City of Grace, City of Grace Church, Crist, Judith, Judith Crist, Phoenix, Phoenix church, take-over, Terry Crist
Take-Over – a hostile, tyrannical, immoral, unethical, unbiblical or illegal way in which a ‘church’ schemes, re-brands and takes over another church. The move is usually presented as a surprise and often occurs when the members of the congregation, (whether they are the pastors, elders or laymen), have no say in the matter. The take-over is presented as the best way forward for the church. [Source]
This is a very accurate definition to describe how churches like Hillsong and C3 rebrand churches into their movement. The City of Grace Church has fallen prey to a Hillsong take-over. Terry and Judith Crist have been duped by Australia’s leading con artists and cult leaders Brian and Bobbie Houston.
This is the truth: Terry and Judith Crist have not done their homework.
Terry and Judith have believed Hillsong at face value, not knowing the corruption, scandal and deceit that has made the Hillsong movement what it is today. They have deliberately ignored their bad teaching and all the information out there on Hillsong exposing their corruption. (Have they even bothered to wade through the evidence of the Royal Commission, exposing how Brian Houston attempted to cover up his fathers paedophilia? Do they know that the Royal Commission have requested NSW Police to investigate Brian Houston’s cover-up?)
Brian claims clergy privilege to prevent police investigation?
The Royal Commission Report on Houston, CLC/Hillsong & the AOG/ACC
Evidence, Fact Files & testimonies exposing Brian Houston at the Royal Commission
In fact Terry deliberately lied about Hillsong’s past (see video below). Here you can see Terry Crist besotted by the idea that his church is now a part of Hillsong. There is much to say about this clip which we will talk about in future articles.
This is not the first time Hillsong has pulled a take-over on churches. They’re getting better at conditioning people to get churches on “family” with their movement. Don’t be fooled by Hillsong’s enticements. Read about other Hillsong take-overs.
Hillsong insider: the GCC “merge” “was surely and truly a “plotted corporate takeover””
Rosebrough’s interviews with ex-Hillsong insiders Elisabeth & Tanya Levin
Edit 27/02/2016: People are questioning if it is ethical or remotely Christian to behave in such secrecy in church take-overs. This article exposes how secrecy is a Hillsong trademark and looks at this form of secrecy from a Christian world view.
Hillsong Insider (Part 3): “Secrecy is a Hillsong trademark”
“I have to say on another level, I feel like we have the strongest team that we’ve ever had in the history of our church . We’ve always had great people leading but there’s something unique about the combination, the chemistry, the connection, the cohesion of the team that we have right here at our church during this season and I’m so grateful for that.
But in the face of all of that, can I say that I still believe that God has so much more for us. You know, the success of our church is never truly evaluated by how many people gather for weekend worship or by how much good we’re doing in the community. Our success must be evaluated by how many people are still living far from God and what we’re doing in response to that.
I know some churches measure their seating capacity but we’ve decided to measure our sending capacity – our capacity for empowerment and engagement and enlargement by the grace of God.
What are we doing to change the world? What are we really doing to change the world? From day one I have dreamt of building a church that is centred on Jesus, filled with the Spirit, engaged in the community and focused on the nations. The kind of church that is attractive and winsome and kind and loving and gracious . The kind of the church that makes the gospel so compelling that people,find it hard to not fall in love with Jesus. I want to be the kind of church that makes it difficult for people to go to hell from the valley of the sun.
I want us to be the kind of of church that if you want to go to hell, you’ve got to go from Vegas. The kind of church that presents the gospel in such a compelling way. That when people collide with the grace of God in us, their response is to fall in love with Jesus that we love, this Jesus that has radically changes us. The kind of church with a welcome home spirit.
I dream of being a part of a church that puts a fresh face on an old message, a church takes timeless truths and presents them in a way that is relevant. And because of that we can continue to become that church – incrementally. We can continue to take ground just like we have, inch by inch by inch. Or we can leap ahead to not just reach thousands but by the grace of God, to reach tens of thousands. To change cities and neighbourhoods. To go from a local church to becoming a part of a global movement and all of that has positioned us for the greatest step of expansion that we have ever taken in the history of our church .
After eight years of general conversations, followed by the last two years of very specific and serious considerations, followed by a time of seeking God, both with our board and a few of our key team members, I am so excited to announce to you today that City of Grace is becoming the sixteenth global location of Hillsong Church.
Today we become Hillsong Church Phoenix. Today. Today. Today.
You can be seated, I’ve got to finish this. Judith and I believe, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that God has called us to this. Can I tell you that this… I feel stronger about this than anything God has ever said to me, apart from marrying Judith.
Happy Valentines Day, baby.
I did not come to Phoenix with a word this strong. I came to Phoenix on a general impression, a sense of God moving. We are stepping into the future with the clearest word God has spoken to me in my life, second to God speaking to me to marry Judith. Happy Valentines Day, baby.
We’re not joining Hillsong Church as a matter of survival, but a matter of calling. And this is not like any other merger or adoption or joining that Hillsong Church has ever been a part of before, in fact today history is unfolding here in Phoenix. And history unfolded 18 hours ahead of us last night in Sydney, Australia, as the news was broken there. Judith and I are not leaving, Judith and I are staying right here as the lead pastors of Hillsong Phoenix. We’re digging in deeper, we’re standing up taller, we’re seeing clearer and we’re reaching farther by the grace of God.
Pastors Brian and Bobibie are going to step in as the senior pastors here and we’re going to serve as your lead pastors. Now you may wonder, why we are we doing this in light of all that we’ve accomplished? Let me share with you five reasons and this is the core of this, please, please hear me carefully.
Number one, Judith and I feel called, called to serve pastors Brian and Bobbie’s vision and at the same time, we feel called to lead a church in Phoenix, and God in His good providence has provided a way for us to do both of those things.
Second, Hillsong Church is our tribe. Our family. Our people. And as with any family you just want to do life with the people that you love. We’ve been so honored to be a part of the Hillsong family but it’s always, like, you know, describing your relatives as being one step removed . And as wonderful as that has been, this collapses that and we have the freedom to interact, and to engage, and to spend our lives with the people that we love.
Number three, I believe that this will position our church to serve more people with the gospel. I believe that Hillsong Phoenix wills serve this city and region well, and I believe by the grace of God, we are going to reproduce campuses right here throughout the valley and wherever God’s good grace leads us with greater strength, greater focus and greater ability.
Number four, this will provide a home for our leaders, home in a global family, home in a movement. Current leaders and young leaders emerging into their purpose won’t just be a part of an independent church, autonomous church, they will be part of a movement. And wherever they go on the planet, they’ll have family, they’ll have connections and by the good grace of God, they’ll have a future.
And finally number five, I believe this will accelerate the work of God in our nation. I believe there are a lot of churches that are just doing their own thing that would be better served by becoming a part of something bigger and I’m prayerful that through our obedience, that others might be inspired to stop doing life alone, to stop leading independently and living as an island to themselves and that they might step into being a part of something so that we can see greater unity in the church in our cities and in our nation and across the planet, to the glory of God.
Real quickly, let me talk about who pastors Brian and Bobbie are, for the few people who may not be familiar with them. And let me give you some accurate information, so that you don’t read the distortions that are readily available.
Brian and Bobbie Houston founded Christian Life Centre in Sydney in 1983 as a congregation of about 45 people. Later on in 1999, they changed the name to Hillsong Church, following the rise of the worship music and its global expression. From those humble beginnings, Hillsong Church has now become a congregation, a church of 16 congregations or locations around the world, with 150 weekend services being held this very week, serving a congregation of over 100,000 people. It is listed by Christianity Today as one of the ten most influential churches of the previous century and Hillsong Church is just getting started. Newsmax listed as the sixth largest church in America and there are only two locations in America before today. Each location is considered to be a room in the global house, with all the rooms making up one house, so you’ll hear that language again and again. We are a room in a house. We’re a congregation, we are a location, but in a bigger context, we are a part of a greater whole. And every single room has a lead pastor couple leading it, and then pastors Brian and Bobbie are the senior pastors over it.
Let me tell you who they are. Pastor Brian is a seasoned leader . He’s respected as a leader of leaders around the planet. He led a movement of 1100 churches in Australia called the Australian Christian Churches for about 12 years. He is the pastor to many of the leading leaders of our generation, who may not be a part of Hillsong per se but they look to him for leadership and guidance. He’s a true apostle. He wouldn’t use that term but I’ll describe him that way. He and Bobbie are apostles and prophets and they’re leading a movement of local congregations being served by lead couples and the teams that support their visionary direction.
I first met them in 1994. We were in Africa together. My life was radically touched, I came home and told Judith. I said, “I met a couple unlike anybody I’ve ever met before”. I said, “let me tell you first of all Brian is the happiest man on the planet”, he really is.
Second, they really love the church! It’s not a duty or an obligation. They love building the lives of people. Third, these guys really believe they can change the world. And history has proven that they can. And I told Judith 22 years ago, “I feel like we have much to learn from them”.
22 years later, I feel like I have as much to learn from them now as when I first met them. And can I say to you that under their leadership I can stand to my full stature in God and there’s so much headroom above me that I can keep growing and maturing myself. I don’t have to crouch down under their leadership to be less than who I am, I can stand there under the grace of God and I can be what God has called me to be without having to shrink to fit into some other box.
I want to encourage you to trust us, trust us. I know that those are cheap and easy words but if the fruit of our lives, mine and Judith’s, if the fruit of this church – stay with me, we’ve got leaders getting in place right now, this isn’t a church split, these are leaders stepping out to serve communion in just a moment.
Awkward time guys!
Trust me! If, if, if you see the fruit of our lives, if you know that we live in this neighborhood and we serve in this neighborhood, and the fruit of what God has called us to do is expressed in this neighborhood, and throughout the valley, you’ll know that the future is a continuation of the present, even though it’s a world in and of itself. I want to encourage you to trust pastors Brian and Bobbie as I trust them. They’re some of the most kind, affirming and genuine leaders that you’ll ever meet in life. And they’re all about empowering people to be who God has called them to be.
I’d like to do something before we conclude and go to communion here. I want to just give you the mission statement and then I want you to hear from Brian and Bobbie for a moment.
Here’s the new mission statement for Hillsong Phoenix, it’s the same mission statement for Hillsong Church world-wide, our mission now is “to reach and influence the world by building a large Christ-centred, bible-based church, changing mind sets and empowering people to lead and impact every sphere of influence”.
And our mandate as a church, to the broader body of Christ is now to champion the cause of local churches everywhere. We want to be a resource to the world around us and to church in North America and globally. And with that, I want you to hear a few short words from our new senior pastors today. Watch the screen.
Brian: “Well, to Terry and Judith and to everybody there at Hillsong Phoenix. We are so excited, and you are welcome! We’re very excited that of course your pastors are continuing to be the lead pastors of your church and I think, on the ground, day by day, week by week, you’ll still feel like it’s got the same warmth and you’ll have the same sense of vision. The only difference is, you’re part of a bigger global family. And of course we are now involved as well, as senior pastors. We’re senior pastors of many rooms but one house. And I just pray and I believe that the days ahead for all us are going to be amazing. One of the things we have great joy in, is the signs in our foyers saying “welcome home”. And I would say to all of you, “welcome home” and I pray you come with us on this journey and you feel like it’s home and that you, as you lean into Terry and Judith as lead pastors and into our bigger world, that you’ll continue to see God doing great things in your life, in your family, in your endeavours and in your church. We love you”.
Bobbie: “Amen, amen, and I just want to say how much we love you guys. We love you, Terry and Judith and you know, for a number of year snow, you’ve leant your hearts into us and our heart leans towards you and we really are excited. I know Brian gave expression to that, and we’re truly excited about what this represents and the adventure ahead and the road that’s ahead and so looking forward to doing life with you and ah, umm, you know, celebrate because it’s aha, awesome days ahead for everyone. Amen
Brian: “Amen, the first thing I’m going to do is, Terry? I’m going to fatten you up a bit and then I won’t find you so convicting.”
Bobbie: “We love you guys, you’re the best.”
I want to ask you in closing to join us in four ways.
Number one, by praying for us.
Number two, I want to encourage you to join us by leaning in. If you’ve been an infrequent attendee, come on! Become a part of the family and become a regular weekend attendee. If you’re part of a weekend service then become part of a connect group. And you’re part of a connect group, join in and start serving on the weekend but whatever you’re doing, I want yo encourage you to lean in and even further, even stronger.
Third, I want go ask you to make a one year commitment to journey with us. Just follow us, watch the fruit for one year, but even more walk with us, for the next year.
And then finally, I want to invite you to join us this coming Wednesday night on our Mesa campus where we’ll have what we call, heart and soul. And I’m going to share a little bit, you’ll hear some more from pastors Brian and Bobbie, and then we’re just going to take questions. And so, we’ll answer a lot of the questions you may have. But let me say this in closing, and then I’m going to change the game plan and we’re going to dismiss in a few minutes. I’m going to ask the host to stay at the rear of the auditorium and as you leave, you can take communion on your way out. And so let me say in closing, we are not entering a season of transition. This is one single step into the future. We are not slowly segwaying. This week, new signage will go up. This week, all new printed collateral will roll out, I’ve been working on this for quite some time now and we are lined up so that we don’t have to make it a slow transition. Next week, I’m going to preach one single message, about change based on the teachings of Jesus. And then from there, we’re off and rolling. From there, we are exalting one name. It’s not about a church name, it’s not about a brand, it’s not about an identity, horizontally. It’s not about any of those things, it is about exalting Jesus and we’re not going to get caught up in any kind of discussion or distraction or slow, progressive translation. We are just going to step into the future by faith.
Now here’s what I want to ask you to do, and I’m so far into overtime, but here’s a couple of things.
Number one, when you leave today, you going to receive after you’ve received communion out in the lobby, a little card that’s just a reminder about the continued steps on Vision Sunday, an invitation to be with us on Wednesday night in our Heart and Soul. And the. The next going I want to do, is I want to give you the very first Hillsong bumper sticker. It’s never existed on the planet until this weekend, nowhere on the planet, this is us, this is for us.
And then my last thing is , please don’t text this, please don’t tweet this, please, when you see people in the lobby don’t tell this. Let them be a part of the unfolding of this so they can hear it the way you’ve heard it here this morning. And everybody said? Amen! Come on, everybody said? amen!
Amen, Jesus thank you for setting our hearts on pilgrimage, from this day we thank you for the future , we put our trust in you and we follow you forward in Jesus’ name. Amen.
Glenn Robinson said:
Hi. I have sent quite a number of emails to hillsong about my concerns about questionable practices and methods they use, one also questioning about having Rick Warren in the house, but all my communications were IGNORED. I sent those emails in the right spirit, nothing I said or questioned was in any way inflammatory. Glenn
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
Just think about this then: they are ‘the world’s leading pastors” and church builders and spiritual giants based on their statistics of church growth etc. the very upper eschelons of spirituality and hearing from God is seen as obvious by their success : the very top of the pyramid ..but you? – you? how many mega churches have you built? how many millions in your church? But the whole thing is built is really built on human effort.
They would just flick off your comments with a sneer. This whole church culture and structure builds great pride ego and error and they would never consider listening to someone of “lesser status” – if you imagine a pyramid with the pastor at the top and with all the plebs down below slaving for the leader and paying a great deal of money to them then that’s the system you’re up against.
The church leadership that Jesus modelled however was servant leadership where he toiled and ministered to individuals as well as crowds. He washed their feet, had compassion upon them as “sheep without a shepherd”. It was really an inverted pyramid, the very opposite to the one described above with the “plebs” up the top and the leader Jesus down the bottom. Listening to his sheep and leading them and guiding them. These people are not of Jesus’ system so it’s no wonder they don’t acknowledge your comments.
There’s obviously been quite a few queries about Hillsong to score a page here on this site:
Hillsong Church Question: “Is Hillsong a biblically solid church?”
Answer: Hillsong Church was founded in 1983 in Sydney, Australia, by senior pastors Brian and Bobbie Houston. Hillsong is probably best known for their praise and worship music, having recorded dozens of popular songs since 1992, including the church favorite “Shout to the Lord.” Besides being Australia’s largest church, Hillsong has locations around the world, including campuses in Kiev, London, New York, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Moscow, São Paulo, and other cities. Hillsong Church is part of the Assemblies of God of Australia (now called the Australian Christian Churches). Is Hillsong Church a biblical church? Their stated beliefs on their official website include the basic doctrines of the triune God, salvation by grace through faith in Christ, and the reality of heaven and hell. There are a couple of concerns, however. One statement on their “What We Believe” page is curiously lacking: “We believe in the power and significance of the Church and the necessity of believers to meet regularly together for fellowship, prayer and the ‘breaking of bread.’” This statement alludes to Acts 2:42, which says the early church “devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.” What’s missing in the Hillsong statement is “the apostles’ teaching.” Why is this omitted?
A more obvious concern is Hillsong’s ordination of women as pastors, in contradiction of Scripture’s teaching that men are to be the spiritual leaders of the church (1 Timothy 2:11–12). Bobbie Houston, co-pastor of Hillsong Sydney, told The Christian Post in an October 16, 2014, interview that, when it comes to women in leadership, “the church needs to come of age sometimes and just grow up.”
Probably most troubling is Hillsong’s embrace of the Word of Faith movement. From the Hillsong website: “We believe that God wants to heal and transform us so that we can live healthy and blessed lives in order to help others more effectively.” Going along with the teaching that God always wills to heal and that “blessed” equals “healthy” is the prosperity gospel, which adds that God wills to enrich us financially. In Pastor Brian Houston’s 1999 book You Need More Money, he promotes the prosperity gospel: “We have to become comfortable with wealth, and break the bondage, guilt and condemnation of impoverished thinking. Poverty is definitely not God’s will for His people. In fact, all His promises talk of blessing and prosperity” (page 8). Houston insists that he only promotes seeking wealth for unselfish purposes—such as investing in ministry—but it is hard to reconcile the idea that “poverty is definitely not God’s will” with Paul’s teaching to be “content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want” (Philippians 4:12, emphasis added).
The Hillsong Church has been criticized recently for its leaders’ reticence to take a position on homosexuality. Hillsong New York Pastor Carl Lentz, in a televised interview with Katie Couric, declined to comment on gay marriage: “Often people want you to make these big statements about things [e.g., gay marriage] and I don’t believe it’s fair. I don’t think a public forum is always the best place to talk about something that’s so sensitive and important to so many because in a public forum there’s no discussion there.” The fact that any issue is “sensitive” or “important” should not prevent a pastor from clearly communicating God’s Word in a public forum. Can we only answer direct questions about morality privately or when we can “discuss” the matter?
As with many ministries, there are positive and negative facets to Hillsong. Are there people being saved through the Hillsong Church? Yes, and we praise God for that. Can a Christian worship the Lord with Hillsong-produced music? Absolutely. Can a person be carried away by emotion and misled into the false idea that God always wants us to be healthy and rich? Unfortunately, yes. “Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:20–21).
Recommended Resources: Complete Guide to Christian Denominations: Understanding the History, Beliefs, and Differences by Ron Rhodes and Logos Bible Software.
Stoner Sloth said:
Resistance is futile
The Oxford dictionary meaning of a takeover: An act of assuming control of something, especially the buying out of …. Meaning, pronunciation and example sentences, English to English reference content. Are you portraying the true definition accurately ?
“Terry and Judith have believed Hillsong at face value, not knowing the corruption, scandal and deceit that has made the Hillsong movement what it is today. They have deliberately ignored their bad teaching and all the information out there on Hillsong exposing their corruption. ”
This is not fact it’s all based on you opinion. How do you know they have not read everything and made an educated decision based on the information and went head with the Hillsong?
How do you you know they have not read ChurchWatch and thought some of these headlines are just plain misleading?
You are accusing Terry of believing Hillsong at face value when you have absolutely no basis for that statement. In fact the entire headline claiming Phonix are a victims as based entirely on your opinion with no basis in facts.
I’m just being honest guys and what I have stated is fair and true.
Forrest Hopkins said:
I do have basis for knowing that this post is incorrect. I work on the Hillsong Phoenix (formerly City of Grace) team, and I have done so for eight years. Terry is not someone to jump into things — he is without a doubt the wisest person I know, and he probably knows more about Hillsong than anyone else in Arizona. He knows Brian and Bobby on a personal basis, so I’m certain that he knows of their past and the trials that their church has faced.
This post is assuming, uninformed, and incorrect, which is a running theme on this site.
Yes, perhaps Hillsongchurchwatch did give the impression of making ill-informed assumptions, hoping that that Phoenix church would never pass over to the dark side without being totally ignorant. In fact it is way worse that a church leader *knew* of Hillsong’s past and CEO/ business model (contradicting Bible shepherd/ church model) and still chose to become a McHillsong franchise.
For your own and church members’ sake please be on alert for gradual decline into only positive-sounding, verses completely out-of-context pop psychology messages. Pray your pastor doesn’t EVER give into that temptation, that he keeps strong enough to remain a good pastor.
IF (big if) the worst case scenario happens, expect to be strongly criticized if you make your concerns known. “Seeker-Sensitive” leaders are notorious for kicking “negative” people out when they say too much. If that happens you’ll have to make the difficult decision between staying in current “church” (suppressing negative opinions and paying “spiritual price” for it) OR seeking a bible-loving church elsewhere (these days might be difficult to find/shunned by old church friends).
It great to see you post positive things about Hillsong, I thought you would come around.
This is such an insightful comment for you to write:
“Just think about this then: they are ‘the world’s leading pastors” and church builders and spiritual giants”
I couldn’t agree with you more.
Yes – you’ve been right all along I’m going to scrape up my meager tithe, hop and clap to the music and hide and not report any paedophile I see – just like my great leader. Brian.
David you just don’t get it now and I’m afraid you never will.
That’s the thing I do get it and I think Hillsong is fantastic.
If it is fantastic as you suggest then why did you stop attending 4-5 years ago?
“It great to see you post positive things about Hillsong, I thought you would come around.”
I am 1000% confident when I explain to you that noone posting here would ever attend any church like Hillsong which fails to teach Scripture. Hillsong is deficient. They have nothing to offer.
Look at yourself, you don’t even understand the Bible and you’re representing Hillsong, why do you think anybody would ever want to attend a church like that? Rest assured nobody here will ‘come around’ to your witnessing for Hillsong Cult.
Those here are only interested in BIBLE-BASED churches. Anything less is not considered an actual church, only a store-front with no real products inside to offer.
“Look at yourself, you don’t even understand the Bible and you’re representing Hillsong, why do you think anybody would ever want to attend a church like that? Rest assured nobody here will ‘come around’ to your witnessing for Hillsong Cult”
You are so unbelievably judgemental. What basis do you have to say I don’t understand the Bible? Just because I posted a bunch of verses about being judgmental (without discussing context) you think that is enough information for you to make a sweeping judgement.
That’s the problem with judgmental people they make accusations and form conclusions with no basis and come across holier than thou, because deep down they think they are better than other people. I don’t judge you because I don’t know you, you would do best to behave the same.
And Hillsong is a Bible based church Pastor’s like Robert Fergussion are particularly strong on exegeting from the Bible, but you won’t accept this because you want to cling to your sweeping generalisations.
As former long-term members of a movement like Hillsong, we found the only way to determine truth from error, the true from the false, was by exposing ourselves to the real thing. Just as a counterfeit expert studies real money, so as to be able to identify the counterfeit, submitting ourselves to a careful study of God’s Word shone a very bright light on the false doctrine and teachers we blindly followed into further darkness for a very long time. That bright light was God’s mercy extended to two poor sinners, who chose ‘experience’ over doctrine, ‘bright lights and smoke machines’ over God’s Word rightly divided.
Pride is something mentioned before here? Pride is what we came up against when we tried to talk to the leaders.Pride in their own success, money, numbers, buildings, so-called church growth etc. Jude 11 describes them rather well – “Woe to them! For they walked in the way of Cain and abandoned themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam’s error and perished in Korah’s rebellion.”
David, you say you had a Baptist background. There are excellent Baptist churches in many communities that have been rightly dividing God’s Word all along, but sadly we see the younger generation lured into the very great communities and friendship these movements provide, and yes, they do it so well! They can afford to and who could resist a 30,000 easter egg drop from a helicopter on Easter Sunday? It’s a real bait and switch. these same young people often admit the preaching is off but by then, they have made great friends, perhaps met a girl and before they realize it, “resistance is futile you will be assimilated into the community”.
It was listening to that review “Resistance Is Futile”, that so thoroughly convicted one young man he “was left with no choice but to leave”, as he told Chris Rosebrough after hearing it. And he now attends a Baptist church.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Great! Since you sound like you’re a genuine supporter can you PLEASE provide a sermon from any Hillsong pastor that IS actually based upon the bible passage IN CONTEXT (not proof-texted)?
Forrest Hopkins said:
David is right. You guys have indoctrinated yourself in this anti-Hillsong cult so deeply that you are blind to what is really going on. There is no conspiracy here (I know, unbelievable). Your wild theories are harmful to yourselves and the people reading this site.
jackson w. roygo said:
“David is right. You guys have indoctrinated yourself in this anti-Hillsong cult so deeply that you are blind to what is really going on. There is no conspiracy here (I know, unbelievable). Your wild theories are harmful to yourselves and the people reading this site.”
Another tare visitor speaks his mind.
Hyperbole David. Hyperbole
Hillsong Boston is coming soon, so is Hillsong Connecti Cut. according to Carl Lentz. Hillsong wants to rule the world who’s going to stop them.
Writtenbymyself – They have created their own ‘golden calf’.
Jeremiah 5:30-31 ‘An appalling and horrible thing Has happened in the land: The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests rule on their own authority; And My people love it so! But what will you do at the end of it?’
Hillsong tells the people what they want to hear, this make the people feel good about themselves. Sadly these are the leaders the people want. Put it down the pride that make them prefer the desires of their hearts rather than the written will of God. God in response, give them what they want. Sound familiar?
Amos 8:11 “Behold, the days are coming,” declares the Lord GOD, “when I will send a famine on the land — not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Hill$ongs “mission statement ” sounds more like a repackaged version of the cultish “Seven Mountains” ideation. To have a presence in “every sphere of influence ” is a regurgitation of this errant NAR philosophy, which is found nowhere in scripture or any credible extant writings… LRM and NAR leopards cannot change their spots…
Good to hear from you Apollo.
“If it is fantastic as you suggest then why did you stop attending 4-5 years ago?”
Because I don’t live near a Hillsong Church location (hours away)
“Hill$ongs “mission statement ” sounds more like a repackaged version of the cultish “Seven Mountains” ideation. To have a presence in “every sphere of influence ” is a regurgitation of this errant NAR philosophy”
Alternatively “To have a presence in “every sphere of influence” is an effective way of fulfilling the great commission. It’s hard to fulfill that commission if you don’t have any influence in different sphere’s of society.
“Alternatively “To have a presence in “every sphere of influence” is an effective way of fulfilling the great commission. It’s hard to fulfill that commission if you don’t have any influence in different sphere’s of society.”
David, That is one of the lamest statements anyone has ever posted here. Everyone but you seems to know all about how the Seven Mountains mandate is simply another piece of NAR tomfoolery. It has nothing at all to do with the Great Commission.
Make no mistake you have earned another F- for your completely bungled and uninformed Hillsong Cult answers.
David – Dominionism is “the erroneous belief that Christians have a mandate to build the “kingdom of God” on earth, restoring paradise, by progressively and supernaturally transforming themselves and others as well as all societal institutions through subduing and ruling the earth by whatever means possible, including using technology, science and psycho-social engineering; and then and only then will a “Christ” manifest his presence on earth.”
Do you hold to a belief that the Church must be triumphant before the return of Christ?
The Roots and Fruits of the New Apostolic Reformation http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue103.htm
No I do not support the Christian view of Dominionism.
But you support Hillsong. Can you prove there’s no link between the NAR and Hillsong?
David… For the last week and a bit i have had my email flooded with debates you have taken up. While it is admirable that you are trying to present the opposite view i need to call you on this one. I have been studying Greek for sometime now and i need to let you know something,
You said – “Alternatively “To have a presence in “every sphere of influence” is an effective way of fulfilling the great commission. It’s hard to fulfill that commission if you don’t have any influence in different sphere’s of society”
The Great commission was a commission from Christ to spread the good news to all “nations” (Mat 28:19) baptizing them in the name of the father, son and holy spirit. There is nothing there about needing influence. Not one thing. the “Nations” word translates from the original Greek “ἔθνος (ethnos):” which is where we derive the English word “ethnicity” from. There is nothing in the great commission about influence. People are either going to accept or reject the message of Christ. You don’t need any influence to do this. Just open your mouth, proclaim the Gospel, proclaim repentance in Christ for the forgiveness of Sins and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. You don’t need any influence. The Holt Spirit does the work not you. We have faith in Christ for the remission of our sins. No influence needed. We are called to take the Gospel to all people (ethnic) groups, the ends of the earth, everyone everywhere. from your neighbor to deepest darkest Africa. Please don’t use the great commission to justify NAR Heretical doctrines. I beg you to not twist it they way you have. It is a clear cut command from Christ. In your every day life/vocation, tell people about me, preach forgiveness in me. Nothing about influence, just the basic Gospel message. Repent and be baptized.
Also David, your behavior fits well in the cult pattern.
You as a Hillsong cult member supporting the NAR cult’s ideas, is the same behavior NAR cult members display.
The NAR cult wholeheartedly endorses the Hillsong cult’s prosperity gospel.
Cults loving on other cults.
It’s a goat and a tare thing.
“Also David, your behavior fits well in the cult pattern.”
Yeah – that’s for sure.
Hi, I was wondering about the picture included in the article. It’s a Hillsong pac-man eating the logo of what I assume is City of Grace church. Next to it is a logo of Calvary Kendall in Miami. Is there a particular reason for that logo? I took it to mean they are next. Is there something you know about this particular church? Thank you.
Hi John – Calvary Kendall in Miami is part of the “Hillsong family of churches”. By the way, click on the links below and you will see apart from the name, they are IDENTICAL.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
A reminder of a previous take-over.
Hillsong is a dumbed down gospel, they are telling people what they want to hear.
someone who attended their services, who still a member told me its a relaxed gospel.
i always used to wonder when i used to attend their services, if people who put their hands up were really saved. because there was no repentance of sin.
they told people if they were far away from god, come back to god. then they can be in relationship with jesus.
there is a huge focus on water baptism yet not enough focus on the holy spirit baptism.
the only change i saw in most of the converts, were they were 100% into serving church not serving jesus.
the only advice Hillsong gave was to keep coming back to church, where they will meet other people like themselves. there was no advice about getting to know jesus, by hearing gods voice or obeying the holy spirit. or bible reading or prayer.
hillsong is a machine they chew people up and spit people out again. as the Australian radio DJ said it is a entertainment corporation.
this church is not helping anyone with their eternal destination.
“But you support Hillsong. Can you prove there’s no link between the NAR and Hillsong?”
The burden of proof is on ChurchWatch. Churchwatch are making the claim that Hillsong originates from NAR, Hillsong would not agree with that view.
I don’t need to prove that Hillsong doesn’t orginate from NAR anymore than I need to prove that Hillsong does not originate from the tooth fairy, Finish Paganism, Atenism or the ancient Stone Gods.
Here are a few points about your article on Hillsong and NAR.
1.Your entire argument is based on the fact that Frank was influenced and had relationships with people from the NAR religion. That’s completely irreverent because as I have proven in prior emails Frank is not the founder of Hillsong, Brian Houston is the founder.
2. Even if it is true that Frank had relationships with people from the NAR religion it does not prove anything, and it definitely does not prove that CLC Waterloo was founded on NAR principles. Frank also had relationships with some Catholic leaders does that mean CLC Waterloo was also founded on Catholicism? Frank was also involved with the Salvation Army and was heavily influenced by Salvation Army preachers, does that mean that CLC Waterloo was founded on the basis of the Salvo’s?
My personal view is that CW does not have any proof that Hillsong was founded on NAR principles it just makes a great story.
“My personal view is that CW does not have any proof that Hillsong was founded on NAR principles it just makes a great story.”
So you are dominionist. Thanks for confirming this in your rant.
“So you are dominionist. Thanks for confirming this in your rant.”
I don’t think it’s a rant is raises valid points I think anyone who read my comments with an open mind would agree with what I have written. Do you have any evidence besides the fact Frank had “a relationship”with someone from NAR?
We have highlighted the doctrines of the NAR influencing his ministry throughout our articles. You are rejecting prime sources who are naively documenting Frank Houston’s growth in NAR philosophy and practices. The responsibility is now on you to refute that Frank/Houston has it’s foundations in the NOLR cult. What primary sources do you have that prove what we have to say as wrong (apart from ‘I was there – so you’re wrong’).
“Frank is not the founder of Hillsong, Brian Houston is the founder.”
Please respond to our comment here: https://hillsongchurchwatch.com/2016/02/21/the-origins-of-hillsong-part-3-frank-houstons-takeover-and-makeover-of-nz-aog/#comment-27118
“Hillsong would not agree with that view.”
Of course Hillsong wont agree with true information anything that makes them look bad – it is an organisation built on pathological liars.
Here are a few points about your article on Hillsong and NAR.
“CLC Waterloo was founded on NAR principles.”
And how did the Frank in NZ end up starting a church in Sydney?
“Frank also had relationships with some Catholic leaders does that mean CLC Waterloo was also founded on Catholicism?”
We don’t know. However, Frank Houston’s theology is also very catholic:
“Peter may have given up on himself during those dark days after his denial, but God never did. With mercy and love Jesus redeemed what He had seen in Peter long before. He restored the rock, on whom the Church would be built (see Mt. 16:18).”
Source: Frank Houston, Release of the Human Spirit, pg. 81-2.
Do you remember that university history textbook entry David?
4.3.1.The Influence of Hillsong Church
Of these various mega-churches, the most influential has been Hillsong church. In August 1983, ****FRANK HOUSTON SENT HIS SON BRIAN***** to pioneer a church in the Hills district of North West Sydney……
Yes I remember. FRANK HOUSTON SENT HIS SON BRIAN***** to pioneer a church in the Hills
Frank Houston sent his son ******BRIAN TO PIONEER A CHURCH*******. Brian is the pioneer and founder of Hillsong. This is the way I read it Thinker.
David is indulging himself in a little illegitimate distortion (negationism) of the Hillsong historical record. The next step might be some book-burning?
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Danny Gravette said:
I have to say on another level, I feel like we have the strongest team that we ve ever had in the history of our church . We ve always had great people leading but there s something unique about the combination, the chemistry, the connection, the cohesion of the team that we have right here at our church during this season and I m so grateful for that.
David, don’t go on your personal feelings. Open your bible and compare what Hillsong teaches/does compares to what the apostles taught/ did in the New Testament.
Book of Acts chapter 2: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts+2&version=KJV
* verse 1 – where’s the lights, camera crew and musicians, essential to make God’s presence felt?
* verse 6 – actual understandable languages to foreign Jews – why not heavenly language (unintelligible babble)?
* verses 14-21 – quoting from Old Testament in context with NO mention of tithing
* verses 22-35 – all about one person, nothing about YOU
* verses 36-40 – where were the positive, uplifting words? Where was the “you’re so special, God loves you so much, make a decision for Jesus** [see Hillsong terms and conditions] and God’ll give you success in this life*** in JEESUZ’ name?”
* verse 41 – How did 3000+ converts believe in Jesus with the opposite of Hillsong’s sales pitch?
** Hillsong terms and conditions:
upon making a decision for Jesus in a Hillsong “church”/ meeting etc., you’ll prove your love for God by how much Hillsong’s merchandise you buy, how many seminars you attend/ new attendees you bring with you to our performances, how much time you give in unpaid service to Hillsong, and last (definitely not least) how much you tithe and donate to Hillsong weekly.
*** Hillsong refund policy:
We give NO refunds of any variety if there are no long-term improvements in your health (body, soul and/ or spirit), wealth and personal status (no matter how much money you give to our ministries). Lack of success is from your own lack of faith.
I went to the Mesa, AZ Hillsong franchise on March 5. Not because I wanted to go, but because someone wanted me to get a count of the seating and how full the building was. (I live two miles away.) The answer to those questions is: the auditorium seats about 2,000 and it was over 90 percent full. And this was adults and teenagers (the children were in children’s church). I should also note that I will not willingly go back to the church because it was too loud. It was so loud, even during the preaching, that when my cellphone rang, the only reason I noticed it was ringing was because it was in my hand. And I should make it clear, I am no slouch when it comes to loud music–my favorite genre is metal. But this was just LOUD.
I also got the distinct impression that there were more than a few looky-lous (i.e., people who were new) in attendance. It will be interesting to see if they’re able to convert these lookers into attendees and tithers.
Ben Yang said:
“It will be interesting to see if they’re able to convert these lookers into attendees and tithers.”
Hillsong loves their tithers. Tithers gain the best treatment and highest esteem.
The biggest givers are called ‘Kingdom Builders’ which pledge to tithe a minimum of $5,000 a year and get special treatment at retreats. There are several hundred of these givers.
It’s all about the money.
What would James (1:1 a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ) say when he saw Hillsong’s reverence towards the wealthy and social high status attendees?
hillsong is really a rich man’s church.