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“The lady doth protest too much, methinks”is a quotation from the 1599/ 1600 play Hamlet by William Shakespeare. It has been used as a figure of speech, in various phrasings, to describe someone’s too frequent and vehement attempts to convince others of some matter of which the opposite is true, thereby making themselves appear defensive, and insincere.” [Source]
Women’s Weekly have done a respectable job interviewing and covering a story of Brian and Bobbie Houston of the Hillsong church. This story was publicised and endorsed by Bobbie Houston herself.
I was a little nervous about this – but big pic it’s lovely. It was in context of my coming book “The Sisterhood”. Thank you to the Aust Women’s Weekly (and Juliet Rieden) for asking, for allowing me to meet you, have you in my home, have a few laughs … and in essence share my faith. And of course, the real miracle of “the Sisterhood” is in the THOUSANDS OF FABULOUS EVERYDAY AUSSIE WOMEN (& GIRLS) whose story this is. God bless you. #TheSisterhoodBook
Source: Bobbie Houston, Instagram, https://www.instagram.com/p/BB6AYZXIYwi/, Published 18/02/2016. (Accessed 02/03/2016.)
We will be tackling other aspects of this Women’s Weekly magazine report in future articles. One of the biggest issues in the article we want to address now is Hillsong’s anti-biblical stance on homosexuality.
“[Homosexuality] is a dilemma because the Bible’s quite clear about some of the parameters that belong to those in leadership. And we’re still figuring it out… We want to bridge all the divides in society and I think that’s one of the final divides.”
Source: Bobbie Houston, Australian Women’s Weekly, We’re Not A Cult, March Issue, 2016.
Here is the first page of the “Special Report” from Women’s Weekly:
Here is an excerpt from the Australian Women’s Weekly:
What really goes on at a Hillsong service
Every Sunday, more than 10,000 parishioners descend on the Hillsong chapel in Baulkham Hills – we investigate what they’re coming for.
It’s a bright Sunday morning in Baulkham Hills and already the traffic is backed up on the Solent Circuit. Smiling teens in high-visibility orange vests and back-to-front baseball caps embroidered with Y & F – Young and Free – have been directing cars for hours.
They are all heading the same way; to the Hills Campus to take part in uproarious worship at one of the four capacity services at the Hillsong convention centre and chapel.
Every Sunday, more than 10,000 parishioners descend on this hallowed quadrant in the Business Park in Sydney’s north-west, some by car, some in the church’s private buses, and significantly more will be tuning in via Hillsong TV from all over the country and the world.
Seventy-five per cent of the church’s followers are under 35 and 91 per cent under 50. They come perhaps for the razzamatazz that has made Hillsong Australia’s fastest-growing church. Whatever they come for, it’s working.
At 11am, the crowds move inside in waves, eager to nab the best seats. It’s a vast arena with stacked rows of seating around an apron stage. Immediately in front of the podium, overexcited teens fresh from summer youth camps swap complex handshakes and whoop and holler.
And then the lights dim and the music starts. The stage comes alive with a flashing light show. Images of the heavens, of water, of palm trees flash across the central screen, which is surrounded by stars and circles of beaming neon tubing. Meanwhile, the 14-strong band pumps out classics from Hillsong’s repertoire. “Holy, Holy, Holy is your name,” they sing as the crowd wave their arms and sway to the beat.
With parishioners drunk on the music, the service kicks off. First are the prayer lists, specific messages from people eager to get a special hotline to God and then a call for tithes and offerings as buckets are passed along each row. On the screen, there are details outlining the ways you can give – via the envelope on your chair, online, via the Hillsong app, BPAY.
A Youth Leader bounces onto the stage and introduces young student Jasmine, who retells her revelation of speaking in tongues at last week’s youth camp, to loud applause. Next is an advertisement for the Bible college next door, where would-be pastors learn their craft.
And finally the leader of Hillsong, impresario Brian Houston, dressed down in jeans and a loose white shirt, moves to the front. His rasping voice echoes around the centre. He talks about the sanctity of marriage, about spiritual solutions to human problems. His parishioners are rapt. They are rapt for more than an hour.
It’s easy to take aim at this happy, shiny group of Christians gorging on their Sunday fix of clappy worship, but one thing is clear, they all love this place and they’re all having fun.
“There’s excitement, you’re involved,” says one parishioner. “There’s praise and for a young person on a Friday or Saturday night, it’s better than going clubbing. And on a Sunday, it’s a great way to start the day.”
Read more of this story in the March issue of The Australian Women’s Weekly.
Source: By What really goes on at a Hillsong service, Australian Women’s Weekly, http://www.aww.com.au/latest-news/celebrity/kate-winslet-settles-those-pregnancy-rumours-25774, Published 24/02/2016.
Hillsong Church Watch 
Entertainment for the masses (especially the youth) !! – yeah baby!! – spiritual growth.?- naa- not so much…..
I agree that Hillsong’s format and worldly methods is a far cry from what true Christianity is supposed to be all about. The way I see it is that it makes a total mockery of true christianity by trying to popularize it by using worldly embellishments and modern music.
The message of late is God is now doing “a new thing.”(Isiaiah 43:19). Is what these pastors trying to say now is that we can now abandon the old time proven gospel message of biblical repentance&faith in the finished work of the cross, the future Judgment & God’s [future] wrath on the impenitent etc. because this message is out-dated and archaic and unpopular with the masses?
The main thrust is “team building”, “leadership”, “wealth creation”, being “seeker friendly”and the like. Does this tie in with what Jesus came to institute i.e. laying down our lives in servanthood, dying to ourselves, taking up our cross, and “determining to know nothing, but Christ and him crucified”?
I would even dare to say that the way it (Hillsong) is heading, unless if it does what it says in Corinthians to “.. examine yourselves, and see if you be in THE FAITH.”, that this church may end up if not already being part of the end-time Loedician church that Jesus is nauseated with, that is spews out of His mouth.
She is a vile woman and would be well suited riding a beast with 10 heads
ChurchWatch
” She is a vile woman and would be well suited riding a beast with 10 heads”
I know you guys screen messages at times, why do you guys not screen out messages like the above?
I’m sure if the message was directed at Andea Meseti it would be blocked !!
The comment is addressed to Bobbie.
There’s no doubt she’s a false teacher and false prophet with absolutely no fear of taking the Lord’s name in vain when she’s claims to speak for Him. Not a good position to be in when she stands before Him one day.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“I know you guys screen messages at times, why do you guys not screen out messages like the above?”
Perhaps because it’s spot-on?
“Perhaps because it’s spot-on?”
Yes. Bobbie is an unbiblical pastor and she lies in the name of God. In the Old Testament times she would have been struck down in a minute.
The Womens Weekly have in no way done a “respectable job ” interviewing Bobbie Houston because they have not asked any of the hard questions around what Bobbie knew about the facts of Frank Houstons paedophilia or the criminal failure on the part of the ACC Board to report it to the police. They have also failed to demand of Bobbie that she demonstrate the evidence for the claim “we are not a cult “.
Even though they did not ask her the hard questions, at least they researched what came out of the commission and presented what Bobbie wanted to say in light of the what the facts seem to say. They managed to extract very damning quotes from Bobbie in relation to her views in the commission and also Hillsong congregants. They didn’t just take her word for it. Futhermore, they extracted more interesting information from Bobbie in regards to their relationship/job history and CLC/Hillsong history. After this month, we will provide the fuller article for the sake of Women’s Weekly.
“The lady doth protest too much, methinks”is a quotation from the 1599/ 1600 play Hamlet by William Shakespeare. It has been used as a figure of speech, in various phrasings, to describe someone’s too frequent and vehement attempts to convince others of some matter of which the opposite is true, thereby making themselves appear defensive, and insincere”
The lady doth protest to much in all fairness is valid quote, This could also be used in the context that ChurchWatch do protest too much. In fact this entire site is a protest against Hillsong.
Me thinks ChurchWatch protest too much about Hillsong,,,
“Me thinks ChurchWatch protest too much about Hillsong”
That’s your problem. You don’t stand for Jesus, you don’t stand for truth in any form, all you stand for is the Hellsong Deception.
Contrary to your limited/faulty perception, Churchwatch does NOT protest about your Hellsong Cult. Churchwatch protests against LIES, and your Hellsong Cult just happens to be a whopper.
A timely article for you, David.
http://www.piratechristian.com/messedupchurch/2016/1/hateful-haters-have-hatred-and-other-useless-ideas
“The painful reality is that false teachers are great manipulators and they know exactly what to say in order to keep your trust (and keep their money pouring in), so sometimes it’s necessary to say negative and critical things to confront them and their teachings. The Old Testament prophets, Jesus and all the Apostles did this.
A lot.”
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“With the parishioners drunk on the music ”
I find that a rather astute observation, if you look you can see exactly who the music is really for, and it’s not God.
Absolutely Icarus.
People deem Hillsong to be good and safe because the music sounds good.
How many times did Jesus warn us all?
Heaps!
“They will come in my name saying I am he”.
Get it?
They will come saying Jesus is the Christ, not saying that they are Jesus.
Charlatans.
Money grubbing thieves.
I am in no way a keyboard warrior! in fact ,very seldom do I comment on anything.
So i am going to allow myself a special dispensation and contend for the faith as Jude instructs us….
David this one’s aimed at you!!
Over the past weeks of reading your comments i’ve come to the conclusion that im completely baffled as to why in the light of the ‘law of evidence’ you will continually defend a false church that preaches and defends a false gospel!
before I flesh that out futher, I will state that I am an ex Hillsong church attendee, grew up in new zealand under AOG churches, was subjected to countless hillsong music worship sevices(or experiences what ever you want to call it)
and over many years endured listening to Brian’s preaching and many other hillsong pastors( I use that term very loosely)
As of now and solely by God’s grace I am reformed in both doctrine and theology(they be dirty words in any seeker friendly! discover your God given destiny church)
The Lord Jesus Christ and His antoning work on the cross(grace alone through faith alone through christ alone.eph:8-9) is the object of this poor sinners faith!
A sinner (our inheritence from the first adam.rom 5:12) brought forth into this world spirtually dead(eph2:1) A slave to sin death and the devil.
Committing actual sins by thought, word and deed. Sining in evil and when failing to do good, sining against God, neighbour and self. every day being tempted by the flesh and often succumbing, and because of this God’s wrath is kindled against us. our just reward is not only earthly death, but eternal death…
But our Loving Father being merciful and gracious did not leave us there, but rather comes to our relief. He sends his only begotten Son, born of a virgin under the law that the law might be fulfilled by this Man for all men. And God has Him suffer and die upon a cross, He who knew no sin became sin so that we may be released from eternal death and the kingdom of Satan,that we might receive eternal life and become the children of God..
Christ kingdom bears no resemblance to earthly kingdoms, before Pontius Pilate, Christ confessed His kingdom was not of this world,
in their eyes He was a poor wretched man who Had the scorn of many!!
Yet He proclaimed He was born into this world that He should bear witness to the truth, and that everyone of the truth will hear His voice
The apostle Paul in 1Timothy6:13-14 urges Timothy to keep the commandment(doctrine) pure of Christ confession before Pilate.
If we are to be true ministers of the Gospel we must confess and understand
that Christ’s Kingdom is not accustom to what early kingdoms are, no!
This king forgives sin, bestows righteousness, delivers from everlasting death, bestows the Holy Spirit and eternal life, these are the gifts to all who hear His voice, and this kingdom He has established on earth but only in word and faith.
As you can see Daivd true biblical doctrine and the gospel has nothing to do
with what hillsong preaches, there is no leadership doctrine(we have God’s written word for that) or pioneer doctrine. The gospel is no about enabling us to find our God purpose or fullfil our destiny(all of which are bogas hillsong doctrines they claim are biblical)
Brain houston can only preach about his own life, because he thinks the bible is about him(just listen to any sermon he gives) Bobbie well she shouldn’t even be preaching, that alone makes your statement of Robert Fergusson being a good exegete redundant
So David in light of scripture what you are contending for in hillsong is a lie, the Holyspirit has no part in hillsong, they are twisters of God’s word and in doing so they silence God’s word. But the Lord Jesus Christ our mediator is faithul and just to forgive us of all our sins if we confess them
To Him be the glory.
After being out of a hillsong ( then called CLC) church for 12 months we visited a local one and were struck at how deafening the music was. Then we saw at the front a giant projected head of Brian! You didn’t need to be a genius to see the cult like practices of the loud music and the idol worship of our beloved “leader”! It took us 12 months to get us unprogrammed and see the manipulation.
Yes, its a long, slow battle when you make the decision to leave a C3 or Hillsong because it’s only then that you realise how programmed you really are. When I left C3 it became apparent that they used fear very effectively to stop people leaving or criticising the church, and it took a long time to shake that off.
I’m still working through religion… Years later.
All I can do is look to the Lord.
Religious establishments are businesses.
“We’re not a cult”.
Bobbie- you’re definitely a charlatan!
This article was a good reminder to keep priorities right. http://peacemaker.net/project/the-cross-and-criticism/
Hillsong supporters: are you defending God or defending yourself/ Hillsong from criticism?
Opponents: are you fighting for God or fighting Hillsong Church itself [for any other motive/s]?
There *is* a time for criticism Bobbie Houston.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+3%3A1-8&version=KJV
Christians want Hillsong (alleged) Church to preach about our living Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus is Lord, not our church leaders. Jesus is our Saviour, not Hillsong.
Thinker
Very valid points. Did u watch their vision 2016 video I posted?
I could only watch several minutes before I got too annoyed.
This might surprise you: it wasn’t how the pastors (and wives) presented themselves or how they spoke. As people they looked and sounded pleasant enough.
It was the constant background music. I have the same reaction towards movies and TV shows that rely too heavily on music to create a “certain mood”.
Rule-of-thumb: If the script is good enough, music isn’t needed. If the script is lousy, it certainly is!
The background music was to make people think with their feelings, not with their head. Musical hypnosis is way more powerful than most people realise.
Musical Hypnosis: Sound and Selfhood from Mesmerism to Brainwashing
https://shm.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/10/05/shm.hkr143.full
“Christians want Hillsong (alleged) Church to preach about our living Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus is Lord, not our church leaders. Jesus is our Saviour, not Hillsong.”
Not according to Hillsong – Hillsong does the saving and Hillsong is the hope of the world. Simply listen to or read Brian Houston’s ‘The Church I See’ speech.
This is the first time I’ve ever left a comment on anything on the internet… but it’s not going to be a hateful or single anyone out comment, because that’s not the person I am. Jesus has taught me that we change the world, change people and build compassion and understanding by demonstrating love and kindness.
Among many things, at the end of the day christianity is trying to live as Jesus did… being a kind, loving, caring, helpful, compassionate and supportive person… I could go on and on. I can say I have been a christian for about 18 months now and my life has changed. My entire life I have gone to various church services, begrudgingly, with work, family, friends etc and not once was I really wanting to go back again each time. Something though kept pulling me to try Hillsong. Sure, I read the comments of people on the internet, I had friends tell me their second hand opinions, but I just felt compelled to see for myself before judging something. Wow – was it an eye opener. From day one I was hooked. I wasn’t hooked because there was loud music, or the size of the building, I was hooked because for the first time in my life I actually felt Jesus. I was surrounded by people who weren’t judgemental, who were welcoming, who cared, who asked how are you, who offered to support passions of my own… need I not go on. Many times I’d been turned off churches and christianity because I thought some christians I’d met were the biggest hypocrites and judgemental people I’d ever met. As far as I was concerned, if this was what being a christian was about, forget it, I’m out, I don’t want to be one of those envious, judgemental, I’m better than you people. Hillsong have many incredible Pastors, and yes, there faces are splashed up on the screens at times and people applaud them for bringing the word of God, but, we don’t go out to Hillsong to applaud the Pastors, we go out to listen to the Pastors bring the word of God. These Pastors are incredible people and for the first time in my life since attending Hillsong I actually walk away constantly reflecting on their stories of how Jesus helped people and how we can use these examples to be better people ourselves. Tell me, how is this a bad thing… constantly being taught to be a better person? We recognise and congratulate sports stars, actors, ambassadors for incredible causes…. great, they’ve worked hard to get where they are and achieve what they have, hats off to them, that’s dedication. But how is recognising the good work of delivering God’s message in an upbeat, fun and interesting way any different to recognising these other people? If the youth of today, and I’m a teacher so see this often, would prefer to spend Friday and Sunday nights rocking out with God then drinking or causing unnecessary mayhem on the streets, that’s awesome!! These youths are taught instead how to help those and others that may be doing it tough…. therefore are creating a little army of youth that want to go and help others and share the gospel and tell them they don’t have to drink or sleep around to feel good about themselves to fit in. Exactly who they are is good enough, in God’s eyes you are made perfect… don’t stray from the life he has for you. Will there be tough times, of course, will there be incredible times, you bet…. it’s not all roses being a christian…. but the difference is how we handle the tough times, what character to we show when we are struggling? That’s what church, and in this case HIllsong if you attend there, teach us. If you want a smaller church with quieter music, that’s awesome to, but
Hillsong and the Pastors there have taught me so much and more. Instead of being a hater and judgemental of Hillsong, the Pastors and those that attend…. try it, for a while… then decided if it’s you or not. If it’s not, then I pray God will direct to you on the path he has planned for you. If you love it, come say hi! None of us are perfect, but little by little… attitudes can change. if you don’t know, don’t judge, don’t comment, that’s why the world is an ugly place. Those who don’t know are always the first to jump in with their 2 cents worth. If you tried HIllsong and it wasn’t you, I hope you find somewhere you love. Not one thing is always going to suit everyone, thats common sense and life… but don’t diss on Hillsong for teaching and helping people become even more loving, kind and wonderful people.
I Love it…
Well said, thanks for taking the time to write that post. For me, the most important aspect of your story is that you found Jesus and developed a personal relationship with him. Hillsong provided a Church environment that enabled you to find Jesus.
There are hundred’s of thousands / millions of people around the world that have accepted Jesus into their life through Hillsong globally over the years which is fantastic,
Critics tend to ignore this aspect and focus on the negative. considering Church is
a hospital for sinners there will always be ammunition for critics.
I enjoyed reading your story.
Cheers,
“There are hundred’s of thousands / millions of people around the world that have accepted Jesus into their life through Hillsong globally over the years which is fantastic…” (millions?)
Sounds like the very unbiblical decisional regeneration to me, David.
Old School evangelists would use the threats of hell fire and brimstone and God’s wrath to convince their hearers to ‘make a decision to accept Jesus into their hearts’.
New School evangelists (Seeker-Driven Pastors) don’t like the negativity of discussing hell and sin and have found that they can convince large numbers of post-modern listeners to make a ‘decision to accept Jesus into their hearts’ by convincing them that Jesus will help them experience a more satisfying life.
Both of these types of evangelists are in serious error because NO ONE is born again by accepting Jesus into their hearts so that they escape hell or so that they can experience an abundant and satisfying life.
Here is what God’s Word says. (Pay attention to who is doing the deciding in all of these verses).
John 1:9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own peopledid not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of a human decision nor of the will of man, but of God.
Conclusion: if an evangelist is not preaching repentance of sins and the forgiveness of sins in Jesus name (aka the word of Christ) then he is not preaching a message that God will use to impart the gifts of repentance, faith and peace with God through the forgiveness of sins in Jesus’ name.
Rest of article: http://www.extremetheology.com/2009/04/the-false-of-assumption-of-decisional-evangelism.html
Cheers, Team Churchwatch.
Let’s talk about numbers David, the “millions” you claim for Hillsong. Have you ever had the chance to check the shelf-life of an average Hillsong attendee? Five years on average, and where are they now? Hopefully, they have seen the light and moved on to a real church (maybe even a small one, as most of the true ones are), one that does preach the whole council of God out of a real bible, not The Message Bible.
This pretty much sums up Brian’s church-growth model here:
“There’s a serious defect in a so-called minister content to be proud of assembling non-believers and calling them a church. Something deeply wrong there. Modern evangelicalism seems to exhaust every imaginable and unimaginable means to attract and collect non-Christians into a building and then call it a church and call it church growth. Maybe there’s a better way to identify these places, let’s just call them non-churches.” John Macarthur
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Just wow.
Your feelings are not the gauge for truth.
The smiles on the faces of the “salaried to serve” so called pastors… Are not the gauge for truth.
I spent YEARS there.
They read the Bible and take every book as person love letters from God.
Twisting contexts to suit their prosperity false doctrine.
their leaders fill their pockets with money under the guise of servant hood.
You two are deceived.
Follow JESUS.
Not Brian, nor Bobbie.
Just follow Christ.
Same old, same old – it “makes me “feel” good to go to Hillsong. There’s not one word in the Bible about church supposed to be making us “feel” good! That is NOT the message of the gospel. And the same old message about “haters”. IF the only alternative was, the little church on the corner with the out-of-tune organ, the aging preacher calling us to repentance and the olden day hymns, would we still attend church? That’s the test!!!! Church is not about going to get a “fix” to get us through the week – at least I can’t find the chapter and verse. Don’t “diss” Hillsong for teaching? Teaching what??? Helping people become more loving and kind??? Exampled by whom? Brian Houston and his wife? Just one small question. IF it is all about kindness and fuzzy wuzzy feelings of wanting to help people I wonder why Hillsong has not reached out to Frank Houston’s victims. A load of hogwash!!!! All surface and no substance!!!! Words, words, words. Whoever wrote that comment is brain-washed so badly it is a tribute to the Hillsong cult.
ChurchWatch
“Sounds like the very unbiblical decisional regneration to me, David.”
I presume regneration mean regeneration. Firstly, I Love it (poster) said in hist post that he had been saved for 18 months, so be careful about your responses he’s a new Christian (which we should celebrate) and is hardly representing himself as a theologian.
And yes I did say millions which is an accurate reflection(30+ years, global church’s and broader impact through music ).
“Both of these types of evangelists are in serious error because NO ONE is born again by accepting Jesus into their hearts so that they escape hell or so that they can experience an abundant and satisfying life”
I agree, thankfully Hillsong don’t preach fire and brimstone and Hillsong do preach repentance of sin as part of their conversion process.
John 10:27-29 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand…”
If “I Love It” is truly His, nothing we say can change his/her eternal security regardless of opinions expressed here, David.
Unless of course it troubles your own security having a semi-pelagian/Arminian mindset?
I Love It (ILI) has been a Christian for 18 months? Do you realise at a Hillsong or C3 church that would qualify him/her for leadership. 😄 Seriously it’s happened.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
I love it
I know where you’re coming from – all the gloss and good works dazzles – especially all the youth clapping happily instead of being in clubs and pubs-” this is good work -God work surely” you think,
But just imagine this: People who were casting out demons and performing
MIRACLES in Jesus’ name -only to be told by The Lord ” go away I never knew you!'” It’s unbelievable – can you picture how you would feel if you saw someone in Hillsong performing a miracle in the name of Jesus and then to be told by someone else that the miracle worker is not a real Christian!! You wouldn’t believe them – you would believe your own eyes and the christian sounding words of the miracle worker -wouldn’t you?
It just goes to show. Sometimes there is an underbelly to what we see on the surface.
I love it…. Unfortunately the Jesus you speak of, is the My little pony/ care bear Jesus! Who is based on subjectivity(feelings and experience) This is a very different Jesus that the objective and authoritative word of God reveals! All scripture is Breathed out by God. 2Tim 3:16
And all scripture Testifies about Jesus Christ john5:39
God sent His only begotten son into this world to set us free from sin, eternal death and the devil!
We are called to proclaim repentance and the forgiveness of sin luke24:47 Not to change the world(this one will pass away.luke21:33) and change people! That’s the work of the Holy Spirit through the hearing of God’s word.
Scripture doesn’t teach us to ‘feel Jesus’ but rather to trust in who He is,and what He has done for us ( bleeding and dying on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins and rising again on the third day for our right standing before God)
Clancy Seabrook
” Contrary to your limited/faulty perception, Churchwatch does NOT protest about your Hellsong Cult”
Are you serious Clancy? You would have to be deluded if you really thought this was the case.
peter Wheeler, which part of NZ are you from? I was saved at AOG Sydneham, Ch.Ch. a few weeks before the Pringles. Shortly after pringle was saved he stole about two thirds of the sheep from our church and started a new one with Dennis Barton. Pringle’s teaching was way off right from the beginning!
ChurchWatch
I can’t believe your quoting John Macarthur although it does not surprise me. Did you watch the “strange Fire” conference” I’m sure you have.
He raises some valid points although he is guilty of painting groups with the same brush on a colossal scale. He is a judgmental sneering elitist old man who thinks he has all the answers !!
“He is a judgmental sneering elitist old man who thinks he has all the answers !!”
How old are you David?
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
I guess we should have gone back a bit further and quoted that other “judgmental sneering elitist old man who thinks he has all the answers”. His downgrade is now the modern day downgrade.
“The party everywhere apparent has a faith fashioned for the present century – perhaps we ought rather to say, for the present month. The sixteenth century gospel it derides, and that indeed, of every period except the present most enlightened era. It will have no creed because it can have none: it is continually on the move; it is not what it is to-day. It’s shout for ‘liberty,’ its delight is invention, its element is change. On the other hand, there still survive, amid the blaze of nineteenth century light, a few whom these superior persons call ‘fossils’: that is to say, there are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ who consider that the true gospel is no new gospel but is the same yesterday, to-day, and forever. These do not believe in ‘advanced views,’ but judge that the view of truth which saved a soul in the second century will save a soul now, and that a form of teaching which was unknown till the last few years is of very dubious value, and is, in all probability, ‘another gospel which is not another.’”
Charles H. Spurgeon
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Dear church watch
There is a very interesting documentary called What Our Father’s Did. A Nazi Legacy. It is made by philippe sands, a lawyer who specializes in war crimes.
It centers around a series of interviews with two old men who fathers were very high ranking nazi officials and consultants to Adolf Hitler. Despite the ‘mountain’ of documented evidence Philippe sands presents to one of the men, that his father was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of people He would not believe! that his father committed these crimes. He just could not be persuaded of his father’s terrible crimes.
What has transcribe here on this site time and time again, reminds me of this man! Despite the objective truth of God’s word and the true Gospel of Jesus Christ being presented, which exposes false teaching, false gospels and false churches, some men will just not be persuaded!
Perhaps it’s a case of shaking the dust of your feet!!
Interesting story Pete – with Hillsong followers? It’s called cognitive dissonance – always avoiding or denying any facts that might contradict the group’s belief system.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
ChurchWatch
” If “I Love It” is truly His, nothing we say can change his/her eternal security regardless of opinions expressed here, David.”
So this gives you permission to treat him how wish if it serves your agenda in sledging Hillsong?
Sledging?
“He is a judgmental sneering elitist old man who thinks he has all the answers !!”
Sledging?
“He is a judgmental sneering elitist old man who thinks he has all the answers !!”
This wasn’t directed at YOU or CHURCHWATCH it was directed at John MacArthur, two very different things.
Debra
“can you picture how you would feel if you saw someone in Hillsong performing a miracle in the name of Jesus and then to be told by someone else that the miracle worker is not a real Christian”
Let me ask you a questions Debra:
Can you picture how you would feel if you saw someone from ChurchWatch performing a miracle in the name of Jesus and then to be told by someone else that the miracle worker is not a real Christian?
My questions isn’t fair and neither is yours because we are both making judgments about someone’s faith.and we are both insinuating they are not Christians.
David
Thank you for asking my question back to me. Actually I’ve been in this very situation – not miracles as such but mighty works. If I were in the situation you posed I would be gobsmacked if I saw one of them perform a creative miracle ( like growing a leg back or something ) and I would find it VERY hard to believe he wasn’t a great ‘Man of God”.
But if someone told me he wasn’t (or even my own God given discernment might kick in) I would have to rethink it because Matt 7 v22 has been seared into my brain and heart by God. It’s a wonderful scripture because it teaches us discernment and not to rely on what we see or hear for direction but rely on God to lead us even when all our senses are drawing us the other way.
As for judging others, it was Jesus who judged those type of people for us by his words “depart from me you who practice lawlessness”, Jesus speaks (and judges) for us by His word. So who is going to quibble with Jesus and sit around and sing kumbaya with them?
Can anyone point me to a verse where “repent from your sin/s” is a requirement for being born again?
John says “believe”.
Repent means change your mind (about Christ).
If not, how many sins must I turn from to be saved?
Where does Jesus teach this as his gospel?
Is repentance necessary for salvation? by Matt Slick
The answer to the question–“Is repentance necessary for salvation?”–is both yes and no. It depends on what is meant by the question. If by asking, “Is repentance necessary for salvation?” the person means that the sinner must first repent, have a change of mind, and stop sinning in order to get saved, then the answer would be no. The reason would be that we are not saved from the righteous judgment of God by stopping sin and doing good–that would be salvation by works. We are saved from our sins by trusting in Christ, who bore our sins in His body on the cross (1 Pet 2:24)–not by ceasing sin and doing what is right. When we receive Christ (John 1:12), we are then justified by faith (Rom. 3:28, 4:5, 5:1), and it is the work of God to regenerate us which then enables us to turn from our sins. Therefore, repentance is the result of regeneration (salvation)–not the cause of it.
“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 “And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances,” (Ezekiel 36:26-27).
John 1:12-13, “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
“The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit,” (John 3:8).
“Every good thing bestowed and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation, or shifting shadow. 18 In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures,” (James 1:17-18).
On the other hand, repentance is necessary for salvation in the sense that we cannot be saved from God’s righteous judgment without changing our minds about sin–without turning from it and seeking to honor God.
Luke 13:3, “I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Acts 2:38, “And Peter said to them, “Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 17:30, “Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent.”
Repentance is most definitely part of the Gospel message, but we have to make sure that we do not make the mistake of saying that our salvation is because of our repentance. Again, we do not want to say that our salvation is a result of our stopping the doing of what is wrong and turning to do what is right. This would be salvation by works. This is a tricky issue among Christians as to whether or not the unbeliever, who is a slave of sin (Romans 6:14-20), who cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14), and can do no good (Romans 3:10-12), is able to make a choice to stop sinning based on his sinful nature. It would seem that the ability to repent must be granted by God (Phil. 1:29, Acts 11:18, 2 Tim. 2:25).
So we have to be careful when we ask if repentance is necessary for salvation. The real question is: “Is repentance the result of salvation?” And the answer to that is yes. But repentance is also part of the message of salvation that commands people to repent because turning from sin is what is right to do. Sin is against the nature of God and that is why God always commands everyone everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), just as He also commands that you will be holy (1 Peter 1:16) even though we cannot be holy. God is the standard of perfection and that standard is not lessened because of our inability. Therefore, repentance is commanded as is holiness, and we have to depend on God for both.
https://carm.org/repentance-necessary-salvation
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Hi Churchwatch, what is your view on tithing in the church? I admit that I am currently attending Hillsong Church however I’ll leave once I’m able to (still in my late teens).
Hi Warrior,
The tithing heresy is an anti-biblical and an anti-Christ doctrine. We say anti-biblical because one has to be very flippant and creative with the scriptures to turn crop, livestock or spoils of war to mean money and to turn the now-perished levite priesthood into the office of pastor.
Hebrews 7 clearly refutes the practice of tithing, teaching when Christ, through his death, established His eternal priesthood. The tithe was given to support a perishable priesthood. Tithing is of the old wineskin. To give freely is of the new wineskin.
Furthermore, the ancient church father Irenaeus observed that the early Christian church did not tithe but that the Jews did.
For more information on tithing, read this resource:
https://churchwatchcentral.com/2015/05/01/why-tithing-is-not-a-christian-doctrine-part-1/
Thank you for your response!
And David sounds like Newtaste haha
I think David and Newtaste are cousins.
David – if you want to continue commenting here, do it with some maturity or your comments will stay in moderation.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.