Why did I join a mega church in the first place is maybe a good place to start this saga.
MY BACKGROUND
I was raised in a Christian home with the whole church culture of Sunday school, Sunday night, Wednesday night, youth group, youth retreats and the whole nine yards. As I rolled into my 20s with loads of energy which I poured into work and travel, it always nagged at me that I should be plugged into a good church. I saw the bad effects of always being on the go and not putting any real time into having a church family, godly people to encourage and challenge me in my walk of faith.
MY NEED FOR A RELATIONSHIP WITH MY SAVIOUR
As I came to the end of my 20s I really hit a dead end. I realized I had been working my way to heaven and God’s grace had completely eluded me. I had become a sepulcher of dead works which I knew in Gods eyes were filthy rags. I was never going to “make it into the kingdom of God.” I faced that I had indeed been giving of my own strength and I was all done in.
Empty, with nothing more to give, I too needed a Savior. It was at this time that I realized I must prioritize God and my walk with Him and make changes in my work so I could really walk the talk. Not just talk the walk.
MY NEW CHURCH
And so it was at this time, spiritually on the rocks, that I stumbled in the doors of a mega church called City Church under the leadership of Oslo Christian Center. I sank gratefully into the comfortable, plush theater seats, sipping the coffee and chewing on the candy I had received at the door.
The young, hip, and very energetic pastor was preaching up a storm on the subject that all that we have is of Christ and for Christ.
Each Sunday the message sank in more and more. I had heard these truths all my life but it was as though I was hearing for the first time. There’s “hearing” and then there’s “hearing.” You know what I mean?
All the burden of striving for God and failing was lifted. I repented that I had been working my way to heaven. I really asked God to be Lord of my life and found the Scripture to be true…His yoke is easy and his burden is light.
So beyond a shadow of doubt the Lord used this preacher to really get through to me.
I was so happy to be saved and threw myself enthusiastically into volunteering on the cafe team and at the other church events. I was at this church about 1,5…2 years.
As we all know, success sells itself. It’s a big church and runs on a huge staff of volunteer and some paid staff.
As I settled into this church I had to think through all the reasons for going to this church and calling it home and backing that up with commitment like membership and tithing.
I had really found the joy of my salvation! It was all very exciting and fresh and new and I was positive about everything that my new-found journey of faith was taking me on! But I did not want to confuse my new-found joy of salvation with a body of people and church that I couldn’t go good for. Growing up 45 minutes from the mecca of charismatic mega stars of Tulsa, Oklahoma, I had plenty of cautious reserve.
MY BIBLICAL OBSERVATIONS
I began to read and dig into the word of God in a new way. I really liked the structure and order I saw in the church in the pages of the Bible. It seemed simple and more like a bigger scale of what family and home life should be. Church is like your extended spiritual family.
Contrasted with that, what I found in the mega type churches is that they are not conducive to older people. They talk about being a church for everyone. But I find older generations being a part of the church a total myth. They are non-existent. I remember seeing some older people come to the leadership conference and I felt they must have come because they were very loyal grandparents of some of the kids in leadership… I mean why ever else would they listen to a volume cranked up 100 times over their hearing aids!!?? I realized it was not a church my own grandfather would have felt comfortable in. The pumped up music and disco lights would have been very overwhelming for him.
Even I got exhausted with the loud concert setting music every single week! It becomes such a performance. There was no point to sing along because I couldn’t hear myself sing, much less the person beside me! Even the Christmas service was pumped up, without a single slow classic song that we associate with Christmas. I asked the band why they had cut even the one classic they had done last year and I was told because there was not time in the program. And I thought, well there would be time if they would cut all the endless advertizing for upcoming events and the tithing pep talk!!!
The lighting was often so dim I could hardly read my Bible. Most people brought their phones so that they could read the text glowing in the dark.
MY REALIZATION
I realized I could not seriously continue in this church long-term and call it home. My own home and personal standards were more conservative. Since I was in the ripe marriageable age of late 20’s, the thought crossed my mind…would I want to raise kids in this church? Certainly not in a church where there were no grandparents around! Even my parents age were old and outdated for the hip young church! I’m not either sure I would want to raise kids in a church that would prime them for the clubbing life! To go from the church scene to the club scene would not be a very far step! It’s funny because that is the whole image of the mega church….it’s meant to be so comfortable and such a low threshold that people can feel that they can step out of the club and into church with the same outfit on! I wonder if the leaders ever think of it from the other direction….that their kids will step from the church into the club on any given Sunday! In fact, I remember sometimes heading for the clubs with my Christian friends from youth group after Sunday night church!
I began to feel more and more that church should be a stark contrast from the world and what it offers. As a waitress, I work in dim light and listen to the world’s music every day. And I work in a decent chain hotel but they crank up the sexualized hip hop music at night.
Then I would head to church on Sundays and really feel that it was hardly a break from my workday. The praise and worship team would be up there jumping around like pop corn and trying to get us excited about praising Jesus. I found my mind wandering…noticing the praise leader had gotten new boots…..and thinking…o yeah, that’s right boots are on sale…I need a new spring pair! I mean seriously! It suddenly struck me why churches have had congregational singing. WE are as a church meant to praise the Lord. Not admire some worship band on stage as they channel our praise up to God!
One Sunday the young wife of a leading couple in the church who was the mother of two, preached the Sunday sermon. She was making the point that we must “Walk the talk.” Our kids follow what we do more then what we say. To illustrate, she said like telling your kids not to swear and then we swear ourselves when we are mad. She then flashed a huge picture on the screen that probably went viral on instagram of a 5 year old kid at a football game with his dad and they both have war paint on and are angrily flipping off the other team with both fingers in the air! It was a surprising picture and was of course shown for shock effect. Being a young crowd of people raised on pop culture and used to this sort of humor, we all roared with laughter! I couldn’t help feeling this picture may have been appropriate for a kinder-garten staff meeting…but at church???
What if I had had my 5-year-old godchild along that Sunday? I pictured the conversation with her after church…”I know all the adults were laughing…but it’s really not funny or OK to flip off other people when you’re mad. It’s not right and certainly not funny.” I mean, no matter what you said the kid would know there is a double standard. There is the standard for kids and then there is the “behind closed doors” double standard of the adults.
UNHOLY LAUGHTER
I noticed over time that laughing about things that were serious or should be holy was becoming a trend. It was almost becoming the normal ice breaker. One Sunday the guy getting up to do announcements joked about the book on stage….”Maybe it’s the Book Of Life…shall I open it and see if your names are in it?” We all roared with laughter. Another speaker visiting from New Zealand was whining about how the church folk never get tired about hearing about the cross.
“The cross, the cross, the cross.”
He made us sound like kids that want their dad to read their favorite bedtime story for the millionth time. He went on to say…”I wonder if Jesus had died of a machine gun or a rope would we hang that up in the church and keep talking about the machine gun or the rope?” To which we all roared!
My spirit felt sick and depressed. I started to get more and more uneasy for each Sunday that passed. To be honest, I quit going, and only came the Sundays I had cafe duty. And then I would always offer to be the one that sat out in the cafe during the service. My joy was really fading fast. I was getting restless and filled with anxiety. I can say it bothered me day and night.
The second Easter service that I was a part of was a total shock to me. They had a trapeze artist swing from silk scarves as the worship and praise team sang. It had a total circus feeling! I felt a great sense of relief that nobody I had invited had been able to come! I love the circus and I love church. But a combination?
A HILLSONG TAKEOVER?
The total clincher and reason I decided to quit was because the church became a member of the Hillsong family. I was already wondering if a mega church was anything to call home. I noticed that absolutely nobody noticed if I came or not to church. Nobody asked about my walk of faith. If I was looking for a spiritual family with accountability, I could forget it.
I began to think through even the cafe team that I served on. Our team leader was a very earnest Christian and really worked hard and always gave 100%. He was obviously one of the sought-after eligible bachelors in the church. There were a lot of women on the team and when I went to a get-together for the cafe team, I found it very awkward. I felt like we were on some Christian version of “The Bachelor!” I just wasn’t interested in going to church and events where we were all the same age and going through the same things. Church events felt like free dating events! It made church very stressful!
I ended up not going to the Christmas party for the cafe team. It turned out not one person missed me or asked why I hadn’t come! I realized they really hadn’t missed me. One less player in the competition! I had a real good laugh about it!
At another Christian event I served at, I saw a younger man that looked familiar. I asked him where I knew him from… he said church. But he said he had quit and found a new church, (also a church that had joined the family of Hillsong months before our church did), with a younger crowd because he was not ready to get married yet and he felt everyone at my church was in their mid 20’s to 30’s either getting married or married and
with kids. In other words, they were too old!
We had a good laugh over that! But I thought… wow, how stressful to go to a church where we are all going through the same stuff. Is this really normal? So I began to look at the culture of the church. What was missing? Where were the old people? Why did we laugh with no shame and joke about holy things? Because no grandparents were present to shake their heads? Why did our pastor apologize every time he came with a deep point in his message?
One time he literally told us we could pull out our phone and check the weather if we wanted while he made the next point. We all roared with laughter! What was so funny? That we were all idiots, victims of pop culture, who couldn’t handle anything deep? Was that seriously funny? I looked around at the audience lounging in our comfortable theater seats and began to feel we were pathetic. I felt if I joined a secular club we would treat the subject more seriously then this crowd treated Jesus their Redeemer. What was this new trend of dragging the Gospel and everything in the Bible into one big familiar joke?
It actually bothered me enough that I addressed the pastor in the foyer on the issue one Sunday. He was surprised and said it was of course an invitation to get people to join… and for people that are not use to the serious side to sit up. Of course he knows when he says “Pull out your phones,” people end up listening up. Basically I lack all sense of humor, apparently. He said he appreciated the feedback.
Sometimes I feel the pastors assume they are preaching to a group of hells angels! Like I stressed to the pastor, he is preaching in the capital of Norway, a country with one of the highest standards of living in the world. We are all university educated and for the one or two punks that walk in…well, they should be challenged to step up….why do we lower the standard?
MY RESEARCH INTO THE HILLSONG TAKEOVER
Well, the church joining Hillsong was the last straw for me. First of all, we idiots that couldn’t handle a deep point unless we can check the weather and Facebook halfway through… we were not asked what we thought. This huge and international decision was completely out of our hands. Only the top leaders discussed this. Then when they were sure it was a good idea, they announced the idea to the top leaders, like all the cell group leaders and other church leaders. They were informed a month before they were going to announce it to the church congregation as a whole. So this was the meeting with the leaders where they were open for feedback. But from what I understood, it wasn’t even voted on at that level. It was of course presented as a great idea with only benefits for us.
I then found out that our pastor had gone to Hillsong Bible school so then all the bricks began to fall into place. As I looked into the Hillsong movement I realized my pastor had gotten much of his inspiration for his church from Hillsong. Our pastors father, the senior and founder of the church, had studied at a big charismatic church in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
So after the son came back from Hillsong his father gave him the opportunity to start a church in down town Oslo. They rented a theater right down town Oslo…they are now in their third Theater (Vulkan Arena) since starting. Apparently doing church in a non church type setting like a local theater is a Hillsong trademark. It seams to be a running theme they have.
So in many ways we were all ready following a Hillsong type format which I had been blissfully unaware of until then. One year after our pastor became the senior pastor (when his father retired)… we joined the family of Hillsong. So of course it goes with out saying that now Hillsong pastors frequent their conferences. And we Norwegians go to all the Hillsong conferences here in Scandinavia as there is a Hillsong campus in Stockholm and Copenhagen. London is not too far away either! In fact Norway was the most represented country at Hillsong’s London summer conference 2014 the year we joined their family!
For me it was obvious that if I was going to go a long with our church joining Hillsong then I must look into Hillsong and see what they stand for. I must take personal responsibility to research into Hillsong myself. I’m old enough to know you don’t just trust your leaders word on any thing. So I began to really look into Hillsong and their pastors. All I really knew about Hillsong was that they were famous for their praise and worship music, which I found rather sentimental and shallow. I wasn’t a huge fan. And of course I knew that lots of Norwegians went to Hillsong Bible school. Norwegians have loads of money and with the highest standard of living in the world, who doesn’t feel the Lord calling them to Bible school in exotic Australia…and Sydney at that! I mean isn’t that somewhere near Bondi Beach? From ice cold snow slopes in Norway to warm surf waves…”the call” is not hard to follow!
But okay, it’s all very well to have some vague idea about Hillsong way off on some other continent. But now it was seriously going to invade our church! Hillsong pulls big crowds. In one Norwegian Christian newspaper called “Dagen,” the pastor of Intro, (the first church to join the family of Hillsong), was sharing how impressed he was with how people stood in line to get into Hillsong Church. God must be blessing it!
THE “FRUIT” CARD
Mega churches seem to love that verse about the fruit, “Ye shall know them by their fruit.” They seem to interpret fruit to be numbers. So no matter what concern you may have with a mega church they shoot you down with arrows about “the fruit”. They exclaim, “Look at the numbers! God is obviously blessing it! So many can’t be wrong. They are reaching the nations!”
Well, Hitler and some other famous dictators had fans and numbers and were “reaching the nations” with their message. People like rock stars pull crowds as well. I fail to see how this is such a great defense. It acts more like a sheepskin to hide their dishonesty.
Because when you look at the church on a micro level:
1.) Nobody noticed if I came to church or not, not even to the events for my own ministry team! And to be honest, I didn’t either notice if others came or not. One didn’t get to know people well enough to ask why they hadn’t come or was everything okay in their life or simply last week!!! Norwegians are reserved to begin with so it takes forever to get to know them anyway and in a mega church they really can hide away!
2.) All the joking about Holy things seriously made me feel unwell. It depressed and stressed me.
3.) We were all organs in a great machine called “the church” But over time I began to feel that my effort on the cafe team didn’t mean that much to anyone. People had to pay for the cakes and that bothered me how things cost. Like even the Christmas dinner people had to pay for. I did not get a church family feeling at all. When it all had to be so fancy and impressive. . .it all cost. Over time the disillusionment grew.
4.) To feel a part of the church one was meant to go to the cell group they assigned to you so you could “connect” with people. For me it just felt rather artificial and those five women or so at the cell group are not really people one met at church on Sunday anyway. It just was not filling the gap of making church feel like home. . .my spiritual family.
I noticed that what the church put time and money and effort into was the show and performance and all the creative stuff. Of course it cost a lot and took a lot of time… but gave me nothing.
THE HILLSONG CLONE AND DRONE?
The only thing I had left in that church was the pastors sermons which I still really appreciated. But mega pastors are busy people and when he was out of town he handed the pulpit over to the wife of the leading couple and I wasn’t sure if according to the biblical standard I agreed with women preachers. If she wasn’t speaking it was the other pastor of our other campus or a visiting pastor or of course the Hillsong pastors that got their turn in the pulpit. I didn’t always feel that they came with anything deep and felt more and more that Hillsong was not a deepening influence. I began to compare our church with Hillsong and realized we were really saying the same stuff. Our conferences looked a lot like they followed the Hillsong type blueprint. So it seemed to be that if one was a part of the family of Hillsong we really looked to them for inspiration. I found the Hillsong vision for 2015 less then inspiring. With their Christian version of a manifesto and their dangerous declaration I was truly alarmed.
Suffice it to say when I decided to leave the church was when they joined the Hillsong Family in the spring of 2014.
I debated for a long time in my heart and mind whether I would write to the pastor or not. I prayed as well and it turned around in my mind for about 5 or 6 months. But finally I did write him. I felt it was cowardly to leave without a note. I really felt I must give some feedback as well.
I was rather amused by my cafe team leaders response to my departure. When I told him for the past few months I had only been coming when I had cafe duty he had to admit he had noticed that; although he had at no point questioned or confronted me on that.
CONCLUSION
I had not heard one person even breathe that they questioned or opposed the church joining Hillsong. So I was left to conclude that I was alone in that criticism. In mega churches it is very important to always be positive and supportive of the leaders and their choice of focus and direction for the church. They say they are open for feedback and thoughts and ideas but I have never found the environment they cultivate conducive to that. They are just pushing polite phrases around. You either get on the same page or leave.
The cafe leader made the classic response that I should stick it out and rather be an influence and not just throw down my toys in the sand box and stomp off! Like how do we solve anything in the world if we leave the moment we don’t agree! I mean I get the argumentation and its very sweet to be so cliche and idealistic but I’m not so naive as to think I could have any influence. I may be blue eyed but I’m realistic. Any weight I would come with would be seen as fighting progress… standing on the wrong side of history. What is there to discus when your church has joined a huge mega church on the other side of the globe? It all gets so abstract.
What I don’t like with this mega church name branding is that the church loses it’s soul and original stamp of God on it. Instead of being “a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people” that God has called out… we end up becoming name brand Christians where we all talk the same language and we don’t call sin out. We just have conversations about it. We rock out every Sunday and push the older people aside in a desperate attempt to be “relevant” to the younger people. So we take our marching orders from pop culture, whatever the next “relevant” thing is to the young people. Because the next “relevant” thing is simply branded, “A new and fresh move of God”.
If you want to join the old people on the back pew putting the brakes on… you’ll be left out in the cold.
I really get this feeling they just tack the label “Jesus” to their hip life style, their humor, their clubbing party life, their music and entertainment style of it all got to be fast, easy, funny and attractive.
Once in a while they will let a heavy sett girl sing with the praise band or a nerd bass player just to convince us that they are NOT like the world where it’s all about the image. But we are hardly convinced!
Our christian church life becomes this larger than life machine that we all help to move around because we all want to be part of something great for God. We want to part of something successful and big, where God is really moving and obviously blessing. I mean, look at the numbers they pull in!
Oh well, numbers or not, progress or no, I still knew I could not keep growing in this environment. Of course I never got a response from the pastor, which just further proved the point. Why does anyone go to a mega-church where they will never be able to talk to the pastor? The pastor and leaders have their own inner circle. Very few others dare or see the point of even attempting to make contact with them.
Just thinking through that made me realize I was leaving the concept of mega-church never to return again. Who wants to be so far removed from your pastor and leaders at church, where you can go for fifty years and never get to know them? What is the big deal with a big, successful church? I realized it is the age-old, “Success sells itself.” We go to the shop where we see a lot of people. We want to go to the school that is popular and so on. But is church really meant to follow the world’s model?
Mega-churches try to present Jesus like a super-star, like we would love Him if we got a chance to know Him. So they beg the chance to present the Gospel in a new and fresh way at their church. Like give them a chance, and you will love being a Christian. There is no talk of “You will be hated for my sake.” Persecuted, in fact. Why not? Because people love not the truth. God is not in all their thoughts. Jesus Christ was despised and rejected of men. I don’t see that the Apostles experienced anything else.
I got so nervous in the mega-church because I felt it was not preparing me for the tough reality of what it means to take up our cross and follow Him, to crucify the flesh.
We Millennium Kids have a short attention span. We love to church-shop and church-hop and to be honest, it is a young people’s dating possibility. If there is nobody interesting at your church, you check out other churches during their services.
Let’s be perfectly honest, Millennium Kids! Most Christian youth in Oslo at some point end up visiting, for example, Filadelfia Church, another mega-church. Because they are in the capital, they get to choose from the best singers, musicians and speakers. I had a couple favorite speakers. You know, the kind that make you cry and you go home with this great point to chew on for the next week. The service is very aesthetically pleasing and much less rocked-out. But again, in a huge mega-church, nobody knows if you come or go. There are a hundred and fifty volunteer staff around ever service. It’s always flawless.
So as I was pondering my journey out of the mega church and why I would not end up at this church either… I decided to have a look at their networking. Turns out Bill Hybel has been coming over for the past 10 years for conferences on church growth. They have also hosted Brian and Bobbie Houston as guest speakers for conferences.
Their bible school students have been on trips to the US to visit the L.A. Hillsong church and they even visited Bethel in Redding California! When I think Bethel CA I think “Christian Harry Potter school of the super natural”. I’ve never heard of a church more occupied with carnal miracles then them, promoting nonsense like ‘Glory clouds’ and ‘gold dust’ and angels that they conjure up who have been sleeping (not to mention the ‘soaking’ or ‘gravesucking’ at the tombs of dead people to receive a spiritual blessing).
I found it was alarming the more I looked into who these mega-churches network with. The only difference was that Filadelfia was not a member of Hillsong Family. That is because they are an old, well established church with their own identity. But as you look into all these mega-churches you realize they network on an international scale.
People in Australia and America probably don’t think about the rest of the world because their countries are so big. But these mega pastors reach out on an international scale and trust me, we small mega churches in Europe are plugged into the big mega-church grid. So there is no getting away. You have to get out. Give up all the prestige and find a small church. A small boring church without an expensive hyped up kids program. A small church where normal people lead us in congregational singing. As you begin to hear the sound of your voice again…it’s like you get your own feelings back. It’s like a detox program because all your senses calm down. There is no worshipful atmosphere that gets you all pumped up and excited about God and than lulls you into a receptive mood for the sermon. It reminds me that my pastor used to joke about how the piano player should come up toward the end of the sermon to play softly and help him sound more spiritual! I really fail to see what is so funny. I guess I have no sense of humor.
Anyway I am not trying to come with some recipe on how church needs to be. I just know how I don’t want it to be. I don’t like being played with, internally manipulated. I don’t like all my senses on edge, sitting at the edge of my seat wondering what’s coming next? Wondering if I will end up laughing at a joke that really isn’t funny the moment I think twice about it.
I’m not either trying to say that “boring” equals spiritual and holy. Of course our life and walk and relationship with God is exciting and a challenging story and we should express that! But then we need the space and time to express ourselves.
We need to meet in smaller groups and actually share our testimonies. We need to be able to talk with our leaders. The church stage should not be way up there for the spiritual elite of the church, the leaders and their international friends. I’m not saying either that conferences are not a great idea and very helpful. But weekly church life should have a more organic feel to it. It’s like we all prefer tomatoes grown locally then shipped from another side of the globe. I feel the same with the spiritual food.
I want to hear home grown faith and up close and personal. This high profile stage that the mega church sets is so out of touch with me and my daily struggles as a waitress in a big hotel.
If I want a fancy entertainment show I can pay for that….but church is meant to be about meeting brothers and sisters in Christ. “Provoking one another to love and good works” “Admonishing one another” “Praying with out ceasing” Taking the beam out of our own eye before we pick at the splinter in other people’s eye! It’s that week by week growing in the faith. Getting past the milk stage and really growing!
I am so done with the mega church. It is not because I had some really bad experience and so I am just ranting and raving out of bitter disappointment. All I can say is that I was on my way out of the mega-church anyway and my church that joined the Hillsong movement simply sped up my whole process of “To be or not to be in a mega-church, that is the question” dilemma.
The End.
Written in Enebakk, Norway
March 18, 2015
Thanks for sharing sister.
I concur with all your observations and insights.
The new seeker sensitive church cares nothing for serious doctrine. If it did, the numbers would be affected.
The driving force is the music, without it, no Hillsong or mega church!
Isnt it interesting how not one example can be found in entire gospels or epistles where music was authorised? Jesus, the Apostles and all early christians sang hymns!
On a personal or secular level, music like art is subjective. Why should someone else’s style be forced upon another? Is church apartheid biblical? Why cant the young and old worship together?
Is it Gods plan that music should devide us?
In the purpose driven drivel perpetrated by none other then the mega church pope Rick Warren, the old pillars can either put up, shut up or get lost!
Mr mega church Pope even labels them in a positive way while treating them in the most crude and vile manner as “blessed subtractions.”
Im convinced this huge moron has never stopped to lay down his selfish life and think outside his own interests let alone his own country.
What i mean: a pillar from chuch is pushed out when church turns “seeker sensitive, for the unchurched.” Depending where one lives but usually USA has a church on each corner so although very undesirable and most possibly traumatic to shift to a new church, point been its still possible. But in Australia and other smaller and less christianized countries this becomes impossible!
Master Pope Rich Warren has to be one of the most evil and selfish false teachers to ever dress himself in sheeps clothing.
the seeker sensitive movement is another big lie. pastor mark beeson’s granger community church is a good example. here is the kind of stuff they do during their ‘church’ ‘services’..
this does not glorify the Lord no matter how anyone tries to frame it.
check this.. the more the one world church becomes a reality, the more these movement type ‘churches’ will go all out in their claims to ‘reach the unchurched’. worldly churches will become more worldly, new age churches will become more new agey.
in granger’s case, notice it appears they need to “reach the CHURCHED”, nfg
also i said “the seeker sensitive movement is another big lie” because depending on how you draw the boundaries, these movements still have some individual differences.
but eventually, in their insatiable quest for False Unity, all these movements who are giving only lip-service to the Bible, will all get absorbed into the one world church. nfg
The result from this seeker sensitive movement is a dumbing down for the members. Core doctrine is compromised, leaving any real christians vulnerable and ill informed, where they become soft targets for the enemy to destroy them.
The pastor usually prays, wouldnt want the ‘unchurched’ to feel uncomfortable. Flashes up a few bible verses, usually in such modern translations that Gods word is unrecognizable. No need to bring your bible and no need to stand while reading Gods word. But when it comes to the rock n roll freak show, you must stand up.
New rock style music performed by the so called ‘worship leaders.’ no need to sing as the performers on stage drown out any singing anyway, just move your body to the beat. The songs keep changing, so it becomes spectator rather than participation, and before that song is learnt a new one is added, and the whole cycle continues. PREACHING is minimal, maybe 20 minutes, while the performance on stage, along with a miriad of announcements (commercials) can take upto an hour.
False teachers like Brian Houston, Rick Warren and all the pastors who apply their methodology will not escape Gods judgement.
Thank you for the responses! Yes I reallty agree With you about the Music. I noticed that more and more about the Music. I remember from when I was in highschool and youth groop that the big discussion was Music and I remember it caused a lot of tension b/c of course the older generations wanteed to keep the hymns and the Young People fussed and whined for the New Young people music and pretty much threatened to leave the churches if the older People didn’t conform and give way. So basicly the older People were left With the options of going to a Church With only older People. Looking back I feel that we Young People lacked respect for the older People. We were not really encouraged or challenged to move toward the adults. The adults had to make way for the Young People to the point where they don’t even recognize Church anymore. Ive talked to quite a few older People who have just quit going. Why should Music devide us? It seams so silly. But I think there is a strong spirit in Music. Older People are more sensative and not as gaulable as we are.
These days Church starts With the premisis that the world is the normal People and that Church is such a culture shock and archaic that we MUST og the extra mile and og toward the world to Reach them. I now firmly believe in evangalisim out on the street. But Church should be for christians or People extreemly interested in Learning more about God and the christian faith.
Before I used to haul unsaved People to Church.Now I go out in the street and talk to them and I take more risks talking With my unsaved friends. I dont stand helplesely on the side lines hoping my seeker friendly Church will light the way for my unsaved friends!!!
Back to the Music it says in the bible they sang holy hymns. So I believe that Gods Music is meant to be different then the worlds. I remember going to huge youth rallies With basicly the christian Version of Britney Spears and Nsync!!! They really thought if they didn’t give us that then we would be bored and not come to christian youth rallies.
I look back and think really??? All the same that was a youth rally. Imagine now going to a Church every Sunday that never gets past the rock and roll…..Our christian life is one big party type attitude!! I remember at that Church that I went to that the Young People could put in hours and hours and hours on helping With all the legistics for all this stage setting and rigging lights and not to speak of how much the band puts in of time! And they Call it service to God! They Call a big show performance service and worship to God.
I agree that With where they put the focos With being all cool and relavent to the world they are headed for the one world Church. I still can’t get over that Brian Houston really tried to say that we are on a wide road. Well they can just have their “wide Church” and “wide veiw”
But lets please be honest and fair With People that the hard truth is that it is a narrow path and few there be that find it.
Hymns that remind you of holiness and the blood of Chrsit shed for us are not on that wide road of wide Music. Never have been and never will be.
the problem is there are so many churches like this all around the world, you say rick warren is wrapped up in sheeps clothing, so is bill hybels, benny hinn, kenneth copeland, morris cerrulo, joel osteen, joseph prince, t d jakes, creflo dollar.
but so many people are so taken in by these charlatons, these preachers dont care for anyones souls they only care about, believers pockets ans wallets. yes music has taken over the church, because the preaching is so weak so empty and so worthless.
no one is going to be fed with the message bible or the new living translation bible. there is no meat only milk in motivational speaking.
music has divided the church, because small churches cant compete with the mega church well paid professional musicians and the lights the stage the video screen productions.
i still cant believe all these things i heard about garden city church being taken over by hillsong. its the same with any mega church they start off being really successful and when they get into debt a bigger church movement comes and takes them over.
the problem with me is, i do like the music. you cant expect church music to stay the same. the problem is christian music is its multi million dollar industry that is being run by secular record companies.
the church sold out the name of jesus so many years ago, their is nothing left only comprimise and new age multifaith nonsence.
churches are being built on hype, they are not rooted in the foundation on the rock. they are building their churches on the worlds system.
Why do you seriously spend all your time finding things to bash a church that is reaching people for Jesus? It dosent matter what proof you have. Bashing a church is a waste of time and its not a good representation of the love of Jesus! Focus more on his Grace and his Love!
@JRH: ” Bashing a church is a waste of time and its not a good representation of the love of Jesus! ”
That is your own narrow opinion, it certainly is not from the Holy Bible. I hope you can provide Scripture to support your ‘thoughts’ for Christianity.
Please read Revelation and the warnings to the churches, It isn’t for the fainthearted.
Or perhaps you think that section of The Bible may not be a “good representation of the Love of Jesus”? Your new-age version is better ?
I think not.
@ Jacob Robert Holladay,
“…bash a church that is reaching people for Jesus?”
Reaching people for Jesus? Jesus’ disciples weren’t implicated in child sex scandals.
2. “Why do you seriously spend all your time finding things to bash a church?”
*** Hillsong isn’t a real church. If you start reading the Bible, you’ll quickly realize this.
“It dosent matter what proof you have.”
JRH, Of course it doesn’t matter….to you Hillsongers. All that matters at Hillsong is what your god Brian Houston says through his royal lips. That is pure Hillsong mentality.
Hillsong Young & Free would be more accurately named….Hillsong Young & Foolish.
“It dosent matter what proof you have.”
You’ve said it all really. Christians care about the truth.
You either have no truth in you or you are indwelt by the power of the Spirit of Truth.
This is spot on. If you have been a Christian for 30/40 years you are so out of it in ‘Hillsong Style’ Church. Many churches in my area trying to be Hillsong! It is a marketing disaster as middle aged plus usually are the ones who support financially.
Good points and we are on the same page about the show church puts on these days! “there’s no biz like show biz….except for church biz” 😉
But I agree with you that there is a lot of great christian music out there. Many great concerts and loads of great records that christian artists put out.
I am only objecting to this very high profile pop image that is pushed by the praise team. If a church has zero room for a hymn or special song by uncle so and so or even a Grandma then there is something wrong with the church. The stage has become high profile and where on earth is that model found in the church? It just seams so out of touch! If young people have a hard time rubbing shoulders with older people there is something gone wrong.
Of course for this snappy, peppy, style they push they use very modern versions of the Bible. Like the Message that can convert the Lords prayer “Thy will be done” to “Make it happen”!!!!!
“The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom” I don’t think that verse has been quoted in a long time in the mega churches.
“the church sold out the name of Jesus so many years ago”
Well T.D. Jakes said him self that the product sells. Jesus as a product sells. Like Jesus is popular and people want more of Jesus so it’s a good thing. But it moved very fast in America to making a buck off of “christian” everything. I think in the long run people are disgusted and unconvinced. I even felt when I invited people to church it was like I was “selling” them something. It was like I was trying to offer a repackaged version Of Jesus. Like “here….try our churches version of the Gospel…you may like it….you may even feel comfortable. B/c of course church is all about you feeling comfortable and accepted! ” I really bought into that idea for a while!
One thing that always bothered me about the music, was that it was always so loud it was harmful to babies and children’s ears and could cause permanent damage.
A lot of mothers would put ear muffs on their kids, which I found ridiculous!
To try and have things changed, I gave the church my ‘feedback’ which included the obvious reasons for turning down the music, but I also pointed out that they are knowingly harming children and I reminded them that my own child is autistic & could not even be in the room as the volume caused great distress.
I was told that there were too many quiet churches out there and this particular *cough C3 did not want to be another one of those ‘quiet churches’ and if I didn’t like it then that was my problem! Needless to say I left. It’s a sad day when the church cares more about being relevant than children.
I also had a similar experiece at Hillsong. The music and show they are famous for is driving a wedge between generations!
I do not even consider Hillsong to be a part of mainstream Christianity (if there is such a thing anymore). not only that, but Hillsong dragged many others who could/would have been a part of mainstream Christianity, away. Brian Houston constantly refers to Hillsong as ‘a denomination’, which I find arrogant and unusual. It nearly implies “these are under MY control.”
Exactly when has Brian Houston said that Hillsong is a denomination? I’ve only heard him say the exact opposite. One example:
“This is not the foundation or beginnings of a Hillsong ‘denomination’”
http://new.hillsong.com/family/about-hillsong-family/
“Exactly when has Brian Houston said that Hillsong is a denomination?”
I don’t know – could it have been around the time he was saying that we should be travelling on the “broad path”? Are you heeding Brian’s Godly advice, Newtaste? Are you taking care to travel on that broad path as he has commanded you?
~“This is not the foundation or beginnings of a Hillsong ‘denomination’~
That’s quite true. It has in fact proved to be the continuation of the Houston family dynasty, with the tax-effective money machine being passed from generation to generation. The only “denomination” that matters to Brian “You Need More Money” Houston is the denomination of the bills he collects in “tithes” from his spiritual serfs. Of course, hillsong can also be legitimately viewed as an entertainment franchise and as a protection racket where one is obliged to tithe or else suffer dire consequences.
Anyway, as Bobbie Houston would no doubt say, it’s not the size of one’s denomination that matters, but how quickly it grows (because Kingdom Women Love Denominations, don’t they Newtaste?)
Clutch at that strawman, newtaste. i.e. NOT THE POINT. The point being, Mega Churches ultimately hurt the very thing they are pursuing: Seeker’s of Christ.
You are so lost in this cult you dont even know what they say any more !
Your’e the only hillsong on here all day long, shows how bad it is your addiction to Brian Houstons !
Newtaste, the chosen one from the pack; so they can all throw stones at him. How privileged? They only know the truth in the form of a highly polished sepulchre. Anything else threatens them, they need to feel safe with their traditions and demi god heroes. But don’t say anything about them, or their chosen one. They don’t want unbiased opinons around here, lets not mention names, lets keep it all one sided. All this lukewarm heat makes me nauseous.
@Two Cents,
Very lame comment. You obviously pay no more attention here, than you do to Brian.
Newtaste is hardly ‘the chosen one from the pack.’
All past guests who have displayed Newtaste’s level of ignorance have gotten the same (or greater) level of response. In fact, Q and others received much more feedback for their ignorance than Newtaste has.
@Two Cents,
“Newtaste, the chosen one from the pack […]”
The odds favour being chosen, because Brian Houston isn’t playing with a full deck.
@Two Cents,
“They only know the truth in the form of a highly polished sepulchre.”
So you think that the Churchwatchers are dead right?
Word games on his part. For decades and to this day Hillsong have promoted the idea they are a move of God and they are an unstoppable movement.
I agree, it’s definitely not mainstream Christianity and it’s time Christians started labeling it as such. It is a sect/cult.
I’ll pray for Fernanda.
“I’ll pray for Fernanda.”
To which god, exactly? (You do know that according to Brian, if you “take it all the way back to the Old Testament” you can take your pick, don’t you Newtaste?).
@Two Cents,
You’re braindead.
@shree – Two Cents is a troll, he won’t be back.
@Two Cents,
I’m sorry – is that meant to be a witty riposte? Is that really the best you can do?
It is written that “[…] everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher”, and we can certainly see that Brian’s tutelage has its predictably deleterious effect on you.
It is natural for adherents of cults to be found clinging to defective theology, but it is invariably the case that they also suffer from a myriad of other ill-effects. Symptoms include impaired cognitive function (trammelled thinking, distorted perceptions, flawed reasoning, aversion to logical arguments), unhealthy emotional attachments, and issues with poor impulse control (viscerally-driven knee-jerk reactions in response to anything perceived as an attack on the objects of their adulation). The upshot of the foregoing is that the steady parade of hillsong apologists that one sees commenting on this site present as unimaginative dullards who struggle to string even a single sentence together, and who, to a man, are about as convincing as escapees from some lunatic asylum.
Maybe you can surprise us all, two cents. Perhaps you are a cut above the typically pathetic and clueless individuals who flock here in support of their messiah Brian Houston. If so, you are going to have to lift your game – please try a little harder, and put some real thought into your next post. Because, to be quite frank, it’s getting a tad boring seeing every single one of Brian’s ardent defenders here ending up as spiritual road-kill.
@TF – Two Cents is a troll, he won’t be back.
I’m convinced “Two Cents” was the same nasty unruly fella who goes by “Q.”
No it’s not Q, and we do remember a time when Q was a very pleasant guy to communicate with.
“No it’s not Q, and we do remember a time when Q was a very pleasant guy to communicate with.”
That’s sweet.
But when did I ever stop being pleasant..?
Serious question “asked in a really soft pleasant voice”
Nasty and unruly?
I think that was Y or W.
I’m Q.
And I’m neither nasty nor unruly.
I even “tiptoe” through the tulips.
“I’ll pray for Fernanda.”
Newtaste, no need. you are the one lost in a wicked cult. I am not.
obviously still in your childhood, and lacking of experience, you arent aware and cannot comprehend how badly this cult has corrupted your thinking.
You need to stop this obsession of making excuses 24/7 for Brian Houston and hillsong, and go lead a normal life.
BobHarry, the Roman Catholic Church is the mightiest megachurch and cult there is and there has ever been. It’s still going strong. There are a lot of people at Hillsong who escaped from the Catholic Church because of its false beliefs, a strong emphasis on worshiping people other than God, and seeing Mary as the giver of grace and the way rather than Jesus who just lays seemingly impotent and still dead on the cross behind the altar. The imagery of Jesus dead on the cross that is a constant in Catholic Churches is odd as their own catechism has the resurrection and Easter Sunday as the high point of the Church year.
Brian Houston has said that if you are going to have a cross then make sure that Jesus is not on it as He conquered the cross and grave for pur sins.
I was in the Catholic Church most of my life. Dead set cult.
I tried an independent Baptist Church for a few weeks. A cult almost of the Westboro type I discovered.
I’ve tried Uniting Churches. All very beige with really nothing happening there spiritually. Think Bill Crews.
I ve tried a couple of small home churches and never again. All hocus pocus, pushing people to the ground and expecting to see gold dust on the floor. They are grasping for something like Jesus but miss Him and try to get an experience in a trance. Little cults.
I’ve tried church watch. No thanks.
Oh yes, and I tried C3. The little art gallery beaming it’s beacon-like welcome akin to the cornerstone in Mecca.
Newtaste – appreciate your comments. Hope you also see that there are many who have been part of a Hillsong church and been spiritually misled by their experience. And praise God, they’ve been able to find their “voice in the wilderness” safe haven as they’re been led by the Lord to greener pastures.
Thank you newtaste for sharing your experience. It struck a chord, as I have been to several churches and experienced the same as you (beige! very good description of uniting, there). I have personally found that I have only been able to healthily grow when I have stayed in a church who has God’s word at its very core and encourages others to delve into scripture holistically. Generally speaking, the Baptist church and Presbyterian church have been faithful in keeping to the aforementioned necessities for a Christian. Maybe try one of these churches? It may seem boring/non-entertaining – but the whole point is us giving glory to God. A scripture to finish off here:
“Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.” – Romans 12:1&2
@ Newtaste “the Roman Catholic Church is the mightiest megachurch and cult there is and there has ever been. It’s still going strong. There are a lot of people at Hillsong who escaped from the Catholic Church because of its false beliefs…”
Attending Hillsong is not escaping the Catholic Church ‘cult’ when Hillsong have been openly supporting it for years. They even had a Catholic Snr Leader, Bruce Downes take a Masterclass at last years Conference so that Catholics attending the conference can understand the conference in a Catholic setting! https://hillsongchurchwatch.com/2014/11/01/hillsong-embracing-roman-catholicism-and-the-false-social-gospel-part-4/
You may not be able to accept that Hillsong is a cult, yet you support a ‘church’ that supports what you call a ‘cult’.
“Brian Houston has said that if you are going to have a cross then make sure that Jesus is not on it as He conquered the cross and grave for pur sins.”
@ Newtaste, So what?? Don’t you realize *all* pseudo-Christian cult leaders talk extensively about Jesus and extensively use the Bible to ‘prove’ their case, and draw in their gullible faithful.
Here’s the easiest way to rope you folks in. Using the Bible itself (by both misusing / misapplying verses). Claiming to speak for God. Cult tactics. You must test everything by comparing what is done and taught, with the Bible.
Does this website not do that?? Then why are you downcast on this website, since they are explaining/evaluating *using* God’s Word?? They have already shown time and again that Brian doesn’t actually give two hoots about the Bible.
The trickiest part of all. In addition they also speak some verses legitimately, *then* they add on their own doctrines, etc.
Preface the lies with some truth.
Sham tactics.
Remember discernment is not just separating truth from error, but also knowing when someone is mixing truth with partial-truths. That last part is what’s wreaking a lot of havoc today. That’s how Dan Kimball and others tricked unsuspecting folks to grasp for “ancient future” and other nonsense.
Get a grip New Taste. We critique Hillsong because they are a law unto themselves. They simply stay relevant by endorsing everyone so they can remain popular.
However, the reason why Australian Christianity is full of rubbish is BECAUSE of Hillsong. They demand that we embrace and listen to their latest idiots and their teachings at their conferences.
Let’s walk through your experiences.
NT: “BobHarry, the Roman Catholic Church is the mightiest megachurch and cult there is and there has ever been. It’s still going strong. There are a lot of people at Hillsong who escaped from the Catholic Church because of its false beliefs”
Hillsong ENDORSES Roman Catholicism.
“Brian Houston has said that if you are going to have a cross then make sure that Jesus is not on it as He conquered the cross and grave for pur sins.”
That explains why he doesn’t preach the cross at easter but “Silent Saturdays”.
“I’ve tried Uniting Churches. All very beige with really nothing happening there spiritually.”
But Hillsong pushes their same liberal theology and agenda (look at Tanya Riches). Only difference is that you probably enjoy Hillsong’s ear-popping rock concerts and their poor attempt of Christian productions.
“I’ve tried a couple of small home churches and never again. All hocus pocus…”
Like the word of faith rubbish that Hillsong preach?
“… pushing people to the ground…”
And Hillsong endorse the Rodney Howard-Browne nonsense.
“… and expecting to see gold dust on the floor. ”
And Hillsong promote the ministry of Bill Johnson who promotes all the gold dust and gem stone manifestation.
Where did these churches get their ideas from? The false teachers that Hillsong promote.
It is sick that you are pointing the finger what is wrong with every other church and not acknowledging that it is your church that gives the platform to the very worst so other churches may whore after them.
“There are a lot of people at Hillsong who escaped from the Catholic Church because of its false beliefs […]”
“It will be as though a man fled from a lion
only to meet a bear […]” Amos 5:19
“I hate, I despise your religious festivals;
your assemblies are a stench to me.
Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,
I will not accept them.
Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,
I will have no regard for them.
Away with the noise of your songs!
I will not listen to the music of your harps.
But let justice roll on like a river,
righteousness like a never-failing stream!” Amos 5:21-24
@TF – you will never hear Hillsong use the Message version for that scripture:
“I can’t stand your religious meetings.
I’m fed up with your conferences and conventions.
I want nothing to do with your religion projects,
your pretentious slogans and goals.
I’m sick of your fund-raising schemes,
your public relations and image making.
I’ve had all I can take of your noisy ego-music.
When was the last time you sang to me?
Do you know what I want?
I want justice—oceans of it.
I want fairness—rivers of it.
That’s what I want. That’s all I want…”
@CW,
“That’s what I want.”
Brian can use certainly use *that* sentence:
“The best things in life are free
But you can give then to the birds and bees
I need money (that’s what I want)
That’s what I want (that’s what I want)
That’s what I want (that’s what I want)
That’s what I want (that’s what I want)
Your love give me such a thrill
But your love don’t pay my bills
I need money (that’s what I want)
That’s what I want (that’s what I want)
That’s what I want (that’s what I want)
That’s what I want (that’s what I want)
Money don’t get everything, it’s true
But what it don’t get, I can’t use
I need money (that’s what I want)
That’s what I want (that’s what I want)
That’s what I want (that’s what I want)
That’s what I want (that’s what I want)
Money (that’s what I want)
Lots of money (that’s what I want)
Whole lot of money (that’s what I want)
Aha (that’s what I want)
Aha ha ha ha ha (that’s what I want)
Whoa yeah (that’s what I want)
Give me money (that’s what I want)
Lots of money (that’s what I want)
Always need greens (that’s what I want)
That’s right baby that’s what I need (that’s what I want)
Aha ha ha ha ha (that’s what I want)
Whoa yeah (that’s what I want)
Give me money
Lots of money”
That’s all he wants.
“There are a lot of people at Hillsong who escaped from the Catholic Church because of its false beliefs”
I was thinking along the same lines that 101discernment just posted. What a natural fit, and not surprising, since Brian Houston has stated the Pope is also spreading the Gospel. And also that is a common occurrence, it is not rare — cult-hopping from one cult to another.
“cult-hopping from one cult to another.”
Goats looking for a better pen.
No doubt newtaste’s undying loyalty to Brian Houston is simply a sub-conscious transference of adoration for the pope that is so deeply ingrained in catholics. If there are a lot of ex-catholics in the hillsong cult this would also explain the ferver with which the hillsong population in general defend their heretical head. Perhaps a mitre would be a good look on Brian (it would certainly help to hide that receding hairline which is making him look somewhat less cool and hip than his target demographic).
@MHD – here’s a classic example of RC ‘cult hopping’ – proof in the pudding that this occurs:
She played Mary during World Youth Day. Now she’s defected to Hillsong
Reported by MATTHEW BENNS. 22/02/2009 1:02:29 AM
SHE was a poster girl for World Youth Day, when more than 400,000 pilgrims gathered in Sydney to celebrate their Catholic faith.
Cast as Mary, Marina Dickson, 27, moved the faithful to tears as she cradled Jesus in her arms after he stumbled barefoot through the city for the 13 stations of the cross, watched by a worldwide audience of 500 million.
Now the Chilean-born beauty therapist has left the Catholic Church to worship at the evangelical Hillsong church.
She is thrilled: “It’s important you are where God wants you to be. I feel Hillsong is where I am called to be. I am so happy.”
Not so Australia’s leading Catholic, Archbishop of Sydney Cardinal George Pell. “If this is true and Marina decides to formally leave the church, that would be a surprise. It would also be a great sadness,” he said. “But at least she is not leaving Jesus Christ.”
Ms Dickson worshiped at St Mary’s Star of the Sea Catholic Church at Milton, on the South Coast, when she auditioned for the role of Mary.She said she was honoured to be chosen as the “beautiful and loyal woman of God”.
Last week, Ms Dickson, of Pennant Hills, told The Sun-Herald:”I have only good things to say about the Catholic Church but I have this hunger for God. I wanted to learn more about the Bible and have a deeper relationship with God.
“Hillsong is more about having a relationship with God. It’s a lifestyle, not just somewhere to go on a Sunday. I love it. It is like I fell in love with God all over again.”
Chehade Richa, 18, who played Judas, said Ms Dickson’s decision was “very surprising”.
“We were meant to embody Catholic youth but I guess if that’s where she finds her spirituality then that’s OK,” he said. “It’s not a betrayal;Hillsong still believes in Jesus and his core teachings.”
Alfio Stuto jnr, who played Jesus, said: “Who is anyone to judge what others do? Let those without sin cast the first stone.”
http://hillsong.hubpages.com/hub/hillsongchurch
From the Monstrance to the Monstrosity.
I’m “middle aged” (over 50), am inspired by Hillsong music & attend one of their Bible / grace based churches. (I’ve been to multiple churches over 4 decades, none are perfect, all have their strong & weak points). I aim to love, build up & contribute, out of my response to Jesus. (It’s about Jesus love & grace, furthering His kingdom). This site has little credibility due to continuing to perpetuate distortions, in a very unloving, hostile way. (eg Brian Houston said that the gate, Jesus sacrifice, is narrow, but the road / expression of His love is wide. He didnt say that the road to salvation is wide. Also blaming / judging Brian for choices his parents made.) If you are Christians, you will love and pray for all, including Hillsong & other big churches (as I will pray for you). Any constructive feedback can be addressed direct.
Truth & Love – Brian Houston can be accused of being deliberately deceitful with his word games and gaslighting. He is maliciously playing with people’s minds when he starts confusing the scriptures and twisting Jesus’ words like that. His agenda is clearly the gospel of inclusion and he is manipulating the masses by gaslighting them.
That is a very dangerous technique. If you are a Christian, you would not tolerate wicked, lawless men in the church like Brian Houston.
If your aim is to build up in love in your response to Jesus – you would not endorse Brian Houston and be self-disciplined in the Spirit to worship in Spirit and in truth, not worship in Hillsong and lies.
“I’m “middle aged” (over 50) […]”
So you reckon that you’re “middle-aged”?
LOL – ask the hip twenty-something crowd at hillsong what they think. They will tell you that you are *OLD*
“I aim to love, build up & contribute […]”
Well that’s very nice. What a shame that you have absolutely no basis on which you can do that.
“This site has little credibility […]”
And exactly how much credibility do you think is possessed by mid-life crisis whiners who should be old enough to know better?
“It’s about Jesus love & grace, furthering His kingdom”
Yes, Brian does love talking about all the positive things, like: tithing, blessings, prosperity, destiny, furthering the kingdom, being the best you can be.
How thoughtful. Brian doesn’t like wasting anyone’s time on trivial stuff, like: judgement, Hell, sin, God’s wrath, the lake of fire.
truth&love: “This site has little credibility due to continuing to perpetuate distortions, in a very unloving, hostile way.”
Distortions? Do you mean that Christians and muslims really do serve the same God as brian said?
Brian saying the narrow way is a strategy of the devil may be correct and the Holy Bible wrong??
truth&love:”blaming / judging Brian for choices his parents made.”
You are talking about the name that shall not be mentioned at hillsong..the elephant in the room at every hillsong meeting..Frank Houston aren’t you?
Did frank MAKE brian hide his paedophile crimes? No.
Did frank MAKE brian send letters warning pastors to NOT make information available to the hillsong congregation? No.
Did the late frank houston, from the grave, MAKE brian declare at the Royal Commisssion that he had NO MORAL or FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY to sex abuse victims? No.
Did his parents make him put money in a bag to pay for a victim’s silence? No.
Get serious t&l.
truth&love: “I aim to love, build up & contribute, out of my response to Jesus.”
Why? your pastor has shown that he doesn’t care about loving, building up or contributing to those who have been victimised by his own father! brian houston has ZERO CREDIBILITY.
“Any constructive feedback can be addressed direct.”
Hope this is o.k. T&L…Look forward to your reply.
And can i just add, T&L, the wide road theology is perfect for houston and his [cough] theology and somehows annoys him.
Who knows…brian may outdo himself and take on a Garden of Eden style theology twist. “At hillsong, we shall eat of ALL of the fruit of ALL of the trees, nothing is forbidden in our garden.It is good for food and pleasant to the eyes.”
Gen3:6 [KJV] “6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
“This site has little credibility due to continuing to perpetuate distortions”
@T&L, Which distortions? The same ones the secular media is also ‘distorting’? Yonggi Cho’s conviction, is that distorted? Or you don’t care about that one, because your money wasn’t part of the embezzled $Millions.
And why don’t you explain to CHC and Singapore police, because that wasn’t your money either, they should stop ‘perpetuating distortions’ and show a big friendly smile and drop the case of stolen $Millions there too?
Your selfish wide/narrow path ‘issue’, is more important to you, than Christians getting ripped off, huh?
You don’t care if more Christians get hurt / cheated / abused / lied to / ripped off, just as long as there is a little heartwarming internet love. Oh how sweet.
Truth & love,
You display no interest in truth, and you display no love for hillsong’s victims. Your moniker isn’t deceiving anyone but yourself. Perhaps you should change it.
I am not disagreeing with any of your statements. Although I must respectively remind everyone that they are still our brothers and sisters in Christ and we should never take our issues with those of our faith (or anyone really) public. Our Lord recieves no glory in his children highlighting each others shortcomings and strength is given to our enemies.
Again I am not disagreeing with your statements, but let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Much luv
Anthony
“Although I must respectively remind everyone that they are still our brothers and sisters in Christ and we should never take our issues with those of our faith (or anyone really) public.”
The problem with that statement is that Hillsong publicly preach a different Jesus, a different gospel, a different Spirit and a different faith. Putting it bluntly they preach a different religion and slap Christianity on it.
They make it public and they push their lies publicly and defend their leaders publicly. And what does the bible tell us to do with false teachers? Rebuke them publicly and force them to be silenced.
Our Lord receives no glory when Christians disobey this clear instruction.
CW: “And what does the bible tell us to do with false teachers? Rebuke them publicly and force them to be silenced.
Our Lord receives no glory when Christians disobey this clear instruction.”
Yes indeed. It is only hillsong and their ilk who are declaring that corruption and ignorance of the Holy Word of God should be dealt with *privately*. If it is the clear Word of God..it should be shouted from the rooftops..not *privately*.
‘To some who were confident in their own righteousness & looked down on everybody else, he (Jesus) told this parable … (he who said) “God have mercy on me a sinner” went home justified by God’ (Luke 18:9-13). “God knows your hearts… ” (Luke 16:15). “Love one another…” (John 14:34).”Love your enemies…” (Mathew 5:44-45)… I was apprehensive prior to my “church take over” by Hillsong (if I had the chance to vote no, I would have). Due to precious friendships there, I decided to wait & see… Nearly a year later, I am pleasantly surprised that Hillsong is very little as critics depict. I will remain for as long as it is a creative, joyful, grace, love & bible based church. Within which to grow & contribute, with multiple souls saved weekly. Not perfect, but improving. Sad that few here seem willing to listen or learn from another part of the body (the heart?). Instead publicly distorting & denigrating Jesus bride.
Is/was your church autonomous and/or small before the takeover? Was this church a different church (as in teaching/preaching) before the takeover? Do they now allow or have always had female pastors teaching mixed congregations?
My Hillsong church was autonomous before the “take over” (although there were past connections). Initially I wasn’t comfortable with female pastors teaching men, even though they were often better! Paul preached in the early church culture which had little respect for women. (Even though women are also made in God’s image). Paul knew most men were unlikely to accept women’s teaching. The law in Australia (Paul instructs us to respect all authority) says its wrong to discriminate on the basis of sex, age, etc. I accept women teaching men (God promises to work all things for good for those who love Him), although I personally prefer / believe its better to have humble Godly men teaching men.
You can find all your objections answered clearly and biblically here, and it would be interesting to hear your scripturally, in context, verses to disprove these points attached. Obviously a topic very divisive in our culture today even though God’s Word isn’t subject to “culture”, is it?
https://carm.org/women-in-ministry
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
We’re not sure if you’re aware that there are people commenting here who held similar views to yours (egalitarian) who through the simple clear reading of scripture historically and in context, now hold to the opposite position (complementarian). No one is suggesting it’s an easy journey to bend the knee the biblical text rather than our opinions.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Thank you for this truth!! I used to go to Passion City Church and felt the same thing as you spoke of in many of your blogs. I am hoping one day ALL TRUE followers will leave these churches and SPEAK up on what they ALL have become!! I appreciate your words 🙂
I feel the same way about all the preachers on faith tv exept Angus Buchan. Christian Family church with Theo and Beverley and River church with Andre& jenny became this celebreties and each one of their folowers wants to be like them. They have so many businesses between them and they brag of how their children’s cars and univercity fees are already paid up and if you church is lukewarm come join them. And ofcourse you will receive blessings from God if sow and partner with them and you will have the privilege of seen them on faith tv network and how many lives will be saved. What a mockery of every thing God stands for. It was a sircus in there conference with Rodney fake healing of people and fake laughing under the influence of the holy spirit. And the music and discolights with all the dancing youngstes ….I think that the Lord is so ashamed that people uses His name to get money and uses His Bible to sell God’s precious word so that they can manipulate christians to buy their miracles and end their moneyproblems and save their marriages
Rodney Howard Browne is such a deceiver…. From his involvement in the Toronto Blessing until now at his River Tampa Church, he always hangs tight with many others in the fake signs / wonders / miracles circle.
As rice is a staple in the asian diet, and corn is a staple in the latin american diet, Rodney Howard Browne will always be a favorite staple on the pseudo-Christian cultists menu.
Blessings in Jesus Name..
Shalom
Thanks for sharing your insight about mega church …
I am in the same dilemma..
Spent 5 years in mega church observing their culture…
Segregation…if you are blessed financially..you are on the right track…
But if you are suffering like Job…something is so wrong with your life…
There is the Absence of God’s Love and compassion…
Everyone seems busy getting what they want for themselves…
There is no genuine love and concern for others…unless they think or know you are wealthy …highlight is that Jesus blesses financially…prosperity gospel in a subtle approach!
No mention of taking up your cross and follow Jesus..nor any teaching on being conform to Christlikeness…
Everyone just want to feel good…Get rich…..
Yes agree…after a long while…church is like performances and entertainment every Sunday!
I don’t want to be in a church that I cant even go near and speak with the pastor…how does he knows the condition of his flock under shepherd by him?
The most concern is the New Testament on God’s love shown through believers isnt practised as I have experienced…no readiness to listen with their hearts nor any compassion shown…
Anyway I am praying for God to lead me as I am hoping to move away from the mega church …
Mega churches are suitable for those who are wealthy and wishes to move in and out of church unnoticed…no accountability…
God bless
There is one common thread among all churches that teach false doctrine.The gift of tongues. This doctrine is evidence of the pathway to heresy. Find a church that doesn’t speak in tongues, and you’re off to a better start.Mega churches aren’t personal.How can you get close to 20,000 people. You can’t. People in these churches are usually very empty people, who eventually leave, never to return to any church. Mega churches have the greatest turnover rate of any church. They promise the world, but leave people feeling empty, hence the turn over rate. Small churches are where you will find God’s genuine children, and will not feel empty.God bless
Thank you for sharing. I especially relate to what you write about enjoying the freedom of not being aesthetically manipulated. As for me, I feel uneasy at Hillsong-esque services where I can’t feel my own feelings. Such a setting is stressful and I personally feel it rather blocks me up spiritually, if I can say that. I think this type of service is, just like you suggest, a means of reaching out to the Milennium Kids, which is a good intention. But the church really should hold on to their own “selling points” which are of a whole different texture than the world’s and so don’t have to compete in the same league.
My parents are christians but never felt the need to join a church. I think there might have been some bad church expieriences in their youth. Anyway, that resulted in us having our own “church” and quiet time together as a family on Sundays. My mom and dad wanted us to have a strong connection with God and did everything in their power to encourage us spiritually. They also never turned us against the idea of church. About a year ago I decided to go to a Hillsong service with a friend and got more involved than I thought I would. I even served on a team for 7 months. Being almost 24 years old I started to feel a bit unsatisfied, old and to be honest, like a sheep. Never being at a church before, I didn’t really know what to make of my feelings. I get bothered with the advertisements and I often feel uncomfortable around staff and team leaders as they fully praise the church and the pastors. I still get moved by the sermons. I often just have to take a “church holiday” to just recharge and get away (not sure that is the point of a church!). I left my team thinking that maybe that was the problem – that I just spent way too much time there. Now I go to one sermon on a Sunday and it still feels like too much. The friend that invited me to the church isn’t even there anymore lol. Anyway, I’m stuck, I can relate to this article – I won’t stay there forever and I don’t know where I will end up. Considering just recharging at home with the fam again. Atleast I tried.
P.S – This Colour Conf. promo’s atm are driving me bonkers.