and all that. That’s crazy bro . So then now I’m stuck between what I’ve always known and what I still enjoy. Then now I have realised this new unbelievable happening that Holy Spirit would come to us only if we truly in our heart surrender and I don’t know, I geuss when we surrender the rest follows. Anyway do you think I should be baptised again in Hillsong? Ot was my 1st baptism sufficient and I need to suck it up and keep on battling to kill them old habits. I’m sober etc no drugs smoke or drink for a few years now. That music tho they love rapping about it all coz that’s the life it’s from. 1st world problems haha.
Thanks again for these 2 comments
“This forum isn’t for me, do you guys have different forums that encourage and build for people to communicate with each other? This sort of place isn’t really something that brings the best out of me. Only brings the crap as you can see just because of different opinions.”
I appreciate the moments such as this where David shows humility and takes responsibility for his own actions. So it is possible maybe this forum is for you David. Just sayin’ don’t rule it out yet.
Yea bro 100%. I want to always be improving my faith. I’ve come a long way but what a waste if I stop now. I want to see my family saved also. Hopefully they’ll be able to see the work of Christ in me 1 day
“I want to see my family saved also. Hopefully they’ll be able to see the work of Christ in me 1 day”
Something manyof us are workin’ on. But one of my brothers is a hardcase, he doesn’t care to listen these days but i’m hopin’ maybe someday he will
Yea man such a common issue but yet so important for all of us. I pray your brother may Gods greatness through you in Jesus name
David, I pray the same for you. And I’ll be keepin’ you in my prayers. Thank you bro.
Thanks bro
David, have you learned about spiritual armor yet? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%206:10-20
Good introductory article: http://www.gotquestions.org/full-armor-of-God.html
BTW I also have no Christian relatives, including husband. The outwardly successful people like my relatives see no need for a god/gods/ God. One of the reasons I have had to learn to defend the faith, to myself especially. “The wisdom of the world” is embraced and held very close to the hearts of the “worldly wise”.
Music can be a good tool but don’t make the mistake I did and think that it is a substitute for the Bible – it is the Word of God, not spiritual songs, hymns etc.
Decent Christian music helped my wounded heart in the short-term when I was a baby Christian especially but only the Bible (and decent sermons) changed my thinking permanently i.e renewed my mind (Romans 12:2).
Nice. 100% man. My uncle drilled me from young read the word even if it’s 1 sentence every day! I only started when I was 18 and broken. But now I can not go without it in my life. Now understand about the iron sharpens iron principle. as I have come across it in worldly things like freestyle rapping, boxing. I do have a brother in law who I really look up to as he’s younger but he’s really taken his faith seriously he works for equippers church in Auckland and the people around him also are amazing. We rub shoulders with 2 different types of people and over the years I’ve watched the effect it had had on his life. Praise God our lord and saviour Jesus
Here’s the “take away” for Andy and NP Ministires: Truth on the inside (you, me and the Holy Spirit), grace on the outside (those outside who might be turning to Christ). Reference Jesus’ two commandments, “Love God” and “Love one another” as He loved.
In a nutshell, God is with us to help (Hebrews 1:1). The Holy Spirit speaks the truth to all, but not all listen–that’s the HS’s thing–a peerless judge. The HS convicts and restores–we don’t–we supply grace to outsiders as the HS does this. Truth thrives in close relationships–this happens in small groups at NP, not public services. I can council and even chastise those I shepherd, but not those on the outside (see Paul on this).
At NP we (and Andy) are gracious in our ministries involving outsiders–we don’t place obstacles before outsiders, especially anyone who might be turning toward God. Peter, for the Jerusalem Council, wrote to Antioch, “It is my judgment therefore, that we should not make it difficult for those who are turning to God” Acts 16:19.
The context of Andy’s comments are important to understanding his sermons. If you want the tough stuff, join a small group.
I would suggest that dipping in and out of Andy’s sermons begs context and old adage, “You needed to be there” applies. As a NP member and volunteers, minister and retired missionary, I wish grace to the outsiders and truth to insiders.
Grace and Peace.
“I’m hoping and praying that some of you will take my words to heart and take action. I think you should stop giving your time to the churches of North Point Ministries. I think you should stop using your talents to advance the goals of the churches of North Point Ministries. I think you should stop giving your money to the churches of North Point Ministries. I think you’re being had and I think it needs to stop.”
http://pulpitandpen.org/2016/03/05/an-open-letter-to-the-members-of-north-point-ministries-churches/
“If it hadn’t been for my college years, where I found myself in one of those “small” churches, [you know, one of those with around 200 in attendance] I might have eventually quit altogether. If it wasn’t for one of those small churches that invested in me and my gifts, where people prayed for me, where I got to know most everyone by name, I might have left for good.
Since then, I’ve attended and served churches with average Sunday attendance from around 25 to 800, but never another megachurch. In fact, I’ve got a son of my own now, so you’ll have to forgive me for being selfish, but as long as I have a say in the matter, he’s going to be going to one of those smallish churches where he’ll know everyone, and everyone will know him. Maybe a medium-sized church. Maybe even a relatively large church.”
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/ponderanew/2016/03/03/dont-take-your-kids-to-a-megachurch-an-open-letter-to-andy-stanley/
And here’s the biblical “take away” summed up so well by Philip Lee:
‘Loving your neighbor as you love yourself is Law, and the Law cannot save you unless you keep it perfectly from the day you’re born until the day you die. The problem? We’re all born dead in trespasses and sins and cannot keep the Law. We’re all guilty. So telling people it doesn’t matter what they believe as long as they love others is actually putting people back under the yoke of the Law.
Should we love God? Absolutely! Should we love our neighbors? Absolutely! But if we try to do so without being given new life by God’s grace through faith in the Jesus revealed to us in Scripture, we remain dead in our trespasses and sins and children of God’s wrath. There is no salvation without repentance and faith in the true Jesus.’
Cheers, Team Churchwatch.
I was recently exposed to the teachings of Andy Stanley. After about two months, it became immediately apparent that A. Stanley has an affinity to William Barclay of Barclay’s Commentaries. He has the same higher critical style (destructive criticism). The methodology of Barclay allows one to selectively choose which passages should dictate the meaning of the other Scripture. This is not a new methodology. It came about in the Nineteenth Century when BTW Andy Stanley’s theology was known as the Social Gospel. The two seemed to go hand in hand – higher critical interpretations and the Social Gospel.
I also noticed that “sacred being” was missing from his rather artificial construct called “the Temple Model.” This is the element that seems to be frequently absent in his discussions. He made an attempt to address the absence of a “vertical relationship” in his model of ministry. He pointed to the passage in Mt 25 – Sheep and the Goats, as a justification, from a vertical perspective of his horizontal outreach. I don’t think this is what his critics had in mind, nor did address the issue. It does provide an example of his selectivity when using one passage to dictate the meaning of others.
The two passages Stanley uses to support his horizontal perspective of the ministry Gal 5:6 and Mt 25 are examples of his either careless or higher critical interpretation of Scripture. Paul is talking about justification in Gal 5:6 not his ministry style when saying “the only thing that matters is faith expressing itself through love.” The emphasis is on faith, not love. Faith is expressed in many ways, not just love. IT is expressed in holiness, peace, joy, etc. Unless Paul is saying one is justified through love, not faith, Stanley is off track here.
Matthew 25 is hardly a passage upon which to base a major tenet of theology. It is not clear if this passage is a parable or a peek into the future. The language is highly symbolic. And the sheep seem completely unaware of the actions for which they are rewarded. One thing for sure is that it cannot be taken literally. The thief on the cross did not feed, clothe, care or visit anyone. Also, we already know where Matthew’s Gospel draws the line between those who are in the kingdom and those who are not – those who make the “Christological confession.” Those who through the spirit confess Christ as the son of the living God.
Stanley’s handling of the Scripture for someone in his position, is troubling.
I have been attending a sister church of NorthPointe since early February. I began noticing after attending a few small group sessions that Andy Stanley is the sole source for teaching. They use his books for Bible study and alternate with a video every other week. I noticed in the first study that Stanley’s method for studying the Bible is dependent on William Barclay. It is a higher critical (some may say destructive criticism) which allows one to be selective about which passages dictate the meaning of others. You may have heard of Barclay’s Commentaries. What most people do not know is that William Barclay denied that Jesus was the son of God and carried that belief until his death in 1978. Why would someone spend his entire life studying a book, the major tenet of which, he did not believe?
Nevertheless, higher or destructive criticism arose at the turn of the Nineteenth Century as did another of Stanley’s fascinations – the Social Gospel. Stanley’s view of the church is identical to the 19th Century version. This is not so unusual because the critical methodology of the Bible and Social Gospel Progressivism go hand in hand.
In the material to which I was exposed Stanley used two passages to support his teaching. Galatians 5:6 and Mt. 25. Gal 5:6 says that “the only thing that matters is faith expressing itself through love.” This passage is taken out of context by Stanley to get the meaning that he requires. He uses it to support that Christ’s mission had value only in that it produced some human benefit. Thus, love is the only thing that matters. The passage does not mean this in the context that Paul made the comment. Paul was talking about that which justifies believers. It is not the works of the law, but faith. Faith is the operative word in this phrase not love. Love is only one expression of faith. Others include holiness, joy, peace, etc.
The Matthew passage is not a good choice on which to base a major tenet of theology. Why? Because it is not known if this is a parable or a peek at the future. The language is highly symbolic. The people being rewarded are unaware of the reason they are being rewarded. It does not seem to be intended as literal. For instance, the thief on the cross did not feed, clothe, visit or care for anyone. Yet Christ said this day you shall be with me in paradise. In addition, we already know what the writer of Matthew believes about those who will make it to the heavenly kingdom. Those who confess by the Spirit of God that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God will enter. Stanley makes no mention of this. The passages do not support Stanley’s view that the whole of Jesus’s ministry can be summed up by the phrase – “love your neighbor.”