Just because a problem is widespread doesn’t mean it should be ignored. Hillsong has a serious problem with its culture of celebrity and bullying. Then there’s also the many problems with their doctrine and false gospel. They position themselves as a leader of the church in Australia so they need to be held to account. The Bible certainly doesn’t say to ignore these issues. There are many examples in the Bible where churches were publicly rebuked for going astray and Jesus tells us clearly how to handle false teachers. This website is a fantastic resource for helping people who may be experiencing similar issues. I wish this website existed when I was at Hillsong. I would have realised much sooner how evil Hillsong really is.
Source: By Rock Strongo, A Hillsong victim’s experience…, Hillsong Church Watch, https://hillsongchurchwatch.com/2014/09/09/a-hillsong-victims-experience/#comment-8401, 11/09/2014 at 3:14 am. (Accessed 11/09/2014.)
[Watch this space]
Email us with your comments and questions to: c3churchwatch@hotmail.com
Hillsong Church Watch 
I appreciate your concern for the church but all of your criticisms make me wonder, are you not sinning by judging Pastor Brian Houston or any other pastors? Don’t you think it would be more beneficial to attempt to partner with these people and challenge them in a healthy way rather than just tearing them down?
In no way am I trying to attack you or your opinions but if you are truly as passionate about these issues as you seem to be, judging by this website, then why don’t you consider taking a more loving and sympathetic approach instead or just spreading negativity – I’m just not sure it’s really helping anyone.
Again, my apologies if this is coming off aggressively, I’m just interested in what your motives are behind this website and your posts and what you hope to achieve with it all?
Thanks
Lewis
“make me wonder, are you not sinning by judging Pastor Brian Houston or any other pastors?”
No. Jesus permits his believers to judge correctly. We have demonstrated explicitly that Brian Houston preaches a false Jesus, a false Gospel and encourages people to embrace a false spirit. It is the Apostle Paul that has pronounced eternal damnation on Brian Houston for preaching another gospel – not us. If you have a problem with God doing that, pray about it. Many of the pastors Brian endorses the Aposte Paul condemns.
“Don’t you think it would be more beneficial to attempt to partner with these people and challenge them in a healthy way rather than just tearing them down?”
No. Jesus told us to have nothing to do with those who reject his correction approach laid down in Matt 18. If Brian Houston is prepared to demonise and slander those who corrects them – then we are exactly what Jesus is telling believers to do: warn and treat these men as pagans; have nothing to do with them.
You might want to do your homework on Brian Houston’s gospel and teachings. You would not want your family around him.
What do we hope to achieve?
1. People to be safe from cult leaders like Brian Houston
2. Our government to protect it’s citizens by monitoring the Hillsong cult
3. Most importantly – repentance.
Do people who attend Hillsong go to heaven?
Nik – those who go to heaven are sinners chosen in Him before the foundation of the earth (Ephesians 1:4). Those who have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:12; Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9). Those who have recognized their need for a Savior and humbly accepted God’s offer of forgiveness. Those who have repented of their old ways of living and set their course to follow Christ (Mark 8:34; John 15:14). Those who have not attempted to earn God’s forgiveness but have served him gladly from grateful hearts (Psalm 100:2). The kind of faith that saves a soul is one that transforms a life (James 2:26; 1 John 3:9-10) and rests fully on the grace of God.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
You might want to get in The word of God and break down the walls of a religious spirit that you have out up. almost everything that you are speaking of about Pastor Bobbie and Brian giving and teaching “False” Gospel is the complete opposite of what they are doing. What they are doing is leading a dying hurting and broken world to The very Feet of Jesus. Thousands upon thousands of people Are giving their Lives to God! Because of what God is doing through hillsong!! I have truly experienced just how the presence of God flows through that church as I have been going and serving in church for all of my life and going and serving at hillsong for 4 years, it will forever be home to me! What your saying is so very very off. these religious walls that you are putting up are soooo very dangerous, I soo know that Jesus wants to speak to your heart, and to know that God is so heavily moving in Hillsong church. And pastor Brian and Bobbie Houston’s hearts for people and truly bringing people right to Jesus, serving with everything that they are being true examples of Jesus hands and feet. And it is so very simple Reaching and impacting the world. I Just truly am Praying that his Love and everlasting. Please don’t ever say that Hillsong is brain washing come tell overlooking what God is doing, almost identical to what the pharasies did to Jesus. Please truly sit down in a hillsong service of you can and actually listen with your heart open to hear the word of God I doubt any of these people have actually been apart of hillsong church…and get over that religious spirt because it will kill you! And cause you to comepletely blow off a true act of God. Because that’s what your doing. You are teaching false teaching not them! They are teaching directly from the word of God!!
“almost everything that you are speaking of about Pastor Bobbie and Brian giving and teaching “False” Gospel is the complete opposite of what they are doing.”
Proof please.
“What they are doing is leading a dying hurting and broken world to The very Feet of Jesus.”
Proof please. We’ve proven again and again, that Brian Houston is a liar and a fraud, preaching a false Jesus, a false gospel and encouraging people to embrace every other spirit except the HOLY Spirit. In fact, we have enough evidence to put forward that Hillsong operates from a pagan spirit. If you want to prove us wrong, give us ONE sermon where Brian Houston preaches the gospel and doesn’t pervert the scriptures in doing so. Prove to us he can present Jesus Christ without elevating his own philosophies and ideologies about God’s Word.
Wow, religious people are scary. I totally stumbled onto this website whilst looking for interesting articles about Saul’s conversion. My mouth was agape at the degree of hatred I’ve read. Yes, there will always be human error and sin in the way of preachers (they’re people too), but the gospel has always been Christ crucified and raised to life. God will call us to give account someday. You, me and Brian will give our own accounts. You really are stressing yourself out. I am not a hillsong member, but I have heard him preach. Some of it is a little prosperity sounding but goodness gracious, give people some credit. God gives us discernment too you know! People give their lives to Jesus, not Brian. Yes we can warn people of dangers but slander is a big deal, even if they are “truth”…William Blake said “a truth told with bad intent beats all the lies you can invent”. Just cause you speak “truth” doesn’t mean your manner or intent are pure. You will probably say it is but he hate you write says otherwise. You seem a person/people hurt and lashing out. People will always fail us, heck churches often fail us, but as with ANY preacher/church leader, you take what they say, and check it for yourself. A lot of their music points to Jesus and I have seen time and time again how people all over the world have accepted Jesus through that too. Assuming every person to walk into a hillsong church is a victim is a hard stretch…If people want to throw money their way, that is their business. My heart hurts every time I walk past a Jehovah’s witness “church” but standing with a sign that says ‘you’re all in a cult’ etc is not loving, it’s damaging. If you want to help people “escape the cult of hillsong”, warn people by pointing to Jesus, not slandering someone else. Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m certain the prophets warned the people to turn away from false gods, not shaming or trying to belittle the false prophets but by revealing God’s truth and often God following it with a demonstration of His power…Even the whole prophets of baal vs God bringing fire from heaven was about God, not about the false prophets. Anyway, I know this won’t dissuade you, but I’m hoping some other person reading your blog might see thing and rethink how they go about “helping people”. One body people, one body, Christ is the only head. Don’t look at Brian Houston or any other person so intensely that you lose sight of even yourself.
“People give their lives to Jesus, not Brian.”
Many of these persons have given their lives to Brian, not Jesus. They follow Brian’s command, no matter what it is. They justify what he does, no matter what it is. They believe whatever he says, no matter what that it. Brian can ‘do no evil.’
“Correct me if I’m wrong”
You’re wrong.
“I totally stumbled onto this website
Probably not. It’s more likely that God has shown you mercy, and He is trying to tell you something….
“My mouth was agape at the degree of hatred I’ve read.”
What your mouth should have been agape at was Brian Houston the first time you ever heard him open his mouth. This is an indicator of your own spiritual condition… totally naive.
“Yes, there will always be human error and sin in the way of preachers”
No, Jesus warned us to watch out for False Prophets. Although you say they’re no big deal, I think I’ll stick with Jesus’ great advice, and alas ignore your awful advice.
“(they’re people too)”
So were Joseph Smith and Jim Jones..
“but the gospel has always been Christ crucified and raised to life.”
Which is not what Brian preaches. Why are you defending him? Your reason is….?
“Wow, religious people are scary.”
What’s more scary is preachers in the pulpit who do not preach from, nor believe in, nor respect the Word of God, e.g. Brian Houston. Even scarier, when ‘Christians’ like you believe him.
*A Christian preacher Houston is not. In the pulpit Houston has no business being.*
PS: I might add, your level of ignorance is utterly astounding. You should be ashamed for posting your LAZY UNRESEARCHED NONSENSE.
Thanks Chapstiche and doggie, I love you too x
” I am not a hillsong member, but I have heard him preach.”
Brian Houston doesn’t preach, he peddles self-serving nonsense to wilfully ignorant dupes like you.
“standing with a sign that says ‘you’re all in a cult’ etc is not loving, it’s damaging.”
Actually, its the plain truth. hillsong is a cult.
“God gives us discernment too you know!”
I can’t see evidence that he has given you any discernment whatsoever.
“Actually, its the plain truth. hillsong is a cult.”
Actually “The Plain Truth” is a cult too.
Them be the official publication of Herbert W. Armstrong’s cult.
Gotta watch whatcha say when you’re around a bunch of discerners. 🙂
Matthew 7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you…”
John 7:24 “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
I have been a born again Christian for more than 10yrs. It seem you have some obstacles of cursing in your way and believe praying is the key to destroying it before it becomes worse? I understand you completely on judging with righteous judgement, however, I believe you may have misinterpreted the given scriptures, and here is why?
1. The Bible is not only about GOD but also for wisdom and TRUTH. We can use the gifts of the Holy of Spirit to judge the world accordingly.
2. Only discerning of the spirit can you receive precise accuracy otherwise you may mislead others along with your opinions? Are there any other issues beside labeling Hillsong a cult? That is very bold statement to make? How can a Mega Church as Hillsong be built from the ground unless GOD’s hands at work here? If its man’s work it can not last but only if GOD is the one behind it? I look at Hillsong ministry and they are still going strong for more than 10yrs. Perhaps any Church can lose its way on the journey but have Faith that GOD is still in the midst without casting the first stone? Otherwise, you can easily become like-minded of the pharisees?
3. I strongly believe salvation is a free gift from GOD and saved through grace not by works, and does not condemn us.
4. Many false prophets have already been passed e.g. Mohammad, Joseph Smith? How can you make that kind of judgement “Brian preaches false Jesus”?
5. Don’t you think GOD knows who is in His Family? The bible is very clear:
John 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
6. Does it give you the right to condemn the whole Hillsong church? Do you think Bible teaches us uplifting? Ephesians 4:29 “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.”.
Isn’t that the reason why we Christians pray and not curse?
I also believe humility is the key for all of us. I do know pride can drive us into a corner of being right all the time without the advice of your brethren or a second or third opinion?
I hope this find you in brotherly Love in Jesus name!
Whoa…..what a bunch of “haters”………sounds like the ‘devil talking’ here…..any nice people amongst you lot? Start preaching the ‘love’ of God through his son Jesus Christ and people might start taking you seriously.
“Start preaching the ‘love’ of God through his son Jesus Christ and people might start taking you seriously.”
Hello there Johnny-come-lately. You’re too late. People are already taking this site seriously. Some have left Hillsong after finding out the truth about it here and on other similar sites, mate.
Lewis you would be aware of the Bereans in the book of Acts who studied what people were saying to ” to see if these things were so. ”
Jesus and Paul warned us of not only of wolves in sheep’s clothing IN the church but also Jesus made a distinction about Shepherds and Hirelings.
Shepherds would care for the flock without self gain but the Hireling was more concerned with their own agenda and self interest.
Wolves do not spare the flock, they inwardly are ferocious.
True Pastors would be like a David loving , protecting and providing for the sheep.
Lewis, a question for you.
Who are the wolves and Hirelings the bible warns us about ?
Could you name some ?
The bible talks of a variety of types of believers.
Some would be like a Judas who hung around Jesus,
Some are deceived,
Some are hot or cold,
Some are carnal,
Some teach heresy,
Some exploit widows,
Some are immoral, involved in sexual misconduct,
Some cause division, teaching false doctrine ,
Some are Born Again, some never were,
Some are anti christ etc etc
The big picture Lewis is, an anti christ is predicted to come onto the world stage and he will be joined by a false prophet.
They will be followed by the masses who have believed a lie and not studied the truth of scripture.
2 Thess Chapter 2 announces that God will allow these a strong delusion to believe that lie.
There will be false miracles but really Satan is in the midst .
You will recall the showdown with the magicians and Moses before the Pharaoh in Egypt.
Almost on every page of the bible Jesus and Paul are bringing correction of some sort in relation to doctrine and conduct of people.
Jesus actually uses provocation to get discussion going and does not hold back in calling them out with names , like snakes and white washed tombs.
Paul names people and urges us with tears to be on the lookout to expose and avoid those who cause division contrary to the doctrine you were taught.
A life in Christ is multi faceted in knowing Christ and making Him known but also involves us upholding and defending the faith and the living word.
Jesus I am the way ,the truth and the life !
Hope this helps !
“The spiritual man judges all things but he himself is not subject to anymans judgement.” 1 Cornithians 2:15
This sounds a little bit like the Pharisee’s and the Sadducee’s in the bible, what I know is that Jesus said in Matthew 7:16 that by their fruit you will know them. I do not attend any church and have been away from God for 30 years recently I listened to the new Hillsong album and God has spoken to me through the worship in such a way that I cannot even describe, just his wonder and grace I would have given all I have in this life to have this encounter again with him. I am so grateful for the Holy Spirit raising up such anointed musicians and through that he has resurrected me from sin. I am that fruit and I thank the Lord with all my heart for this ministry and I do believe that we need to be ready for God to take us out and away from what we are comfortable with. God Bless you all.
“I am that fruit and I thank the Lord with all my heart for this ministry and I do believe that we need to be ready for God to take us out and away from what we are comfortable with. ”
We can tell you are the fruit of Hillsong. Jesus disciples worship in Spirit and Truth. You don’t.
Tell us – what is the gospel?
“I do not attend any church and have been away from God for 30 years recently I listened to the new Hillsong album and God has spoken to me through the worship in such a way that I cannot even describe,
I am so grateful for the Holy Spirit raising up such anointed musicians and through that he has resurrected me from sin.”
God has spoken through the mouth of a donkey before, maybe this was a repeat.
No. That Donkey actually saved someone’s life from the wrath of God. Even a donkey has more discernment than Hillsong leaders.
“No. That Donkey actually saved someone’s life from the wrath of God. Even a donkey has more discernment than Hillsong leaders.”
I was being sarcastic.
Don’t you guys have anything better to do?
2 Tim 3:16
Are u suggesting we should not obey Jesus in watching out for wolves in sheep’s clothing and imitating Paul who warned us with tears that the church would be infiltrated by people with ungodly motives and false teaching.
I care about whats happening to the church.
Perhaps you believe in another Jesus ?
Like to know what u believe in ?
@seags – Well yes, we do have ‘better things to do’ but because of the Hillsong cult and its very deceptive image and practice, those ‘better things” have had to be put aside for now, so we can spend time warning people both here and overseas, about this dangerous, deceptive man made movement, called Hillsong…
When a bridge is out, over a river crossing, the local council sends a man with a warning sign. If motorists take heed, then they can safely cross over the river at the next bridge further down.
If they ignore the warning and just drive right on past the Stop sign man (or simply roll over the top of him as our favourite trolls tend to do,) then they will “end up in the drink” and be swept away in the flood of end time deception…
That’s why we are here ‘seags’ – to provide that warning/detour sign, so that innocent people won’t be swept away by their own foolish resistance to learning and understanding just what Hillsong and other “false profit’ organisations are doing to them and their families…
I’m so pleased that these guys “have nothing better to do”, than to speak the truth, uphold Godliness, deplore evil, warn about the corruption and deception of Hillsong and the Houstons.
I agree, I Thank God for the warning through those that have nothing better to do.
I am sad that Christians are pulling down not building up/ Quoting scripture. At the expense of quoting verse = love always protects. I find grace towards me every day – I so hope I extend it to to others. I also am a Pastor and know how much we intend to love, and lead with integrity and grace. I stand up for those you pull down. Claiming that Hillsong is a wolf in sheep’s clothing…. how do you come to that? There is so much fruit – and fruit that remains…. good fruit. I love my brothers and sisters in Hillsong and this is the way the world will know …. by our love – not our criticisms.
Your comment proves why women are not biblically qualified to be pastors.
https://carm.org/should-women-be-pastors-and-elders
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“At the expense of quoting verse = love always protects.”
Love does protect. We are protecting Christians from the Hillsong cult by warning them and hoping that Christians leave this deceitful and abusive movement.
“I also am a Pastor and know how much we intend to love, and lead with integrity and grace.”
Really? Does anyone know of any male pastors by the name of Sarah? If Sarah is a woman, she is not loving God at all by insisting that she be called a pastor – an office God has only given men in his church. In fact, Sarah, you are loving self above loving God: apostasy incarnate.
You can’t experience grace when you flat out oppose Christ and His Word the way you do. You are in sin and need to repent.
“Claiming that Hillsong is a wolf in sheep’s clothing…”
We have never claimed that Hillsong is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. We have claimed Brian Houston is a wolf. But you will never see this to be true because you Sarah, reject the scripture because YOU like the idea of being a pastor.
“I love my brothers and sisters in Hillsong”
No you don’t. You have no love because the truth is not in you because you reject God’s Word on men being pastors (not women).
If you loved Hillsong members – you would love his Word and pull out Christians who are being deceived by liars for the glory of God. But you don’t.
You’d rather they rot and burn in hell because you have no truth in you to discern the difference between right and wrong.
“the world will know …. by our love – not our criticisms.”
Well the world knows Hillsong for covering up the crimes of a serial pedophile and to this day still defend a serial pedophile.
That’s not called good fruit. That’s called rotten fruit and the world blasphemes God because of the immoral and deceitful conduct of Hillsong’s leaders and its brainwashed members.
If defending a pedophile is your definition of ‘love’, God help you. We can’t even evangelise to this day because Hillsong has bought such a horrific witness against the gospel of Jesus Christ.
We are united in the truth of the gospel and we are sanctified and united in the truth. And yes – truth hurts. However, Hillsong may present a feel-good love – but that “love” will hurt many people eternally when people discover it’s only skin deep.
“I love my brothers and sisters in Hillsong and this is the way the world will know …. by our love – not our criticisms.”
== You only love those in HS. You wouldn’t give two cents for those hurt by HS.
“I also am a Pastor and know how much we intend to love, and lead with integrity and grace.”
== Lots of talking smack by HS supporters….. Integrity? What integrity?
“But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man”
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?”
So you love those in HS, but are defiant towards 1 Tim chapter 2?
Sorry but there will be no rewards given for “most deceived”…..
“I am sad that Christians are pulling down not building up/ Quoting scripture….”
Why won’t you follow this command?
1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
“At the expense of quoting verse = love always protects.”
Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love. 6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
I find grace towards me every day – I so hope I extend it to to others.
James 4:6… God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
“I love my brothers and sisters in Hillsong and this is the way the world will know …. by our love – not our criticisms.”
Read psalm 119.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm+119&version=KJV
* Are you seeking/ does Hillsong seek to follow God’s commandments as the psalmist does?
* F3 the word “love” – does the psalmist use the word as the world/ Hillsong uses it?
*Do you delight/ is Hillsong delighting in what the psalmist does (i.e. God’s law)?
“I also am a Pastor.”
Actually, if you had read your Bible, you would know that pastors and women are mutually exclusive subsets.
“Claiming that Hillsong is a wolf in sheep’s clothing…. how do you come to that?”
Could you remind us please: who was it who was first deceived in the garden of Eden?
Perhaps a quick study of these articles will help her understand the biblical role of women? Then she can take the argument up with the Lord rather than us.
https://carm.org/women-in-ministry
1 Timothy 2:13-14 “For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.”
Could you please enlighten me you said, “I am a pastor,” I’ve always wondered how people lay claim to that title.
Have you a degree from Moore Theological College? Or even Tabor? How did it happen you becoming a “Pastor” ? And why your need for that title? Is it a
personal thing, a search for an
identity? Or did God annoint you for the Ministry? And if He did again did someone confirm this to you? And if so whom?
Most Pastors Ive meet are usually denominational company men they go along to get along.
I would never lay claim to that title lightly.
Cheers Johnny
Subject: Re: TEST YOUR FAITH IF YOU PEOPLE ARE WITH GOD OR SATAN
RELIGIOUS ROCK…
The Satanic Music of Devils You People Bring Into Your CHURCHES!!!
Religious rock and roll is like the frog and the water. The term “rock and roll” means fornication. It is a street name for sexual immorality. It has wrecked the lives of many teenagers through suicide, drug abuse, immorality, perversion, satanism, etc. Sadly, many of you Fake Christians and church leaders are allowing this demonic music into your churches, claiming that the music is holy and sanctified because the lyrics are changed to include some ‘religious’ words. Where is the discernment in the church? Are Christians losing their ability to discern the difference between good and evil? The fact that this demonic music even made it into the church is proof of the moral and spiritual decline affecting the church today. You Deceitful people are being invaded by hard rock, acid rock, punk rock, new wave, and heavy metal music under the guise of religious rock and roll.
God says in His Word:
“O that there were such a heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!” (Deut 5:29).
“Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light” (Eph 5:6-8).
“But exhort one another daily, while it is called Today; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin” (Heb 3:13).
Satan was created a beautiful musical creature: “…every precious stone was thy covering,…the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created” (Ezek 28:13). Since music was built into his very nature are we foolish enough to assume that he will not use it to deceive and enslave?
You people are told by the religious rockers that you must look and sound like the world in order to reach the youth of this generation. They say, many young people will not listen to the gospel or come to church so you people must meet them on some common ground. That common ground is rock and roll. In other words, they are saying that preaching of the Word of God is no longer sufficient for both young and old. If this is true, then you should open bars in order to reach the multitudes of drinkers. You should open porno-shops in order to reach those who engage in smut. Shouldn’t you go to their level so you can bring them to the Lord Jesus Christ? So what if you do evil if the end result is good? What’s a little compromise with God’s standards of holiness and separation if it results in souls being saved?… This type of reasoning is one of the doctrines of demons that Christians are accepting. Does it not make sense that the same Bible that has worked sucessfully to this time, will continue to work for both the young and the old? How many Christians love God’s people enough to say, “no more! Throw this satanic filth out of the church and back into hell where it belongs”? Do you realize that just 10 years ago this evil music would not have even remotely been considered as a suitable method to sing and praise God. That type of music would have been immediately thrown out of the churches. What you are witnessing today is the spiritual and moral degeneration that is affecting Christians to the degree that many no longer have any discernment between good and evil.
TEN SCRIPTURAL REASONS
WHY “THE ROCK BEAT” IS EVIL INANY FORM
DEFINITION OF “ROCK BEAT”
The “rock beat” is a dominant and repetitious offbeat which competes with the melody and distracts from the words of a song. The contradictory messages in the beat, the words, the melody, the style of the presentation, and the appearance of the musicians all create a subtle confusion in the minds, wills, and emotions of the listeners, which leads them to question the absolute moral standards of God.
I. THE “ROCK BEAT” DECEIVES YOUTH INTO VIOLATING THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT.
The fifth Commandment is “Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee” (Exodus 20:12).
The New Testament reaffirms this commandment: “Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth”(Ephesians 6:2-3).
There is no question that many parents are strongly opposed to the “rock beat.” Therefore, those who promote the “rock beat” are causing young people to dishonor their fathers and mothers.
HOW THE “ROCK BEAT” CAUSED A SON TO DISHONOR HIS PARENTS
“About four years ago, our church got a new youth pastor. He began playing ‘Christian rock’ before meetings and during activities. He encouraged me to get a copy of a certain tape, which I did, even though my parents forbade me from doing so.
“Because I was being home educated, the church youth group was the only significant outside influence in my life, but that influence was enough to cause me to rebel and wreck my life for the next four years.
“I then started listening to secular soft rock music, thinking, ‘What’s wrong with this? It has less beat than Christian music.’ If only I had known what a deceiver Satan is, I would have saved myself a lot of heartache.
“About seven months ago at a Christian radio station’s New Year’s Eve party, I was introduced to ‘Christian rap’ music. Before that time, I did not listen to rap, but after hearing it there, I began justifying to myself that the beat couldn’t be all bad because Christians listened to it and it didn’t seem to harm them.
“What it did to me was cause a complete breakdown in morals, which led directly to my becoming involved in immoral habits and illegal activities. I was also constantly plagued with violent and unclean thoughts.
“Since then, I have taken steps to regain the ‘ground’ given to Satan, and for the first
time in years, I have a feeling of complete freedom from the influence of this music.”
–Tim Love, age 18, Washington
A SECOND WITNESS ON HOW THE “ROCK BEAT” LEADS YOUTH TO BREAK THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT
“I’ve never been into rock music or even light rock, but lately I believe my standards in music have been going down. Our family was given two music tapes a while back.
“They aren’t extremely ‘rocky,’ but the beat in the music is a little off. I have enjoyed those tapes, and when my mother said she really didn’t like them, I immediately became defensive.
“I realize now that even if those tapes were perfectly fine as far as the beat, if my mother didn’t like them it would be wrong for me to listen to them.”
— Lael Auble, age 24, Florida
A THIRD WITNESS ON HOW THE “ROCK BEAT” CAUSES YOUTH TO REBEL AGAINST THEIR PARENTS
Fourteen-year-old Sari Ann Mitchell of California received a booklet entitled, Notice of Complaint Against the Unrecognized Enemy in the Church. This booklet contains testimonies from young people about how “Christian rock” has damaged their walk with the Lord and their relationships with others. After reading the booklet, she sent it along with the following letter of appeal to her pastor:
Dear Pastor,
January 19, 1990
“I have been praying for a way to express how I feel about ‘Christian contemporary’ music to my friends and others. I was so happy to receive this booklet in the mail that I wanted to share it with you. I want to add my own personal testimony to the many in this booklet.
“I started listening to ‘Christian contemporary’ (rock) music when I was twelve. At this time I was attending a private Christian school, and there my friends all listened to it. The pressure was great, so I started to listen to some of their tapes once in a while.
“I became hooked. It may be hard to believe, but that music made me think sensuous thoughts, and the beat made me want to sway and dance like the world. After this I started to listen to ‘Christian contemporary’ music all the time, and even though my parents didn’t like it, I got some tapes of my own to listen to.
“One day, I went to my friend’s house, and she had her radio on. It was on a secular soft rock station. When I got home I turned my radio to that same station. I listened to it just once in a while, and it sounded just like the ‘Christian contemporary’ music, except the words were a little different. (Actually, I didn’t even listen to the words!)
“When I started to make these compromises, I started to make other compromises too, like stopping my daily devotions and listening to music instead of studying. When I did do my homework, I listened to music, and I cheated on some of my homework so I could have time after school to listen to music. I shut myself up in my room and became secluded so I could listen to it.
“At this time, I also began to rebel against my parents, spreading from rebellion in music to rebellion in clothes. Then my Dad and Mom took me to a Basic Youth Seminar. There I heard stuff I had never heard before about music, dating, marriage, disloyalty, bitterness, genuine love, and much more.
“After that Seminar, I started to think about where my life was going. It wasn’t going how I wanted it to go, no matter how hard I tried! I knew something was very wrong. Then I went to the Advanced Seminar. This cleared it up. I was going downhill, and only God could pull me up, so I gave it all up to Him, and every day He pulls me up a little higher.
“I have to tell you this because I want you to know I’m not just saying that I think ‘Christian contemporary’ music is bad and is compromising—I know it is. There’s only one way to get out of its addictive clutch, and that’s to give it up to God. So please don’t let this wolf sneak into the church and kill people unaware.”
— Sari Ann Mitchell, age 14, California
Even if parents are “too strict” in rejecting the “rock beat,” God expects their children to obey them.
“… We have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence. . . . For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure…” (Hebrews 12:9—10).
HOW A TRUSTED MAGAZINE IS URGING TEENS TO DISHONOR THEIR PARENTS
On the cover of the January 1990 edition of a respected and trusted Christian youth magazine, there appeared the title: “Sing Your Freedom.” On page 32 is the following article, entitled, “Shake Down at Home.”
“It’s easy to avoid talking to your parents about music, because it tends to be a touchy subject. But before conflicts arise, communicate with your parents about the music you like. This will help them understand why your music is important to you.
“Here are some suggestions for developing communication with your parents about music. These ideas come from discussions with three teenagers. [vs. Scripture]
• “Don’t play your music so loud that ‘the whole house is shaking.. . .‘ If you’re considerate about the volume, you will show your parents that you’re mature enough to be thoughtful of others. [vs. obedient to parents]
• “Share your enthusiasm with your parents. . . . This is a way to show your parents how important your music is to you.
• “Choose carefully the songs to play for them. Chances are that your parents like a different style of music. For your parents, listening to your music may be a bit like trying to understand a foreign language. So choose a song that has clear words and an understandable message. [What an indictment to much of the music!]
• “After you listen to a song together, talk about it…. [One of the three teenagers] explains to his parents what the writer is trying to say. . . . Talking to your parents about the words shows your parents that you’ve listened to the lyrics and have thought about what they mean.
• “Be willing to listen to your parents’ music. If they are willing to listen to your music, it’s nice to meet them halfway.
• “Don’t expect too much; you may not convert them to your style of music. Different generations tend to like different types of music. Your goal is to communicate to your parents why your music is important to you.” [Emphasis added]
What a shocking article!!
Observations about this article:
• The reference to “the whole house shaking” leaves no doubt that we are talking about “rock music.”
• The writer is very aware that many parents of teenagers are not in favor of the music which their sons and daughters are playing.
• Rather than encouraging the young people to honor and obey their parents’ wishes, the writer instructs them to stand up for the rights to “their music.”
• What appalling counsel to say, “Be willing to listen to your parents’ music. If your parents are willing to listen to your music, it’s nice to meet them halfway.”
• Deception is encouraged by urging the young people to “choose carefully the songs to play for them.. . . Choose a song that has clear words and an understandable message.”
• To say that “different generations tend to like different types of music” is to totally disregard the destructive nature of the “rock beat.” This statement also disregards the true meaning of deference.
• Deference is limiting my freedom in order not to offend the tastes of those God has called me to serve.
• The conclusion of the article is a blatant defiance of parental authority: “Don’t expect too much; you may not convert them to your style of music. . . . Your goal is to communicate to your parents why your music is important to you.”
The goal of God’s instruction in Ephesians 6 is not for the parents to capitulate to the will of their children, but for sons and daughters to obey and honor their parents. Any teenager who disregards the instruction to honor his father and mother will experience the consequences of which God warns in Proverbs 30:17:
“The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it.”
II. THE “ROCK BEAT” VIOLATES GOD’S COMMAND TO “GIVE NO PLACE TO THE DEVIL.”
When sons and daughters disregard the instruction of their parents by listening to the “rock beat,” they are guilty of the kind of rebellion which is described in 1 Samuel 15:23:
“For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry…”
Rebellion is simply reserving for myself the right to make final decisions. It is deciding to have an equal voice with those whom God has placed in authority over me. This was the type of rebellion which Satan demonstrated when he said, “. . . I will be like the most High [God]” (Isaiah 14:14).
Witchcraft involves exposing oneself to the realm and the power of Satan’s control. Whoever gives Satan such “ground” violates the command of Ephesians 4:27. “Neither give place [ground] to the devil.” The Greek word for “place” in this verse refers to a sphere of jurisdiction. When Satan is given authority, he uses it to control and destroy the one who gave it to him.
HOW SATAN GAINED “GROUND” WHEN A TEENAGER LISTENED TO THE “ROCK BEAT”
“I started listening to ‘contemporary Christian’ music about four years ago. I thought that the music was OK, and
I enjoyed it, but one day I was listening to a Christian radio station and a song came on that I have never heard. I liked the song even though it was questionable.
“When the group who played that song came to town, I went to their concert with some friends. I knew, however, that my parents would not have approved had they known what type of music was played.
“After the concert, I borrowed money from a friend to buy their tape. I brought it home, but my parents did not want me to keep it. I did anyway.
“I listened to it all the time and finally bought some other ‘Christian rock’ tapes even though my parents did not want me to. I listened to them for a while but soon got bored with them.
“I then started listening to secular rock on a light rock station without my parents’ knowledge.
“I began to want to listen to rock music more and more, and I began to enjoy the harder stuff. I soon changed stations to a hard rock station so I could listen to the harder stuff.
“After listening to that station for about a year (all without my parents’ knowledge), I found that the stuff I liked the station could play only at night. So I got the tapes of some of the groups I liked, and I found that I loved heavy metal. I just couldn’t get enough.
“When I finally faced the reality of how wrong I was, I made commitments to give it up. However, I still struggle with it daily, and every time I hear it I am tempted to get back into it.”
— David Brown, age 16, Arizona
THE TESTIMONY OF A FORMER SATANIST HIGH PRIEST THAT THE “ROCK BEAT” GIVES “GROUND”
“My background is not a good one, but I give thanks and praise to God for saving me from it. I was a Satanist high priest for nine years.
“I am writing in regard to ‘Christian music’ or what is called ‘power tracts,’ ‘Christian rock and roll,’ and ‘contemporary Christian’ music, and their counterparts, rock and roll, heavy metal, black metal, country music, rap, and punk.
“I understand that I cannot judge groups as to whether or not they are genuine believers. But the Bible does say that we are to judge their fruit.
“The Bible says that we are to be Christlike. Some groups who play this kind of ‘Christian’ music say that they do so because it’s the only way they can reach the young people of today. They claim that we must look like the world and use the world’s music in order to reach young people with the Word of God.
“How long will Christians allow themselves to be deceived and lied to by Satan [the father of lies]?
“The Bible says we are to be world–not a part of it. It also says be a friend with the world is to be an of God.
“As ambassadors for Christ, we should represent Him the best we can. Christ never changed His appearance, whether He talked with kings or the poor.
“When I first became involved in the occult, music had a big influence on my life. It was not just the words but the music itself. Its affect on me spiritually was to bring me into another state of consciousness.
“The beat and style of the music used in the occult rituals is the same that I now hear in ‘Christian power tracts,’ ‘Christian rock and roll,’ ‘Christian rap,’ and in much of what is called ‘Christian contemporary’ music today.
“People who were saved from the youth culture of today say, ‘I cannot listen to this new Christian music, because when I hear it, it takes me back to my past when I was lost it brings all that back to me–lustful desires, love of money, sex, suicide, and rebellion against authority.’
“Think of the struggle that these young Christians have when they try to separate the things of the world from the things of God. When they hear what is called ‘Christian’ music that sounds just like the world, these vulnerable young Christians become confused and the music becomes a stumbling block in their lives.
“Normally a Christian will take only what is good and leave the bad. This discernment does not always work with music, however, because if the music is bad and the words are good, many Christians are not able to separate them and both are swallowed together.
“Satan tried a mixed-message tactic on Jesus in the desert when he misquoted Scripture by mixing it with half-truths. Jesus rebuked Satan for this tactic and quoted the whole truth back to him.”
— David Pratt, Chattanooga, Tennessee
THE SECOND WITNESS THAT THE “ROCK BEAT” ITSELF IS DEMONIC
In April 1990, a Christian from Zimbabwe, Africa, arrived for his first visit to the United States. He is a native missionary under the Awana Youth Association. When he turned on a Christian radio station and listened to the music, he was shocked. Here is his report:
“I am very sensitive to the beat in music, because when I was a boy, I played the drums in our village worship rituals. The beat that I played on the drum was to get the demon spirits into the people.
“When I became a Christian, I rejected this kind of beat because I realized how damaging it was.
“When I turned on a Christian radio station in the United States, I was shocked. The same beat that I used to play to call up the evil spirits is in the music I heard on the Christian station.”
— Stephen Maphosah, Zimbabwe, Africa
A THIRD WITNESS THAT THE “ROCK BEAT” DOES GIVE “GROUND” TO THE DEVIL
“In 1981, I was driving down a jungle road in the Ivory Coast with several African pastors in the car with me. I had recently received a couple of cassette tapes from our denominational headquarters that were intended for our teenaged daughter.
“These were recordings of various ‘Christian rock’ artists. In listening to the tapes, I was very disturbed in my own spirit that such material was being sent to our missionary kids.
“But not trusting my own reaction alone and realizing that these pastors with whom I was traveling were very sensitive to the spirit world (both good and evil), I decided to play the tapes for them. The reaction I got was immediate and verbally violent!
“One of the pastors asked me this question, ‘Do you mean to tell us that this kind of music is played in your churches in America?’
“I answered in the affirmative. His response was filled with disgust and anger as he replied with another question. ‘What are you doing allowing your church people in America to call up the evil spirits with their music?”
— Rev. Joe Meyers, Tacoma, Washington
III. THE “ROCK BEAT” MOCKS GOD’S COMMAND TO “LOVE NOT THE WORLD.”
There is absolutely no way that Christians who love the “rock beat” can deny that they love the world. The “rock beat” not only originated with the ungodly elements of this world, but it expresses the evil intentions of the world’s system which is opposed to Christ and His Truth. The very phrase “rock ‘n’ roll” describes a form of immorality. To say that we can have “Christian rock” is like saying we can have “Christian immorality.”
Furthermore the “rock beat” does not come alone. It was originally designed to stir up and express rebellion to authority, as well as immorality. Those who try to put Christian words to a “rock beat” are simply imitating the world, and because one of the strongest evidences of admiration is imitation, they are guilty of violating God’s command in 1 John 2:15-16:
“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.”
God condemns any Christian who loves the world.
“Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God” (James 4.4).
Christians are to be in the world but not of the world. We are not to be influenced by their evil ways; instead, we are to be a light in their darkness.
God brought judgment to His own people when they “. . . mingled among the heathen, and learned their works. And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them. Therefore was the wrath of the Lord kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance. And he gave them into the hand of the heathen; and they that hated them ruled over them” (Psalm 106:35-42).
HOW THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION LINKS THE “ROCK BEAT” WITH THE WORLD
“Doctors should be alert to the listening habits of young patients as a clue to their emotional health, because fascination with rock ‘n’ roll, especially heavy metal music, may be associated with drug use, premarital sex and satanic rites,’ a committee of the American Medical Association said.
“At the very least, commitment to a rock subculture is symptomatic of adolescent alienation,’ the AMA’s Group on Science and Technology said in its report, ‘Adolescents and Their Music,’ published by the Journal of the American Medical Association.
“The AMA committee reported that ‘the average teenager listens to 10,400 hours of rock music during the years between the 7th and 12th grades, and music surpasses television as an influence in teenagers’ lives. While TV viewing often is supervised by parents, music largely is uncensored,’ the committee said.
“As an important agent of adolescent socialization, however, the negative messages of rock music should not be dismissed,’ the committee said.
“The committee cited ‘. . . evidence linking involvement in rock culture with low school achievement, drugs, sexual activity and even satanic activities.’
“The committee expressed special concern about two relatively recent developments in rock music–heavy metal rock and music videos.
“The violent and sexual content of the video images are disturbing to many,’ the committee said. … A study found that 7th and 10th graders, after watching one hour of music videos, were more likely to approve of premarital sex than were a control group of adolescents” (reported in the ChicagoSun Times, September 15,1989).
IV. THE “ROCK BEAT” DISREGARDS GOD’S COMMAND NOT TO OFFEND OTHER CHRISTIANS
On Friday afternoon, May 18, 1990, a twenty-year-old man attending the Detroit Basic Seminar asked the following question.
“Several years ago I was saved out of a life of immorality and drugs. The church I began attending told me to get rid of my rock music. I did and have been growing in the Lord. But now my church is playing the same kind of music they told me to give up. What am I to do?”
This grievous question exposes the violation of the law of love in the matter of “Christian rock” music. It brings us directly to the appeal of the Apostle Paul regarding questionable things: It is good not to do “…any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak” (Romans 14:21).
This vital command is repeated in 1 Corinthians 8:9-13. It puts to silence any Christian who says he has a right to play the music that he enjoys.
“But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. . . . And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. . .”
The “rock beat” offends Christians who, when they first hear it, immediately discern in their spirits that it is not of God but is of the world.
HOW A YOUNG MISSIONARY WAS OFFENDED BY THE “ROCK BEAT”
“In the summer of 1988, I attended a missionary training conference with many other Christian young people. Some of the music contained a subtle “rock beat.” The beat offended me, and I decided to appeal to the leader of the group.
“However, before I could make my appeal, he preached a message to the whole group justifying the ‘rock beat’ by condemning anyone who judged another person for his music style.
“Last year, a much larger conference was held by the same organization. This time I was absolutely shocked when I heard the music. The “rock beat” was so strong that many young people began to dance in a worldly manner.
“I was so grieved, I had to walk out of the meetings whenever the music was played. It was a strange mixture of pure worship and sensual beat.
“The conflicting messages created confusion in me and grieved my spirit.
“After the training we went into an area for outreach. Our goal was to bring young people into an evening meeting, but at the meeting, they again played the rock music. I could not even attend these meetings, and there were several others who felt the same way.
“We prayed and fasted and then made our appeal to the national Christian leaders. They received our appeal; however, they had been looking to the American Christians for an example and assumed that because the Americans did it, it must be right.”
—Janet Yast, age 27, Pennsylvania
“P.S. What disappoints me so much is that this leader has had such a great influence on my life. He is such a Godly man; I just cannot understand why he is not discerning in this area of compromise.”
HOW THE LAW OF SYMPATHETIC VIBRATION EXPLAINS WHY THE “ROCK BEAT” OFFENDS MANY
In music, there is a law of sympathetic vibration. This law is demonstrated by a tuning fork. When a note is played on the piano, the tuning fork vibrates at that pitch. Similarly, when we hear sounds, our whole body will either vibrate with the sound, or react to it. When a little child hears a syncopated “rock beat,” he will tend to sway and dance. If, however, the child is spiritually discerning, he will say to his parents, “That is bad music.”
The “rock beat” not only offends Christians who have not been exposed to it, but it also offends Christians who have come out of the rock culture and are trying to rid their lives of the rebellion and immorality that the “rock beat” stirs up in them.
HOW THE “ROCK BEAT” OFFENDS THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO ESCAPE THE WORLD’S CORRUPTION
“I used to reject my family and spend all my free time in my room listening to music that did not glorify God.
“I slid deeper and deeper into the satanic realm. I knew it was satanic, but I couldn’t get out. It also gave Satan a handle to get into other areas of my life.
“I loved the world and the world’s music. I listened to it, sang it, and talked about it, and when anyone said they didn’t listen to it, I would ridicule them.
“Rock music had dulled my senses. Even when I knew something was wrong, I would do it anyway.
“Rock is powerful, and if anyone tells you that it isn’t, they are lying.
“I needed it all the time, just like a smoker needs a smoke. I couldn’t go on a vacation without secretly taking a radio.
“I am now trying to get away from this kind of music. If anyone plays the ‘rock beat,’ it reminds me of songs that I can remember word for word, note for note.”
—Dan Steele, age 18, Minnesota
The “rock beat” is not only offending Christians in America, but it is especially grievous to Christians in other countries who are being influenced by American missionaries and visiting youth groups.
Stephen Maphosah, who was trained to use the beat for demonic worship (see testimony earlier), visited a Christian bookstore on June 25, 1990. He purchased samples of ten individual “contemporary Christian” musicians and groups that are among the most listened to by Christians in America.
He evaluated each tape on the basis of its beat. Some tapes contained the demonic beat that he was accustomed to in his ancestral worship of evil spirits. Other tapes contained a slower variation of the demonic beat. However, he classified all the tapes as “unacceptable and offensive to the Christians of this country.”
Why two sincere Christians can have opposing views onFREEDOM the same music
Two Christians may listen to a contemporary rock song and give totally opposite evaluations of it. One will say, “I know that song is wrong because it causes me to be rebellious and sensual.”
The other Christian may say, “I don’t see anything wrong with that music. It doesn’t stir up any rebellion or sensuality in me.”
Their viewpoints are illustrated in the chart “The Development of Concupiscence” given in the Basic Youth Conflicts Seminar. Music that becomes sensual will follow the stages leading to reprobation.
Therefore, if two Christians are on different levels in the development of reprobation, they will see the same music from two different viewpoints.
The Christian who has not given way to various sensual sins will recognize this music as a temptation to compromise in sensuality. Those who have engaged in sensual activities will probably not be stirred up by this music. Their previous sensuality has dulled their senses, and they are tempted only by a more radical expression of the “rock beat.”
Christian #1 will tend to view “Christian rock” as a temptation, whereas Christian #2 will see it as a mild expression of his musical taste.
In the early Church, Christians vehemently debated the matter of eating meat that had been offered to idols. Some Christians felt that it was wrong to eat this meat because it had been offered to an idol. Other Christians saw no problem with the meat since it was sold in the open market.
Paul pointed out that there was nothing intrinsically wrong with the meat, yet because it was offending other Christians it should not be eaten.
Therefore, the Holy Spirit and the early Church leaders unanimously condemned the eating of this meat because it caused weaker brothers to stumble. They commanded both Jewish and Gentile believers not to eat it. (See Acts 15:28-29.)
In the book of Revelation, two churches were rebuked because they had believers in them who were encouraging Christians to eat meat offered to idols. (See Revelation 2:14,20.)
If the meat offered to idols was condemned when it had nothing wrong with it, how much more should the “rock beat” be condemned in our churches, based on the following Scripture:
“But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died”(Romans 14:15).
The same principle applies to music.
V. THE “ROCK BEAT” DEFIES GOD’S COMMAND TO JUDGE ALL THINGS AS GOOD OR EVIL.
In the early years of the “Christian rock beat,” the beat and the sound were justified on the basis that “music is amoral.” If such a conclusion is accepted, then music is not a matter of good and evil, but simply a matter of personal taste. Yet such false reasoning is in total opposition to the words of Scripture. Music is the product of words and actions, and nowhere in Scripture is there an “amoral” classification for words and actions.
We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad” (2 Corinthians 5:10).
All Christians are commanded by God to exercise their spiritual senses in order to discern between good and evil.
“But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil” (Hebrews 5:14).
HOW A FAMILY DISCERNED THAT A “CHRISTIAN” CHILDREN’S TAPE WAS EVIL
“The day before our three-year-old daughter’s surgery, I went shopping for a small gift to give her when she came home from the hospital. At our local Christian bookstore I bought a tape of children’s songs.
“When she arrived home we presented her with the tape. She immediately wanted to hear it. We don’t own a television set, so listening to her tapes is one of her favorite pastimes.
“We played it for her and were disappointed to find that some of the songs had definite rock overtones to them. She picked up on this, too, because we have trained her to recognize the evil in ‘rock and roll’ music.
“Once we knew which songs we didn’t care for, we would just skip over them. Whenever she would ask to hear the tape and it came to a song we didn’t care for, she would ask us to fix the tape for her. That was all fine and well, but I noticed as time went on that she was wanting to listen to that particular tape more than her favorite tapes.
“At the same time, we started to notice some behavior changes in her that we didn’t really care for. She is a normal three-year-old who would challenge our authority, but she usually knew her boundaries. Usually she would pray and participate enthusiastically in our family devotions, pray before meals, be active and responsive in Sunday school, memorize Scripture, and love to sing songs about Jesus.
“However, the more she listened to this ‘Christian’ children’s tape, the more I noticed her behavior change. She started pushing, shoving, kicking, and biting her friends and her sister. She back-talked more than she ever dared before, and she made faces at us when we asked her to do something.
“She stopped participating in our devotions, stopped praying, didn’t want to go to church anymore, and started doing things I had never seen her or her friends do before. She became openly defiant and rebellious to her father and me, even hitting or kicking us if we asked her to accompany us on an errand or something along those lines.
“I honestly couldn’t figure out what was happening, but because I had been a very rebellious child when I was growing up, I thought I was beginning to reap what I had sown.
“Things continued to get worse. It seemed as though I was forever spanking her, standing her in the corner, or sending her to bed. I started doubting my ability as a parent, and this caused insecurity and other problems to come into my life. It literally affected our whole family, and we were constantly in a turmoil.
“We tried discipline, we tried reasoning, we prayed a hedge of thorns, and we tried easing up on the discipline. Nothing worked.
“Our personal devotions and prayer lives were affected. Instead of drawing closer to the Lord, I started drifting. This all happened in a three-week period of time. Finally, one evening after the children were in bed, my husband and I discussed our dilemma. He suggested that maybe we ought to do some ‘housecleaning.’
“The more I thought about it, the more I realized that our daughter’s behavior had started changing the day we gave her that tape. My husband was thinking the very same thing. We also noticed that some magazines we had been subscribing to had pictures of alcohol and cigarettes, and different cult articles were scattered throughout their pages. We decided to burn the tape and the magazines as soon as possible.
“The next morning after breakfast, we explained to our daughter what we intended to do. When she asked why, we told her that having these things in our house did not please Jesus. We showed her some of the pictures in the magazines, and she agreed with us. She wasn’t agreeable about including her tape in the things to be burned, but she didn’t put up as much of a fight as I had expected.
“We took everything outside, piled it up, and set fire to it as we all stood by and watched. When we came back in the house, we asked her to forgive us for allowing those things to come into our house. She did and then went on her way.
“This all happened on a Friday, and our daughter’s behavior was still pretty bad. However, by Monday the change in her behavior was incredible! I thought we had brought the wrong child home from church on Sunday!
“Our home is just about back to normal now, since our ‘umbrella’ has been patched. The change in our daughter has been obvious, not only to us but also to our friends who went through this with us. We have learned much from this experience, mainly to be careful about what things enter our home.
“Not everything labeled ‘Christian’ contains the Lord’s blessing.”
–The Patrick Halt family, Maryland
Evaluating the evil of the “rock beat” is not a matter of musical ability, but rather of spiritual discernment.
“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1).
VI. THE “ROCK BEAT” DISOBEYS GOD’S COMMAND TO AVOID “ALL APPEARANCE OF EVIL.”
A Christian magazine that claims to be “the most widely read resource serving youth ministry” contains a chart in its September 1990 issue which matches every worldly rock sound with a comparable “Christian rock” group sound.
Notice the categories:
• Heavy metal
• Punk/Thrash
• Rap
• Dance pop
• Pop/Rock
• Rock ‘n’ roll
• Difficult-to-categorize
Not only are “Christian rock” groups imitating the sound of evil rock groups, but they are also copying the evil dress styles and appearance of the world’s musicians. An impartial observer would find it difficult, if not impossible, to distinguish between many “Christian rock” groups and worldly rock groups by simply looking at their album covers.
So-called “Christian groups” are now even using satanic symbols on their album covers.
How can Christians justify such a blatant disobedience to the clear command of Scripture?
“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from ALL appearance of evil” (1 Thessalonians 5 :21-22).
Not only is it difficult, if not impossible, to distinguish worldly rock groups from most “Christian rock” groups, but it is also very hard to determine which members are men and which ones are women, because of the long hair, skirts, and other attire worn by many of the men. This is in clear violation of the following instruction of Scripture:
“Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?” (1 Corinthians 11:14).
“The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God” (Deuteronomy 22:5).
VII. THE “ROCK BEAT” CONTRADICTS GOD’S COMMAND NOT TO BE BROUGHT UNDER ITS POWER.
The “rock beat” is, in and of itself, an addiction. Those who vibrate with it begin to desire more and more of it.
Like a drug addiction, one’s appetite for it increases so that the “rock beat” in “contemporary Christian” music soon becomes dissatisfying, and a stronger beat is required. The “rock beat” therefore violates the following Scripture:
“All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient. . . . I will not be brought under the power of any” (1 Corinthians 6:12).
Seventeen-year-old Susanna adds her testimony to several others in this booklet to confirm the addictive nature of the “rock beat”:
A TEENAGER’S APPEAL TO REJECT THE “ROCK BEAT” BECAUSE IT IS SUCH A POWERFUL ADDICTION
“I started to listen to ‘Christian rock’ when I was eleven. Each time I heard it, I felt rebellious and had sensual thoughts.
“The feelings grew stronger as my music got harder.
“I finally realized this music was wrong, and I tried to get rid of all my music tapes, but I would always slip back into it.
“I am seventeen years old now, and I still struggle with this music. It is very addictive and so easy to slip back into.
“I pray that as you read of my struggles and of the struggles of other young people, you will want to keep this damaging tool of Satan out of our lives, our homes, and our churches.”
— Susanna Dressier, age 17, Indiana
ANOTHER TESTIMONY OF HOW ADDICTIVE THE “ROCK BEAT” IS
“In the summer of 1989, 1 purposed that I would listen only to music which is glorifying to God.
“However, Satan had a stronghold in my life because I listened to rock music for many years. As a result the sounds and words were embedded in my memory.
“As the teachers at school lectured, or as I ate lunch or walked through the hail and heard any word that was in a song, I would begin singing a song that the word reminded me of.
“Every conversation brought a song to my mind. Thus every day, evil lyrics were embedded deeper into my spirit.
“Only as I recognized the demonic nature of this addiction was I able to deal with it in a Scriptural way.”
—Brandi Brace, age 29, Kansas
“Reaching teenagers” with “Christian rock” music is like giving out liquor with Bible verses on the bottles.
VIII. THE “ROCK BEAT” OPPOSES GOD’S COMMAND NOT TO MIX LIGHT WITH DARKNESS.
Most of those who promote “Christian rock” music would agree that the rock music of the world is evil. However, they reason that by putting Christian words to the same beat, the world’s music is somehow made right.
This human reasoning is directly opposed to the instruction of Scripture.
“… What fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?” (2 Corinthians 6:14-15).
In the days of the prophet Haggai, the priests were called together and asked some very pertinent questions. The answers which these priests gave have direct application in the matter of mixing Christian words with an ungodly beat.
“If one bear holy flesh in the skirt of his garment, and with his skirt do touch bread, or pottage, or wine, or oil, or any meat, shall it be holy? And the priests answered and said, No. If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, shall it be unclean? And the priests answered and said, It shall be unclean” (Haggai 2:12-13).
If a priest who had been cleansed would touch something unclean, he would not purify the unclean; however, the unclean thing he touched would make him unclean.
Similarly, the thought of making unclean music acceptable by putting Christian words to it is in direct violation of the following command:
“Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you” (2 Corinthians 6:17).
The chief justification for combining the pure words of Scripture with the unclean music of the world is that this is the method by which we will reach non-Christians. There are several fallacies to this reasoning.
God ordained preaching, not music, to reach the lost.
There are two primary purposes for music in the life of a Christian. The first is to praise and worship Cod. The second is to edify other Christians. This is the clear teaching of Ephesians 5:19: “Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord.”
When it comes to reaching the lost, God ordained preaching, rather than music, to accomplish this goal. “. . . It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe” (1 Corinthians 1:21). (See also 1 Corinthians 1:18.)
Based on these points, the commands of Ephesians 5:6-12 are pertinent:
“Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light. . . . Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. . .”
IX. THE “ROCK BEAT” IGNORES GOD’S COMMAND FOR ALL MINISTERS TO BE QUALIFIED.
Scripture establishes strict standards for those who would teach others in the Church. A teacher must fulfill the qualifications listed in 1 Timothy 3 and also Titus 1. Churches go through careful ordination services to make sure that those who instruct Christians are qualified. Ironically, teachers who would never pass an ordination council are being welcomed into churches to teach the young people through music.
Worldly rock musicians who claim to be converted are immediately accepted as being qualified to teach Gospel truths to youth. This is in direct contradiction to the following requirement:
“Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil” (1 Timothy 3:6).
Even non-Christian musicians who talk about God are being listened to as teachers of truth. At the beginning of Christ’s ministry, the demons gave a very clear witness about Him. One of them said, “. . .I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God” (Mark 1:24).
Rather than allowing the demon to testify, Jesus commanded him to be silent. “And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace. . .” (Mark1:25).
Even Christians who give a witness for the Lord are instructed first to sanctify the Lord God in their hearts, according to 1 Peter 3:15.
Based on these factors, how can we justify presenting the truth of Scripture in the vulgar and demonic medium of the world’s rock?
To justify vulgar music on the basis that it is being used to communicate the Gospel is the same as justifying profanity in the pulpit or pornography in Gospel literature.
X. THE “ROCK BEAT” VIOLATES GOD’S COMMAND TO PROTECT OUR BODIES AS GOD’S TEMPLE.
When we become Christians, our bodies become the dwelling places of the Holy Spirit. Those who defile or damage God’s temple will be judged.
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are” (1 Corinthians 3:16127).
There are many ways in which the “rock beat” damages our bodies.
How the “rock beat” damages our hearing
As noted in many of the testimonies, one of the characteristics of the addictive nature of the “rock beat” is that the music must be played louder and louder. Safe decibel levels range from 20 to 65 decibels. As the decibel level of the music increases, irreversible hearing loss occurs. Some permanent damage is possible after eight continuous hours of 90-decibel sound. Rock concerts are consistently between 110 and 140 decibels. Exposure to noise at this level for more than one minute may cause permanent hearing damage.
How the “rock beat” damages our brain cells
When we listen to music, our minds try to bring the beat and the melody together. When there is an offbeat, the mind struggles to coordinate the two. A study conducted by a neurobiologist of Georgian Court College (Lakewood, New Jersey) and a physicist of Fairleigh Dickinson University (Rutherford, New Jersey) indicated the devastating effects that occur in animals when there is prolonged listening to a rock rhythm. The brain cells involved actually became deformed as they attempted to reconcile the beat to the melody.
How the “rock beat”damages our concentration
Further research has shown that noise threatens more than just hearing. It is now linked to increased levels of stress, high blood pressure, ulcers, and hormonal imbalance. One of the most common testimonies of young people is that they are unable to concentrate on the Scriptures while under the influence of the “rock beat.”
HOW A TEENAGER RESTORED PERSONAL WORSHIP BY DESTROYING THE “ROCK BEAT”
“I have listened to ‘contemporary Christian’ music all my life. My parents listened to it even before I was born.
“When they began listening in the early 1970s, the beat was much softer than it is today. However, both secular and ‘Christian contemporary’ music styles have changed. The beat of the music has gotten much harder and faster. The changes were subtle, so only in retrospect can I see where that wrong music led me.
“My parents would never allow me to listen to secular rock music. However, I disobeyed them and listened to it when they weren’t around. This was partly because of peer pressure. It was also because I was used to the beat of the ‘contemporary Christian’ music.
“I felt that some of the ‘Christian’ music had a harder beat than some of the secular music so there must not be anything wrong with the softer secular music. Listening to this music was feeding my growing rebellion toward my parents by putting wrong thoughts and attitudes in my mind. This music also led to lowering my moral standards.
“In 1987 I stopped listening to secular music and focused totally on ‘contemporary Christian’ music. This did not correct my wrong attitudes, because I was still being fed by the wrong music. Then my pride increased. I felt I was better than a lot of people because I didn’t listen to the world’s music.
“In 1989 my parents became increasingly aware of how this wrong music was affecting my life. They began to try to change my views on it. I listened to the Striving for Excellence tapes, and our family read through the Bible and researched every Scripture that dealt with music.
“My parents prayed that I would give up this wrong music. During this time, God was working in my heart. I knew that ‘contemporary Christian’ music was not what my parents wanted for me, but I was afraid to give it up. It had been a part of my life for so long.
“In January of 1990, I met a large group of Christian young people who did not listen to any music with a rock beat in it. I was tremendously impressed with them. They had a peace and a joy that I didn’t have.
“On February 13,1990, I gave all my music to the Lord and burned all of my ‘Christian rock’ tapes. The results have been amazing!
“God has given me a new desire to know Him better. I have a peace in my life that I never even realized was missing. For years I had a stuttering problem that is now completely cleared up, and I have a new relationship with my parents that I have never had before.
“It was very important for me not just to get rid of the wrong music, but to replace it with right music.
“It is my prayer that every teenager will experience the freedom that I am now enjoying.”
— Christiane Quick, age 19, North Carolina
@child of god – thanks for leaving some space at the bottom for a few people to comment… 🙂 (only kidding).
The only thing I would say to you, is that the influence or ‘Christian rock’ music would have begun (here in Oz) back in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s. The likes of Larry Norman et al (Jesus movement) and others of his ilk began the charge up into the sanctuary.
A lot of “contemporary Christian rock” came out of Adelaide, as I remember some of the folks who were part of my church youth group back then, came from there, and they were playing all of his stuff, sometimes before/at youth meetings.
There is something very natural in the development of a person between childhood and adulthood – it’s called “adolescence” – something that Satan knows all about, and takes advantage of. I’m not handing out excuses here, it’s just a known fact (ask any parent…)
Adolescents (teenagers) like to show how ‘grown up’ they are, by making some decisions for themselves, and some parents let them do that to an extent, but quite often they screw up by making bad judgment calls, due to a lack of life experience.
That’s when mum and dad swing by with the “life ambulance” ready to pick up the pieces when it all goes bad. (Of course, this never happened to me…)
Having said that, let me also say this, in terms of a Christian family, this does not have to be. However, strong peer group pressure can often override the wisdom of your elders, and you, the teenager may then have to atone for your “teenage sins”…
by taking the consequences for your actions (dumb mistakes).
Godly parents should expect obedience from their kids growing up, but then they reach that golden age (18 here in Oz) where they become adults, and can do just about anything legal – vote, own property, drive a car (not your car, OK mum and dad?) and with that comes a lot more responsibility.
As I said, Satan knows about these sometimes difficult years, and seeks to deceive the teenager into believing that s/he can somehow become independent and leave mummy and daddy behind on a quest for “their best life now”, only to end up in the gutter, or in debt or worse.
It’s kind of like Adam and Eve being deceived by Satan that they could become independent of God’s loving, caring oversight, and partake of the “tree of knowledge” – they believed that they would gain ‘hidden knowledge’ (which is never a replacement for experience,) by foolishly partaking of “forbidden fruit” and we all know how that one ended up, don’t we…?
So kiddies, listen to mummy and daddy, and stay away from strangers who would offer you cheap thrills, as the outcomes may well lead to your downfall and destruction…
You all need to spend more time reading the bible and learning the foundations of Christianity. Instead of criticising other churches. Once your church can fill arenas every week through Christ’s favour then start talking. Jealousy. P.s your doing the brainwashing not hillsong !!!!
Joseph – “filling arenas”? You mean those Christians who were martyred in the Roman arenas during the early days of church history?
They fill arenas because the message of Hillsong tickles people ears. There’s no spiritual content to it whatsoever. Its all done in Jesus name only. They say they believe in the Trinity but its only talk. They actually deny the Father and the Holy Spirit.
“JESUS Hope for Humanity” is a subtle lie. Jesus doesn’t look on mankind as a mass of humanity but Hillsong does.
They need to get it right and stop deceiving people, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit is hope to individuals, not the single person of Jesus, to the nebulous nameless masses of so called humanity. It all looks good but below the surface lurks some really nasty stuff, mainly a huge lie from hell.
They have corrupted the truth of the Tabernacle of Moses and use no natural light. They use sparkly artificial lights only to peddle their lies. They are in way over their heads and don’t have a clue what they are doing but the eons old father of lies who drives them certainly knows what he is doing and doing it very very well.
@Joseph – looks like you need your brains ‘washed’ anyway – next you’ll be telling us that Brian Houston is a man of God.
You’ll join the rest of the ‘goats’ inside the Hillsong pen and say that he preaches the truth, feeds thousands of hungry people each week, builds his empire for his own glorification and harbours sex criminals…
Oh, sorry – I got those last two wrong didn’t I? Brian would never bathe in his own glory, and he would report serious sex offences to the police… wouldn’t he.
Both then and now…
Lol hope you copied and pasted all that rubbish because you wasted an awful lot of your youth if you didn’t…..only read the 1st paragraph and swiped my way down to the bottom after that.
Why are you so against Hillsong? They are preaching the GOSPEL and so many people are being saved and the glory is all for Jesus. What is causing divisions are websites like this… Their worship has revolutionized the world! Their album “No Other Name” is ALL about Jesus. Isn’t that what you guys are supposedly all about??
PS- I do not go to Hillsong.
@Jessica:
“Why are you so against Hillsong?”
Well, let me lay it out for you:
1. They are not preaching the Gospel, as you may believe. Paul talked about a different Gospel, another ‘Jesus’ and another ‘spirit’ to the churches in his day (2 Corinthians 11:4) – that is what Hillsong preaches. Motivational rubbish.
2. So many people are ‘not’ being saved, Jessica, they are falling for a worldly Laodicean ‘church’, which includes hype, emotion, motivational speaking and money raking as part of its meetings – this is not the ‘church’ that Jesus Christ envisaged as His body of believers – it is false, and its “gospel” cannot save…
3. The true Church is not here to revolutionize the world Jessica – Jesus Christ is calling His people to “be in the world, but not of the world”. Using a ‘cool’ format with lots of nice people, background music and a soppy false gospel is not saving anybody Jessica. It is deceiving them into believing that they are saved…
“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passes away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abides for ever.” (2 John:15 – 17)
It is clear from their lifestyles, that Hillsong leadership loves the world.
4. What I/we are all about is the exposure of false man made movements like Hillsong, who use cult tactics to deceive people into joining their ranks. There are countless thousands of people who have come out of Hillsong and other ‘cloned’ organisations just like it, the world over. Thousands of them, and sometimes some of them come our way, just to let us know that they’ve left, due to our efforts…
If it really was revolutionizing the world (for Jesus) Jessica, they would have stayed in, but the didn’t – they saw through the charade of false religion, fake friends, “tithing” sermons and the ‘feel good’ atmosphere, and realised that they had been sold a pup, and left…
Jessica I/we don’t “hate” anybody – we may not like things that people do and say against us, but we are here “to earnestly contend for the faith” and that is a battle. It isn’t nice all of the time, but it must be done. False teaching and false prophecy etcetera must be exposed, as otherwise it will deceive many people so that they end up in a Christless eternity… in Hell.
Held up to the light of scripture, Hillsong and its clones do not match with anything that remotely resembles a Christian church Jessica – it’s just a religious social club, with plenty of meet ups, marketing and a cunningly devised backdrop.
Jesus didn’t die so that Brian Houston and his Hillsong cult could become healthy wealthy and wise, and we cannot allow the many’ false prophet’ movements just like Hillsong, to come along and destroy any real hope in the true Gospel, by our acquiescence…
I would like to commend and encourage you on your hard work exposing Heretical teacher’s and teachings eg; Hillsong and others.
I pray The Lord keep you strong and Bold in his Word and Love, Amen!
Thank You
Anna G
I think you are with all respect making a fool of yourself – please judge by fruit – people are getting saved and are getting to know Jesus – end – you are creating division
@Kazi – sorry, but we are intent on correcting biblical errors and exposing false doctrines and unbiblical practices, where Hillsong is concerned.
If you look at Romans 16:17 and 18, you will see that it is the false teachers who cause division – they are teaching things that are contrary to the doctrine that we learned by rightly dividing the word of God.
It is Brian Houston and his Hyper Faith based prosperity doctrine and his false gospel that are being exposed here, as well as other things Kazi.
Who said that ‘fruit’ was numbers? It isn’t – otherwise the JW’s and the Mormons would have ‘fruit’ too, despite their false Christ and false ‘Bibles’. ‘Fruit’ of the Holy Spirit is listed in Galatians 5:22, 23:
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.…”
It is Houston and Hillsong that are creating division – not us…
@kazi, My only concern is WHICH “Jesus” Hillsongites are getting to know? Do they know the Jesus that bled and died on the cross for our sins, the one that was the penal substitutionary sacrifice, the one that rose again and promised to return in all his glory? or do they know the Jesus that blesses you only when you give in your so called “tithes”, that heals only when you have “enough faith” and is the same “God” that Muslims serve and “worship”. Please enlighten me because i would really like to know “WHICH” Jesus they know?
Can anyone give me more clarity regarding Myles Munroe? For over the years I have never trusted him. Something about him put me off. And then I watched the youtube video where he preached on ‘’People don’t wanna hear about no Cross or no nails’’. Why are some many Christians honouring him as this great man of God when to me it appears that he was blaspheming the name of God!
Am I wrong? Am always open to correction.
Angelique – your instincts were spot-on.
http://pulpitandpen.org/2014/07/11/when-the-cross-isnt-the-center/
http://pulpitandpen.org/2014/11/09/myles-munroe-is-dead-be-filled-with-sorrow-and-joy/
Angelique A :
Myles Munroe goes against what Paul said we must do and that is to ” Preach Christ and preach him crucified “.
For the joy set before Him , Jesus endured the cross !
If anyone diverts away from what Christ achieved at Calvary , then its likely their doctrine is wrong in other places.
Wrong doctrine , wrong living .
You have done well to detect something is not right with Myles Munroe as a teacher.
Hey A B Thank you. All the credit goes to the Holy Spirit leading me. I have tried to warn my friends against his teachings and other like him. But they refuse to listen to me. Pray for them.
The reason why a lot of Christians are falling for deception is because they have forgotten Christ’s gospel message of salvation.
We have found this to be a very useful gospel-centered technique to lead people out of abusive churches:
First and foremost, get them to recall the gospel that saved them. Tell them to expand on their definitions of the gospel. Ask them when was the last time they heard that gospel preached at their church.
Finally, encourage them to compare the true gospel to what is preached in their church on Sunday. As long as the gospel is in the forefront of their minds, they start to see the legalism.
Try meeting up with them to see how they did in comparing the gospel message to their church’s message. If you can watch their church’s sermons on line, you can help them easier to spot the truth and the error.
You and your friends are in our prayer Angelique.
Unfortunately, Dr Myles Monroe died tragically with his family in a plane crash recently…
Here is a video clip of him denying the cross and blood of Christ:
Hillsong songs are not as Holy Spirit filled as people would like to believe. People who think so are very blinded by deception.
It flaky, superficial and carnal. No Holy Spirit presence.
Rarely does any of their songs magnify God or speak of His glory.
And the song Amazing Grace is beautiful heam, it needs no words to be taken away or added to it. They have gone and made a mockery of that beautiful heam. Maybe it’s because they don’t understand the grace of God and WHO HE really is.
They gather at that ‘church’ to worship the golden calf.
Hi Angelique – thanks for that interesting insight – Brian’s “tax free entertainment company” called Hillsong is just a front for money making and he uses the church imagery as the shop window dressing to get the crowd in.
Dark interiors contrasted by bright lights, stage bands and motivational speakers posing as ‘preachers’ complete the back drop which supports his various deceptions.
It’s been said here before, but thousands of people leave Hillsong each year, worldwide, due partly to our efforts, but many have simply seen it for themselves. They finally come to the place (like you did) where the mirage of prosperity fades, in favour of reality.
Brian cannot stop this ongoing revelation from happening, but nevertheless, many people remain blinded by the ‘bright lights’ of Hillsong, and the ever present hope of ascending the platform in some publicly recognised capacity.
You can’t fool all of the people all of the time – but Brian thinks he can fool most of the people most of the time, but his former acolytes and devotees are proving him wrong every day – and we pray that this trend continues – AMEN!!!
Seems I can’t spell. I meant to say hymne. And not heam..
Re: “Rarely does any of their songs magnify God or speak of His glory” ….. lol???
etc etc etc.
http://www.openbible.info/topics/correcting_a_brother
http://www.openbible.info/topics/only_god_can_judge
You may think you can condemn such people, but you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you who judge others do these very same things. So don’t judge nothing before the the Lord comes back. Then he’ll bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. But I seriously everyone who is angry with another person is liable to judgment; whoever insults someone else will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire…. scary stuff man >___>
I’m sorry ❤
“You may think you can condemn such people, but you are just as bad…”
It is nice to know that you agree with us that Hillsong is bad.
@ rellort: “So don’t judge nothing before the the Lord comes back.”
Is that really what the Bible says? Or what you say?
Are you confusing correction and right doctrine with “judging” ?
Rev 2:2-3
2 “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you HAVE TESTED THOSE who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars.”
2 Cor 11:12
“But what I do, I will also CONTINUE TO DO, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.”
Phil 3:17-19
“Brethren, JOIN IN FOLLOWING MY EXAMPLE, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. 18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame — who set their mind on earthly things.”
@rellort: But I seriously everyone who is angry with another person is liable to judgment.”
There is an anger which is not sinful, did you know that? Is Almighty God wrong in your opinion because of it?
Psalm 78:31 KJV “The wrath [anger] of God came upon them, and slew the fattest of them, and smote down the chosen men of Israel.”
Numbers 22:22 ” And God’s anger was kindled..”
Ephesians 5:6 “Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.”
Yes, the wrath of God…that…is anger in a Holy Cause..of a Holy God.
Jesus Christ was angry at the moneychangers..are you saying that Jesus Christ is liable to your theories? Moses, Ezekiel versus the prophets of Baal, Apostle Peter vs Simon Magus, John the Baptist..all got angry..but not the anger you are thinking of, and wrongly applying your own reasoning to Scripture.
It is a CAUSELESS anger that is wrong, not ‘all’ anger. The zeal for the Glory of God, the cause of Christ and correct Doctrine, against sin, false doctrine, false worship, false teachers and false apostles is a cause commanded by the Word of God.
I hope you can provide Holy Scripture for your next comments and beliefs..hillsong ‘songclips’ will just not do.
Please think and pray for discernment.
Correction..That should be Elijah VS the prophets of baal. Superb story.
@thetruth:
lol okay to your comment ———> “please provide holy scripture for your next comments”………… if you know the bible SOOOO well did you not realise that everything I said came from God himself (2 TIMOTHY 3:16)?? I didn’t ‘reference’ what i said, because i assumed you wouldve known that everything I wrote came from the bible itself?????? ???????????????????????????? It’s abit of a face palm moment really when you said “is this really what the bible says or what you say”… LOL.
I didn’t write it off the top of my head man im not that smart lols….
So I shall restate WITH “holy scripture” reference (please google if you dont believe me):
You may think you can condemn such people, but you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you who judge others do these very same things (ROMANS 2:1). So don’t judge nothing before the the Lord comes back. Then he’ll bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart (1 CORINTHIANS 4:5). But seriously everyone who is angry with another person is liable to judgment; whoever insults someone else will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire (MATTHEW 5:22)…. scary stuff man >___> (REVELATIONS 14:11 -> i.e. scary)
Furthermore, I dont think anyone gets angry for no reason. there’s always a reason to be angry; otherwise you’ll be happy. so not sure what you mean by “clauseless anger”. If you get pissed off easily well then, that ‘little thing’ that pissed you off is the cause, and thus not clauseless. Please find the bible verse that clearly explains when ‘anger’ that is sinful – and don’t say when it’s “clauseless” because that is NOT correct. And i know God is angry, rightfully too, otherwise rainbows wouldn’t exist (noah story if you need ref).. lol. I probably annoy God all the time to be honest, he still loves us anyway lol. I mean why would you want such a scary as father.. if i had another dad i want one who treats me like a princess, like all parents would to their children. doesn’t mean that they’ll get to do whatever they want, hence discipline. derp. regardless, dont be a derpy. and seriously dont say i didnt reference bible verses in THIS paragraph so im wrong, go find them yourself man. but since you seem pretty cleaver im sure you can see which passages they came from.
and finally, at the end of the dayyyyyyyy God knows what’s in your heart and you and him can go discuss about this website and stuff when you get to meet him one day…
Re your quotes of individual bible verses:
http://www.northforest.org/BibleInterpret/hermeneutics3.html
You need to learn basic in context usage of scripture. Who, when, where, what, why and how.
e.g. Who were they addressed to? When written, was it Gospel/ early church letter?
@Rellort,
“… im [sic] not that smart …”
You’re clearly a big fan of stating the bleeding obvious; no doubt Brian Houston seems like an intellectual giant to you.
I disagree! Dont know were you get your “facts” but their music lifts up the name of God, Jesus, & Holy Spirit. Listen to the lyrics cas your claiming the total opposite. Have mercy on us God.
So who is the person who attended Hawkesbury Christian Centre. My name is Jon Dorhauer and I was a Pastor at that church and NEVER did Ps Ian Woods say to treat Frank Houston like royality. If you have something to say, then publish your name. Makes me sick these people who take delight in half truths and attack churches that are doing their best.
Are you calling a parent who attended the church during this time, a liar? Was the congregation made aware of the charges against Frank Houston at that time?
Team ChurchWatch.
http://www.lifechurch.asn.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=79
Interesting. Didn’t see much sympathy for the victims of Mercy ministries on that page.
Didn’t see much sympathy for the Victims of frank houston on that page.
The Royal commission didn’t get a mention, especially where brian swore on the Holy Bible that he has NO financial OR moral responsibility for the victims of his father.
“My name is Jon Dorhauer and I was a Pastor at that church […]”
If you have had any truck with Frank or Brian Houston, you are most certainly not a “pastor” by any stretch of the imagination, Jon.
“Makes me sick these people who take delight in half truths […]”
You know what makes *me* sick, Jon? The sort of things that Frank Houston did, and that others subsequently covered up, that’s what.
“[…] and attack churches that are doing their best.”
“Doing their best” – yeah, that’s right: self-effort, because God’s Spirit is absent, so all that is left are the empty works of hollow men. Striving in the flesh yields nothing but filthy rags, and popularity and wordly acclaim are sure signs of an impending judgement that will come swiftly enough in it’s time. If you really were a genuine pastor, you would have already known that.
Why don’t you give your names? I’m not into Hillsongs AT ALL but it really galls me when accusations are spewed out like vomit and people hide behind a code name. At least Elijah stood face to face before the false prophets and they knew who he was. He was not afraid to let his enemies know who he was. It’s really a shame when accusers remain nameless and the one being accused cannot defend himself against unknown opposers.
“but it really galls me when accusations are spewed out like vomit”
You imply what’s said is not true and is “vomit.” Maybe what you are saying is really the “vomit.”
You can’t even spell their name correctly. It’s “Hillsong.” This shows you haven’t done any research into them at all. You don’t even know their name.
And who anointed you to make all the rules, mate?
“Makes me sick these people who take delight in half truths”
———————————————————
and you know what makes me sick, jon?
ppl like YOU who go onto truth blogs, get all self-righteousness about how much you supposedly ‘HATE’ the ‘half-truths’ there, while YOU YOURSELF push brian houston who always parades around his pack of FALSE TEACHER FRIENDS.
how insane.
nfg
“…..Makes me sick these people who take delight in half truths… ”
Can you please show where Hillsongchurchwatch’s claims are in error, using factual evidence (NOT ad hominem attacks)? Thanks in advance.
“…and attack churches that are doing their best.”
That’s one of the major problems! They are doing their best by their own human effort, by their own good works, to please PEOPLE – is Hillsong church doing God’s will, are they preaching the WHOLE Gospel, are they bringing God *Himself* glory, are they pleasing GOD?
Jon. Frank was a Peadophile. It Needed to be reported. I am a bible college student and one of the first lessons they taught us was that ANY incidents MUST be reported. No Cover ups, no moving people to another congregation. Reported. Investiggated bt the authorities who were implemented by God to punish evil doers.
“No Cover ups, no moving people to another congregation.”
First it was Frank. Then it was Reed & Josh.
Watch ’em do the Hillsong Shuffle!
@Thor:
“It’s been said here before, but thousands of people leave Hillsong each year, worldwide, due partly to our efforts….”
Very interesting. Can you please post some facts or links to substantiate this? Thanks!
@Troy – please tell me which kind of “facts and linbks” you would believe, without ridicule or further questioning? What kind of ‘proof’ would you accept @Troy, or are you just another Hillsong Hireling, who paints a target on the backs of anyone who dares to complain, or expose this false profit cult???
All you have to do Troy, is Google something like “people leave Hillsong because it is a cult” or, alternatively, you could simply read the posts of Angelique on this thread, and multiply them by several thousand.
Every post I’ve ever read from ex Hillsongers, is more or less the same – they state that they finally realised that “something was wrong”, and that when they approached the ‘pastor’ or friends within the congregation with their issues, they were demoted, silenced and/or told to leave.
Go figure…
@Troy – here’s a link where youu could start your ‘research’ on why Hillsong is a cult (as perceived by both atheists and believers) amongst the 70 comments following on from the article (and don’t forget to watch the video too…):
http://marctv.de/blog/the-hillsong-church-cult/
You got a little defensive there. I was only asking how you know thousands leave the church every year, where did you find those figures. And you mentioned that it was partly due to “our efforts”, how do you know this? Not saying it isn’t true, just asking for you to post some additional links or something to show this to be true. If it is true, then well done, your efforts have paid off.
Hey Troy,
Bobbie Houston has stated that “Kingdom Women Love Sex”.
How does she know this? Not saying it isn’t true, just asking for you to post some additional links or something to show this to be true. If it is true, then well done, the efforts of “Kingdom Men” have paid off.
@Troy – it is not a matter of being defensive per se – we are constantly asked for the same info, and sometimes by the same people. They want us to do their homework for them and are often too lazy to even search this blog site for their answers…
Hillsong leaders know the truth Troy – major sins and crimes were covered up in the case of Frank Houston – how many other ‘cover ups’ are yet to be uncovered???
@Amused – off course the ‘Kingdom Men’ you mentioned would had to have read the book first right?
“[…] the ‘Kingdom Men’ you mentioned would had to have read the book first right?”
That’s true; unfortunately, they don’t go much for reading – Kingdom Men Love Beer and Pizza.
Hey Troy,
Brian Houston has stated that Christians and muslims worship the same God.
Can you please post some facts or links to substantiate this? Thanks!
Ha ha ha ha ha – very funny CW – I’ll bet that’s one set of ‘facts and links’ Troy just doesn’t want to know about… 🙂
@Rock Strongo
“Then there’s also the many problems with their doctrine and false gospel.”
Lovely, right when the country needs some wisdom and comfort Brian posts this:
“If you choose calling over comfort the cost is lost in the joy you find! – Brian”.
The man’s a fraud and a hireling. Your calling and comfort go hand in hand. If your calling isn’t comfortable its not your calling. For someone with so much influence he he is lying to millions right there. Its like saying choose calling over the Holy Spirit, the Comforter. Its a sentence that makes no sense and a lie.
What hope do we have as this wolf in sheep’s clothing carries on unaccountable. The man denies the Holy Spirit right there, there is no way you can be uncomfortable in your calling, although he sounds like he may be very uncomfortable. From that post he has no idea what a calling is and has no authority to give any advice in the subject.
Also what’s this about cost, Its gospel 101, there is no cost, in Christ, He’s paid for it all but Brian wants us all to keep on paying. What a shocking excuse for a man of such high regard. Also what’s choice got to do with it. That post is full of lies from a religious manipulator who only knows how to tell lies, learned it off his father.
The country is in the worst crisis since WW2 if of all time and we have this.
@do tell: “Its a sentence that makes no sense..”
I, and many others have also noticed the increasing frequency of brian and his nonsensical ‘messages’.
Another recent tweet of his is: ‘I hate evil”.
[Sorry sex abuse victims of frank houston..that doesn’t include you ].
And his latest tweet:’Leaders goal: Shut out doubters, naysayers, cynics, & critics & listen to the trusted counsel that’s brought you this far!’
That is a cultish thought right there. Close your ears to any Biblical Truth that contradicts hillsong Inc..just trust brian and he will not lead the sheep off a cliff!
“If you choose calling over comfort the cost is lost in the joy you find! – Brian”.
On the surface that sounds like a fortune-cookie message. As an ex-Catholic I find it concerning.
Calling = another word for vocation. Was told in primary school that being a priest or a nun was a vocation.
Vocation (Google definition): “calling….a strong feeling of suitability for a particular career or occupation…….a person’s employment or main occupation, especially regarded as worthy and requiring dedication.” Therefore choosing a vocation in the *traditional* meaning of the world can come at a personal cost.
Not everyone is able to follow a separate calling as well as looking after job and family commitments Brian Houston. That tweet has a pro-Catholic viewpoint : good works e.g. following the calling you believe to be from God – not faith in Jesus Christ – results in joy. That is legalism in disguise.
“18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.”
Phil 1:18
I’m with Paul. Jesus Christ is preached and sung at hillsong, the only Name you constantly hear at Hillsong is the Name of Jesus. Yes, there is the Trinity, but God’s wrath would still be upon us if it wasn’t for Jesus and we wouldn’t even have the Holy Spirit with us if it wasn’t for Jesus sending it down. It was Jesus who conquered sin and death for us, it was Jesus who took upon Himself the wrath of the Father, it was Jesus who rose again and sent down His Spirit to us when He returned to the Father. All of scripture points to Jesus and His life on earth, His purpose to redeem us! Through him all things were made!
“1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.” John 1:1-3
He is our avenue to the father! What brings God more glory and joy than when someone comes to know Jesus and repents?! Jesus was and IS Gods master plan for the eternity of all people! God planned on Jesus coming in the beginning when Adam and Eve first sinned!
What other religion in the world believes that Jesus was and is God, that He was truly God in flesh among man, died and rose again and is coming back?!
All of this is the weight, the power and the divine message behind the Name of Jesus Christ!
I praise the God who through Him everything was created and reconciled me to the Father, His Name is Jesus! I believe Hillsong does too! Like Paul said, Christ is being preached! What else matters?
A wimpy, unorganized, underdeveloped blog/website full of hate and Pharisees preaching legalism isn’t going to take down a large originization preaching he Name of Jesus, but the power of the Holy Spirit can break through any heart and work through even the Pharisees of this website.
Keep Jesus the focus and repent of your judgements and hate…
May God have mercy on you and open your eyes to your legalistic gospel! And keep others from your heresy!
Fellow churchwatchers might like to respond to this comment.
“I believe Hillsong does too…..”
Provide evidence NOT personal opinion please. Sermon/ talk where Houston actually preaches Christ as revealed in the BIBLE.
e.g. Show an example where Houston preaches the Gospel message so readers can compare it to what the apostles did in Acts chapter 2, 1 Corinthians chapter 15.
If Houston is as good a preacher of Jesus Christ as you claim then you should have no difficulty finding material up to http://www.sermonaudio.com standards. Thanks in advance.
Do you go to Hilsong?
@’Deleted’ – so this is what they teach you at Hill$ong’s bible school?:
“A wimpy, unorganized, underdeveloped blog/website full of hate and Pharisees preaching legalism isn’t going to take down a large organization preaching the Name of Jesus, but the power of the Holy Spirit can break through any heart and work through even the Pharisees of this website…”
…and that’s the reason why Hillsongers keep on leaving in droves – because it is a ‘large organisation preaching the name of Jesus…?’ Note the word “Pharisees” in the above quote folks – that’s a classic Houston hallmark.
Jesus warned his followers about the “leaven of the Pharisees” – legalistic doctrines concocted and taught by men, rather than the commandments of God – that is what is taught at Hillsong. “You must tithe or you won’t be blessed (and you may even end up being cursed…) So ‘God’ is an auto-teller now? Deposit you 10% and you’ll get 100 times that back – sounds more like a poker machine… Is Hill$ong investing in Casinos, alongside Medical Centres?
This ‘wimpy website’ has informed thousands of Hillsongers worldwide, over some four years about their wayward leaders, their false teaching and their financial ponzi schemes (tithing, first fruits, honour the pastor offerings etc) and many have left.
Incidentally, can you show me in scripture where tithing was practiced in New Testament times? Can you also justify the other two items – first fruits and honour the pastor offerings??? Scriptures in context please…?
@deleted to make it easier for you, RE Houston’s gospel:
can you give an example where he preaches the same content (same message spoken in “Aussie Charismatic-lingo” or written in beginner’s style Christianity 101) from the last paragraph? http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/what-is-gospel/
‘May this website be deleted in Jesus’ name’.
You do know that your personal whims are not acceptable prayer, don’t you?
Are you ‘commanding’ Jesus Christ to fufill your imaginings?
Is it just this website you are ‘commanding’ Jesus christ to delete? Or the many others that have seen and exposed the hillsong false teachings, as commanded by Jesus Christ and His Holy Apostles?
Heck, don’t stop there deletion…you might have ‘command’ things like Television reports, newspapers, magazines, youtube and Royal commissions to be ‘deleted’ as well!
Hillsong teaches this new-age theory that God is there to serve their personal financial and self-serving wishes..He isn’t.
He is Almighty, it is Him you should serve, NOT your own personal ‘commands’.
As far as pharisees go, they were jewish..please learn about this very important part of discerning Christian history.
@delete: “website full of hate and Pharisees preaching legalism isn’t going to take down a large originization preaching he Name of Jesus”
Preaching the Name of Jesus..by hiding paedophile crimes?
Preaching the Name of Jesus..by the now defunct Mercy ministries?
Preaching the Name of Jesus..by investigations of misusing funds from government grants?
Preaching the Name of Jesus..by insisting on an unbiblical tithe to the houstons?
Preaching the Name of Jesus..by ignoring sex abuse victims?
Preaching the Name of Jesus..by brian houston deleting his twitter brain-snaps?
Preaching the Name of Jesus..by needing more money?
Preaching the Name of Jesus..by asserting we serve the same God as muslims?
The list is endless!
I pray your eyes are opened one day to whom you are serving..Jesus Christ or brian houston.
Hillsong statement of belief and I disagree with small parts of it.
We believe that the Bible is God’s Word. It is accurate, authoritative and applicable to our everyday lives.
We believe in one eternal God who is the Creator of all things. He exists in three Persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. He is totally loving and completely holy.
We believe that sin has separated each of us from God and His purpose for our lives.
We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ as both God and man is the only One who can reconcile us to God. He lived a sinless and exemplary life, died on the cross in our place, and rose again to prove His victory and empower us for life.
We believe that in order to receive forgiveness and the ‘new birth’ we must repent of our sins, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and submit to His will for our lives.
We believe that in order to live the holy and fruitful lives that God intends for us, we need to be baptised in water and be filled with the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit enables us to use spiritual gifts, including speaking in tongues.
We believe in the power and significance of the Church and the necessity of believers to meet regularly together for fellowship, prayer and the ‘breaking of bread’.
We believe that God has individually equipped us so that we can successfully achieve His purpose for our lives which is to worship God, fulfil our role in the Church and serve the community in which we live.
We believe that God wants to heal and transform us so that we can live healthy and blessed lives in order to help others more effectively.
We believe that our eternal destination of either Heaven or hell is determined by our response to the Lord Jesus Christ.
We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is coming back again as He promised.
Hillsong Church is a member of the Australian Christian Churches. A movement of almost 1100 churches and more than 250,000 believers across Australia.
Paul – Hillsong don’t even believe their own statement. It’s put up there to deceive people to thinking they are Christian. The proof is in their teaching, blasphemies, false prophecies and visions. The proof is in their lies, slander, bullying and divisive behaviour.
Hillsong is accountable to no one. Not even the ACC. Even the Royal Commission proved that.
I guess you would come up with a response like that 🙂 it is why I posted it
I have a dislike for hillsong but I doubt they would not believe their own statement of faith.
But churchwatcher you also act non christian like towards anyone that doesn’t fully agree with you. I’ve seen it in how you respond towards others on this and your other sites.
If they don’t fully agree with you then you automatically assume they are from hillsong.
Both sides of the fence are wrong as I don’t agree with hillsong and I don’t agree with how you guys act on here. I come on here to read your articles as some I find interesting and correct and some I find in error and misleading.
Paul – some of the ‘churchwatcher’ moderators have had really bad experiences in these churches and this is sometimes reflected in their comments/responses. Others have moved on but have great concerns for those still caught up under these false teachers. Sounding the alarm has helped many to ‘wake up’, and leave – having found greener pastures.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“I have a dislike for hillsong but I doubt they would not believe their own statement of faith.”
Then you’re not listening to their sermons or seeing how they operate in the public eye.
“If they don’t fully agree with you then you automatically assume they are from hillsong. ”
We’re not often wrong when we take a guess. If we’re not sure – we ask. And we ask because the same unChristian behaviour and bible twisting comes from their lips as we often hear members in the Hillsong/C3 movements.
This was interesting read
Statement from Brian Houston – Senior Pastor, Hillsong Church
Re: recent media comments on homosexuality
I encourage people not to assume a media headline accurately represents what I said at a recent press conference.
Nowhere in my answer did I diminish biblical truth or suggest that I or Hillsong Church supported gay marriage. I challenge people to read what I actually said, rather than what was reported that I said. My personal view on the subject of homosexuality would line up with most traditionally held Christian views. I believe the writings of Paul are clear on this subject.
I was asked a question on how the church can stay relevant in the context of gay marriage being legal in the two states of the USA where we have campuses. My answer was simply an admission of reality – no more and no less. I explained that this struggle for relevance was vexing as we did not want to become ostracized by a world that needs Christ.
I made the point that public statements condemning people will place a barrier between the church and the world (and I note that Jesus came to save and not to condemn), which is why at Hillsong, we don’t want to reduce the real issues in people’s lives to a sound bite.
Did you notice this sentence Paul? It contradicts the substance of Hillsong’s Statement of Beliefs you posted. Actions speak louder than words.
“….I explained that this struggle for relevance was vexing as we did not want to become ostracized by a world that needs Christ.” Where in the bible does it state that relevance to* the world* is such an important matter that the church should do/say anything to not be ostracized by *the world*?
Several quick examples:
* “We believe that the Bible is God’s Word” – why is Houston fearful to clearly proclaim the Bible’s teachings IN CONTEXT (not isolated proof-texts) e.g. against homosexuality then?
* “We believe that in order to receive forgiveness and the ‘new birth’ we must repent of our sins, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and submit to His will for our lives.” – Hillsong has repeatedly been shown to say anything BUT sin. Poor choices, negative attitudes etc. are not adequate synonyms for sin.
* “We believe in one eternal God….. He exists in three Persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.” – Houston is unable to defend that doctrine. Did you know about His ignorance about the modalism heresy? A Christian leader of a massive international church doesn’t even know basic theology?!
http://pulpitandpen.org/2014/09/18/pp-transcript-brian-houston-asks-if-modalism-is-a-made-up-word/
“We believe in one eternal God….. He exists in three Persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.”
AND…. then why did Brian Houston invite TD Jakes to Hillsong Conference in 2007, well before TD Jakes ever questioned his modalism, without any qualms towards TD Jakes appearing on Hillsong’s stage? Did Brian Houston ever give any disclaimers?? NO!!
Best NOT to bring up “oneness pentecostalism” before/during/after those conferences Brian Houston, nor bring up anything else, that may raise doubts about any of those false teachers on your false stage about their false doctrines…
BECAUSE you need the biggest/brightest names at your conferences, to make you the most $$$ !
And Brian Houston continues to have T.D.Jakes photo image highlighted as a header on his twitter stream to this day. But of course the word “modalist” isn’t in Brian’s dictionary.
Yet over half the Body of Christ does not notice this, nor care, including “Paul.”
There is a battle raging for truth, more than ever before, and over half our army has not even shown up yet, nor do they even care. Yet it could not be any more obvious. .
It can be argued that “Tolerance” in modern society is really indifference in disguise. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/tolerance.html
Readers guilty of indifference/ apathy towards true BIBLICAL teachings disguised as “loving your neighbour”…. you may fool less discerning Christians, but are you fooling God?
The Trinity doctrine is an essential doctrine, not a minor issue. How on earth can genuine Christians who are also Hillsong attendees/ viewers tolerate Houston’s camaraderie with a anti-Trinity heretic?
“Readers guilty of indifference/ apathy towards true BIBLICAL teachings disguised as loving your neighbour”
Funny you mentioned “apathy”, because I almost posted that same word too and I was thinking it…. But I like your angle on it, you are right, their “apathy” has been disguised as “loving thy neighbor” and “unity unity unity” at ALL costs, regardless of the consequences. Even if people are being spoon-fed false gospels. Who cares?? “UNITY for the sake of unity. Long live the Pope!”
The word “trinity” doesn’t appear in the Bible; rather, it is a theological label meant to summarize the passages of the Bible, which teach that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each fully God. This labeling is similar to other doctrines such as “communion,” “incarnation,” “free will,” “rapture,” and “advent” – where the word doesn’t appear in the Bible.
The early church father Tertullian (c. 155-230), who wrote in Latin, is believed to have first used the term trinity to describe the God of the Bible.
God and Jesus being one can be seen in john chapter 1
John chapter 1; 1-14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Now as for the holy spirit the scripture speaks repeatedly of the Holy Spirit, known also as the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Jesus Christ. Scripture indicates that the Holy Spirit is of the same essence as the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit is ascribed with the attributes of God, is equated with God and does work that only God does.
“[Brian Houston] explained that this struggle for relevance was vexing as [hillsong] did not want to become ostracised by a world that needs Christ.”
There you have it: Brian Houston is worried only about what people think. Obviously he has never read that the fear of men is a snare – once again his ignorance has been put on public display.
“[Brian Houston’s] answer was simply an admission of reality – no more and no less.”
Yes indeed: Brian has come right out and admitted that he is nothing but a man-pleaser whose desire is to avoid being “ostracised”. What a shame that Brian doesn’t know that friendship with the world is enmity with God. (He really should dust off that Bible of his – assuming he even owns one, that is).
What I believe…
1. Jesus is the only basis for salvation…. JOHN 14:6… Eph. 2:8-9
2. Baptism is not a requirement for salvation but is a public declaration and symbolism of us Christians being born again.
3. Worship is important.
a. We are victorious. So we sing with a JOYFUL NOISE. Psalm 100:1
i. We use drums, guitars and other instruments to worship God. Psalm 150
b. We love solemnity also.
ii. We sing also hymnal songs.
c. Our Worship to God has victorious songs (lively) and hymnal songs (solemn).
4. At all cost I will preach the gospel of Christ…
5. I believe that the Holy Spirit has His gifts given to us up to this very present day.
…. the gifts of the Holy Spirit will not vanish… until the 2nd Coming of Christ for they are already fulfilled and will receive completion on that day.
-speaking in tongues and etc.
6. Idolatry does not please God.
.
-Our church sings hillsong music… we analyze them if they really do glorify God.
-Christian Rock Music is not ungodly. One common mistake people make is that they associate Secular Rock Music with CHRISTian Rock Music… for me it’s just like a worldly person being delivered from sin by Jesus and is now called Christian because Christ is now his center.
-There are different categories of CCM
—> For Praise and worship
—> For Testimony
—> For attraction with no compromise
If a CCM song or band does not fall on these categories I would not call it Christian…
.
I Just stated what I believe…. If there is something wrong with my statements please try correcting me. I accept correction if it is biblical but I will also stand with what I believe in.
.
Additional comment about Hillsong Church… A really big church would really encounter great problems and many comments. They can be associated with problems that are really not their fault… For example our church experienced in the past that there are people using the name of our church for their own agenda sharing unbiblical beliefs and doing wrong stuffs.
.
All forms of music can be used as a tool to reach non Christians but even some Christian rock I find very questionable.
Hi Luminex, if it was people on “the fringe” of Hillsong who were responsible for Hillsong’s unique problems then you would be making a good point.
However Hillsong’s problems start at the top. The leaders are the ones doing the “preaching”, not the followers. Followers follow their leader/s’ example. Compare what Hillsong proclaims with what the apostles did e.g. Peter, note verses 14-41. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+2&version=KJV
Did Peter give funny anecdotes, a personal testimony, pep-talks, and do a “your life will be so great if you accept Jesus [salvation brings fringe benefits in this life too…. GUARANTEED]” sales pitch like Hillsong consistently does?
Did Peter leave out the need for repentance of personal sin (see verse 38) like Houston always does?
There are a load of bad churches around not just Hillsong, c3 and chc. I’m amazed you guys don’t take a look at the Revival Centres of Australia or the brethren church.
We’re getting there. http://www.churchwatchcentral.com
If there is a particular place you want us to look at, give us an email.
The reformed uniting church needs a look at too, I grew up in the Uniting church as a kid.
Yes – we are looking at the state of the Uniting Church as well. Especially in Victoria.
I noticed you had one for good ol Mark Driscoll the well known cussing pastor so they call him. He gets on stage and uses colourful language to get his message across and he thinks that is ok but I would like to know what God has to say on that one. You cannot go compromising just to reach out to non Christians. i do know though that he refused to go along with Rob Bell teachings. Rob Bell is part of the emergent church movement.
To whom it may concern,
I sit here today with a sadness in my heart at a Facebook page dedicated to “watching” other churches, but what it really promotes is bringing down those who love Jesus.
I am just 20 years of age, and have loved Jesus since I was a little girl. I am married to the most wonderful man who found a love for Jesus at 19. I believe that being a “Christian” is to be in a relationship with God, to recognise the sacrifice He made by sending his Son Jesus to the cross for my sins and to devote my life and future to His plans.
My family and I moved from Sydney to an area in the country called Bowral where we started to search for a new church family. We attended the C3 church, which was not for US. Us being the key word. People were SO lovely but we didn’t exactly feel as though it was where God wanted us at the exact time in our lives. So we kept looking.. We started attending the Bowral Church Of Christ which we enjoyed for a few months before seeing the flaws in this Church too. For me it was concerning that there was no youth group or organisation to reach out to the youth in the area and when I attempted to get people on board to start one up, the answer was “we’re too busy”. Devastated, I knew I could not grow in a Church where my gifts and desire to work with troubled youth were unwanted.
Basically, from my experience, no Church is perfect, at all. And either are we. But Jesus adores us, loves us and wants us regardless. How much more does He love those who come together to fellowship in His name. Should I now start up a hate/watch page for that Church? No way! I pray for each and every individual, even those who laughed at my idea, that they would listen to the plans God has for their lives and their Church. How dearly I love them and hope that God blesses them.
For the past 6 months, I have been attending the Hillsong South West Campus, an hours drive from my home, and both my husband and I love it! I can’t remember ever being surrounded by people who’s passion is to move forward with Jesus as their King. I DO believe the Bible is our stronghold and is full of love and life and truth yet I have attended so many Churches where they are so strict on sticking word for word to the Bible, do they not know how the Bible was written? God spoke through men, why do we not believe he can still do this? It hurts me to see “christians” who make it a priority to pull down Churches and to spread evil words about them. Hillsong and C3 are not for everyone. Some like the small quiet churches with Hymns every Sunday and as long as they feel their relationship with God is growing and their understanding clearer after each week then they are in the perfect place! I believe that Church is a home, a safe haven for those with a passion for God to come and enjoy His presence with loved ones. And I have found that at Hillsong. Lets look at ourselves and the churches we attend that affect our lives, rather then bringing down those who are trying their best too.
NO CHURCH IS PERFECT. That would actually be impossible. People make mistakes. And yet God urges us to forgive.
God is so loving and so wonderful. He has put it on my heart to attend Hillsong for this moment in my life and I believe that to be more powerful then what your page may suggest about this Church. I fear for what message you may send out to someone who loves their C3 or Hillsong family and how you want them to watch and snitch and not trust.
It worries me what the negativity of this Facebook page may cause. How Satan works through it.
How would you feel if a Pastor from one of these churches committed suicide over the allegations made against them? These are real people with real feelings. I feel like this page represents teenage school kids who are bullying others. If you have concerns, why not pray? Why not write them a letter? Why do you feel the need to take it into your own physical hands and cause damage?
I wish this page would disappear. My friends who don’t know Jesus yet have asked why “christians” would make a page about hating other “christians” with their main questions being “are they jealous”, “I thought christians loved and encouraged people” and “how could any one create a hate page while trying to promote love”. If you have the answers I would greatly appreciate it.
Until then, I pray for each and every one of you. I do not wish to cast judgement on any of you, for I am far further from perfect then yourselves. And I hope this makes your hearts wonder and rethink WHO you have designed this page for? Yourselves? I pray for clarity in your hearts, and clarity in your “research”. I hope you can learn to love your neighbours and encourage people to fall IN love with Jesus. A lot of your posts have inaccurate “facts” and I ask you to be so careful in your posts as these may have turned already so many people away from Jesus.
Best wishes,
Madeline
Thanks for your feedback Madeline. Unfortunately the bad reports far outweigh the good. Some very good resources available here:
http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/berean-advisory-brian-houston.html
And Madeline, we are aware that many of these churches are autonomous, and that there are good pastors proclaiming the gospel. It’s a rare pastor these days who continues to be “a voice in the wilderness” and not succumb to the seeker-friendly, prosperity gospel-driven rhetoric that drives the mega-church movements.
“As much as we would like to, we must not advertise a wider gate or proclaim a broader road than what God has made. Rather, let’s point people to the narrow gate, but light it up so it may easily be found.” J.D. Hall
Madeline:
>>>>> “I wish this page would disappear.”
So does everyone else who loves Hillsong but does not love truth. (2 Thess 2)
Do you also wish Galatians 2 (Paul’s ruckus over false doctrine) would disappear?
>>>>> “I ask you to be so careful in your posts as these may have turned already so many people away from Jesus.”
Hillsong is leading potential converts to another Jesus. (2 Cor 11:4)
Have you asked Brian Houston “to be so careful” in his teachings?
>>>>> “I believe that being a “Christian” is…. to devote my life and future to His plans.”
You believe in works salvation.
@ Madeline, These churches stand behind the pulpits and bully people. What planet have you been living on? Do you follow the news? You need to educate yourself.
I am not going to fuel your obsessive criticism. I know I am spending eternity in Heaven with Jesus. Maybe I’ll see you there.
We sincerely ask this of you Madeline:
What is the gospel and do you believe it?
If you don’t know and believe the gospel – God says you wont be “spending eternity in Heaven with Jesus”. So we sincerely pray you know it for eternity’s sake.
Bless you Madeline 🙂
Ignore these bitter people. I wonder if Brian Houston was a “false teacher” when his church was 30 people in a school hall, reaching out to people and declaring Jesus as our saviour… or is it just because he’s now pastor of a large church?
My question to “church watcher” would be does Jesus love his church? Those who love Jesus, but who get things wrong, mess up, sin… God commanded me to love my wife as Christ loves the church. I know how much I love my wife but I can’t imagine matching how much Christ loves his people. And that includes Brian Houston, TD Jakes, Steven Furtik… and dare I say Mark Driscoll? Do you believe Jesus loves them? If not, you need to check your doctrine.
“I wonder if Brian Houston was a “false teacher” when his church was 30 people in a school hall”
He wasn’t even biblically qualified to preach. He inherited his father’s success. We know Brian when he was a little kid. The elderly that left were gobsmacked that such an idiot was left to preach to people.
To this day, he still can’t preach and he still can’t lead. He’s got amazing people around him that have supported him, not realising that they are supporting an idiot and a false teacher.
And if the elderly and the young can see through the stupidity of Houston, that says a lot about your discernment.
You ask us a question if Jesus loves his church. We can honestly say that Christ in his love for His church will smite false teachers like Houston on judgment day for causing his people to stumble. We can only pray that Houston repents of his false teachings.
Our love for Christ’s church was to start up this site to warn the church against those who oppose Christ’s church. For someone who tells us they repent daily, one had to wonder why the truth is absent from your heart, mind and soul. Where is your discerment?
The people that Jesus did not tolerate in his earthly ministry were false teachers (read Matthew 23). Jesus will tolerate these deceitful lawless workers on Judgment day for tempting to deceive his elect (Matthew 7). This means right now he does not tolerate Brian Houston, TD Jakes and Steven Furtick.
They are wicked, lawless evil men that have absolutely destroyed people in the name of Jesus and have no remorse for their behaviour.
In regards to Driscoll, the signs have been their from the beginning he loved a false Jesus. We didn’t see them there but other Christians have been warning us about him for years.
We can say he shows the marks of a false teachers who refuses to repent and remains in apostasy to God’s Word.
Jesus bled and died for these men – but these men despise Christ to the very core. If they knew Jesus, they would repent of their lies, crimes and the people they have destroyed.
Sounds like you need to repent of idolatry Steve. Who are you to elevate your love of men above your love for God.
Repent and accept Christ as your Lord and not these lawless men who you exalt.
Please explain to me who this “false” Jesus is? It’s just assumption after assumption with you. Did I elevate love for man over my love for God? You’ve known of my existence for less than an hour yet you have already surmised that I am an idolatrous, unrepentant, misled, unsaved person based on a few sentences. May I do the same for you?
You’re a bitter, manically obsessive, self-righteous, destructive person who doesn’t understand God’s love for all his people. You’ve blinded yourself with your own agenda and your own bitterness. I pray the Holy Spirit sets you free from this. It seems the main focus of your existence is not to serve God and love others, rather serve your hate-filled agenda and love yourself.
Is that fair?
WHAT IF these people really love Jesus? What if you’re wrong? Have you ever considered that? I doubt it.
“Please explain to me who this “false” Jesus is?”
Check our archives. We assume you have a brain and fingers.
“You’re a bitter, manically obsessive, self-righteous, destructive person who doesn’t understand God’s love for all his people.”
We know the gospel that sets people free from sin and death and preach that to people. We preach the truth the Christ died for the unrepentant and hope that frauds like Brian Houston and Mark Driscoll come to saving faith in Christ.
An you are saying we don’t “understand God’s love for all his people?” If you had the love and life of Christ and His people, you would keep Christ’s Word and equip those who are being scammed by false teachers.
“You’ve known of my existence for less than an hour yet you have already surmised that I am an idolatrous”
Out of the overflow of your heart, you mouth has revealed a lot about you in a short amount of time.
“You’re a bitter, manically obsessive, self-righteous, destructive person who doesn’t understand God’s love for all his people.”
Classic cult-talk. You have been told by some fraud that a Christian who believes their bible and follows through with what God commands is a “bitter” person because they dare call the frauds out. Jesus calls the frauds out. His apostles call the frauds out. We call the frauds out.
You don’t.
“I pray the Holy Spirit sets you free from this.”
No you don’t. You’re a liar. You’ve only shown disdain to the Holy Spirit and His Word. The Holy Spirit has set us free from Hillsong and these cults by opening our eyes to the scriptures. The Holy Spirit WROTE the scriptures. And this is the same Holy Spirit teaching that we are giving to you which you are despising.
Woohoo! So I’m a lair too?! Great, another assumption – I can really feel the spirit of love God has placed in your heart overflowing into our conversation. I DO pray the Spirit sets you free. You’re overcome with bitterness and hatred and are showing ZERO love to people who are proclaiming Jesus as Lord! What I do know is that God is full of mercy. I believe that you are saved, as am I, as is Brian Houston. So thank God for his mercy and that we can all meet in heaven and laugh together about how we all thought we knew better than the other.
“We know the gospel that sets people free from sin and death and preach that to people. We preach the truth the Christ died for the unrepentant”
This is no different from the gospel I have heard preached by countless “big name” preachers.
I’d be interested to hear what you consider as some of Hillsong’s strengths or things that the church do that are genuinely helpful to people. Have you posted anything like this previously? (sorry there are so many posts to go through)
This website is horrendous. It does not champion the church as a unified community nor does it champion Jesus. Let’s all make sure our own walks and our own hearts are right, then ask yourselves the question what would Jesus do…? Before posting such dogma. Jesus
Allison: “This website is horrendous” and “ask yourselves the question what would Jesus do…? ”
I might ask the same question allison. Would Jesus Christ hide a paedophile?
“[…] ask yourselves the question what would Jesus do”
Well, I’m certain that Jesus wouldn’t tell me “you need more money”. I’m equally sure that he wouldn’t tell me that “kingdom women love sex”. Nor would he tell me that Christians and muslims worship the same God. And he certainly wouldn’t preach a false gospel, or enrich himself by making merchandise of of the things of God.
What Jesus *will* do is consign frauds and impostors of Brian Houston’s ilk to eternal torment in the lake of fire, along with all his blinded followers who remain dead in their sins, and whose blood will be required at Brian’s hand. It seems that you are quite content to follow Brian on the broad road to everlasting separation from God – perhaps you can “champion the church as a unified community” when you are in Hell, although you will probably have a very hard time making yourself heard above all the screaming…
Brian Houston is not going to hell. It’ll be an awkward meeting in heaven if you bump into him… who on earth are you to determine who God is saving? Pig.
“Brian Houston is not going to hell.”
If anyone preaches another gospel – they are eternally damned. God Himself says this in his Word and that is where Brian is going… unless he repents.
How can you call yourself a Christian and be so ignorant on Christian101 issues?
“Pig.”
It’s hard to call us “pig” when we are the one’s throwing pearls of scripture to you.
Where is your reverence towards Christ? Where is Christ’s truth and wisdom in you? Where is Christ’s light in you? You’ve offered your opinions – not His light. And why do you despise the truth so much Steve? Why defend those who oppose Christ and His teachings?
Allison, Very arrogant and presumptuous of you to sign “Jesus” name to your post.
How often do you sign HIS name to what YOU write?
Has anyone researched Binaural Beats and their relation to Christian music and Hillsong worship ?
I was wondering why at each Hillsong service the Pastors frequently talked about Mc Donalds and use anecdotes about funny stories going there and eating that unhealthy chemical filled rubbish and why Julia A Bell would tell women to go to the mall and shop, The Holy Spirit lead me to a psychological tactic commonly used by big business called ”embedded commands”. I for one once I was made aware have seen this tactic used plenty at Hillsong. They want us working to the bone paying their tithes,doing their works at the church,and being good little consumers,nothing church like or spiritual at all.
Madeline you talk like a typical Hillsong girl,I can tell you a mile off. I used to go there and found myself sounding like them and you,and closing myself off from the real world because I thought I was living.
When I had a mishap and couldnt get to church for a few weeks my eyes started to open and thats when The Holy Spirit began revealing so much to me and why I should stay away. I am glad that mishap happened and know it was from God and am so grateful,if you are not open to the truth you wont be shown Madeleine. i had to be stopped in my tracks before Id take notice.
As for your friends using jealousy as a explanation. That is so far away from reality. Mine and I am sure others agenda on here is to make the truth aware so as to save souls to the real Jesus and heaven. I am not impressed by their money,in fact I have always questioned selling in the church and in my time there i bought minimal merchandise as I felt it was wrong and I made myself buy a few cds just to test if it was The Holy Spirit saying no,and I also fell for peer pressure and wanting to fit in. Embarrassing to admit now. I am more concerned with my eternal life.
Jesus got angry at the money changers in church,he said it was a house of prayer. Matthew 21:12
Thats how we should treat it.
I knew there was a subtle edge at Hillsong and now identify that as bullying and coercion. Come to think of it its scary how much the women leaders are made to dress and act like Bobbie,they get texts on what to wear and how to present themselves.
After the Colour Conference I am totally exhausted from all the brainwashing of the false doctrine and will never step foot back in there ever again.
To clarify, I think my mishap was not from God but he turned it around in my favour. As he always does because he is so GOOD!
Can anyone suggest some good preachers to listen to or watch on You Tube please ? i have stopped watching them all since leaving Hillsong as I was watching pastors from mega churches,and dont think I should continue.
If you don’t mind non-Charismatic sermons etc. that make you have to concentrate I have a few suggestions!
http://www.sermonaudio.com gives lots of video links as well as audio links now.
Google “Grace to You” for John McArthur’s preaching (Baptist).
If you like apologetics/ discernment, Google “fighting for the faith” ( Rosebrough is Lutheran pastor), WorldviewWeekend dot com (their episodes free for several days only).
Does anyone know if these scriptures relate to conferences and religion at mega churches like Hillsong please ?
I hate all your show and pretense-the hypocrisy of your religious festivals and solemn assemblies Amos 5:21
And this one from Isaiah:
Isaiah 1:13-17The Message (MSG)
13-17 “Quit your worship charades.
I can’t stand your trivial religious games:
Monthly conferences, weekly Sabbaths, special meetings—
meetings, meetings, meetings—I can’t stand one more!
Meetings for this, meetings for that. I hate them!
You’ve worn me out!
I’m sick of your religion, religion, religion,
while you go right on sinning.
When you put on your next prayer-performance,
I’ll be looking the other way.
No matter how long or loud or often you pray,
I’ll not be listening.
And do you know why? Because you’ve been tearing
people to pieces, and your hands are bloody.
Go home and wash up.
Clean up your act.
Sweep your lives clean of your evildoings
so I don’t have to look at them any longer.
Say no to wrong.
Learn to do good.
Work for justice.
Help the down-and-out.
Stand up for the homeless.
Go to bat for the defenseless.
About time the Media stop running Hillsong down. Pity the Government does not give them the money the give the Sallies and we would see a complete change. Young ones would be given clean clothes, showers and help in getting jobs and accommodation not encouraging them to keep away from work. There would be hostels etc for homeless that want a place to sleep off the street. If only Canyonleigh the 2 40 hectacre properties in the Southern Highlands given to Fr Chris Riley for the homeless had been given to Brian instead. Fr Riley had no use for the properties and sold them. Donated to him by a nephew of Rupert Murdoch for young homeless people and the media hushed the sale up. Disgusting. They would have been away from drugs, drink and alcohol if they had been well looked after at those two properties but he only saw money.
Sue – we suggest you do more due diligence where Fr Chris Riley is concerned. Some we know are involved with his ministry, and have travelled to East Timor with him, & to places you would never see Brian Houston get his feet dirty.
Give Hillsong more money? Don’t you think the Houston’s property portfolio or Bobbie’s wardrobe are big enough?
“About time the Media stop running Hillsong down.”
Actually, it’s about time that hillsong stopped running God down.
“About time the Media stop running Hillsong down.”
Do you wish the Bible didn’t ‘run down’ the Moneychangers in the Temple?
So let’s say an active church member of Hillsong does all you say, can they still be saved? Will the members of their congregations be saved?
You invented a mythical character. How can a person who believes the bible be an active member in Hillsong?
So no one who attends a Hillsong church anywhere is saved? ALL are doomed to perish?
Nik – once again, those who go to heaven are sinners chosen in Him before the foundation of the earth (Ephesians 1:4). Those who have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:12; Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9). Those who have recognized their need for a Savior and humbly accepted God’s offer of forgiveness. Those who have repented of their old ways of living and set their course to follow Christ (Mark 8:34; John 15:14). Those who have not attempted to earn God’s forgiveness but have served him gladly from grateful hearts (Psalm 100:2). The kind of faith that saves a soul is one that transforms a life (James 2:26; 1 John 3:9-10) and rests fully on the grace of God. It has nothing to do with Hillsong.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“So let’s say an active church member of Hillsong does all you say, can they still be saved?”
Brian Houston is an “active [cult] member of hillsong”, and among those who are au fait regarding the things of God, it is well understood where he will be spending his eternity. So if you really want a definitive answer to your question, why don’t you just faithfully follow Brian and see where you end up?
“So no one who attends a Hillsong church anywhere is saved? ALL are doomed to perish?”
I’m wondering: what, exactly, is driving your keen interest in playing heretical hero hypotheticals?
Nik: a Hillsong member is saved if they believe in Jesus Christ of the BIBLE. I heard an ex-Catholic, now Christian writer/apologist who ministers to Catholics say something like: “Catholics can be Christians DESPITE the church, NOT because of it…. when they learn enough about the truth (of the full Gospel) eventually they leave the church.”
When some Catholics learn about what the bible says (and what the Catholic church adds via religious traditions, what it subtracts from the Gospel and/or distorts) they have to make a decision whether they’ll leave the church or not. Hillsong followers are the same. They can be Christians if along the way they have learned enough about what Jesus Christ did for them through His death on the cross, His victory over sin and death proved via resurrection, and how faith in Jesus Christ is needed for salvation.
A major problem is that many Hillsongers don’t even reach that point because Hillsong church’s teachings are very shallow and childish. With all the focus on experiences and feelings produced via prolonged worship and music, preaching from the pastor is an afterthought! God gave us a mind for a reason but Hillsong does not feed it. A few vitamin pills (bible verses out-of-context) inserted in buckets of fairy-floss does not equal a Christian message of any nutritional value *at all*.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
A genuine convert to Christ might eventually become dissatisfied and try to find out WHY they don’t “feel fed” when they hear the message from the Hillsong preacher. When they open the bible and read it for themselves *in context* they will start to find out why.
As they grow in knowledge – which will happen IF they read their bible regularly – they will start to realise something is never mentioned by Hillsong – the need for REPENTANCE of personal sin/s. Decent preachers will sometimes preach about sin (and repentance of sin) because the bible teaches about it sometimes.
Hope that helps, courtesy of a recovering ex-Charismatic NON-thinker…. 🙂
So I am to assume my mum who died last year, who spent nearly her whole life serving as a missionary and had been commissioned by a Hillsong church- is not with Jesus? You might call it the truth but it’s a heartless thing to imply. She gave her life to serve the cause of Christ and because she is connected to Hillsong church she isn’t saved? FFS
Very sorry to read of your loss. *hugs from stranger*.
If she was a genuine Christian she will be in Heaven. That includes whatever denomination, whether Catholic, Protestant AND Hillsong. If she believed in Jesus Christ she WAS saved.
John 6:47 [Jesus said] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
“You might call it the truth but it’s a heartless thing to imply.”
Jesus is the truth. If you have a problem with the way things are, you really need to take it up with Him.
“She gave her life […]”
I’m sorry that you have lost her, but you need to understand that the world did not revolve around her any more than it revolves around you. What is salient is the fact that *Jesus* gave *his* life and that we are saved *only* by trusting in his atoning death – not by our own good works, or by paying heed to the empty words of shallow, feel-good, gospel-mangling profiteers such as Brian Houston. This simple fact seems to have entirely escaped you, which would tend to indicate that your mind and spirit are captive to the the hillsong cult.
“FFS”
So now you’re channelling Mark Driscoll. You may not have run your colours up the mast, but they are clearly discernible nonetheless.
I want to thanks the pastor Brian his ministries has help me to knw Jesus. I don’t go to church. But sometimes last year I turned my cable television to channel 344 I saw ur ministration. And it has since then change my live I don’t go to church. What I did is to tune to my cable television every Sunday. Hope to attend ur any event one day.
Did Brian pay millions for all homeless people to be thankful? You should ask him that.
The 2014 annual reports for all the Hillsong group entities are now available on the http://m.acnc.gov.au/ website, including Hillsong Church, Hills Christian Life Centre, Sydney Christian Life Centre, Hillsong Foundation, Church 180, and Garden City Property Trust. The annual report for Leadership Ministries Incorporated is also available.
There is more detail in these reports than there has been in other reports, so Hillsong is being more publicly open about finances it seems. The Hillsong Church report shows that total income was almost $80 million, with total expenses at almost $78.5 million. Some income and expenses in the Hillsong Church and Hillsong Foundation reports is also counted as income and expenses by the other entities – it appears that the Hillsong Church total income is the total income for all of Hillsong.
Executive salaries at Hillsong Church totalled a bit over $1.5 million, and those executives gave back to the church just over $410,000 in tithes, offerings and to the Foundation.
Hillsong Church itself doesn’t own any property, though they pay for the properties the church leases, including Alexandria.
Hills Christian Life Centre owns the property and buildings at Baulkham Hills, the Gold Coast campus, and a property west of Noosa. And presumably owns the new property at Werrington near Penrith.
Sydney Christian Life Centre owns the property and buildings at Waterloo, owned the property at Rosebery, and owns the Melbourne East and West campuses. And presumably owns the new property at Knox City in Melbourne.
Church 180 owns the Newcastle campus, Garden City Property owns the Mt Gravatt property and Hillsong Macarthur Incorporated owns the Campbelltown property.
The Hillsong Foundation raised $12.4 million and from that distributed $11.8 million to foundation projects.
Brian and Bobbie Houston’s LMI had revenue of $669,015 in 2014, and expenses of $580,749. If it were a company subject to taxation by the ATO it would be classed as a small business as income is well under the $2 million per year limit.
This website makes me sick. How unattractive is the church to an outsider when there are entire blogs set up to tear down people who are simply trying to proclaim the name of Jesus? I honestly can’t get my head around it. How can you spend SO much time writing these blogs? It’s completely ridiculous. If you’re looking for the perfect church, you’ll be waiting until we’re with Christ as His spotless bride. Until then, how about you acknowledge that Jesus is being proclaimed, souls are being saved and lives are being transformed by God, through the work that this church does. Maybe you’ve been hurt in the past and I’m sorry but you need to redirect your passions toward glorifying Him. And no, I don’t go to Hillsong – I’m in Scotland where there isn’t one and I attent an AOG church in Aberdeen.
“This website makes me sick.”
Your lukewarmness makes God sick:
“… because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.” Revelations 3:16
Christ is coming for a bride without spot or wrinkle. If your church is playing the harlot, keep going the way you are going. We can’t stop you. All we can do is ask you to repent and turn to Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. God can also forgive you of partaking in the apostasy of others.
And there you have it, I’m lukewarm? Thanks for that. I repent daily of my sins, I live my life as a sacrifice for the one who gave it for me. What do you do? Make assumptions about people and tell them they are going to hell for not fitting into your doctrine? Have you ever been to Hillsong conference? Do you believe that preachers like Joseph Prince and T D Jakes aren’t saved? Don’t they proclaim Jesus as Lord? Don’t they preach the love of God? Yes, Christ is coming for a bride without blemsih – how are you getting on with being completely spotless? Are you Jesus or do you need Jesus? The grace of God is the only way we can possibly come before Him, Christ is spotless and it is through Him we will meet our father. Flee from sin, absolutely. But I flee from it because I love God and need his grace… not because I think I can be sinless.
It’s time to stop letting the evil one lead you in tearing God’s people apart with your ill-informed and closed-minded opinions.
“Do you believe that preachers like Joseph Prince and T D Jakes aren’t saved?”
Do you believe they preach a biblical Jesus that save sinners from their sins and from God’s wrath?
“But I flee from it because I love God and need his grace…”
Jesus said if you love Him you will keep His word. If this is true, why do you stand and defend the unrepentant?
I assume that you are sinless, churchwatcher? Because you love Him, you are completely sinless? And don’t answer it with another question.
“I assume that you are sinless, churchwatcher?”
There is a difference between a person who daily repents of their sins and a false teacher who parades their lies, sins and lawlessness before men.
We are repentant sinners and are prepared to repent of our sins publicly or correct any errors we say against those. We try to be as truthful as possible.
“souls are being saved and lives are being transformed by God, through the work that this church does. ”
Lives transformed? As in Justin Bieber broadcasting full rectal nude photos from Bora-Bora on the internet?
“This website makes me sick.”
Because you are so pious. Those Bora-Bora photos from Pastor Bieber were even more displeasing to the Lord, than this website is to Saint Steve.
“I live my life as a sacrifice for the one who gave it for me. What do you do? Make assumptions about people and tell them they are going to hell for not fitting into your doctrine?”
Correction…. You are worse than pious in your smugness. And you make everyone else sick. You don’t even tell people the truth, you’d rather just watch them go to hell and cheer them on.
“It’s time to stop letting the evil one lead you in tearing God’s people apart with your ill-informed and closed-minded opinions.”
Printing the Royal Commission reports was ‘ill-informed?’
Arguing against gays in the choir is a ‘closed-minded opinion?’
Insisting on the integrity of Scripture is a ‘closed-minded opinion?’
@ Saint Steve, you don’t love truth nor Jesus nor His Bible nor His Bride.
“How can you spend SO much time writing these blogs? It’s completely ridiculous.”
That comment shows how little you are interested in “truth” and “preserving truth.”
Jude 1:3 — “…and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.”
What do you think that little word “contend” means. This isn’t a little argument. There is a war on truth. People are taking sides for and against “truth.”
the Greek: epagonizomai: to contend with or for
to contend (literally, “struggle upon, appropriately”), i.e. with skill and commitment in opposing whatever is not of faith
So we can assume you also support Hillsong in their ongoing endorsement of false teachers such as T.D.Jakes, Joseph Prince, Stephen Furtick, Brian & Jenn Johnson just to name a few? Since when do false teachers proclaim the name of Jesus with any integrity. And we make you sick?
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
We as Christians are commanded by God to discern what is being taught to us and to correct those who are in error.
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 5 As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. (2 Timothy 4:1-5)
10 For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. 11 They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach. 12 One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” 13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth. 15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work. (Titus 1:10-16)
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8-9)
I must ask you, what is the Gospel?
I feel sorry for you people, I will pray for you. I have never read such mean spirited and distorted writing masquerading as ‘facts’.
I believe the devil has your hearts.
God bless you.
“I have never read such mean spirited and distorted writing masquerading as ‘facts’.”
Facts? Like the fact that “You Need More Money”? (Oh, sorry – that “fact” has been “recalled”, hasn’t it?)
“I believe the devil has your hearts.”
You could check with Brian Houston; he could enquire of him on your behalf.
You are no more, and no less entitled to God’s love than any of these “false teachers” you lambaste. What you are doing is far more damaging to the kingdom than anything hillsong is doing.
“You are no more, and no less entitled to God’s love than any of these “false teachers” you lambaste. ”
Love does not rejoice over evil yet these false teachers spread evil with their lips and destroy people with their cunning. Jesus HATED them for this BUT also received any false teacher among them who repented and turned to him for forgiveness.
We are being loving like Christ by calling these frauds out and calling them to repent and put their faith in Jesus. Why are you so offended with Christ, the truth and His gospel?
The only kingdom we are damaging is the kingdom of Babylon. And you seem to hate this Steve.
Answer me this – does God love Brian Houston? Yes or No answer please. Just Yes or No. I’m not talking about WILL He love him if he repents… does God love Brian Houston today?
Yes
or
No
“Answer me this – does God love Brian Houston? Yes or No answer please. Just Yes or No.”
Jesus will say to Brian Houston:
“I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoer!” Matthew 7:23
Does that answer your question? By answering with the Holy Spirit-inspired scriptures, do you believe the Spirit?
Excellent – I will no longer waste my time on this blog. If you believe God does not love all of His people no matter how broken they are, then you do not believe in the God of the Bible. It’s laughable, and I pity you. I pray your heart is softened and you have a revelation of God’s love for all His people.
You have never met Brian Houston, and therefore you CANNOT say that Jesus will turn from him when his time comes. You know nothing of his personal relationship with Christ, regardless of how you judge him based on his public persona.
From the same chapter you quoted – “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
I pray for your soul, I truly do.
“If you believe God does not love all of His people no matter how broken they are, then you do not believe in the God of the Bible.”
And God said “Jacob I loved, Esau I hated.” You just made God out to be a liar Steve. So what god do you believe?
“You have never met Brian Houston,”
That’s funny. God hasn’t either – and he says he doesn’t want to know them. Right there in the bible (Matthew 7).
It’s amazing how many people who defend frauds assume we have never met them in person.
We have personally met Brian in person – he lied to our face.
“If you believe God does not love all of His people no matter how broken they are”
Who ever confirmed that Brian Houston was one of God’s people? Brian Houston evidently is not one of God’s people. Brian Houston shows all signs of being a tare.
“Excellent – I will no longer waste my time on this blog.”
I would heartily recommend that noone waste any more time on you either.
Don’t feel much love from what you write. 😦
It’s sad. Even in judgement, there is a way to speak life, and to bring hope and mostly love. Isn’t that Jesus’ second-most important commandment? And if we don’t have love, we can give the loftiest speeches, and be completely justified within ourselves, but still we will have nothing, and be judged most harshly before the Lord. Not to mention that it is Jesus’ loving-kindness that leads all of us, sinners and saved, to ongoing repentance.
Perhaps it should be considered to take down this website. I see no benefit in it, as for what it is perpetuating, in the spirit and dialogue it is encouraging.
I am praying for you, my brother, my sister. I believe that the Lord loves you, and that you love Him. I pray for wisdom in the future, and for a spirit of love.
In Christ,
Melody
Hi Melody. Love take on many different tones and appearances. Please don’t think for a second we like being strong with certain individuals. It pains us to see so-called confessing Christians harden there heart to Christ and His gospel. These people who viciously defend their idols take advantage of the meek and often trample them to further whatever cause they are trying to establish. The church is in a war right now with false Christians defending false churches – and they hate Jesus and His Word. With one hand in love, we will speak severely. And in the other we will be soft, gentle and understanding to those who are genuinely confused about the state of the church.
We are heavy handed with false Christians by using the Law of God to expose them of their sins. Sadly, they have been deceived and we are trying to bring conviction to them by using God’s law and then lead them back to Christ. You will notice that this is what we were trying to do with Steve. We called him out earlier and later his own words revealed that he does not believe the God of the bible.
It was loving for us to call him out, repent of his lies and idolatry and turn to Jesus. This is what preaching and evangelism used to look like in the public square. You can read the Old Testament prophets to get an idea just how severe their language was to try and convict the hearts of unfaithful Israel. According to God, their severe tone and strong language was loving. You can also see Jesus (who is Love) preaching against the Pharisees and the people of Israel for their sins but also seeking out the lost, meek and broken. He was severe in his preaching and gentle with the broken.
Please understand that behind the scenes of CW, we are ministering to LOTS of broken people.
In our church culture today, we are being told (mainly through the PDL, WOF & HAW cults) that God wants us to be happy; to love someone is to make someone happy. (This is not taught in the bible.) Now it appears the unforgivable sin is akin to those who make people unhappy.
But no where in 1 Corinthians 13 is happiness mentioned. However, we are taught to find joy/contentment in God and His providence.
We will continue to be severe against the false and tender with the broken – using God’s Word as the means to deliver what we are discerning with individuals. It’s not easy running a blog like this. When we first started off we were not aware how disgusting so-called ‘Christians’ were going to be in the name of ‘love’. This is their guise and we cannot afford false Christians to mislead or affect those genuinely looking for truth and love.
And we will make mistakes. And we will apologise. And we will try to fix mistakes. We need to be open to criticism. We will take note of your response and consider (like we usually do) how we can handle this situation better next time.
Regards,
CW
Hi CW,
I appreciate your reply. I can tell that in your tone, you don’t wish to offend me, personally – perhaps you understand that I am not a “threat” to the Church. In this way, I am happy to have an honest dialogue with you, this way iron can sharpen iron; as I know it is your heart to honour God.
I understand what you mean; in the time of the prophets, God used man to speak to his people; an interceder of sorts. And thank God for them, for their words and passion, though sometimes harsh, did indeed reflect the love of Yahweh.
These days, however, do we not have the Holy Spirit? I quote you in saying “we are trying to bring conviction to them by using God’s law and then lead them back to Christ.” But I believe that God, who is a most balanced God of grace and justice (both love and discipline) has now sent us His Spirit, who speaks to us and convicts us. It is the role of brothers and sisters to encourage and call out when needed, in love. But there are some issues that do not require the extra lip service.
Have you contacted the people you criticize on CW directly? Have you confronted them directly? Otherwise, this can be easily seen as a gossip board. And though your heart is to bring people to Christ and “protect” the Church, it is actually causing clear division among his people.
The Bible encourages us to speak words of life, to deal with conflicts internally, and to abstain from causing confusion.
Not to mention that we must remember that our struggle is not against flesh and blood, people or rulers or icons in high power. We must remember that our struggle is against the rulers of the dark world. We need to pray protection over the children of God, whether in humble, backstage position, and we must pray for those who are on the stages, who speak to the nations, who have a heart to bring hope and love and truth – which is essentially the heart of Christ for each of us, as he so beautifully demonstrated on the cross. Our battle is against the devil, against his agents and not against the humans that we often get distracted by. As you put it, humans are humans and we all make mistakes. However to try and control their work is not to trust that God can use anyone, and anything. He has used a donkey after all. And besides, those who seek will find, no matter where they are looking. God will make himself found.
I appreciate the humility in understanding that we all make mistakes; no different from me. As I said, I will continue to pray for your wisdom and for the Lord to continue His work, through His Spirit. Not by might, or by power, but by His Spirit.
Sincerely,
Melody
Pray for our wisdom? Thank you Melody. And we will continue to apply that wisdom using scriptures to “justify” the biblical position we take against false doctrines.
Cheers, Team Churchwatch.
You have said a lot in your reply. We would like to address things you have said. While others can pipe in to address some of your points, this is the one we think is the most important to address.
“Have you contacted the people you criticize on CW directly? Have you confronted them directly?”
Their channels are closed. They are not open for discussion. In fact, we haved learnt it is not safe to even go there. Just look at the people that tried to do the Christian thing. Chew Eng Han of CHC, Kerri Ferguson of C3, Steve West and Tanya Levin of Hillsong. You could even put Barbara Taylor and AHA in their too.
False teachers don’t follow biblical instruction, and we have learnt through other people that this is true.
No sheep is safe meeting with a wolf. In fact, the bible says we should not even fellowship with false teachers.
Oddly enough, Houston made contact with us on our website about his Allah comments. He just tried lying to us. That is unacceptable behaviour on his part.
Thank you for your prayers. It’s not easy to do what we do. We see some pretty demonic activity in this arena. We are grateful that many ChurchWatchers are sharing the load. So all prayers are appreciated.
Ah, CW…
(The Barbara Taylor and AHA comments were a slight bit too much. Sarcasm isn’t a very good humor. In reality, it literally means “tearing of the flesh”. Not pretty.)
Also, if the channels are closed, is it really our responsibility to tear them down? God is in control, more than you can imagine. He is Sovereign, and does not need our protection, does he? Simply our humble service, and our devotion. Some of the most effective people in the Bible are those who kept silent and faithful, waiting on the Lord for redemption. In Proverbs, it speaks of the foolishness of speaking up before the King without been given opportunity to speak. The wise man will wait to be addressed (or for the channel to be “open”) instead of forcing their way through. This way does not open ears, eyes or hearts. This creates a chasm of communication, and Christ is not glorified.
I believe in demonic activity. I’ve been confronted to it, in person. The internet is a very powerful tool for good, or for evil. But still the authority is the Lord’s. We are not the Saviors.
And to accuse someone you clearly don’t like of lying is unfair; anything they would say would be considered by you as a lie. You are not to judge what is true, but trust that the Lord is the fair judge, and everything comes to light one day. And that is not your weight to carry, nor is it your responsibility.
We are mere servants, and the moment we take position of captain, we assume a position which was never intended for us to have.
Good to speak with you.
Melody
Of course God is sovereign, something that those of Arminian persuasion (Brian Houston) find hard to accept. So how do you interpret the scriptures where we are required to “contend for the faith”?
Jude1:3-4 “Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ…”
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“”The Barbara Taylor and AHA comments were a slight bit too much. Sarcasm isn’t a very good humor.”
Sarcasm? We wouldn’t dare be sarcastic over such a sensitive issue. That was not the tone we were aiming for.
“Also, if the channels are closed, is it really our responsibility to tear them down?”
Actually, it both God and the Christians job to expose them. God in the end will tear them down but He does call us to mark them, expose them and bring down their lofty opinions with the Word of God.
“God is in control, more than you can imagine. He is Sovereign, and does not need our protection, does he?”
That is true – but if we love God and neighbour, we will contend for the faith and preach against those who are blaspheming God and hurting our neighbour. That is the Christian thing to do. And this has been done for around 2000 years.
Our site is a bit odd because it’s mission is to tightly monitor these false churches as highlighted in our governing scripture. So occasionally we will throw in some great Chritian resources to lighten the tone of this website.
In fact, we deliberately discourage some Christians coming to our site because we have been concerned for their spiritual well-being. We’ve been pointing them to good Christian resources, churches and ministries that could equip them in other ways. We understand that this site is not for everybody. Our hope is that we can be a resource to people to understand why these movements are not churches but cults. To make such claims, we need to provide with evidence – and this is what we are doing.
“Simply our humble service, and our devotion. Some of the most effective people in the Bible are those who kept silent and faithful, waiting on the Lord for redemption.”
True. They had their part to play as a believer among others. We are playing a role in the body of Christ that is much needed.
“In Proverbs, it speaks of the foolishness of speaking up before the King without been given opportunity to speak. The wise man will wait to be addressed (or for the channel to be “open”) instead of forcing their way through.”
It’s important to remember that a pastor is not a King. Lots of pastors heed the cry of God’s sheep and attend their spiritual needs. However, those we monitor show no sign of being a shepherd but as CEO’s where they treat new members as customers and members as though they are the work force.
“This way does not open ears, eyes or hearts. This creates a chasm of communication, and Christ is not glorified.”
Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. Ears and hearts are opened or closed this way. We trust the Spirit does His job the way He says he does His job.
“But still the authority is the Lord’s. We are not the Saviors.”
Thank you for your concern. We do not see ourselves as saviours but as people who love Christ’s sheep so much that we are prepared to give our time, many and resources to help others.
“And to accuse someone you clearly don’t like of lying is unfair; anything they would say would be considered by you as a lie.”
We don’t hate Steve. We saw him arguing fallaciously, slandering and misleading people and called him on it. He proved he was a liar in his later comments. We called him on it and he did’t care. It’s the equivalent of us calling out a friend who has a gambling problem.
“You are not to judge what is true, but trust that the Lord is the fair judge, and everything comes to light one day. And that is not your weight to carry, nor is it your responsibility.”
God calls us to to test all things, Christ Himself telling us to not judge by mere appearance but to judge correctly.
“We are mere servants, and the moment we take position of captain, we assume a position which was never intended for us to have.”
We are not taking position of captian. Jesus has called his people to judge fairly. And this is what Christianity has done for decades. Sadly, our culture is anti-intellectual and has embraced subjective thought. That means their is no absolute. No right or wrong. And sadly, this has permeated the church. People are offended with the bible and are afraid to judge the way Jesus told us to judge.
This is why Christianity is in trouble and why cult leaders are taking advantage of Christians. Becuase we no longer discern, we don’t know how to stand and defend our faith anymore. Satan has cunningly stripped the believer of Christ’s armour.
What you have told us is not new but we understand your concern and where you are coming from. Is there any specific scripture you want us to meditate on? I personally would love you read to the letter to the Ephesians, specifically Chapter 6. What do you think a Christian should behave and look like with the armour of God?
Melody you said this:
“And to accuse someone you clearly don’t like of lying is unfair; anything they would say would be considered by you as a lie. ”
Are you aware that Brian Houston said that the (in)famous pastor Mark Driscoll was not going to appear at the recent Hillsong conference? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/07/hillsong-church-drops-controversial-us-preacher-mark-driscoll-from-conferences
Instead of the planned live interview a pre-recorded interview between Houston and Driscoll was played before the audience instead. Quote from article: ““It is my hope that Mark and I will be able to speak in person in the coming weeks to discuss some of the issues that have been raised, what – if anything – he has learned, and for me to understand better how he is progressing in both his personal and professional life,” he said.”
Did Houston give any hint that Driscoll interview is going to be played? That move was deceptive. Houston’s promise to the secular media was broken. Driscoll DID appear at the conference after all.
Houston is an expert at lying-by-omission. That is not an insult, that is a statement of fact. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lying_by_omission
“It’s not easy to do what we do. We see some pretty demonic activity in this arena. We are grateful that many ChurchWatchers are sharing the load.”
That would be sharing your paranoia.
Your followers claiming Hillsong has hacked your Facebook account is a laughable suggestion.
“Your followers claiming Hillsong has hacked your Facebook account is a laughable suggestion.”
Not as laughable as Brian Houston’s followers claiming Brian Houston is a ‘pastor.’
Melody are you serious ? You are comparing a Donkey which is an ordinary animal to a Heretic who destroys your soul. How is that comparison possible ?
All week I have been wondering over that scripture about women not teaching in the churches and its women like you who have no idea or even seek to want to have an idea that bring that scripture to life even more and confirm
for me the plain truth of why God had it written.
As an ex member of HS can I suggest you read your bible more and stop going to HS , just stop going and see how you feel in a few weeks or months. You will see a difference and your headspace will clear up and your life will get better. God Bless You.
PS you won’t get any points from Brian for sticking up for him. You are just another cult number to pay for his lavish holidays.
Love Jesus instead. Give him your time.
I don’t go to a Hillsong Church, I go to a baptist church. You don’t know what you are talking about, and you don’t know me.
Thank you for your encouraging insults about me being a woman. Hope you continue to spread this bitterness you feed off of. Thanks for making my day with your pure joy.
I’m done with this stupid website. Stop criticizing everyone and go feed the poor.
“Thank you for your encouraging insults about me being a woman.”
You have misplaced anger. You need to thank Eve then consult the Word of God for a Biblical response toward women teachers.
“You are not to judge what is true”
How do you know what is true, unless you judge it against the Word of God?
“I’m done with this STUPID website.”
A bit of a judgmental attitude there, for someone who claims to dislike judgmentalism.
“Stop criticizing everyone and go feed the poor.”
They weren’t criticizing everyone, they were criticizing you. How often do you go feed the poor?
Maybe this website isn’t so stupid after all. The maintainers and posters appear to be smarter than you.
Hello,
I have no idea if these are trusted sources or if it’s true but it seems to be an eye-opener to me.
http://endtimeheadlines.org/2015/08/does-hillsong-nyc-church-have-an-engaged-openly-homosexual-couple-leading-the-choir/
https://prophecynewsheavensoon.wordpress.com/2015/08/02/does-hillsong-nyc-church-have-an-engaged-openly-homosexual-couple-leading-the-choir/
I hope it’s not true but if in case it is it’s absolutely mind-boggling in my opinion.
There is nothing Christ – like about this website. It is full of ignorant religion. I feel sad for you that you can quote scripture like a rabbi yet you do not know the love of Jesus. Too many people hide behind religion and “christian-ese” when the real issue is that they are yet to deal with their own issues. Their own bitter, angry hearts. Stop hiding!!
Why are comments reviewed??
Can we see some balanced arguments on this site please church watcher? For all I know, all these comments could be written by church watchers mum, dad, uncle and third cousin. This is sloppy journalism – give me something gritty. For all the time and effort you appear to put into this site, the results are as ashamedly poor.
“Can we see some balanced arguments on this site please church watcher?”
No. Because the bible is one sided. It will NEVER endorse the views of the damned.
Thank you for confirming my aforementioned thoughts.
This blog is sloppy, not Christ-like at all. If THIS is what Christianity looks like – I don’t want to be a part of it. I love Jesus, it’s a shame he has to be represented by the likes of theses. (Church Watcher)
“If THIS is what Christianity looks like – I don’t want to be a part of it.”
Then it appears you’re not part of Christianity.
It looks like you don’t have a clue how much the church fought in the New Testament era against factions, false teachers, wolves and new gospels/heresies.
“I love Jesus”
You can’t ‘love Jesus’ while you are hating His Word.
“If THIS is what Christianity looks like – I don’t want to be a part of it.”
AlistarMul, It’s obvious you never wanted a part of Christianity anyway.
I’m pleased to report that I am not a part of what you deem as Christianity church watcher. I only pray you get a real reaction of who Jesus is and His love for you. Seek His face with all your heart.
Love obeys those they love. You have no love for God. You’ve proven you hate him with you heart and mind. Your wickedness and apostasy is evident for all here.
AlisarMul “I love Jesus”.
1. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john+14%3A15%2C+21&version=KJV, https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+john+2%3A15&version=KJV, https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22%3A35-40&version=KJV
Do you/ does Hillsong love the world – YES or NO? Do you/Hillsong keep God’s commandments? Do you/ Hillsong put “love God” or put “love your neighbour” first? Whom did Jesus say to put first?
2. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john+16%3A7-11&version=KJV
If you/ Hillsong has received the Holy Spirit, do you (understand need to) / does Hillsong preach about sin, righteousness and sin (to make people know their sinful condition and why Jesus died for their sins) – YES or NO?
3. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=colossians+1%3A27-29&version=KJV
Do you (understand need to) / does Hillsong warn any Christian about their need to repent + grow in holiness, teach Christians [give information for mind, not manufacturing feelings] so they grow in wisdom, so they mature in Christ (not Hillsong) – YES or NO?
How is asking those serious questions that churches like Hillsong makes sure they DON”T EVER address – and showing VIA EVIDENCE Hillsong is being negligent by seeking to please the unsaved world/ immature, biblically-illiterate Christians BEFORE God – unloving, being trolls* or un-Christ- like ?
* Has Hillsong’s deemed its labelling of bible-believing Christians “intellectual Pharisees” as past its use-by-date and now Hillsongees have adopted term “troll” as directed/ suggested via spiritual hypnosis?
“I feel sad for you that you can quote scripture like a rabbi”
AlistarMul, I feel sad for you that you can’t even quote scripture at all.
Sorry at which point in previous comment did I say that I couldn’t quote scripture. I choose not to hide behind it.
Anyone can copy and paste.
You are all so deluded.
“Anyone can copy and paste.”
Yes, though I work from memory. Furthermore, know-nothings like you might be able to cut-and-paste, but you still will never be able to apply.
“You are all so deluded.”
And you’re judgemental.
Good job little buddy!!
I pity you.
AlistarMul, your feeble attempts to feign ‘nice’ in one post, then rear up your true ugly nature in the next, shows how disingenuous you and your ‘Christianity’ really are.
You’re like all the other typical long-winded Bible-ignorant hillsong ‘apologists’ who come here, and at the end of their hate speeches, laughably say “God Bless.”
While you defend other Bible-ignorants like Brian Houston and hillsong, that shows who is deluded.
Pity all you want, that just reinforces how imagined your definition of what a ‘Christian’ is.
“I’m pleased to report that I am not a part of what you deem as Christianity”
We know, you’re pleased to not follow Christ. because you obviously but also by your own admission live in a state of rebellion toward His Word.
You’re a phony who’s somehow gotten accidentally mixed in with the true Wheat.
ChurchWatch is a website dedicated to warning people of these wolves in sheep’s clothing who use and abuse people for their own selfish gains. It’s absolutely loving of ChurchWatch to expose these frauds who are twisting God’s Word and sending people to Hell.
If this is nothing more than “sloppy journalism,” then how come they cite their sources and give evidence to back up their claims?
“If this is nothing more than “sloppy journalism,” then how come they cite their sources and give evidence to back up their claims?”
This is a very interesting and “relevant” point.
Now I suggest, let us examine the flip side of the equation… How often do ‘Pastors’ Brian C Houston and Bobbie Houston cite sources to back up their claims?
It seems those two often cite their ‘feelings.’ The same thing ‘Ps’ Phil Pringle does when he gives his ‘words received from Heaven.’
‘Feelings’ cannot be used to ‘lead’ a church, ‘instruct’ others, ‘speak for God’, nor ‘interpret’ the Bible.
Jeremiah 17:9 w.r.t. all these ‘feelings’:
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
“For all I know …”
Everything you know could be written on the back of a postage stamp using a pen that’s run out of ink (and you are more intelligent than Brian Houston by a few orders of magnitude).
Sorry who are you? What relevance does your comment have to anything previously mentioned?
AlisarMul “I love Jesus”.
Use biblegateway website if you don’t have own print bible.
1. John 14:15, 21, 1 John 2:15, Matthew 22:35-40
Do you/ does Hillsong love the world – YES or NO? Do you/Hillsong keep God’s commandments? Do you/ Hillsong put “love God” or put “love your neighbour” first? Whom did Jesus say to put first?
2. John 16:7-11
If you/ Hillsong has received the Holy Spirit, do you (understand need to) / does Hillsong preach about sin, righteousness and sin (to make people know their sinful condition and why Jesus died for their sins) – YES or NO?
3. Colossians 1:27-29
Do you (understand need to) / does Hillsong warn any Christian about their need to repent + grow in holiness, teach Christians [give information for mind, not manufacturing feelings] so they grow in wisdom, so they mature in Christ (not Hillsong) – YES or NO?
How is asking those serious questions that churches like Hillsong makes sure they DON”T EVER address – and showing VIA EVIDENCE Hillsong is being negligent by seeking to please the unsaved world/ immature, biblically-illiterate Christians BEFORE God – unloving, being trolls* or un-Christ- like ?
* Has Hillsong’s deemed its labelling of bible-believing Christians “intellectual Pharisees” as past its use-by-date and now Hillsongees have adopted term “troll” as directed/ suggested via spiritual hypnosis?
‘this website … is full of ignorant religion’
Well it certainly is now that ~you’re~ commenting here.
Unless, of course, you know that the leaders of those ‘churches’ never had Jesus in their hearts, in the first place…
The problem Madeline (if you ever come back for another dig,) is that some 50 million people world wide, are influenced by Hill$ong music, conferences and doctrine, and those who come here regularly to defend the Christian faith, feel very strongly that this money making cult deserves to be exposed for what they are.
I am more than happy to be considered an outcast by the rest of backslidden Christendom, as long as I am a part of the faithful remnant in these last days, when deception is abounding, and false prophets are being promoted, while true shepherds and solid Bible teachers are being denounced and sidelined…
If anyone is happy to be a part of the Hill$ong crowd or any similar ‘church’ (after all you have read here or in other places) then I must say that I pity you. Your leaders are taking you along that broad way that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 7:13 to 24 and that can only end up in Hell.
Jesus spoke very clearly in that chapter, stating that it is a ‘straight gate/narrow door’ that leads to life “and few there be that find it”. A very few, by the looks of it… the rest of them are either being subsumed into the latest “false profit” debacle, or are engaging in other ‘New Age’ philosophies and organisations, who are also masquerading as Christian churches…
I think it hilarious that this is a website about how bad Hillsong is and the way they manipulate for money…and yet the website has as its banner a complete ripoff of BH’s book (which I’m guessing would be illegal) (maybe that doesn’t matter to you, no biggie just interesting) and wants us to pay $25 for the book…you guys aren’t serious in your claimed goals…you just want Hillsong’s audience…you do exactly what you claim Hillsong to be doing wrong…once again I say it “Hilarious!!!!”
‘I think it hilarious that this is a website about how bad Hillsong is and the way they manipulate for money…and yet the website has as its banner a complete ripoff of BH’s book (which I’m guessing would be illegal) (maybe that doesn’t matter to you, no biggie just interesting) and wants us to pay $25 for the book’
Actually, what’s hilarious is the fact that hillsong’s would be defenders who have been flocking here to comment are invariably as thick as bricks. It seems that the only people that ‘pastor’ Brian can motivate are those who have absolutely nothing between their ears, and I’m really surprised that he allows them to speak here on his behalf, because they make him and his cult look really, really bad (maybe Brian likes to surround himself with clueless dolts because it makes him look clever by comparison).
Really!!!! All you can do is insult and name call. Wow. Very educational
Sent from my iPhone
>
“Really!!!! All you can do is insult and name call.”
So would you prefer to see a masterful display that serves as an object lesson in apologetics and that showcases my impeccable theological credentials? Are you seeking to understand the extent of my erudition, and to observe the consequent aplomb with which I can methodically take apart such imbeciles as yourself without so much as raising a sweat? Would you be embarrassed to see a comment that shows up, in stark relief, exactly how vacuous you are, and the extent to which your own offerings are completely lacking in substance and altogether devoid of anything that is the least bit compelling?
Because I can do all that and more, but in your case there is really no need, since your comments, risible as they are, really do speak for themselves. So I’m sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, Mark, but a lightweight loser of your ilk simply isn’t worth the effort. Perhaps you should go away and try somewhere else, because I can assure you that you aren’t going to get any mileage here.
Please don’t bother replying from your “Iphony”, because you’ve already brought more than your fair share of tedium to the table.
“once again I say it Hilarious!!!!”
Does your wild imagination also think that Frank Houston’s victims find how Brian Houston has treated them so ‘Hilarious!!!!’?
What different action would you have taken if you were Brian in regard to his Father.??
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Hi Mark – it was incumbent on Brian Houston to report his father to police and child protection agencies at that time. It appears that there was a complete cover up at that time, which may lead to some serious repercussions for him at some future date.
Yes, Frank Houston was removed from the ministry and banned from every pulpit both here and in NZ, but the consequences for Brian’s inactions/omissions at that time, are still echoing down the tunnel of time…
By the way folks, this is Mark Elmindorp’s Albany Hills church website (assuming that some troll hasn’t “borrowed his name” and ‘done a number’on him):
http://www.ahcc.org.au/#!about/c240r
…and Mark, I’m not doing this to ‘out’ you or anything, but we get so many trouble making trolls on this site, that when someone decides to use their real name, it’s important to confirm that, so that there are no misunderstandings later on. I’m not accusing you of ‘guilt by association’ either…
Feel free to confirm or deny your bona fides…
Churchwatcher… I think it’s time we constructed that small space off to one side called “the goat’s pen” for comments like those above…
Really more name calling. Surely you have more than that
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“Really more name calling. Surely you have more than that”
What do you have Mark? What a surprise, No scriptures.
What would you like scriptures on.?
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Hi folks – I can’t remember which thread ‘therealpdscrivener’ posted his nonsense on recently, but here’s a link to his so called ‘blog’ – what a waste of internet space…
https://therealpdscrivener.wordpress.com/
That Scrivener chap ran with his tail between his legs after a couple posts since it was becoming more and more apparent his commute Bible-reading & speaking in tongues hadn’t laid quite the foundation he thought he had before he stopped by.
http://www.kyrkor.be/Tokyo-Lifehouse-Church-Japan.htm
It’s hard to tell when comments have been received again.
Through this website Brian Houston, Bobbie Houston and Hillsong Church are being attacked. The content of this website dishonors, contradicts and disobeys the word of God as in Ephesians 6:12 we are taught that our struggle is not against people but against principalities and powers.
We are called to love our enemies. Scripture says:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matthew 5:43-48.
This website is not of God. I pray that those of you who love the Lord would seek Him first rather than listen to the deceit of this website.
This website has no power anyway.
“The content of this website dishonors, contradicts and disobeys the word of God as in Ephesians 6:12 we are taught that our struggle is not against people but against principalities and powers.”
Too bad you weren’t around to correct Paul before he went and rebuked Peter to his face.
“Through this website Brian Houston, Bobbie Houston and Hillsong Church are being attacked.”
Why are you more concerned about Brian Houston’s reputation, than that of Jesus and the Gospel which are being attacked?
“This website has no power anyway.”
No, but the truth printed in it does.
“This website has no power anyway.”
‘No, but the truth printed in it does.’
Best come-back ever.
Bryce, SO you dispute all the articles here that also appear in the official mainstream news in multiple countries? Do you think everyone here and in the news is lying to you?
“Bryce, SO you dispute all the articles here that also appear in the official mainstream news in multiple countries? Do you think everyone here and in the news is lying to you?”
No, I agree that all the articles here and in the media are quite correct, and that it is Brian Houston who is lying on behalf of his master, who is the father of lies. Yours was an excellent come-back, because, as you so astutely observe, hillsong’s problem is not with this web site per se, but with having to confront truth in general. hillsong hates this web site for the simple reason that the darkness hates the light.
Brian Houston is a false teacher, and unless he repents he will be spending his eternity apart from God, along with all who have followed him and who have believed the false gospel that he preaches.
Thumbs up Bryce you are right on bro!
Hillsong and Brian can lie all they want, but no matter how hard they try they’ll never ever ever be able to quench the truth. Whoever chooses to peek behind their little curtain will never be fooled.
“…we are taught that our struggle is not against people but against principalities and powers.”
False apostles/ teachers are Satan’s pawns in a spiritual battle. Therefore these “pawns” masquerading as men of God need to be exposed.
2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
“We are called to love our enemies.”
Love according to the world’s standards or God’s?
Proverbs 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
True Christians want fellow Christians to know the truth and (as a result) repent of their sins – including false teachers. How will that occur if people worry more about currently misled people’s feelings than their eternal destiny?
“This website has no power anyway.”
This website’s material has been quoted/ examined carefully by international discernment radio shows and websites. Websites of this variety have far more impact than uninformed people realise.
But even if by Hillsongee’s (like yourself) standards there appears to be little impact you need to remember that God’s sheep always respond to the truth eventually. (In this case leave Hillsong and seek bible-believing churches). Satan’s goats will reject the truth and remain in counterfeit churches to keep their ears tickled and senses stimulated.
John 10:4 And when he [the good shepherd] putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
“Could you please point us to where the Hillsong songs are in the LDS hymnal?”
@newtaste only quotes Brian Houston, Bobbie Houston, Esther Houston, and other Hillsong spiritual cadavers… yet he calls @Churchwatcher who often quotes the Bible, a ‘cult.’
Who are you kidding @newtaste? All you can quote is your doofball Hillsong leadership, and you refer to @Churchwatcher as a cult? You are out of it.
Buddy, I am going to pray for you. I pray that God will not judge you harshly for completing the devils work.
“Buddy, I am going to pray for you. I pray that God will not judge you harshly for completing the devils work.”
Why, Lizzie? Thanks for this so called generous offer, but Hellsong is the devil’s work. God is going to judge Hellsong for Hellsong’s sin, not me. You in your misplaced prayers need to pray for Hellsong instead, especially their unsaved leadership such as Brian Houston who obviously does not know the Lord. Thank you.
A lot of people read the Bible to answer the question, “What should I do?” Their primary focus in their relationship with God is on behavior. But while doing the right things is important, it isn’t primary. The main purpose of any genuine relationship of love and friendship is not doing but knowing. Actions follow from intimacy, not vice versa.
We see that in Jesus’ words, if we look closely enough. First, He does nothing by Himself. That means His intimacy with the Father has developed before His actions. He has to know the Father doing – which means before any behavioral response, He sees. He knows and sees, then He does. That is how relationships work.
Jesus never said. “I figure out what to do by reading Scripture and obeying what it says.” His “doing” is relational from the beginning to end. Does Scripture play a part in that? Absolutely. But the issue on Jesus’ heart isn’t deciphering what the Word instructs; it’s knowing the One who spoke the Word to begin with.
What question is on your heart as you read the bible?
What are you trying to find out?
Your answer makes a huge difference not only in how you live your life but also in how well you get to know God. Many of us default to “instruction mode” when we read Scripture because we don’t have the interest or the know-how to pursue real intimacy with Him. We don’t see what He’s doing, so we dig out the principles in the Word and rely on them as His instructions. That’s religion , not relationship, and God wants to get much more personal that that.
I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself. He does only what he sees the Father doing. Whatever the Father does, the Son also does. JOHN 5:19
“Many of us default to “instruction mode” when we read Scripture because we don’t have the interest or the know-how to pursue real intimacy with Him.”
No. It’s because we don’t put our faith in our emotions like you do. We put our faith in what is stated in the Word of God.
“We don’t see what He’s doing, so we dig out the principles in the Word and rely on them as His instructions. That’s religion , not relationship, and God wants to get much more personal that that.”
So now God has stopped us from relying on His Word. Now we’re operating in feeling-mode, eh?
“I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself. He does only what he sees the Father doing. Whatever the Father does, the Son also does. JOHN 5:19”
This verse has nothing to do with your arguments. In fact, your entire post is mangled up in a complete lack of coherency.
I cannot believe some of the comments I am reading here. Not one of the ChurchWatch people or their supporters have been loving, gracious or even polite in their responses to people who disagree with them.
You are not representing the Jesus of the bible. You do remind me of the Pharisees of the bible, however. In fact Westboro Baptist church comes to mind as I’m reading these aggressive comments. My heart is breaking at how “Christians” can respond so hatefully, so maliciously, to those who do not share their beliefs. There is not one shred of edification in this entire website, let alone in communicating to those in the comment section who you see as fallen.
While I do respect your passion for protecting and championing what you believe to be the truth, I do not respect your methods or your attitude. As a bible believing Christ follower I pray that The Holy Spirit will convict you all of your misguided attempts at spreading the Gospel. In love, I leave you with some bible verses to meditate on:
“Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?” James 4:11-12
“Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.” Romans 14:4
“And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be KIND to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Opponents must be GENTLY instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.” 2 Timothy 2:24-26
“Do everything in love.” 1 Corinthians 16:14
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
“In fact Westboro Baptist church comes to mind as I’m reading these aggressive comments.”
Oh please, no more ignorant “Westboro Baptist” comments here. Westboro are not Christians, research them, they are run by one extended family clan, do not know the Bible, and are fanatical religious bigots. Contrary to Westboro, the people here do study the Bible intensely, know the Gospel, publish FACTS, attempt to be fair, and do encourage repentance. If you can’t see the difference, then something is wrong on your part!
“I cannot believe some of the comments I am reading here.”
Then you believe what Brian Houston says, is that correct?
Evidently, you prefer Brian Houston TELLING LIES WITH A SMILE, more than anyone else TELLING THE TRUTH IN ANY MANNER.
So, have you similarly quoted some verses directly to Brian Houston and Hillsong “church”, explaining how much THEIR LIES are an affront towards the Lord, the Bible and the Body of Christ?
If not, unless you want to come off as a big hypocrite, you need to go talk to them too. And you need to go talk to the Royal Commission and tell them they need to get their story straight too.
PS: Did you read any of the articles before posting here? Please name some FACTS printed that you dispute.
“As a bible believing Christ follower I pray that The Holy Spirit will convict you all of your misguided attempts at spreading the Gospel.”
LP, Would you say the same words to the apostles? Do you question their leading of the Holy Spirit as well? The Holy Spirit is a Spirit of Truth (John 16:13) Love that omits portions of the truth that may offend unrepentant sinners is not love, it is DECEPTION in disguise.
So many Hillsongees seem to have fallen for their loophole “Spirit-filled” Christians who love others only say “loving” words *translation* positive sounding, PLEASANT, pleasing to the sinful flesh words, NEVER the sometimes negative sounding, sometimes painful truth.
Have you ever read the apostles’ descriptions of false teachers and how to deal with them? e.g. Book of Jude. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jude&version=KJV
Time for you to set your priorities in God’s order. Please take time to search these passages I have given; don’t reflexively dismiss them as so many other Hillsong supporters have done.
Would you also rebuke the apostle Paul for naming individuals (e.g. 2 Timothy 1:15) and false teachers? (2 Timothy 2:16-18)
How about the apostle John? (3 John 1:9-10) All of 1 John explains how to tell difference between true doctrine and false doctrine, true Christians and false Christians.
You NEED to read AND reflect upon examples of passages of the bible that Hillsong never would preach. 2 Timothy 4:2-4
The Gospel is the foundations of the Christian faith, not the WHOLE Christian faith in total. Sound doctrine INCLUDES teaching of the rebuking sins, exposing false teachers, commands to grow in holiness and knowledge et.al. Can Christians mature with no discernment, no knowledge of difference between good and evil (Hebrews 5:13-14)?
Can Christians * like yourself* grow in maturity if milk is only ever given e.g. basics of Gospel with no discussion of WHY that has such significance and how to detect “Christians” who depart from the truth e.g. false teachers?
Have you ever read any basic apologetics and discernment websites dealing with false doctrines in general *at all*? If you read enough you’ll start to understand why the faith is defended here so vigorously, as on many other different websites on defending on the truth faith and exposing all different kinds of false doctrines/ teachers. http://www.apologeticsindex.org/
thinker
Time and time again people come here and say:
“Not one of the ChurchWatch people or their supporters have been loving, gracious or even polite in their responses to people who disagree with them”
or words to a similar effect.
Time and time again the Churchwatcher crew ‘justify’ their behavior with – “Well the bible says that love that omits portions of the truth that may offend unrepentant sinners is not love”
or
Brian Houston’s behavior was blah blah blah…..
or words to a similar effect.
We are not talking about your passion to get the bible correct. We are talking about your (and other Churchwatcher supporters) poor behavior, name calling, slander, comments that are clearly not from God.
Just about every page has hypocritical and personal attacks on people. Let me guess – you won’t stop it because you believe it is the right thing to do.
Please show the rest of us the bible verse that states to make fun of, pick on, degrade and stupefy other humans beings???????
The comments are not Christian by any stretch of the imagination. They are not justified to get a reaction from what you believe are ‘weak, luke warm Christians’.
If you think they are – you are being deceived yourself.
“We are not talking about your passion to get the bible correct. We are talking about your (and other Churchwatcher supporters) poor behavior, name calling, slander, comments that are clearly not from God.”
Fred, Jesus said to Peter: “Get thee behind me, Satan.”
How rude was that! What was He thinking? Where were His manners?
Fred, From the time I decided to comment on Churchwatchers’ blogs I have done my best to be courteous at all times to any contributor. I refuse to accept responsibility (as you have attempted to make me do so) for what Churchwatchers permit to be shown on *their* blog, the blog articles they have created or any other Christians’ replies to contributors.
Several times I have corrected particularly vicious replies but you would only know that if you read every single blog entry on their four separate blog websites and F3-ed the name “thinker”. They have become huge websites after all.
As an ex-Catholic I immediately recognized YOUR distraction tactic disguised as a guilt trip. My showing a Hillsongee that their position is incorrect via bible verses and highly respected Christian apologetics sources is not personal abuse.
You’ve got the ability to communicate your position clearly. How about YOU also aim to set a good example to other Hillsong supporters AND nasty critics* by defending Hillsong via the bible instead of distraction tactics?
*Note: no air quotes. Genuinely nasty critics (on both sides of the fence) will be held accountable to God for their OWN words on Judgement Day.
People are being lied to by Brian Houston. And there is the even bigger issue of people’s salvation being at stake from Brian Houston’s false gospel, and you’re worried about some comments being a bit harsh? Really?
Fair enough, you haven’t been able to show me the bible verses where God or Jesus instructs us to “make fun of, pick on, degrade and stupefy other humans beings.”
I rest my case.
Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly lest he be wise in his own conceit.
Those words therefore could be interpreted as being used to “make fun of, degrade and stupify other human beings” by outsiders who do not understand the speaker/ typer’s motives.
See Jesus’ harsh words to Pharisees. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+23&version=KJV
P.S. just noticed name “Fred” while reading recent comments https://hillsongchurchwatch.com/2015/12/17/hillsong-from-silent-night-to-sordid-night/#comment-26469
“You are dribbling Jacky Jacky. Do you need a tissue?”
“Jacky Jacky not only are you rude, but your mother also dresses you funny.”
“Get a reality check Jacky Jacky and go and share your faith with some gay people at your local gay nightclub instead of being a self righteous keyboard warrior dribbling through your cocopops.”
Was that entry from yourself or from a troll who somehow got hold of your email address and password?
“Fair enough, you haven’t been able to show me the bible verses where God or Jesus instructs us to make fun of, pick on, degrade and stupefy other humans beings.
I rest my case.”
Bub, as long as people are following Brian Houston into hell you have no case.
And when people get there I bet they’ll thank you for playing Internet Comment Police.
What happened to Calvary Miami Hillsong church with Pedro Garcia? Just disappeared I don’t understand
It’s called http://calvaryconnect.com/
Hi! I just found this website and it totally sucks!!! I mean, I’m a new believer in Christ and I knew that there will be fellowship with other Christians. But, all I read is like a war between the same forces. Maybe I should drop off somewhere I can be motivated into growing in Christ. Not sharing this site…
Thanks for commenting Jong. You’re a new believer in Christ? That’s fantastic! But come back after a few years of solid bible study under your belt and then let us know what you think.
Studying to recognize the counterfeit teaching that abounds today, a knowledge of the true gospel will help you identify the false gospel. We pray that’s how it is for you.
Cheers, Team Churchwatch.
“But, all I read is like a war between the same forces.”
If there is “like a war” going on, at least how many sides does it take to wage a war? Like at least two.
One must ask what criteria did you use to judge that this website is the one on the wrong side of this war?
(For instance… Does Hillsong worship music make you feel ‘closer to God?’)
On the surface websites like this one appear unloving to new Christians. Part of maturing in your Christian faith is learning the difference between good and evil in God’s eyes, not people’s opinions.
It’s important to get the foundations of your faith exactly right from the beginning. Build your faith on Jesus (the rock), not a church/ preacher/ personal feelings etc. (See Matthew 7:24-27. Use Biblegateway website if you don’t have a print bible handy.)
http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php/2016/05/05/the-wrath-of-god-in-redemption-and-evangelism/
To paraphrase:
Q: imagine a Hillsong preacher in New York on 10th September 2001 knowing people he was about to speak to worked in the New York Twin Towers AND were going to die the next day (but was not permitted to tell them of their impending doom)…..
…would he need to change his Hillsong message (in ANY way – near enough is NOT good enough) to ensure people who accepted his Hillsong message were going to be saved via faith in Jesus Christ – YES or NO?
A: You need to carefully compare Hillsong’s “personal decision for Jesus will bring blessings/ purpose for your life – GUARANTEED” message with the bible’s Gospel e.g. apostle Peter’s message to Jews (Acts 2:14-41) to answer that question correctly.
“Hi! I just found this website […]”
You “just found it”, eh? What a coincidence. How exactly did you stumble across this site then?
“I mean, I’m a new believer in Christ […]”
I assume that you mean that you are believer in the hillsong cult and a faithful stooge for Brian “You Need More Money” Houston.
“[…] and I knew that there will be fellowship […]”
No you didn’t. You know nothing at all.
“[…] with other Christians.”
They would only be “other Christians” if you yourself were a Christian, which you are not.
“But, all I read is like a war between the same forces.”
You should do well at hillsong, as it appears that your comprehension skills are on a par with those of your master Brian Houston.
“Maybe I should drop off somewhere I can be motivated into growing in Christ.”
You mean where you can be motivated to hand over your money to the hillsong cult.
“Not sharing this site…”
Perhaps you should just refrain from sharing your thoughts.
I’m thanking God for placing me in the right church in Indonesia, where living by righteousness is a must as a disciple of God. Love to God and towards another are our compassion. My paster one day preached about the words of God, he told us not to judge anyone even you barely can see that person’s life and how the way he live is out of God’s way, especially when he/she uses his Ministry as a place to do “crimes” in God’s sight. One thing we should know, no matter how bad that person, as long as he says the words of God or even teaches the congregation about that, don’t judge him/her. Words of God doesn’t need us to be protected, even extremely if that Words come out from a “pig” itself, that still Words of God. It is sacral and full of power.
And for the man who use the anointing of God for his/her own interest, The Lord Himself will show His justice to that man. Could be now in the present or could be in the end of his life.
As a people who just not believe in God but live in God, don’t think bad or judge your Pastors’ life. Growing in God, looking up to your God’s present.. that’s enough.
You need to find a new church. A church with a pastor who rightly divides God’s Word. A pastor and a church willing to protect the sheep entrusted to their care.
Cheers, Team Churchwatch.
“And for the man who use the anointing of God for his/her own interest, The Lord Himself will show His justice to that man”
Lita, what about Romans 16:17 ?
“I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.”
I bet your pastor never taught on that verse has he .
Stanley is correct to acknowledge that that there are two covenants or testaments. God had a need to establish a New Testament. the Old was inadequate. However, any idea of the Old Testament that is explicitly taught in the New Testament must be considered as Gospel. For example, the idea of animal sacrifices is not taught in the New Testament, hence we must not consider it as an essential practice in the New. However, the idea of love of God and neighbor is taught in the Old Testament and explicitly taught in the New. So, look at what is generic to each testament and remember that God had to make a new testament because the old was not good enough. it was foundational.
Isn’t it weird that you bite yourself into Hillsong as a dog that doesn’t want to let go while I see churches which are worse? Churches in the USA that no longer want to pray for israel or jerusalem or even mention the name Israel. Churches that accept gay marriage, euthanasia, abortion, living together unmarried, let complete churches “fall” as sign of the Spirit, churches that say you get blessed more if you give more, churches that say that the Old testament is out of date, etc etc. Conclusion: show me one church that is perfect and I rest my case. You can’t< not one church is perfect since you and I are not perfect. And i agree with some others here: I taste more hate on this page than true concern…..
While I agree with many of your points Hans, we can’t really call “Hillsong Church” a church (Ecclesia) any more. It is a plainly a corporation, more worldly than built according to scripture and the direction of the Apostles. While there are likely true saints among them, Christ will call them out when He comes as many of us will be removed at His will. Yours in Christ.
Nothing you have said justifies Hillsong’s lewd behavior (which I do not find in other churches, only Hillsong and similar such ‘churches’).
“Isn’t it weird that you bite yourself into Hillsong as a dog that doesn’t want to let go while I see churches which are worse?”
This is probably because they are influenced by Hillsong.
“show me one church that is perfect and I rest my case.”
Show us you know the scriptures and we will show everyone that biblically illiterate people who know very little about God (who call themselves disciples of Jesus), are the type of people that only defend Hillsong.
“Isn’t it weird that you bite yourself into Hillsong as a dog that doesn’t want to let go while I see churches which are worse?”
No, what’s weird is that you don’t go make your own websites about the “worse churches” then, rather than complaining here…. “Hans”.
PS — if you can judge who is a “worse church” Hans, then why can’t Churchwatch also judge who is a bad church? Are you a better judge Hans?
Brian Houstons is not pastor he’s businessmen.
I was looking for a hillsong sermon podcast and found this website, thanks for the laughs, most amusing. Enjoy the witchhunt.
Glad you’re laughing. It’s amazing what the clowns say to the goats these days.
“thanks for the laughs, most amusing.”
Not nearly as amusing as all Brian & Bobbie Houston’s worthless books they’ve written.
“YOU NEED MORE MONEY!!!”
“Kingdom Women Love Sex!”
Both on Satan’s bestseller list.
The truth about brian houston at 24:30 – 26:00 :
You need to chill out and go see Hillsong Live. The things you mention are done in churches across the world,big, small, all religions. Doesn’t mean it’s a cult. Goodness.
“all religions”??
Now hillsong supporters are comparing the Gospel to abominations like Buddhism & Jehovah’s Witnesses. It doesnt matter what other churches are doing, God’s Word is the standard and nothing else.
“chill out”??
Typical hillsong cult-speak. Try explaining to Jesus that He needs to “chill out” on the false teacher stuff.
“You need to chill out and go see Hillsong Live. The things you mention are done in churches across the world,big, small, all religions. Doesn’t mean it’s a cult.”
Hillsong bullies churches to follow their lead. Hillsong is probably one of the most tactful but destructive cults in the world today.
You don’t know how many people it’s destroyed.
hillsong is 1 big lie from its inception to finish, and it comes straight from the pit of hell
“You need to chill out and go see Hillsong Live.”
Why? What would that change? It would change nothing. Hillsong is the trashy product of Frank and Brian Houston’s flesh.
GALATIANS 5:19-20 “19 Now the works of the **********FLESH********** are manifest, which are these; Adultery, **********(FRANK HOUSTON’S) FORNICATION**********, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, ********** (BRIAN HOUSTON’S) HERESIES**********,”
So thankful I found this web site. I will use it as instructional material for helping our church leadership avoid the prideful attitude displayed.
Took the whole family to Hillsong NYC, loved it, love Jesus more, and guess what snarky web hosts…we’re all committed to the integrity of God’s Word, salvation by grace, believe in the Trinity, virgin birth, sinless Savior, preach the Cross, repentance, eternal security, Jesus’ literal resurrection, visible return of Jesus for all believers.
Why, it may be a reality that in the Rapture, Brian and Bobbi will bump into you on the way up in the twinkling of an eye.
We even fall in to the infralapsarianism slot of Christianity. As you know this is major area of concern for the masses. Hope you approve.
Acts 4.12 “There is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved.” (No Other Name).
Thank you again. You’re helping our church format a structure so Christians like you who visit our church only come once and never come back. See you in heaven, hope we don’t meet on earth.
From a shepherd who will one day stay before the Chief Shepherd…along with you.
Muchas Gracias.
Thanks for commenting Larry, we appreciate all feedback. And yes we are aware that Brian Houston and Hillsong are well able “to scratch where people are itching” (direct quote from Houston).
http://www.piratechristian.com/fightingforthefaith/2016/1/st7z8hh3bvl9d2tzouwbv7rjicsu96
2 Timothy 2:2-4 “Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and encourage with every form of patient instruction. For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.…”
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“From a shepherd who will one day stay before the Chief Shepherd […]”
Actually you are a false teacher who will one day share the same fate as your master Satan.
“[…] we’re all committed to the integrity of God’s Word, salvation by grace, believe in the Trinity, virgin birth, sinless Savior, preach the Cross, repentance, eternal security, Jesus’ literal resurrection, visible return of Jesus for all believers.”
The devil knows about all of those things as well – but he’s going to burn just the same.
“I will use [this web site] as instructional material for helping our church leadership avoid the prideful attitude displayed.”
You’re manner of discourse indicates that you’re a little too late for that. It’s always interesting to see how arrogance and ignorance make the happiest of bedfellows.
“So thankful I found this web site.”
It’s too bad that you haven’t found salvation – but at least you have plenty of company on the broad road, don’t you?
“I will use it as instructional material for helping our church leadership avoid the prideful attitude displayed.”
Brian Houston has the prideful attitude. You’d better go talk to him if you’re concerned about pride. Then take a good long hard look at yourself.
Maybe we should start boasting about our numbers and influence the way Brian does about his church. Maybe we should start giving ourselves fancy titles the way Brian Houston does.
We could organise our own blog-signing stands or organize a film crew to film us reading our articles on the streets of New York. We could look fantastic there, standing on the street corners.
“It’s too bad that you haven’t found salvation – but at least you have plenty of company on the broad road, don’t you?”
Yes good observation MN, “Larry” has found ‘prosperity salvation’ through another lost person Brian Houston. Brian has dragged “Larry” into the same boat Brian is in, the blind leading the blind into the ditch.
“We could organise our own blog-signing stands or organize a film crew to film us reading our articles on the streets of New York. We could look fantastic there, standing on the street corners.”
You could add a cute little Mr. Sparkle dancing all over the website. It would have nothing to do with Truth, but would be very Hypnotic / Entertaining to the masses.
And invite cohort ‘Prophet’ Phil Pringle to give boastful prophecies while selling his worthless paintings and pens.
And organize a pagan conference with tons of false teachers fooling tens of thousands of people making millions of dollars. Even while playing recorded interviews of Mark Driscoll after you give your word he won’t be there.
Thanks for love MN.
You need Biblical counseling ASAP.
“You need Biblical counseling ASAP.”
Why? MN understands the Bible. Churchwatch understands the Bible. Larry doesn’t understand the Bible.
Whoops. Looks like you’re the one who needs “Biblical counseling ASAP”, Larry.
Dear MN,
This will be a disappointment to you, but I have found salvation in the Lord Jesus through repentance, grace, and His shed blood on the Cross for me. In the family of God forever secure (Ephesians 2.8,9). You’ll find this information in your systematic theology textbook under “Soteriology.”
Please, don’t stop using your gift of encouragement. It’s helping!
Long list of verses there. Has that lengthy display exhausted your knowledge of Scripture?
Hi Larry – we have no problem with your claim to salvation as we are quite aware that the gift of salvation through the means of grace is given apart from Hillsong. There are many ex-Hillsong members commenting here who would have no problem with your initial approval of Hillsong as they made the same claims before the Lord graciously opened their eyes. One in particular is Elizabeth with her interview and testimonies linked here:
https://churchwatchcentral.com/2015/08/13/rosebroughs-interviews-with-ex-hillsong-insiders-elisabeth-tanya-levin/
https://churchwatchcentral.com/2015/05/18/hillsong-insider-part-1-my-exit-out-of-a-mega-church-never-to-return-again/
https://churchwatchcentral.com/2015/05/21/hillsong-insider-part-2-the-hillsong-takeover-of-a-norwegian-charismatic-mega-church/
https://churchwatchcentral.com/2015/05/26/hillsong-insider-part-3-secrecy-is-a-hillsong-trademark/
http://www.piratechristian.com/search?q=hillsong%20&f_collectionId=55de6923e4b0316f2d24335c
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch
Hi Big Tex,
Would additional Scriptural texts increased my salvation? Didn’t think so.
Look up Titus 3.4-7. You’ll find it in the New Testament section of the Bible.
Perhaps, with a name such as Big Tex you should begin with what’s known as the index of the Bible to locate various books in God’s infallible text.
Larry,
Unfortunately your knowledge of the Bible is almost as bad as your lack of wisdom.
Trust me you haven’t impressed anyone here with all your silliness.
And taking swipes at my name further reinforces how weak your arguments are. Look up Ad Hominem. It’s in the dictionary.
Churchwatchers explained something to you that you obviously don’t understand. I was waiting to see if they would correct you before saying anything, and they did. Noone ever got saved because of Brian Houston’s ‘great preaching.’ To attribute anyone’s salvation to that lost man shows how confused you are.
Hey even after Churchwatchers have this website filled with documentation of Brian Houston’s lies, you still cannot discern his evil. Even after they have pointed it all out to you? You’re not the sharpest tool in the shed.
“Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,” HEBREWS 6:1
Big Tex,
Dude, you have got to lighten up. Just having a little fun with you. I can tell you’re wound way too tight. Either that or you got tagged by the zika virus.
Take your Zantac and rest in the Lord’s Peace. Won’t bother you again.
Larry – Interestingly responding to Big Tex but not to any serious discussion elsewhere? Rather like Brian Houston who simply blocks those who ask too many serious biblical questions. (And claimed modalism is not even in the dictionary when asked about his ongoing relationship with oneness pentecostal/modalist T.D.Jakes)
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+5%3A1-17&version=KJV
Amongst list of commandments for Christians in above passage:
4 Neither filthiness, nor *foolish talking*, nor *jesting*, which are not convenient:
….15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, *not as fools*, but as wise 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
You are following Brian Houston’s poor example very well.
Luke 6:39 And he [Jesus] spake a parable unto them, “Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch? 40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.”
Ask yourself if Hillsong will ever preach or set a good example to its followers RE sanctification.
http://www.living-for-jesus-alone.org/the-necessity-of-sanctification.html
I cant believe everyone is brainwashed disagree with your comments childish stop to judge us member of Hillsong. Waste your breath like high priest and pharisees of ancient time.leave to the Lord’s judgement when the second coming of Christ,amen!
Bay – you don’t even know what a Pharisee is. That’s how brainwashed you actually are.
Amen! I refuse to resort to name calling and such as these people are doing, but i will say this site is taking it a bit to far with the hating judgement! I believe in standing firm on Gods word, and His word says in James 4:11 “brothers & sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law & judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgement on it.” James 5:9 “Do not complain about one another, brothers, so that you will not be judged. Look, the Judge is standing at the door!” We need to humble ourselves before the Lord people!
Hi Glenda – we are dealing with false converts coming onto this site who do not want Jesus or God’s Word but would rather defend men who tickle their itching ears.
We dare not speak against our Christian brothers or sister. We would encourage you to note the language of the goat: lies, slander and bible twisting.
I totally understand how you feel. I went through the same experience with a lot of churches and some of them split up for different reasons as well. But I think your missing the point of why you go to church is to grow yourself to belong to a community of people , to share the good news to others . That’s what Jesus did when he lived on this earth . And I didn’t read all of what you had to say but I’m paraphrasing it just seemed like you came up with reasons why you didn’t like this or that. Without confronting a pastor or lead pastor . You made your own conclusions based on your opinions. And you created a blog but remained Anonymous . I think that’s funny that people b***ch about stuff but never really give there name there hiding behind the truth and there is always two sides of the story . So ask you a question what do you do for a living ? Is there some jerk in your company that gives your company a bad rap. Doesn’t mean your company is bad . Of course not doesn’t mean all churches are bad no people make it bad . You seem like a good person with good intentions, but something happened along the way and now you started a stupid blog wow!!!
You have been given a platform and this is what you do with it? As Christians we are called to lead, to be light bearers and websites like this only invite the enemy to block God’s goodness you may not agree with Hillsong but I assure you that God is also looking at your heart also. These foul and condesending words are unnecesary. Spare a thought for our Father in heaven and the precious blood of Jesus – the price paid for our freedom. The last thing this world needs is a website bashing the work of fellow Christians. Let God be our judge and defender and give yourself peace. I’m praying for the Holy Spirit to guide you and for love to conquer your heart.
“These foul and condesending words are unnecesary.”
What is “foul” is Brian Houston’s perversion of Christianity.
What is “condescending” is Brian Houston’s attitude towards anyone who tries to live by the Bible. He is always slamming his critics, anyone he disagrees with, and anyone who tries to model their lives after the Bible.
Checklist for warning signs of a cult:
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=21310
Why are YOU fearful of comparing what Hillsong says/ does with the bible?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians+3%3A5-11&version=KJV
I stumbled upon this site accidentally. Its scary, and im a believer! If I were an unbeliever i would be frightened off from becoming a christian. I can understand pointing the truth out to people, but calling them names such as “idiots”? Thats not showing the love of Jesus. The church is a big family with theological differences. But someday all of our theological differences will be made straight. The bottom line is loving Jesus! We christians should show some grace. The kind of grace Jesus shows us. People arent always gna agree with each other, but if were to busy using our sickles to cut each other down we will miss out on the harvest. I heard this quoted somewere & its so true! We are so worried about what our differences are, were missing the big picture. Which is bringing the gospel to our generation. Its all about advancing the cause of Christ people! God have mercy on all of us. Iv never attended any Hillsong church but iv heard Brian Houston preach on tv & he preached Jesus Christ, the cross & ressurection. I dont know him nor do i kno whats in his heart so i cant judge him. But Father God knows his heart. You can tear me down, call me names, tell me im wrong, it dont matter bcas you dont know my heart but praise the holy name of Jesus Christ my mighty Savior, He does!!! Matthew 7:2 For God will judge you in the same way you judge others, and He will apply to you the same rules you apply to others. Hate me if you want but my opinion of this site is, theirs to much hate and name calling. Oh have mercy on us sweet Jesus! Teach us to focus on loving You first and then loving people as we love ourselves as Your word says. The world we are living in is so hostile! Romans 12:10 says to be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves. Keywords “devoted & honor”. And Matthew 5:44-45 says to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. To the unbelievers please know that not every christian is like watching to tear other believers down. Most are overflowing with the love of Jesus. He is love! His love is so great we cant even comprehend it. Jesus Christ died on a cross for you, me, and the authors of this site and He will change your life for the better. He will give you eternal life! So i encourage you to compare whats being said with the scriptures God gave us. Dont just take what is said here as truth. In 1 Corinthians 13:1-3 it says “If I speak in tongues of men and of angels, but do not love i am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if i have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if i have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, i am nothing. If i give away all i have and deliver up my body to be burned but have not love, i gain nothing. Oh thank You God that You look at us through eyes of Love! Peace, love, and grace to all in Jesus name! Where would we be without You King Jesus!
This website kills me. “churchwatcher” I think you need Jesus. I’m not being sarcastic either. You are very prideful and hateful. I think you need to get to know Jesus. He was neither of those things and being like Jesus is what being a Christian is about. Not pointing out other people’s flaws.
You say Hillsong “preaches false gospel”
Proof please
Just guessing I’ve seen and heard more of their message than you.
And one more time since I have yet to get an answer. What is the true Gospel in you own words.
This is basically what I got out of this website.
“You’re being hateful”
“No Pastor Brian is being hateful”
“You’re being rude”
“No pastor Brian is being rude”
“You’re causing division”
“No pastor Brian is causing division”
“You’re a stupid head”
“No you’re a stupid head”
Friend of Jesus
Then you are clearly not hearing God’s Word which is often presented on this site which backs our claims.
It is Jesus Christ HIMSELF that calls Brian Houston a false teacher. Your issue is with Jesus – not us.
Clearly you are trampling the pearl of scripture at the expense of holding on to your idols. All we can say is that your condemnation is just. You do not heed to the teachings and warnings of Jesus. You do not hold to the message of Christ’s atoning sacrifice. If you did, you would be hearing your shepherds voice and avoid the wolves and hirelings.
It boils down to Christ’s Words, “If you love me, keep my commandments.” You don’t FoJ. You’ve made that abundantly clear.
Jesus is my Lord and Savior. I fallow Him. You are not Him nor are you words His words. You still have yet to answer any of my questions. I guess I will answer them for you. First there is no perfect church. I have sinned and you have sinned. I’m imperfect you’re imperfect. Only Jesus was perfect. The Gospel is that this perfect man, the Son of God. He suffered and was crucified for the sins of the world. That’s you and me. He was buried and rose again the third day, thereby defeating the grave so that any who put their faith in Him would not die but live eternally with Him.
Do you have something you would like to add to this gospel?
And this to me sounds like the Gospel I’ve been hearing from hillsong and church of Christ and baptist and church of God and oh yeah the Bible. Oh and thank you for taking it upon yourself to condemn me. God’s word is in the Holy Bible. This website is not scripture and even the Devil can quote scripture so just because someone throws a little in on their hate mongering doesn’t make it a word from God.
FOJ, the question/problem is not that: Churchwatch is saying hateful/judgemental things on their website.
The real question/problem is: Why are you supporting the SUPER-LIAR brian houston. That’s what needs to be answered at this point. He is not and never was even qualified to be a pastor, he cannot teach the Word of God, he doesn’t even understand it himself. Now why do you support a SUPER-LIAR? That’s what needs to be clarified. What is your (AND ED’S) reasoning for your own SUPER-ERROR?
Love to hear it. Because this conversation is not about Churchwatch’s error, it’s really about your own in all honesty.
“Do you have something you would like to add to this gospel?”
brian c houston does. its called “YOU NEED MORE MONEY!!!” and “KINDGOM WOMEN LOVE SEX!!!”
“And this to me sounds like the Gospel I’ve been hearing from hillsong”
thats because you dont pay good attention to what hillsong has been saying all along.
“God’s word is in the Holy Bible.”
this has nothing to do with the issue of hillsongs great many lies. you are mixing truth with error now….. very sad of you to do this. where did you take lessons in twisting things?
“This website is not scripture”
and so what about it? neither is hillsong or what proceeds from brian c houstons mouth.
Friend of Jesus,
when you push liars such as brian houston, you inherit his lies too. his lies actually become your own. you will be held accountable for explanation on why you do this.
I never got on here to defend Hillsong but to try to get you guys to see your error. You keep deflecting all my questions to you toward Brian and hillsong. And for you to say that the Holy Bible being God’s Word is irrelevant to issue of Hillsong message is just crazy. What are you judging their message against if not the Holy Bible? And where is this “inheriting lies too” thing in the Bible. Don’t pick at the speck in your neighbors eye when you have a plank in you own.
Ok I just found it on the bible:
When you see a worthless person call him worthless, or a fool call him a fool.
Matt. 5:22
Hate your enemy, and curse those you disagree with.
Matt. 5:44
Right here it’s on you website it must be true.
Hope you guys realize the greatest commandment is love… not to make sure everyone else is doing right and being holy.
“I never got on here to defend Hillsong but to try to get you guys to see your error.”
there is no error here. by fighting this website you are defending hillsong. get it??
“And for you to say that the Holy Bible being God’s Word is irrelevant to issue of Hillsong message is just crazy.”
is it?? really?? hillsongs message is the opposite of the Bible.
and you simply stating “the Holy Bible is God’s Word” is an undisputed fact here so it adds nothing to your arguments. that come in loud ’n clear better for you now??
“And where is this “inheriting lies too” thing in the Bible.”
when you defend liars, you partake in their lies. what more explanation is needed??
“Don’t pick at the speck in your neighbors eye when you have a plank in you own.”
stop misusing verses. that is talking of hypocritical judgements. i do not do the things being discussed here. so stop misusing verses which you clearly do not understand.
“not to make sure everyone else is doing right and being holy.”
stop making up your own belief system guy. 1 cor 5 13 “God will judge those outside. Expel the wicked person from among you.” go study your Bible for a few yrs, then come back once you know what youre talking about guy. please.
qn#1: also u still havent answered. why are u defending the liar brian houston??
qn#2: how much have you time spent studying what he does??
qn#3: our LORD JESUS said to watch out for false techers and avoid them. so. tell us, how much time have you spent studying this. 5 mins?? come on seriously. tell the truth now. i say u have spent zero time. thats obvious. that means you do not take our LORD JESUS words very serious, now do you?? come on guy. tell the truth ’n stop dodging it. please. put up or shut up and go away. seriously man.
further, i bet u havent had the decency or patience to be willing to read 1 single article on this website before casting your judgements against it. u jumping to conclusions. lots of them. go study the verses. stop making up your own philosophy and mixing it with the gospel. time to move beyond the milk and pick up some meat.
heb 5 14 “But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.”
u need to just do what the verse says and stop yapping about other things from your already manmade mind made up perspectives. do what hebrews says. what does it say again?? do it.
I really wish we could sit down together face to face and have an indepth bible study on these subjects. You can make judgements about me if you want but I do have the Spirit of God in me. I know the bible and its message well. This is not really a good platform for these discussions. I read on a daily basis, led by the Spirit. I read things in context of what is said before and after it, who says it, who it’s said to, and the situation it is said in. I know you will argue this but you don’t even know me… I know you’ll say my words have said it all…
Do you believe in miracles? Has the Holy Spirit ever spoke to you directly? I’m asking wondering if your belief in Christ is head knowledge or if it is a belief of the heart? Have you experienced the fruits of the Spirit? Have you been set free from drugs or alcohol? I know my Savior and I have no doubt of my salvation. God is love. God is of course also Holy and all false preachers, fake Christians and those who reject the Gospel will be judged… at the judgement. Imagine putting the amount of energy we put into convincing one or the other is right… imagine if we put that energy into convincing people that Jesus is Lord?
“I really wish we could sit down together face to face and have an indepth bible study on these subjects.”
why?? the Word has said it all. u refuse to listen.
“I know the bible and its message well.”
u have proven thats not true. u know very little. what are u arguing for and about?? this website is tells the truth about brian houston & u stand against those arguments. and without even reading it. imagine that how naive u really really are. i have wasted enuough of my times on u. no, too much of my time on u.
no group study is needed.
FoJ, are you going attempt the assignment set for you? Question 2 will make you do a lot of bible study if you make a serious effort. https://hillsongchurchwatch.com/about/#comment-29177
If not, how about you at least answer this question regarding following verse before resorting to yet more “whataboutery”:
1 Thessalonians 5:22 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
Does that include what appears evil to God as well to men -YES or NO?
To be honest with you I don’t care what you guys think as about Brian Houston. If you have a problem with Hill song and it is clear in scripture bring it to them. Like I said before I didn’t get on here to talk about Hillsong. I don’t like to downgrade people or gossip. I started these conversations hoping you might see that hate is not the way to go. And please don’t just deflect all my comment to what Brian does. You don’t go to His church and he doesn’t go to your chuch. I can’t help but wonder if you even go to church. Jesus says that the Lord desires mercy, learn what this means. I wish you would consider group studies. They will help you grow and help you learn correct doctrine. If you go into the Bible trying to prove your view you will probably be able to find verses to do that. Reading with others help you see things from another’s view point and be less bias. As iron sharpens iron so the countenance of one man brighteneth another. Even if you guys were right with your message you guys come off as hateful and are very rude to those who disagree with you. Don’t think this will help you get your message across. When you attack people they tend to shut down and not listen. You need to be gentle and come at people with love.
“If you go into the Bible trying to prove your view you will probably be able to find verses to do that.”
Sorry. We didn’t know you were in the wilderness tempting Jesus.
“To be honest with you I don’t care what you guys think as about Brian Houston.”
Well to be honest with you I don’t care what you call your screen name, you are not a ‘Friend of Jesus’ nor a ‘Friend to the Body of Christ’, while you have no love for either.
You have no love, because you do not care they are being fed tons and tons of errors. That makes you more an “Enemy of the Body of Christ”, than a ‘friend’ to anyone.
FOJ, why won’t you answer any of my questions directly?
Again….”Avoid all appearance of evil.”
Should genuine, bible believing Christians include what appears evil to God – YES or NO?
Cheat shortcut: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Samuel+16%3A7&version=KJV
Friend of Jesus, from what I’ve read, Thinker and Churchwatcher are patient with people and generally offer courteous responses. They are informed; having done much research and having sufficient evidence to support opinions about Hillsong. My advice is to consider the evidence. What does the evidence show?
Occasionally, Thinker and Churchwatcher’s responses may raise a few eyebrows and some may interpret comments as being rude or hateful. I don’t think this though – perhaps ‘pointed’ is an accurate adjective at times – and might be necessary. However, the heart behind responses is to educate and guide misled people – because they care about and love people, including you, Friend of Jesus.
In addition, I don’t believe the authors of this website hate the Houstons, but rather hate their bad fruit. It isn’t about ‘downgrading people or gossiping’ as you put it. Just as God hates evil, it is understandable when Christians hate evil too. In fact, it is quite normal and expected that true followers of Christ will hate evil and want to warn others about it, leading them to truth and freedom.
God wants people to love the truth and understands when we hate evil. There’s so many verses to support this.
http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Evil,-Warnings-Against
Hillsong isn’t all bad, but remember that the evil one, like Hillsong, mixes truth and error, over and over again, including the error of omission. That’s dangerous and means a false gospel is being preached. A bit of truth, with a bit of error equals sin/evil. Pray for understanding and check out the evidence.
Thanks AJ. I am not one of formal (?) team but I contribute regularly because I am so concerned that Hillsongees are convinced if they agree with John 3:16 hard enough and feel (what they believe to be) God’s presence during worship portion of service that automatically means they are saved if they have made “a decision for Jesus”.
I believed the same as Hillsongees until I no longer felt anything during worship despite those local gifted worship leaders. My severe moral slide after leaving that Hillsong-model church over following years makes me now seriously question my salvation pre-hearing street preaching (Nov. 2006) that made me investigate the whole Gospel online (led to repentance from sin as a result of faith in Jesus Christ).
That’s why I try to be as courteous as possible because I suspect that many Hillsongees feel those same fuzzy worship feelings I had felt previously. I want them to now carefully examine their faith with their bible open to see if 1. They’ve been taught the WHOLE biblical Christian faith and 2. if they prove their love for Jesus via obeying God’s commandments from the bible (not preacher) NOT their feelings – something I certainly wouldn’t have done if personal abuse had been given to me.
Most people know the power of music to change moods. Many people don’t realise the power of altered consciousness via prolonged repetitive music though. http://news.stanford.edu/news/2006/may31/brainwave-053106.html
The biblical content of nearly ad lib Hillsong-style speeches is of very poor standards/ nearly nonexistent if compared to carefully prepared sermons. People under “the spell” of Hillsong music will not realize that however. How many Hillsongees/ Hilsong-style church attendees could leave the service with a buzz AND be able to repeat the bible verses/ overall bible message preached upon a day later? How many will bother to examine the verses “plucked out of thin air” in context because they “felt the Holy Spirit’s presence” during music worship (yes music not only God can be worshipped during service!) and for some time afterwards?
AJ I think you are very reasonable. But I have been called a liar and been told I know nothing about the Bible, I am not a friend of Jesus but rather that I hate Him, I am going to hell, been told I need to put up or shut up. I could go on but I think you get the point. I understand their views I really do. I am a friend of Jesus regardless of what anyone says one here. I wonder very seriously if these people go to church though. You see people get too caught up on the church being perfect. I do agree that we should do our best to be holy because He is holy. But the thing is we are all still human, who miss the mark, which is sin. If you have been in church for any amount of time you will realize their are no perfect churches and there are no perfect Pastors. I have also seen in my walk with Jesus that He teaches you as you go. What you believed at the beginning you might not believe now. Christ begins a good work in you at salvation that continues your whole life. Why would you attack some one for not being the same place as you on there Christian walk? Maybe they don’t mean to attack, but to me and it seems to a lot of people on this site it sure seems that way. To be honest I have watched Brian quite a few time and it’s not exactly what I believe but I still hear jesus being preached. His perfect life, His devinity, His death burial and resurrection. I hear Him saying that everyone needs Jesus. That there is a Savior that knows you and loves you and wants to have a personal relationship with you. I have also heard them on several occasions encourage people to stay in their Bible. The way I see it if someone listens to Brian or any other preacher and accepts Jesus that is a good thing. Even if Brian has gotten off it is not Brian that saves it is the Word. I believe God is bigger than Brian. It is not believing everything right that saves you. It is believing and accepting what Jesus did for you. If you do that the Holy Spirit will do it’s job and begin to guide you. You will develop a desire to read the Bible. I guess what I’m really saying is that right or wrong I am just happy that Jesus is being preached. I’m sure many on here disagree. I am concerned when people are quick to judge and and condemn though, because there are many unbelievers who see this and say why would I want what they have. This judgmental style seems to drive away more than it draws in. Even believers and repelled how much more those who don’t believe. We love God because He first loved us, so let’s show God’s love and leave Judging people to the judgement.
You know thinker I think you testimony right hear says a lot more than all the articles I’ve read. I agree that people can worship the music and that the Holy Spirit is not a feeling. I also agree that peo pl e should seek out their own salvation with fear and trembling. I also believe in obeying God’s commandments. I believe it is the Lord that works in us both to will and to do these works. I also believe that you works are a result of your love and faith. You can clean the outside up and it would do no good. You must work with the Spirit to clean what’s in you heart and your actions will start to fall in line.
“If you stand for nothing you’ll fall for anything” Peter Marshall, 1947
Why can’t (many) people say something’s not right anymore (when it clearly is)…?
Considering Hillsong has a predominately young congregation, the two clips attached show the prevailing mindset among young adults of ‘not wanting to offend anybody’. It is amazing how these young people are uncomfortable with disagreeing with what popular culture dictates and also statements the interviewer poses about himself.
This mindset might explain why the majority of young people who attend Hillsong are reluctant to identify and oppose things in the ‘church’ which aren’t right. Hillsong -goers are too accommodating, gullible and deceived, just like those in these clips.
Family Policy Institute of Washington interviewing students of the University of Washington and Seattle University.
College Kids Say the Darndest Things – Identity
and
College Kids Say the Darndest Things – Gender
Let’s be believers who aren’t afraid to say something’s not right – those who will stand for the truth.
Thanks for details of your experiences Thinker. I’m glad you got out and were open to truth.
FOJ, I haven’t checked though posts as to who has said such things to you, but I agree that that sort of language is unnecessary and is bullying behaviour.
I believe God can save people, even through the Hillsong ‘church’. But, I think there could be people who think they’re saved but are false converts – if they are responding to a false gospel, the properity gospel for instance. God knows.
Some of what you say I understand and agree with. However, Hillsong is more dangerous than leaders just ‘not being perfect’ or making mistakes.
Hillsong are:
* Preaching a different Jesus (e.g. one who says live a ‘big, large, expansive life so you can fulfill your potential and purpose – from Brian’s book, Live Love Lead. Where does it say that in the bible?).
* Acting without integrity (Naked Cowboy example and Brian’s flip flop response, hosting questionable/heretical speakers, accomodating/supporting the Catholic church).
* Teaching wrong things (‘Put God first in your finances – give 10 percent of your salary because this is an eternal principle’ and other examples of twisting scriptures and trying to force congregations not to give their ‘opinion’ – that ‘sermon’ of Brian’s is ridiculous).
* Compromise scripture by trying to please men, over God (statements on homosexuality to the media – because they want to please ‘everyone’ and be relevant).
* taking over other churches, acting like a big corporation, like a supermarket chain. People may have different opinions over if this is wrong/unwise or not.
And there’s more I haven’t listed, but this website reveals them in detail.
We as believers chose who we continue to be influenced by and we’re responsible for that.
I forgot to address a point made about HIllsong’s good works ministries. Yes, they’re beneficial – probably a great number of individuals and communities have been helped. Great. I make the point here though that all churches I know of, of any denomination all have outreach programs/ministries all over the world and have been doing that for longer and sow more money into these compared to Hillsong.
The good works of Hillsong is a popular argument among pro-Hillsong individuals. But when they’re not teaching right, that overshadows the good works. One shouldn’t think highly of a church or continue to go to a church because of their outreach ministries if they’re teaching incorrect doctrine, which is a serious error. God desires obedience more than sacrifices and good works.
http://www.acts17-11.com/obedience.html
“The good works of Hillsong is a popular argument among pro-Hillsong individuals. But when they’re not teaching right, that overshadows the good works. One shouldn’t think highly of a church or continue to go to a church because of their outreach ministries if they’re teaching incorrect doctrine, which is a serious error. God desires obedience more than sacrifices and good works.”
AJ, You are so right-on brother. Right-on! That was well put.
Even the Jehovah’s Witnesses & all other cults do so many charitable good works, but the Bible says they are not fit for the Kingdom of God, their teachings are trash, and they will not get into Heaven.
Good-works doers, swimming in their own cesspool of bad-to-outright-false teachings, are not groups to attend, they are groups to AVOID. COMPLETELY!
FoJ, I know you mean well but people like yourself need to learn to differentiate between Churchwatchers’ rebukes for error and actual personal abuse attacking the person themself, not the error itself. Meekness, gentleness and self-control is part of the fruit of the Spirit after all (Galatians 5:22-23). I think Churchwatchers do incredibly well under the circumstances.
AJ has done an excellent job summarizing Churchwatchers’ material which covers what even outsiders to the Christian faith should easily recognize. An immoral Christian church is an oxymoron.
I don’t focus on those issues because from the beginning I have been very concerned about Hillsong, C3 Church and any other church that uses its methods. I realized they taught and INDUCED what I experienced prior to receiving treatment. An ecstatic feelings gauge during music worship is what they use to measure their closeness to God. Positive feelings about God = Faith. Extra positive feelings/ positive testimony = strong faith. NO feelings/ negative testimony= NO faith. The intensity of romantic feelings about God shows how much you really love Him. A sea of waving hands and swaying bodies shows a real move of the “Holy Spirit”. Who needs biblical teaching if you’ve already experienced (allegedly) God’s presence?
Hillsong has taken a good thing so far the songwriters do the preaching, not the preacher. The musicians can write Christian lyrics only to the level of their own biblical/theological knowledge. Analysis of modern lyrics – quite a few Hillsong songs here: http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/worshipsongratings.html
You look at the faces on stage (Youtube). How many performers are above 40? If literal newbies for the faith are writing Hillsong’s songs as well as performing them, Hillsong-style churches can only provide baby-food theology and pep talks with Christian terminology.
A while back I noticed Houston’s love to make wisecracks and quips as soon as he has made anything close to a convicting (of sin) statement. It’s like a nervous laugh. No bible verse comes to my mind along lines of “I command you to say personal words to bring back smiles if smiles begin to fade during preaching of God’s word”. IMO It’s incredibly spiritually immature behaviour for a man of any age.
If Hillsong does follow exactly the same preaching method as the Charismatic church I attended, then Hillsong/ Hillsong-style attendees will remain as spiritually immature as when they first started attending UNLESS God has protected them e.g. with a small study group etc. where the Christians there are more spiritually AND biblically mature than the official top-ranked leaders.
As for your position: it is dangerous to take the “near enough is good enough” approach. A recent long episode of “The Dividing Line” explains why. Leaving out essential parts of the Gospel is as bad as adding to the Gospel (e.g. Roman Catholic church). Subtracting doctrines is more subtle than adding doctrines but potentially as dangerous.
http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php/2016/08/16/responding-william-lane-craig-roman-catholicism-brief-discussion-anti-reformed-rhetoric/
I was the shallowest of shallow believers. Hillsong preaches what I felt and little more. That is tragic. Fully mentally healthy Christians should have a deeper faith than the mentally fragile person I was before treatment. Yes, thinker is an ironic name. And no, my hypergraphia does not come naturally any more, I think you deserved it though Friend of Jesus. 🙂
I still feel you guys are way off, but just because your wrong doesn’t mean your evil. You should try to have more grace and mercy for people you disagree with. Read James 4:11,12 and Romans 2:1-6. If the people that preach that Jesus the son of God died and rose the third day to redeem fallen man are wrong in their theology let the Lord be their Judge. As for me I am greatful to have a God that gives me purpose. Yes I said it purpose because ultimately we should find our true purpose in God. And why would a person not want to support their church by giving tithe? Do you have something better you could be doing with the money than investing in God’s kingdon, and will he not return all that we give and even more abundantly. Are any of you perfect? Do you not stir up contentions and play the judge? You should try to find a more worthy cause than pointing fingers at other Christians and trying to find faults. Love, my friend, love is even greater than faith. Is your ambition really based in love? You could be evangelizing the lost or trying to stop abortion. Feeding the hungry housing widows and orphans. Just a few things to consider.
@Friend of False Jesus
“I am positive that I could have shown you that you have beliefs that aren’t backed by scripture or even that are contrary to it.”
Do you know what irony is?
“Let me just say real [sic] quick [sic] that when Jesus died that we also died to law and are no longer under it, but that does not mean it is heresy to do those things in the law.”
Quite the Bible scholar, aren’t you – I bet you are almost as intelligent as Bobby Houston.
“I see people on this site have a hard time believing or considering they could be wrong. Is that not pride?”
No, it is not pride. It’s well-founded confidence in God and His word.
“As for the idea or principle of tithing.”
Tithing is neither an “idea” nor a “principle”. Your rank ignorance is really on display with this gem of a statement. Anyway, you keep right on throwing your money at heretics and see how things turn out in the end.
“… it seems pretty clear that we are to support our pastors and churches and we we will be blessed for it.”
Brian “You Need More Money” Houston is not a pastor, and hillsong is not part of God’s church. It’s pretty clear that if you support that charlatan and his cult, then you will be cursed for doing so.
I just want to add that I do read and consider everything writen to me. I have also been more than willing to answer any questions asked. I wish I could be shown the same decincy. if I am “biblically illiterate” then enlighten me. It would be more effective to respond with biblically based responses that insults.
‘It would be more effective to respond with biblically based responses […]’
There are plenty of Biblically-based responses here, but you seem unwilling or unable to see that.
‘[I]f I am “biblically illiterate” then enlighten me.’
How about you do what everyone else does: read your Bible and allow the Holy Spirit to enlighten you. Or do you think that it was for no reason that God has said “Study to show yourself approved”?
Hey George, I don’t think I’ve had a single scripture given to answer a single thing. I read my Bible daily and have a personal relationship with the Spirit. I was trying to encourage one of you who claim to have such superior knowledge of the Bible to show me in the Bible proof for your views. I have provided solid scripture. Did you read the scripture? Every time I ask for someone to provide scripture on here they say something like “Why should I waste any more of my precious time on this earth” seems like a cop out.
Thinker – good to hear from you again. I understand that OT tithing is not required for the NT church. My point is that tithing is not heretical, and that there is still a blessing for those who give tithes and offering. No one would disagree, not even Brian or any other hillsong pastor, that it is about more than money. God wants to be number one in our life in every area. I believe giving is I just as much for the one giving as it is the one recieving. And when we give to a church they will be able to do missions that I would not be able to do myself. I think you guys may have misunderstood what people mean when they say tithes and offerings. It’s not something required but like I said before given out of love. It is easy to take a quote of someone’s sermon out of the full context of the sermon, and make it seem that they are teaching Gospel + tithing or Gospel + works. I think that’s what is happen here. Regardless I give tithe to my church, not required but I do it anyway. Since me and my wife have begun to do so we now both make more than we ever have, and have been blessed by the Lord so abundantly blessef that we are now financially able to give to others in need on top of what we give to our church. God has provided everything we need and more just like He promised in scripture.
I do wonder sometimes how christians get so anti OT. Jesus, Paul, Peter, Luke, Mark, James, John, Matthew, and Jude all quoted the OT scriptures. Jesus fulfilled the law but that does not mean you should throw away your old testament scriptures.
As for the being off 1% can you seriously tell me your not off even 1%? How sure are you of this?
FOJ, it’s nice to read things have turned out well for you since you decided to donate more, but positive personal testimony isn’t a sufficient substitute for direct bible passage.
There are probably quite a few struggling Christians who alternatively could type “I tithed and donated like my church told me to BUT I still lost my job/ marriage/ health/ loved ones… why me God, I was promised you would bless me- guaranteed?”
When Christians choose to donate more/tithe to their church they should be doing it to please God and show love for their church only. If God blesses them afterwards they should rejoice and give Him the glory, taking no credit for it.
RE Last sentence: When a Christian leaves the “God’s Word is the only source of spiritual knowledge” narrow path…
… inevitably they end up on the “bible AND personal experiences/ revelations/ church traditions/ man-made laws and philosophies” superhighway that – if continued on without repentance (turning back) – eventually leads to destination of “anything spiritual sounding BUT bible” deception cesspit.
E.g. Look at Oprah, Baptist church upbringing. http://www.wayoflife.org/reports/oprah_winfrey_new_age_priestess.html
@Friend of False Jesus,
“Hey George, I don’t think I’ve had a single scripture given to answer a single thing.”
Maybe that’s because Christians have been enjoined not to cast their pearls before swine. Do you know who said that, FoFJ?
“No one would disagree, not even Brian or any other hillsong pastor, that it is about more than money.”
Which would also be the reason that Brian is paid $300,000 per annum – is that right? And which would also be the reason that Brian wrote a book entitled “You Need More Money” – is that correct?
It’s most ironic that you have leapt to Brian’s defence and yet you are as ignorant of the existence of his signature mammon-worship tome as you are of the Scriptures.
Sadly you are just another clueless hillsong drone who wallows in your wilful ignorance and is quite beyond help – it looks like your light bulb moment isn’t going to arrive until you see how Brian fares at the Judgement. It’s sad but true that it wouldn’t be possible to have sheep without also having goats…
7Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
8Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
9For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
11If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
12If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
13Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
1 Corinthians 9:7-14
4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
Matthew 6:4
38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Luke 6:38
1Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
1 Corinthians 16:2
5Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
6But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9(As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
10Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)
11Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
2 Corinthians 9:5-11
This is God’s Word and I believe it when He says I give nut grudgingly but cheerfully that He is able to make all grace abound toward me; that I, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work.
Trust God for He is faithful.
“If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?”
So Brian Houston teaches such “spiritual things” as the supposed fact that Christians and muslims worship the same God, and for this he reaps “carnal things” to the tune of $300,000 per year.
Tell us, “Friend of Jesus”: do you think Brian is earning his pay? How much money have you personally flushed down the hillsong toilet?
I believe the scripture should not be interpreted by intellectual reasoning, but by revelation through the Spirit. (Matthew 16:17, 1 Corinthians 1:17-25, and 1 Corinthians 2:11)
Answer to “Spirit-filled Christians do not use reasoning” loophole:
http://www.spiritoferror.org/2010/02/brain-stopper2-human-logic-is-bad/356
So much for loving the Lord with all your “mind” if you’re prepared to forfeit it when reading his Word. And you call yourself a ‘Friend of Jesus’?
Unbelievable.
Read the scripture it’s right there. You guys need to stop picking and choosing the parts of the Bible you want to believe.
But it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him. But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of man, save the Spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:9-14
“people should take time to Google the chapters that you quoted to see that those passages are out-of-context.”
“P.S. Please read this link on scripture”
How about we just let the Bible speak for itself?
Charismatics like yourself who refuse to use the brain God has given them are as foolish *cough – trying to be diplomatic* as tourists swimming outside jellyfish screen enclosures in the northern tropics despite the many warning signs.
How about “we” use the reading comprehension skills “we” should have gained via the schooling system that 21st century societies (should still) provide?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Ws
How about “we” carefully consider what is said on a serious Christian apologetics site RE cults’ methods of (mis)quoting scripture?
Read ALL of 1 Corinthians chapter 1 THEN chapter 2.
Natural man= unsaved man, spiritually dead, NOT Christians who use the reasoning skills God has given them.
https://bible.org/seriespage/6-deep-thoughts-holy-spirit-1-corinthians-26-16
Read ALL of Book of Proverbs to see God wants us to grow in wisdom and knowledge.
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
P.S. If you read it you’ll see in the Book of Proverbs there are far more verses encouraging generosity to others and good deeds than just the favourite pro-tithing to churches passage 3:9-10. It’s therefore not limited to only financial tithing/ donations.There are also verses instructing use to use our resources carefully and wisely.
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
It’s easy to quote mine bible verses just like you did.
e.g. Negative verses against riches/ rich men caused many people in the past/ less frequently people in present (e.g. nuns/monks) to take extreme vows of poverty. https://www.christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/urge-for-poverty/
From very next chapter:
James 5:1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. 2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. 3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
Job 36:19 Will he esteem thy riches? no, not gold, nor all the forces of strength.
Proverbs 18:11 The rich man’s wealth is his strong city, and as an high wall in his own conceit.
Ecclesiastes 5:10 He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor he that loveth abundance with increase: this is also vanity. 11 When goods increase, they are increased that eat them: and what good is there to the owners thereof, saving the beholding of them with their eyes?
Psalm 49:6 They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches; 7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
Psalm 73:12 Behold, these are the ungodly, who prosper in the world; they increase in riches.
Matthew 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
—-
Therefore FOJ many people throughout the ages would have questioned *your* salvation because of your previous statement that God has blessed you financially since you started tithing more. Would that similar style of out-of-context quoting of scripture be fair to you?
“For ye are yet carnal …”
For ye are yet a clueless moron.
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Just seems scary for a group of people so quick to comdemn.
Since you reflexively resorted to playing Charismania’s favourite “do not judge EVER (on ANY matter)” card instead of thinking hard enough to answer properly and therefore defend your position…. game’s over.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+26%3A4&version=KJV
The division comes by those peddling a different gospel. You are the one bringing division by defending those that are ripping churches apart with their false doctrines.
Every scripture I have put you have said is out of context or that I’m twisting it. Even when I have put nothing but scripture you say ‘that’s not what that means’. I submit that if we are to judge Brian Houston for twisting the scripture or misinterpreting them, and say this makes him an evil cult leader, that on the basis of Matthew 7:1,2 you are in fact condemning yourself. There are many verses about judging and you are right to judge a message preached but wrong to condemn a person. I will repost a couple scriptures that you will say are out of context, but you please do tell what is the context.
1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
10Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. 11Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
I should just post the whole Bible lol. Look I know everything gets deflected back to Brian Houston but I don’t go to a Hillsong church, I don’t pay them tithes or offerings, I don’t worship their pastors or music… this is not really about them. It’s about me and you. This site is full of rude comments and insults, similar to something you would see on topix or whatever. This is about or fightings, envyings, pride, debating, backbiting, unmerciful. I’m not saying you are all these things but I’m sure one probably pertains to you. You are not perfect, neither do I claim to be perfect, but I am a faithful man who seeks God daily in prayer and in the scriptures. I seek the Lord daily and find Him daily, and when you come into the presence of our Lord Jesus you come to grips with the fact that we are imperfect. This is why we should realize that us, and our way is not the only right way. Jesus is truly the only way. I hate to see fellow believers tearing down one another. And if you truly believe the hillsong pastors are all false teachers, don’t go to their church. But to believe that someone seeking the Lord might be fooled by hillsong into worshiping a false jesus paints an awfully small picture of God. He says that those who seek will find. If these people seek God, no matter where they begin their search, Jesus promises that He will be found by them. Jesus is bigger than Hillsong and bigger than Churchwatch. Besides God knows our hearts our true intents and thoughts and He says vengeance is His. Let the Lord take care of it, he is able. With that I will retire from your page and let you do what you do.
FOJ – rather than continuing to post here, go and interact with the other articles.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“Every scripture I have put you have said is out of context or that I’m twisting it.”
Yep, it’s really quite sad: you know everything that the Bible says and absolutely nothing about what any of it means. Why don’t you ask Brian Houston for a job? I’m sure he’d hire you in a heartbeat, seeing as you are clearly a man after his own heart.
Hillsong church watch admin,
thankyou for putting this site up. I can’t begin to say how much the total ignorance of so many who attend hillsong and I used to be one of them. It’s sadly people who can’t think for themselves and are manipulated and controlled by power and money hungry people who are only interested in building their own agenda. Jesus did say that the ones who do find the narrow gate are few. (Because they put Jesus first,die to self and are led by the Holy Spirit). The gullible masses who are blindly following these compromising charlatans will sadly not find the narrow gate that Jesus spoke of. Unless they break away from crap like this and seek Him for themselves. The remnant will be saved. I’m so tired of people making excuses for this compromising rubbish that makes God and me vomit. These organisations use people, manipulate and also control while making money and totally feathering their own nests. It’s an utter and absolute disgrace and it makes me so furious.
I was at a Color your World conference once in Sydney,and Brian was promoting the compassion charity that they run. They only had cute faces of little ones who needed help. Then Brian said for the first 10 people who come down and sign up to help, will get to meet Darlene Zschech. (That, my friends is manipulation and bribery). I could go on and on with countless true stories of people that I know and also some family who used to attend this total rubbish and they were totally used and spat out. While these compromising jerks climbed the hillpong ladder.
I could go on and on, but it infuriates me how these people totally manipulate the true gospel and preach it to suit themselves. They compromise and compromise and compromise.
To the ones who want to debate me, I will tell you this one thing. I won’t waste my time or energy with your total ignorance. I’ve no time or patience for total ignorance.
The enemy uses ignorance, and naivety to get what he wants done. Through these idiots. They are helping to also bring in the one world church and also support the movement that surpreses the true gosepel.
I’ll say no more,that it all.
I have to say I find it hard to believe that this site is run by actual followers of Jesus. The attacks on Christians reminds me of the religious ones who attacked Jesus for hanging out with sinners and being ‘ungodly’. But they really didnt know God themselves. Because if they did this site would be to pray for and bless the Houstons. If Jesus commanded to love your enemies (which the houstons are not) then that’s what it should be
As the bible says those who confess Jesus as savior are saying it from the Holy Spirit and that is what they are doing. I know hundreds of people especially working in entertainment who are now believers and followers of Jesus because of Hillsong. If you think thats the enemy then I don’t know whose side you are really on. Jesus said people would know His real followers by their love for one another and his biggest prayer was that all Christians become one. I honestly believe this website is causing dissension between believers and more division and does not sound loving at all. Therefore I can’t believe it is run by someone who really knows Jesus but rather was raised with a harsh religious upbringing. And for this I pray the God of love will reveal Himself to you and His great love for you and for others which Jesus said sums it all up! God does love you and doesn’t see you as harshly as you probably judge yourself
Rachel – we find it hard you even know or even how to love Jesus Christ with the absolute vile that rolled off your tongue in the above post.
You are no different to what Jesus said of the Pharisees:
“For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies.”
You have no idea who you are defending. The people we are monitoring are more corrupt and hostile than you think – material we can’t even publish here due to the nature of some cases. So if you really want to stand with such deviants, then that is your call.
We have never stopped pointing people to Christ and to get them in the scripture.
Those we monitor clearly don’t – and you stand with them. They can hang with many “sinners” as they want but they are leading them to a “Jesus” that is destined for hell.
“Jesus said people would know His real followers by their love for one another and his biggest prayer was that all Christians become one.”
And God said that people blaspheme Him because of unregenerates like you. You need to repent or stop calling yourself a Christian. Your brainwashed response is nothing more than demonstrating you do NOT know God or His Word. You are believing what liars and frauds are telling you to believe about God because you are too lazy to read your bible.
Rachel, would Jesus and the apostles have called Christians who rebuked followers ing
Correction:
http://www.pulpitandpen.org/2016/12/19/christine-caine-drops-trousers-with-hillsongs-bobbie-houston/
Would Jesus/apostles have rebuked people doing similar acts “in the name of Christ”?
Wouldn’t that make them Pharisees according to your definition?
Rachel, divisive people are those who preach incorrect doctrine, not those who warn others about their errors. There’s a misconception in Christian circles that we must not offend or disagree with others who are, or claim they are Christians. But this isn’t correct.
Keep reading this site, look at the links. You could look at the article in the link I posted recently under the page, Grace to You Weighs in…Also, you’ll find many authors/pastors critiqueing Hillsong, not just this site.
Churchwatcher, Rachel is probably a new Christian, deceived, as many are by the lights, positivity and seductiveness of Hillsong and prosperity gospel. They don’t know any better, they don’t know about false converts etc (though there are probably a number of genuine conversions – God knows) but with education and yes, more bible reading, will likely realise in time (as many have – and your site has helped this happen).
Amongst some of your appropriate points and use of verses in answering Rachel, other parts: ‘vile that rolled off your tongue’, ‘brainwashed’ and ‘unregenerates like you’ are extreme and unnecessary.
Let’s be people who resist sounding like this when we communicate with people.
AJ – There are a team of moderators posting as Churchwatcher, and your comment definitely meets with this particular moderator’s approval. Hope that particular moderator takes your advice on board.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Four years ago God led our family to Hillsong. Yes. Led. Why you say? Because I never wanted to go to HS myself. No particular reason than it didn’t interest me. At the time we were in a small church that had loved on us in a time of need and helped heal our hurting hearts. I didn’t want to leave there. But there was no denying the leading of God.
Having four teenage children at the time, most of them only came to church because they had to. When we went to HS God moved in a mighty way. Within a couple of months ALL of them had rededicated their lives to God. They loved the youth programme, they got involved and they have flourished. Four years later all of them have been baptised, two of them are youth leaders, one is on the creative team and one is still attending youth.
My kids who were disinterested in God now LOVE Him. They read their Bibles regularly, they proactively seek time with God, and they serve. They are changed because of the influence of Hillsong. It is genuine, their love for God is genuine and what more can a parent ask than that their child is in church every week praising God. I KNOW without Hillsong my kids would be doing a lot more undesirable things.
For my own story, when we first started attending HS my marriage wasn’t in a good place. My husband changed and I changed through what we learnt and were taught. It was the first time in my life (after 40 years of churches), I found acceptance in God. I knew who I was, and I knew who He was. I no longer sought the sin in my life because I wanted to honour God above my own desires. Our lives are changed, firstly all glory to God and secondly thankfulness to a church who genuinely loves God.
Do I agree with everything in HS? No. But neither did I agree with everything in our previous Baptist Church or the Brethern one I was brought up in. No church is perfect. However, I know from experience that the heart of HS is about God and His love for us.
This is just my story.
“This is just my story.”
That’s correct – all that you have written is just a story, and it means absolutely nothing. It’s sad to think that there are so many gullible victims just like you, for whom the penny won’t drop until they are found wanting at the judgement.
It is true that the blood of all those who go to eternal death in the lake of fire will be required at the hand of Brian Houston, but you yourself will also be held accountable for the fate of your children. You will have plenty of time to think about that in the flames, and to rue the foolishness of having followed the Antichrist’s harlot.
Felicity, you sound very sincere.
Is your particular individual home church doing or teaching anything differently to Hillsong Headquarters’ top leaders?
Have you compared your own leaders’ moral examples with the head honchos?
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