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Brian Houston, c3 paedophile coverup, c3 paedophile scandal, c3 pedophile coverup, c3 pedophile scandal, Ferguson, houston, Kerrie Ferguson, paedophile, paedophile scandal, paedophilia, phil pringle, pringle, scandal
We have been covering the paedophile scandal cover-up of Phil Pringle of C3 Church. If people tuned in to 2SM radio this morning, they would have learnt that this scandal also found it’s way into the Hillsong movement.
This morning, Grant Goldman from 2SM radio publicly challenged Scott Morrison’s associations with cult leader Brian Houston of Hillsong. Goldman also introduced the serious issues behind Hillsong by introducing cult leader Phil Pringle and his C3 movement into the mix, highlighting the fact that both men have covered up paedophilia in their church’s. Goldman focused on Kerrie Ferguson’s story as well.
You can read Kerrie Ferguson’s ongoing story here in how this was covered up:
C3 Parramatta Scandal (Part 1)
C3 Parramatta Scandal (Part 2) – The cover-up scandal that Pringle refused to deal with…
C3 Parramatta Scandal (Part 3) Sex, Money, Power
C3 Parramatta Scandal (Part 4) Pringle regards pastors “gambling” worse than pastors defending a pedophile?
C3 Parramatta Scandal (Part 5) Phil Pringle’s leadership – an unresolved mess
C3 Parramatta Scandal (Part 6) C3 prophetically manipulating the abused into silence
C3 Parramatta Scandal (Part 7) Letter exposing Pringle covering up paedophilia & refusing to help victim
You can listen to the radio segment here:
Scott Morrison attends ShireLIVE and has close ties with the better-known Hillsong community. Brian Houston is one of Morrison’s mentors and we have a personal email claiming that Scott Morrison has boasted that his mentor is Brian Houston.
Hillsong’s influence with influential people: “Brian Houston, is one of [Scott] Morrison’s mentors”
If you don’t know how to navigate what surfaced from the Royal Commission regarding Houston covering up his father’s crimes, please read the below link:
Evidence, Fact Files & testimonies exposing Brian Houston at the Royal Commission
[EDIT: 23/09/2015 – Transcript added.]
TRANSCRIPT: Grant Goldman to Scott Morrison, Monday 21 September 2015.
“On August 24th, less than a month ago, I had something to say about Scott Morrison, I stated that in 2007 Morrison as State Director of the Liberal Party was the beneficiary of a totally unfounded and unjustified smear campaign against a man by the name of Michael Towke, the telecommunications engineer who had been preselected by the Liberal Party for the seat of Cook. The effect of that smear campaign was that Morrison, who in contesting the preselection, had received less than one tenth of the votes won by Towke. But Morrison was able to gain the Liberal endorsement as the Member for Cook.
In recent days supporters of Tony Abbott have suspected the loyalty and sincerity of Scott Morrison who appears to have been rewarded for his failure to defend the then Prime Minister against the Turnbull attack. In his Maiden Speech to the Federal Parliament on 14 February 2008, Scott Morrison made favourable mention of Pastor Brian Houston who operates the Hillsong religious organisation.
So who is Pastor Brian Houston, the mentor to Scott Morrison? Is he?
This is the fellow who told a Royal Commission that he had no legal or moral obligation to the victims of sexual abuse perpetrated by his predecessor in the leadership of Hillsong, his father Frank Houston. In October 2014 the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Abuse was told by a witness known as AHA that when he was seven years only, Pastor Frank Houston would come to his room, lie on him, fondle him and masturbate him. When Brian Houston found out that in 1999 that his father was a pederast taking advantage of a young boy, he failed to tell the Police. Instead, Brian Houston and committee of the Assemblies of God suspended Frank Houston’s preaching credentials, for just two years.
It gets worse. I have in my hand as I write a copy of testimony given to the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Abuse by a lady named Kerri. I shall put this document on my website. Kerri told the commission the tragic story of how her son was raped by the man she had married. Her son reported the crime to two Pastors, Gary Dench and Ian Treacy. They did not tell the police. They did not tell the victim’s mother. They admonished the victim, telling him he was partly to blame.
After Kerri learned from her son what had happened, she told the Police and also asked for help from the Head Pastor of the Christian City Church, Phil Pringle who provided no assistance. Pringle had suspended Dench, not because Dench had concealed a crime against a child, but because Dench’s wife had won a prize in the lottery.
Later Kerri asked for help from Pastor Brian Houston of Hillsong Church knowing him to be a close friend of Pastor Phil Pringle. I’ll quote what Kerri told the commission:
“I related our circumstances to Brian Houston who became very irritated, told me he did not believe that such a thing had happened, turned his back on me and walked away.”
That is Brian Houston, who I understand with his wife Bobbie still calls the shots at Hillsong.
I am inviting Scott Morrison to come on my program and repudiate Pastor Brian Houston. I want Scott Morrison to express disgust at a Christian Leader who fails to report the sexual abuse of a child. I want Scott Morrison to express disgust at a Christian Leader who turns his back on member of his own congregation, a mother whose son has been betrayed by other pastors in the network, who refused to report to police that that boy had been raped, and instead told the boy he was partly to blame.
If you agree with me, back me up. If you disagree, prove me wrong.”
[TRANSCRIPT COMING SOON]
Hillsong Church Watch 
Well this just gets worse. It is an utter disgrace. Kerri Ferguson was told the same thing I was told that I was to blame. I was told this no lesser than by Brian Houston. I was the child rape victim of his father Frank Houston and I was in the court when Brian Houston told the commissioner that he has no legal no moral obligation to the victim’s of sexual abuse perpetrated by his father and predecessor Frank Houston. You have blood on your hands Brian Houston and you have blood on your hands Phil Pringle and you will answer to God. Note I WAS 7 YEARS OLD!
Did you put a submission into the Royal commission? If not you can still send them a statement.
@Newtaste, it may have escaped your notice, but “angel” appears to be claiming to be AHA – THE victim… Did he put a ‘submission’ in? It looks like he did!
With all respect and empathy. A relative if mne died long before BrokenRites were advocating for victims of catholic religion abuse.
I am wanting to know what you want Brian Houston to do?
I am wanting to know what you want Brian Houston to do?…”
What he always should have done – compensate the known victims on this side of the Tasman Sea, and arrange for some post trauma counseling services for them.
To say that he is under NO obligation to provide any kind of assistance and/or compensation for these victims of Frank Houston may well be seen in a dim light, should Brian have to face criminal charges over the cover up of his father’s pedophile actions.
All he is trying to do, is limit the damage to Hill$ong’s public image, and also trying to prevent anyone from claiming compensation in the first place, by denying that he and Hillsong have a clear moral duty of care to do so.
Totally agree with you, Apollo. Brian Houston has lost all credibility, except in the eyes of his brainwashed Hill$ong fan club members. Brian has every means in which to compensate the victims. So why doesn’t he. Thats what a man of God would do, and want to do.
Hi Annette – nice to see you online after so long…
Yes the Houston clan and Hill$ong think that these very serious matters can simply be swept under the carpet and that multiple victims of the ACC’s (alleged) very lax policy and policing of child protection laws at that time, will be ignored.
I can speak on this matter a little, as I am a trained youth worker, who did his time in a NSW TAFE college back in 2000. I graduated in March 2001 with some distinctions.
Every person who works with children, including youth workers, counselors and social workers, doctors, pastors/ministers, school teachers, nurses and others, are obligated under NSW law to report even “suspected” child abuse. They don’t have to have anything on video tape, but if they even suspect that one or more children are being abused, then they are in a position where they MUST report any such ‘suspected’ or actual abuse to the appropriate authorities – in the first instance – the police.
Investigations are then usually conducted by specialist detectives and workers from either Docs (Department of Community Services) or another specific child protection agency. They often operate as a joint task force, and are specially trained to perform these kinds of investigations. They aren’t the kind of people who ignore evidence nor do they play games. They take their work very very seriously.
As you can see, those who know or even suspect that a child/children are being abused are compelled to report the matter to police – there are no exceptions under NSW law that I am aware of – none!
Hi Annette – your commenting privileges will be reinstated if you refrain from personal attacks (the reason why you were blocked from commenting in the past.)
Apollo. Thank you for your comments and support.
Hi @angel. I’ve not been ignoring you, but it is most difficult to know how to respond to threads and posts like this one sometimes.
People one the one hand, can’t imagine what victims go through and on the other hand, whenever it gets mentioned online, there’s the strong potential for past memories to emerge, bringing up mixed feelings once more for the victims.
The truth must be told until there is some kind of recognition/repentance coming from the leaders of these wayward cults. They’re afraid about the “damages” bill, not to mention the severely scarred public image which they are now forced to endure as well. It’s too late to try and band-aids the cancer inside these “churches” and if it goes on unchecked, more victims will emerge.
Brian Houston should have taken care of this at the earliest opportunity, with integrity and decisive action, to expose and deal with his father’s actions. Failure to do so at that time could mean some jail time for Brian, or some other severe penalty.
It is a shame and a tragedy, that the world, in it’s role of the courts, the police and the media, are now forced to clean up Brian’s mess for him. That’s what a lack of integrity does to people in the long run. It gets very messy for ‘important’ people, who fail to “clean house” when the opportunity was there…
Of course, we are yet to see much in the way of sympathy or compassion for the victims coming from Newtaste, Hill$ong, Brian Houston or anyone else from the ACC. What if it was one of their kids that had fallen victim to Frank Houston or any other “church based pedophile”?
There’d be hell to pay over that, because the leaders are ‘somebodies’ whereas the followers are ‘nobodies’ – just convenient “tithing units” who pay all of their bills, and without question. People who can be gotten rid of, when it no longer suits the leaders to have them around anymore…
“Of course, we are yet to see much in the way of sympathy or compassion for the victims coming from Newtaste,”
That is a lie. I have constantly said that Brian Houston should have reported his father when he found out and taken action back then.
And you have absolutely no clue about me and my background.
I don’t have to know anything about your background Newtaste. Every time I see you eating rubbish, I just know that you’re a goat – and that’s all I need to know. You will support Hill$ong to the hilt with every kind of obfuscation, distraction and vain argument that you can muster, so into the goat’s pen you go Newtaste…
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7ShrEjsm.png[/img]
“That is a lie. I have constantly said that Brian Houston should have reported his father when he found out and taken action back then.”
Then why in the world do you continue attending Brian Houston’s so-called ‘church?’
“That is a lie.”
How come it bothers you when you think Apollo ‘lies’ but it doesn’t bother you when Brian Houston lies?
Even if Brian did wrong by not notifying police, he could at least show some sign of repentance and take responsibility for the actions of his church. Compensate and look after the people whose lives they have ruined. They should practice what they preach. Oops, I forgot, they don’t preach the Word of God!
“Then why in the world do you continue attending Brian Houston’s so-called ‘church?’”
If everyone stopped attending every Christian denomination where there has been sexual abuse there would be no more Christian churches. If you look at the investigations by the royal commission there were many churches who did the wrong thing, some over and over again.
“It is a shame and a tragedy, that the world, in it’s role of the courts, the police and the media, are now forced to clean up Brian’s mess for him. That’s what a lack of integrity does to people in the long run. It gets very messy for ‘important’ people, who fail to “clean house” when the opportunity was there…”
I noticed Newtaste, that you were very selective about what you commented on from that last post of mine…Care to comment on the above paragraph too?
““That is a lie…”
Making out that I tell lies Newtaste? I think that in just on 2 years (?) of posting here, no one has called me a liar and meant it, otherwise they would be able to compare some of my posts, and prove it, yet no such ‘proof’ has been collected and posted here…
“I have constantly said that Brian Houston should have reported his father when he found out and taken action back then.”
Even if you did say it here on occasions Newtaste, did you tell Brian and Bobbie that??? Did you say it publicly, where and when it may have counted for something, or did you just compromise (another Hill$ong “core value”) and let the matter rest???
Why? Because you’re willing to “blend in with the crowd” and not make waves for the leaders… that’s why!
Newtaste you would make a great companion during persecution at the Coliseum. I can just imagine you pulling on an orange jumper, and telling the advancing group of Roman torturers that:
“I’m not one of the team here folks, I’m just a trainer temporarily on the field, don’t hurt me…”
Great company indeed…
How sad is that, Newtaste. Do you think that is an indication that there is something horribly wrong with the churches?
Personally I would immediately leave any congregation, regardless how nice and relevant they seem, where sexual abuse have not been dealt with in a proper way. Because that’s where the evil one is manifested.
Ephesians 5:11-12 “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather REPROVE THEM. For it is a SHAME even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.”
Ephesians 5:13 “But all things that are REPROVED are made manifest by the LIGHT: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.”
Matthew 6:23 “But if thine eye be evil, thy WHOLE BODY shall be FULL OF DARKNESS. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!”
And if there only are few churches left who adheres to a sound doctrine it just so overwhelmingly proves God’s word true again:
Matthew 7:13-14 “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for WIDE is the gate, and BROAD is the way, that leadeth to DESTRUCTION, and many there be which go in thereat: Because STRAIT is the gate, and NARROW is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it.”
Matthew 7:19-21 “Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and CAST INTO THE FIRE. Wherefore BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
Excerpts from KJV.
Totally agree with you, Iwonder. I would not go to any church which covered up pedophiles either. We MUST protect children, one of the most vulnerable in our society.
“If everyone stopped attending every Christian denomination where there has been sexual abuse”
You argued before hillsong isnt a denomination. now you refer to it as a denomination. You are so wishy washy.
https://hillsongchurchwatch.com/2015/05/18/hillsong-insider-part-1-my-exit-out-of-a-mega-church-never-to-return-again/#comment-19020
I didn’t say Hillsong was a denomination, because it’s not. Please don’t become as clueless as the trolls around here.
“I didn’t say Hillsong was a denomination”
You said “If everyone stopped attending every Christian denomination”, thereby comparing hillsong to Christian denominations. Now you say that hillsong is not a denomination – if that is true, then why make the comparison? It is because you are a confused individual, and the source of your confusion is hillsong – just as hillsong can never keep its story straight, neither can any of their followers. Just as Brian Houston is forever flubbing his lines, so his underlings and hangers are unable to stick to a script.
You wouldn’t have this trouble if you had stored up the word of God in your heart, newtaste, but unfortunately you are unwilling to forsake your idolatry and so you remain mired in a darkened pit by your own choice. The word of God has integrity, and those who stand on it and who show wisdom in correctly dividing it according to the leading of the Holy Spirit will never be put to shame. Sadly, you prefer to cling instead to Brian Houston and his worthless cult, with an outcome that is as sad as it is predictable, and that is writ large for all to see every single time you comment here.
Jesus came to set the captives free, and, more than that, to make them overcomers, but you never present as one who is even remotely like that. You are a prisoner of your fixation with hillsong, and, with darkened eyes and bent back, you exhaust yourself like a rat in a wheel. You run and run and run, but you never go anywhere; you never make any progress at all. Such is the fate of all those who are sucked into the maw of the prosperity gospel cults: they imagine themselves sighted, but they are blind; they perceive themselves as God’s elite, but they are more deceived than even any atheist, and are in fact thoroughly lost. Even as they strut about like so many preening peacocks they are the most pitiable mob imaginable, who have exchanged the glory of God for a lie and have allowed themselves to be yoked with the rules of men.
Hillsong don’t like the fact that they’ve been categorised as an international by different Christian groups and discernment sites around the world. So it makes sense that they are attempting to change their stripes again to be seen as a denomination.
“Please don’t become as clueless as the trolls around here.”
Because you have no facts you always resort to your last desperate defense – calling everyone “clueless” and “troll”. Whats obvious is youre describing yourself.
“And you Apollo have absolutely no clue about me and my background.”
Apollo has ‘absolutely no clue’?? Enough of your lies. Apollo and the rest of the internet already know plenty more than we care to of your boring life history from boring posts such as this one.
https://hillsongchurchwatch.com/2015/05/18/hillsong-insider-part-1-my-exit-out-of-a-mega-church-never-to-return-again/#comment-19030
So because other churches and religious leaders also commit/ cover up past child abuse Hillsong should be given a pass conceded instead of a FAIL grade? Newtaste, I wonder what would it take for someone like yourself to say enough is enough.
Do you/ other Hillsong supporters have similar low expectations for fellow workers, family members, and loved ones? e.g. Some person may consistently push personal boundaries, blur the truth (to their advantage), promise everything, give little back in return, take lots of money/ time/ attention etc.
Newtaste would you say someone being taken advantage of that way should just make the best of the situation, try to view that person in the best light (because “that’s what *nice* people do”) and continue to defend them despite more and more (usually negative) truth being revealed about that person abusing other people’s good will by multiple sources?
I think there are a number of ways to describe a situation. I try to live and speak from forgiveness and from my nature in God. Church leaders of large churches tend to run it like a world business as you know. Management and staff and a congregation. Protecting the business from litigation on one hand and delivering the word of God on the other. Very few churches run it the way God says because they have stopped listening to God in much of their life. Maybe a ‘pastor’ should not also be a business man. The two roles are very different and not really interchangeable. Good at business may mean failure as a pastor. So when a person speaks to the pastor they are speaking to at least two personalities. One is caring for the person and the other is caring for the ‘church’. A contradiction in motivation.
When we know something which is damaging to the church, who can we speak to especially if we want help. Generally no one on church staff can really help. A pastor cannot be a pastor under those circumstances as it affects the business.
So who can help people who have experienced the trauma of an abuse from a businessman posing as a pastor and then a pastor posing as a businessman.
The nature of the beast vs the nature and of Christ.
1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
‘Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.’
That’s talking about people like Brian Houston. What’s your point?
Sally, perhaps you’d be better off starting from the beginning of that chapter, and then applying what it says:
“1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.
In that way you could try and discern the ‘spirit’ behind Hill$ong (which is not the Holy Spirit,) and other apostate churches, and not be found defending the undefendable… then there’s verse 4 and 5:
“4 You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world.
5 They [antichrists] are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them…”
God’s Holy Spirit resides within the believer, enabling an overcoming lifestyle. The world “hears” groups like Hill$ong, because they offer a very watered down ‘gospel’ which looks good and sounds great (if you don’t really want to repent and just prefer to enjoy the party atmosphere,) but cannot save the hearers, because it is NOT the Christian Gospel message at all. Repentance is at the very core of the Gospel, and without it, there is no Gospel to speak of.
Those kind of people are what the Bible calls “goats”. Why? Because goats eat rubbish, they don’t like being corralled in a sheepfold, with good shepherds watching over them – they have an independent spirit, and would rather be in the ‘goat’s pen’ where they can come and go as they please, obey no scriptural commands as to doctrine and lifestyle, and be ‘looked after’ by hirelings. And we all know just how such hirelings look after the sheep, don’t we Sally?
John 10:1 – 18
http://biblehub.com/kjvs/john/10.htm
“let us love one another”
That is speaking to the Beloved, meaning from one brother to another. Brian Houston is outside of the fold.
Stop cherrypicking verses to suit your own myopic viewpoints.
And why did you gloss over 1 John 4:1 ? You need to read the whole Bible, not the Sally So Confused Translation.
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but TEST THE SPIRITS to see whether they are from God, for many FALSE PROPHETS have gone out into the world.”
And earlier in *same book*:
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
Therefore those who keep God’s commandments are God’s children and His love is with *them*.
Does Hillsong teach and keep God’s commandments Sally?
Does churchwatch keep the commandments?
Does the holy spirit reside in hillsong the church and attendees of the church or is it 100% satan?
No graduating answers please like 5% holy spirit and 95% satan because how can the two coexist?
Did you feel the prescence of the holy spirit last time you were at hillsong or was it the prescence of satan?
“Does churchwatch keep the commandments?”
False question. The real question is: “Does churchwatch believe the bible?”
To that we say ‘yes’. And as a result we are convicted daily of our sins, repent and appreciate the saving gospel that offers us the amazing grace and mercy of Jesus Christ.
But does Hillsong believe the bible?
No. They love the lies, their sins, their covetnous, their delusions, their idolatry, their perversions and they love to keep justifying their wickedness and apostasy in Jesus’ name. Thank God Christians leave and find real churches that believe the bible.
“Does the holy spirit reside in hillsong the church and attendees of the church or is it 100% satan?
They don’t believe the bible nor love Jesus. Jesus said, “If you love me, keep my word.” So why don’t Hillsong members do this? Why do they INSIST to sit in an environment of frauds that weekly pervert the Word of God? Have you read 2 Timothy 4 lately? Why would the Holy Spirit reside in a place where people love their sins and are not convicted of it?
“Did you feel the prescence of the holy spirit last time you were at hillsong or was it the prescence of satan?”
Of course we didn’t feel the Holy Spirit at Hillsong. But we noticed the musicians were promoting the idea that what they were manufacturing was of god. Everything was pleasing to the eye but we did not eat or participate with others in eating the bad fruit from their bad tree.
Did that answer your question? Do you honestly think people who have the Holy Spirit in them would put up with such idolatry, rubbish and perversity in Jesus’ name?
Go read your bible Sally. Your feelings are useless if you honestly think that it your barometer in the field of discernment.
“No graduating answers please like 5% holy spirit and 95% satan because how can the two coexist?
Did you feel the prescence of the holy spirit last time you were at hillsong or was it the prescence of satan?”
Sally, If you took the time to understand the Bible, you’d know that Satan DOES mix truth with error. Of course that’s one way he snags people!
2 corinthians 11:13-14
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
Oh i think im beginning to start to understand where you are coming from now.
Churchwatch doesnt need to follow the ten commandments like hillsong does.
Hillsong IS christian like churcheatch but there is more satan in hillsong than there is in churchwatch but both have aspects of satan sin and the holy spirit its just that hillsong has more.
A bit like:
Hillsong 90% satan and 10% holy spirit.
Churchwatch 10% satan and 90% holy spirit.
I get it now.
“Does churchwatch keep the commandments?”
No tennis match strategy please. “Yeah but what about you?” belongs in the playground. All people are sinners, but not all people are repentant ones i.e. Christians.
Why no mention of teach the commandments? Interesting Omission. Why doesn’t HILLSONG teach the commandments in depth to their listeners i.e. more than mention “love God love neighbour”? e.g. commandment to trust in God.
Luke 12:6 Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? 7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. *Fear not therefore*: ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Perfect opportunity to preach on commandment “Fear not” because God is in control.
e.g. Doubt or Lack of faith is sin. People who don’t trust God are sinning.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
People can demonstrate the sin of doubt/unbelief in many different ways, including outwardly righteous ones. People who try to do things in their own strength, do things their way not God’s way do not please God.
e.g. doubt that the Gospel *by itself* is powerful enough to save people AND God Himself is powerful enough to draw people to Himself if and when HE pleases. Above case could be demonstrated by a church taking things into their own hands and adding lights, music and entertainment to draw in crowds and watering down the message so more people “make a decision for Jesus”.
The Christian has to repent of their doubt and confess it as SIN (not make excuses for it), return to God, receive by faith/trust in God’s forgiveness and demonstrate that repentance outwardly when necessary.
e.g. confessing to church members they been wrong, and they are going to walk in faith with God, preaching the whole Gospel “and if church numbers shrink, we will trust in God to give us our daily bread” and “who cares what the [unsaved] world thinks of our change of heart, we now aim to please GOD not man”.
“Oh i think im beginning to start to understand where you are coming from now.”
Sally during your stay here you have not ‘begun to understand’ anything.
“Hillsong 90% satan and 10% holy spirit.
Churchwatch 10% satan and 90% holy spirit.”
It appears that again in your satanic pride, you miss the point of a Bible verse. Read that again: “For such are false apostles.” This refers to Brian Houston setting up his bogus ‘church’ network around the world.
“Churchwatch doesnt need to follow the ten commandments like hillsong does.”
No Hillsong doesn’t, one obvious example:
“Do not misuse the name of the LORD your God, because the LORD will not leave anyone unpunished who misuses His name.” — Exodus 20:7
Whenever Brian and Bobbie Houston speak one of their bogus words from God, they have misused the Name of the Lord.
Does the holy spirit reside in hillsong the church and attendees of the church or is it 100% satan?
If there is belief in Jesus Christ of the BIBLE then the Holy Spirit resides there. No faith in Christ, no Holy Spirit. You’re oversimplifying choice between Holy Spirit and Satan: people -whether saved or unsaved – do respond to music they love on a biological level as well as spiritual.
If Hillsong preachers do believe in Jesus Christ of the Bible then time for them to man up, preach the whole Gospel in context – including what would make non-Christians flee the building and whinge to the media- and then trust in *God the Holy Spirit* to minister to the sheep in the congregation via the preaching and worship. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+16%3A7-15&version=KJV
“Did you feel the prescence of the holy spirit last time you were at hillsong or was it the prescence [sic] of satan?”
I last went to an Melbourne Assembly of God church (2007) that sang a LOT of Hillsong music. From memory I felt little at all. I watched people swaying and raising hands everywhere though and got quite frustrated. I do remember reading the lyrics and noticing it was all about personal relationship with God.
After that moved to Adelaide, went to a Baptist church (only one nearby). I remember that worship, reading the songs and WOW – they’re all about Christ and what He did for us. About GOD, not US. The Jesus of the Bible was preached there. I finally understood why I had not felt at home at AOG churches/ other charismatic churches (even though I really liked the people, one fellowship group especially). Have kept to “boring” Baptist churches from then on.
OK So I am getting into it now.
So the old signs and wonders is also taken out of context? Yeah?
This Scripture must mean something other than the way the claimers of miracles (signs and wonders movement) interpret it.
The Pentecostal movement promotes signs and wonders.
What about the Toronto Blessing?
The Vineyard movement and John Wimber?
We do not worship a book, but we have been instructed to seek Jesus Christ through the book and to have the book as our unfailing guide to His truth.
Jesus said in Luke 11:28 what would characterize a blessed individual, ” …blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it.”
In Acts 12:24 we are told that ” …the word of God grew and multiplied.”
Signs and wonders didn’t grow and multiply, spiritual gifts didn’t grow and multiply, “inner healing” didn’t grow and multiply (as if some Occultic concept like this would).
However, these are the insertions that John Wimber would have you make to accept the “gospel” he espouses.
We are told in Acts 19:20 that as a result of the work of the Holy Spirit which brought conviction and repentance, “So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.”
When the Holy Spirit works miracles, the end product – the Word of God (i.e. Jesus Christ) – grows, not an individual or his/her ministry.
The sad fact is, John Wimber’s emphasis on the concept that signs and wonders produce church growth is a corporate business concept, not a biblical concept.
These concepts have more in common with Multi-Level Marketing than anything found in Scripture.
In fact, if Scripture is any guide (and of course we contend it is our only guide), Peter on the day of Pentecost saw three thousand converted because of the proclamation of the Word of Life, not the “mighty rushing wind”.
The main command by Christ throughout His ministry and specifically His last command was to preach the Gospel. If we preach miracles, we are practicing the opposite of the great commission which is about the gospel. Then we are not delivering the true message and we certainly will miss the true power.
Yeah?
“So the old signs and wonders is also taken out of context? Yeah?
This Scripture must mean something other than the way the claimers of miracles (signs and wonders movement) interpret it.”
This is why there has been the ongoing debate of Cessasionism vs Continuationism, with many ending up somewhere in-between.
“The Pentecostal movement promotes signs and wonders.
What about the Toronto Blessing?
The Vineyard movement and John Wimber?”
Many movements have caused great damage, because their presentation of supposed signs (many of which are not even found in the Bible), has unfortunately lended great credibility to some insidious false teachings the movements have simultaneously introduced and/or propagated. One example is the UPC teaching baptism only in the name of Jesus being necessary for salvation. My Jesus in my Bible says “NO WORKS.”
“In fact, if Scripture is any guide (and of course we contend it is our only guide),”
In the end, I believe this will be the key factor in clearing up all the smoke surrounding all the signs debate. Christians will rely more on comparing the teachings and behavior of these movements with the Bible. The Bible is our only infallible guide. We shall know them by their fruit (mainly the bad fruit). Think Todd Bentley kicking the woman in the face. Who in any rational state of mind would follow such a purveyor of wickedness, regardless of the ‘signs’ he supposedly performs?
@John John – I agree with you in terms of the false teachers. Their ‘words’ are false and so their ‘signs’ will also be false. No way is the Holy Spirit of God going to confirm a false doctrine or a false gospel, with true signs and wonders. As a long term Pentecostal, I can guarantee you that!
“Signs” were given to confirm the word (essentially the Gospel) as in Mark 16:
“15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”
So we can see that “signs and wonders” were given by Christ in the context of preaching the Gospel to a lost and dying world. They “follow the word”, but what we have in many places nowadays, is a whole crop of deceiving tares, who promote wholesale ‘signs’, but with no saving gospel message attached. Nor can those ‘signs’ be found anywhere from Genesis to Revelation…
No one has license to create and promote a ‘signs and wonders’ travelling roadshow, which milks people for money, preaches a ‘gospel’ that cannot save, and then embellishes that ‘gospel’ with fake signs ans wonders in order to keep the money flowing in to their coffers. That’s where “Leap of Faith” type movies come from!
The “show” must go on, – so say many of the false prophets, but this was never the intended use of ‘signs’ in the first place. They are a confirmation of the word, and must agree in their operation with that word – God’s word, our only standard of doctrine, practice, life and conduct…
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