For decades we have watched Hillsong act underhanded to Christians who question their practices and towards media who do their best to accurately report on the Hillsong movement. We are very concerned seeing similar games played by Hillsong behind the scenes to respected ministers and leaders.
Dr. James White is a respected Christian man in the field of discernment and apologetics. He sometimes weighs in on important church issues and recently decided to tackle the controversy surrounding Hillsong’s vague stance on homosexuality. We wish to highlight what James White recently said on his show titled ‘Seer Stones, Hillsong Church, and KJVOnly Deceitfulness’:
“So when someone says, “Jesus never addressed this issue,” they’re just ignorant. They just don’t know what they are talking about. And Carl says, “I know that. I agree. And it was a combination of my not speaking clearly enough and them not following up with what I said afterward where I said those things.”
So, you know. Okay I hear you. Got it. Alright.
I tried to be- if I’m going to criticise, I want to try to be fair, and I want to try to be accurate. And the fact is, there are sources amongst conservative Christians that are trusted that shouldn’t be. We re-post stuff that isn’t always overally accurate. And my concern was exactly that. My concern was exactly that. Because, these are important issues. And when we are not- when we don’t do our homework and we just go with the twelve-gate shotgun blast from the start, we may think we are doing the Elijah thing. But in reality we are only hurting ourselves. Because then people can just focus on that and not focus upon what the real issue is.”
One has to wonder what Carl Lentz disclosed in that conversation with James White.
This is because we have the impression that Dr. James White had trouble finding the source of this quote from Carl Lentz and we find it odd that Carl Lentz didn’t give him the audio/source or apologise for his sloppy witness on the CNN program.
You can find this uploaded media presentation with the relevant quote (9:18-10:08) in the Poppy Harlow interview, on the ‘Pastor Carl Lentz’ YouTube channel.
Below the video, you can read:
Carl Lentz 2015 sermons | Carl Lentz sermons.
Directed by Carl Lentz
Be Blessed As You Grow In Grace And Knowledge and share the videos with your friends so that they maybe blessed too.
Source: Pastor Carl Lentz, Carl Lentz | Tattooed Megapastor Carl Lentz The Next Joel Osteen Mar 12,2015, YouTube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPOKqMonUc8, Uploaded 10/03/2015. (Accessed 10/08/2015.)
So why didn’t Carl Lentz “bless” James White?
Just in case it may be pulled by Hillsong, here is another screen grab of this video from the ‘Pastor Carl Lentz’ channel (titled ‘Carl Lentz | Tattooed Megapastor Carl Lentz The Next Joel Osteen Mar 12,2015‘):
If Carl is protesting to James White “that it was a combination of [him] not speaking clearly enough and them not following up with what [he] said afterward where [he] said those things,” then why has he supposedly uploaded this video on his own YouTube channel?
[09:18-09:20] Announcer: “Are gay men and women welcome in the church?”
[09:21-09:24] Carl Lentz: “Absolutely. We have a lot of gay men and women in the church and I pray we always do.”
[09:25-09:30] Laura Lentz: “It’s not our place to tell anyone how they should live. That’s there journey.”
[09:31-9:37] Announcer: “Every article I’ve read about you guys says, “he declined to discuss gay marriage.’”
[9:37-10:08] Carl Lentz: “Yeah, it’s a misquote because I do discuss it just not the way people want me to. When it comes to homosexuality, I refuse to let another human being or a media moment dictate how we approach it. Jesus was in the thick of an area where homosexuality, just like it is today, was wildly prevalent. And I’m still waiting for someone to show me the quote where Jesus addressed it on the record in front of people. You won’t find it because he never did.”
In Australia, Hillsong has been saying for decades that the media are great (only when they look good). However, whenever the Australian media report Hillsong peddling Word of Faith or prosperity heresy; reported on scandals; report on leadership abusing or ripping off it’s members financially, etc, Hillsong are quick to demonise, distort, defame and damn the media organisation.
When you watch the CNN media report, it is not tearing into Hillsong. This would make sense as to why Carl Lentz would record this and upload it.
Now that he is being rightly condemned as being “ignorant” or “deceitful” by using that argument in the report, both Lentz and Houston are now defaulting to their typical defamation statements against the media, that being that they were taken out of context or misrepresented.
Thus Carl Lentz’ dialogue with White appears to be disingenuous in regards to the media misrepresenting him. [edit 11/08/2015] If he thought they misrepresented him to begin with, why did he [supposedly] upload that video to his YouTube account? [/edit]
Dr. James White, if you are reading our site, please understand that we respect your work and are perturbed that Carl Lentz was not upfront and honest with you about his views regarding homosexuality. We believe that if you are given well documented evidence against Carl Lentz, you will confront him for his rejection of God’s Word.
[Edit: Carl Lentz has responded to this which we will be addressing:
Carl LentzAugust 11, 2015 at 3:49 am
Hi! I actually don’t have a YouTube channel, so that’s unfortunate here in regards to your attempt to discredit me. Hard for me to upload videos on a site I don’t actually have. Make sure you do just a little bit of homework before you build your attack, might make it a little more believable. James white is a respectable man, who actually called to check facts. What’s funny is he actually talks about people like you the podcast you posted! Hilarious. In your eagneress to tear down, don’t rush the fact checking part. God bless you!
We can see why Carl Lentz said nothing about this growing controversial in his own church but why Brian Houston on the other side of the planet did.
Because Hillsong have deliberately mislead Christians on their position on homosexuality in their media statements, many people have suffered. And sadly, both Christians and closeted homosexuals within Hillsong will suffer.
Christ’s name has been bought in to disrepute, Christians will feel betrayed with Hillsong’s lies and cover-ups. And people like Josh Canfield and Reed Kelly will suffer backlash because of Hillsong’s forever-changing social popularity contests because members will see their latest publication as an attack against Brian Houston and Carl Lentz’s spiritual authority.
Brian Houston and Carl Lentz: don’t you DARE condemn Christian’s for your spinelessness. You are the spineless cowards who have rejected the bible, hidden behind word games and created this apostate mess. And don’t you dare insight your Hillsong members to demonise, sledge and bully this poor gay couple for sharing their experiences publicly.
What is disclosed in these below insights has only confirmed that Brian Houston over the decade has been duplicitous behind the scenes to groom Hillsong church to be a gay-affirming church (See links at end of article). We will be reviewing the serious implications of what was said in another article in light of what we know of Hillsong.) For now, in light of the statement,
“This only confirms to us that personal relationships are transformative. This isn’t difficult to accept after one looks at this through the lens of personal relationship being a foundational tenet of the Christian faith,”
please understand that we created the below graphic for a soon to-be-released article. We think it is an appropriate graphic to release so you can see the dynamics at work in Canfield’s below response:
Josh Canfield writes,
To our friends…
We’re writing this post in response to so many of you who have kindly reached out. You’ve been wondering why we have been getting so many hateful comments on all of our social media in the past week, in which some of you have been tagged or engaged.
The drama that is unfolding at the moment all revolves around the fact that we have been heavily involved in our church, Hillsong NYC. Josh has been with Hillsong for eight years in a variety of ways: choir director, vocal director, and worship team. I’ve been there since the beginning of our relationship, over three years ago, and eventually began singing in the choir and opening my apartment as the gathering place for a connect group for Hillsong members in the Broadway and theatrical communities.
We have been open and forthright about our relationship from the get-go.
Due to our openness and very public appearance together on CBC’s “Survivor”, we have been in conversation with Hillsong NYC’s lead pastors regarding the church’s non-LGBT affirming stance. Hillsong has many campuses around the world, many in places where gay marriage is now legal, so this has been an ongoing dialogue trying to figure out how and where we, as part of the LGBT community, fit in. As a church family, we have been wading through these uncharted waters of shifting culture and social change.
Several days ago some faceless, end-of-days blogger decided to attack us and our church for allowing us to serve when we are “unrepentantly embracing [our] sin” as homosexuals. Sadly, yet unsurprisingly, most super-conservative news sources picked it up and ran with it — giving this man’s voice worldwide amplification it never should have had. Not to mention it worked up Christian communities around the world, as many look to our church as a model of modern Christianity to be emulated. (We’ve never been harassed in so many foreign languages before … and we live in NYC!)
This has now forced our church to globally reaffirm their hard stance as a non-LGBT-affirming institution and disallow any gays from being in a position of leadership within the church. It’s been frustrating and a bit crushing that one crazy person could interfere so easily with the healthy and steady dialogue we’ve been having, but in a new world of social media and instant exposure, we are left unsurprised. Thankfully we are led by pastors who are grace-filled and committed to continuing to try to discern God’s will on this matter.
All this being said, many of you ask: “why are you staying somewhere that doesn’t fully accept you?” This leaves us with a tough decision. If we, as gays, pack up and leave every church we feel less than welcomed in or where we feel spiritual resistance, how will there ever be growth? The flip side of this is: why would we, as part of the gay community who have been primarily outcast for all our lives, willingly subject ourselves to more marginalization? It’s been a lot to personally work though.
Many try to discredit biblical scholars and laymen alike who have shifted their stance from non-affirming to LGBT-affirming by saying “the only reason they have changed their mind is because they know a gay person”. This only confirms to us that personal relationships are transformative. This isn’t difficult to accept after one looks at this through the lens of personal relationship being a foundational tenet of the Christian faith.
After we inadvertently and unintentionally became public representatives for gay Christianity, we feel like we have been called and have a responsibility to continue to stand authentically in our truth — especially within the church family that we call home, Hillsong NYC — we are seeking the Lord, we are Christian, we are gay, and this is our journey.
We thank you for your concern, your prayers, and your support.
To be honest, we don’t like focusing on the celebrity world.
Sadly, because Hillsong makes a big deal of it, some people have contacted us privately and want us to start looking at the issues emerging with Hillsong and their desperate attempts to drag celebrities into their New Age movement. Many people have observed that Hillsong are leeching off the credibility of the celebrity to bolster their street cred in both the secular and Christian worlds.
Our apologies if this is not your type of article.
CARL LENTZ’ UNCHRISTIAN FOCUS ON BEIBER
The sin of Hillsong is made more apparent when you see they lack any form of Christian understanding of the Holy Spirit and biblical authority when dealing with celebrities that want to live their own way. While we hope people like Justin Beiber can find faithful churches that don’t flaunt their celebrity status and encourage them to live upright and normal lives, it is in the interest of our readers to see how Hillsong is failing in this duty. We can observe Hillsong’s floundering in being Christian leaders when we examine what their celebrities behave like.
The below article reveals how poor Hillsong’s “Christianity” is to people like Beiber. After making “spectacular mistakes”, Carl Lentz has been reported saying that Beiber had come halfway around the world to make sure “his heart is right” to attend the annual Hillsong Mecca conference.
So according to Lentz, Beiber is going to Hillsong Conference to make sure “his heart is right?”
Lentz is out of line
First of all, Lentz is out of line from Hillsong’s standards in judging the heart. According to Hillsong’s idea of God only judging the heart, Lentz is now playing God.
Hillsong continually reinforces the idea that no one can judge another person because only God can judge the heart. Once again, Hillsong has exposed themselves of this double standard where only the leaders are a type of “God,” judging the hearts of their followers. This time, it was Carl Lentz publicly announcing his judgment on Justin Beiber’s heart. This is a form of spiritual abuse that can manipulate members to do what the pastor wants. In this case Lentz is using Beiber’s heart to manipulate him to come to Hillsong Conference Australia. Our opinion is that he is using him to sell Hillsong Conference Australia (which worked).
The reason why we say this is because Hillsong Conference is also in America. Why couldn’t Beiber have simply attended that Conference and not the Sydney Conference?
Secondly, Lentz is out of line for disclosing personal information as Beiber’s pastor. His comment does not respect the privacy of Justin Beiber’s “spiritual walk.” It only makes Lentz look as though he enjoys this tabloid journalism experience.
RIghteousness taught by Christianity
The above is a very revealing comment considering Christians go to church to learn how God has made us right before Him through Christ and His finished work (the gospel). Christians rely on Christ’s work not just to make their hearts right before God but their entire lives. This is called sanctification and this means our spirit, mind, heart, soul and our lives are transformed for the glory of God.
Righteousness taught by Hillsong
Carl Lentz is promoting not the gospel but legalism which is the antithesis of the Christian message (salvation by works). We can’t make our hearts right before God on our own. Beiber flying to his spiritual Mecca to make his heart right before God is a useless ritual that can send him to hell and will still make him live a life of unrepentance. Lentz spouted nothing but neo-pagan mysticism, a worldly teaching which Hillsong is guilty of promoting for decades through their “worship experiences”. And thankfully, some seculiar media outlets are now seeing that Beiber is involved in a New Age movement.
As you can see, holiness and repentance of sins was NOT preached at Hillsong Conference and Beiber clearly made “his heart right” on his own terms. Tell us, can you see God working in his life after his Mecca experience?
One has to ask how on earth Carl Lentz is pastoring this poor soul.
The Daily Telegraph reports,
Justin Bieber just ‘wants to make his heart right’ says Hillsong pastor Carl Lentz
JUSTIN Bieber revealed his renewed religious fervour yesterday, declaring at Sydney’s Hillsong conference: “I was blind but now I see.”
The pop megastar came to Australia to be part of the congregation and not to preach but, as well as quoting the lines from John 9:25, Bieber spoke to #hillsong-backstage, telling its online audience: “I love you guys. Jesus loves you.”
The man behind Bieber’s surprise visit, New York’s Hillsong pastor Carl Lentz, said, after making “spectacular mistakes”, the 21-year-old had come halfway round the world to make sure “his heart is right”.
Speaking at the Hillsong Sydney Conference the pastor, who counts stars like Bono, Vanessa Hudgens and Stephen Baldwin among his church members, described his relationship with Bieber as like “regular friends who talk all the time”.
The ‘rock star’ Hillsong pastor Carl Lentz. Picture: Instagram
Justin Bieber at Hillsong in Sydney. Picture: Instagram
The former college dropout who found God in Sydney and went on to be named as one of 37 people under the age of 35 reshaping the world by Esquire magazine, spoke candidly about his relationship with Bieber, who was brought up a Christian.
“We met when Justin was 14 after his mum reached out and we’ve become close from that day. He’s a part of our lives and has lived with us for weeks on end,” Lentz, 36, said.
Attendees gather outside Acer Arena where the Hillsong Church is holding a week long convention.
Lentz, whose met his Australian wife in Sydney, said it was amazing Bieber was so “kind and normal”.
“I can’t even explain the suffocating nature of the kind of fame that he has. If he’s going through something horrible, we’ll talk about it. If he makes a decision where I think he could have done something wiser, we’ll talk about it,” he said.
Lentz was adamant his 21-year-old pal was on the right path: “He flew halfway round the world at the busiest time of the year for him just for a church conference. It shows you what matters to him.”
Justin Bieber yesterday told #hillsongbackstage that Lentz had changed his life. Picture: Instagram
Justin Bieber and Carl Lentz have known each other since Justin was 14. Picture: Instagram/Judah Smith
Sydney Olympic Park is not known as a rock star hangout but Bieber has made the five-star Pullman hotel at Homebush his low-key base for his low-key visit, next to the Allphones Arena where the conference has attracted delegates from around the world at $350 each.
Hillsong founder Brian Houston told the congregation that it left a $1.3 million shortfall in the cost and prayed for people to be generous and donate. The church he set up in Sydney 30 years ago is now bigger in the US than Australia.
Bieber yesterday told #hillsongbackstage that Lentz had changed his life and, while this was his first Hillsong conference, it would not be his last: “I’m having a great time. It’s pretty awesome.
“The music is incredible. What they are doing is incredible, I support it 100 per cent.”
While our God shows no favouritism (Romans 2:11) and encourages Christians not to show favouritism, the god of Hillsong does. Showing unusual favouritism towards Justin Bieber lately, how has promoting Justin Beiber’s attendance at Hillsong 2015 Conference helped anyone’s Christian walk, let alone Justin’s? In light of the following article how have Hillsong helped Justin Beiber in any way shape or form? The below article informs us of the days after Justin attended the Hillsong Conference.
As well-known missionary/evangelist Paul Washer stated: “We deal five minutes with a person and their conversion and then we spend the next fifty years trying to disciple a goat into a sheep. I’m not saying this because I’m angry. I’m saying this because countless people are being deceived.” Has Justin Bieber been deceived into a false conversion?
As for showing favouritism, God says,
“My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him? But you have dishonored the poor man. Are not the rich the ones who oppress you, and the ones who drag you into court? Are they not the ones who blaspheme the honorable name by which you were called?
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.” James 2:1-9
It only goes to show that Hillsong once again refuses to acknowledge any form of biblical behaviour or governance within their own church at the expense of their followers.
The DailyMail writes,
Bottoms up! Justin Bieber gets VERY cheeky as he shares naked photo from a boat in Bora Bora
Justin Bieber delighted his Beliebers on Monday when he shared a naked photo on his Instagram account.
The cheeky 21-year-old bared his bottom as he stood with his back to the camera on the edge of a boat.
‘Look!’ he captioned the snapshot, which showed him pointing at the land ahead, although it’s fair to say none of his fans will have been admiring the scenery.
Scroll down for video
He’s a cheeky boy: Justin Bieber bared his bottom as he stripped naked for an Instagram photo on Monday
Justin is currently in Bora Bora, and it’s not clear who he is travelling with.
The singer is clearly feeling quite relaxed, and stared across the stunning blue sea for his raunchy naked photo.
Justin revealing pic caught the attention of one fan in particular – Miley Cyrus – who reposted the image, although she put her own creative crop on what she believed to be the most interesting part of the picture.
Relaxing getaway: The 21-year-old is currently in Bora Bora, having travelled there from Australia where he spent the Fourth of July (pictured)
The 22-year-old captioned the tight pic Bieber v Rihanna, after posting a similar butt-shot of Riri snipped from her B**ch Better Have My Money video six minutes earlier.
It’s been an event filled few days documented on Justin’s instagram, which has included pictures of him boozing aboard private jets and even the bloody aftermath of a shark attack on one of his entourage.
He and pal Joe Termini were swimming near a reef when a shark bit him, taking a sizeable lump out of his chest and missing ripping his nipple off by mere millimeters.
Ouch! God wasn’t on Joe Termini’s side when he went for a swim with bestie Justin on Monday and was attacked by a shark
Nauseating: Joe also posted a close-up snap of the gruesome bite mark
Let loose: Justin posted a photo of himself holding a bottle beer before boarding a private jet on Saturday with Joe and his spiritual adviser, Pastor Joel Houston
‘Exactly why i hate sharks they told us reef sharks don’t bite @joetermini,’ Justin captioned the shot, which went out to his 31.9 million Instagram followers.
Joe then posted a stomach-churning close-up of his open wound, captioning it ‘It’s been a good day’.
Bieber also brought his entourage, which included once-rumoured girlfriend Hailey Baldwin, to a five-day Hillsong church conference in Sydney
On Sunday he posted a photograph of himself with Joe and his spiritual adviser, Pastor Joel Houston, hanging out in front of a private jet, while he toasted the camera with a bottle of beer.
Not shy: It’s been an eventful few days for the singer, seen here performing in New York in September, who clearly has no qualms with shedding his clothes
Source: By DailyMail.com Reporter, Bottoms up! Justin Bieber gets VERY cheeky as he shares naked photo from a boat in Bora Bora , http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3151753/Justin-Bieber-gets-cheeky-shares-naked-photo-boat-Bora-Bora.html, 07/06/2015. (Accessed 07/07/2015.)
FANS SHOULD BE CONCERNED FOR JUSTIN BEIBER
If Justin Beiber is going to Hillsong Conference because he just “wants to make his heart right,” then neither Hillsong Conference 2015 nor his spiritual advisors give him such an opportunity. This is because Hillsong is not a church but a movement that preaches anything but the Christian gospel.
The fact that Justin Beiber was proud to state that “Lentz had changed his life” is very concerning indeed. Most Christians who go to church will claim that Jesus saved them and turned their lives around. We are continually seeing the rise of the personality cult in Hillsong.
The Daily Telegraph reports,
Justin Bieber just ‘wants to make his heart right’ says Hillsong pastor Carl Lentz
JUSTIN Bieber revealed his renewed religious fervour yesterday, declaring at Sydney’s Hillsong conference: “I was blind but now I see.”
The pop megastar came to Australia to be part of the congregation and not to preach but, as well as quoting the lines from John 9:25, Bieber spoke to #hillsong-backstage, telling its online audience: “I love you guys. Jesus loves you.”
The man behind Bieber’s surprise visit, New York’s Hillsong pastor Carl Lentz, said, after making “spectacular mistakes”, the 21-year-old had come halfway round the world to make sure “his heart is right”.
Speaking at the Hillsong Sydney Conference the pastor, who counts stars like Bono, Vanessa Hudgens and Stephen Baldwin among his church members, described his relationship with Bieber as like “regular friends who talk all the time”.
The ‘rock star’ Hillsong pastor Carl Lentz. Picture: Instagram
Justin Bieber at Hillsong in Sydney. Picture: Instagram
The former college dropout who found God in Sydney and went on to be named as one of 37 people under the age of 35 reshaping the world by Esquire magazine, spoke candidly about his relationship with Bieber, who was brought up a Christian.
“We met when Justin was 14 after his mum reached out and we’ve become close from that day. He’s a part of our lives and has lived with us for weeks on end,” Lentz, 36, said.
Attendees gather outside Acer Arena where the Hillsong Church is holding a week long convention.
Lentz, whose met his Australian wife in Sydney, said it was amazing Bieber was so “kind and normal”.
“I can’t even explain the suffocating nature of the kind of fame that he has. If he’s going through something horrible, we’ll talk about it. If he makes a decision where I think he could have done something wiser, we’ll talk about it,” he said.
Lentz was adamant his 21-year-old pal was on the right path: “He flew halfway round the world at the busiest time of the year for him just for a church conference. It shows you what matters to him.”
Justin Bieber yesterday told #hillsongbackstage that Lentz had changed his life. Picture: Instagram
Justin Bieber and Carl Lentz have known each other since Justin was 14. Picture: Instagram/Judah Smith
Sydney Olympic Park is not known as a rock star hangout but Bieber has made the five-star Pullman hotel at Homebush his low-key base for his low-key visit, next to the Allphones Arena where the conference has attracted delegates from around the world at $350 each.
Hillsong founder Brian Houston told the congregation that it left a $1.3 million shortfall in the cost and prayed for people to be generous and donate. The church he set up in Sydney 30 years ago is now bigger in the US than Australia.
Bieber yesterday told #hillsongbackstage that Lentz had changed his life and, while this was his first Hillsong conference, it would not be his last: “I’m having a great time. It’s pretty awesome.
“The music is incredible. What they are doing is incredible, I support it 100 per cent.”
Source: By Janet Fife-Yeomans & Matt Bamford, Justin Bieber just ‘wants to make his heart right’ says Hillsong pastor Carl Lentz, The Daily Telegraph, http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/entertainment/sydney-confidential/justin-bieber-just-wants-to-make-his-heart-right-says-hillsong-pastor-carl-lentz/story-fni0cvc9-1227422525508, Published 01/07/2015. (Accessed 05/05/2015.)
The Bible is not about you, it’s about Jesus. The Church is not about you, it’s about Jesus. So why is Hillsong making the Church about Justin Beiber?
Even if Justin Beiber is a controversial celebrity, no one deserves Hillsong. If anyone sees this young man, please give him the opportunity to hear the gospel and lead him to a Christian church, not a dangerous new age cult. If you don’t know what the Gospel, it’s this:
“Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received:
that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.” 1 Corinthians 15:1-11
As you can see in the above video, Justin Beiber deserves to be in a normal church where he can be treated like a normal human being for his well being and for his salvation.
EDIT 26/02/2015: Since Hillsong leadership have quickly responded to this publication from SundayWorld, we offer our readers what Hillsong leaders have said in relation to the story below.
CARL LENTZ
It appears that Carl Lentz has responded to the below article published by Sunday World through Saiko Woods.
“Saiko Woods contacted Carl earlier today and he said it wasn’t true at all.”
Source: FaceBook, https://www.facebook.com/piratechristian/posts/10205689062133080?comment_id=10205689123254608&offset=0&total_comments=34, Published 25/02/2015, 17:08. (Accessed 25/02/2015.)
Saiko Woods also stated,
“Carl Lentz said the report isn’t true. Justin isn’t performing at his church at all.”
Chris Rosebrough reported Lyall Mercer offered a statement made by Brian Houston,
Lyall Mercer who is a PR agent for Hillsong says that Brian Houston has issued a statement saying “Not true that Justin Bieber has qualified to be lay preacher or plans by Hillsong to rush him onto our platform.”
Source: Chris Rosebrough, FaceBook, https://www.facebook.com/piratechristian/posts/10205689062133080, Published 25/02/2015, 16:42. (Accessed 25/02/2015.)
LYALL MERCER (Hillsong’s PR)
Chris Rosebrough published the original article on Beiber from SundayWorld on twitter. Lyall Mercer replied,
@piratechristian No truth to this. Dangerous to believe Hollywood gossip stories.
What are your thoughts? Who is right? Does anyone have additional information on this story?
The SundayWorld reports,
Justin ‘Believer’ Bieber to perform… from the pulpit
Justin Bieber is planning a series of new performances… delivering sermons from the pulpit of his favourite church.
The pop brat claims to have turned over a new leaf after qualifying as a lay preacher following an intensive, three-month bible study course.
And he even wants to bring TV cameras into L.A.’s trendy Hillsong Church so he can preach to the masses and spread the good word as a part-time televangelist.
Bieber, who turns 21 next Sunday, has helped Hillsong become the first church in history to be signed by top Hollywood talent agency William Morris Endeavor.
The agency, whose megastar clients include Robert De Niro, Ben Affleck, John Travolta, Taylor Swift and Kanye West, is already reportedly negotiating a prime time small screen slot on Sundays with two networks.
And, to help boost ratings, The Bieb has offered to help staff clergy by reading sermons and even appealing for donations on camera.
Hillsong is a Pentecostal church that was founded in Australia in 1983 by married pastors Brian and Bobby Houston and quickly achieved popularity through its pop-style worship music, selling more than 12 million Christian records worldwide.
It now draws 100,000 attendees to services in 11 countries every week, including at the Belasco Theatre in Downtown Los Angeles, where keen devotee Bieber has brought several fellow celebrities.
These include his former girlfriend, 22-year-old singer Selena Gomez, High School Musical star Vanessa Hudgens (26) and Glee star Lea Michelle (28), who has raved about Hillsong’s “amazing vibe”.
Bieber claims the church has “transformed” his life after two years of bad boy behaviour around the world that landed him in several legal scrapes and even punch-ups with rival stars like Orlando Bloom.
He said: “I’ve done a few things that might not have been the greatest. But I’m ready to own up to them.”
Source: By Mike Parker, Justin ‘Believer’ Bieber to perform… from the pulpit, http://www.sundayworld.com/news/justin-believer-bieber-to-perform-from-the-pulpit-hillsong, Accessed 25/02/2015.
Once again, we ask the question.
Has Hillsong made any attempt to get Sunday World to retract their story?
Is Justin Bieber A Member of The Religious Cult Hillsong?
Pop star Justin Bieber is hanging out with his friend and pastor Carl Lentz over the Thanksgiving break. The Biebs posted a photo of him making a snowman with one of Lentz’s young daughters. His fans think it’s sweet.
Lentz, the 36-year-old hipster who preaches at Hillsong NYC (a spin-off of the Australian Evangelical megachurch Hillsong), met Bieber in 2008 when Bieber was just 14. “I have a special role in Justin’s life, spiritually,” Lentz told the New York Postrecently. Lentz is not your stereotypical pastor. He favors mohawks, tattoos, rap and skinny jeans. Hillsong has a troubled history including the fact that its founder confessed to molesting a 7-year-old (he was never prosecuted). The megachurch is considered by some to be a cult.
How “transparent & authentic” do you think Brian Houston will be after this recent New York Times article was published about him and his movement?
What are the chances that Brian Houston will use the same-old slanderous accusations and criticisms against people who question his movement? Do you think it will be possible for Brian to “Shun the negative” and to “Ignore the critical” overt this?
Let’s hope that Brian Houston doesn’t turn into a critic himself in light of this recent article published by the New York Times.
Megachurch With a Beat Lures a Young Flock
LOS ANGELES — A toned and sunburned 32-year-old Australian with the letters F-A-I-T-H tattooed onto his biceps strode onto the stage of a former burlesque theater here and shouted across a sea of upstretched hands and uplifted smartphones: “Let’s win this city together!”
The crowd did not need much urging. Young, diverse and devoted to Jesus, the listeners had come to the Belasco Theater from around the city, and from across the country, eager to help an Australian Pentecostal megachurch that is spreading worldwide establish its first outpost on America’s West Coast.
The church, Hillsong, has become a phenomenon, capitalizing on, and in some cases shaping, trends not only in evangelicalism but also in Christian youth culture. Its success would be rare enough at a time when religion is struggling in a secularizing Europe and North America. But Hillsong is even more remarkable because its target is young Christians in big cities, where faith seems out of fashion but where its services are packing them in.
Powered by a thriving, and lucrative, recording label that dominates Christian contemporary music, it has a vast reach — by some estimates, 100,000 people in the pews each weekend, 10 million followers on social media, 16 million albums sold, with its songs popping up in churches from Uzbekistan to Papua New Guinea.
Founded 30 years ago, Hillsong has churches in Amsterdam; Barcelona, Spain; Berlin; Cape Town; Copenhagen; Kiev, Ukraine; London; New York; Paris; and Stockholm, as well as multiple campuses in Australia and, now, an embryonic congregation in Los Angeles.
The Hillsong empire might appear to be a musical powerhouse first and a church second. It is, after all, a multimillion-dollar enterprise, drawing large crowds to arena concert performances; one of its bands, Hillsong United, is even the subject of a documentary scheduled for release by Warner Bros. next year.
Its songs, with a folk rock sound and simple, accessible lyrics, pervade theChristian charts and have transformed the Christian songbook.
“They are without a doubt the most influential producers of worship music in Christendom,” said Fred Markert, a Colorado-based leader of Youth With a Mission, a Christian organization. And Ed Stetzer, the executive director of LifeWay Research, an organization based in Nashville that studies practices in American Christianity, declared in an analysis of Hillsong, “In sensory stimulation, Hillsong’s productions rival any other contemporary form of entertainment.”
But its critics, and there are many, deride Hillsong as hipster Christianity, suggesting that its theology is thin, its enthusiasm for celebrities (Justin Bieber is among its fans) unbecoming, its politics (opposition to abortion and a murky position on homosexuality) opaque.
“It’s a prosperity movement for the millennials, in which the polyester and middle-class associations of Oral Roberts have given way to ripped jeans and sophisticated rock music,” said R. Albert Mohler Jr., the president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. “What has made Hillsong distinctive is a minimization of the actual content of the Gospel, and a far more diffuse presentation of spirituality.”
For young Christians in cities where Hillsong has churches, it has become a magnet, combining the production values of a rock concert, the energy of a nightclub and the community of a megachurch. Many of the worshipers say they are drawn by the music but have stayed because of the opportunity to be with other young Christians, and because they believe that the churches can help transform cities, both through prayer and through direct social services.
“I want to be part of something bigger than myself,” said Tricia Hidalgo, 29, who said that she first heard Hillsong music played in her childhood church in Ontario, Calif., and that as a young adult she gave up studying to be a teacher to move to Australia to attend Hillsong’s Bible college. Now, she is volunteering for the church in Los Angeles.
“We’re going to love the city, love the people, and, to me, I feel like love can break any walls,” she said.
Amanda-Paige Whittington, 32, recalled hearing Hillsong’s first huge hit, “Shout to the Lord,” as a girl in a Southern Baptist church in Mississippi.
“I told my mom, ‘One day I’m going to Hillsong,’ ” said Ms. Whittington, who also attended Hillsong’s Bible college in Sydney and now lives in Orange County. “The music drew me to the church.”
Hillsong Los Angeles, as well as Hillsong New York, which opened four years ago, is an example of a growing phenomenon in global Christianity: big church brands taking on big secular cities. This year, Saddleback Church, the Orange County megachurch led by Rick Warren, opened its own campus in Los Angeles, while several years ago, Willow Creek, the megachurch based in South Barrington, Ill., opened a campus in Chicago.
“There’s no question there’s a real current of evangelical enamorment with cities,” Mr. Stetzer said. “Evangelicals have been a rural people historically, and the cities were the places where sin was. But cities are also where the people are.”
Hillsong chooses cities not only because of population density, but also because of their impact on culture.
“These are tough, hard, dry towns for contemporary churches,” said Brian Houston, the Sydney-based senior pastor of the Hillsong empire. “We want to be strategic, and really impact cities of influence, so that the influence can reach far beyond.”
Hillsong has critics who monitor speakers at its conferences, and utterances by its leaders, for deviations from Christian orthodoxy (of concern to the right) or evidence of social conservatism (of concern to the left). Its financeshave been scrutinized by the Australian news media; its preaching is tracked by a critical blog. This year, Mr. Houston issued a clarification after being criticized by other evangelicals for suggesting that Christians and Muslims serve the same God.
Hillsong, founded by Brian Houston and his wife, Bobbie, has been anti-abortion and has described gay sex as sinful. But recently, church leaders have moderated their tone; the pastor of Hillsong New York, Carl Lentz, passed up two opportunities this year to express a view on same-sex marriage, in interviews with Katie Couric and The Huffington Post.
In the United States, Hillsong is nondenominational; in Australia, it is associated with the Australian Christian Churches, which is an affiliate of the Assemblies of God. For a time, Mr. Houston was the head of the denomination, and in 2000, he fired his father, Frank Houston, who was serving at another church, after the elder Mr. Houston acknowledged having abused a boy decades earlier.
One of Brian Houston’s sons, Joel, is Hillsong’s creative director, performs with Hillsong United and serves as a pastor at Hillsong New York. Another son, Ben, is the pastor of Hillsong Los Angeles. Ben has the “Faith” tattoo on one arm, as well as tattoos of the characters +=♥ (Jesus Is Love) and the names of his three daughters, surrounded by images of flowers and butterflies, as well as that of a lion, “to remind me I’m a man.”
Hillsong’s worship style is charismatic, meaning there is an emphasis on the Holy Spirit and on divine healing, but there is little speaking in tongues, which is seen at more conventional Pentecostal churches.
The Houstons like to say that worship should be enjoyed, not endured. Services are often held in dimly lit concert venues: In New York, the church started at Irving Plaza and then relocated to the Grand Ballroom at the Manhattan Center; in Los Angeles, a debut was held at 1 Oak, a West Hollywood club. There are lines to get in, and fewer seats than worshipers. Some worshipers share images and thoughts on social media during services.
The sound has evolved over the decades, but is now sometimes compared to U2’s. Tom Wagner, an ethnomusicologist at the University of Edinburgh, said Hillsong’s music was characterized by rich orchestration, but simple harmonies, and was often regarded by listeners as “spiritually anointed.”
“They’re very good at writing songs that are catchy,” Mr. Wagner said. “They know what works.”
Source: By Michael Paulson, Megachurch With a Beat Lures a Young Flock, New York Times, http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/10/us/hillsong-megachurch-with-a-beat-lures-a-young-flock.html, Published 09/09/2014. (Accessed 11/09/2014.)
Queerstianity: A group of people that supposedly push no political or religious agenda but “share” their philosophy of tolerance and love onto others.” (Source: Urban Dictionary [slightly edited])
Apprising reports,
PASTOR CARL LENTZ USING BAIT AND SWITCH WITH HOMOSEXUALITY?
“Behold, you trust in deceptive words to no avail.” (Jeremiah 7:8)
People May Be Lured In, But If You Love Them, Eventually You Have To Tell Them The Truth
The fact is, Lentz is someone you need to become aware of because the man “[w]ith the Lord as his swagger coach,”2 and touted by some at Charisma magazine as “this generation’s Billy Graham,”3appears to be a star on the rise a la the way former Emerging Church rock star pastor Rob Bell once was.4 Why, even the SBC’s Priscilla Shirer is on record enthusiastically declaring of Lentz, “He is going to be huge.”5
One of the reasons why we are monitoring the Hillsong Church is because of it’s ecumenical bullying. Hillsong has been pushing on Christianity various beliefs that oppose essential truths of the Christian faith. If you oppose their ecumenical love you are accused of being “critical” or “religious”.
The point of this series of articles is not to make this about what people think is the “Gay Issue”. The issue we are about to address is more important.
The problem is the “Christian Issue” and the Christian issue is this: we have Brian Houston of Hillsong Church operating as a spiritual fraud, claiming to represent the Christian faith in Australia and supposedly speak[ing] on behalf of God. (source)
As I see it, rather than deal openly with the deviant lifestyle of having sexual relations with another of the same sex, i.e homosexuality, there does appear to be a real ecumenical bent lately in the HC camp where critics like myself are merely dismissed as unloving religious folk. Take for example, the other night onAnderson Cooper 360 Poppy Harlow said to Carl Lentz, “You take issue when people call[ing what you’re involved with at HCNYC] religion.”
Lentz replied in agreement:
You can be religious about being a car thief, you can be a religious, you know, criminal but we have a relationship with God. (source)
More postmodern obfuscation (being obscure, clouding the meaning of words). Ok, pastor Carl, but one only gets to have a relationship with God through the Gospel of repentance and forgiveness in Jesus Name. And I find it a bit odd that Lentz would disparage religion when the Facebook page for his HCNYC literally says that it’s a Religious Organization:
Be that as it may, as part of her Keeping the Faith6 series in December of last year Carl Lentz appeared on Katie with Katie Couric and “made it clear he will not take a public stance on the controversial issue [of homosexuality].”7 Below you’ll see Lentz with his usual obfuscation concerning homosexuality. To her credit, Katie Couric did try to get Lentz to more clearly articulate his position; but her attempt to cut through the postmodern fog in which he likes to hide would prove unsuccessful.
Couric asked Lentz, “Do you guys have positions on, say, gay marriage, and things like that?” As you’ll see following, his response shows us the evil impact of leaders in the Emerging Church within mainstream evangelicalism like the aforementioned Rob Bell and his friend Doug Pagitt.8 The reason being, Lentz sounds just like those Emergents in “the conversation” circa 1997. Lentz tells Couric, “We have a stance on love; in everything else, we have a conversations.”
Perplexed, Couric asks him, “So, what does that mean?” But all Lentz offered was, “Exactly that.” Sadly, we just more obfuscation on the part of HCNYC pastor Carl Lentz:
From what I’ve seen, Carl Lentz appears to run down the same track in each interview when asked about homosexuality. So for our purposes here, I want to focus in on Lentz’ appearance on HuffPost Live (HPL) with host Ahmed Shihab-Eldin later that same day (December 19); because he dealt with quite similar questions concerning homosexuality. Before I show you the clip from the interview with HCNYC hipster pastor Carl Lenz that was conducted by Shihab-Eldin, one of the founding hosts of HPL,9 let me walk you through a couple of things I want to highlight before you view it. My hope is that it’ll help you cut through the postmodern fog.
As you’ll see, the clip begins with Lentz reading the last part of 1 Thessalonians 5:14 in the corruptMessage paraphrase10 and attempting a little standup comedy routine using God’s Word a la every other cult of celebrity pastor—whether evangelical or emerging. Then he focuses in on the phrase, “[be] attentive to individual needs” as his launch point for personal commentary. Lentz opines:
That’s interesting. Isn’t that cool? That’s why some churches want us to give blanket answers on huge issues. Well, my Bible says, “[Be] attentive to individual needs.” that’s why I’m not going to make polarizing, political, statements about certain things in our Christian community right now. No matter who says, what, we won’t be pressured not giving blanket statements to “individual needs.” Never.11
Let’s leave aside that the Greek text of 1 Thessalonians 5:14 doesn’t actually say anything about individual needs. I say, sure, the kind of rhetoric employed above by Lentz plays very well to the world. However, it isn’t that some churches want blanket statements concerning the issue of homosexuality, it’s God Himself Who has already stated that same-sex sexual relations is sin.12 Now, we need to ask a couple of questions here: Is Carl Lentz trying to say that some “individual needs” of homosexuals would make their sexual relations not sinful? And, if that isn’t the case, then why can’t Lentz just come out and plainly state that same-sex sexual relations is sin?
You’ll see that Shihab-Eldin then asks Lentz “are people of all sexual orientations welcome” at HCNYC? But this only serves to further divert us away from the key issue. It’s not that people who are caught up in sin are not welcome to come to a church service; the issue is: Can such a one—unrepentant in their sin—be a member in good standing at HCNYC and fully participate as a Christian considered in right relationship with Jesus? Unless the question is framed in a way like this, it allows people like Carl Lentz to give the impression that they may actually be fully homosexual-affirming.
And this gets us to the heart of the matter here with people-pleasing “conversationalists” like Carl Lentz or his predecessors more aligned with the Emerging Church such as homosexual-affirming “pastor” Jay Bakker. They cloud the issues with their practice of obfuscation and then refuse to address an issue like homosexuality head on. The more I watch Carl Lentz, the more it begins to appear to me to amount to a bait and switch; unless, he is actually gay-affirmig and just hasn’t formally announced it yet. A la a politician, by carefully using his words publicly—that don’t really mean anything—as to what his position re. same-sex sexual relationships might be, Lentz does leave one with the impression that he may approve of homosexual relationships.
So, in essence, he appears to be employing this technique as the bait with which to draw LGBT people who are under this impression into HCNYC. In other words, they would attend HCNYC because they believe they’d be accepted as Christians even though they are practicing homosexuals. However, this actually leaves Carl Lentz between the Rock and a hard place as he tries to be all things to all people, so to speak. For you see, Christ Jesus, our Creator, deems same-sex sexual relations as sexual immorality because, at the very least, it’s sexual relations outside His marriage covenant.13 So, if Lentz is affirming of homosexual relationships, then he’s going to be at odds with the Person Who would have sent him forth as a minister of His Gospel.
But on the other hand, if Lentz actually isn’t affirming of homosexuality and considers it sin, then he has yet another problem. That’s because, at some point, he is going to have to take the bait away from these LGBT people and then present to them the switch that now they will have to repent of their sin. In the long run, Carl Lentz really isn’t going to win either way. Such is the problem for vision-casting prophet-pastors who, like Lentz, are trying to appeal to pouty postmoderns. Since the “in” thing for them is tolerance—then to grow his little kingdom in downtown Manhattan—Lentz has to, at least, give the outward impression that he is tolerant and affirming of same-sex sexual relations. Such is the dilemma faced by Carl Lentz and his Seeker Driven HCNYC.
So keep this in mind now as we move forward; being vague is 1) not living up to the role of a pastor in Jesus’ eyes, and 2) this all will eventually leaves Lentz in a no-win situation. That fact is, the time will come when he’s either going to have to come out publicly, and openly, as affirming of same-sex sexual relations. Or, Carl Lentz is going to finally act in accordance of what God has commanded His pastors to do, and tell the truth to members of his HCNYC, as well as to the LGBT community whom he has misled. Now we’re ready to come back to the video clip and Ahmed Shihab-Eldin’s opening question “are people of all sexual orientations welcome” at HCNYC.
Lentz begins his spiritual tap dance by telling him:
What I was referring to there [the last part of 1 Thessalonians 5:14 quoted above] was, you know, some people be like, “you need to make be—you—you need to answer our questions about the homosexuality issue.” And I say, “I do. You just don’t like my answers.” And here’s exactly what I mean by that. Some media wants us to use our pulpit to, ah, have a soapbox for social issues. I don’t believe that’s our job.”14
Frankly, I haven’t heard Lentz give any answers to “questions about the homosexuality issue” to not like in the first place. Ah, but I digress. Let me point out that in the prior interview with Katie Couric, Carl Lentz had said something quite similar, which is the main concern here because he stated:
Often people want you make these big statements about things and I don’t believe it’s fair. I don’t think a public forum is always the best place to talk about something that’s so, sensitive, and important to so many; because a public forum—there’s no discussion there—and everybody’s situation is unique. So, I’ve been with some people who’d be like, “Make a statement about this.” And I’ll say, “Why?” I’d rather have a conversation,…15
Well, I’ll tell you why pastor Carl, because as a pastor it happens to be your job to “make a statement” by telling people what God has said. 2 Timothy 4:2 — preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. Notice here that we’re not told the pastor is supposed to have a conversation about what God has said. Quite the opposite, he is to proclaim the Word of the Lord in the Bible. Yet instead, pastor Carl chooses to wallow in postmodern mud just like some cheap imitation of Rob Bell.
If We Do Love LGBT People For Whom Christ Died Then We Will Tell Them The Truth
Lentz goes on to share a fable through pious-sounding talk about the way Jesus supposedly did ministry:
You go look at what Jesus did. He was always talkin’ about the heart of an individual, and the soul of a person; not these symptomatic, societal, problems. And people hate that; because a lot of churches are about what they’re against. We’re about what we’re for.
And when it comes to people’s sexuality, I don’t wantna use a public forum, to talk about private things. Because how in the world could you have a dialogue? How in the world can I hear your story? How in the world can someone have a question?
So, if I—if I stand up in a pulpit, and I just start railing at somethin’—or, make a statement in a—in a newspaper about somethin’, I—I believe it’s insensitive to the journey that people are walkin’ on, and our church is gon’ protect people. No matter where you’re from; no matter what you carry; no matter, um, what kind of orientation you feel like is your, um, you know, lane of life to run in—um, you know, I wanna have a conversation about it.
We have a stance on love, and we have conversations about everything else.”16
Now, we’re really not surprised at all to HPL host Ahmed Shihab-Eldin say immediately, “Why—I mean—I love that.” For, it is written — They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them (1 John 4:5) . If you’re a regular reader of Apprising Ministries, you’ll have heard this same lame rhetoric over this past nine years coming from the likes of the unholy Emergent Church trinity of apostates, Living Spiritual Teacher and EC guru Brian McLaren, universalist EC pastor Doug Pagitt, and his friend Dr. Tony Jones, the progressive “theologian in residence” at Solomon’s Porch headed by Pagitt, whom I had mentioned earlier.
You can thank your evangelical publishing houses for infecting this next generation of evangelical cult of celebrity pastors with this emerging kind of centered of the self spirituality. Yes, no doubt this blather plays very well to the postmodern world today; but the fact is, it’s just not true. One need only to look e.g. at Mark 7:1-23 to see what Jesus addressed publicly concerning false religious leaders and about the corrupt heart of mankind. It’s beyond question that the Biblical record shows us that our Lord often used very public forums to talk about things people wish could have been kept private.17
To try and claim that Jesus didn’t publicly address sexual issues is just plain foolish on the part of Carl Lentz. Consider the following from Christ Jesus during his Sermon on the Mount:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” (Matthew 5:27-28)
And there certainly wasn’t any having a conversation with Christ Jesus, the LORD God Almighty in human flesh, when He made such proclamations. Shihab-Eldin next turns conversation with Carl Lentz to the subject homosexuality once again:
Shihab-Eldin: Why—I mean—I love that. And that makes sense to me, because when you say you have a stance on love, and you’re talking about hearts and souls (pause) I often see, you know, people wanna focus on homosexuality and the gay marriage issue—
Lentz: Yeah.
Shihab-Eldin: And whether they should be allowed to get married; and a lot of homosexual couples are looking around saying “I just love this person with all my heart—
Lentz: Yeah.
Shihab-Eldin: And soul, so, I’m looking for some support.
Lentz: Yeah.
Shihab-Eldin: Do you feel like it’s—you’re—you’re not in a position to give them support on that issue; or do you feel like it’s just not your lane?
Lentz: It’s, ah, I dotn’t—it’s not my job to be people’s judge and jury.
Shihab-Eldin: Yeah.
Lentz: If I sat down with a homosexual couple and they ask me what I thought about their relationship, I would tell them, and it would be at their table, and it would be our business. But, their situation’s different than the next situation.18
No, it’s not our job to judge people’s motives; but as I pointed out previously in NYC Hillsong Hipster Pastor Carl Lentz Hedging On Homosexuality, we are to share with people what God has said because it’s His Word which judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart (cf. Hebrews 4:12). Lentz’ last statement sounds so respectful, but in actuality, it really makes no sense. On the one hand Lentz says he’d tell this hypothetical homosexual couple what he thought of their relationship if asked. Fair enough, but what does Lentz mean by “their situation’s different than the next situation?” Is he talking about other types of sinful conduct in general?
If so, that wasn’t the subject of the question Lentz was asked, which has to do with homosexual couples. Or, is he trying to give us the impression that apparently each homosexual relationship is different? Which would then beg the questions: How so? Could one same-sex couple be in sin while another homosexual couple may not be? Here’s what someone in the media needs to ask Carl Lentz to answer plainly, and publicly, on the record: Are you personally gay-affirming? As far as you personally are concerned, are homosexual relations always to be considered as sinful? Let’s just say, I’m not holding my breath.
Lentz continues now with his seeking the approval of the world:
And often people get these two words mixed up: acceptance and approval. Like, I don’t necessarily—if someone comes to my church, I don’t have to approve of every single thing in their life, because that’s not my job. I’m not God. My job is to accept you, as I have been accepted—with everything in my life, God accepted me. So acceptance and approval, we draw a really cool line in there, cuz it’s like, look, I’m not gonna tell you—there’s a lot of people who will come into our church, leave, and go, ‘No thanks. I don’t wanna change my—I don’t wanna live—I don’t wanna believe that.’
And I say, ‘Good for you, that’s your job. You have to answer to God for your life, not me.’ So why is this on me? Some people are always like,”What do you think about homosexuality?” I’m like, “I love my wife. I’m married; you’re asking the wrong guy.” Um, but, that’s just to be funny. But I—I do believe it’s such a—a sensitive issue. I have gay friends. I have, ah, people that I love that are right in the thick of that kind of debate. And I just refuse to, ah, ostracize people any longer, I hate it. I think that there’s been so much hate, and so much bigotry and so much insensitivity, that, um, I’m done with that.
And so, the people who criticize us for it; I li—I like making those people mad. Cuz I—they—they are who they are.19
What’s missing with this topic of a person’s acceptance by God is the repentance and forgiveness of sins in Jesus; the Gospel. Here’s another curious thing; Lentz says, “I’m not gonna tell you—,” as if he was almost going to say, “I’m not going to tell you what to believe.” And yet, he goes on to tell us that “there’s a lot of people who will come into our church, leave, and go, ‘No thanks. I don’t wanna change my—I don’t wanna live—I don’t wanna believe that.’” Well, pastor Carl, where did these people get the idea about changing, or living a certain way, or not wanting to believe certain things? Would it have been from your own preaching at HCNYC?
Remember now, just the other day on Anderson Cooper 360 Poppy Harlow did tell us that:
Some of [Carl Lentz’] positions are clearer than others. Don’t get drunk, no sex before marriage. (source)
Alright, then why doesn’t Lentz make his position concerning homosexuality just as clear? I’ll tell you. He can’t risk offending anyone; and if Lentz does make it clear where he stands on the highly volatile issue of same-sex sexual relations he is sure to offend many. So, we resort to obfuscation, red herrings, and rabbit trails to throw people off. As the clip to follow closes, after Carl Lentz’ little people-pleasing polemic cited above, Ahmed Shihab-Eldin sings the postmodern mantra of today, All You Need Is Love,20 which oddly enough was penned back in 1967:
Shihab-Eldin: And I think if we focus on love, it’ll all fix itself out. If all people just focus on love. I—at least that’s my personal belief. Um, I do wanna—
Lentz: Just so you know, before you go—before you—eh, Jesus said to do two things. He said, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind.” And then He said, number two, “Love your neighbor.”21
As nice as it may sound to say that as long as we focus on love things will all work out, it’s actually a meaningless statement. Whose love; and love of what? Pastor Carl Lentz is correct here; Jesus does tell us that the greatest, i.e. the most important, commandment is — “‘you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength’” (Mark 12:30). However, the only One Who could ever do this is Jesus of Nazareth Himself. And Jesus also added that — “The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these” (Mark 12:31).
That teaching is also consistent with what’s known as the Golden Rule as Christ Jesus teaches us — “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets” (Matthew 7:12). So, pastor Carl, let me ask you: Is not being clear publicly on what the Bible says concerning homosexuality loving your neighbor and treating them as yourself? No, it isn’t. Withholding the truth from precious LGBT souls, for whom Christ died, is what I call homopression;22which is the opposite of homophobia. It is to leave them locked in the prison cell of their sin and not letting them know that Jesus holds the key to unlock their freedom.
No, it’s not unloving to tell someone the truth; you can get in a lot of trouble for doing it, but it’s not unloving. In fact, the true haters in this forum are the ones who refuse to tell the truth to the LGBT community; same-sex sexual relations is a sin of sexual immorality because, as I said earlier, it will always be outside of the marriage covenant instituted by our Creator God, Christ Jesus of Nazareth. These are some of the things you need to keep in mind as you now take a look at the smoke and mirrors show of Carl Lentz as he dodges the rather softball questions of Ahmed Shihab-Eldin below on his HuffPost Liveappearance:
As I close this out, for now, let me say that, just as pastor Carl Lentz has, I also have gay friends. One of whom was actually my boss when I worked quite closely with him in a group home for people who were “developmentally other enabled.” And believe me, he was very out about his sexuality. In fact, we’d often all be joking about it together at the house, with him leading the way. He and I got along great; and he understood that I cared about him as a friend, even though as a Christian I believed his lifestyle was one of sin. As a matter of fact, after I’d left briefly for another position, he even fought to get me back.
After I came back, we were in a car together on the way to accomplish a task; and as he drove along he was complaining to me about another person on the house team that professed to be a Christian, but was always causing grief to everyone around. He finally made a negative comment about “Christians like that person,” and I stopped him and said, “You do know I’m a Christian, right?” The Lord be praised, he said to me with quiet respect, “Yes, but you act like one.” So you see, strictly on a personal level, one’s sexual orientation doesn’t matter to me at all. However, as a Christian, I must never forget that I represent the Lord Jesus Christ
That understood, the problem for people like Bell and Pagitt and Bakker,and maybe even Carl Lentz, is they just don’t really believe what Jesus actually said. My point was pretty clear years ago when I asked the question: But Do Emergence Christianity And Brian McLaren Really Love Gay People? When all their verbose rhetoric fades, the answer is a resounding no, they don’t. If they did, then they’d tell the LGBT community the truth. Rodney King aside, no one ever said we will all get along. In fact, Jesus said He came along and insured that we won’t always:
“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household.”
“Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:34-39)
Well, pastor Carl, today is your day of reckoning:
“Now therefore fear the Lord and serve him in sincerity and in faithfulness. Put away the gods that your fathers served beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” (Joshua 24:14-15)
I leave you now with the following critique of HCNYC pastor Carl Lentz from Christian apologist Chris Rosebrough of Fighting For The Faith, which deals with the huge problem of these cult of celebrity vision-casting prophet pastors presenting a worldy image at the expense of the substance of the Gospel. I think you’ll see that Rosebrough makes a very strong case that Lentz does not meet the qualification to even be a pastor in the first place:
Lentz himself elaborates upon how HCNYC is the advance of Houston’s Word Faith theology into America during his appearance on Katie with Katie Couric, which you can see right in this article itself. ↩
As I explained in Homopression is at Least as bad as Homophobia, the homoppression I refer to here is not telling the truth to someone, claiming to be Christian, who self-identifies as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered (LGBT) and thereby leaving them under oppression in their sin. ↩
Queerstianity: A group of people that supposedly push no political or religious agenda but “share” their philosophy of tolerance and love onto others.” (Source: Urban Dictionary [slightly edited])
Brian Houston of Hillsong Church is slowly grooming his congregation to embrace the false “Gay Christianity” doctrine. To understand why this doctrine is such a blatant attack on the Christian faith please read our article below. We are aware how sensitive this Christian issue is and wish to deal with it respectfully. James White in the below article thoroughly refutes this false teaching.
Like Rick Warren, Brian Houston is a “vision-casting” multi-site prophet-pastor and mentor to what I’ve called an Evangelical Ecumenical Magisterium (EEM).1 This is important for you to know because Brian and Bobbie comprise the Senior Leadership2 of the HC, Australia launch known as Hillsong NYC (HCNYC), where “Pentecostal Powerhouse”3 Carl Lentz is Senior and Lead pastor.
Lentz, the alleged “Apostle of Cool,” is someone you need to be made aware of as:
Lentz co-founded Hillsong NYC with Joel Houston, 33-year-old son of Australian Pentecostal Hillsong Church founders Brian and Bobbie Houston. Together they have led the church, which has become a beacon for young people, for the last 2 1/2 years. (source)
The church is a branch of the popular Australian-based Hillsong Church, the Pentecostal church which draws more than 21,000 weekly to its services. Hillsong is best known for its concert-type settings where they play Christian rock and praise music, which often appeals to a younger demographic of churchgoers. (source)
Perhaps Lentz knows NYC’s other “punk pastor,” the homosexual-affirming Jay Bakker. In any event, as you can see, Carl Lentz has the tightest ties to the ringleaders of the HC mothership. Charisma magazine reporter Gina Meeks also informs us that about a year ago:
Carl Lentz, the unconventional pastor at Hillsong Church NYC, [was] featured in Detailsmagazine’s October issue in an article called “Jesus Christ’s Superstar (The Gospel According to Carl Lentz).”
“With the Lord as his swagger coach, the 34-year-old pastor is turning Hillsong Church in New York City into a Pentecostal powerhouse and a destination for the in crowd,” the story says…
An estimated 5,500 people show up every Sunday to its Irving Plaza location near Manhattan’s Union Square. Lentz, who sports tattoos and a half-shaved head, has been in the spotlight recently, including being the subject of a report from the Associated Press. The hipster pastor is well on his way to being this generation’s Billy Graham.
As the magazine displays in a clever infographic, Lentz has ties with celebrities such as Justin Bieber, NBA superstar Kevin Durant, Jeremy Lin and Vanessa Hudgens. “He is going to be huge,” pastor Priscilla Shirer predicted while she was guest speaking at the church, according to the Details feature. (source)
No doubt “this generation’s Billy Graham” appears to be a star on the rise a la the way former Emerging Church rock star pastor Rob Bell once was. O, and the name Priscilla Shirer should sound familiar to you because—not only is she a close friend of quasi-elder Beth Moore—but like Moore, Shirer also happens to be promoted by Lifeway Resources5 of the Southern Baptist Convention.
Against this backdrop I point you now to the following from the Facebook page of Lentz’ HCNYC where we find out that:
Lord willing, another time we’ll look further at this AC360 segment; but for now, it’s where Carl Lentz hedges concerning where he stands on the issue of the deviant and sinful lifestyle of having sexual relations with another of the same sex, i.e homosexuality, that is my focus here. This is typical of the cult of celebrity megapastor because to grow their little kingdoms they cannot risk offending anyone. Anyone but Jesus, anyway.
For a bit of backstory we go to Christian Post reporter Nicola Menzie and her 12/20/13 report Pastor Carl Lentz Will Not Preach on Sexuality From Pulpit; Refuses to ‘Ostracize People’ where she tells us, concerning Lentz’ view on homosexuality, that he feels it’s not in his job description to be someone’s “Judge and Jury.” You can just hear the applause; but the problem is, it’s not exactly true. As a pastor, it’s Lentz’ job to tell people what God has said, yet apparently in this case he won’t.
It’s God’s Word which judges (cf. Hebrews 4:12); but if he’s not telling people what the Lord has said in Scripture, then people are not going to know. And if Carl Lentz isn’t going to do so, then he needs to stop pretending to be a pastor; stop calling what he does ministry, and just be a full-on entertainer:
As pleasing to the world as what Lentz says sounds, at some point, he would still have to tell those practicing homosexuality they are in sin. Menzie now continues:
Hillsong NYC Pastor Carl Lentz has made it clear that he will not take a public stance on social issues like homosexuality because, as he said during media appearances this week, that is not the example Jesus Christ models in the Bible. (source)
Um, what? I’m not sure what Bible Lentz is reading, but with his people-pleasing postmodern “Gandhi with a beard Jesus,” I’m reminded here of something the late Bible scholar Dr. F.F. Bruce correctly pointed out about the real Christ Jesus of Nazareth:
The fewer preconceptions we bring from the outside to the reading of the Gospels, the more clearly shall we see Him as He really was. It is all too easy to believe in a Jesus Who is largely a construction of our own imagination—an inoffensive Person Whom no one would really trouble to crucify.
But the Jesus we meet in the Gospels, far from being an inoffensive Person, gave offense right and left. Even His loyal followers found Him, at times, thoroughly disconcerting. He upset all established notions of religious propriety.6
During the Hipster segment last night Carl Lentz was asked about issues relating to homosexuality and below is the clip containing his hedging:
Welcome to the wacky world of postmodernism. Remember before that supposedly Lentz doesn’t preach about sexuality, yet the first thing Poppy Harlow tells us about Carl Lentz is, “Some of his positions are clearer than others. Don’t get drunk, no sex before marriage.7 I’d have to say this is good; those positions are the correct ones according to Scripture; no problem there.
So, at HCNYC people are told it’s wrong to have sex before marriage. But wait a minute, I thought Carl Lentz didn’t want to be someone’s judge and jury? Well, it seems to me that he just doesn’t want to address the issue of homosexual relations because he seems to have made heterosexual relations clear enough. As far as LGBT people being welcome in someone’s church, of course we are to welcome people into our churches; that’s a red herring.
Harlow then gets to the point as she says that, “Every article I’ve read about you guys says you decline to discuss gay marriage.” It’s Lentz reply here that I want to zero in on:
Yes, it’s a misquote because I do discuss it, just not the way people want me too. When it comes to homosexuality, I refuse to let another human being or immediate moment dictate how we approach it. Jesus was in the thick of an era where homosexuality, just like it is today was widely prevalent. And I’m still waiting for someone to show me the quote were Jesus addressed it on the record in front of people. You won’t find it because he never did. (source)
We’re mentally off-roading into the postmodern mud again. Which is it Carl; you won’t preach about sexuality, or you do discuss it? The argument Lentz uses re. homosexuality is the same one used by postmodern liberal Emerging Church pastors like the aforementioned Jay Bakker. However, as I once told Bakker, the argument has already been used by the original liberals beginning in the late 1970′s and has long ago been debunked.8
I was truly kind of surprised to hear a “hipster” like the “Apostle of Cool” Carl Lentz, supposedly a mainstream evangelical minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, actually using such a lame argument as: Jesus never spoke about homosexuality. What follows now is really basic Christianity 101. In closing this, permit me pastor Carl, to show you from Scripture—the only “record” that matters—what Jesus Christ our Lord says about having sexual relations with a member of the same sex.
The infallible, inerrant Word of God, the Bible, absolutely addresses homosexuality. For example — You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22). In addition, the Bible also clearly teaches that Jesus of Nazareth is God (cf. John 1:1). By the way Carl, this would be the Jesus “in front of people” you want to talk about. In the Bible God already addressed the issue of homosexuality in the Old Testament (OT); therefore, whatever God says concerning homosexuality in the OT, Jesus—the LORD God Almighty Himself in human flesh—also says concerning homosexuality.
You with me so far pastor Carl? In the New Testament (NT) Christ Jesus tells us God the Holy Spirit would speak for Him (cf. John 16:13-14). The Bible teaches that God does not change (cf. Malachi 3:6); and therefore, Jesus Christ does not change (cf. Hebrews 13:8). The teachings concerning homosexuality spoken by the Vicar of Christ, God the Holy Spirit, in the NT are in complete agreement with those of the OT. For example:
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
Are you going to now get after me for using so-called “clobber verses” here Carl? That’s what someone like Jay Bakker or Rob Bell, who also use the argument you’re using, would do. Even so, let’s look at Romans 1:
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. (Romans 1:24-27)
The absolute Truth is that in Romans chapter one we are informed that the LORD God Almighty’s patience will (and possibly now has) run out concerning issues like this. In verse 26 we read — Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. It should be obvious enough we are being told here that what we will read next would be considered shameful lusts by the Creator.
Now notice that this has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with a particular culture may think, but rather, with what God Himself as Creator judges universally to be shameful lusts. The b part of verse 26 — Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. The logical question that should arise now is: What are these natural relations women exchange here for unnatural ones.
God the Holy Spirit anticipates this question, and then provides our answer through His inspired vessel Paul in Verse 27 — In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. We see then — In the same way as the women the men also abandoned — or exchanged — natural relations with women for unnatural ones. So now from this passage of Scripture we really should understand that according to the created order, the LORD God Almighty—the very Creator of the universe Himself—has in fact defined “natural” sexual relations to be that which occurs between one man with one woman after marriage.
As a result therefore, the Bible then defines sexual activity between members of the same sex as being “unnatural.” And this is also reinforced in the b part of verse 27 — Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Now we can put all of this together and come to the realization that, according to Holy Scripture, God refers to sexual relations between members of the same sex as shameful lusts. Homosexuality is also said to be abandoning natural relations and being inflamed with lust (a sin in and of itself) for a member of one’s own sex.
Verse 27 lists this among indecent acts and clearly refers to homosexuality as perversion. There is just no way around what these texts are saying because this passage of the Bible concerns proper sexual conduct for men and women—period. Further, this is part of the created order itself, and so it would apply to all mankind regardless of the cultural mores of any generation. Finally pastor Carl, as I recently pointed out in Jesus Already Defined marriage For His Creation, Christ is actually speaking below from the perspective of an eyewitness when He quite clearly defines His marriage covenant for us:
And Pharisees came up to Him and tested Him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that He Who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” (Matthew 19:3-7)
It’s patently obvious that Jesus has just defined marriage as a male [man] to a female [woman], which is exactly how it was understood when it was spoken by Christ “on the record in front of people.” So based upon what Jesus has just said, from a Biblical standpoint, we see that any homosexual activity will always be outside of the marriage covenant, As such then, homosexual relations are to be considered among the sins sexual immorality from which God has told us we are to flee (cf. 1 Corinthians 6:18).
Pastor Carl, you should be able to see that there’s no way around this; at least for one who holds the Bible as the inerrant and infallible Word of God, and to the Deity of Christ. The LORD God has spoken in both the OT and the NT condemning the practice of homosexuality as sin. And you simply cannot separate God the Father and God the Son on this issue. Jesus did address sexual immorality, which includes homosexuality, and He most likely felt that as God He didn’t stutter the first time in the OT, and so, His view was already clear enough for the NT.
So there you go pastor Carl, on the record: God the Father, God the Son, Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit, all condemn sexual relations with a member of the same sex as sin. It’s really not that hard, if you know the Word of God. This is what God has said; and it doesn’t matter at all what the professing Christian or the unbeliever feels about this. As Christians we must love precious LGBT souls, for whom Christ died, enough to tell them the truth.
Pastor Carl, it is not unloving to tell someone the truth; however, it is actually hateful to withhold it from them.
James MacDonald, co-host of the ignominious Elephant Room (ER) conferences along with New Calvinist Mark Driscoll have used these ER conferences as the source of what appears to me to be a new emerging self-appointed EEM. This EEM is comprised of multi-site megachurch prophet-pastors who participated in ER as well as some of those who pioneered this Seeker Driven phenomenon such as Rick Warren and Craig Groeschel. ↩
Source: By Ken Silva, NYC HILLSONG HIPSTER PASTOR CARL LENTZ HEDGING ON HOMOSEXUALITY, Apprising, http://apprising.org/2014/06/04/nyc-hillsong-hipster-pastor-carl-lentz-hedging-on-homosexuality/, 04/06/2014. (Accessed 06/06/2014.)
We wish to highlight what James White recently said on his show titled ‘Seer Stones, Hillsong Church, and KJVOnly Deceitfulness’:
Below the video, you can read:
If Carl is protesting to James White “that it was a combination of [him] not speaking clearly enough and them not following up with what [he] said afterward where [he] said those things,” then why has he supposedly uploaded this video on his own YouTube channel?
Now that he is being rightly condemned as being “ignorant” or “deceitful” by using that argument in the report, both Lentz and Houston are now defaulting to their typical defamation statements against the media, that being that they were taken out of context or misrepresented.
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