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A'Bell, arrest, Brian Houston, C3, Hillsong, Hillsong Church, houston, Joel A'Bell, mesiti, Pat Mesiti, steve west, West, wifebeater
People have started asking the question: “Is Pat Mesiti is still a pastor at either Hillsong or C3?” (Due to his recent arrest after beating his wife.) Even though Pat Mesiti was exposed in a scandal that expelled him from his position at Hillsong, evidence shows he is STILL considered a pastor in the Hillsong and C3 movements.
The proof of this is the fact he is still able to travel between Hillsong & C3 churches AND apparently speak in a pastoral context from their pulpits, (remember, the official role of a church pastor is to teach/preach from the pulpit). AND we are yet to hear an official statement denying that Pat Mesiti is a Hillsong or C3 pastor.
As we’ve written earlier,
“Just like Phil Pringle and Brian Houston, Mesiti wanted to be seen as a motivational speaker. He talks about how Hillsong and C3 have helped make him into someone who wants to make him a better pastor and business man in “evangelism, crusades” and “business functions”. Another article also informed us how Brian Houston was also there to guide, counsel and support Pat Mesiti.”
HILLSONG “PASTOR” PAT MESITI
You can read our article here, covering Pat Mesiti preaching at Hillsong London in 2010.
Money-Making Mesiti ‘Ministering’ At Hillsong London In 2010…
We also know that Senior Pastor Joel A’Bell from Hillsong , as early as 2010, defended “Pastor” Pat Mesiti from critics.
On the 13th of October 2010, Joel A’Bell posted this tweet, which came through on his FaceBook wall,
A genuine leader will never exploit your emotions or your pocketbook. Matt 7:16 MSG.
In reality, the Message is NOT a valid translation of the bible. It’s a paraphrase that is filled with pagan and new age references. Nevertheless, Eugene Peterson did capture the nature of today’s false teachers rather well – they DO “exploit the wallet”. This particular scripture attracted Hillsong critic Steve West and others to protest the fact that Hillsong pastor Pat Mesiti DOES exploit Hillsong member’s emotions and their “pocketbook”.
Steve West was the first to respond,
And thus will likely not have offerings at every meeting, conference, cell group and college chapel service.
This led into questions as to why Hillsong’s disgraced pastor Pat Mesiti was acknowledged as a pastor at Hillsong London on Joel A’Bell’s wall. Many people, including Hillsong attendees, were surprised he was reinstated at all and protested other sins of Mesiti to Joel. By this stage, Mesiti was rapidly earning the reputation, world-wide, as an international con-artist from 2009 onwards, with his ongoing endorsement of men renowned for their dubious integrity.
The fact that Mesiti endorsed notorious con-artist “AussieRob” did not help strengthen his reputation as a con-artist. Read more here:
Aussie Rob – Lifestyle trader
LifestyleTrader.com.au (Aussie Rob) Review
This did not stop Joel A’Bell from defending AND endorsing the apparently restored Hillsong “Pastor” Pat Mesiti from speaking at Hillsong London.
So why was Hillsong allowing Pat Mesiti to speak at Hillsong London – in spite of critics pointing out how Mesiti fulfilled the scripture that Joel A’Bell put up on his FaceBook wall? In fact, this snippet of Pat Mesiti in 2009 was put up in the conversation on Joel Abell’s wall back in 2010:
Source: By speakercoach, Pat Mesiti Millionaire Mindset reveals the best tips on public speaking and presentation skills, YouTube, https://youtu.be/fldjYzfLUxw, Uploaded 16/04/2009. (Accessed 18/01/2016.)
In spite of the evidence put up by these critics, Senior Hillsong pastor, Joel A’Bell, defended Pat Mesiti speaking at Hillsong London in 2010 in his comment section:
“I knew Pat before, during and after his moral failure. Those who don’t know him should keep their comments in closer circles or to themselves. I find these public comments about Pat to be unloving. He is well on track in his restoration…”
“I said to keep it close (or) to your self. They could put their unrelated issues on their own wall. I wouldn’t use your wall to push my pet topics. Would make more sense if I had of posted something about Pat but this just screems of immaturity…”
Throughout this entire conversation, Joel A’Bell did NOT refute the assumption that Pat Mesiti was a Hillsong pastor. His continual defense of Pat Mesiti speaking at Hillsong London only confirmed the fact that Pat Mesiti was still a Hillsong Pastor (or affiliated with Hillsong’s leadership). Furthermore, he defended Pat Mesiti as one of their own.
It is clear that Hillsong, as an organization, was NOT acting in ignorance but validating and treating Pat Mesiti as a RESTORED pastor in their movement. Otherwise, why have him speak as a pastor at Hillsong London?
We note in 2014, Mesiti’s “loyal friend,” Brian Houston said:
“Literally, it didn’t only cost him his ministry, it cost him his marriage, it cost him his home, he lost his home, it cost him everything. The only thing he had was loyal friends and perhaps that’s the greatest thing we can have anyway, is loyal friends.
And there were people who stuck with him, people who I know here in our congregation who stuck with him. I was talking with him yesterday on the phone, actually text messages, same thing these days, and ahhh he was telling me that after years of rebuilding his life, just constantly rebuilding his life that the house he lost that his sin, his shame had cost him, he is on the edge of perhaps buying back.” [Source]
Brian has made it clear. Mesiti is still alive and well as a “restored” Hillsong pastor, he still has close relations with Brian Houston. In fact, Brian Houston used Pat Mesiti an example in this sermon of how one can be restored. Restored into what?
C3 “PASTOR” PAT MESITI:
We’ve also covered how C3 “Pastor” Mesiti spoke at C3 RealMen’s Conference and had no problem speaking on C3’s Positive Hits:
C3 Continues To Endorse Money-Magnet Mesiti
But our main focus is to draw your attention to Pat Mesiti preaching at C3 Church in 2013:
Source: By c3churchtv, C3 Online – 20/10/2013 | Pat Mesiti – The Joseph Generation, YouTube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdgdrEMoAK0, Uploaded 21/10/2013. (Accessed 11/08/2014.)
In this specific sermon, not only is what Pat Mesiti saying blasphemous, he also refers to his involvement with Hillsong.
In the sermon above, Mesiti says,
“I said that at Hillsong London at the Freddie Mercury theatre.”
So something tells us Mesiti has not been broadcasting his other Hillsong “pastoral” engagements. Furthermore he states (present tense),
“I have a preacher on every single day… This year I’ve invited Bob Harrison and Pastor Phil Pringle to be our chaplains. This is where we raise the million dollars for missions… On here is Brian Houston. On here are my spiritual and business mentors.”
What is interesting about the sermon above, as Chris Rosebrough reviews it on his program ‘Fighting for the Faith‘, he clearly exposes the prosperity cult theology (and predatory nature) that Mesiti appears to have fine-tuned from his association with long term “pastoral” friends and mentors, Phil Pringle and Brian Houston.
It’s well worth listening to the sermon review to prove that this man is STILL used as an example to follow by Brian Houston. And because his life is a “success story”, one can assume that’s what qualifies people like Pat Mesiti to be pastors in the C3 and Hillsong prosperity cults.
PROGRAM SEGMENTS:
• Ed Young’s Hee Haw Sermon
• Bishop Tudor Bismark’s The Big Fish Anointing
• Jim Bakker’s Prophecy Fear Mongering For Dollars
• Sermon Review: The Joseph Generation by Pat Mesiti
Source: Chris Rosebrough, Hee Haw, Fighting for the Faith, http://www.piratechristian.com/fightingforthefaith/2015/5/hee-haw, Published 01/05/2015. (Accessed 06/01/2015.)
Clearly there is NOTHING regenerate or “restored” in Pat Mesiti’s life. The signs were there even before he was charged with assaulting his wife. So why on earth would Hillsong/C3 hold onto him? Why would Hillsong and C3 have him (unbiblically) re-instated as a pastor when there are so many others who could easily replace him?
There has to be more to this than meets the eye.
NOTE: SCREEN GRAB TAKEN ON 18/01/2016.
Hillsong Church Watch 
another hillsong pastor has left, SImon Gibbes of Hillsong Bermondsey in London England has gone. no one knows why.
he was from New Zealand, he was originally a professional tennis player.
“I find these public comments about Pat to be unloving.” Joel A’Bell
Yet you don’t find Brian Houston’s treatment of his dad’s sex abuse victims to be unloving?
Hypocrite.
Troaz
Why do you feel the need to attack? Are you just continuing a vicious circle?
I will pray for you and pray that God may reveal to you your gifts that he has given you and where you can apply these gifts to encourage, strengthen and support others even when you have determined they are in the wrong.
TROAZ is CORRECT.
He probably feels the need to respond the way he does for the same reason Jesus turned the tables on the money changers and whipped the tar out of them. Injustice, greed and hypocrisy etc, you know, the stuff that shouldnt be present in God’s house.
That little worm (a’bell) should support the VICTIMS – not the PERPETRATORS.
If he cant support the victims, he should keep his trap shut.
Jesus would support the victims.
Paul would rebuke the corrupt Mesiti & Houston publicly.
Only someone deceived under the spell of the hillstench cult would defend them.
Amen Captain…
Fred said:
“Why do you feel the need to attack?”
Why do you feel compelled to comment here, Fred? Are you a lonely and pathetic individual who has aspired to little in this life and has achieved even less? Have you been so starved of attention that you have a compulsive need to seek it out in any quarter that you can? Do you realise that you come across on this site as being just like a neurotic and meddlesome neighbour – one who is perennially peering through blinds and snooping about as they tut-tut their disapproval to an imaginary audience?
“I will pray for you …”
You should save your prayers for yourself, Fred. You should be asking God to set you free from your deep-seated insecurities and your crippling lack of self-esteem. If He is gracious enough to bring you to a place that you have never known – one where you have real self-respect and where you stand on the firm foundation of Christ alone – then you may be in a position to formulate sound judgements. Until then you would do well to keep your worthless opinions, twisted logic, and crass ignorance to yourself.
@Fred, Christianity isn’t for the weakhearted. Many of Jesus *DISCIPLES* turned away in John 6 where you can read about it. Maybe you need to go find yourself a weak-kneed, eye-winking religion.
“Why do you feel the need to attack?”
Why do YOU feel the need to support A’Bell, Houston & Hillsong, fred?
These men are wicked. They are deceiving untold thousands of Christians. Even worse, they are doing it all while taking their money. What “ethics” do you find in that, fred? Their worldly ideology and lies need to be met with verbal force. Being “mr nice” won’t get you anywhere when dealing with snakes who will never give in to simple pleas appealing to reason or begging them to change.
Fred some advice for you…. Here is your problem…..
You need to get your priorities straight. Your priorities are all out of whack guy.
Wow! What a response!
I had a dream about the ferocious attack that would come. The devil is alive and well in this website.
I couldn’t have predicted so much of a reaction with such ferociousness.
MHD – amazing what you have said. Father I pray for MHD. I pray that you may bless him/her in their life significantly and that they will come to an even deeper understanding of how much you care for and love them.
Father I also pray for Chip. I pray that he/she will be even more bold in their prays for Hillsong, specifically the leaders of Hillsong and that Chip will come to an even deeper understanding that you are in charge of changing Hillsong – not us mere humans – and that you are the only one that creates change in this world through Chip’s prayer. May you also bless him/her even more because of his/her significant sacrifice to you.
Lastly I pray for Big Tex that she/he will experience deep love from members of his/her church family. Your love through them to Big Tex that will knock Big Tex off his/her feet.
I pray this in Jesus name.
“I had a dream about the ferocious attack that would come.”
Did you really??? You are falsely spiritual. Proven in that you lack all discernment.
“The devil is alive and well in this website.”
Why do you ignore the devil at Hellsong??? The devil is not here, because the devil does not tell the truth about Brian Houston, but this website does.
@Fred – disagreement isn’t the main issue here, although it is a significant one. The problem Fred, is really spiritual blindness – the fact that you can’t even see the error of Houston and Hillsong speaks volumes about your lack of true spiritual discernment.
Some of the posters here are hard hitting, and for good reason too – there are enough false prophets who are making “false profits” from God’s people, and we don’t need any more of them. Wasn’t it Jesus Himself who warned us to “beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing (shepherd’s garb) but inwardly they are ravenous wolves”??? (Matthew 7:15+)
Don’t you see just how this applies to the Houston/Hillsong entity? Houston has covered up for sexual sinners, and at the same time embraced a whole train load of false teachers, mainly at Hillsong conferences. He has made lots of money from the false prosperity ‘gospel’, and in one TV interview some years ago, posited that he and Bobbie were “property investors” who just hapened to contract their ‘management services’ to Hillsong. Is that a qualification for church leadership? Property investment?
The Houstons have their own ‘tax dodge’ setup called LMI, which holds a number of propertys for their ‘ministry’ and it’s all tax free, while their fawning constituents run rabid each week, giving tithes and paying taxes on everything – but not the leaders? Sounds like the kind of ‘arrangements’ that many cult leaders use to avoid taxes and public scrutiny – no taxes paid, equals no paper trail…
They claim not to take wages from Hillsong (proof please, B&B!) but then again, if they took wages and other sundries (the run off from Hillsong music for instance) and began using all of that ca$h for property investment decades ago, then I’m not surprised that they don’t “take wages” any more – they don’t need to as they’ve amassed enough wealth to sit very comfortably on the Hillsong throne… with their beachside mansion, palatial home and other “investments”.
How stupid can those claiming to be ‘God’s people’ actually be? Wake up Fred and smell the roses, after all, your tithes paid for them…
Welcome back Apollo!
“I will pray for you and pray that God may reveal to you your gifts that he has given you and where you can apply these gifts to encourage, strengthen and support others even when you have determined they are in the wrong.”
Why are you talking as though there ‘is something wrong’ with THE POSTERS for being able to recognize evil & for responding to evil. These are Bereans.
Dude your focus is off base. You need to look at THE SOURCE of ALL the problems which you neglect to discuss (Hillsong). Those are the real problem, not forum posters. Seriously.
“Welcome back Apollo!”
Yes it is good seeing you back Apollo. Have missed reading your posts and insights.
Hello CW and Doc Gospel – it seems that ‘troll season’ isn’t quite over yet, doesn’t it???
Yes Apollo correct. The parade of internet trolls never gets tired of showing up and with plenty of ignorance.
“From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force.”
Evidently it will also require force to keep all these trolls at bay. It’s not time for anyone to put away the Bible Blunderbusses yet. As long as trolls keep coming and endorsing false teachers, someone needs to stand prepared to defend the truth and blast monster holes into the false teachings.
So Chip
“Being “mr nice” won’t get you anywhere when dealing with snakes who will never give in to simple pleas appealing to reason or begging them to change.”
Are you saying that Jesus is Mr nice? Praying for others is what God asks us to do. Effectively what you have said is writing off God and his ability to change others.
It’s not up to us to work in their lives to see change but for us to pray that God will work in their lives to make real change happen.
Yes or No?
With CHILD SEX ABUSE, there are only ever 2 sides to choose from.
The VICTIM’S SIDE or the PERPETRATOR’S SIDE.
The Hillswrong devotees, from BRIAN HOUSTON down have chosen to side with the perpetrators.
FRANK HOUSTON AND MESITI ARE PERPS of ABUSE.
FRED, YOU KNOWINGLY SUPPORT THOSE ON THE SIDE OF THE ABUSERS.
JESUS IS ON THE SIDE OF THE VICTIM EVERY TIME.
FRED, you and those like you are on the opposite side of the argument to JESUS. You aught reconsider your position before it’s too late.
SIDING WITH THE PERPS WILL PROBABLY RESULT IN A “DEPART FROM ME- I NEVER KNEW YOU” SCENARIO.
“FRED, YOU KNOWINGLY SUPPORT THOSE ON THE SIDE OF THE ABUSERS.”
This Fred person seems very content with himself to side with the perpetrators. He thinks these here are the ones who need prayer, lol. A very misguided and confused individual this Fred person truly is.
How can a true work of the Holy Spirit be distinguished from that which is false?
From a careful study of 1 John 4, the great theologian and pastor Jonathan Edwards was able to identify five distinguishing characteristics of the Holy Spirit’s work. In short, a true work of the Holy Spirit:
Exalts the true Christ
Opposes Satan’s interests
Points people to the Scriptures
Elevates truth
Results in love for God and others.
Fred, I think Brian Houston and the Hillstench crashes badly on all.
Exalts the true Christ – nope, they exalt “another Jesus”. The pop psychology, prosperity Jesus who turns a blind eye the child abuse and chases after filthy lucre.
Opposes Satan’s interests – nope, plays into satan’s hands by pitching a false gospel that appeals to the baser elements of the fallen human nature such as greed, pride and lust. Does not condemn the blatant sin of homosexuality but dances around it thereby furthering satan’s interests.
Points people to the Scriptures – nope, points people to false teachers, false doctrine and scripture taken out of context and from spurious new age paraphrases.
Elevates truth – nope, covers the truth up at every opportunity when it will damage the hillstench brand.
Results in love for God and others – nope, they love themselves and those just like them. They are only interested in others who can help them further their cause which is not the cause of Christ.
I like Jesus’ take better, he said that the fruit of a thing will tell you the nature of it. Unless you choose to believe a lie, it is obvious that the Houston/Hillsong fruit is rotten to the core.
Hi Fred – you’ve just endorsed the ‘Churchwatcher’ board and those who post here…
“Exalts the true Christ” – the regulars here have always exalted Christ over Houston’s warped and twisted view of Jesus. His ‘christ’ is really an ‘antichrist’ projection, formed in his own mind – it is not word based!
“Opposes Satan’s interests” – Satan’s “interests” include the spreading of false doctrines and false practices such as ‘tithing’ (see http://www.tithing.com) Strange, isn’t it how Houston seems to promote Satan’s interests while we are busily exposing them – and him!?
“Points people to the Scriptures” – scripture is quoted on these sites until it is coming outof our ears, and usually incontext. If things are taken out of context, then the CW pwoplw will correct that. I have seen them do it many times.
“Elevates truth” – the truths of the Bible and the Gospel are expressed here on a daily basis. Just go back to the archives and see for yourself.
“Results in love for God and others” – the love of God constrains us to tell people the truth concerning Hill$ong and it’s whole bevy of falsehoods.
While there are some non essentials that various people may disagree over, the general thrust of this and other CW boards, is to expose error where ever it may be, and to replace that error with Bible truth.
Your take on ‘God’s love’ seems to be more of a human affection or emotion. Love from God’s perspective transcends beyond the soul of man and enters into a spiritual realm, wherein the love of God is manifested in a person, that of the Lord Jesus Christ.
It was God’s love that sent Christ to die for our sins, to in effect, redeem mankind from the curse of the Law, and to establish us on that rock like foundation, which the apostle Paul said “no other man can lay”:
“10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,…
13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.…”
1 Corinthians 3:10 – 13
How does Brian Houston’s ‘gospel’ of materialism and worldliness compare to the true Gospel, which is Heaven sent??? Looks to me like Brian’s little ‘kingdom’ of “wood hay and straw” are going to burn…
“From a careful study of 1 John 4, the great theologian and pastor Jonathan Edwards was able to identify five distinguishing characteristics of the Holy Spirit’s work”
How about a brief review based on Matthew 7:16-20 by that even Greater Theologian Jesus? Here we go:
1. “Exalts the true Christ”
Brian quote: “You cant be right with God until your pocketbook is right with God.”
2. “Opposes Satan’s interests”
You mean like Brian giving reprobate Mark Driscoll a global soundboard right after Driscoll’s fall so Driscoll could quickly re-emerge on the scene and deceive even more people? All while Driscoll’s church was still reeling to recover?
3. “Points people to the Scriptures”
Please point us to some inerrant biblical teachings by Brian Houston on-line for review. I dont think you’ll find any (amazingly even after 40 years of “successful churching”)
4. “Elevates truth”
Wow theres a toughie. You mean like covering up the truth at the Royal Commission? Or Brian deleting erroneous tweets? Or his daughter-in-law deleting nasty instagram pictures? Or Brian trying to delete his book “You need more Money.” Or Hillsong quickly removing the risque SHAMEful Night video? Or Brian teaching “Christians and muslims serve the same God” then retracting that blunder? Or Hillsong’s Gay Couple denying what Brian Houston said? Lots of “cover-up”, not “elevation.” Or how about all these phoney words “from God” by Brian & Bobbie? NOPE, NO truth in all those things.
http://coercioncode.com/2015/08/14/hillsongs-gay-couple-contradicts-brian-houston/
5. “Results in love for God and others.”
You think Brian Houston labeling ALL his critics (both secular and Christian) as “wicked” is love for God and others?
Amongst all the prayers youre making, the one youre missing is praying for your own discernment very unfortunately which I am sorry to say.
Father I pray for Pat Mesiti in this difficult time in his life. I pray that he will come to a better understanding of you and a deeper understanding of your love for him in this time of turmoil that he is experiencing due to his own actions.
in Jesus name.
Father I pray for Pat Mesiti in this difficult time of his life. I pray that he will come to a deep understanding of your love for him. I pray for his wife that she will also draw closer to you in what must be difficult circumstances.
In Jesus Name.
Fred,
I notice you don’t actually respond to any direct questions put to you, particularly around what your thoughts are concerning Houston’s appalling treatment of his father’s victims, and robbing church goers through deceptive conduct. Are you going to respond to any of those types of questions or can we simply conclude that you’re just here to troll?
Fred,
please pray for the prostitutes that Pat treated like fresh meat. Were they victims of CSA I wonder? Were any underage? Many ARE you know.
What will happen to them? Read the symptoms of CSA on the the Royal Commission website. In all probability they won’t have any holidays on the Amalfi coast like Pat and his wife. They will probably develop STD’s , heroin addiction and mental illness from chilhood sexual abuse and continuing life long exploitation by people like Pat Mesiti.
Be like Jesus Fred, and have a heart for the broken people, the adult children of CSA not the people who have destroyed and exploited them. Use your gifts for the needy people first. Please save your prayers for them.
Thanks Debra that is good advice and I will.
Also though, why save prays for only the broken? We are all sinners. God doesn’t rank us from 1 to 10. Pat deserves pray just as much as anyone else does.
Dear Fred,
I’m so glad to hear you feel compassion for Pat’s victims. There are also some male victims of a paedophile masquerading as a pastor in a sydney church who are still suffering terribly and, unlike the Catholic and Anglican victims, have been denied compensation or any sort of help!!!! Can you believe it ?! It’s a very rich church too!!
Please also pray for the male victims of this criminal ‘church’ … And oh …the hard evil church people who turned their backs on these poor broken victims
Oh and Fred did you read the Royal Commission paper on the lifelong mental emotional, spiritual and relational illness resulting from child rape? I know you did- your posts are so about love and forgiveness. Your heart must have broken upon reading it.
Your heart’s in the right place Fred and you may be able to work with others as they minister prayer AND practical help to the victims. People like you are needed to be a voice to the victims of institutional CSA. A heart of love for the horribly wounded who are denied justice and compensation. That’s you Fred!
Keep in touch –
Fred, from insider information I received today, it appears that Pat MESSiti has done a runner. It appears that he has choofed off to the US and is dodging the court case-not facing up to the Australian Justice system.Your friend MESSiti has run like a sewer rat leaving a sinking ship.Fred, just do a little check up with MESSiti’s inner circle.
Yes Fred, it must be difficult for the wife if the husband who claims to be a christian, becomes heavily intoxicated and then assaults his wife so savagely that the police become involved.
theausgaz – leaving your comment in moderation for his family’s sake. As to his “dodging” a court case, his passport would have been taken from him had he been considered a flight risk.
Theausgaz, he is still entitled to recieve God’s grace and mercy just like you and me regardless of if he ‘does a runner’ or not.
Who are we to judge?
Father I pray for theausgaz that he will come to a deeper understanding of your love for him so that he can pass on your love to others, even to the worst of the worst of mankind that he may come across. As your Word says “we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of You”.
In Jesus Name.
Fred, it’s not a question of Ausgaz loving this person or that person or grace, it’s a matter of Mesiti palming himself off as a big Man of God accurately teaching the Scriptures, when in reality he’s deceiving many people and leading them down a wrong path. He does not teach Christ, he teaches the worship of money and dedicating yourself to coveting and idols.
Ausgaz didn’t judge anyone, the Bible did. We are to compare those supposedly within the Church to what the Bible says Christian character should be. This is for our own good. So we don’t follow after the wrong people.
“Mark and AVOID them.’ What do you think that means, Fred?
churches have become businesses, churches are run like companies which are only focused on numbers.
the shepherds don’t care for their flock, they are far too busy promoting and marketing their ministry.
the shepherds are only interested in the sheep’s hard earned cash and their tithes and offerings.
they don’t care about their souls.
the future of churches is going back to meeting is houses. the prosperity gospel has destroyed the whole church all around the world.
1 peter 3:18
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1 corinthians 15:33
Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
2 timothy 3:13
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
so many people want to be rich famous and wealthy in the church and they are willing to use anyoneone who will help them get there.
so many people are taken in by the lies of these false teachers.
there are 2 things that always bring most pastors down is thier love of money and sexual sin.
there are so many church leaders who have been qualified by men, yet they havent been qualified by the holy spirit.
luke 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
john 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
galatians 3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Fred: “I had a dream about the ferocious attack that would come. The devil is alive and well in this website.”
That is a probably the most cultish statement a Hillsong supporter has made for quite a while.
Translation: To support/ praise Hillsong is to support Christ.
To expose/ criticize Hillsong is to support Satan.
A testimony from someone who came out of Charismaniac churches: http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/cultsandcharismatic.html
His 1st church sounded like C3church.and second church like Hillsong.
So……..this is not allowed then?
http://pulpitandpen.org/2016/01/28/church-in-a-strip-club-god-said-to/
What do you think, Fred.
As well-stated at The Museum of Idolatry when they reported this nonsense (then Pulpit & Pen), “there are so many obvious contradictions to the written word of God that we lost count.”
I thought they were meeting in a room next door. Not actually in the strip club.
See the bigger picture Fred – “Notice, God told her to do this. Then she got a prophecy.”
If you believe that, we’ve got “a bridge in Brooklyn” we’re willing to sell you.
“The Bible tells us that God has spoken, infallibly, finally, and authoritatively through people He chose as mediators of His revelation. This is summarized in Hebrews 1:1, 2: “God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.” The Bible further tells us that Christ’s words to us were confirmed through eyewitnesses, the apostles. Hebrews 2:2, 3 says, “For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty, how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard.” The apostles were responsible for giving us the New Testament that constitutes Christ’s authoritative words to His church—the revealed truths that remain binding on all.”
“In this article let us consider this question: Can a believer receive special revelations that become God’s personal, revealed will for his or her life? Many believe that this special revelation is real—that God provides it today. I contend that they have not thought through some of the concept’s problematic implications. In this article: I will defend the idea that God, since the days of the apostles, has been ruling providentially rather than through further specific revelation—whether through authoritative mediators or directly to individuals.”
Continue reading here: http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue98.htm
Kenneth Copeland is probably one of the big reasons this words from God heresy has taken root and so deeply. Him and his speaking in tongues that has spread like wildfire throughout the Church. Just one man. But so much heresy. That is a big aspect of the problem with all these celebrity “impastors”. They do or say or teach something and it takes off like wildfire because of the false status/reputation they have undeservedly attained to.
To make things worse, once people are convinced of some teaching, it becomes very difficult to convince them otherwise. This is why many of us have had to spend to much time studying, discussing, and debating. Trying to decide what all the things are that we need to “unlearn” that has been so deeply implanted by false teachers.
So,
Prophetic words from God are false?
Visions are false?
Twitching while experiencing the Holy Spirit is false?
Dreams are false?
Feelings of the Holy Spirit are false?
Being given ‘pictures’ are false?
Excuse my ignorance…
Experience trumps theology in your biblical worldview? You’re not really interested in biblical integrity, are you Fred?
And where does it stop Fred?
Case in point: http://billmuehlenberg.com/2014/06/04/yes-we-affirm-the-inerrancy-of-experience/
Yes, We Affirm the Inerrancy of Experience
In days gone by a church or denomination or Christian ministry would have a statement of faith. Core beliefs held to were listed, so that people knew where they stood. These may not be so much in vogue nowadays, but if they still are, they may not look like most of the older ones.
For example, most of the older ones began with a statement about the authority of Scripture, one that featured a high view of the Bible, and/or even mentioned the inerrancy of Scripture. Well, a lot of that has now changed. You see, most churches today – whether they actually state it or not – would have high on their lists the inerrancy of experience.
That is, waves of Christians today believe that experience should trump everything, and be the final arbiter of all truth and morality. Thus personal experience should even trump the Word of God, if there is a clash between the two. If a person’s experience does not quite jibe with the clear teachings of Scripture, well guess what? Most of these compromised Christians will dump Scripture and run with their experiences.
Oh, and in case you don’t know what the word inerrancy means, it simply refers to the fact that something is without error. In the past Christians held up an inerrant Bible as the sole arbiter of what is right and wrong, true and false. It was held up as the standard, the norm, the absolute to which we look.
I say ‘in the past’ because regrettably today many believers actually elevate their own feelings and experiences above Scripture. They think that their own personal subjective experiences and feelings offer the last word on what they should believe and how they should live.
So they have effectively written a new statement of faith, which might as well begin with this solid affirmation:
1. We affirm the complete inerrancy of our personal experience.
And it is not just individual Christians who are now living this way, but entire churches and denominations are doing the same. They have decided that experience is king, and whatever does not correlate with their own experience must be changed or jettisoned.
I have seen this happen far too often. Thus churches will change their policy on things like marriage and divorce simply to accommodate all the folks in the pews getting divorced. Instead of letting Scripture determine these matters, they allow what is happening in the pews to be the final decider.
Therefore personal experience today sits in judgment on God and His Word. When the Bible does not line up with our own experience, then instead of changing our experience, we change the Word of God. This, quite simply, is utter and complete idolatry and sin. And we will be judged for it.
Let me offer you a crystal clear example of this which has just surfaced. It has to do with a California pastor who has radically changed his church’s teachings because of what his own son had done. The story begins this way:
A Baptist church in California has voted to welcome the gay community despite going against the Southern Baptist Convention’s views on homosexuality. The New Heart Community Church in La Mirada, CA faced a difficult decision in early 2014 when lead pastor Danny Cortez told the congregation that his son, Drew, had come out – and that he himself no longer agreed with the church’s teachings on homosexuality. A month later the church said in a statement that it would investigate the issues surrounding same-sex marriage and vote on May 18 whether to dismiss Cortez or not.
New Heart’s congregation elected to establish an in-depth theological study of same-sex marriage, so that congregants for themselves might more deeply discern both their own theological views concerning same-sex marriage and their willingness, whatever their views, to invite same-sex couples into fellowship, communion, and leadership in the church. On the date scheduled, the congregation took a vote and elected to keep Cortez in his post and change its official stance on homosexuality.
There you go folks: personal experience now trumps theology, which in turn trumps Scripture. We revise our theology to accommodate our (in this case) sinful experiences. That in turn of course leads to a revision of Scripture itself. This theological and biblical revisionism is now at epidemic proportions in so much of the church.
And the truth is, this was not actually a “difficult decision” for the church – or at least it should not have been. The Bible is completely clear on the sin of homosexuality, and the church should have done the loving – and biblical – thing: offered help, counsel and warning to this wayward young man, and not cave in, bless his rebellion and lust, and turn the Word of God on its head.
Now I have already had people ask me what I would do in such a situation. Well, the answer is clear: I certainly would not rewrite the church teachings on this, nor rewrite the Bible, just to get along with even my own son. The most loving thing I could do would be to tell him he does not have to be homosexual, and that there is genuine change and freedom to be found in Christ.
But I go into all that in a lot more detail elsewhere, so please have a read of this: billmuehlenberg.com/2013/06/16/love-is-not-the-same-as-acceptance/
The pastor went on to say in a statement, “So now, we will accept the LGBT community even though they may be in a relationship. We will choose to remain the body of Christ and not cast judgement.” Let me translate that for you: “So now, we have embraced fully the homosexual agenda, and thrown the Bible in the rubbish heap. We will no longer call sinful what the Bible calls sinful. Instead, we will accept, embrace and promote what the Bible calls an abomination.”
Scripture is perfectly clear that unrepentant homosexuals will not enter the Kingdom of heaven (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11). But this pastor and this church don’t seem to give a rip about this. They would rather have people wallow in degrading sinful lifestyles now, and spend eternity separated from God, than stand true to the Word of God.
Just to see how ludicrous all this is, just change the scenario around a bit. Suppose a pastor has a son who is a thief in the congregation, so they change the church – and Bible – teaching on theft to make him and others feel accepted and welcomed. Sound ridiculous? That is exactly what these churches are doing regarding homosexuality.
This my friends is utter apostasy and rebellion. This pastor and his congregation have declared war on God and his Word. One day they will stand before their Maker and their Judge and give a full account of this treasonous idolatry and wilful rebellion. May God have mercy on them, and rescue them from their demonic deception before it is too late.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/02/baptist-church-pastor-gay-son_n_5432880.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
You seem have issues with too many things. Almost everything presents a problem to you. You believe what you want to believe, while trashing many Scriptures to do it.
Meaning Fred.
Referring to Fred.
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
So if this is true then isn’t it simply a matter of ‘testing the spirit?
Testing the spirits means that one must know how to “examine the Scriptures.” Rather than accept every teaching, discerning Christians diligently study the Scriptures.
Jesus said in Mark 16:17-18: “These signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.
Speak in tongues, lay hands on, prophecy etc etc.
You saying these things are demonic?
Those signs were fulfilled by the apostles Fred. You’re cherry-picking scriptures, be careful not to do that.
Tongues are known languages, not all spoke in tongues as Paul clearly says. The Holy Spirit gives gifts as He desires to the edification of the church.
1 Cor. 12:7-11, “But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another different kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues. But all these work that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.”
1 Cor. 12:29-30, “Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?”
It’s quite obvious Fred. Not all speak in tongues because God doesn’t give the gift to everyone.
And why did you bring up laying on of hands? Did we ever mention that or say it’s demonic? Laying on of hands has no power in itself. Laying on of hands is only used by God when it is done in agreement with God’s Word.
“Pentecostal” signs & wonders in themselves mean nothing
Matt 7: 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Fred, Perhaps in your elevating experience above Scripture, you aught drink poison and let a brown snake bight you?
You dont seem to have any problem drinking the poison of the Hillswrong brood of vipers.
Per the laying on of hands which is so prevalent in Charismatic and Pentecostal churches today, one obvious place it’s not biblical is when someone like Benny Hinn blows air out of his mouth or waves his coat and people fall over being ‘slain in the Spirit’. Benny Hinn for one has proven time and time again that he is not from God, so his signs are not of God either. Benny Hinn and his ‘Holy Ghost machine gun’ are not Christian. Though as soon as people see this ‘slain in the Spirit’ sign, the majority of them automatically think the person doing the ‘slaying’ is a strong Christian leader that you’re supposed to do whatever they say (like tithe into their mutilgazillion dollar bank accounts, or ‘sow a seek’ to get your healing).
And Paul’s charge to Timothy comes to mind:
1 Timothy 5:21-22 “I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality. Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin.”
OK – So where does it start and where does it stop – or is it 50% Feeling and 50% Scripture?
Someone from the congregation getting up ‘giving a prophetic word’ based on what they have felt – is this from God or the Devil?
Praying and laying hands on some one to free them from addictions – do they also need to be belted over the head with a bible to get the 50% dose of Scripture as well? (Sarcasm intended)
Someone that gets a warm fuzzy Holy Spirit feeling while worshiping – No Scripture is being read – only singing. So is this the devil because it is a ‘feeling’ with no Scriptural back up.
Someone twitches while praying for someone else – God or the Devil?
Someone gets the shakes while worshiping? God the Devil or Parkinson’s?
Experience is a big part of it as well as Scripture – yes? The point is you can’t discern every little thing that goes on on a congregation – there is just too much going on.
Some times its God, Some times its the devil but most of the time its some thing in between, like emotions, psycho suggestion, mesmerizing, a whole heap of stuff. Spiritual placebo, power of suggestion, weak minded people being manipulated or what ever. Most of what I have seen in “pentecostal” churches is emotionalism, sad to say. I see such corruption in the practitioners that I am skeptical of anything labelled as being “of God” by these charlatans. I trust in Christ Jesus and His immutable Word, I dont need a sign.
@Saul Goodman,
Your speech speaks for itself. Someone filled with the Holy Spirit could not even begin to use the kind of language you employ. You are not a Christian by any stretch of the imagination.
@ Skipper – spot on. Saul Goodman’s comments has been “sin-binned”.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
I support everyone who thinks that Joel A’Bell is wrong and Mesiti should be somewhere other than in fellowship. Sin is sin and the guys stuffed their chances of being leaders because they were disobedient. Love him as a brother but don’t trust him or allow him to be in any leadership position whatsoever. It is not just an accident…they needed to plan the stuff they did. Joel is getting paid by Hillsong and so is complicitous and his opinion is worthless. Smith Wigglesworth said it very well: “If you get paid by someone you are beholden to them”. I would never allow those other guys to be anywhere near me. It is not just Houston, but Alun Davies is power hungry and nepotistic also. And there are heaps of others. I am sad for believers who love the Lord and are swayed by greed parading as claiming God’s blessing, and power parading as ‘I am your oversight’ and love of self not being covered up very well at all.