Bethel, Brian Johnson, Hillsong family, Hillsong insider, insider, Jenn Johnson, Johnson, Oslo, pagan mysticism, paganism, Roman Catholicism, scandals, takeover
This is Part 2 of my series of 3 articles. Please feel free to read my first article below:
Hillsong Insider (Part 1): “My exit out of a mega church… Never to return again”
In this article, I will be looking at how Hillsong asked Oslo Christian Center to join their godfather family in the spring of 2014.
THE HILLSONG TAKEOVER
I was actually not at church the Sunday it was announced to the whole church. One of my friends met me later the same evening and excitedly told me that the church had joined the family of Hillsong.
I thought I wasn’t hearing right! Never in a hundred years did I expect the church to join the “family of Hillsong”!
I thought it was good enough, more than enough, in fact, all sufficient to be a part of the family of God!!! Whatever did it mean to join the family of Hillsong? What were the implications? It sounded like a good ole boys club scenario to me, where you get asked to join the club. It’s like, what on earth had we done to put us in the spotlight, enough to catch the attention of an Australian mega church on the other side of the globe? I realized all the Norwegian church members were really honored and touched that we had been asked to join their family. “Humbled,” in fact, to quote our pastor. That we would make the list and be asked to join was really amazing to the church members. Everybody thought it was very exciting!
I was curious to hear how the decision had played out. Had we voted on it? Or even talked about it? Had I had my head in the sand? How had I not even heard the buzz in the air? Was it really just landed on us with absolutely no warning?
It felt like boarding a train and knowing more or less that you will end up at this-and-this destination, but then midway, without warning, they change the engine and you head off in a completely different direction! You have no idea where the stops will be and much less where the destination is! In short, I felt completely disoriented!
This was a huge decision on the church’s part, international in fact. How was it possible we had not been informed?
AN UNHEALTHY CHURCH MENTALITY
“So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.” 1 Peter 5:1-4 (Emphasis mine)
I did some research and found out that no, indeed, I hadn’t missed a vote or earlier announcement. A couple of members seemed shocked that I even asked about a congregational vote. They explained to me with a wave of the hand that one can’t have all the grannies getting involved to vote on the color of the sanctuary curtains! One needs a team of leaders to make these decisions because otherwise one would never get anything done! I couldn’t believe that was the explanation they tossed me!
I was seriously concerned about going to a church where the leadership made international decisions that they did not even run by us, the lay people, for some feed back. I asked some leaders if they had had prior knowledge. I was told that one month prior to the congregation being told, all the leaders, such as cell group leaders and various team leaders, were called in to a meeting and briefed on the idea. So first, the very top of the pyramid of leaders had discussed this, and when they had considered all the facts and felt it was a good idea, they presented it to the lesser leaders.
It was naturally presented in glowing terms by the top leaders, like it would only be a benefit to the church. We would of course keep our church name and own identity and operate church as usual. Joining Hillsong family would not affect our finances. But being part of the family of Hillsong would probably give us more access to Hillsong material and speakers and conferences and discounts of sorts. The leaders said at the meeting that they were open for feedback and thoughts around this decision.
It probably felt a bit like being a guest at a wedding. “Speak now or forever hold your peace.” Maybe some of the wedding guests have a certain gut feeling this marriage might not go well or are afraid the couple have not been entirely honest with one another or that they should give the relationship more time before they rush into this decision, but the doubting guest knows that the couple have made up their minds and nothing they say will probably stop them from taking their vows. Also, if they were to speak up and the couple got married anyway and lived happily ever after, then they would go down in history as the doubting guest with no faith in the couple’s commitment. Who is really going to risk their reputation and go out on a limb like that?
So I can imagine it was something like that at that meeting. Any silent objectors stayed silent and hoped for the best! Just sprinkle some good faith over it and it will work out for the best. I mean, hey, what’s not to like about it? It’s a win win situation! It’s a warm wall at our back! I mean, who in their right mind would turn down such an offer? It’s too good to be true! To get to be a part of famous Hillsong but still be our own identity?! Well, I wondered if it was just that: too good to be true.
Sadly, I personally think this decision says lots about our leaders faith and trust in our congregation; our congregations faith and trust in our leadership; and most importantly, how we as a church have put our faith and trust into Hillsong to love, grow, comfort and support us rather than God.
How is joining Hillsong helping us if we are faithfully preaching God’s Word daily? What power do they have that we don’t already have? Why the pressure to join? What are we saying about our church and leadership now that we’ve joined Hillsong? That we were incompetent?
HILLSONG’S OPERATION BEHIND THE TAKEOVER
So what did I know about Hillsong? About what every body else does. They are famous for their praise and worship music. I had an album of their music that somebody had given me and I knew others who rushed to get their newest albums as they cranked them out. We all sing their songs at some point in our various churches of all denominations. It’s this big church and popular Bible school destination. I mean, who with money doesn’t feel God calling them to a year of Bible school in exotic Australia???!!!! That’s really about all I knew about them. I mean, they are way over there on the other side of the globe. There are enough church goings-on to keep up with over here. Why pay any special attention to Hillsong other than their music?
But if we were becoming a member of Hillsong family, that must mean we line up with their doctrine and way of doing church. So I felt I better research the Hillsong pastors and see what they were up to, as I assumed we would be hearing more from them in the near future. As I looked into Hillsong, absolutely everything alarmed me.
Bit by bit I pieced together our involvement with Hillsong. Apparently we had history that went way back. Our pastor had studied at the Hillsong Bible School himself! So did someone at Hillsong Bible School give him the idea that he can convert his church into a Hillsong Church? If so, what Bible School would do such a thing? Why not hand over the church and start his own Hillsong Church upfront in Oslo?
When he returned to Norway, his father, who was the senior pastor and founder of Oslo Christian Center, gave him the opportunity to start a church in downtown Oslo. So the son started up a brand new church that was a branch of his father’s church. They rented Victoria Theater on the main drag in Oslo, a couple blocks from the palace. It was a theater that was a bar and concert venue the rest of the week. As I looked into Hillsong campus churches world wide, I noticed that seemed to be their trademark, renting secular theaters for church services. So we were apparently a chip off the old block! I guess it’s too embarrassing and uncool to meet in traditional churches. I assume this does not really accommodate the whole stage effect that these hip young “churches” are into.
I was told that Brian and Bobbie Houston had been emotionally and spiritually supportive about our young pastor starting this church. They had really prayed over him. Then when the son took over as senior pastor when his father retired they also really prayed over him again!
One year later, after he had been functioning as senior pastor of the three campuses of Oslo Christian Center, Hillsong invited us to join their family.
I hate to be so nonspiritual that I just look at the cold hard facts of finance and business opportunities, but all the same, I found myself pondering some things. Hillsong has a campus in Stockholm and Copenhagen… why not Norway? Norway is the most evangelical country of Scandinavia, so the market is big for a church like Hillsong. We have one of the best economies in the world and the highest standard of living. From a purely financial point of view, who wouldn’t want a piece of that pie?
Well, we were already here. So we would have been stiff competition for Hillsong, to be perfectly honest. So maybe Hillsong thought if you can’t beat them, join them. Whatever the case, I couldn’t get rid of this nagging feeling that this was a great strategy on the part of Hillsong.
It wasn’t only our church that joined the family of Hillsong. A few months earlier, Intro Church also located in downtown Oslo, joined the family of Hillsong. We joined the family of Hillsong in the spring of 2014 and that summer, Norway was the most represented country at the London Hillsong summer conference.
A couple months before we joined the family of Hillsong, Pastor Clark from the London Hillsong campus, spoke at our leadership conference. That must have been a key weekend for all the leaders that were in the know! The following year after we had become members, they had three Hillsong pastors as speakers at the leadership conference: Hillsong pastors from Stockholm, Copenhagen and London.
The latest checkup on the OKS.no website shows that they now have various groups you can join, such as, “The Creative Team,” “The Kingdom Builders,” and “The Sisterhood.” These are ideas that come from Hillsong.
IS OUR CHURCH LOSING IT’S IDENTITY?
“O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.” Galatians 3:1 (Emphasis mine)
I remember the first Easter service I was at the church, the sermon our pastor preached was really good and strong. It was an excellent service and had an impact on many. In fact, the people that I invited to that Easter service ended up coming back because it made such an impression!
But a year later, around the time we were joining the Hillsong family, the Easter service was very different. First of all, our pastor did not preach, even though he was present. The pastor from Stockholm Hillsong preached. I just didn’t understand why the Hillsong pastor wouldn’t want to be preaching at his own church on Easter morning. And why would our pastor move over on such an important Sunday? This is the big Sunday they encourage everyone to invite guests and people that maybe don’t normally go to church. If I had invited anyone to church that Sunday, they wouldn’t have gotten an impression of our own pastor. The sermon was so unmemorable. I can’t even remember the main points.
But worst of all, was that they had a trapeze artist swinging from silk scarves hanging from the stage ceiling as the praise and worship band played. It was a total show! It did not at all help me to think about the real reason of “Resurrection Sunday.” The show took over and as our pastor got up to do announcements, he said, ” Wow! What are we going to do next Sunday to compete with this?!!” And I thought, “Yes, what are you going to do? You have whet an unstoppable appetite. The show must go on. You have brought cake and circus to the church. Now you are going to get up and bore us with a sermon? Well, at least keep it short and sweet and peppy and fresh!”
When they tantalize our senses with so many experiences, they do not prepare us for a serious sermon. We just want more of the fun stuff. Oh please!
Don’t we have enough entertainment on our T.V., internet, Facebook, and iPhones? Do we really come to church for more of the same stuff? Like trapeze artists swinging on silk scarves to the music of praise and worship? Talk about caving into the carnal desires of the flesh!
WHY can’t we stick with the simple Gospel? The King of the universe was born in a stable. When Jesus Christ, the King of Kings, came to Jerusalem for the Passover, which we now refer to as Palm Sunday, He rode in on a donkey. Just one Easter service at our church cost more then both of those events put together! I couldn’t help thinking about the churches being burned in Pakistan and Egypt. Our dear brothers and sisters in Christ suffering and being martyred for the sake of the Gospel. Meanwhile we just pumped more and more money into presenting the simple Gospel to wealthy, high-maintenance western Christians.
That was one of the last Sundays I was at that church. The next Sundays I came only to fulfill my cafe duties through to the end of the spring semester. I simply could no longer with good conscience support the theology which is of course the backbone of any church–what they believe and stand for and put the focus on. I want to follow Jesus and not be a part of some big namebrand church that pumps loads of time and energy and money into entertaining the crowd.
HEADING DOWN HOUSTON RD
It was easy to see where Hillsong was headed. The Hillsong Praise Band has performed and worshiped with practicing Roman Catholics and partook in their pagan rites at the national Catholic World Youth Day, Sydney Australia.
That is called ecumenism. Hillsong work with other faiths that teach things that are not in the Bible, like praying to saints, and worshiping Mary. And then the Catholics in turn let all other forms of faith on the stage, like Buddhists and Hindus and Shamans.
Hillsong also shared their stage with Brian and Jenn Johnson of Bethel in Redding, California. Hillsong let Brian and Jenn Johnson’s praise and worship band open up their 20l4 summer conference in London. Brian Johnson openly joked in an interview at a Hillsong praise and worship workshop, that the “Glory cloud of God” mostly shows up when it’s his song!
I find it toxic to be in an environment that openly laughs and jokes about holy things like the presence of God. The glory cloud of God is no laughing matter! We need to get back to, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” (Proverbs 9:10).
Hillsong pastor of the New York campus says he has “conversations” about a sin like homosexuality. There is no “Thus saith the Lord” unless it’s important issues to them like tithing and new prophetic statements. Also, how anybody can find the Hillsong promotional video for their 2015 summer conference inspirational, I will never understand. They make God sound very far away, as if we can hardly hear Him in the “violence of silence, brutalizing the senses”. We are “drawn by a whisper that waits for our response.” What does this mean? It’s nothing but pagan mysticism presented as Christianity!
At no point do the creators of the promotional video say we actually have the words of God in our hands. A book called the Bible. A living book that we are meant to open and read. And every “whisper” that we hear blowing out in this vast universe is meant to line up with the word of God. And if it that “whisper” does not line up with the word of God, you chuck it out!
Hillsongs vision for 2015 in their own words is a “dangerous declaration, a new manifesto.” I would have to indeed agree with them: Hillsong has a new dangerous declaration that I want to stay far away from. Their new manifesto is another Gospel, another faith and another Jesus.
Above are just some of the unsettling truths I came across. I am still learning more frightening information about Hillsong as I write. Hillsong’s takeover of Garden City Church should concern Christians globally.
Hillsong insider: the GCC “merge” “was surely and truly a “plotted corporate takeover””
There is nothing ethical about the way Hillsong is undermine and take over churches like mine. These are people’s lives after all that will be affected. We need to be careful who we put our trust in. I personally, feel betrayed with my church’s conduct. I felt pressured and manipulated and I am sure others felt the same way.
To me, I wish my church was more forthcoming about this takeover in advance. Why could they not trust their congregation in voting on this very important issue? Why did the congregation blindly hand over their trust to the pastors to make this decision for them? Why the secrecy? While I discovered that it wasn’t hidden knowledge that my pastor studied at Hillsong and met with Brian Houston on some occasions, why was it decided that the entire church would be influenced from the top down in secret?
Everything was so carefully managed and orchestrated. Was our church informed about Hillsong’s history in Australia and New Zealand? There had been some scandals involving Pastor Frank Houston, Brian Houston and other Hillsong leaders. Are we to embrace their theology?
And what would happen if we became a proper bonefide Hillsong “Church”? Who will own the assets? What if my pastor realised that he made a mistake? Will Hillsong simply see him as an asset and discard him the way Hillsong has dealt with leaders or troublemakers in the past?
These are tough questions that I hope I will find answers to.
Thank you sister, very detailed and insightful.
” As I looked into Hillsong, absolutely everything alarmed me.”
Your church was basically stolen by the seeker sensitive, prosperity gospel movement, orchestrated by evil men such as Rick Warren, and his purpose driven methodologies.
Thank you again and look forward to part three
“Dan” over on ChurchwatchCentral has something to say about Hillsong takeovers:
Submitted on 2015/05/20 at 10:38 am
“well. Our church just got taken over by Hillsong. This is how they did it. Important anouncement. Go through the whole service. At the end they say: and the new Senior Pastors are: bang!! The Houstons. Later during the week they had a question and answers night but all questions had to be emailed so they could prepare the answers. On the night, nobody was allowed to ask anything randomly. Now after serving on the worship team, I’m now left without a church for the obvious reasons. They are ruthless but this will bring my family together as we are now doing home church.”
Rick Rabbitwarren, Joel O’stain, Creflo Crispy Dollarbill, Brian Houstonwehave aproblem, have with all that touchy feely mates damaged so many people churches and communities. In my own family is a huge divide.
I was told by a cousin to be very careful that some how I was tempting being cursed for questioning the Hillysongees and their friends, This cousin pastors a church a mini me of hellsong. I told him that what he refered to without saying..Their favorite comment and rebuke “Rouch not God’s annointed and do His prophets no harm” . Was not about the congregation questioning the leadership. BUT totally about those who would harm God’s Isreal…that is HIS BRIDE. It is completely about false prophets leading the sheep astray…and enemies like Isis destroying and murdering the saints. Both the actions of the false prophets and the direct enemy of God’s people lead to the same end. EXCEPT this…when a sheep sees a real wolf that sheep KNOWS he is breakfast. WHEN a sheep sees a false prophet, without the right Biblical knowledge DOES NOT KNOW they are breakfast.
Re: “Hillsong Family”
I assume that your point is to prove that Brian talks rubbish no matter what the context.
Of course, we already knew that.
Thank you for the comments! It’s very clear that the church was already firmly marching in the seeker sensitive way in the first place to go so willingly into the arms of the Hillsong Family. I mean it was totally with out a struggle.
I have also been bamboozled with the “Touch not the anointed”
But these big leaders “movers and shakers” are saying about THEMSELVES “touch not the anointed”!!!! It is rather a lot of brass isn’t it!!??
They should have faith in God and that HE will defend them. They should not protect themselves in that defensive way. They fling that defense around like it is a free for all and can be used by every modern day so called profit and that God will some how go good for them. They use it in a bulling sort of way. When I look up that verse in the bible it is David that is saying that and he is saying that about profits that scripture very clearly defined as profits. Psalm 105:15 AND 1CHRON 16:22.
David is saying that God said “Touch not his anointed” and then David goes on with Thanksgiving of how God keeps His promises to His people. God Himself reproved Kings for His peoples sakes. Let us join David in leaving it to God to call the shots.
This is a very good article. What it does show, is how hillsong “invite you into their family”. Not in a caring Christian way mind you, but in a corporate way based on business models for takeovers.
‘What [this article] does show, is how hillsong “invite you into their family”.’
They make you an offer that you can’t refuse, and, once you have been conscripted, you find yourself subject to their own particular brand of omerta. You might be welcomed into their “family” with a kiss on both cheeks, but cross the capo di tutti capi or any of his duly appointed henchmen and you will swiftly find your character being “taken for a ride”.
“you will swiftly find your character being ‘taken for a ride’”..
“how ’bout meeting in a dark alley somewhere compadre, if you ‘got the guts’ for it”
Since I wasn’t one of the privileged leaders at the debriefing meeting about our plan to join Hillsong, I dont know how much was divulged at the time. But I really find it amazing when the church now has the “Sisterhood” the “Kingdom Builders” and so on which are groups totally modeled off of Hillsong. It is such a name brand way of doing things! I really think the Kingdom Builders is the weirdest. It says in the intro that this is a group of people who give financially to further the Kingdom and so they get together as great visionaries and back up the vision with their finances. I guess that club is for the wealthier people in church. Very weird if you ask me. It’s like the lay people are in the tithing class….then you have the next grade up…the real kingdom builders who I guess God has blessed extra. They have more to give and therefore can launch a Kingdom Builders club to brainstorm on what God has for the church and the next move to make.
I guess those that hold the purse strings make the decisions!
It is indeed very weird. Kingdom Builders (called 100 Kingdom People when I was at Hillsong) costs $10,000 per year to join (on top of tithes, offerings, love offerings, miracle offerings etc.). The rich aren’t the only ones to join though, because I personally knew people on very low incomes who paid through the nose to be in that club.
The next tier down is Vision Impacters which costs $5,000. Kingdom Builders gets you far more influence within the church though because you get special benefits such as invitations to exclusive seminars and retreats. Money speaks louder than anything at Hillsong. Rich business people and celebrities get treated like royalty.
“Kingdom Builders (called 100 Kingdom People when I was at Hillsong) costs $10,000 per year to join.”
LOL: I wonder how much dough the Apostles had to fork out to be numbered among the twelve. (I bet Brian “I Need Your Money” Houston knows the answer; maybe someone from hillsong should ask him).
Chosen: “group of people who give financially to further the Kingdom.”
I hear this phrase all too often, mostly from the american false apostle groups. People expressing how worldly money furthers a ‘kingdom’. But what kingdom? The earthly kingdom of houston and other ‘worldly self-appointed apostles’ i assume.
Most likely these people have forgotten or defiantly choose to ignore the Words of Jesus Christ.
John 18:36 [KJV] ” Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
Very interesting Uppercut, thanks for the info! I had no idea we were talking 10,000 bucks a year! And that there is levels with in levels! I just checked the churches website and for the info announcement they have this skyscraper jutting out of the clouds! Gives me a weird modern Tower of Babel feeling! All it said there on the add for the meeting was that Kingdom builders is a fellowship of givers who through their economy wish to have ownership to the churches vision! Everyone was welcome to the meeting and more announcements and info would be given at the meeting! Well I bet the membership fee shocked the socks off some people that attended! Imagine paying to be a part of the church vision!
Why do normal poor people even bother being a part of this church I wonder!?
I was wondering what the hillsong people *in the cheaper seats* get to call themselves? Those who scrape the bottom of the offering bucket?
A SMH article entitled: “Oh, come all ye faithful, joyful and cashed up” September 8, 2013 gave me the answer.
“Davey” prays for generosity as buckets are passed around: those donating $5000 and above are called “Kingdom Builders”; those contributing $2500-$4999 are “Vision Impactors”; below that sum lie the “Army of Faithful Believers”.
Guess the *kingdom* was cheaper to get into back there in 2013.
Hillsong Hill Campus Sunday service is still running late at 9.30am!! (Origin 9am) Is that we follow to Jesus correctly? NOPE, that’s why Hillsong needs to pay million dollars for donation centres and the forgiveness!
Yes, that was a Pause for thought…..How much did the apostles pay to be in the top 12 Disciples club!!! I seam to remember they were at one point arguing about who would sit next to the Lord in His glory. It’s a very human temptation to want to move up the ladder in importance and status. But Jesus brought them right back to the main point!!! Those that want to be the greatest must serve! “Whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister” Mark10:43
Its like Hillsong acts like money is the big Wow! the Big You’ve made it into the christian version of “Forbes List” of influential people.You actually get to buy yourself a spot on the Kingdom Builders List of Who’s Who!!!!
I personally know some very well off financially Christians who use their material blessing from God to help out a lot of people. Then I know others who are quite poor but they spend a lot of time in prayer and fasting and they really pray for others and really are putting a lot of time in to to study the Bible and so on. They evangelize. They are not even asking God for a pay raise or for financial blessing and rewards from God because money is not this big deal for them,,,,they could take it or leave it! So who is a better Kingdom Builder? the rich christian or the poor christian? Who is Hillsong to judge that and put some sort of financial price on the “Kingdom Builder?”
Jesus blesses different types of people in the sermon on the mount…those that mourn will be comforted….and those that are meek will inherit the earth…those that are merciful will obtain mercy. There is not anything about those with the cash will get to be the Kingdom Builders!
We are meant to trust God for our daily bread.
Truth & love said:
Paul says that God loves a cheerful giver, to put aside an amount proportional to income, to aim for equality & for the rich to sow generously into God’s kingdom (rather than hoard up wordly wealth for own pleasures). Hillsong kingdom builders might seem tacky, however it is quite consistent with Paul’s teaching on giving. Recently Hillsong members willingly donated over $300,000 to the Nepal World Vision appeal). Paul said that he is entitled to financial support, but as it might be a hindrance to the gospel, he prefers to earn his own keep when possible. (I pray that all chuches adopt a more self sacrificing attitude, as percieved financial pressure / emotional manipulation is a stumbling block): I understand that a substantial proportion of Hillsong’s income is through music (which call me shallow, I find edifying, inspiring & encouraging). Paul doesn’t mention the word tithes or an amount of 10%. From what I’ve recently heard, Brian Houston seems to have dropped these old testament, legalistic principles from his vocabulary. (By the way, Jesus who extinguished all OT curses, only mentions tithes in the context of Pharisees law keeping & overlooking the greater matters of justice). I believe He is more interested in the heart attitude behind the giving.These days due to freedom in grace, I cheerfully give to extend God’s kingdom (as the reality is it costs money to plant churches, arrange free third world country programs / concerts, etc, & the labourers deserve / require reasonable wages). I also give out of trust that God will take care of my needs (sometimes its more, usually it’s less than10%, often to “poorer” Christian organizations). I don’t give to be blessed, as I believe that is a wrong motive (although coincidentally I usually am blessed). We all have a responsiblity to seek God on these matters through His word etc, why its important for mature Christians to encourage & pray for constructive balance in all churches, not just Hillsong… I continue to enthusiastically attend my relatively new Hillsong church, as I find it to be bible & grace based, with loving, joyful, creative, unique, motivated, humble, young & old, rich & poor, real people, from multiple cultural backgrounds. A church where commitments of 4 – 8 people are made weekly (more @ Easter). Our greatest challenge is to ensure new believers develop deep strong roots in Him. (Ps I could quote verses, but time / phone limited this week).
Christian Soldier said:
Another Hillsong Defender? More excuse makers for Brian Houston. Why do you think Brian Houston needs YOUR help? You say you want some false teachings so you can look at them objectively? You don’t look at anything objectively. You look at everything through wacky Hillsong optimism glasses. The ones you bought off their website. The ones Bobbie wears when she hears ‘God whispering.’
“Paul doesn’t mention the word tithes or an amount of 10%. From what I’ve recently heard, Brian Houston seems to have dropped these old testament, legalistic principles from his vocabulary.”
Knock, knock. Is anyone in there, mate?
Profit Brian Houston just came out with “Live Love Lead”, the CON-vertisement for the book was nothing more than a big Prosperity Pep Talk.
Even Hillsong ‘is listening’, but you aren’t….
T&L is actually a very good example of what a false teacher would desire in his followers. Ignorance of Scripture, personal versions of Scripture to suit the new-age pleasure of the senses ‘church’, blind obedience, and turning a blind eye to the questionable lifestyle, history and ‘theology’ of brian houston.
Where is the courage to avow your Faith in the Holy Word of God, the Bible and His Commands? Yes, Commands…not suggestions.
John 12:40 [KJV]: “He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”
As for the very lengthy T&L ‘defences’…they just fade away. An apt quote for this type of meandering would be: “So much swimming, only to perish at the shore.”
ray e jones said:
“As for the very *lengthy* T&L ‘defences’”
All t&l’s wordy responses, however they say little and understand little. Don’t know about anyone else, but So far I haven’t been able to read straight through even one of them. Their Too boring.
@ray – you need to take the time (and show a little maturity) to hear the “other side”. She is as much a victim of poor theology as many of us previously were, having come out of these movements by God’s grace. Hearing from her perspective allows us to carefully walk with her through obvious errors biblically.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Truth & love said:
I don’t claim to be representing Hillsong theology on giving / tithing. It’s just my own, my current understanding from God’s word. (Perhaps it isn’t “perfect” theology, but God knows my heart / motives) … I can also understand where Hillsong & many churches got their prosperity view from (eg re being blessed / cursed from the last chapter of Malachi). Church Watcher I agree it might just be a matter of (well intentioned but) faulty theology (ie not giving as much weight to NT teaching), rather than deliberately exploiting ignorance. I believe that Hillsong has shifted / is shifting away from the prosperity gospel, but I will remain open / vigilent to the possibility that I’m wrong.
ray e jones said:
I meant “They’re too boring.”
That spelling correction is for all you grammar and typo aficionados out there, the OCD-infested human spellcheckers, such as newtaste.
Wouldn’t worry about newtaste..his worst nightmare has come true. Brian is having pringle speak at hillsong.It’s proudly on his instagram. Oh no!
ray e jones said:
Will newtaste be honest and show his disapproval of Phil Pringle when in public amongst peers? Wonder if Phil Pringle will ‘get a word’ for Brian Houston.