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We found this article from Diakrisis to be a decent summary of the Hillsong movement. Some information about Geoff Bullock’s involvement with the movement has been corrected accordingly. It is important to retain the story of Pat Mesiti’s involvements and restoration process in this article. We will be looking at his involvement between the Hillsong and the C3 churches.
We hope you find the below information insightful.
The Hillsong Phenomena Revisited
Increasingly we are being asked ‘should we be encouraging people to attend Hillsong events or sing their songs in our churches?’ The answers lie in the foundations, theology and now the fruit of this ever-growing movement.
The Foundations
In 1986 husband and wife team, Mark and Darlene Zsech, along with a Pastor Pat Mesiti were leaders in a ‘band’ that outreached to high schools. (Mesiti founded Youth Alive and in later years was Executive Director of Teen Challenge NSW and National Director of the Australian Christian Churches). During those early years the Zsech’s were introduced to Brian and Bobbie Houston’s Christian Life Centre in the Hills district, Sydney (an offshoot of CLC Darlinghurst, Sydney). There a Geoff Bullock was the director of the music ministry. They combined writing and singing talents and ‘Hillsong’ was born. The music gained great acceptance with young people and then in an increasing number of churches throughout Australia. Today there are few churches that have not adopted some Hillsong Music.
In the early nineties Geoff Bullock [left Hillsong]. Darlene Zsech took over his position as ‘worship leader’ at the Hills CLC.
In an interview in May 2006, more than a decade after the event, Bullock claims ‘they stole my soul’. The interviewer, Jennifer Sexton, of the Australian, wrote:
‘Christmas Eve 1994 was the end for Bullock. He had rehearsed the choir and band to play the standard church repertoire for three Christmas services. Just hours before the first service, Houston discovered Bullock had not rehearsed traditional Christmas carols. ‘He just tore me to shreds and then left me to do three services’, Bullock claims. The partnership ended that night…Bullock claims that when he departed, a campaign of whispering about his morality and sexuality filtered throughout the church. When he broke up with Janine a few months later, his subsequent relationship with a married woman (whom he later married)
was, he says, twisted to become the reason he had been forced out. At the same time, Houston preached about dark forces intent on undermining the church. ‘They ran a huge campaign to discredit me’, fumes Bullock’. (1)
The problems for Hillsong continued – in 2002 Pastor Pat Mesiti was asked to leave the ministry during a highly publicised exposure of his adultery. Brian Houston, Hillsong’s senior pastor, at the time said, ‘This whole area of sex abuse and predatory behaviour is devastating…’ (2) But Mesiti is only one of many in such organisations as Hillsong and Youth Alive who have fallen. In an interview with the Sydney Morning Herald newspaper Brian Houston admitted to disciplining up to five of his pastors each year for sexual misconduct.
In less than three years Mesiti was back in ministry being advertised as a motivational speaker. Today he tells thousands that gaining money and fame is a Godly pursuit.
The formation of the Assemblies of God (AOG) Christian Life Centre movement, where Hillsong originated, was arguably formed in deceitful circumstances. Letters issued by AOG New Zealand (21/12/01, Wayne Hughes, General Superintendent) and AOG Australia (24/12/01, John Lewis Assistant President) disclose that Frank Houston, formerly head of CLC Sydney, was disciplined in 1999 for ‘serious sexual offences’ (NZ letter) that occurred 30 years ago. At least one offence was against a teenage boy. Frank denied the charges for more than 20 years before admitting his guilt. The New Zealand letter banned Frank Houston from AOG platforms in that country. While the matter of Houston’s fall was known in 1999 it had only been openly acknowledged by the AOG at the time when Pat Mesiti’s moral fall was publicised.
In 1977 Frank Houston moved permanently to Australia from New Zealand. . . The problems in New Zealand, the sexual offences and charges of paedophilia
were not made known to the ever increasing number of his congregants. In 2002 after having risen to prominence in the Australian AOG, this information surfaced and was openly reported. It was left to his son, Brian Houston, by now the National Superintendent of AOG, to publicly discipline his father and relieve him of his duties. (3)
What Do They Teach?
Hills Christian Life Centre is known by many as ‘Hillsong’, as the music being produced and recorded there has developed into a great commercial success. The theology emanating from this Pentecostal movement is also unashamedly ‘Word of Faith’ and ‘Prosperity’ teaching.
‘Word of Faith’ was initially founded by Kenneth Hagin and propagated by Kenneth and Gloria Copeland. These people are demonstrably false teachers and false prophets.
The false teaching includes heretical teaching on the Deity of Christ and the Atonement. (4) The false prophecies of these leaders are too numerous to mention in this short article but documentation of many of them are freely available. (5) The Word of Faith ‘jesus’ is manipulated by a force of faith contained in words to give healing, money and success. Its leaders, (Copeland, Hagin, Joyce Meyers, etc), many who have been speakers at Hillsong, teach that their jesus went to hell and was tormented by demons for three days as part of the atonement. They also confuse or deny the deity of Jesus while on earth. Of course they may not teach these things while speaking at Conferences such as those held at Hillsong but they nevertheless have taught these things in their books and audio tapes.
As head of Hillsong, Brian Houston also teaches a full blown ‘prosperity’ doctrine that holds to the belief that God is willing to be controlled into blessing His people with large amounts of money commensurate to their giving. (6) His sermons spend much time in teaching a ‘giving to receive’ theology. The outcome of this is great accumulation of wealth amongst the leaders and thus Hillsong has become a multi-million dollar enterprise.
There is no doubt that Hillsong (or the attendees that give the money?), perform many good deeds. The church has numerous charitable ministries such as Mercy Ministries, (a home established by Hillsong’s Darlene Zschech for pregnant girls or those with eating disorders) and Hillsong Emerge – to help people find jobs and recover from addictions. Thousands of children in Uganda are also sponsored; and Hillsong gave $500,000 to victims of the 2004 Boxing Day tsunami.
On the negative side – Hillsong Emerge has been accused in Federal and State parliaments of misappropriating millions of dollars worth of Commonwealth grants. Also Houston failed to declare that he and his wife Bobbie had sold some personal property holdings to a Hillsong’s Leadership Ministries Incorporated (LMI), of which Brian is a director. LMI is the tax-free entity Hillsong set up to help pay the Houstons’ income. In breach of Office of Fair Trading reporting rules, no financial statements had been lodged since its inception in October 2001. Only after the property deals were uncovered by The Australian were the accounts filed in August 2005. The Houston’s incomes did not show how they as a family could afford property worth $1.738 million over 12 months. (7)
At Hillsong much time is spent on teaching about prosperity and giving. Brian wrote and published a best selling book titled . . . [Why You Need More Money]. As the money buckets are passed around at each meeting, the audiences are informed that credit card facilities are available, and cheques should be made out to Hillsong. The Australian wrote: ‘The buckets have holes in the bottom, presumably to discourage parishioners from giving coins…[But] the rivers of cash keep flowing: donations and salary tithes to Hillsong were $15.3 million in 2004; merchandise, CDs, books and DVDs, returned a further $6.93 million, while total church revenue has now passed the $50 million mark – all tax-free thanks to Hillsong’s charitable status. The message of Hillsong’s prosperity gospel is: the richer you are, the more you can help others’. (8)
Hillsong has become a platform for a wide range of ecumenical church leaders, faith healers and prosperity teachers, many who are heretical and false prophets. The wide scope was evident at a recent Conference (July/2006) when neo-evangelical Rick Warren took the stage, and was followed by radical Pentecostal Reinhard Bonnke, sharing the same event with his blazen display of ‘tongues’, prophecies and healings. At this Conference Bonnke ‘promised married couples who were barren that they would be holding their own baby in their arms in nine months time. He promised cures for cancer, for people with damage to their spines, and those suffering from rheumatoid arthritis. He asked us to stand and place our hands on the parts of the body where we were sick or on the top of our own heads, and promised that we were healed and that our life spans were returned to normal. The fact that he himself wore glasses at all times before, during and after these sessions seemed to matter little to him or the audience’. (9)
This same evangelist has fraudulently claimed to raise people from the dead and healed thousands. Investigations by various ministries and by Christian doctors have exposed this man as a signs and wonders fraud. (10) Then there is Darlene Zsech, who no doubt is an attractive and dynamic song leader, singer and motivator for Hillsong.
However, her presentation has been described by one Christian magazine as ‘sentimental, incoherent, and rather light on content – that it was all anecdote, misquoted Bible verses, oversharing and assertion…’ (11) This quote sums
up much of Hillsong teaching which majors on topical sermons with a shotgun approach to the use of scripture.
Very often the scriptures used simply do not convey what the preacher is emphasising. The pre-sermon repetitive beat music also minimises the level of discernment of the hearers. The music captures hearts and emotions well, but
does not well prepare the mind to discern truth from error. We in this ministry are increasingly noticing youth who are copying this Hillsong style of presentation and whose speech is fast, erratic and jumping from one thought to another. This ‘hype’ of Hillsong may have youth jumping and proclaiming ‘jesus’ but where is the depth that is needed when the tribulations and trials of this life hit home?
The lack of a doctrinal base is worthy of serious consideration! Such doctrines as the Cross, the Blood, the Judgement of God, the Sinfulness of Man, the pursuit of Holiness (and thus Separation) and the systematic exposition of the Scriptures – all these are hardly evident in Hillsong. When sin is spoken of, and this is not often, it is spoken in psychological terms such as negative thinking and attitudes that destroy God’s purpose in our lives, and limit our potential. There is little or no message that sinful humanity is under God’s wrath and condemnation because of our personal rebellion against Him. Hillsong’s doctrinal foundation does not allow for the Biblical connection between sin, death and judgement. One writer who went to the 2006 Conference stated: ‘…not a single example was found expounding Jesus’ death as taking the penalty for sin on our behalf so that we might avoid God’s wrath on judgement day…They do not proclaim Jesus death as a substitutionary atonement, turning aside God’s wrath so that I can receive forgiveness and be saved on the day of judgement. The Gospel is not preached. Its content is not expounded. Its great terms and concept are not taught or explained. Whatever is driving the bus, it’s not the Gospel’. (12)
The Music – Is There a Link?
Is there a link between the Hillsong music and the sinful lifestyles and aberrant doctrine amongst the leaders? We have always been sure there is. There is a rising tide of voices expressing concern over a rebellious attitude reigning in many of our youth who frequent such events as Youth Alive, Hillsong and other Contemporary Christian music events. Australia’s youth in general are already rebellious, self-centred and hate authority. Rock music reflects and fosters this rebellion. Hillsong ‘worship’ services at times resemble a nightclub and the sensuality displayed from the platform is hardly Godly and holy. Many of the lyrics are about ‘us’ and not God and promote a worldly ‘love affair’ with Jesus. The ‘mosh pit’ at the foot of the stage of some events would do credit to a Jimmy Barnes concert. Any ‘gospel’ that might be preached at these events is nullified by the effect of the emotional and worldly music which affects the flesh.
Just how close the music and the performances of Hillsong Conferences are to the world is illustrated by this testimony: ‘The sound hits you like a wave. The bass is throbbing. The drums kick through your diaphragm with each beat. The guitars thrum and swell. The lead singer is a good looking guy with unkept hair and stubble. He stands arms raised, head thrown back. The crowd moves and sways like a rippling sea. We roar. We sing. We stomp. Two guys stand next to me in leather jackets and dreadlocks, repeatedly pumping the air with their fists. They look at each other, and one mouths the word, ‘awesome!’. Loudspeakers flank the stage and rise up above the crowd in curved banks. Images flash and morph in sync with the music on billboard sized video screens. As each verse of the song leads towards the anthemic chorus, the momentum builds. The rhythm drives us forward. The chorus arrives in a rush of sound, and sweeps us on. The singer holds his mike towards us and gets us to sing. We belt it out. The year is 1988 and U2 is wowing them at the Sydney Entertainment Centre. Bono is on stage telling us how much he loves this town…[Now] Almost every detail is the same, except that the lead [Hillsong] singer is saying how much he loves Jesus…[this] at the Hillsong conference at Sydney…’ (13)
There is clearly a lack of distinction from the world, (Rom.12:2; Eph.2:2; 1Jn.2; James 4:4). We would challenge anyone to listen to the music, watch the performers and read the lyrics of Hillsong music and honestly say that it does not mimic the beat, the fashions and even the thinking of this world. If that is not evident to Christians who would read this, then why is it that the secular world sees Hillsong ever so clearly as their own, as is shown in the following quotes?:
‘Every weekend at Hillsong churches in Sydney 19,000 people sing, clap and jump through a two-hour tribute to a God who rocks’ (Jennifer Sexton, senior writer The Australian) (14)
‘…Most people attending, and everyone appearing at the conference, looked irredeemably ‘hip’. The young Asian woman in front of me in Bonnets workshop actually wore a clinging, rather revealing outfit as did many of her fellow delegates…she nodded approvingly as Bonnet said he would happily borrow from Kylie Minogue’s latest CD cover for ideas on how to promote Hillsong’s Darlene Zschech, the music pastor whose Christian rock CD’s have sold more than five million copies worldwide…A men only workshop did hear about how men need to control their sex drive and that masturbation is the first step to sexual dysfunction, but most of the presentations were…not especially heavy on theology either. Instead they tended to be of the motivational, self help, ‘Seven Habits of Highly Effective People’ type, as easily applicable to those building an environmental organization as to a church…’ (Weekend Australian, 9/10 July, 2005).
It is sad that the secular world sees Hillsong as it really is and often describes it accurately, yet Christians are blind as to just how much Hillsong is of the world! Sadly in many things ‘…the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light’, (Lk.16:8).
Paul put no emphasis on worldly methods but on the power of the message itself, (1Cor.2:1,4; 1Thess.2:3-5). We in this ministry are not against all ‘charismatic’ or lively music, such as ‘choruses’ that present sound doctrinal lyrics. However, when the rhythm dominates the music, when the noise level is so loud as to drown out voices, (is God deaf?), and when it becomes sensual, fleshly, repetitive (hypnotic) and worldly, then the line between flesh and spirit has surely been crossed! Yes, such organisations as Youth Alive, Planet Shakers and Hillsong will bring in the numbers and many will make ‘decisions’. However, these ‘results’ do not prove anything! Our music and our youth meetings should be distinct from rock music and the ways of the world. They should be holy and uncompromised.
Some years ago the Christians in the Soviet Union issued a plea to the west: ‘…freedom is bringing another great harm to our churches. This damage is coming from Christians who are sending rock music and evangelists accompanied by rock bands…We are embarrassed by this image of Christianity…We abhor all Christian Rock music…it is true that rock music attracts people to church but not to Godly living…do not desecrate our teenagers with it. Even the unbelievers recognise it is unholy music and they cannot understand how American Christians can be so much like the world. We call this music from hell.’ (15)
Godly music is predominately melody with minimal beat or at least beat that does not override the melody – this music feeds the spirit; but Hillsong emphasizes the rhythmic beat, which will naturally lean more towards the flesh. (16)
With the music there is too an ‘image’ that is portrayed by Hillsong and its performers. Many believe there is an overt sexuality. This is well underscored by the teachings of ‘Pastor’ Bobbie Houston. Her three audio tape series ‘Kingdom Women Love Sex’ (later renamed ‘She Loves and Values Her Sexuality’) have been popular in the largest Christian bookstores. These teachings set out to explain why she feels Christians should be good at ‘it’. Such things as ‘pelvic floor exercises’ and ‘orgasms’ are discussed.
Those who carry too much weight to be attractive she sees as ‘retards’. She says: ‘We need to be good at sex ourselves so that if the world happens to come knocking we can tell the story of God in our lives,’ Bobbie says, on the tape.
‘Without being lurid or untruthful – hello! – we can say [she whispers], ‘I have a great marriage and a great sex life’ – wink wink, nudge nudge. Yeah, truly.’ Bobbie also offers some practical advice. Fat is out… ‘If I carry weight I feel like a retard…How are you going to do anything to surprise your man when you need a hydraulic crane just to turn over in bed?’ Have plastic surgery, if it makes you feel better and it is for the right reasons, and ‘girls, pelvic floor exercises – can you believe I am saying this? – you know, I have heard that orgasm is not as strong if you are really sloppy in that area’.
The primary market targeted for the Hillsong merchandise and concerts is our precious youth. On questioning a group of young people who attend Hillsong,
the unanimous answer to our question ‘How did you become involved in this Church?’ was – ‘the music!’. The authors have personally met non Christians who frequent Hillsong events because of the music and entertainment factor alone.
The most frightening thing about what Christians think of Hillsong is that many simply do not see the music as pandering to the world or the flesh. The doctrine is accepted as it stands – a toxic mixture of truth and error. One only has to listen to their CD’s or read the lyrics to discern that much of the music and the live performances are so close to the world and far from ‘holy’. Again, the proof of this is that many of their recordings reach the top of secular charts and are regularly advertised on commercial radio and television. One observer at the 2006 Conference stated: ‘Of the two hours or so each of the 14 rallies throughout the week, around half the time was a rock concert, led by Darlene and an array of special guest singers…The crowd seems to thrive on it. As each rally opened, an impromptu mosh pit would form at the front’ (17)
One reader wrote to us about such a typical Conference and highlighted the need for discernment: ‘I was attending a four day ‘Planet Shakers’ Conference in Adelaide with my church’s youth group, eager to learn more about God and to grow in my relationship with Him. At first, the conference seemed to be like many of the Christian functions that I had attended in the past: loud music, dynamic preachers and young Christians like me coming together to worship Jesus. However, as the conference progressed I began to notice certain things that didn’t ‘sit right’ with me. I noticed, for instance, that there was a nightly half-hour ‘sermon’ emphasizing the importance of giving as a primary means of obtaining material blessing from God….the worship was unashamedly ecstatic and repetitive, and there were altar calls and mass ‘conversions’ or ‘healings’ in nearly every session. Even more unbelievable, though, was the attitude of the conference’s director, Russell Evans: at one stage he said that he could ‘demonstrate the power of the Holy Spirit’ simply by throwing a towel at someone who would subsequently fall over! I was shocked at this outright blasphemy, but I was even more shocked at the response I got from my youth pastor, who, when told of my concern, said that Planet Shakers was a ‘perfectly normal Pentecostal conference’ and that I should just ‘chew the meat and spit out the bones’. I was also deeply concerned about the fact that I was the only one out of my entire youth group who had a negative experience of the conference! In fact, I was so distressed about being the only one that I no longer felt like a part of the group, and as a result I began to question my faith. Did I really know who God was? If this was the one true God, then why did I suddenly feel so distant from Him? Why did I no longer want to worship Him? It was at this point that I decided to search for the truth: I took a break from church and began to earnestly pray and study the Word of God for myself. However, I was still pretty upset by the Planet Shakers experience, and so found this to be incredibly difficult: so much so that I came dangerously close to giving up on the faith altogether. The only thing that gave me hope was, in fact, an http://tape testimony from your ministry of being delivered from the movement…I identified with so many of the things mentioned, and was relieved to find that there was someone else out there who felt the same way. You confirmed my suspicions about the movement…I worked up the courage to leave the offending church, which I now realise is deeply involved in both extra-biblical revelation and the ecumenical movement. I am currently seeking a new church…I admit my reluctance in committing for fear of being contaminated by false doctrine all over again…’ (18)
Many readers might say of Hillsong music that ‘some songs are OK’. But is this to accept ‘leaven’ in the lump of truth about which Scripture has much to say? ‘Leaven’ is a New Testament symbol of sin and error, (Matt.16:12). Paul warns: ‘…Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened…the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth’, (1Cor.5:6-8).
Why is the church seeking to ape the world? The very word ‘church’ comes from the Greek word ‘ekklesia’ which means to be ‘called out’ of the world. Why does the world increasingly love the music being played in many churches today? Why are many Christian singers recently making it big time on the world’s music charts and being signed up to the world’s best secular record companies?
In the middle of the 20th Century, Tozer wrote: ‘Religious entertainment is in many places rapidly crowding out the serious things of God. Many churches have become little more than poor theatres’. When Tozer wrote this the entertainment factor in churches had only just become noticeable on a broad scale. Would Tozer be able today to tell the difference between the world and the church?
Should we sing Hillsong songs? Do we not promote Hillsong in some measure when we sing their songs? Does not Hillsong benefit financially when we do so? Is not the music the entry point into Hillsong’s aberrant philosophy, doctrine and teachings? Do we not compromise God’s theology when we sing the songs? Is it not enough that the fruit of Hillsong has been adultery, sexual deviancies, broken marriages, thousands of spurious conversions, making merchandise of their hearers and false doctrinal teaching? How can we willingly allow our children or ourselves to attend these events such as Hillsong?
Hillsong is taking our youth and the church closer to the world and Rome with it’s thinking and methods. Brian Houston recently spoken at a US conference at Robert Schuller’s apostasy riddled church – and shared the platform with Roman Catholic priests speaking there. The church is called to be separate, holy and ‘the pillar and ground of truth’, (1Tim.3:15). We urge parents, teachers, Pastor/ Elders and readers to stand against Hillsong where necessary.
This article will be seen by many as ‘blunt’, ‘unloving’ and ‘judgmental’. It is indeed one of our strongest articles to date. But it is time to publicly warn people of a movement that at best is shallow ‘feel good’ Christianity and at worst a movement that is taking the church into grave apostasy and ecumenism. Hillsong has degraded moral standards, it has changed the face of Christian music and presented songs that barely have any sound doctrine in them, it has altered the attitudes of our youth and it is a melting pot of false teaching and false prophecies.
The ‘jesus’ that Hillsong presents is not the Jesus of the Bible. He does not teach, as Hillsong does, that miracles will be the forerunner of a world wide end time revival; or that unknown ‘tongues’ is the evidence of the ‘Baptism with the Spirit’, (Hillsong adheres to this error as an Assembly of God church).
The ecumenical jesus that Hillsong encourages focuses on love and avoids truth, doctrine, sin and the wrath of God – all vital ingredients of the gospel. The ecumenical jesus is into union at the expense of truth. It says Catholicism is Christian and counts ‘decisions’ as salvation. But the real Jesus is non-negotiable on holiness and separation from the world, sin and error. He does not accept mixtures (‘leaven’) or false teachers and prophets.
The real Jesus teaches us to ‘present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God’, (Rom.12:1,2).
Terry Arnold & Mike Claydon
(1) http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/04/high-cost-of-faith/
(2) Kelly Burke, ‘Religious Affairs’ Writer Sydney Morning Herald, P.8, March 27/2002
(3) Diakrisis Australia, May/June 2002; Sydney Morning Herald 27 March 2002 (4) See our papers ‘Word Faith Movement – A Closer Look’ and…
(5) ‘False Prophecies, Revelations and Teachings’
(6) Diakrisis Australia, May/June 2003, P.9,10)
(7) http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/04/high-cost-of-faith/
(8) Jennifer Sexton, senior writer, The Australian. http://
http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/04/high-cost-of-faith/
(9) ‘The Briefing’, Jan/2007, P.13 (10) Diakrisis Australia, various articles
free on request (11) ‘The Briefing’, Jan/2007, P.11 (12) Ibid P.16
(13) Ibid P.11
(14) http://www.signposts.org.au/2006/05/04/highcost-of-faith/
(15) Peters & Rychuk, Unregistered Union of churches, Moscow, Nov/91
(16) For the effect of music on the body & mind see Diakrisis Australia June/98; May/June 2001
(17) ‘The Briefing’, Jan/ 2007
(18) Diakrisis Australia, Sept-Oct/2003, P.7
From: Diakrisis, http://taministries.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/NL2007-0506.pdf. Backup: https://hillsongchurchwatch.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/nl2007-0506.pdf. Accessed 19/11/2012.
NOTE: SCREEN GRAB TAKEN ON THE 21/11/2012.
Hillsong Church Watch 
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Hillsong rules man! If you are a true believer not a religious observer you will know the truth and the truth will set you free John 8:32 the songs are all Biblical tells you about the gospel, so listen up critics and “get saved!”
Dudee nobody’s perfect. I’m sure you’ve had lust EVERYONE HAS SINNED only JESUS is Holy (plus God and His holy angels), and Hillsong crew and staff are CLEARLY messed up dudes who are struggling in sin BUT are trying to GLORIFY GOD thru music. I mean, listen to the beat, the lyrics of their music. We aren’t focusing on people behind the music. Its the meat.. The message of the song is whats totally important. God’s being glorified! Ur not perfect either, nuff said!
If you think God is the one being glorified in Hillsong “worship” think again.
Music as a method of manipulating emotion is not limited to rock. The genre is irrelevant. Even in very conservative, traditional services there is a clear manipulative pattern: opening song is lively and fast; next song nearly the same. Then there are announcements and greetings, followed by a prayer. Then comes a more mellow song or two, then a choir/band song in a very meditative and subdued style. Now the audience is open to suggestion, which the preacher ably supplies. Afterwards, a begging, pleading, whiny prayer, then 5,000 verses of “Just As I Am”. Another prayer, then the band/keyboard player plays something lively to get the crowd out of the trance. Am I right?
It is becoming more common, thanks to false organisations like Hillsong, that “very conservative, traditional services” are being pressured or convinced to do music like Hillsong. However, the very conservative churches should generally be holding themselves to singing the scriptures and the hymns.
The point of Christian music is to sing the scriptures so we may know His Word. Not so with places like Hillsong. They have hi-jacked worship and made it so worldly that we don’t understand what worship is anymore.
First I would like to make clear, I do not belong to Hillsong church.
Secondly, I don’t know how I stumbled upon this aweful blog, but unfortunately I have. I do not understand how people can be so narrow minded and to write something so one sided and misinformed is brainwashing. There was a statement released by Brian Houston on Facebook and I’m assuming other places, outlining all money related matters with their church and with their own personal money. He even stated the exact amount he is paid per year and how much he earns outside of the church from book sales, etc. nothing to hide here.
As a Christian how can you not believe in tithes and offering? This is very confusing? Hillsong preach, from services and conferences and books I’ve read, about the basic principal of sowing and reaping. As far as I’m aware this is not just a Hillsong thing. I’ve been involved in A Uniting church, Anglican and Baptist church, they all talk about this.
Who are you and others to say what is “godly music” and what is not? Does it say in the bible you must only sing one particular type of music in a particular cord and on a particular instrument? I remember reading things like, sing to The Lord a new song, and how David danced naked before The Lord (not that Hillsong do this), and so on. I do not understand how you can say their songs are all about ‘me’ and ‘us’. Their songs about ‘me’ mostly talk about how He found us in our sin and shame and redeemed us by grace, their songs about us are edifying the church and then there are songs of praise and worship to God alone.
Aside from defending Hillsong which I don’t believe I need to do, God is using them way to powerfully, all I can see as fruit from this blog is to cause division and judgement, inspire hate, doubt and gossip. This is no better than ‘A Current Affair’.
What about Love, I think Jesus is coming back for His bride, not a denomination. How very sad he would be, to see us slinging mud at each other? How are we as Christians suppose to reach the lost when we can’t even realise that as long as we are in agreeance with core teachinga of jesus that peole are going to inturprut things differently. Remember Jesus first found us in our sin, and he loved us enough to die for us. Maybe you should redirect your attention to the lost, a much more worthy use of your time.
Thanks for your great comment Michelle, you really said a mouthful. The guy who wrote this article is sadly the one who needs help. Am amazed at how some people “feel” they’re called of God to “expose deception and error”, while they themselves don’t see how much help they need. This is the Pharasaical spirit that exposed and shamed the woman caught in adultery, by going on a public platform and unashamadely “exposing” Hillsong’s so called error is no different to what those Pharisees did. Jesus’ command to us is to respond and walk in love to fellow humans, but if a so called “believer” can bash and mudsling other believers then you begin to wonder what spirit they’re. Our response should be to always go to God in prayer and not bash people. God doesn’t need help in exposing “error” and that’s the reason we have the Holy Spirit. My advice to you my brother, rather focus on running your race and being what and who Jesus saved you to be instead of “your ministry”, that way you’ll have peace. Blessings 🙂
Thanks for your contribution Michelle; your words really do underscore how pertinent is the prohibition against women teaching in churches.
Yes it would be aweful if a woman disagreed with your verbal diarrhea.
Im so sorry i had to see that comment to you Michelle from ‘zorro’. Im horrified.
Classic, Michelle!
I take it, Zorro, that the women in your church have to be silent. Are you the enforcer of this rule? It’s not happening for you here!
Do they also have to wear head coverings? Sit in a women’s section? Do your wife, mother and daughters reverently ask you questions after the meetings they have to sit in silence through to clarify doctrine? I can just see you at McDonalds’ after church holding court with the women! Very Presbyterian!
boatrocker,
5,000 verses of ‘Just as I Am’!
‘Just as I am’? Do you still sing that one in your church, Zorro, as boatrockersuggests?
Hillsong, contrary to the sentiment here, have written some of the great hymns of recent years, from Geoff Bullock to Darlene Szchech and a few others. Some of their material is bland on the ear at times, and I’m not a huge fan, but, in the midst of the mediocre are some wonderful songs which certainly do glorify the Lord. ‘This is my desire’? ‘Shout to the Lord’?
I Can’t understand the reticence to give credit where it’s due, and praise God for people who write for us so we can praise God. it just seems so petty, really.
You wouldn’t be an aspiring worship leader, would you, churchwatcher?
So you want to talk about women who presume to preach, Ethel? That’s fine with me.
Would you care to tell us if you think Christine Pringle’s doctrine is orthodox?
Zorro,
Concerning women teaching in the church, are you unfamiliar with Romans? It has often been referred to as Paul’s magnum opus. This epistle was carried to Rome by Phoebe (Romans 16:1), a deaconess from Cenchreae – a harbour near Corinth (so she would have been familiar with 1 Corinthians). If women were not allowed to teach in the church, then why would Paul entrust the communication of Romans to a wealthy woman (16:2)? Surely there had to be a man who could read that Paul could have relied upon to address the Roman house churches, but instead he chose a woman. Paul knew what he wrote in 1 Corinthians, so clearly it wasn’t intended to be applied in all churches, at all times. If it was intended to be universally applied, then Paul wasn’t giving much of an example to imitate.
Moreover, Romans 16:7 mentions that Junia, a Jewess, is an apostle (the ESV is NOT literal in its translation at this point – sadly Wayne Grudem added his own spin). In verse 3 Prisca is mentioned before her husband, as she is in much of Acts. [Luke intentionally reverses patriarchal customs. When he first introduces the couple he mentions Aquila first, but thereafter, in order to show leadership roles, he always mentions Prisca first.]
And finally, all the gospels reveal that it was the women who first encountered the risen Jesus. And the women who first proclaimed that Jesus was risen from the dead, but the men did not believe. On the Emmaus road, Jesus points out that the fault was with the men and their lack of faith (Luke 24:22-27).
Therefore, as a Bible believing and Bible affirming Christian, your ideas about the roles of women in the church ought to include the full tension which is evident in scripture. You owe it to Jesus, to be faithful to His word.
Blessing in Christ,
Josiah
Churchwatcher,
I’ve only stumbled onto this blog today but it has been worthwhile. Thank you for an informative history of a movement growing in influence globally.
I’ve never attended Hillsong personally (family members have) but I have sat through Hillsong messages on TBN. And the general pattern is evident enough, ‘Jesus’ is referenced in order to worship Mammon.
I think that some of the issues raised in this piece detract from the impact that this blog could otherwise have. I don’t mean to be harsh but you seem to be unnecessarily burning bridges. There are a number of doctrinal issues which we can agree to disagree about. But by placing these issues front and centre, you are distracting people from the oddity that is Mammon worship, and instead causing people to focus on the specificities of a particular reformed brand.
Correct me if you disagree but the standard line among calvinists regarding the pre-reformation church is that Christians were saved in spite of the governing structures and not because of them? From which it follows that today there are still Christians attending Catholic churches. It’s easy to make excuses to the effect that if they really were Christians, then they would leave the Catholic church. But in the present case, you may be surprised by how many Catholics would agree with you that the Word of Faith movement has more in common with gnosticism than with Christianity (recall that the gnostic gospels unashamedly talk about ‘Jesus’ and his ‘teachings’). Yet neither Catholics nor the Reformed, nor the rest of us, have manged to convince those naïve Christians who chose to attend churches like Hillsong, or its copycats, that the Word of Faith movement is preaching another ‘Jesus’.
Attacking forms of music won’t win you any friends. Their are calvinist artists who compose similar music (beat, tempo, etc). Granted, their lyrics actually have something to say. Anecdotally, before I became a Christian I saw an episode of South Park in which they were mocking the whole contemporary Christian music scene, they were taking love songs and replacing ‘babe’ or ‘baby’ with ‘Jesus’. Hillsong are not the originators of the ‘Jesus is my boyfriend’ swoon scene, they’ve just managed to turn it into a million dollar industry.
Blessing in Christ,
Josiah
To Josiah,
“I think that some of the issues raised in this piece detract from the impact that this blog could otherwise have. I don’t mean to be harsh but you seem to be unnecessarily burning bridges.”
We did not write the above article. We stated at the top that “We found this article from Diakrisis to be a decent summary of the Hillsong movement”.
On another note, it was at the Council of Trent that the Roman Catholic Church burnt their bridges with the growing reformation. The Protestants wanted to reform the Roman Catholic Church back to the Word of God.
It was at that Council that they purposely were “burning bridges” between themselve and those in the reformation.
It was the Roman Catholic Church that has eternally damned us by anathemising the fathers of the reformation and what they stood for. To this stay, according to the Roman Catholic Church, the Protestant Church still stands eternally damned.
So it is very perplexing to see Hillsong Church befriend the Roman Catholic Church which eternally damned them. It does send out a very confusing message to protestant Christians.
Churchwater,
My mistake, by the time I’d reached the end I didn’t recall that it was a re-post of Diakrisis.
With the exclusion of some of his writings, including his anti-semitic garbage, Martin Luther has been canonized. In my estimation, they would be reluctant to extend the hand of fellowship to Calvin because “once saved always saved” was deemed a heresy in the fifth century (1000 years prior to Calvin). And Benedict tried to encourage Catholics to appreciate scripture as much as Protestants do. So there is a faint pulse suggesting some signs of life.
Thank you for the recommendations, I will look into them.
Blessings in Christ,
Josiah
To Josiah,
Thank you for engaging politely and thoughtfully. This is the type of conversation we wished to see on our sites. We do not have a problem with people analysing content in our articles. We are happy that you are willing to engage on these very important subjects. So feel free to look at the available resources we offer for your search for truth on these matters.
Michael Horton’s White Horse Inn and James White’s Alpha and Omega Ministries are sure to be of valuable assistance to you. They are experts in the field of biblical knowledge. Good luck in your search.
Thank you for your constructive criticism.
Folks,
I’m running a little late in responding to these older posts (about 6 months), but like Josiah above, I feel that the issues are important. Having been in a house church many years ago, where the women did veil, and did no teaching, I can say that this is a very legalistic interpretation of Paul’s directions.
Besides, why would the Holy Ghost contradict Himself,by saying (through Paul) that women must wear a head covering while “praying or prophesying” when they were supposed to be in silence the whole way through? (1 Cor 11)
I want you all to understand that I’m no liberal, I like a Godly woman to look and act like she belongs to Jesus, not Satan! I don’t sing Hillsong songs (not consciously anyway,) and have no patience or pity for obvious false prophets and teachers, so:
I’d like to ask the ‘naysayers’ just why Phillip the Evangelist’s four daughters had the gift of prophecy. Why would God almighty give those ladies a specific gift, which was/is meant to be used in church services, and then (through the apostle Paul) tell them all to shut up while they were in church?
That just doesn’t make sense! Furthermore, when Apollos was staying at the house of Priscilla and Aquila, he was sat down while both Priscilla and her husband:
“But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.” Acts 18:24 – 26
There’s a whole lot of stuff around women and head coverings, shaved heads, silence, speech, reading (Phoebe) and giftings and this is not the place to launch into a diatribe over that. Simply put, it was wealthy women who ministered to Jesus and the apostles of their substance before the cross, it was Lydia whose heart the Lord opened at Phillipi, it was Priscilla and Aquila who ministered to Apollos.
At the back of Romans, (Romans 16) there’s a whole list of men AND women, whom Paul regarded as coworkers in the Gospel, from verse 3 up to verse 15. Note verse 7, Andronicus and Junia, “who were of note among the apostles”! It is interesting to note what verses some of you folks put in, as well as the ones that you leave out.
As for Paul’s instructions to Timothy, many of the women in Ephesus had come out of the pagan cult of Diana during the time of that city’s revival (Acts 19) and had, in a past life, been priestesses of that temple or temple prostitutes, and as such, were more dominant in their former roles.
Taking the common sense approach, I believe that Paul put this prohibition of silence temporarily on those specific women, until they had learned the ways of God, and whatever they said at a later date, would be honouring to God, and not some throwback to their former pagan ways.
Austin Hellier
If you would like to know what position we hold about women in the church, we hold to complimentarianism. That is, both men and women have been specifically placed in certain positions in the family household and in Gods household to compliment his work through His church. Unfortunately, Hillsong disregard the scriptures on this issue and dilute the gospel presentation between the role of men and women in the church.
Consider Ephesians 5:
“Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.a In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.
However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.”
@ Austen – for your perusal, quite an in-depth biblical study on the role of women in the church. This is the position I now affirm as a complimentarian, having been on the “other side” (egalitarian) for 22 years.
http://carm.org/women-in-ministry
Brethren,
I would certainly agree with you and the Bible that Christian women should respect their husbands. The problem is one of extremes – on the one hand you have women being told that they “must keep silence in the church” and on the other hand you have disorderly women who hold their husbands in open contempt, whether they exercise a platform ministry or not. A lot more damage can be done ‘down in the pews’ not just on the ‘platform’. Women who are out of line can lead by (bad) example too!
I certainly wouldn’t want or condone my wife looking like Lady Ga Ga, or Britney Spears, while she sang on stage, or talked about Jesus in a public forum. Obviously that is an extreme example, but I dare say that some ‘churches’ are not too far away from that kind of nonsense anyway. Extremism occurs when we fail to find and implement the biblical balance. I am not in favour of ‘butch’ women being promoted within the church, neither am I in favour of suppressing them to the point where they are ‘silent’.
Just about every cult and sect that I have ever met along life’s journey has tended to treat their women like second class citizens, in the ‘kingdom’ (or their version of the Kingdom). It seems to me brethren, that both the apostles and the Lord Himself, treated women with admiration and respect. Paul names two of them as ‘co-workers’ (Phills. 2:2-4)
I wonder how these two ladies would get on in the Open Brethren church of today, as it’s pretty hard to do the work of a co-worker, if you are considered a mere adjunct to the dominant male leadership. The ‘Closed’ Brethren cult which has featured prominently in the media here in Australia in the last 5 years is a graphic testimony of that.
Using your example of Ephesian 5 though, as a type of Christ and the Church, I find that the ‘bride’ is not “silent” at all. She is rather vocal – she holds outreaches, preaches both to the converted and the lost. She engages in missionary endeavours and feeds the poor – hardly the image of a ‘silent’ bride… Submission is not stupidity, neither is it subservience, but it is an attitude of the heart.
It is obvious to all of us that some women in the church scene of today have had this attitude bred out of them. It seems to me brothers, that there is an equality between the sexes (“there is neither male nor female in Christ” Gal. 3:28,) but an obvious differing in their roles within the family unit, which Ephesian 5 so adequately describes.
With all due respect to you and your stance, I noticed that you haven’t responded to any of the references I quoted? I’m not looking to nitpick you brothers, and I wholeheartedly appreciate your insights into Hillsong and its cultish and errant behaviours and teaching – I don’t know all that there is to know about them, even though I have contact with their people from time to time.
When I come to a blog site of this nature, I try and contribute things that are meaningful. I’m not one of those people who just logs onto every topic in order to be contentious, as such people (both male and female) are to be avoided. (Prov 21:9, Tit 3:10)
Hillsong should be exposed for the fake money raking business that it has become. When the government and the media go after someone and their organisation in tandem, it is not for no reason! Good job well done!
Austin Hellier
‘enough of false profits, and the people who make them’
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~rseaborn/rock_evangelism.html
Interesting history of Hillsong and Rock Music “outreaches” in Cairns and Newcastle. Not sure whether you’ve seen this one or not. Going back to the home page also lists some letters about two men who were disfellowshiped from the Cairns AoG for taking a stand against Hagin and Copeland and the rest of the false prophets currently strutting the world stage.
Austin Hellier
The stupidest thing ever is for someone to make their opinions biblica, and to back their personal opinions with Scripture by obviously taking it out of context to justify what they’re saying. To you who are busy calling people false preachers and prophets, who gave you the right to say that? Did you receive revelation from Heaven concerning that? Did God ask for your help in “exposing” them? You can’t even do meaningful work for God, all you know to do is criticise people who through their ministries and music have won more souls than you ever will even throughout eternity. While you’re busy exposing your foolishness and immaturity by writing childish articles, the same people are busy thinking of ways to impact people, and because you can’t, you’ll always settle for bad mouthing others. Such a low form of life. Keep your opinions to self in future.
“The stupidest thing ever is for someone to make their opinions biblica, and to back their personal opinions with Scripture by obviously taking it out of context to justify what they’re saying.”
We agree, which is why this website started up. Hillsong is founded on their opinions and “back their personal opinions with Scripture by obviously taking it out of context to justify what they’re saying”
“To you who are busy calling people false preachers and prophets, who gave you the right to say that?”
And who are you to surrender your rights, not question these men and what they teach?
So did you get a revelation that they are false prophets?
“So did you get a revelation that they are false prophets?”
Yes, I did.
However, that fact is immaterial, since these frauds are condemned out of their own mouths by “preaching” things that are contrary to both the letter and the spirit of Scripture, and, moreover, by the fact that they show themselves for what they are by their altogether disgusting conduct (are you perhaps a “Kingdom Woman”, Katlego?)
“[…] the same people are busy thinking of ways to impact people […]”
And there’s the proof: as it is written “Unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labour in vain” – but you have admitted that these people, far from walking in obedience to the leading of the Holy Spirit, are “busy thinking”. They are indulging in what the Bible calls “vain imaginings”, and they are walking by the light of their own fires.
It’s humorous in the extreme to see you flatly contradicting yourself as you lionise these losers who are the objects of your adulation; your confusion is all too typical of the spiritually dull and intellectually-challenged victims of the hillsong prosperity cult. (You also might want to brush up on your English: “impact” is not a verb, but rather a noun).
As a final thought, I note that you offer only your opinion – and a critical, negative and bitter one at that – and neglect to provide so much as a skerrick of proof to support your position. Most tellingly, you don’t make any reference whatsoever to the Bible to support your position – it could only be assumed that this is because:
(a) You don’t have any respect for God’s written Word and the authority thereof
(b) You are Biblically illiterate
(c) You are intellectually lazy
(d) You are too shallow to understand or appreciate what constitutes convincing debate
I suspect that you are a devotee of the hillsong cult, in which case it is most likely that all of the reasons enumerated above are applicable. When are hillsong going to send someone to comment on this site who will actually be worthy of engaging?
Hehe the only thing I’ll say to you buddy is that…you need help, God help you brother. How sad that you don’t see bitterness in you and what you wrote. I was intentional in not using Scripture to support nonsense. For your info, I did three years in Rev Kenneth Hagin’s Rhema Bible College, so if there’s anybody who’s Biblically illeterate here it must be you because you’d know that Scripture is used to build up and not to tear down people. If you were that Biblically literate you’d know that the Bible says not to strive but only an illeterate like you would seek a “challenge” from somebody from Hillsong just to prove your stupidity. Sad reality is that other people have got better things to do than “engage” an airhead like you. I feel so ashamed that I even stopped down to your level and entertained you.
Also if you were that Biblically literate you’d know that the Bible says love covers a multitude of sins. If you had love in you and cared for people you’d instead pray for the so called “cults, false prophets and teachers” that they they see “the light”, but since you’re consumed in a self righteous Pharasaical spirit, you’re the type that drags people’s sin out in public like they did with the woman caught in adultery, while you yourself have got terrible skeletons in the closet and dumb enough to cast the first stone and label people based on some shallow revelation you got from who knows where. Life has shown me that people with insecurity and self esteem issues have a tendency to beat down on others and that makes them feel better about themselves. Go get help and deal with your issues, that way you wont have time to focus on other people’s issues. God help and God bless. Bye.
“I did three years in Rev Kenneth Hagin’s Rhema Bible College […]”
Well my Lordy, why didn’ you jes say so at thu outset?
I woulda neva – eva – poured scorn on your good self if ida as much as even *suspected* that you were a bona fide Word of Faith Biblical schola! Why your brain must be bigga than all a Texas; you must be a intellectual giant!
“[…] if there’s anybody who’s Biblically illeterate [sic] here it must be you […]”
So Katlego, do you want to know the definition of irony? It’s when you accuse someone of being illiterate, but you can’t spell the word correctly. Perhaps you should stay away from commenting on web sites, and stick instead to something you’re good at.
“So you decided on the easy option, Zorro. Continue as the heavy for the site and leave reasonable debate to the mature.”
Who are you to decide the one who is mature?
“I never read anyone who took so long to say nothing encouraging.”
B.S., Steve has read many things all over the internet!
“If we analyse your methods, really all you ever do is insult people, pull their ideas apart, and put them down.”
No, He is just standing up for the post, in which you have made clear, that you cannot understand, proclaim, or put together.
“If we analyse your methods, really all you ever do is insult people, pull their ideas apart, and put them down.
I don’t think that is what Christ intended for us in our interaction with people, whether they are right or wrong.”
11 My son, do not despise the Lord’s discipline,
and do not resent his rebuke,
12 because the Lord disciplines those he loves,
as a father the son he delights in.[b]
13 Blessed are those who find wisdom,
those who gain understanding,
14 for she is more profitable than silver
and yields better returns than gold.
15 She is more precious than rubies;
nothing you desire can compare with her.
16 Long life is in her right hand;
in her left hand are riches and honor.
17 Her ways are pleasant ways,
and all her paths are peace.
18 She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her;
those who hold her fast will be blessed.
The problem is STEVE , that you just don’t THINK!
To the Hillsong churches and events I’ve been so far, I’ve always been welcomed so warmly and they just let you that you’re appreciated!
You’re right, that can’t be Christian! They must be anti-Christians! I mean… .they also seem happy – totally unchristian!
I may not always agree with every word or detail they preach, but there’s no church in the world that does that because of one good reason. Every man is fallible – the preacher as well as the listener.
But thanks to you Super-Christians I finally know that Hillsong really is evil and not preaching the truth… 😀 Silly dudes 😉
Houston is not fallible in the Hillsong cult. You cannot question his vision from God or his teaching.
You have never proved this, only claimed it.
Show us where Brian Houston has ever said his members must not challenge ‘his’ vision rom God. The only people to make this claim are now atheists an have gone into relative obscurity after a brief flurry with the media who used them and spat them out.
What evidence do you have, Biblically, that Hillsong is a cult? You have said it many times, but never shown it from scripture, which you claim to be your standard.
Disagreeing with points of theology doesn’t make either side a cult. You have to show that it is a cult, not because you accept Reformed theology, or Lutheran arguments, but because it is Biblically showing the signs of a cult.
i thnk it is better if one jst asks the Holy sprite because we all don’t know the truth! we are able to know the truth because of Him
@ Tumelo – how do you know it’s the Holy Spirit answering?
Gordy (Steve) strange isn’t it, that you demand a list of the Biblical criteria for what constitutes a cult. Well, the Bible doesn’t talk of cults as we understand the term in modern times.
It does, however, mention on numerous occasions, the fact that such people exist, albeit using Bible terminology:
*false apostles: 2 Cor 11:13, Revelation 2:2
*false prophets & false teachers: Matthew 7:13 – 23, 2 Peter 2:1
*hirelings: John 10:13
*wolves: Matthew 7:15, Acts 20:29
along with heretics, antichrists, deceivers, evil men of reprobate minds, those who lie in wait to deceive… and the list just keeps going on and on.
But you know all of that, don’t you, so why bother even asking?
Cultish behaviour, in modern terms, is all about controlling what people see, hear, read and experience. It is about a form of sophisticated mind control, based on information deprivation (dumbing down the group) and reprogramming them to believe the leader’s version of events ( which includes the pastor’s “vision”) which absolutely cannot be challenged, as it is part of the reprogrammed ‘paradigm’ and stands resolute as the very will of God, but hardly ever lines up with the Word of God.
If you do challenge the “vision”, then you do so at your peril. If you do, then be prepared to face shunning, isolation, loss of position and status amongst the “inner circle” and whatever you do, don’t EVER ask questions like “where did all the money go?” That will have you permanently damned and on you way to Hell! And you don’t have to be a Hillsong member for any of the above to happen… it can happen to you at a ‘clone’ church too, no matter how large or small it may be.
The true Church is the one that offends the world. It speaks about sin. I have had people offended at me because I told them about their sin.
I love hillsong more after reading this…great!
@Richard:
“I love hillsong more after reading this…great!”
Yes, Richard, but do you love Jesus more as a result of going to Hillsong? That would be the more pertinent and relevant question here, wouldn’t it?
As a wise man once said “you ain’t gonna learn, what you don’t wanna know” but my Bible teaches me that willful ignorance is foolishness indeed…
“For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:..” (2 Peter 3:5)
Willful ignorance of the facts surrounding the flood of Noah’s day did not prevent everyone else who was not on the Ark from drowning, any more than it will excuse Hillsong, its ‘ministry team’ and its sordid history, including its descent into false prophecy, New Age doctrinal error and Mammon worship.
The kind of ignorance you’re displaying here will not protect you on the day when you face Christ – there will be no smart comments for you to make then, ‘Richard’…
“I love hillsong more after reading this…great!”
Richard, That’s probably fine, since you’re not the type of person this website would benefit. This website was intended for people who actually think.
After extensive listening to Hillsong music I can honestly say that I found it particularly moving. Although it is rock inspired it none the less focuses on praising the Lord Jesus.
I can see how the youth would be drawn toward it because of it’s inspiring and uplifting lyrics and musicality.
In the ministry to reach out to others it is often necessary to speak the language of their understanding.
By initially reaching another with the introduction to Christ that they can relate to, then I believe that will allow Jesus to reveal Himself to them. It will allow others the opportunity to seek and to know. An opportunity which not otherwise would have happened.
Glorious music is always great no matter what generation created it.
It may sound different and reflect different styles but it all points in the same direction.
“It will allow others the opportunity to seek and to know. An opportunity which […] otherwise would [not] have happened.”
So there are some who, without hillsong music, would not have the opportunity to know Christ?
Obviously the Lord’s arm is shortened that he cannot save. Isn’t it fortunate that God has the omnipotent Brian Houston to help Him in His glaring weakness and insufficiency?
“In the ministry to reach out to others it is often necessary to speak the language of their understanding.
By initially reaching another with the introduction to Christ that they can relate to, then I believe that will allow Jesus to reveal Himself to them. It will allow others the opportunity to seek and to know.”
Hate to be the one to fill you in bubba, but Jesus doesn’t need Hillsong’s ‘help.’
The main problem is Ramassist2 that this leadership’s lives and lifestyle do not back up and reinforce the words in the music.
Ok I don’t know enough about that but in reference to the music it does seem to attract a lot of youth
Many of which may actually begin in another church.
The conversation seems to be centered around the music and the man in charge of the org
Again I don’t know a lot about that but the message I hear is to follow God and Jesus. Maybe I am being blind here but I open my eyes further.
So far I do not see what is wrong with the music in and of itself.
Hillsong austrelia is prasing God with her songs, we love her we have almost play all her albums, so we waiting for new album bt non. Is true that her gift is not from God?
“You are worth fighting for, it is true,” the Braavosi said, “and I would gladly let you
http://etozapretnoe.ru/page_11327.html
men.”