Tags
AHA, Barbara Taylor, Brian Houston, Frank Houston, houston, John McMartin, Maddog Mudford, McMartin, Mudford, Royal Commission, Taylor
Source material references are listed at the end.
Brian Houston is known for deceiving and abusing the trust so readily given to him by faithful people. It has emerged from the Royal Commision that Mr Houston told one thing to Ps. Barbara Taylor and testified something else to the Royal Commission.
Brian Houston swore on the bible at the Royal Commission.
Do you think he should have done this?
The Royal Commission (RC) proceedings provide a rare glimpse into the way Brian Houston operates behind the scenes as a ‘Christian leader’. A sad, sorry “meeting” at McDonalds between victim AHA (see Report of Case Study No. 18, section 2.2) and Frank with a family friend assisting Frank back in the year 2000, is an example of how Brian can spin the same event two ways to suit himself:
a. Brian insisted to the RC the meeting had “nothing to do with me [Brian] or Hillsong” and the “elder” was only there as a family friend for Frank. (ie. family business)
b. Yet to Ps Barbara Taylor, that was a proper meeting between AHA and Frank Houston with an elder of Hillsong/CLC present. (ie. official church business)
So, did Brian Houston lie to Ps. Barbara Taylor?
Brian Houston argued that what he did as a son of Frank Houston was not relevant to the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to child sexual abuse. Similarly, what Frank did with AHA was Frank’s business and nothing to do with Brian, the AOG executive or Hillsong. Brian gets to decide what is family business so who gets told what.
A CLOSER LOOK AT BRIAN SPINNING THE DETAILS
For Brian, depending on what suited him at the time, the meeting at McDonalds was:
A. A personal, family business (when Brian gave evidence to the Royal Commission).
Frank was trying to get forgiveness with a payment of $10,000 and have AHA
sign a document to say it was final.
- Brian argued to the RC he did not need to inform the AOGA about this meeting at which a “final” payment was made and prior legal advice was sought.
- Brian also argued that what he did in the role of a son was not ‘relevant’ to the Royal Commission.
- It is easy to wonder if this meeting was an attempt to move AHA out of the picture, and help cover it up as they were giving AHA the impression it was “final”.
- The man who accompanied Frank was a Hillsong/Hills CLC Elder, but Brian testified he was only there in the capacity of a personal friend to Frank.
B. Church business (when Brian spoke to Ps Taylor)
Brian said to Barbara Taylor that a meeting “had taken place between AHA and Frank Houston with an elder of CLC present”.
- This sounds like official church business! This sounds as if Brian and his organisation were dealing with the AHA matter in an official capacity. Brian didn’t give details.
- The man who accompanied Frank is attending as a “CLC elder” this time, no longer just as Frank’s personal friend as Brian told the Royal Commission.
- Brian’s response was in defense to a letter written in June 2000 by Ps Taylor, who was wondering if Brian and his church/AOGA were covering it up.
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TO SUPPORT THE THEORY OF COVER UP
- Between Frank’s confession to paedophilia in November 1999 and before July, 2000 when the McDonalds meeting occurred…
– Frank’s credentials had not been permanently removed.
– Frank was still employed by Sydney CLC.
– The AOGA executive had decreed on 12/1999 the matter was not to be made public. - Later “Hillsong City Church” failed to report Frank’s discipline when
registering with for a Working With Children Check (as requested by the department in August 2000). - The fresh batch of New Zealand sexual child abuse allegations had not yet surfaced (to the AOGA officialdom) and so AHA was the only victim that had come forward; thus his was the only matter to ‘manage’ or to keep quiet at this stage.
- Even after Frank confessed to other New Zealand abuses in November 2000, the
AOGA executive still agreed not to make the matter public. - Brian and the Hills CLC elders stopped Frank from signing his admission of guilt prepared by the AOGA executive in Nov 2000 after Frank confessed to NZ child sexual abuses to AOGA members.
On 28/11/1999 Ps Barbara Taylor handed over the AHA abuse case to Brian Houston. In June 2000, Ps Barbara Taylor challenged Brian Houston about the AHA matter because from where she was, it was looking like a cover-up. In his defense, Brian cited a meeting to demonstrate how the church had been dealing with it. He was referring to the McDonalds meeting.
“A meeting had taken place between AHA and Frank Houston with an elder of CLC present”.
(See June, 2000 letter from Barbara Taylor to Brian Houston, and her notes July 2000)
Now, was this meeting official church business or personal family business? And why is the distinction important? Because Brian had to justify to the RC why he hadn’t told the AOGA executive.
Brian argued that personal family business was outside the scope of the RC as the RC was only looking at institutional responses. If Brian thought it was family business, then Brian did not feel obliged to tell the AOGA executive either.
Implications:
- What Brian tells the RC or the AOG depends on what he decides is family business (including his role as a son).
- In addition, Barbara Taylor was deceived into thinking that the McDonalds meeting was official church business with the implied idea that AHA’s needs were being looked after.
LET THE WORD GAMES BEGIN
Below, Brian is telling the Royal Commission he felt no need to inform the AOG about Frank’s payment of money to AHA:
11/2015 Report of Case Study No. 18 – The response of the Australian Christian Churches and affiliated Pentecostal churches to allegations of child sexual abuse (PDF 822 KB) p32. Brian distancing himself & Hillsong from AHA payment at the
Royal Commission – Brian says it was in effect, family business:
The Daily Telegraph reported:
12/10/2014 Daily Telegraph reporting on the Royal Commission: Hillsong leader Brian Houston breaks silence on paedophile father: ‘It was wrong not to report him’.
Brian adamant Frank paying AHA $10,000 was NOT to do with church:He [Brian] said paying victim AHA had nothing to do with him despite the royal commission hearing the victim had contacted him about Frank Houston failing to pay as promised.
Two weeks later the $10,000 cheque was delivered.
“There have been reports of money being paid to the victim. Again for clarification, this was between my father and the victim. It had nothing to do with me or Hillsong Church,” he said.
As a son, Brian sees his actions as not relevant to the Royal Commission:
T89/P9399 – Brian making the distinction between acting as a son and in his professional capacity – as a son he believes what he did was not relevant to the RC. When at the lawyers, Brian checked the document Frank would give to AHA to sign to ensure it did not exclude AHA from going to the police.
Q. Did you go to Mallesons [lawyer] with Mr Saleh?
A. Yes. That was as a son, but I don’t see that going as a son has any relevance to institutional responses to child abuse.
Brian’s counsel also wants to distinguish between Brian’s roles:
Q. Let me put it to you this way, pastor: would it have been easier for you, and perhaps for Barbara, if you had appointed an independent person to deal with the [AHA] allegations?
MR HIGGINS [representing Brian Houston and Hillsong]: I object to this. The objection is on the basis that if he is being asked as the president of the national executive of the AOG, then that should be made clear as part of the question. If he is being asked did he take on the role as the son of Frank Houston, then that should be made clear, because I would object on the basis that it is not about an institutional response. That’s my objection.
It is evident that Brian and his council are deliberately forcing the Royal Commission to stay within their “Institutional response” parameters so they don’t glean information from Brian as “son”. (And this is a PASTOR being this manipulative to
This is a GREAT display of ‘conflict of interest’, in spite of Brian and the AOG arguing that Brian Houston never had one.
So what was the McDonalds Meeting About?
It was a meeting with AHA, initiated by Frank Houston, probably between September 1999 and July 2000. A family friend from Hills CLC (who happened to be an elder) accompanied Frank. At the meeting Frank Houston offered AHA $10,000 and said, “I want your forgiveness for this. I don’t want to die and have to face God with this on my head”.
AHA was passed a soiled napkin to sign. Frank Houston said, ‘Just do it and say you forgive me, and that’ll be it.‘ After AHA signed the napkin he was told by the unnamed man with Frank that a cheque would be sent to him and to contact Pastor Brian Houston if there was any problem.
AHA found the meeting distressing, Frank was obviously frail, stressed and fumbling because he could not find the proper document from Mallesons lawyers to sign, thus the napkin was used instead. There was nothing pleasant or healing about it from both sides. AHA had the uncomfortable task to phone Brian when the money was not forthcoming.
This meeting was the best AHA got from the Houstons, the church and AOGA.
Why was Frank allowed to contact AHA Directly?
You may be wondering how come this payment meeting was even happening given Brian’s report to the AOGA executive that AHA was so fragile and brittle. So brittle, according to Brian, that AHA didn’t want any church or police investigation or anyone to know his identity.
- If AHA was as brittle as Brian suggested, then why didn’t Brian nor the AOGA’s discipline process protect AHA from having the perpetrator contact him directly, without proper supervision and without AHA’s prior consent?
- It is most inappropriate that prior conversations, arrangements and the meeting even occurred:
– without a third party present, ensuring AHA’s wellbeing was protected;
– that he was supported and not compromised or intimidated. - Frank had refused to meet AHA with Ps Barbara Taylor in her office in early 1999 when requested, yet would “badger” AHA and his mother by phone.
Who was Ps Barbara Taylor?
Pastor Barbara Taylor was an advocate and support for the Australian victim, AHA, and had been knocking on the door of the AOG leadership since December 1998.
A year later, Brian Houston finally took over the case in October/November 1999, and only then, after a strong phone call from evangelist “Maddog Mudford” to Hills CLC, alerting Brian to the issue. After Brian heard Frank’s confession, Brian had a meeting with Barbara Taylor and John McMartin on 28 November, 1999. In this meeting Barbara Taylor was relieved that Brian Houston had taken over the case.
The following day Barbara Taylor sent a letter to Brian referring to their meeting. In it she thanked him and noted AHA received the news well that he had been believed, that Frank had not denied it and AHA was considering legal proceedings.
Note, this letter is important. Brian continues to claim AHA did not want any investigation from either church or legal authorities – this way Brian can justify why he didn’t report Frank to the police. On 29 November, 1999, AHA knew he was already being dealt with by church authorities and Ps Taylor’s letter made it clear to Brian that AHA was not so “brittle” after all as he had softened and was thinking about legal proceedings. AHA also wanted to know if Barbara Taylor had told Brian.
Over the next 6 months she heard nothing from Brian or the AOG. From Barbara Taylor’s perspective there was no evidence to suggest Brian nor the AOG were dealing with Frank’s paedophilia. Barbara Taylor was another victim in this saga – she did not get the support she needed from the AOG or Brian. She had believed the church would be the best option to deal with Frank, provide justice and support AHA. Barbara made some notes to speak with McMartin about her concern which showed how she saw her predicament:
Discussion notes made by Barbara Taylor around 21/12/1999 – highlights how she was feeling about the AHA matter at the time. [It is not clear if the conversation ever did happen with John McMartin (NSW AOG executive)]
25 June, 2000, Ps Barbara Taylor wrote another letter to Brian Houston, this time showing her frustration with the apparent lack of response from him and the Assemblies of God leadership, regarding Frank Houston’s child sexual abuse. Of all people, she had good reason to think Brian and the AOG were not dealing with it and may even be covering it up.
In response to her letter, Brian phoned Barbara Taylor almost a month later (Hillsong Conference was around that time – July 2000). He obviously was not happy with Barbara’s letter and tried to impress on her that they had been dealing with the matter. Barbara made notes of the conversation.
Here are the Notes from Barbara Taylor of her phone call from Brian Houston
19th July, 2000
Brian Houston rang me and said that :-
1) His father was receiving AOG Restoration Counselling
2) The National Executive had met to consider the matter
3) A meeting had taken place between AHA land Frank Houston with an
elder of CLC present.
4) He was very hurt by my letter
5) He had shown the letter to 3 executive members at Hillsong.
6) His father’s memory and health was failing
7) His father had been abused as a child.
8) He would speak to his mother about a meeting with me
9) He (i.e. Frank) has told the truth about what happened
10) Any future correspondence to be by ‘phone.
11) Two executive members had spoken to Maddog Mudford.
12) His father is very depressed.I said:- [Barbara Taylor]
1 ) Had he told me he was dealing with it the letter would not have been necessary.
2) I requested a meeting with Frank so he could get the resentment out.
3) I apologised for the timing of the letter (close to Hillsong)
4) AHA started going back to church.
5) I believe in restoration
6) I have forgiven his father.
[As an aside, a few key points to note about the phone call notes above:
a. A lot of focus was on Brian, Frank and his family.
b. Brian seemed to know little about the victim AHA.
c. The only thing that Brian cited that “gave” the illusion AHA had been given some personal attention and care, was that AHA had a meeting with Frank with a CLC elder present.
Brian pretended the shameful McDonalds meeting was an official meeting.
To the RC, Brian said this same elder was only there as a friend to Frank [family business]. It was important for Brian to distance himself and Hillsong from that meeting, and in effect, from Frank and AHA.
NOTE: Brian was the only AOG designated contact for both.
d. Brian did not mention he had made the matter public at services.
Hence it can be assumed Brian probably hadn’t told his church publicly at this stage about Frank’s paedophilia because he would have been trying to convince Ps Taylor he was not hiding it. Can we assume he had not told Hillsong Conference as well?
e. Makes you wonder what else Brian didn’t tell the RC or the AOGA because it was “family business”.
f. It suits Brian not to put things in writing, but do it by phone. No wonder Ps. Taylor was documenting all her correspondence. She wasn’t trusting how the matter was being handled. At the RC it was plain Brian did not properly document his dealings with the AHA matter, even if required by the Procedures Manual – for something so important and which had legal implications. And this is from the top man who is responsible for how the AOG organisation conducts itself properly and follows procedure.]
ROYAL RANT
Why don’t Hillsong followers do their homework and read the Royal Commission transcripts and evidence submitted?
They will find out their leader is incompetent at best and at worst, a morally corrupt man who tried to cover-up his father’s paedophilia and protect the image and reputation of his family name, his church dynasty, and the denomination in which his church is a major player.
Brian is now in PR mode, rewriting history since he has a platform, access to media and a book to tell you all about it. The victims have no voice and have been left without justice.
How do you the think the victims feel each time media channels give Brian yet another opportunity to spin his version of events to hide how badly he handled his father’s crimes and his lack of compassion and support for the victims?
Everyone knows it was Frank’s crimes but who does Brian think should support the victims? Brian and his family did not cooperate with victims and investigations and Brian blatantly tried to distance himself and the Hillsong brand from the victims of the past.
The Houstons boast of the blessings that God has poured out on them. Yet where was the generosity and compassion shown to Frank’s victims? Even a church love offering for the victims (which are not uncommon) would have shown support and care. (So what did Brian actually tell his congregations, and when?)
Yet Brian has the gall to pull out the poor-Brian card every time on TV to garner sympathy for why he didn’t report his father. Brian did not have to deal with his father, and shouldn’t have due to his conflict of interest. He chose to, and his AOGA executive team AND HILLSONG ELDERS should have stopped him.
You’ve seen above how Brian used the McDonalds meeting to deceive. He has also shown that he gets to decide what is family business or not, that is, to whom, when and what is disclosed. Brian decided that Frank offering final payment to AHA, and Brian accompanying Frank and the “elder” when seeking legal advice, did not need to be mentioned to the AOG.
Observe, no-one was witness to Frank’s confession to Brian.
What did Brian decide was father-son and what was AOGA business?
Brian has already submitted after the RC he heard Frank’s admission as a “religious confession” [link], trying to avoid being investigated for not reporting Frank to the police. [Note: Brian is quick to hide behind church tradition and the establishment when it suits him, yet denigrates it when marketing his successful, cutting edge, relevant church that breaks the mould.]
Brian operates in a mode where people are called to simply trust him, the man of God who operates in God’s authority evidenced by Hillsong’s success. However, it is incumbent on Brian to walk in integrity, to prove he is trustworthy. Unfortunately, Brian is more focussed on managing the Hillsong brand, image and growth. When facing the hard issues/questions, he has shown himself not to be truthful and frequently resorts to deceiving word games. Brian does not walk in integrity and those who call him out are disparaged (even the Royal Commission got a serve on national television by the Houstons).
Where are the men in Hillsong? Where is the discernment? (O, that’s right! Hillsong appeals to loyalty, unity, acceptance, and positivity, and the Hillsong faithful are regularly reminded.)
It is sad day when we need the world’s legal system to shine a light on Brian and the AOG’s dark mode of operation and their culture. There is something seriously broken and the church covers its ears, eyes and mouth. Brian and the AOG have lost its biblical and moral compass. It’s about the “cause” and that end is used to justify what should not be justified.
Read the transcripts below of the McDonalds meeting and you will see the focus, again, on Frank, and the church world. Where is the compassion, concern, protection and justice, and biblical discipline leading to repentance and forgiveness?
SOURCE / REFERENCES
McDonalds Meeting – References
Report of Case Study No. 18 – The response of the Australian Christian Churches and affiliated Pentecostal churches to allegations of child sexual abuse (PDF 822 KB) p31. This is a summary of the McDonalds meeting:
Transcript86/Page 9079 – AHA recalls the McDonalds meeting – AHA was in a state of panic, Frank was distressed and fumbling and wanted forgiveness for the $10,000 and to put an end to it, the “unnamed man” said to sign the spoiled napkin.
Q. But that doesn’t seem to have been the end of the money; is that right?
AHA-A. No, sir. In a phone call to my mother, he said he would pay $2,000 a month till the day he died. I think that was his attempt to cover his trail, in my personal belief. Then the phone calls kept coming after that, and that’s when he made the remark that, “We need to get and sort this out”, and that’s where the McDonald’s restaurant situation came to light.
Q. That’s the occasion where there was an apparent agreement to pay you $10,000; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. What did Pastor Frank want from you during that meeting?
A. He wanted me to forgive him.
Q. What else did he say about the $10,000 and what it was compensation for?
A. Him and the unnamed man basically were pushing me just to sign this piece of paper and to say that, provided I forgive him, “The money is yours.” That was the only connection to it. That was what he wanted.
Q. You say that you were asked by the unnamed man to sign a food-stained napkin; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there a document, like a typed document, that was put in front of you?
A. No.
Q. Did you subsequently sign some form of written agreement?
A. There was nothing, as far as I could tell, on the napkin, and at that stage, sir, I just want to tell you that I was in a state of panic, but as I could not see anything on it, I just scribbled my name on it and Frank kept badgering me about the forgiveness.
Q. Then I understand that there was some delay in the money; is that right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you spoke with Brian Houston about the money; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Was that the first time you had spoken to Brian Houston?
A. As far as I can recollect, sir, yes.
Q. You say in your statement that as far as you were aware, he seemed to know that money had been offered to you by his father?
A. Yes.
Q. You say half a month later, a cheque in the sum of $10,000 arrived in the post?
A. Yes.
12/10/2014 Daily Telegraph reporting on the Royal Commission: Hillsong leader Brian Houston breaks silence on paedophile father: ‘It was wrong not to report him’.
Brian adamant Frank paying AHA $10,000 was NOT to do with church.He said paying victim AHA had nothing to do with him despite the royal commission hearing the victim had contacted him about Frank Houston failing to pay as promised.
Two weeks later the $10,000 cheque was delivered.
“There have been reports of money being paid to the victim. Again for clarification, this was between my father and the victim. It had nothing to do with me or Hillsong Church,” he said.
Transcript88/Page 9333 Brian Houston says elder with Frank was only as friend
Q. Who was it?
A. It was a man called Nabi Saleh, who has been a lifelong friend of my father’s.
Q. Was he a member of Hillsong Church?
A. Yes, he was an elder of Hillsong Church. But he went along – first of all, by then, my father didn’t drive, so someone had to go with him. I didn’t want to be in it because of the conflict with Hillsong, and this was between Frank and [AHA]. So he really went there, if you like, in a pastoral, caring, friendship manner, to drive him there, sit with him, help him through the process and just be his friend.
Transcript88/Page 9335 Brian Houston viewed document – Frank was looking at $10,000 amount being final on document to be given to AHA at McDonalds meeting (doc was lost)
Q. What was on the document, apart from the three or so paragraphs?
A. I think it was just along the lines of, you know, we agree to this amount of money and we agree this amount of money is final and —
Q. If that is the situation, if it is likely that you knew before 22 December 1999, what were you hoping to achieve by not telling the special executive that such a payment had been made?
BH-A. Well, I’m not convinced I didn’t tell them.
Q. There is nothing after 22 December 1999 which indicates some formal report to the national executive which includes what payments were made?
A. To be honest, the payment in this sense had nothing to do with the national executive, because I was adamant that this was not about Hillsong; this was not about the Australian Assemblies of God. This payment was between Frank and [AHA].
Q. Was there any consideration about whether it was appropriate for Mr Saleh – excuse me, am I pronouncing his name correctly?
BH-A:Saleh.
Q. Was there any consideration of whether it was appropriate for him to attend?
A. Well, he was a family friend. That’s the only reason he went. And I don’t think that he considered that at all. He loved my dad and I think he just – all he was concerned about was looking after my father in terms of driving him there and being there to comfort him. Obviously, you know, for my father, it was probably a – you know, a difficult day, and he was just there literally to stand with him.
Transcript89/Page 9386. Brian Houston confirming the meeting in the notes of his phone call with Barbara Taylor was the McDonalds meeting
Q. Can I draw your attention to item number 3 in that . You will appreciate that we understand this document some notes that Barbara Taylor made of her conversation with you on the phone after you had received the letter I have just shown you?
BH-A.Yes, yes.
Q. Can you look to number 3. Do you recall, during the telephone discussion, a discussion about the meeting between [AHA] and Frank Houston, with an elder of CLC present?
A. I can’t say I recall a lot about that actual phone call at all, to be honest with you.
Q. Specifically in relation to that topic, do you have any memory – that is, number 3?
A. I couldn’t say, to be honest, that I do have a memory that we discussed this at that time.
Q. Is that a reference to the meeting that we have heard described as occurring at Thornleigh McDonald’s?
A. Yes.
Transcript89/Page 9384. RC asked Brian if the Commission should know about meeting with lawyers. He said it was between a father and son.
Q. Did you not think that it was a relevant matter for this Commission to know?
A. It could have been. Look, I can tell you now, there’s a multitude of things I could have talked about in this statement. I was given advice that, “You can’t possibly put everything in your statement.”
Q. But you didn’t think that a meeting with lawyers where you discussed your father’s situation in relation to [AHA] was relevant to this Commission?
A. Where I went, as my father’s son, to go to see a lawyer about my father, and this Commission is about institutional child abuse, so, in that sense, I don’t see that it was particularly relevant that I went to see a lawyer. It was something that was between a father and a son.
Transcript89/Page 9399. Brian says his actions as a son is not relevant to the Royal Commission. The lawyer visit with Saleh involved Brian looking over the McDonalds meeting document that Frank wanted AHA to sign in payment for AHA’s forgiveness, and the money was final.
Q. Did you go to Mallesons [lawyer] with Mr Saleh?
A. Yes. That was as a son, but I don’t see that going as a son has any relevance to institutional responses to child abuse.
Trans86/Page 9132 AHA tells about role of unnamed man at McDonalds meeting – Frank’s “business advisor“
Q. In relation to the meeting at McDonald’s, who suggested McDonald’s as a meeting place?
A. Again, that was because I had bought a house on the Central Coast and moved up out of there. Frank wanted a meeting place that was mutual for both of us.
Q. So do you recall who suggested McDonald’s?
A. It was Frank at that stage who mentioned McDonald’s.
Q. When you agreed to meet, were you expecting that a third party would be at the meeting?
A. No.
Q. So you were surprised when you arrived and there was a third party?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you introduced?
A. From memory – and it is vague – Frank said, “This is” – something about “my business adviser”, or something along those lines, but mainly Frank was talking to me about getting on with this and getting forgiveness from me. He was more concerned about dying and answering God for what he had done to me, and that was where that started from.
Q. And this third party – can you describe him?
A. From what I can remember of him, he was a short, stout man, balding, with a small moustache, but, again, I didn’t really look at him that much. He was on to my side and he had a hamburger he was pushing into his face and I couldn’t really get a good look at him.
Q. With the napkin that you signed, do you know what happened to that napkin?
A. No.
Q. You didn’t take it away with you?
A. No.
Q. Did you see Frank take it away with him?
A. I don’t remember who took it. I think the other person, the unnamed man, he grabbed it and crunched it up in his hands. But at that stage I was leaving the table. I just wanted to get away from the whole situation.
From AHA’s statement about the Redfern near-meeting and the McDonald’s meeting:
17. Although Pastor Taylor told Pastor McMartin of the AOG my story, I never received any correspondence or communication directly from anyone at Sydney CLC / Hillsong or from anyone in the AOG hierarchy itself about this matter. The only contact I had was from Pastor Frank himself who started calling me and my mother on a regular basis. The phone calls started coming about a week or two after I received the letter of 16 September 1999 from Pastor Taylor. I received several telephone calls from Pastor Frank over different periods. When he called me, he would say words to the following effect: “I want to get together to discuss some sort of money as a compensation to you … I don’t want this on my head when I stand in front of God.” The money was something that he brought up. It wasn’t something that I asked him for.
18. I eventually agreed to meet with Pastor Frank on or about early 2000. I decided to meet him because of his phone calls as I didn’t want to hear from him any longer and just wanted to get it over and done with. The meeting was at Redfern Station in Sydney. I attended that meeting but when I saw Pastor Frank pull up in his green Jaguar, I walked away. Seeing him bothered me and I did not want to be anywhere near him. Even being in the same State as him bothered me and I just didn’t want to connect with him.
19. Following the near-meeting at Redfern station, Pastor Frank continued to attempt to make contact with me and my mother. When he called me, he would say words to the following effect –
“Look, we need to meet. I want to organise some money for you, some compensation, and get this off.”
[During the Royal Commission hearing, after piecing together evidence that could be tied down to a time, AHA agreed the Redfern meeting was most probably to have been before the Barbara Taylor letter to him 16/9/1999.]
20. On or about late 2000, whilst Pastor Frank was still active in the church, I agreed to meet with him. The meeting was held at a McDonalds restaurant at Thornleigh, just up Pennant Hills Road. When I arrived at McDonalds, I saw Pastor Frank’s green Jaguar in the car park. Inside the restaurant I saw Pastor Frank sitting down next to a man whom I did not recognise [“the unnamed man”]. The unnamed man was eating a burger. Pastor Frank said words to the following effect:
“I want your forgiveness for this. I don’t want to die and have to face God with this on my head.”
The unnamed man then put a food-stained napkin down in front of me and words were said to the following effect
Unnamed man: “You put your signature there and I’ll give you the
$10,000.”
Pastor Frank: “Just do it and say you forgive me, and that’ll be it.”At this stage, I was nearly going into a panic. I just wanted to get away from the whole situation. I signed the napkin. The unnamed man said words to the following effect – “All right, I’ll be in touch. I’ll send you a cheque.”
Pastor Frank then said words to the following effect: “If there’s any problems contact me or Brian but you’ll get your money.”
I left the restaurant after that.
21. About two months after my meeting with Pastor Frank at McDonalds, I telephoned Brian Houston as I had not yet received any money from Pastor Frank. We had a conversation to the following effect:
Me: “What’s happening with the payment I was promised? I agreed to forgive your father.”
Brian: “Yes, ok, I’ll get the money to you. There’s no problem … You know, it’s your fault all of this happened. You tempted my father.”
Me: “Why, did he molest you also?”Brian got very angry after that. He slammed the phone down after saying words to the effect of: “You’ll be getting money.”
22. I’m certain that Brian Houston knew about the meeting that I had with Pastor Frank at McDonalds. I did not tell him about the meeting during our phone conversation however, he appeared to be aware of it and I therefore assumed that Pastor Frank had discussed it with him. Pastor Frank had also told me I could call Brian Houston if there was a problem so that made me believe that Pastor Frank would speak to Brian about the agreement made at McDonalds.
23. About half a month later a cheque in the sum of $10,000 arrived in the post. There was no correspondence of any sort with the cheque. I can not recall who the drawer of the cheque was.
Trans86/Page 9112 AHA corrects his estimate about the timing of the Redfern meeting and the Thornleigh meeting
Q. Still with your points of reference, if you go to paragraph 17, at least in that statement you say:
The only contact I had was from Pastor Frank himself who started calling me and my mother on a regular basis. The phone calls started coming about a week or two after I received the letter of 16 September 1999 from Pastor Taylor.
A. Yes, that was incorrect. It was earlier than that, before that date – the letter had arrived.
Q. So is it correct that you were in contact with Frank Houston in the months before receiving the letter of 16 September 1999?
A. Yes.
Q. Was it during that time that you were in contact with him in the months before 16 September 1999 that you had, firstly, this meeting at Redfern railway station?
A. Yes.
Q. And the meeting at McDonald’s at Thornleigh?
A. No, that came later.
Correspondence between Ps Barbara Taylor and Brian Houston
In June, 2000, Ps Barbara Taylor wrote to Brian, upset that the AHA matter wasn’t being dealt with:
Letter from Ps Barbara Taylor to Brian Houston 29/11/1999 – AHA accepted the that the church organisation was looking into his case, he was pleased he had been believed and AHA was wanted to know if Brian was told AHA was thinking legal proceedings.(yes)
[Handwriting notes are by Ps. Barbara Taylor.]
Hillsong City Church not reporting Frank’s discipline
2015 Report of Case Study No. 18 – From the RC report – “Hillsong City Church” did not report Frank Houston to the New South Wales Commission for Children and Young People, as requested below. pg. 42
167. On 7 August 2000, the [New South Wales Commission for Children and Young People] CCYP sent a letter to the Business Manager at Hillsong City Church acknowledging Hillsong City Church’s registration for a Working with Children Check. The letter stated that ‘[I]t is important to remember that any completed relevant disciplinary proceedings must be reported to the [CCYP]’.172 The requirement applied to all disciplinary proceedings including those completed in the five years before the commencement of the Commission for Children and Young People Act 1998 (NSW) in 2000.
168. Mr Aghajanian accepted that Hillsong Church did not report the suspension of Frank Houston and the withdrawal of his credential to the Commission for Children and Young People. He said ‘the matter was overlooked due to a lack of understanding at the time in the context of complying with the comprehensive legislative child protection regime that came into force in and around the year 2000. ‘340
Transcripts noting Keith Ainge giving evidence about the lack of reports to the AOG executive, no independent investigation, Brian is the only source of information to the AOGA executive meeting, that procedure wasn’t followed, that the AOGA was relying on what Brian Houston said about the complainant not wanting it to go to the police, no payment to AHA was mentioned to the AOGA.
Transcript88/ Page 9263-4: Keith Ainge talking about Brian Houston being the conduit of information between the AOGA executive and the victim and perpetrator.
Q. Let’s wind back. So you’re saying if there is no complaint in writing, then, effectively, the whole process under the Administration Manual is put to one side?
KA-A. I’m not suggesting that. I’m saying that at the meeting that we attended, with limited access to any advice, the decision that was arrived at was that with no complaint in writing, it was difficult to proceed, particularly since we couldn’t appoint anyone to contact the complainant because he refused to be identified.
Q. That was on the basis of what Brian Houston had told you; isn’t that right?
A. It was on the basis of what Brian Houston told us, yes.Q. Let’s just wind back, then. You’re aware, certainly today, of a letter of 16 September 1999, that was written by Barbara Taylor to Pastor McMartin, aren’t you?
A. I’m aware of it now. I was not aware of it at the time of this meeting.
Q. Was it put to the meeting or did somebody inform the meeting that such a letter containing an allegation of child sexual abuse against Frank Houston by a named complainant had been provided to the state executive officer?
A. To the best of my knowledge, no.
Q. So after 16 September we know that no state officer was appointed to commence the complaint procedure under these guidelines; is that right?
A. That’s correct.
Q. Were you aware of whether an independent person had been appointed to liaise directly with [AHA]?
A. I was not aware of that.
Q. In fact, you weren’t aware of [AHA]’s name at all, were you?
A. No.
Q. Did you ask whether an independent person had been appointed to liaise with the complainant at the meeting on 22 December 1999?
A. I don’t recall whether that question was asked.
Q. By you or by anybody else?
A. By me or by anyone else.
Q. You say that the conduit for information about the allegation – so I’m just going to focus on the allegation at the moment – was Brian Houston; is that correct?
A. Yes, that’s correct.
Q. And I think Wayne Alcorn was aware of an allegation; is that right?
A. Yes, that’s correct.
Q. But effectively it was Brian Houston who communicated the allegation to the meeting?
A. To my knowledge, Wayne Alcorn had no knowledge of the substance of the allegation.
Q. Was any indication given to you that a full interview with the complainant had taken place prior to the meeting on 22 December 1999?
A. My understanding from that meeting was that the complainant didn’t wish to be interviewed and didn’t wish to have any contact with us.
Q. And that came from Brian Houston?
A. It came from Brian Houston, yes.
Q. Was any step taken to provide contact through an independent person, namely, somebody who wasn’t related to the perpetrator, to establish that fact?
A. No.
Q. Was any indication given to you that a full interview with the complainant had taken place prior to the meeting on 22 December 1999?
A. My understanding from that meeting was that the complainant didn’t wish to be interviewed and didn’t wish to have any contact with us.
Q. And that came from Brian Houston?
A. It came from Brian Houston, yes.
Q. Was any step taken to provide contact through an independent person, namely, somebody who wasn’t related to the perpetrator, to establish that fact?
A. No.
Transcript88/ Page 9268: Keith Ainge talking about no report provided to the AOGA about Frank answering the allegations. Procedure ignored.
Q. There is a process whereby, I think you agreed, a report is prepared by the state executive, with recommendations to go up to the national executive under the administration policy. Do you agree with that?
A. Yes.
Q. And you would also agree that at the meeting on 22 December, no written report was provided by Brian Houston or by anybody else at that stage?
KA-A. No.
Q. And no recommendations were made by the state executive to be considered by the national executive, were they?
A. At that stage, it hadn’t been considered by the state executive, to my understanding.
Transcript88/ Page 9275: Keith Ainge talking about relying on Brian Houston for information about in regards going to the police..
Q. And that you were relying on what Brian Houston said to you about the complainant not wanting it to go to the police; is that correct?
KA-A. Correct.
Q. And you had not had the matter assessed by an independent person?
A. That’s correct.
Q. And you had not had an independent person appointed to deal with the complainant?
A. That’s correct.
Q. On that basis, you determined that there was no need to refer the complaint to the police?
A. That’s correct.
Transcript88/ Page 9277: Keith Ainge, AOGA executive being interviewed
– Frank paying AHA was not mentioned at the AOGA executive meeting.Q. Was there any discussion, first of all, at the meeting on 22 December 1999 about the payment of money by Frank or Brian Houston to the complainant?
A. At the meeting in 1999, there was no discussion in relation to that.
Q. And you would have noted that if there was?
A. Yes.
From Inside Story: True Believers – Brian spoke to Inside on Channel 9 on 11/2/2016. Brian Houston sees AHA “brittle”
Brian mentioned that when he [AHA] came forward he was 36 or 37 years old. And he was very adamant he did not want to involve the police or church authorities.
BH: And so, he [AHA] was brittle and I think that um, because of that I didn’t see the police as an option.
Hillsong Church Watch 
Shows that Brian calmly and stealthily changed hats to avoid legal and financial repercussions. Not the behaviour of someone disabled by anxiety and PTSD
I’m just curious, does anyone at ChurchWatch or ChurchWatch members / followers feel, think or believe there is anything positive about Hillsong? Or, anything positive Hillsong are doing?
Cheers,
Dave
More importantly and on topic, do you see anything manipulative, unlawful, deceptive, evil, lying and unloving towards a raped child/ adult in these documents?
Well said Debra,
But for David’s sake, I got “saved” in a Pentecostal church but then had to be deprogrammed and detoxed to become a healthy Christian. So much of the hype & bull was very damaging.
Ive come to the conclusion that salvation has a lot more to do with God’s grace, calling & election rather than any denominational takes on evangelism or man’s efforts.
So, when it comes to salvation, its God’s work alone and Hillsong or anyone else don’t factor in much at all. You just need a lot more deprogramming when you get out if you get “saved” in the Pentecostal deal.
David! Are sou serious?
You have just been shown slam dunk evidence of Brian Houston’s evil and lack of regard for victims that his father raped.
Your segway is Houstonesque to the max!
Do you understand what a conflict of interest is?
“I’m just curious, does anyone at ChurchWatch or ChurchWatch members / followers feel, think or believe there is anything positive about Hillsong? Or, anything positive Hillsong are doing?”
@David, Do you think there is anything positive about Brian Houston’s false gospel sending people to hell?
“and Hillsong or anyone else don’t factor in much at all”
Correction: and Hillsong or anyone else don’t factor in AT ALL.
People can hear The Gospel anywhere they happen to hear it, that’s only by God’s grace that He made it that simple. It’s not by Hillsong’s genius or preaching. People wrongly give Hillsong far too much credit. Hillsong has done great damage to the Body of Christ. People could get saved almost anywhere, but if they’re a true Wheat, they’ll eventually have to leave whoever is telling lies because the lies will bother them so badly.
Hi David,
As a former Hillsong member I can tell you that I believe the vast majority of people at Hillsong who profess to love God and believe in Jesus actually do just that. When I was there I was 100% for the Lord.
Now I am far enough away from it all and can see it very clearly.
The ‘Leaders’ at Hillsong make financial gain off the back of Jesus’ name. They Gospels and NT are fairly clear regarding how Jesus responded to people and their love of money. He turned tables over.
this issue is Christendom.
But let’s focus on Hillsong:
Just because lots of people there love God doesn’t justify the evil deeds of those in charge.
The members might as well meet in their homes and throw on a cd, put money in a bucket and use it for the poor and needy.
The issue is that Hillsong is a business. It needs money to run. It’s a ‘thing’. Jesus did not come to build ‘churches’ or ‘temples’. He came to dwell within believers and lead them every day. This is the reality of the believer’s walk with God.
You do not need to go to Hillsong to walk with God.
You do not require a temple to meet with God.
True worship is in Spirit and in Truth.
John 4… A passage worth meditating on.
You find the institutional ‘church’ nowhere in that chapter.
F. Houston: “I want your forgiveness for this. I don’t want to die and have to face God with this on my head.”
But F. Houston was ok with paying out hush money?
What bucket of funds was that hush money coming from?
Hopefully out of F. Houston’s own pocket and not from ‘tithes and offerings.’
Out of curiosity do the Hillsong sunday envelopes have some box you can check that’s designated for stuff like megachurch megadisasters?
In these documents it seems that Brian is trying to skilfully separate Hillsong and himself from any connection to his fathers crimes. Unfortunately for Brian, if he wanted to keep it all separate, he should’ve handed Frank over to the police in the first place.
The fact that he protected and sheltered Frank will forever tie him to his old mans crimes( unless he sincerely repents). In this case – you can’t have it both ways!
No amount of repentance, sincere or otherwise, will remove the albatross around his neck as far as man is concerned.
He sheltered a kiddy fiddler from justice, he is tarred with that forever now.
He will face the music, he will be shamed before the world.
Let’s hope and pray that this will come soon and the victims will get some measure of justice
Brian wan’t be charged for anything the time for that has well passed.
“Brian wan’t be charged for anything the time for that has well passed.”
Because that is how our law system works?
Too many Christians operate out of the idea that “Time covers a multitude of sins”. You’re one of them. Is it possible for you to show any form of Godly conviction in your posts?
“Brian wan’t be charged for anything the time for that has well passed.”
@David, Tell your unethical code to God on Judgement Day in reference to all those who will be punished for their sin. Tell God their sins don’t matter anymore because too much time has passed. I for one will be ready to laugh you out.
Brian Houston’s evidence sounds very ‘questionable’. I would not like to be him standing before God one day to explain his version.
David,
“Brian won’t be charged…”
And as a Christian are you concerned for the victims if that be the case David?
Debra,
“And as a Christian are you concerned for the victims if that be the case David?”
Brian not getting charged or getting charged will have no effect on the victims. Brian was not the perpetrator..
“Brian was not the perpetrator..”
David:
Stop lying #1. He shielded his father.
Stop lying #2. He failed to compensate the victims.
Stop lying #3. He collects tithes.
The fact is this: What emerged from the Royal Commission is that Brian is a law unto himself. He submits to nobody.
1. He did not report his father to the police. He broke the laws of the land.
2. He did not follow AOG procedures. He broke the laws of AOG president and as the pastor of Hillsong Church.
3. He swore on the Word of God to tell the truth at the Royal Commission but people saw him evade questions and play tricky word games. He broke his promise to God and His Word by swearing on the bible and then being inconsistent with his testimony.
4. He disrespected the crown. We interviewed people there. Not even the panel were impressed by Houston’s rude behaviour at the Royal Commission, especially when he attacked the poor woman outside for asking him a question (which he later lied about and claimed that he was attacked by a protestor).
5. He lied to his Hillsong congregation and cared more about himself than his own church. That is, he lied by omission. A “moral failure” does not even come close to suggesting that his dad was a paedophile. It’s alright to ask his own kids if they were touched by his dad. So why didn’t he be upfront with his church and ask that question? That’s alright. Pat Mesiti got the flick for sleeping around. Venn Brown was shown the door for coming out. Orehek was expelled by Hillsong for his scheme. So obviously Hillsong has some “moral” and “ethical” code of conduct. So how has Houston’ lies and cover-up not broken any of Hillsong’s rules? Why wasn’t he challenged by some of his elders for playing with the truth?
6. He contradicts himself. Just look at the media reports and you will see him change his stories. This means he is not accountable to even himself. He is a broken man that refuses to repent of his actions but justifies his actions of cover-up.
David – is anything going to convince you that Brian Houston is a bad tree with bad fruit?
7. Brian Houston is broken and doesn’t want to repent.
Frank Houston died in his sins not knowing if he was going to heaven. Frank was tormented. Brian Houston even failed as both a pastor and a son for Frank. He couldn’t even lead his father to Jesus and has no clue if Frank is in heaven or hell.
Brian has had over 15 years to clean up and repent of his lies over this specific sin (not to mention all of his lies in his sermons about God). He hasn’t. He simply bandaids the situation by writing a book (Live Love Lead), spinning the events to suit his agenda. (Honestly and authentically of course!)
He is an incredibly tormented man. A man that has gained the whole world and lost his soul. He may have the biggest Christian empire – but look what it cost him: no comfort, no salvation and no stability. Just listen to how he struggled for years in depression with no one around to comfort or minister the gospel to him. He was in fear and darkness.
Take him out of Hillsong and put him in front of a Royal Commission and you see a very pathetic, unstable, deceptive, powerless, shame-filled, angry man. Brian has broken away from God and his own testimony even confirms this.
So David, can you think of something Brian hasn’t broken in all this?
“Brian not getting charged or getting charged will have no effect on the victims.”
David:
Stop lying #5: You don’t know that. It might help bring some of them closure. Stop speaking for the victims.
Stop lying #6: Victims getting proper compensation definitely would help bring closure.
David,
“Brian not getting charged or getting charged will have no effect upon the victims.”
That statement is just sheer ignorance. Brian sheltered and protected their rapist. He colluded with the pedo to protect him from gaol. There are many victims that have not identified themselves yet, for a variety of psychological reasons but they will as they come out of denial at certain milestones of their lives and when they fully realise what was done to them. And they will cry out for justice!
It is a well known fact among clinicians and layman alike, that a crucial part of the healing process for victims of CSA is receiving justice for the loss of their childhoods and the havoc done to their whole lives and all of their relationships. For Frank’s victims, where is their justice now? If Brian had OBEYED the LAW and reported Frank to the police they would have some sense of recompense – but he set himself above the law and deprived the victims of even that small mercy! I can assure you Frank’s victims both those that have been identified, and those yet to come forward, will be seriously affected if Brian’s isn’t charged.
Do a bit of research before you make such sweeping and erroneous statements about victims of CSA.
Time for you David has well passed. Its not a game of poker where you can bluff your opposition to win its a sexual assault on a child, rape! Someone has to pay. Your excuses are typical of a hillsong sheep or should i say a wolf in sheep’s clothing. WHAT WOULD JESUS DO? David, WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?
Milligan
“David”
“Stop lying”
#1. He shielded his father”
False
“Stop lying #2. He failed to compensate the victims”
Hillsong and Brian were not the perpetrators
Stop lying #3. He collects tithes.
I dodn’t see your point ALL church’s collect tithes
“I dodn’t see your point ALL church’s collect tithes”
How dare you David smear the body of Christ once again in your ignorance. By what authority do you claim that Christianity peddles the tithing heresy? Your own?
Not all the Christian church preaches and collects the tithe. You are basically saying that Christianity is willfully defrauding the masses for shameful gain. That is distasteful.
David. The tithe heresy started in Roman Catholic cults. It resurfaced again with the NAR cult and the HAW cults. We admit that some church pastors are ignorant on such a ruthless doctrine. However, if members of their churches sat down with them and walked them through a bible study on the tithe and the writings of the early church fathers, they will repent of such a destructive doctrine.
Generally a good test to see if a church is faithful or not to God and the congregants is to examine if they teach the tithe or not (or sing Hillsong music).
no Milligan, not ALL churches collect tithes. Tithes were for the Old Testament priesthood to sustain them. We are a New Testament people with the ultimate prophet, priest and king in heaven; Jesus Christ. People make offerings, not tithes, to churches. Please read your bible in context.
*David not Milligan…Apologies for that
“no Milligan, not ALL churches collect tithes.”
Chris youand I are saying the same thing. Im saying Houston collects tithes, NOT all churches. its mainly a word faith DISEASE,. But LEGITIMATE churches don’t tell their members to tithe
Houston is a Bible twister and David is a word game player.
“You don’t need to take the high road and belittle me every time I make a point.”
Your point was WRONG as usual.
“an offering, collection, tithe”
NO! “Tithe” does not exist in new testament, it is a LIE. It is NOT the same thing. It is palmed off as an OBLIGATORY TEN PERCENT. STOP LYING.
“I dodn’t see your point ALL church’s collect tithes”
Stop lying #7: David yet ANOTHER lie. NOT ALL churches collect tithes. You lie like the devil.
“How dare you David smear the body of Christ once again in your ignorance”
Stop twisting my words and making the claim that I’m smearing the body of Christ. My point was simple, all churches collect tithes, collect an offering (or whatever you want to call it) from church members.
If church’s didn’t take up an offering, collection, tithe then they would not exist, for a lot of Church’s that is there only revenue stream. I simply meant all Church’s ask for money from attendees in some way shape or form to keep the church running. You don’t need to take the high road and belittle me every time I make a point.
“all churches collect tithes,”
LIE.
“If church’s didn’t take up an offering, collection, tithe then they would not exist, for a lot of Church’s that is there only revenue stream.”
NO that’s not what this is about! not tithing is robbing God’s “heart for the earth”. WHAT LIES!
“Malachi 3 says, bring the tithe and offering, bring it into the house of God that there might be food in my house. And in context it’s saying when you withhold or draw back you actually rob God, well we don’t rob God because we can’t rob God, but we rob His heart for the earth…”
https://hillsongchurchwatch.com/2015/12/01/bobbie-if-you-dont-give-money-to-hillsong-youre-robbing-gods-heart-for-the-earth/
And YOU david said hillsong doesnt teach tithing anymore. Bobbies lie was Dec 2015.
When YOU members are compelled to LIE to cover for THEIR LIES, you know this is a CULT
I think it’s interesting to note the comment about ‘the church’s’ need for an offering or tithe to sustain itself.
You just don’t see this in the NT anywhere.
The ‘church’ has replaced the work of God’s HS in guiding and teaching the believer.
I’m two years out of ‘church’ and the Lord is my Shepherd (Poimen-Pastor). He guides me just fine and my discernment regarding my sin is ‘on point’.
Now you’re playing with words David – you know the difference between giving and tithing. Your word games are not appreciated or helping anyone. Can you please be honest in your dialogue?
Milligan
“Stop lying #5: You don’t know that. It might help bring some of them closure. Stop speaking for the victims.”
Brian was not the perpetrator so it would not effect them.
Stop lying #6: Victims getting proper compensation definitely would help bring closure.
Hillsong are not responsible for compensation…It happened before Hillsong was established, Frank was the pastor of a Church in New Zealand when the crimes took place, this church was not associated with Hillsong. Hillsong don’t have to pay compensation because the Church nor any of it’s employees were involved when the crimes took place.
“Hillsong don’t have to pay compensation because the Church nor any of it’s employees were involved when the crimes took place.”
Yet after the fact F. Houston kept his retirement. After the fact B. Houston was still Franks son and acc’d to the timeline he shielded his father AND exposed more kids.
Nobody buys your story. STOP LYING.
ChurchWatch
“Too many Christians operate out of the idea that “Time covers a multitude of sins”. You’re one of them. Is it possible for you to show any form of Godly conviction in your posts?”
You are reading too much into my comment. All I am saying is that the Royal Commission has already handed out it findings and those finding did not included Brian being charged. I am saying it looks like on face value that he won’t be charged and the commission is moving on.
David. Senior Council Simeon Beckett for the Royal Commission has clearly recommended in the findings that Brian Houston face criminal charges for not reporting Frank Houston. These are the men and one woman who colluded with Brian Houston to shelter the pedophile Frank Houston from the NSW authorities and NSW police. Pastor Robert Ferguson a senior hillsong pastor.George Aghajanian the Hillsong business manager.Bobbie Houston Brian’s wife co-head pastor of Hillsong church.Nabi Saleh former owner of Gloria Jeans and long time CLC-Hillsong elder. Pastor John Lewis of Townsville QLD AOG -ACC. John Lewis turned a blind eye to it and didn’t fulfil his duty to report Frank Houston to NSW police. Formally on the AOG Executive. John McMartin Inspire Church in Liverpool president of the NSW ACC. Pastor Wayne Alcorn Hope Centre Brisbane and current ACC president AOG executive.Pastor Ian Woods Hawksbury AOG late 1990’s to 2000 hid the pedophile Frank Houston up the sleepy Hawksbury away from awkward questions. Pastor Joel A’bell head of Hillsong Australia and Hillsong Pastor for 25 years,Brian’s puppet. Pastor Keith Ainge now of Desert church Alice Springs AOG Secretary late 1990’s. Pastor Brian Houston of Hillsong deprived sexual abuse victims of Frank Houston any justice by not reporting him to the NSW police. The men and one woman protected him and kept him away from prosecution and the NSW police and other authorities. The next step in the judicial process is for Brian Houston and the other culpable leaders to be charged by the NSW police with pedophile protection crimes and face a public trial in the NSW court system. Watch this space David. Read the recommendations of Senior Council of the Royal Commission it is very clear. You must of missed that bit.
Brian Houston will be charged, convicted and sentenced.
It will be in all the papers
The truth of his wickedness will be made known.
It wont hurt Hill$ong though
Hillsong will continue as per usual because of the brain washed cult members
Like David.
They will think poor Brian is the victim of satanic attack
And the victims are evil, bitter and unforgiving.
Hillsong will be playing their music in hell one day
Hellsong.
‘Angels…’, what is the status quo as far as Brian Houston is concerned?
Is the government proceeding further to nail him?
“All I am saying is that the Royal Commission has already handed out it findings and those finding did not included Brian being charged.”
Do you know what the Royal Commission is?
David,
Your hero Brian will be charged for concealing a serious offence which can carry a jail sentence. This is for his crime of not reporting hid father’s crime to the police.
Simeon Beckett, lead barrister for the crown, recommended to the royall commission that Brian be charged. That is a matter for the NSW Police and the Attorney Generals dept. They have up to 2 years to charge him once an investigation has begun.
The findings of the RC relative to Brian Houston and the ACC AOG provided grounds for criminal charges.
If it is determined that he deprived his victims by protecting his paedo father from the police he may well face civil action and sued by his father’s victim.
Why do you live in absolute denial of the truth?
Answer me, you who sides with paedo and their protectors.
Milligan
There is no need to call me liar all the time, things get lost in translation so calm down and take a breather…
The bone of contention is Brian not telling the police.. I agree Brian should have, Brian admits it was a mistake, and he told the church about his mistake.
I have heard Brian’s explanation and I believe him, I’m sure you have as well and I presume you don’t believe him.
I’m confident that he will not be charged. This does not make me liar as you love to accuse me of. It mean’s I have a different opinion.
Captain Dilley
“Why do you live in absolute denial of the truth?”
I’m not living in denial I just don’t think he will be charged. Brian admits not telling the police was a mistake.. But he did not hide it, he fired his father, told the church
and informed the leadership etc etc…
IF he had not fired him, IF he had kept it to himself , IF he moved his father to preach at another church then yes that would be a cover up..but that isn’t the case…
So naive.
David,
“making a mistake” is no excuse for concealing a very serious crime from the police. Neither is ignorance an excuse.
No judge or jury would believe for a moment that Brian’s failure to report the crime to the police was not influenced by
1 his relationship to the perpetrator
2 His financial interest in Sydney CLC.
You may accept he “made a mistake” – no one else will, its obvious that he benefited by protecting his father from prosecution.
He is screwed if this goes to court, & it will, have no doubt about it.
The vast majority of Australians can see through his charade and will be baying for his blood if the courts dont give satisfaction.
He is the pentecostal version of Cardinal Pell and his actions are rightfully hated by many.
“he fired his father”
Brian Houston did not fire his father in 1999. Frank Houston “retired” in November 2000.
“Brian Houston did not fire his father in 1999. Frank Houston “retired” in November 2000.”
That is absolutely sickening.
“he fired his father”
Seems as though this david fellow gets his ‘facts’ all mixed up quite often.
“If church’s didn’t take up an offering, collection, tithe then they would not exist, for a lot of Church’s that is there only revenue stream.”
Contrary to popular opinion at Hillsong, God does not rely on or need Hillsong. God does not need our money in order to spread the Gospel or to accomplish His purpose. God is not anxious or needy even though Hillsong would have you believe that. He does not sit there anxiously waiting on pins and needles for tithes worrying what will happen if the finances don’t come in.
Luke 10:3-4. “Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves. Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road.”
Andrew Scipione…
David,
“Andrew Scipione…”
Seriously? No way will Skippy pervert the course of justice for his buddy Brian.
Every eye that matters is on him to see if he will & he runs the risk of losing everything so close to retirement, Skip would throw Brian under the bus & dont you doubt that for a second.
Last thing Skip needs is to have people looking too close for too long at his association with church.
Nope, Brian is all on his own for this one.
Captain Dilley
“Seriously? No way will Skippy pervert the course of justice for his buddy Brian.”
I completely agree, although I don’t think he will need to pervert the course of justice to not charge Brian, that would be good policing.In my opinion.
David,
If you think it is “good policing” not to prosecute Brian Houston for breaking the law then you are insane.
You should be locked in a room with the parents and loved ones of victims for “re-education”. If you survived the process, perhaps you may become a better person.
But for now, you fail dismally and you are a perfect example of why the unsaved hate anything to do with church. You, Houston and Pell belong in a cell together. You could be their little girl, or boy.
“You, Houston and Pell belong in a cell together. You could be their little girl, or boy.”
Leaving a child alone with Frank Houston? That is scary.
David how would you feel if Frank Houston had molested your little child? I bet you’d be a whole lot more angry than you are now.
Oh . … Of course! nudge nudge wink wink say no more.. Christianity is all about nepotism and undue influences. You’ve really got the insider info there! And it all smells like a rose …
Debra,
That message was a mistake, the whole message was not posted..
“Christianity is all about nepotism and undue influences.”
When ‘Ps’ Brian has to resort to friends pulling strings to get him off, notice how that is already an indirect admission of ‘Ps’ Brian’s guilt.
Look at big picture again David. Please read this personal testimony of someone who’s had a severe spiritual crisis due to their own sexual abuse.
From “A pastoral theology for the sinned against: adult Christian women sexually abused as children”, American Journal of Pastoral Counselling, Vol.3, Issue 3-4, 2001.
“Why did God make me? And for what purpose did He make me? If I meant something to Him, why didn’t He show it? Why couldn’t anybody see it? Nothing I was got left untouched, unbroken or involved.
Not my body, my mind, my emotions, my sexuality, my nationality, my self-esteem, my opinions, my understanding, my comprehension, my way of doing things or not doing things…..
My mind is full of confusion, painful memories, distorted ways of thinking and reasoning. I can see things through veils and veils and veils of past experiences and vision of the past pain and abuse. I hear things through scarred and distorted, damaged eardrums of the past.
It is scary not to trust what I hear. It is scary to relive hurtful memories when familiar words that cut like a knife come slicing through the present out of the past, leaving me bewildered, insecure, judged, criticized, hurt, and lost again.
With the heart that was shattered, broken, crushed and hurt with the irregular heartbeats caused by the walls of anger, mistrust, unforgiveness, hatred and resentment to keep out the giants of rejection and abandonment, He wants me to love Him with all my heart, my mind, my soul and all my strength?
He knew I would get ripped apart by all those events and people He allowed in my life.
Now it’s time for me to become related to Him as my Father and me His daughter? It really hurts me to write all this I’m thinking about Him.I feel guilty and scared for it. I’m angry at myself for sinful choices I make, the wrong responses to Him and others.
I don’t believe what He says in His word and that scares me too. I think what scares me the most is the part of me that quess Him, is angry at Him, could care less sometimes and feels nothing for Him or others; yet I am supposed to love others as I love myself.
There’s a tug of war going on inside of me. I want Him to have the key to my heart and I want to believe He cares about me and I’m worth something to Him and there is a good purpose to my being alive…..
I want to know that I’m special to Him for at least ONE SMALL MOMENT BEFORE LEAVING THIS WORLD (Anonymous, spacing added, pp.191-192).
If Anonymous ever reads this, you certainly are special.
I pray your piece heals abuse survivors through your putting into words what many people are unable to express.
I pray that your words help soften the hardened heart/s, the hearts who would prefer church leaders (and those who cover up abuse) to maintain the status quo than look after abuse survivors.
I wonder how much the RC has cost ? I don’t know myself but I think you could conclude that it’s a very expensive exercise. Will it stamp out paedophilia in Australia?
It’s shone a lot of light in very dark places and we’ve seen the cockroaches scuttling and running for cover – but stamp out paedophilia? What a wonderful world for innocent little children that would be.
For the RC to be worth our tax money and be truly effective it needs to hit hard at the pedo’s support system and enablers in both the family and institutions. Fear of gaol time would be a deterrent to anyone who wants to protect their pedo family member or institution. Then the majority of pedos would end up in gaol where they belong, instead of their victims 20 years down the line.
ChurchWatch
You have screened some of my posts that were mild, and have told me to post with maturity.
Yet, you let those that support this site post the most terrible things. I can’t believe the double standards…
Why didn’t you block this post said about me ? …Insinuating that I belong in jail being raped by Frank.
“You, Houston and Pell belong in a cell together. You could be their little girl, or boy”.
David, I agree that that last sentence was at best very badly worded. Perhaps it should have been “someone like you *could have been* Frank Houston’s little boy (etc.)”
People also need to remember – and continue making it clear – that everyone knows Brian Houston and George Pell have not been accused of any pedophilia themselves at all.
The sentiment expressed in previous blunt comment I agree with however.
“You should be locked in a room with parents and loved ones of victims for re-education.”
From your comments it does sound like you have no insight into what all abuse survivors (and loved ones) have to go through every day.
You also showed no desire to learn from Kreewater’s detailed answer to you, shown by a very noticeable absence of a response from yourself. https://hillsongchurchwatch.com/2016/01/10/another-hillsong-paedophile-scandal-brian-caught-lying-and-trashing-victim/#comment-26691
She did not have to take the time to answer you personally. The least you could have done was to acknowledge what she’d said, whether you agreed with her or not.
Thinker
Thanks for your response. I must admit I did not know how to to respond to Kreewater. I specifically asked ChurchWatch not to involve her as I did not feel comfortable putting her in that position hence my lack of response.
Kreewater, I apologize if you thought my lack of response was flippant, I read the entirety of your post and believe your recollection of events.
David – Kreewater often comments on these sites. Her involvement was entirely her own decision.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Perhaps “not knowing what to say” is one of the few negatives that people who haven’t experienced abuse/ personal tragedies of any variety (yet).
It’s OK to explain to abuse survivors you honestly don’t understand what they’ve gone through because you haven’t been abused yourself. I had one acquaintance (sexual abuse) say she resented people telling her “they understood”, knowing full well they couldn’t possibly unless they had also been abused.
They need acceptance and love way more than being understood (in an intellectual sense). They need to be believed. They need to be validated. They need to be heard.
It takes courage to start to speak about abuse; to then be dismissed or brushed off by a potential hearer adds more pain and injury to the already deeply wounded.
David – somehow a few comments bypassed moderation. You would be surprised to see how many don’t make it through.
We ask all commenters to choose your words carefully.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
David,
I don’t know what world you live in but, in this one I think it is fair to say that if “someone like you” took up the same argument that you have presented, defending Brian Houston’s actions of sheltering his father from the police, here in the real word, say in a pub in Ballarat (or any pub for that matter), with a group of people that he didn’t know, continually defending the inexcusable, then “someone like you” would most likely be carried out on a stretcher after re-education.
The internet is a nice safe place for people to be despicably wrong and have no shame or give a second thought about it. The real world is not so tolerant.
As a social science experiment, why not try your argument in the real world, around real people, and see how it flies, let us know how you get on.
So so true. It’s obvious to everyone but David doesn’t get it one bit.
David I can fully understand your sheer horror at the picture that was written about you in a gaol cell being raped by frank and another assailant. A dreadful and disturbing word picture that should not have been allowed.
But maybe you could finally grasp the horror that the victims went through – if you consider that they were little children (with underdeveloped nervous systems)- not adults like you -and also they were REALLY being raped, unlike you- and they were in the gaol of secrecy to be raped over and over and over again.
If you can extrapolate your experience to that of the victims, maybe you would develop more compassion for them?
Once again Debra, you assume I have no awareness of these issues. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Real Compassion is followed by action. Words are cheap.
“Nothing could be further from the truth.”
Right. ike you believe ‘the time has passed’ for justice to be served or compensation to be paid. You don’t care about ‘truth’, the only ‘truth’ you care about is that brian goes scott-free for shielding frank.
“Once again Debra, you assume I have no awareness of these issues.”
Kind of like you assume ‘there are no other victims?’ Whew! How lucky everybody is! Now there’s compassion for you. David you are so full of yourself it’s really pathetic. Typical cult member. Stop with this “once again debra” crap while you play like a broken record post after post David.
David the only one you have compassion for is Brian Houston. He’s such a victim, isn’t he? How sorry everyone should feel for Brian Houston. Yelling at victims at the RC. He must be under so much duress! What a great compassionate guy Brian is, just like you.
What I’m wondering is how “David” can live with himself after insisting on defending these monsters.
“I can’t believe the double standards…”
truth be told david if anyone has double standards repeatedly it’s you….
furthermore david *many* of your posts are an insult to our intelligence….
Churchwatcher
there is no stopping these guys
Announcing the Hillsong Channel | HILLSONG CHURCH
Gospel lnspiration.TV
You are correct, nothing can stop the spread of false doctrine, the doctrine of devils, damnable heresies and the like, the closer we come to Jesus’ return, the more evil will flourish.
The false teachers, false apostles and false prophets will continue to deceive the many that are on the highway to hell and it wont get better, it will get worse.
Hillswrong is just part of the seemingly unstoppable, ear tickling, end time harlot but it will grind to a halt when Jesus returns as it isnt of Him.
Yes, the Matthew 7:23 “Depart from Me, I never knew you” line will be the biggest crowd, and filled with good intentions but absent of knowledge, because those did not take the time to read the Scriptures for themselves.
They will have taken the word of persons like Brian Houston & his massive crowd of financially-success-driven cronies spouting off their unbiblical ear-tickling nonsense instead.
ChurchWatch
I spoke to someone involved with Royal Commission, apparently Brian will not be charged because he did not protect Frank. The only thing he and other’s did wrong was not tell the police, that’s understandable considering the victim was in his 30’s at the time. Brian and a few other’s are likely to get a caution. Case closed.
Thanks for the update David. Case closed? I’m guessing we’ll all sleep so much better knowing that Brian has been “vindicated”.
And AHA will just have to “get over it” because there’s a statute of limitations on child sex abusers and their enablers?
It’s unfortunate for AHA that the evil perpetrator Frank has passed away. I’m also not sure why AHA didn’t tell the police himself (it’s none of my business) but that was all way’s and option.
It wasn’t like Brian was the only one that knew, it’s seem’s there were 30 people or so including Barbara that could of told the police. Critic’s want to single Brian out. In fact Brian told the whole Church any Church member could of told the police.
Perhaps people on this board were aware, if so why were the police not informed ?
It seems there were many people who did not understand the law in relation to this matter. I have no doubt if the victim was 7 at the time people became aware, the police would have been informed.
BTW my contact could be misinformed but I doubt it. We will see.
“it’s seem’s there were 30 people or so including Barbara that could of told the police.”
She didn’t go to the police straight away because she had faith in the AOG leadership to deal with this issue in Godly fashion. Read the findings of the Royal Commission Dave.
“Critic’s want to single Brian out.”
Like the Royal Commission for asking why Brian “touch not God’s anointed” Houston didn’t follow AOG procedures?
Seeing David contacted his friend who is “involved with he RC” (probably empties the waste paper bin if not imaginary) , I contacted mine who works in the NSW AG’s office.
It was explained to me that any criminal charges arising from a RC have to be approved by the AG’s dept after being prepared by the DPP. It is a long and drawn out process.
The word from my learned friend is that “this matter is not over by a long shot”.
So, pay no attention to David’s propaganda, justice will be done.
Thank you Carrot Man,
Another thing worthy of consideration is what other witnesses may have come forward to the police as a result of the Royal Commission. I’m sure there are plenty of people out there who followed it and researched the evidence given that can add to the case proving Brian a liar. He is totally screwed if that has happened.
David rightly says Brian “did wrong” in not reporting his father to the police, that “doing wrong” is a crime and it is not up to the police to “caution” when a serious crime is committed, it is up to a magistrate or judge to determine and punish if appropriate.
Brian gained a benefit by concealing Frank’s crimes, that adds to the criminality of the offence and therefore the severity of the punishment.
Barbara Taylor was required by law to report the crime also but she received no benefit by failing to do so and her actions cannot be considered to be selfishly motivated, unlike Brian’s, she has little or nothing to be worried about except her far side beehive hair cut.
Brian will not escape further investigation in this life and will probably burn in hell in the next.
Poor David, you said:
“It wasn’t like Brian was the only one that knew, it’s seem’s there were 30 people or so including Barbara that could of told the police. Critic’s want to single Brian out. In fact Brian told the whole Church any Church member could of told the police.”
You fail to understand anything about the law.
Brian was the ONLY one who had an ADMISSION OF GUILT from Frank relative to AHA. He was bound by law to report the crime to the police.
Barbara Taylor had the testimony of the victim, she also was required to report.
Everyone else who “knew” only knew by hearsay.
No one is “singling Brian out” – he did that to himself, and no doubt with self serving motive and interest.
“Critic’s want to single Brian out.”
Merely because of the minor details that Brian was the one in charge, the one found to obstruct the investigation, the one found to obstruct justice, the one showing the most contempt for the victims, the only one in a position to decide on paying compensation still today, the one who promised the $10000 would be paid but fell short on his word then, yada yada yada. And on it goes.
All such minor details of course.
So why would anyone want to single out the angelic Brian Houston????
“I spoke to someone involved with Royal Commission, apparently Brian will not be charged because he did not protect Frank.”
That’s interesting considering documents and transcripts appear to record or suggest that Brian Houston did protect Frank.
https://churchwatchcentral.com/2014/12/20/breaking-news-houston-should-be-referred-to-police-for-investigation-royal-commissions-senior-counsel/
In that link it is stated:
“Mr Beckett also found the Assemblies of God offered Frank Houston a chance to return to his ministry, despite the allegations and the fact this was against policy.”
So much for another of David’s statements that “Brian Houston immediately fired his father.”
David doesnt understand the details of what happened with this entire scandal at all.
David
Brian and his cronies are mandatory reporters. Some others that you mentioned are not.
Debra,
You claim that Brian Houston not telling the police hindered the victims claim for compensation and justice. The victim’s or their relatives could of informed the police themselves at any point if they wished.
David,
The Childrens and Young Persons Care and Protection Act 1998 (page 33)
This piece of legislation holds the following groups and individuals legally responsible
for reporting cases of child sexual abuse and other abuses of children (they are termed “mandatory reporters”).
(a) a person who in the course of his or her professional work or other paid employment delivers health care, welfare, education childrens services residential services or law enforcement wholly or partly to children
(b) a person who holds a management position in an organisation the duties of which include direct responsibility for, or direct supervision of, the provisioning of Health care, welfare, education, childrens’ services, residential services, wholly or partly to children,
“(A) if a person to whom this section applies has reasonable grounds to suspect that a child is at risk of harm and
(B) those grounds arise during the course of or from the persons work
That person must, as soon as practicable, report to the Director General the name, or a description of the child and the grounds for suspecting that the child is at risk of harm. (Please see Childrens’ and Young Persons Care an Protection Act 1998 for further detail).
“The victim’s or their relatives could of informed the police themselves at any point if they wished.”
How? Who are the relatives to question the divine man of God, Frank Houston, and his very righteous son, Brian Houston?
Read the RC transcripts Dave.
“The victim’s or their relatives could of informed the police themselves at any point if they wished.”
David, it is not up to YOU to decide what the victims SHOULD have done or not done. THEY are the victims, not you, not Brian Houston. They do not need YOUR advice. STOP speaking for the victims (whom you have NEVER EVEN MET ONE of them).
Their actions or lack of actions do NOT release Brian Houston and his cronies from all responsibility for what Brian Houston has downgraded and summed up as a so-called ‘lack of judgment.’
Now in your ARROGANCE you even DARE to PASS JUDGEMENT on how the victims reacted.
>>>>>THEY might have felt INTIMIDATED at that time and even still now.>>>>>>
It is not up to YOU to PASS JUDGEMENT on how the victims behaved. THEY are the victims. They DID NOT ASK to be victims.
STOP defending the indefensible actions of these non-christians who are such terrible actors only you cannot tell the difference between them and real Christians.
Well we seem to be running around in circles. ChurchWatch and associated critics claim Brian protected a pedo. This is misleading because Brian did many things to bring his father’s sick secret out into the to light including firing him, informing the board and the Church etc etc..
Protecting a pedo would mean hiding his father’s secret, not informing anyone else, moving him to lead in another church and protecting his reputation.. The Catholic Church has been doing this for years which is true pedpo protection. It’s hardly fair to cast Brian in the same light.
The one thing he didn’t do was not inform the police which he admits was a mistake in hindsight and it seems many other’s made the same mistake.
BTW Joey Ronald I was hardly passing judgement as you claim I was simply making a point.
On another point, If I told ChurchWatch Brian Smith was a pastor at Burwood Baptist Church you natural assumption would be that Brian Smith is:
A. A paid pastor at Burwood Baptist Church
B. Under the leadership of the Church elders
D. Preaches frequently at Church services
E. Is a spokesman for the Church
This is why your title” Pat Maseti Hillsong pastor” etc etc is misleading. People naturally assume the four points raised above are reflective of Hillsong’s association with Pat. I don’t understand why you don’t see my point. Thinker surely you agree with me here you seem reasonable.
Cheers,
‘Brian Houston is known for deceiving and abusing the trust so readily given to him by faithful people”.
After finding out about Frank, Brian reports that he went straight to his own children to inform them that Frank was a paedophile, and question them to see if Frank molested them.
He DID NOT go to the families and children who had been exposed to Frank, to ask them if they had been molested, nor did he warn those church families that Frank was a paedophile. In fact he and the National Executive counselled AOG church leaders NOT to inform their congregations.
In a letter of the 24/12/2001 to AOG ministers from the National Executive it was stated: ” We cannot see any reason for this (Frank’s “serious moral failure”) to be announced to your church or further afield.”
HELLO ??!!! “CANNOT SEE ANY REASON?!” What about the possibility that some of those children within these churches may have been abused by Frank ?? AND What about protecting those children by informing parents that a paedophile was in their midst?
Brian informed and questioned his own children, so what about his legal and moral responsibility to the children of his followers? I guess they weren’t as important as his own children.
I don’t think any of us will ever understand how hard it what for Brian.
i agree that its a clash of cultures. In the same way that a senior Catholic official 50 years ago didn’t want to go to police and make things public, most people would struggle about going to the police about their father. Especially when for decades you have been brought up to know about people in your congregation and people you have counselled who have done wrong.
Yes, I think Brian did the wrong thing. Yes, I think that now if i were in his position I would be wanting to reach out to the victims.
But, honestly, those of you who love your fathers – imagine if tomorrow someone came to you and said your father molested them 30 years ago.
What would you do? Seriously. What would you do? If it was your mother? What would you do?
“I don’t think any of us will ever understand how hard it what for Brian.”
I don’t think any defender of Brian Houston will ever want to understand how or why Brian Houston personally got involved in the first place.
It would not have been so hard on Brian if he chose not to get involved.
“What would you do? Seriously.”
Follow the AOG rule book, follow the rules of the land and follow the bible. All these rules are ther to help people.
Brian failed as the AOG president:
He did not follow AOG rules.
Brian failed as a pastor.
He did not follow biblical procedures.
Brian failed as a husband.
He has not been up front his wife about his dealings with Frank and his victims.
Brian failed as a son.
He does not know if his father is in heaven or hell.
So it bothers us greatly for Brian Houston to publish ‘Live Love Lead’ when he demonstrates absolute lack of intellect, empathy and spine in his handling problems on this scale.
What is absolutely psychophantic about Brian Houston’s involvement in all this is how he has used the victims and the crimes of his father to promote himself. It is still all about Brian.
Its naive to think that the entire Houston clan didnt know about Frank raping children. He lost his church in NZ and the top job in the NZ AOG for child sex offences.
The Royal Commission showed that at least 50 pastors in NZ knew of Franks evil life style.
How can a minister lose his church and the top job in his denomination and leave to another country and no one in his family knows? Really?
The mother in law of Frank’s daughter takes over Franks Lower Hutt church where he sexually assaulted 6 boys and no one in the family knows anything? Youre kidding me?
Frank’s paeodphilia was something that was covered up and hidden by the Houstons at the expense of the victims for 30 plus years and they thought they had gotten away with it.
He continued in his predatory and perverted lifestyle here as well. It is well documented. Why would they be surprised?
The whole thing is a sick evil joke.
How did Brian feel? He had known this day was coming for a very long time, he just went into damage control.
Damage control for the Houston family simply meant more damage to the victims and more damage to the reputation of the church.
It is a sad and sorry tale of end times wolves devouring sheep. That’s all.
Gorilla Brown
I here what you are saying although I think you need to be careful about making factual claim’s that don’t have a factual basis.
“Its naive to think that the entire Houston clan didnt know about Frank raping children. He lost his church in NZ and the top job in the NZ AOG for child sex offences”
This statement above is pure conjecture there is absolutely no basis for this claim. We know Frank left the The New Zealand AOG to move to Australia. That is ALL we know the rest of your statement has no basis in facts.
“The Royal Commission showed that at least 50 pastors in NZ knew of Franks evil life style”
This is not true. 50 pastor’s had heard rumors but only in the present day. This was not the case when Frank left the AOG back in the day.
“How can a minister lose his church and the top job in his denomination and leave to another country and no one in his family knows? Really”
He didn’t lose his church he resigned to start CLC Waterloo in Australia. Two very different things. And yes it’s very easy to believe no one knew about the abuse because pedo’s like to keep secrets especially pastor pedo’s.
The Royal Commission has NEVER made the claim that Brian was aware of the abuse prior to Frank moving to Australia, IMO you are making the situation worse by your conjecture and the spreading of false rumors.
“This statement above is pure conjecture there is absolutely no basis for this claim. We know Frank left the The New Zealand AOG to move to Australia. That is ALL we know the rest of your statement has no basis in facts.”
Two words David: Barney Coombes.
“This is not true. 50 pastor’s had heard rumors but only in the present day.”
David – we are sounding like a broken record to you: check out the transcripts from the Royal Commission.
“The Royal Commission has NEVER made the claim that Brian was aware of the abuse prior to Frank moving to Australia”
Read the transcripts on Brian Houston from the Royal Commission. The Royal Commission never made the claim that Brian was aware but Brian suggested he did in front of the Royal Commission.
If it were ever put to a jury to decide if Brian and the Houston family knew of Frank Houston’s criminal and perverted sexual history extending back to the Lower Hutt incidents, it would be reasonable to expect them to conclude that they were all aware of his evil actions.
Even if Mr Brown cannot substantiate his opinion, many would agree that is is highly likely that the entire Houston empire has been deliberately built on lies,deception, cover ups, criminal behaviour and straight up anti-christ conduct. Brian Houston, in his arrogance, has done nothing but galvanise himself to his father’s wickedness and the vast majority of people would see it as so.
David might want to exonerate Brian of all wrong doing but he would be part of a very small minority.
“David might want to exonerate Brian of all wrong doing but he would be part of a very small minority.”
David is the latest self-elected Hillsong Cult spokesperson.
Christine,
I don’t think any of us will ever understand how difficult it was for the victims.
Christine I would like you to run through a similar scenario with the same detail for the victims, that you composed about Brian. How was it as a little child being raped over and over again? What would happen to your self esteem your sense of safety? Thoughts of, and attempts of suicide. To name just a few of the horrors. How would you as a helpless little child handlle that? Would you be able to cope with severelife long mental health problems as a result of the rapes?
There are plenty of research articles that would give you information so you could thoroughly walk a mile in their shoes.
“But, honestly, those of you who love your fathers – imagine if tomorrow someone came to you and said your father molested them 30 years ago.
What would you do? Seriously. What would you do? If it was your mother? What would you do?”
Christine, I have been in a similar position and I did the only thing a person could do. I stood aside because of conflict of interest and resigned my position until the matter was concluded.
That is what any honest person would do, BUT you can’t have your cake and eat it too. In stepping aside, you allow the outcome to be controlled by others, absolutely.
Brian was never going to allow the Frank situation to be controlled by anyone but him.
He should have been removed by the others and the AOG procedures followed exactly. There would have been independent legal council that would have seen Frank delivered up to the authorities.
There would have been scandal and compensation due, but as already said, Brian was never going to allow that to happen and now its come back to bite him.
“What would you do? Seriously. What would you do? If it was your mother? What would you do?”
Fairly compensate the victims.
Gorilla Brown, I agreed with just about everything you said except for this question:
“How can a minister lose his church and the top job in his denomination and leave to another country and no one in his family knows? Really?”
Hope this helps you understand how the unthinkable is still possible. In my 20s I attended a Christian women’s group for sexual abuse survivors (I had a particularly destructive relationship in my teens). Therefore I don’t have the difficulty in believing that family members may genuinely not know like many other people have.
Several women said that no-one in their family had any idea until they were adults and chose to speak about it. They hid that they were being sexually abused because they knew they would not be believed.They feared the emotional/ physical violence that might come if they spoke out. One woman told her mother about what was happening to her and she was slapped across the face.
One woman spoke of how she didn’t remember any abuse until her late 30s. That wasn’t from hypnosis either (potentially false memory syndrome). She suddenly started having terrifying nightmares at night and then flashback memories started coming out of nowhere.
Other women spoke of their father/uncle/grandfather being in high positions in the church e.g. deacon. Their relative was “hiding in plain sight’. Who would believe a teenager’s words about such an outwardly moral man, a man heavily involved in their local church ministries? It was “easier” for them to act like their family was perfect, suffer in silence and try to hold themselves together, using whatever strategy they could in the circumstances.
Gorilla Brown, you asked this question:
“How can a minister lose his church and the top job in his denomination and leave to another country and no one in his family knows? Really?”
Hope this helps you understand how the unthinkable is still possible. In my 20s I attended a Christian women’s group for sexual abuse survivors (I had a particularly destructive relationship in my teens). Therefore I don’t have the difficulty in believing that family members may genuinely not know like many other people have.
Several women said that no-one in their family had any idea until they were adults and chose to speak about it. They hid that they were being sexually abused because they knew they would not be believed.They feared the emotional/ physical violence that might come if they spoke out. One woman told her mother about what was happening to her and she was slapped across the face.
One woman spoke of how she didn’t remember any abuse until her late 30s. That wasn’t from hypnosis either (potentially false memory syndrome). She suddenly started having terrifying nightmares at night and then flashback memories started coming out of nowhere.
Other women spoke of their father/uncle/grandfather being in high positions in the church e.g. deacon. Their relative was “hiding in plain sight’. Who would believe a teenager’s words about such an outwardly moral man, a man heavily involved in their local church ministries? It was “easier” for them to act like their family was perfect, suffer in silence and try to hold themselves together, using whatever strategy they could in the circumstances.
“Christine, I have been in a similar position and I did the only thing a person could do. I stood aside because of conflict of interest and resigned my position until the matter was concluded.”
@D. Niven
I think then you are an amazing person of integrity. If you did that and it was a parent who you loved, then it would have been the hardest thing I can imagine.
@Debra
I understand that. I was asking a genuine question. Because I don’t know what I’d do in the same situation. Especially with a parent who only had a few years to live.
And I’m suggesting that MOST people who be in a complete crisis about knowing what to do. That’s all. And I think the people on this website are more interested in Brian being punished for this than anyone else – including the victims.
@Hillsong is a cult I think they should too.
“And I think the people on this website are more interested in Brian being punished for this than anyone else – including the victims.”
I don’t know that I would go that far. At least one of the victims spoke at the Royal Commission, I seriously doubt that any of the people on this website did.
Regardless, the truth of the matter is, the people on this website are likely tired of slippery Brian Houston getting away with many things for many years, and they probably see the sex scandal as an opportunity to finally hold him accountable for something wrong of the many wrong things he has done. Opportunities to hold him accountable to anything have likely been rare.
Not to mention the people on this website have every right to be incensed at Brian Houston and compassionate towards the victims. Pls do not deny them this because if the regulars on this kind of website did not have higher standards than the average person they would probably not be so inclined to post.
I was also asking a serious – very serious question! I asked you a series of questions but you didn’t see fit to answer those VERY important questions. I don’t think you care anything about those poor raped children. But God cares about them and it is He that will punish them and give them justice!
‘Them’ meaning the paedophiles and those who protect them from the police.