bobbie houston, Brian Houston, bullock, CBN, Christian Broadcast Network, cover up, coverup, deceit, geoff bullock, Hillsong cult, Hillsong music, hillsong worship, houston, levin, liar, lies, Live Love Lead, Live Love Leer, Live Love Lie, Meeuwsen, mental disorder, narcissist, narcissistic, people in glass houses, psychopath, sociopath, tanya levin, Terry Meeuwsen, worship
One reason why we started Church Watch was because we noticed popular cults starting to rewrite their history. Specifically C3 and Hillsong.
In his book, ‘Live Love Lead,’ Brian Houston of Hillsong lied about his history in how he dealt with his father’s crimes and victims (he also added new information to the story that was not disclosed at the Royal Commission). The stories he told the media also contradicted his story at the Royal Commission.
He has also been promoting the lie that he started CLC/Hillsong (switching histories to suit whatever agenda). He also insists that he founded his church at Hills in 1983. This is now being refuted as well.
The philosophy with Hillsong is this: if your history doesn’t make you look good, change it or cover it up. And Brian Houston has had lots of experience with this (as we are about to find out).
Recently, Brian Houston was focusing on the Evangelical Industrial Complex (EIC) in America to sell his new book ‘Live Love Lead.’ Terry Meeuwsen appeared to make Houston nervous while he promoted his material on the Christian Broadcast Network. She raised the issue of Houston’s terrible experience losing his “best friend” in 1995. His body language indicated that he clearly was not comfortable with Meeuwsen throwing this experience in his face. (Watch at 7:10 onwards.)
Terry Meeuwsen: “… When I think of Hillsong, I think of praise and worship because those songs are sung in my own church and the churches of so many of us. And God actually used the disappointment and the surprise of a leader leaving – a key lead- THE leader of your worship team, and yet God did an amazing thing.
Brian Houston: “You mean right back in 1995?
Terry Meeuwsen: Yeah.
Brian Houston: So it’s 20 years ago? It’s true.
We were on the edge of recording with ah- Integrity Music here in America. And of course we’re Down Under, like, you know, its already amazing that, that um- people were reaching out to us.
And so, the week that it was about to happen – and ah- I still don’t even understand it. I still to this day don’t understand it. But our worship leader walked out. [Behaviour gets antsy] And literally walked out. Like literally left my life- left our lives- and he was like a best friend, so there’s huge grief involved. [Rubs loose tooth?] And uh-
But the incredible thing in it all is that the only person I could turn to was a lady called Darlene Zschech. And of course Darlene Zschech is well-known now around the globe. So I kind of, as well as I could, I gently pushed her forward. I rang Integrity Music. And incredibly they never had a woman lead one of their projects at that time. So it was quite a big thing for them. But it turned out to be an amazing story.”
[Drinks cup of water]
That worship leader and “best friend” to Brian Houston in 1995 was Geoff Bullock.
Geoff Bullock was the man that gave Christian Life Centre the name Hillsong and helped put Hillsong on the map for it’s outstanding musical events and it’s famous music. Just like many others who made Hillsong what it is today, Brian Houston simply rode on the coat-tails of his “friends” who made Hillsong what it is.
So how does Brian Houston treat his best friends? Did he really suffer memory loss on the CBN set? To answer that question, we will look at Brian Houston’s book ‘You Can Change the Future’, Tanya Levin’s book ‘People in Glass Houses’ and finally read what Geoff Bullock himself said about his experience.
Tanya Levin wrote about Geoff Bullock in her book ‘People in Glass Houses’:
“Geoff left Hillsong in late 1995. I knew that his marriage had broken down and had remarried but, not having stayed in touch with the Christian music scene, not much else. The Geoff that I shared cappuccinos with was the same man as always. Same piercing blue eyes, soft mannerisms, and a voice born for the BBC. Geoff is not, by nature, an AoG salesman. Rather he represents a large group of artists who are attracted to the Pentecostal church by the opportunity for creative expression for Jesus.
What I didn’t expect was the brokenness. Although I had worked with people from a diversity of backgrounds for years, I assumed all the old wise men of God were naturally of stronger character than me, Over the time we spoke I found it not to be so. It was Geoff’s openness and willingness to talk that prepared me for a world of people damaged for the long-term by the work of Hillsong and the AoG.
Geoff says he remembers having episodes of mania when he was a child, although he wasn’t diagnosed with symptoms of any kind until after he left Hillsong. He sees a therapist to work on his long periods of depression, which are often followed by episodes of intense creativity. The other obstacle in his life is the nightmares he suffers dating from the time with Hillsong, an off-shoot of his post-traumatic stress diagnosis.
As the Hillsong conference expanded in the late eighties, so did Geoff’s responsibilities and pressures. He and his wife, Janine, were expected to spend infinite hours away from their children to run the music department. International interest in the music grew and so did Geoff’s profile. The couple travelled extensively with the Praise and Worship team, and personally with their old friends Brian and Bobbie. Despite the bright lights and the glory, his music career at it’s peak, Geoff was finding less satisfaction and spirituality in what he was doing.
After the most successful conference yet, Hillsong ’95, Geoff went to Brian and told him he was leaving. It was time, he felt, spiritually, to pursue other interests. Nothing personal.
Geoff Bullock had left a career with ABC-TV as a production manager to become a pastor with the Hills Christian Life Centre in 1978. For nearly twenty years he was able to use those skills to produce Hillsong music, and the show that accompanied it. During that time he wrote, produced and performed countless songs, and released seven albums. Because Hillsong still uses those songs, has remixed them and re-released them, Geoff’s royalties are growing at the same rate as Hillsong.
Which is lucky for Geoff. Hillsong did everything in its power to prevent his future success. Due to speak at a bible college occasion soon after leaving, he received a phone call with a sudden apology. Hillsong had informed the bible college that any associations with Geoff Bullock meant no further association with Hillsong. Christian magazines were told the same thing. Piles of the CD Geoff was about to release were found dumped at a tip in Blacktown, not far from Hillsong headquarters.
In Bobbie’s I’ll Have What She’s Having, this period is clearly referred to (the emphases are hers):
In July 1995, we witnesses a wonderful HILLSONG Leadership Conference. It was our 9th conference and in our nation and in our context of influence, to put it delicately- ‘we put the wind up the devil!!!’ Stories would flood into our offices of churches and towns being turned upside down with a revival spirit. God is good (all the time). Brian and I took a week to tie up loose ends and then together with our friends Pat and Liz Mesiti we took a little holiday. (I think God was just being terribly kind to give us a rest, because he knew what lay around the next bend.)
We came home a week later, stepped off the plane (‘hello, hello … lovely to see you … we missed you all … had a lovely time!’) and literally all hell broke out with one of our key people. It was the first and only time that something like this had happened to us. (I must admit prior to that conference I sensed something brewing, and had called our pastors wives to prayer.)
… For the next several months it was as though demons came out of the woodwork on every front. When attacks come from every side it is a sure sign that you are doing something right (which is contrary to some people’s belief). We experienced a barrage of attack-cancer, accidents, stinking thinking, people throwing in the towel, disloyalty in our team that disappointed our heart, devil induced confusion, opposition and fine thread ‘cancerous attitude’ bent on contaminating and taking out this particular Body of Christ.
Eventually, a Hillsong board member had lunch with Geoff. ‘We tried to destroy you,’ he told him. ‘until we realised you weren’t a threat.’ Geoff continues to work and write music, though he gave up performing years ago.
The nightmares remain one of the most intrusive spillovers from the old days. Three of four times a week he dreams about Hillsong events, being humiliated by Brian’s demands, being screamed at, berated and bullied along the way. His psyche is deeply affected. He is very aware that he, too, became a bully. Years later, Geoff has tried to make amends to many people he treated ruthlessly in order to avoid punishment from above.
At the end of our first meeting at a café, Geoff is exhausted. He tells me he feels drained by the remembering. I realise I have stumbled into a much more serious affliction in people’s lives than I had anticipated.”
Source: Tanya Levin, People in Glass Houses, Published: Black Inc., Melbourne, VIC: 2007, pg. 242-4.
Brian Houston writes of his best friend this way in his book ‘You Can Change the Future’ (a book that attempted to cover up his father’s crimes as a paedophile and exalted as a role model for others to follow):
Commitment to the right vehicle
“When I was a little boy, I had a scooter. As I got older, I rode a three-wheeled trike before I got my first bicycle. One day my father took me down to the shops and as I sat impatiently waiting for him in the car, all of sudden [sic] he came around the corner with a shining green bicycle. It was my pride and joy. Of course getting my first car was an unforgettable moment in my life. It was a ’57 Austin A50. It was also green and it cost me $650.
Many people desire to make an impact on the generations but rely on old vehicles to get there. Imagine me trying to fulfil my overseas speaking engagements via my original scooter or bicycle! You need the right vehicle and the right associations to enable God to take you forward. You may have a great vision to impact the earth, but alone you cannot do as much as you could together with others. If you are in associations which are holding you back or on a vehicle that is moving too slowly, stretch yourself by stepping into the mainstream and being committed to going forward.
I have been blessed to pastor at least four world-class songwriters, and many others heading in the same direction. I cannot take credit for their anointing or their God-given gifts, but I do have a sense of satisfaction about their opportunity. The Hillsong Church is a vehicle that has taken their songs to the world. One of these writers, who severed their link to our church several years ago, told me how they were writing more songs than ever before. Interestingly, it is only the songs that were written within the local church that I have heard anybody singing. It seems as though the local church was the vehicle which God was blessing.
Currently, the most sung praise and worship songs in Australian churches have emerged from the life of our church. Obviously that association with Hillsong Church has been very fruitful for people like Darlene Zschech, Ruben Morgan and Russel Fragar. They have obvious talent, a beautiful anointing, but also the right vehicle. Talent and anointing on their own aren’t enough, but placing the right people, in the right place, at the right time, has enormous potential.”
Source: Brian Houston, You Can Change the Future: Living Beyond Today and Impacting the Generations Ahead, Published: Maximised Leadership Incorporated, Australia, 2000, pg. 131-2.
And what did Geoff Bullock had to say about his experience? This is a very insightful interview exposing what Bullock went through, discussing areas of Hillsong’s philosophy, methods and dirty tactics which lead to his swift removal.
And Houston claims he has no idea why Geoff Bullock, his best friend, walked? What other lies and smear campaigns has Brian Houston written about in his book ‘Live Love Lead’? What other media organisations and Christian groups has he publicly mislead and lied to about his past life?
Terry Allen from the Christian Faith wrote this piece back in 2010:
Geoff Bullock opens up …
We all know his music and we each have a favourite. He is Geoff Bullock. But what do you know about the man? About Geoff as a Christian? About Geoff as a sufferer of bi-polar disorder?
Join Geoff as he discusses his life and ministry with Terry Allen.
Geoff, what have you been doing for the last decade or so?
Oh, what a question! What have I been doing for the last 10 years? I would say I have been learning grace and un-learning working to prove myself.
Now, that is not just in a spiritual situation, that is in a whole of life situation: in my relationships with my kids, with my friends, with [wife] Victoria, especially as a step-father. Learning how to be rather than to do.
Spiritually, that has huge impacts on my life. I wrote two books at the beginning of the century, which was the beginning of that journey. Jesus’ story painted in a way that I hope you could see or visualize the impact he was making on society and the lives of broken hearted people; people without hope.
In the last 10 years I suppose, I would say, combined with that, I have been battling with mental illness: bi-polar type two which has caused all manner of symptoms in my life which has been confronting. One of the main ones being high levels of anxiety, which has seen me come and go publically three times.
I am now 10 years on and I feel the illness is manageable and the greatest gift, I think, is that I have been forced to learn insight into the way I think and the way that I do. I have learnt that by reflection on my past and reflection on the times where I can see the illness in that.
Also, over the last decade, I have had a most surprising return to public profile to tie that journey in to the life of Christ and the hope we see in the cross. So, I think that’s what I’ve been doing.
Life as a Christian, especially with bi-polar disorder, must be difficult. Some Christians believe it is demonic & should be dealt exclusively by prayer. How have you managed it?
Well, the first thing I want to wade in swinging is that I wish the evangelists and those who visit churches, and they arrive one day and leave the other, who drop such dangerous bombs on people’s medical situations; I wish they would go and do some research by sitting down with a psychiatrist and realizing how dangerous their teaching is.
You wouldn’t dare say that to someone with diabetes, but this irresponsible message; all it does is heighten the symptoms twice. You know, they go off medication, they get worse and then, getting worse, they think they must be possessed by demons, so that makes them feel worse and then they are totally without an anchor. Of course the hope of medication and a good psychiatrist is taken away from them, so I get furious about that.
And it’s also totally irrelevant to the gospel. There’s no resemblance to the life of Christ whatsoever. So, those are my little swinging punches.
For me, I do a lot of thinking, prayerful thinking and I think about the life of Christ all the time. Trying to strip away all of the things we’ve said culturally and theologically: strip it away. The drama that was Jesus when he walked into somebody’s life or somebody’s social circumstances: that is of great help to me.
I have a little saying: receiving grace compels us to begin the journey towards becoming gracious. Receiving grace is free but becoming gracious will cost you everything. It will cost you every opinion you have in your life and every bias.
So that has made a huge difference in the way I react to my symptoms because often my symptoms are feelings of rejection and a lack of affirmation and a feeling of isolation.Then I will expect people to do as I want them to do which is to work to prove their love for me as I am working to prove my love for them. So meditating on the life of Christ helps me to challenge that works based expectation of myself and others.
Bi-polar disorder is often suffered by artistic and creative people and one of the symptoms is depression. Have you suffered depression?
Yes, I’ve been absolutely lost in it. It was in 2007, actually it started back in November 2006, I remember vividly when i suddenly realised that I was falling into depression, I was sitting on a sun drenched balcony overlooking the sea and feeling absolutely miserable and that lasted for just on a year.
Obviously, talking to my GP and then my psychiatrist, I began a journey of trying to balance medication and cognitive therapy. I ended up as a day patient at a psychiatric clinic in Sydney, which I think was the beginning of helping me to have insight and, strangely enough, 2008 saw the rebirth of what I’m doing now and I spent a good 18 months of it depressed, but it was wonderful having a mission.
Have you ever felt Christian condemnation over your condition?
No, I don’t think I’ve ever been in that situation, but look, I can be a little outspoken and I have thought really deeply about my condition and so I feel that I have ammunition now. If, for example someone said to me, “Oh, it’s the devil”, which did happen to me once: one of my very, very oldest friends: he is not a man with insight. He does not think deeply and so he has a book of rules that he applies. He started a conversation with me about my depression being demonic and I think my response was strong enough for him to realize that even if he thought I was wrong, he would be wise to step away.
15 years ago you left Hillsong. Why?
Well, I’ve got to say that I was always a round peg in a square hole there. From the beginning of Hillsong’s association with the Word of Faith churches in America, their prosperity doctrine and their very works-based doctrine of spiritual and physical rewards, I just could not tie the gospel together with what they were saying. Not when I looked at Jesus at the cross; I couldn’t understand how they combined the grace of Jesus found in the gospel with the laws of conditional blessings and rewards found in the Old Testament.
They teach that Jesus rewards us according to our works. That is not the work of Christ. Grace is never a reward. We receive grace as a gift according what Jesus accomplished for us.
I actually tried to leave in 1992, but got turned around. It’s important that I say I chose to stay and rededicate all that I could to continue being part of their vision and the outworking of it.
Then, in 1995, I had two major things happening: I had this sensation that I really didn’t know Jesus. I knew Paul’s Jesus, I knew the epistles’ Jesus and Hebrews and I knew my movement’s Jesus: all the preachers and teachers who came through and spoke about him, but in my own life I felt I did not have this sense of meeting him. And so I started a search.
That’s when I wrote the song Jesus, God’s righteousness revealed. Towards the middle of the year, I started to really burn out because I was trying so hard to prove myself worthy of being who I was and trying to prove myself worthy of God’s presence on a Sunday: I had this poor, misguided feeling that if I play really, really well, God will come. It might sound stupid to say it, but it was where I think lots of Church musicians still are.
But after Hillsong ’95 I just felt so broken and so failed, I thought, “Look, I could just fall over dead and no one would notice.” But then I had this profound sense, and it grew: in fact, I would say it was the strongest spiritual encounter I had with God, where he said, through a whole lot of ways, to do something: that I had to go.
And it took three months and a whole lot of conversations, but eventually I wrote a letter and handed it on by a friend. I didn’t have the courage to do it to their face, but I knew that if I didn’t do what I felt God was saying… I had a choice: either I follow God or follow the church.
In the end, I’d rather build my relationship, my spirituality, on trying to discern what God’s saying to me and that’s how I left. And it really was the great divorce. It was unnecessarily bitter and divisive and that I found very confusing.
By saying it was bitter and divisive, do you mean you were stabbed in the back?
Yes, absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt. There were letters written to other churches, there were approaches made to other churches, there was a statement made to the whole church leadership team. They just couldn’t understand what I was doing, but in the end that’s just human and it’s very painful.
One of the hardest things was when my marriage ended three months later people jumped to a conclusion which was so far from the truth. This sad piece of gossip is still believed to be the truth.
Even last weekend I had to retell my story to put events back into the order that they occurred. It would have been lovely if Hillsong helped to put things right. However I simply became the invisible and forgotten man and that hurts deeply. Very deeply. I would have thought that my work there was seen as a blessing.
Unfortunately, I don’t think that rift has ever been repaired. There is nothing to indicate that it has.
Has there been any reaction at Hillsong in recent times to your current ministry?
Well, firstly, I made contact within six months with Brian Houston who was my very best friend at the time. This is really painful stuff and I can fully understand how he felt. I tried to explain as I was slowing gaining insight into what eventually would be bi-polar. I talked about co-dependency, I talked about my spirituality and I would often find that Brian would understand and ‘get it’. I had a chance to go and see most of the elders and senior pastors at that time and try to explain that I was sorry it happened the way it happened. I could have handled it a whole lot better: I handled it very, very poorly. I suppose we both did, but I can only be accountable for myself.
I met with Brian many, many times because I didn’t like the thought that he thought ill of me and misunderstood me, but I also felt that I had wounded him in a way that I wished I hadn’t and that somehow I could take those wounds away or help heal them. So, we’ve had good contact, but as far as the church is concerned, nothing. There’s just been silence, absolute silence.
I must say, when I left and obviously it was getting rather sad, I decided not to contact any of my friends because I felt that if I did, the worst thing they could do is try to understand me because then they would misunderstand the church and I didn’t want to put my friends in the middle of something that was unnecessary but very human. So, I walked away too and that has to be understood.
Funnily enough, I could see something of my bi-polar going way back to when I was 17 and I was at a very good school in Sydney and all of a sudden I decided I had to leave and I left at the end of year 11. I’ve had almost no contact with that school ever since.
The same thing when I left the ABC and the same thing when I left Hillsong. There is a part of me: I just cut my ties and run.
In realising this I have to take responsibility for my actions and not blame others for my sense of isolation. This is a difficult lesson to admit. I must have hurt so many people. However, no matter how I set about leaving I always come back to believing that i made the right decision.
You wrote some of our generation’s favourite songs. They are ones we all sing in Church. How does that make you feel?
Weird. I’ve always been a musician and always written songs but it hadn’t really defined me all that much, so it was very weird when all of a sudden I was writing songs that were defining me. My claim to fame in the early to mid 80’s was that I was a former cameraman with the ABC. I worked on virtually all their programs for 10 years, so that was my claim to fame.
Then I wrote The Power of Your Love and The Heavens Shall Declare and off it all went. And I have really badly battled with it at times because I would feel it placed on me a responsibility to try to be someone I wasn’t. And that was hard and unnecessary, but I would still feel this pressure. People would come and tell me these stories and I wouldn’t know how to answer.
The way I relate to it now is that I just feel like I have very successful children, which I gave birth to. They’ve now gone and travelled the world, they’ve made a huge impact in their own right and I look back remembering their birth, but looking at their independence. I think that’s by and large how I relate to it now.
Many of the songs you wrote, you now sing with revised lyrics. Why?
Well, I suppose it’s because I remember who I was when I wrote the song. I remember my approach to God and I remember what was a real disfunctionality. Yes, it was the result of an undiagnosed illness, but it was also an error of theology. An error of grace or rather an error of works in grace.
When Paul says in Galatians, “You foolish Galatians.” ‘You silly things. It had to be done by the Spirit; what are you doing completing it by works?’
Well, that was me. I sort of felt like it was a one-time grace or two-time grace. You went back to God asking for forgiveness, you hung your head in shame, but then you tried to prove yourself worthy of it all. I was constantly striving and therefore constantly burning out.
I was so fierce on myself. I would just push myself and push myself and I would never receive any comfort because I would always be measuring myself and coming up short. I didn’t count myself worthy of comfort. I could never be than man of god that significant others were telling me I should be.
In the middle of this sad and broken time I became aware, ever so gently, that grace was embracing me. I started to realise that I hadn’t fallen from grace, I had fallen into it. I was no less righteous; I had simply lost my sense of self righteousness. Yes, there were consequences but I became increasingly aware that Jesus had come to give me hope and to help me to be accountable to all these consequences.
So, grace became my only anchor, sort of like lifeboat drill. When you’re a sailor and you do lifeboat drill it is usually in an Olympic swimming pool, but when you are in the middle of Bass Strait, you suddenly discover how effective this lifeboat is.
And so the phrase, “Lord, I come to you,” I was saying that in frustration. “Oh Lord I’m sorry. I should be there with you but I’m not. Here I come again. I come to you again.” And then the prayer, “Lord, hold me close” is like saying “Please hold me close because I don’t think you are holding me close at the moment. I think perhaps you turned away again because you are as frustrated with me as I am.”
The wonderful truth is that the “Lord you come to me to let my heart be changed, renewed flowing from the grace that I found in you” that the “weaknesses that I see in me are being stripped away by the power of your love.” Isn’t that so wonderful? Sometimes I wonder if we simply don’t understand what God has already done for us in Jesus.
So I changed that song to a confession of what God has done. It’s not “hold me close” but “you hold me close”. No matter how dry and disappointed I am, to be able to say to myself, “It’s okay, he’s holding you. You’re depressed, life is tough, but nothing’s changed between you and God. You’re not a disappointment.” And perhaps that also relates back to my experience with my father.
You would hope every Christian, certainly evangelicals, would be pleased that you are looking for ways to ground your songs in God’s word, because if they are not Scriptural we should not be singing them. However, in the case of The Power of Your Love, and I’m thinking in particular of that line you mentioned: “Lord I come to you,” Jesus said in Matthew 11:28, “Come to me all you who are weary and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.” So the idea of us coming to God is not un-Biblical, therefore there is no need to completely re-hash all of your songs is there?
No, but you see the greatest thing about Jesus saying “Come to me,” is he wasn’t calling to me from the other end of heaven waiting for me to work and struggle all the way to him. Jesus came to mankind to say “Come to me”. And that’s outrageous when you really think about that. God put on flesh to come personally. I mean, he could have sent a postcard, he could have written in the sky, but he came personally to dwell as a human being.
Jesus has come to hold us close, to draw us to his side, to comfort us, to speak healing to our wounded souls. He comes propelled by a mission of such eternal and unconditional love.
For this current generation, singing in church has become synonymous with worship. Why is that? And how would you describe the current state of Christian music?
First, I think we need to look at ‘worship’ again. And I think ‘worship’ as our response to Jesus could be a whole lot of other things before we turn it into songs. The intimacy between a husband and wife is expressed many ways before it becomes a love song and that love song will speak of a life of love rather than a love song about love itself.
And I think we’re in error here. I’m not saying don’t sing or play. I think that’s fabulous; it gets down into the soul. Many of the lyrics we sing are great theological truths, mind you, many of them aren’t, but if we could get a grip on God becoming flesh to come to us, Jesus living a life of grace, love, forgiveness, mercy with his last dying words announcing forgiveness and then living a life that responds to his life. How wonderful could that be.
For me worship is my response to the grace of Jesus. This response is my choice to become gracious, to become loving, accepting, merciful, forgiving. This journey needs grace for every step, however, this journey will start its work of transformation in me and hopefully through my life: a worship that flows from grace becoming graciousness in us. A worship that is seen in our relationships with the world around us. A worship that cries “grace” to our leaders, the media, our friends and our enemies.
Does this mean we don’t sing anymore? Not at all. It simply means that our songs are more about worship rather than being worship. Yes, of course there is time for celebration, for adoration, for a corporate time of singing songs of love thankfulness but we will be on a wonderful journey discovering that there is so much more than we have ever realised. I think our songs would be more wonderful, but I think our worship lives would be even more wondrous and I think the way the church’s interaction with our world could be far more a work of love than us simply singing songs on a Sunday morning.
So now I’m wondering what elements have to go in to make a good Christian song. Is it difficult to write a song which has both a good “hook” and good theology?
Yes it is. I must admit, these days I write from experience first, or from meditation first. Almost every song I write is about brokenness being repaired in the most extraordinary way. So I start, I suppose, with my own sense of being overwhelmed with who God is when I see him from my own brokenness.
Then I try and work that into good poetry that has flow, a little bit of repetition but especially that each line contains a picture that is bigger than the words. Then, working that into a melody that can fly; that can float, so you can close your eyes and be caught up in just a beautiful melody.
Or you can turn the melody off, just read the words and become caught up in the words: a piece of poetry. But you put it together and I suppose I hope that people go, “Oh, my goodness, that’s me. How wonderful!” That it hits their life, not just their soul.
You have been a Christian for over 30 years. You’ve had highs and lows. Looking back over that time, what can you say you have learnt about God and what advice would you give to a young Christian about how they should prioritise their life?
What I’ve learnt about God is just the overwhelming amazement that God would do the Jesus story. He didn’t have to. He just didn’t have to. He lived in this huge creation of trillions and trillions of stars and constellations and whatever. That God would make a bee line to broken people finds me simply awestruck!
It appears to me that Jesus did not come to establish Christianity, he did not come to start a movement, he came to meet one person here, and one person there. Broken people, hopeless people, people like me, like you. Jesus did not come to reward us; there’s no reward in it. He came to give hope and he came to affirm the most unlikely people.
Perhaps that’s one of the reasons why he was crucified, because he put everybody’s nose out of joint, he was a disappointment to so many people who wanted a messiah in the image of their needs and theologies. Jesus was not a preacher of righteousness, he was a bringer of hope to the unrighteous, the poor in spirit. He didn’t start a campaign to overthrow the Romans, he affirmed a Roman centurion as having more faith than all of Israel.
He allowed a prostitute to anoint him with oil with her hair… Jesus was decidedly “ungodly”. This Jesus excites me because the more I look at him, the more I meditate on his life, the more grace I see.And that’s a growing thing, it continues in my life. This is the truth, it’s not just something I’ve learnt to do to get myself seminars & concerts. It is a constant source of amazement.
So I would say to a young Christian, “Look, this is different to any other relationship you’ve got. You don’t have to prove yourself worthy. You don’t have to dress up, know the right words to say or the right actions to make. You are totally free to be just who you are. You don’t have to have faith. There is no hurry. Ahead of you is a lifetime of discovery. Jesus offers his life, he holds it out to you. It’s free. It’s a gift. God comes to bring hope to the good times and the bad times, the times when we make mistakes, some truly awful mistakes. This Jesus shows us an acceptance that gives us the hope that we can walk forward with his comfort, his peace, his grace and his love. I have found that, in my life, a life that has had its considerable challenges, that I am slowly being renewed and transformed. And that’s really quite amazing.
Geoff, thank you for what you have given in service of the kingdom over the years and for enriching the lives of so many congregations who have sung your songs over and over. We pray the Lord will bless your ministry in whatever time remains. May you make the most of it.
Thank you for the opportunity of being part of what you are doing. And if you hear of anybody who wants that message, you know where I am.
Source: By Terry Allen, Geoff Bullock opens up…, Christian Faith, http://www.christianfaith.com/resources/geoff-bullock-opens-up, Published 29/09/2010. (Accessed 20/09/2015.)
Once again, Brian Houston comes across as an unstable man, ruling with an iron fist in a movement where he demands things are done his way. If Geoff Bullock was his “best friend”, why did Brian Houston and his empire destroy him? Why is everything always about Brian Houston? How come Houston is the victim… again?
Geoff Bullock repented of his sins and sought reconciliation to those he damaged. However, Brian Houston still refuses to show any sign of the Holy Spirit. No conviction of sin. No repentance. No seeking reconciliation of those he has destroyed.
Only lies, slander and cover up in his books and on national television. Lastly, if this is the way Brian Houston treats his “best friend”, you have to wonder how he treats people he doesn’t know.
Bro. Lewis said:
“Many people desire to make an impact on the generations but rely on old vehicles to get there. Imagine me trying to fulfil my overseas speaking engagements via my original scooter or bicycle! YOU NEED THE RIGHT VEHICLE AND THE RIGHT ASSOCIATIONS TO ENABLE GOD TO TAKE YOU FORWARD. You may have a great vision to impact the earth, but alone you cannot do as much as you could together with others.”
“Old vehicles?” How foolish. What a lie. That is not biblical, it is making up ridiculous theories by someone who has no clue (Brian Houston). Moses was alone and running away for fear of his life when God informed Moses what Moses was to do, Elijah was alone and running away for fear of his life and the same thing happened. Didn’t God use them? God met them wherever they were. God chooses the time and the place. It did not matter where that was. THAT’S how God works. He uses whomsoever He chooses, and he doesn’t need “vehicles” or “associations.” These are the kinds of stories one makes up when they cannot properly exegete the Scriptures, they must and often do resort to prescribing cute little anecdotes instead.
“Of course getting my first car was an unforgettable moment in my life. It was a ’57 Austin A50. It was also green and it cost me $650.”
So who paid for your $5,000 Harley, Brian? He seems to imply he “used” to be “that” more unsuccessful way, but “now” God has brought him much “further in his success.” It’s all Hogwash!
As usual, Brian Houston’s teachings do not match up with what is in the Bible. In fact you rarely, if ever, notice *any* resemblance between the two. I am not sure why anyone would even care to follow after Brian Houston, except that he seems to attract loads of tares.
Good point. According to Houston’s logic – spiritual success equals material reward – Jesus should have been sitting on the stallion to beat all stallions in the whole world.
Instead in the week leading up to Jesus’ crucifixion He arrived in Jerusalem, sitting on a ass or donkey. (See John 12:14-15).
ray e jones said:
That is a valid point. I don’t recall Jesus’ disciples ever measuring their ‘success’ in dollars or physical wealth.
Perhaps ‘Ps’ Brian Houston would like to give a ‘sermon’ on how Peter’s crucifixion upside-down equated to material success.
I agree Bro Lewis – it’s all hogwash – full of mud and murky water – a typical kind of “wash” to be found pooling into little ponds near any Hill$ong incident…
Speaking about Hill$ong music nowadays, there’s an interesting article written by Bruce Herwig on his rather small blog, but as it turns out, this article has generated some attention since June 2015. It’s well worth the short read it takes to get it all in:
What is even more interesting, is the whole series of comments, both for and against the article’s thrust, that of exposing Hill$ong music and it’s ungodly content and usage. In particular,the following comment, shines a light on Brian Houston’s preaching, as opposed to the music back in the late 1990’s (mainly Geoff Bullock’s compositions at that time)
In and amongst the commenters at that thread, there are your typical ignorant ‘Hill$ongers’ as well as a few ardent fans who will defend this cult to the bitter end, and of course, the usual Hill$ong troll supporters – blind as bats, the lot of them… and then there’s those who have ‘seen the light’ – Hillsong’s support for gays et al.
So what’s the point of posting all of this?
Well for starters, there are people the world over, who know that there’s something very wrong with Hillsong – and it’s just not about the money. They have learned to discern, just as many of us have – the hard way. Get your fingers burnt once or twice and you won’t go back for more (deception).
It’s the ‘doctrine’ and the deliberate intention to deceive, and not just to deceive the simple, but to deceive everybody in the auditorium, including some very ‘fat sheep’ – the rich in the congregation, so you can finance the next “move of God” (or a holiday to your favourite destination – whichever occurs first.) 🙂
To deceive them into believing that Hill$ong is a Christ honouring church, who spends their ‘tithe’ money wisely, who is a stranger to scandal and controversy, who “saves” thousands of sinners each week, the world over – it is not. It shows all the hallmarks of a cult, and none of the graces of a truly Christ honouring church at all…
That’s the point…
Their current crop of music is more suitable for a worldly rock concert, apart from the odd ‘slow song’ which they have to inject into the mix for appearances sake.
So much for Brian and Bobby ‘telling the truth’ in their other books…
What We Believe
Statement of Beliefs
We believe that the Bible is God’s Word. It is accurate, authoritative and applicable to our everyday lives.
We believe in one eternal God who is the Creator of all things. He exists in three Persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. He is totally loving and completely holy.
We believe that sin has separated each of us from God and His purpose for our lives.
We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ as both God and man is the only One who can reconcile us to God. He lived a sinless and exemplary life, died on the cross in our place, and rose again to prove His victory and empower us for life.
We believe that in order to receive forgiveness and the ‘new birth’ we must repent of our sins, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and submit to His will for our lives.
We believe that in order to live the holy and fruitful lives that God intends for us, we need to be baptised in water and be filled with the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit enables us to use spiritual gifts, including speaking in tongues.
We believe in the power and significance of the Church and the necessity of believers to meet regularly together for fellowship, prayer and the ‘breaking of bread’.
We believe that God has individually equipped us so that we can successfully achieve His purpose for our lives which is to worship God, fulfil our role in the Church and serve the community in which we live.
We believe that God wants to heal and transform us so that we can live healthy and blessed lives in order to help others more effectively.
We believe that our eternal destination of either Heaven or hell is determined by our response to the Lord Jesus Christ.
We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is coming back again as He promised.
Hillsong Church is a member of the Australian Christian Churches. A movement of almost 1100 churches and more than 250,000 believers across Australia. For the ACC’s full constitution, history, leadership and statement of belief, please visit: http://www.acc.org.au
hillsong is a cult said:
That text is standard. It is meaningless when posted by churches who don’t abide by it.
There’s no point showing us the sheepskin when we’re pointing out the wolf hiding beneath it.
@Luke – Luke, did you not see this thread from 21st of August?:
Perhaps this will help you to see how invalid a mere ‘statement of belief’ can be. If those who publish such a statement have no intention of following closely in practice, what they have already put in print.
Then any such statement is meaningless, unless of course, the original intention was to use it as a convenient smoke screen, just in case anyone asked…
What a wonderful testimony Geoff Bullock has, despite his personal difficulties and difficult history with his previous church. Probably this is the only comment that I had some discomfort with:
“Yes it is. I must admit, these days I write from experience first, or from meditation first. Almost every song I write is about brokenness being repaired in the most extraordinary way. So I start, I suppose, with my own sense of being overwhelmed with who God is when I see him from my own brokenness.”
It sounds like they’re still mostly from his personal experiences. That is his strength after all and it sounds like he’s following God’s will for him personally.
If only there was a way to get more theologians to work alongside musicians to write modern Christian songs together (if modern music is that church’s style).e.g.like Gilbert (story/ lyrics) and Sullivan (music) wrote their operas together! It shouldn’t be one (head knowledge about Christian doctrine) against the other (personal experience). It should be both so that “thinkers” , “feelers”, and anyone in-between are all ministered to during worship part of church service.
It would make sense for Geoff Bullock to head down the dangerous road of liberalism. Sadly, with the absence of Christian churches in Australia, a liberal or Uniting church will attract the broken and the hurting. A lot of C3 and Hillsong people end up in these cults because they are attracted to the lack of structure, the loving community and the sense of finding self and purpose in society again. They meet people with similar stories, values and beliefs but don’t know how to read the scriptures in regarding faith, church structure, discipline and authority. We believe this is how Geoff Bullock ended up.
Like we’ve been saying through all our sites, many Christians are caught up in dangerous heresies and cults. The sheep may have difficulty discerning Christiniaty from man’s philosophy but through it all, recognise the Shepherds voice.
We have known Geoff from the early days – and we are convinced that he will remain faithful to Jesus til the end in spite of his liberal leanings.
He desperately clings to Jesus and this is still reflected in his music and various creative expressions. We would love it if people kept praying for Geoff Bullock as he keeps battling on. This man has gone through a lot in Jesus’ name and has blessed so many people with his ministry and has also done his best to reconcile his relationships that he damaged at Hillsong.
He shows the fruit of keeping with repentance. He is aware of his sin and his need for Jesus. Please love him, support him, pray for him and be there for him if you know him.
what you say about Geoff Bullock is so true, lets really face facts here if it wasent for Geoff Bullock, there wouldnt be no hillsong music he was the one who started it all off with Russell Fragar back in 1992.
the 1st 4 hillsong albums were all Geoffs songs until 1995, its been 20 years since Geoff stood down as the worship pastor at hillsong. Russell Fragar produced the 1st 10 albums before he left for america in 2001. Darlene Zschech took over. Geoff, Russell and Darlene none of them are in hillsong anymore.
Rueben Morgan and Joel Houston are the main global worship pastors now. where would hillsong be without their music.
because they dont preach the gospel, they are devoid of it.
This is one of the most disturbing comments I read within the thread:
“Eventually, a Hillsong board member had lunch with Geoff. ‘We tried to destroy you,’ he told him. ‘until we realised you weren’t a threat.’ Geoff continues to work and write music, though he gave up performing years ago.”
How could anyone who claimed to represent the Kingdom of God, tell a former member that “We tried to destroy you…”? What was more important than the well-being of Geoff Bullock at that time?
Hill$ong’s public image, of course. Worshiping an image is idolatry according to the scriptures, so Bullock was sacrificed on the altar of Mammon so that this controversy would be hushed up and the flow of tithe money would continue at his expense…
Another disturbing part was this one:
“Hillsong did everything in its power to prevent his future success. Due to speak at a bible college occasion soon after leaving, he received a phone call with a sudden apology. Hillsong had informed the bible college that any associations with Geoff Bullock meant no further association with Hillsong.
Christian magazines were told the same thing. Piles of the CD Geoff was about to release were found dumped at a tip in Blacktown, not far from Hillsong headquarters.”
It wasn’t enough to deliberately nobble Geoff’s preaching opportunities outside of the Hill$ong system. This “Charismatic cabal” went all the way to trashing his musical promotional opportunities as well… How could Brian Houston claim to be anyone’s “friend” with those kind of carnal and unspiritual tactics in play?
Then there’s the lies told about Geoff in relation to an adulterous relationship, which Houston has always maintained happened before he left, but which Geoff Bullock staunchly denies. He said in one of his online testimonials that the affair happened some months AFTER he left, and not before.
More lies from Brian and Barby, but then again, what can you expect from those who have lied so much and for so long, about so many things…? Their end will be in the lake of fire, unless they repent…
“But as for the:
cowardly, (can’t face anyone and admit the truth)
the faithless, (preaches hyper faith, not true abiding faith)
the detestable, (the media exposures have made Brian detestable)
as for murderers, (if you hate your brother you might as well have killed him)
the sexually immoral, (kingdom Women Love Sex)
sorcerers, idolaters, (Colour Conferences, worshiping worship itself)
and all liars, (no need to explain this one…)
their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
hillsong is a cult said:
“More lies from Brian and Barby, but then again, what can you expect from those who have lied so much and for so long, about so many things…? Their end will be in the lake of fire, unless they repent…”
Compare Brian and Barby’s actions toward Geoff, to Barby’s words…
“… For the next several months it was as though demons came out of the woodwork on every front. When attacks come from every side it is a sure sign that you are doing something right (which is contrary to some people’s belief). We experienced a barrage of attack-cancer, accidents, stinking thinking,”
Hillsong ‘church’ is a selfish lie. It’s ok for the Houstons to attack others, but when they believe they are attacked “it is a sure sign that you are doing something right.”
That double-standard behavior is pretty Sick. And it’s not in the Bible.
LUKE 6:31 “And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.”
Barby needs to read the Bible.
Churchwatcher this old poem came to mind to describe spiritual etiology of “seeker-sensitive churches” (and Hillsong is an extreme example):
For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost.
For want of a message the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.
(1). For want of a nail the shoe was lost. [TRUE preacher sent from GOD (e.g. not just self ambition, knows *and loves* all scripture AND has good morals)* lost –> 5 Solas** lost –> belief in God’s GRACE never learnt or lost/ legalism starts]
(2). For want of a shoe the horse was lost. [Grace lost/ legalism starts – peace lost/ trust in God’s forgiveness of sins*** stops –> NO teaching on uncomfortable doctrines (for preacher personally)/ teachings on earning favour from God/ church start, adds flesh-pleasing experiences to sweeten the legalism e.g. “must tithe to earn God’s favour” via service built around musicians’ performance, not preaching]
(3). For want of a horse the rider was lost [first sheep seeing warning signs i.e. true believers leave in protest ****/ thrown out of church for their troublemaking, negativity, “not agreeing with God’s vision for us etc.” –>more goats gained –> more church teachings disliked by non-believers discarded–> more sheep leave, HUGE numbers of goats arrive –> false impression church is growing spiritually, becomes vicious circle]
(4). For want of a rider the message was lost. [more goats/ much fewer sheep -> pseudo Gospel/ fake Gospel replaces original Gospel completely –> goats needs’ absolute top priority because they’re new customers, more customers = $$$$$$).
(5). For want of the message the battle was lost. [pseudo Gospel/ false Gospel ONLY–> fake converts –> cannot defend the Christian faith at all, only their pseudo-faith–> no salt/ light influence****]
(6).For want of a battle the kingdom was lost. [unable to defend faith/ NO difference between “those Christian hypocrites” and unsaved people –> the unsaved world rejects Christianity overall [assumes pseudo-church teaches the same Gospel as rest of them] –> spiritual battle lost]
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail. i.e. true preachers. Hirelings and false teachers abound in people-pleasing churches.******
* Romans 10:15, James 3:1,1 Timothy 3:1-7
*** 1 John 1:9, Romans 8:1, Hebrews 4:14-16
**** 2 Corinthians 6:14-18
***** Matthew 5:13-16
****** Difference between good shepherd and hireling. John 10:1-18
Sin is sin yes. Doesn’t mean we condemn. Jesus also says “let the first among you that is without sin cast the first stone.”
When it comes to sin, it’s all sin in God’s eyes. Your sin and my sin are no less. Love and walking through life with them is the only answer. If we are going to outcast and condemn all who have sinned and fallen short of God’s glory, then our churches will be empty. Grace my friend, read about. Doesn’t get rid of sin, but it allows us to walk through it with each other in hopes we can overcome.
Fact: the Bible clearly says that homosexuality is a sin.
Fact: The Church is supposed to open its doors to everyone, including homosexuals.
Fact: Although everyone is allowed to attend, the Bible lays down specific guidelines for those who want to be pastors and ministers in the church. They must stand blameless before God and live according to his word.
The Bible clearly prohibits homosexuality. Therefore, a person who openly practices homosexuality does not have the right to minister to others if they themselves are not right before the Lord. And this applies to every other sin, not just homosexually.
I can understand why Carl Lentz refuses to make a public opinion on the subject of homosexuality, because the goal is to encourage sinners to come, not scare them away. However, it is unacceptable to allow those men to continue to serve in the church.
Statement from Brian Houston – Senior Pastor, Hillsong Church Re: recent media comments on homosexuality
I encourage people not to assume a media headline accurately represents what I said at a recent press conference.
Nowhere in my answer did I diminish biblical truth or suggest that I or Hillsong Church supported gay marriage. I challenge people to read what I actually said, rather than what was reported that I said. My personal view on the subject of homosexuality would line up with most traditionally held Christian views. I believe the writings of Paul are clear on this subject.
I was asked a question on how the church can stay relevant in the context of gay marriage being legal in the two states of the USA where we have campuses. My answer was simply an admission of reality – no more and no less. I explained that this struggle for relevance was vexing as we did not want to become ostracized by a world that needs Christ.
I made the point that public statements condemning people will place a barrier between the church and the world (and I note that Jesus came to save and not to condemn), which is why at Hillsong, we don’t want to reduce the real issues in people’s lives to a sound bite.
@Crackerjack – there’s just one thing wrong with your last three posts – none of them are relevant to the current thread. It’s currently about what Brian Houston did to/said about Geoff Bullock.
But just to address the last paragraph of your last post:
“I made the point that public statements condemning people will place a barrier between the church and the world (and I note that Jesus came to save and not to condemn), which is why at Hillsong, we don’t want to reduce the real issues in people’s lives to a sound bite.”
For starters, Jesus did condemn the religious hypocrites of his day – the Pharisees – those self righteous people, who disguised themselves in religious costumes, who were, in fact, the very ones who brought the woman caught in adultery to Jesus in the first place! Jesus certainly condemned them on numerous occasions.
Secondly, Jesus always welcomed repentant sinners, as those who had a true change of heart. Consider Zachaeus – a dreaded and hated tax collector. Jesus invited himself to that man’s house for dinner, and Zachaeus, being convicted of his sinful and money grubbing way of life, repented, promising to repay four times that which he had robbed from his own countrymen. When will Brian Houston do that???
In your first post, you said:
“If we are going to outcast and condemn all who have sinned and fallen short of God’s glory, then our churches will be empty.”
But that’s not the point Crackerjack. If you preached the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, in your church and all of those ‘sinners’ you mentioned actually heard it, they may well repent, be forgiven by God and then have no need to feel condemned at all.
It’s the preaching of the Gospel that saves Crackerjack, not Brian Houston’s lifeless, motivational speaking…
“8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART “– that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.…” Romans 10:8,9,10
So why all of the ‘baubles and nonsense’ at Hillsong Crackerjack?
Geoff Bullock attended the 30 year anniversary of Hillsong Church in 2013 at the Hills campus as a special guest of Brian Houston. Houston acknowledged and thanked a very select number of people on that night – Bullock was one of the select few. And Bullock wrote on Twitter that he enjoyed that night and had fond memories of his time at Hillsong.
You falsely state that that interview with Geoff was back in 2015, when it is actually from 2010. Seems you are trying to make out it is a recent interview when it is not. Is it possible for you to speak to Geoff Bullock and get his current opinion of Brian Houston and Hillsong? It would nice to hear what he thinks now. It may well be the same as he thought six years ago, but we won’t know until you ask him.
One falsehood you have concocted which is easily disproved is about the name Hillsong. When the music changed names from Hills, it was originally Hillsongs, not Hillsong. A seach for Hillsong on the National Library of Australia database finds the earliest recordings they hold are by Hillsongs Australia.
Geoff Bullock came up with the name Hillsongs.
“He has also been promoting the lie that he started CLC/Hillsong (switching histories to suit whatever agenda). He also insists that he founded his church at Hills in 1983. This is now being refuted as well.”
Frank Houston clearly started the Sydney Christian Life Centre and was the catalyst for the subsequent Christian Life Centres in suburban Sydney. That is a fact easily proved. There are newspaper articles from the early 1980s about Frank Houston’s church, easily found on the SMH archives that proves this. Brian Houston has always said his father started the Sydney Christian Life Centre and that he, Brian, was sent out to plant churches – which he did on the north shore, in Liverpool and near Riverstone. Brian Houston then planted the church at Baulkham Hills. You’re writing rubbish.
If Brian Houston didn’t start the Hills Christian Life Centre as you are insinuating, then who are you claiming did? You can’t write something like that and not supply even one story to back up your claim.
Geoff Bullock said:
Let me clarify a few things. Firstly and most importantly the last time I met with Brian was in November 2013 and we spent the whole afternoon having an honest and vulnerable conversation. I left Brian that evening feeling that we had really connected and that he understood my regrets and disappointments as much as he understood my reasons for leaving. I have always maintained that I had to leave, but I have also said on many occasions that I deeply regret the way that I left. I was invited to the 30th anniversary and was thanked publicly and privately many times. I really thought we had finally healed the old wounds. I am once again truly disappointed by Brian’s recent words. Words that have been broadcast with me having no right of reply. However, I understand his pain and sense of betrayal and I am so sorry that he is still struggling. Secondly, my royalties are not advancing. My songs are slowly fading into the past. Some of the dates in your article are wrong. Most of the interviews and quotes are from 10 years ago or more. The name “Hillsong” was simply the name of our music group. I came up with that name in the summer of 1984/85 whilst floating around a swimming pool with Brian. Darlene and Mark Zschech were not part of the team until a year later. The church was then called Hills Christian Life Centre. I didn’t start Hillsong, I simply ran the music department and made up the name. The church eventually adopted my little logo and the rest is history. In the end, as I read your article I regret the whole episode. I wish I had remained silent, I wish that I wasn’t so open and , even more so, 20 years after my departure, wish that I wasn’t once again being drawn into the glare of opinion and debate.
If your pastor was not a liar and stopped playing word games, then their would be no confusion over this. We are calling him a liar on this issue because he wants the authority of his father when it suits him.
When the issue of paedophilia comes up, it’s “Hillsong” that magically started in 1983. No backstory provided.
We will wade through with what you have said and compare it to what Houston said at the Royal Commission, his sermons and books and see if who’s lying. Is that alright with you?
Don’t accuse us of falsehood if it is you and your immoral leadership that aren’t up front with the facts. It is hard to find out the truth thanks to your “pastor”.
Please do. If you are accusing Brian Houston of not starting the Hills Christian Life Centre then you need to say more than just make an unsubstantiated accusation.
Frank Houston started the Sydney Christian Life Centre. Brian was still in New Zealand at the time. Which you would have to agree with.
“stopped playing word games”
You guys, only God knows how many of you there are now deceptively using the same name, use word games all the time. Do you really think that God is impressed with your show pony attitudes, you’re better than everyone else, that you can quote the Bible backwards (as can Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Muslims, for their own purposes) but Jesus said to pray in private not in public and show off, with you slagging off near everyone you come across even your supporters on these websites, and as we have found out demean someone you claim to be in sympathy with? Jesus will judge you, because I can’t, only God can. You pretty well know what my opinion is.
Law, Law, Law. That is all you are about. You may as well be Messianic Jews , because there sure isn’t much grace coming through these pages.
“but Jesus said to pray in private not in public and show off”
What good would it do to walk around quoting verses to yourself? Did not Jesus Himself speak verses in public in the synagogue? Did not Paul publicly preach at the Acropolis? Why do you equate verses quoted in public to showing off? Is that something you learned from jealous Brian, because he can’t quote verses either?
“only God knows how many of you there are now deceptively using the same name,”
Oh come now, that’s not true, Churchwatchers know also. How is it ‘deceptively’ when this has been openly published time and again and with the reasons why (family members still there, etc).
“Law, Law, Law. That is all you are about”
Show one person here saying you get saved through the Law. You are such a stranger to preaching against remaining in sin, that anytime anyone mentions turning from sin that’s so foreign to you, you believe they’re pushing the Law. Shame!
“You may as well be Messianic Jews”
Uh oh. Treading on thin ice now. Knocking all Messianic Jews? There is a BIG difference between a Messianic Jew and a Judaizer. The Messianic Jews would love to hear that bigoted remark. I know many and they are all FINE Christians. And they all know the Bible much better than you.
‘Do you really think that God is impressed with your show pony attitudes, you’re better than everyone else.’
I don’t know, newtaste.
Is God impressed with the supercilious holier-than-thou attitude of Brian Houston, who has never been shy of looking down his nose at others or condemning other churches as being “dead”? Is God impressed with Brian’s concocted Gospel, where money talks and bums on seats is what makes one a “success”? Is God impressed with braggart Brian’s bullying and threats? Is God impressed with the favouritism that Brian shows for celebrities? Is God impressed with the fact that Brian worships money, and that victims of his cult are co-opted into this idolatry under duress? Is God impressed with the fact that Brian has earned a very comfortable living by making merchandise of the Gospel? Is God impressed with Brian’s obduracy in his entirely self-interested and altogether willful mishandling of Scripture? Is God impressed with Brian’s blasphemies?
‘… there sure isn’t much grace coming through these pages.’
And to what extent do you think that Brian Houston will be the beneficiary of grace on the day he is judged? Brian is an impenitent apostate who has charted his course for destruction, and unless he repents he will burn.
‘You pretty well know what my opinion is.’
We do, and we well know how ill-informed and worthless it is. If you persist in worshipping the fake pastor Brian Houston, you run the risk that you will share in his eventual fate.
We understand you want to get on with your life and not be dragged into this. And it is very sad to see Brian Houston use you in his book yet again to swipe at you and then to also to do this publicly on “Christian” television.
Did Brian Houston contact you before putting information about you in his book?
If you don’t wont to respond, we understand.
“I really thought we had finally healed the old wounds.”
Unfortunately, we are dealing with Brian Houston.
“I am once again truly disappointed by Brian’s recent words. Words that have been broadcast with me having no right of reply. ”
We are too. Our conscience was torn about publishing this – but noticed that it was starting to circulate on other sites as well. This is why we put up your earlier interview so that you didn’t have to defend yourself publicly again. We thought you spoke well.
We know you have gone through a lot. We sincerely apologise if this has caused you unnecessary hurt. We are actually upset for you in this Hillsong debacle and hope that Houston repents and reconciles with those he has hurt.
Unfortunately, this site is dedicated in pointing out how abusive Brian Houston is with people inside and outside his “church”. You’re not the first casualty.
If there is anything you want us to change in this article, or if you are uncomfortable dialogue with us publicly, feel free to email us.
We want to do the right thing by you. We know you are going through a lot.
“Fact: Although everyone is allowed to attend, the Bible lays down specific guidelines for those who want to be pastors and ministers in the church. They must stand blameless before God and live according to his word.”
Okay, so this disqualifies Brian Houston for multiple reasons, not the least of which being….
1. He appears unable to teach the Bible: 1 Timothy 3:2 – “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;”
2. He has displayed greed and covetousness: 1 Timothy 3:3 – “Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;”
3. He has earned a from-controversial-to-aweful reputation to many from without, including many media. They have nothing good to say about him: 1 Timothy 3:7 – “Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.”
4. He has slandered Christians including Geoff Bullock: 1 Timothy 3:7 – “Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
“You’re writing rubbish…” No Newtaste – it is you that constantly and consistently writes “rubbish” on this blog, not us! This blog preaches the Gospel, and exposes false prophets and teachers. You deny the truth of the Gospel and use most of your ‘airtime’ here to defend false prophets and their money making cults. Shame on you…
I’m amazed Newtaste as to how you can think for one minute, that Brian’s poor and outright shabby treatment of “his best friend” in the past, can in any way be negated by ‘fresh’ moves at reconciliation in the present. It’s all just “shop window dressing” on Houston’s part, as there’s been a few too many revealing ‘interviews’ with Geoff in the last ten or so years, hasn’t there???
Corralling honest sheep inside the goat’s pen of Hill$ong just doesn’t look good now, does it??? That’s where you belong Newtaste, not Geoff Bullock…
(Typical and masterful obfuscation by Newtaste folks – newbies take heed!)
Consider the knock on effect (much like when the balls on a billiard table have been scattered after the “break”,) and there may well be repercussions even now, still bouncing around from the past.
Geoff Bullock may have made some bad choices in terms of his behaviour towards others, (under extreme pressure from his “best friend” Brian,) as well as in terms of his personal relationships, (which Houston lied about, after Bullock had left Hillsong) but Geoff repented – and publicly at that, and is a changed man for his repentance.
When will the Houstons finally come clean and admit that they made a maximum effort “to destroy” Geoff Bullock? No amount of sugar coating the past will hide the truth from anyone who really wants to know it – not even from you, Newtaste…
May God richly increase Geoff Bullock’s ever growing royalties at Hill$ong$ expense, in that regard, as a testimony to the fact that God sees all, hears all and has forgiven and vindicated this very talented man…
“You can’t write something like that and not supply even one story to back up your claim.”
Why Newtaste? In your hundreds of posts you still are unable to supply verses to back up your claims. Hypocrite.
At least Apollo can string two words together and is obviously intelligent.
Troaz, and that ADHD who threatened violence against me, are disgusting trolls.
All comments will be deleted if the interaction isn’t civil and on topic.
Stop pouting like a child Newtaste. What I said was true and you know it. As others have stated many times (including your friend Apollo whom you boast about), your hypocrisy speaks for itself.
And as far as intelligence goes, I don’t quote Druids. Nobody else here except you quotes Druids.
That is very strange for one who calls himself a Christian, to quote a Druid like Rowan Williams.
First it was cult leader Brian Houston, now you have progressed even to Druids.
I apologise, because I wrong. I meant NT Wright, not Williams.
Of course Brians ok with homosexuals he was ok with protecting his pedophile fathers carryings on aswell .What is wrong with the ACC? The filthy Houstons should of been ousted from the Aog years ago Or is there more filth to be uncovered? Or is it the $$$ Houstons bring in that makes it palatable for them to turn a blind eye for the sake of the $$$$$? Houstons/hill$ong ACC/AOG you are absolutely disgusting….
“Houstons/hill$ong ACC/AOG you are absolutely disgusting….”
I will 2nd that. Amen.
Would you like to be best friends with Brian Houston?
Are you hoping he’ll dump me if I was?
Every “friend” of Brian Houstons has a use-by date, newtaste.
It’s never a case of “if”, but of “when” – it’s only a matter of time. Brian is a user, and once someone is no longer useful to him, they are discarded like a pair of worn-out shoes.
I’m surprised that you are not bright enough to understand that.
So when do you anticipate him dumping his son Ben? They have referred to each other as best friends.
That’s an argument? Hillsong apologist strikes again and misses.
Hi @Troaz – Newtaste and I certainly aren’t ‘friends’ and if you read the spaces where our posts follow each other, you’ll see that…
I believe in the Gospel that Jesus and the apostles preached, and I don’t believe that Hill$ong is a genuine church.
It is a false church, which has all the hall marks of a cult and it is definitely run along business lines. I don’t want to have to waste time and space on the blog explaining this again.
As for the topic at hand, yes thanks Geoff, for posting your comments on this thread and it must still hurt sometimes, for you to see it in print, but you were not wrong to do those interviews. You have probably prevented thousands and thousands of ignorant people from swallowing Hill$ong’s lies, and becoming the victims of their false doctrines and money making practices.
There is much at stake, as you know, in terms of the Houstons influence, which is now global, and their deliberate deceptions which are also global. Even if the ‘Churchwatcher’ websites had remained silent on this latest debacle, many others would not have.
So it is with a healthy respect for you and all that you have sacrificed that I comment, and not so as to prolong any suffering on your part. The truth concerning Hill$ong must be told, until its members finally see through the haze of lies and deception and then begin to leave en masse, and God is more than able to sight to those who are spiritually blinded.
I had to escape from a communal cult once, way back in 1988 and it took me six years to recover from that episode, but God turned it all to good, and now I am free from the legalism and bondage that resulted from such cultish involvement.
It cost me family, (the death of my own father, in the aftermath,) a small business that I had at that time, and friends that I had fellowshiped with for years, but in the end it was worth it all, to expose a number of “false profit”ministries on the Australian landscape.
We can take comfort from the words of scripture, if we have suffered loss because we stood apart from the crowd, for the cause of Jesus Christ:
“9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.”
From elsewhere on this site :
” Christmas Eve 1994 was the end for Bullock. He had rehearsed the choir and band to play the standard church repertoire for three Christmas services. Just hours before the first service, Houston discovered Bullock had not rehearsed traditional Christmas carols. “He just tore me to shreds and then left me to do three services,” Bullock says. Houston got his Christmas carols that night, but it finished his partnership with Bullock. ”
So there were deep problems between Brian Houston and Geoff Bullock in late December 1994, but Brian and Bobbie Houston said they were surprised when six months later in July 1995 Geoff Bullock suddenly told them he was leaving. Why did it take Bullock six months to leave? And why was Bobbie Houston apparently ignorant of there being any problems between Geoff Bullock and Brian Houston? Maybe you guys can ask Bullock when you do a fresh interview with him.
I posted this before I noticed Geoff Bullock’s comment. In light of his comment, I’lI make no further comment about this.
Newtaste – it seems it’s your habit NOT to read comments that are not immediate to yours. Perhaps you should try to pay more attention in future.
church watcher, thank you for pointing that out. I’ll make sure I have a double shot cappuccino before I read this website.
Hey wait a sec.
Previously you guys said hillsong music was evil, but yet a ton of it was written by Geoff.
You guys are tricking us aren’t you?
You’re not really sure what your on about and the facts are wishy washy…..huh?
I never said that Geoff Bullock’s music was evil. Houston worked hard to discredit Bullock with lies, and also nobbled his ministry opportunities, then allegedly hijacked the ”Hillsongs’ music collection and logo and used it for his own personal gain.
What’s transparent about that, Crackerjack???
Modern Hill$ong style music is evil, because it comes from the wrong source. It is not godly music at all, and often carries a confused, worldly message, promoting a fake ‘Jesus’ as a mascot for everything that is Hill$ong…
“14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth.
15 This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.” James 3:14,15,16
…and then there’s this for comparison:
“But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.”
“Modern Hill$ong style music is evil, because it comes from the wrong source.”
Didn’t Bullock write some of it? What about Zschech? Is hers is evil too?
You are contradicting yourself.
Also – is some of it too much like a cool clubbing music?
What’s wrong with techno, hip hop, clubbing and music like that? After all – didn’t God make that too?
Or is it just because it ain’t your style?
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Hi Sally – let me be clear. Hill$ong music comes from the wrong source. Geoff Bullock has moved on to other things long ago, and I would not classify his music as evil.
The current incarnation of Hillsong ‘music’ in its outworking, resembles a rock concert, complete with $70,000 mixers, large speakers, light shows etcetera. Doesn’t that remind you of a rock concert Sally? Or maybe I missed something last time I watched a Hill$ong production…
Darlene Zschech has openly declared her hand as being a solid Ecumenical, hand in glove with the Pope and other apostate leaders, when she went purposefully to Rome, earlier this year.
No matter how ‘good’ her ‘music’ is, she has betrayed the Christian Church per se, by closely associating with her arch enemy down through the ages – an enemy that killed tens of millions of true believers via Inquisitions and persecutions. Rome is a leopard that has not changed its spots – not at all.
“What’s wrong with techno, hip hop, clubbing and music like that? After all – didn’t God make that too? Or is it just because it ain’t your style?”
No, He didn’t – otherwise all of those angels in the book of Revelation would be dancing to the latest rap and/or Bee-bop music, which they aren’t… so it “ain’t” God’s style either…
The angels are blowing trumpets and singing, glorifying God with the saints of all ages, in a manner befitting the worship of almighty God – something that Hill$ong’s church bands have no understanding of, because they have been sorely mislead to believe that they can help “save the lost” by using worldly music and marketing methods, while Brian rakes in the tithe money from his motivational talks…
Hillsong can draw a crowd, but what happens to that crowd afterwards? Are they saved, and walking in the ways of God, or are they still in the world and just pretending to be “church goers”? Are you just a church goer Sally???
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.”
Also, your interpretation of this verse is wrong, because you’ve used it in isolation and not in the context in which it was written. Verse 16 is not a sweeping statement about ALL of the things that God created, but is a specific reference to the spiritual hierarchy which exists both in heaven and on earth.
We can’t normally see angels or demons, but they exist and within each group there is a hierarchical order – from archangels to lowers orders of angels, cherubims, seraphims etcetera, and some would argue, the same kind of hierarchy on the fallen angel/demonic side of things exists, but it is controlled by Satan.
Those who are on Earth and are visible, are usually heads of state – kings, and their kingdoms, such as Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, and in a more modern context, various geopolitical blocks (the EU for example) which may also be visible, but are controlled by Satanic entities (which are invisible)
This is so that God’s end time scenario to play out as it should. Disagree if you will, but I feel that this is a fair interpretation, and well within the context of Colossians 1, which makes out that Christ is the head of all the spiritual hierarchies, and nothing major will be allowed to happen in Heaven or on Earth without His will.
Sally, do you believe God made Metallica too?
Hey wait a sec.
I thought you guys said there was no transparency.
“I thought you guys said there was no transparency.”
Of course there’s transparency – we can see right through Brian Houston (as can God also, naturally enough).
“That’s an argument?”
Whoever is playing the role today doesn’t understand subtlety. An axe isn’t always needed you know, church watch. Not finished my cappuccino yet.
“Whoever is playing the role today doesn’t understand subtlety.”
And of course Brian Houston would understand subtlety, wouldn’t he newtaste? Maybe you can’t recognise irony.
“An axe isn’t always needed you know …”
That’s quite true; chainsaws are much quicker.
“Not finished my cappuccino yet.”
Do you know why Brian Houston doesn’t drink cappuccinos, newtaste? He’s already got way too much froth around his mouth as it is.
“Maybe you can’t recognise irony.”
Maybe you can’t. I was being ironic.
“Maybe you can’t [recognise irony]. I was being ironic.”
You’re getting more like Brian Houston every day, newtaste – you are constantly being misunderstood.
“Brian Houston doesn’t drink cappuccinos”
He’ll meet you for a cup of coffee though… if you have the guts to leave your camera crew at home.
Mission Statement: To reach and influence the world by building a large Christ-centered, Bible-based church, changing mindsets and empowering people to lead and impact in every sphere of life.
“… changing mindsets ….”
Did Jesus also use hypnosis and neuro-linguistic programming, Sally?
Paul wrote, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Romans 12:2 (NIV)
“… be transformed by the renewing of your mind.”
And Paul, in his prescience, no doubt foresaw the advent of that anointed man of God Brian Houston, the one and only teacher through whom such transformation could possibly be effected.
We all know that you are the quintessential try-hard, newtaste, but honestly, you’re going to have to try a lot harder.
“…Do not conform to the pattern of this world…”
* valuing status over morals (Titus 2:11-15)
* putting superstars before average person (James 2:1-10)
* putting money before God (Matthew 6:24)
Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Alright give it up for Newtaste, hes made another attempt to quote a verse, its celebration time! Whoopee!
Newtaste, so youve made another attempt to quote a verse. However this is where the rubber meets the road. The problem is pulling verses out of the air does not further your cause.
Everyone else brings verses to the table showing what a gigantic fake Brian Houston is, but you have never brought verses to the table to support your side (Brian Houston’s shenanigans) nor accurately denigrate Church Watcher.
In addition, as bryce eludes to, whats both ironic and sad is this…. that verse you picked (renewing of the mind) is one that does not even apply to prosperity cult cadaver Brian Houston. His mind is so far from renewed he would make a better alien in the movies than he does trying to impersonate a Christian pastor.
Correction: As BOTH BRYCE AND THINKER elude to….
Newtaste you have quoted a verse that reveals more problems with Brian Houston (making him look even worse), instead of helping him.
Sally would enjoy trying a new apostolic reformation church, where they teach the false doctrine of Reclaiming the 7 Mountains:
Hillsong does teach the seven mountains heresy.
If a church is truly Christ-centred and bible-focused then the two other stated goals will happen naturally (like a seed becomes a seedling becomes a tree).
1. Does Hillsong preach the *same* Christ that the bible preaches? Jesus, 2nd person of the Trinity, God made flesh, dwelt among us, died (as the perfect sacrifice) for our sins [e.g. Philippians 2:5-11], all we have to do is to believe in Jesus [no good works e.g. tithing required to prove our devotion]?
2. What type of mindset exactly: apostles’ “follow Christ no matter what the personal cost” OR “Christ has a destiny for YOU [and work towards fulfilling that destiny]”?
3. Empower to lead and impact in every sphere of life:
* according to God’s standards – person’s heart changed via faith in Christ and resulting repentance of sins OR
* man’s standards – changed from unhealthy negative attitudes to positive healthy ones/ powerful personal influence/ outward material success?
Who exactly is doing the empowering – God or Hillsong?
Ephesians 2:10 For we are *HIS* workmanship, created in *CHRIST JESUS* unto good works, which *GOD* hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
“and empowering people to lead and impact in every sphere of life.”
Where do the Scriptures say this is part of the Gospel?
Hey dudes – whats with your logo?
God Is God. He does Not need symbols, that’s why He said not to make them.
You even promote a ‘Pirate’ Radio Station.
“Piracy is typically an act of robbery or criminal violence at sea.”
“God Is God. He does Not need symbols, that’s why He said not to make them.”
Why then does Hillsong need a registered Trademark? To make money? Did the disciples need a logo?
‘God Is God. He does Not need symbols, that’s why He said not to make them.’
But God wants our money, doesn’t he Sally – lots and lots and lots of money. We know that must be true, because Brian Houston told us so.
Have you given lots of money to God, Sally?
RE reason for name: http://www.piratechristianradio.com/tablet/about.html
1 Timothy 6
3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
4 they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions
5 and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
“who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.”
That would be referring to people like Brian Houston – why else would he have written a book entitled “You Need More Money”?
Tell us, Sally: do *you* need more money, or do you think Brian Houston is a liar?
“who think that godliness is a means to financial gain”
Sally, please use your head and think for a moment. Who among us has made lots and lots of money off the name of Jesus? Let’s give you a hint. His initials are “B.H.”
Sadly the more you and Newtaste post verses, the worse it makes Brian Houston look.
Spiritual corpse Brian Houston has nothing but unconvincing followers who can’t handle the Scriptures at all.
The ‘gospel’ of Hillsong so-called ‘church’ is nothing more than this gullible manure….
“Ra ra sis-boom-bah.”
First Sally tried quoting hillsong’s “mission statement”, but there was no joy there. What a surprise.
Then she thought that taking CW to task for the logo might be the go, but she didn’t come close to drawing blood.
Finally, she took a most un-hillsong-like plunge and — drum-roll please — she actually *quoted verses from the Bible*. How unfortunate that Sally did a “Brian Houston”; that is, she made a complete meal of it, and ended up exposing herself as the utter fool that she so clearly is. Maybe someone should have warned poor old Sally that picking up a double-edged sort by the wrong end was only ever going to end very painfully.
What a joke hillsong cult members are: they come, they comment, they leave with their tail between their legs – just as Sally has done. Hey Sally, where have you gone? To get some advice from your master Brian as to how to proceed? Didn’t Brian already set you up as a Spirit-filled overcomer, Sally? Aren’t you all hip and cool and on the winning side? Can’t you tear down the strongholds of your enemies with the greatest of ease? No? Then exactly what has Brian Houston done for you? What impact has he had on your life, apart from taking your money and making you poorer?
Hey Morrie – Sally here.
1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
What do you think about that one huh?
‘Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.’
That’s talking about people like Brian Houston. It’s also talking about people who defend people like Brian, such as yourself.
So we can see that you have now managed to quote a verse that condemns both yourself and Brian Houston. Nice going; maybe you should become a ‘preacher’ at hillsong. Seriously though, as I’ve already noted, anyone who picks up a double-edged sword by the wrong end is going to hurt themselves. Now you’ve done it again, so it seems that you are just like Brian: thick as a brick, unteachable, and altogether proof against experience.
You have absolutely nothing to say here, but it seems that you are intent on embarrassing yourself by putting your rank ignorance on public display. You’ve really turned out just like Brian, haven’t you?
“Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.”
Well done, Sally. You have proven Brian Houston does not know God.
Brian Houston calls those who disagree with him…. “EVIL!”
Whats most sad Sally is youre an even worse apologist than Newtaste.
Now thats getting down there to the bottom of the barrel.
Big Tex said:
“What do you think about that one huh?”
You’ve proven you can read, and you cannot rightly divide.
Most of 1 Timothy is about how Timothy is to order the church in Ephesus until the apostle Paul arrived. It was about order in terms of the churches’ day to day running, its governance as well as standards for the ministry etcetera.
Unfortunately for you’ve quoted those three verses in chapter 6 way out of context. ‘Sally’. You’ve left out the whole of chapter 5 of 1 Timothy and the first 2 verses of chapter 6… for the sake of context, let’s look at that…
The context of Paul’s comments in the 3 verses you quoted, are that if anyone does NOT take on board his WHOLE counsel in chapters 1,2,3,4,5 and part of 6, THEN the next 3 verses apply, (3,4 and 5) and ONLY then.
You have taken this whole passage out of context, and done a convenient ‘cut and paste’ on it by leaving out the whole of chapter 5 and only using those parts of chapter 6 that suited you.
You just can’t pick up scripture (like mud) and throw it at people Sally… It’s important to get the context right, otherwise you could cobble a few scriptures together and make them say anything… anything at all…
I found this today
Hillsong Church via The Morning Show10 hrs · .ICYMI Watch Pastor Brian Houston today on the The Morning Show in Australia. #LiveLoveLead
WATCH: “Hillsong has made Christianity cool”Brian Houston is responsible for one of our fastest-growing religious movements. He’s the founding pastor of Hillsong Church which has 35,000 members in Australia alone.au.tv.yahoo.com
here is the link
”Hillsong made Christianity cool”
Hillsong’s demographics are teenagers and young adults – the age group where being cool/ groovy/ hip is all important and Self-identity is being formed – need for peer group acceptance and support especially important.
If a church focuses too much on sin (I.e. condemns it, not enough preaching on God’s forgiveness) / has some legalism (e.g. no pop music of any variety, no alcohol EVER, out-of-date fashion standards) that’s being like a teenager’s “mean strict” parents, therefore uncool. A church that focuses on doctrine and what the bible says – to an *unsaved* teenager especially- is uncool. A church that insists on older generations’ songs -even if performed with professional-sounding singers, electric guitars and drums – is uncool.
Hillsong church has drawn in “spiritual but not religious” young adult population that have left other churches (religious upbringing)/ never would have gone to church otherwise (non-religious upbringing). How many are false converts due to Hillsong’s (at best) very diluted Gospel is a major concern.
Good ebook: go http://www.thedivineconspiracy.org/index.html, search “almost Christian” and you’ll get a 2010 research textbook of that name (PDF file).
“Hillsong church has drawn in “spiritual but not religious” young adult population that have left other churches (religious upbringing)/ never would have gone to church otherwise (non-religious upbringing).”
Hillsong have deliberately targeted churches and their youth through their music and encourage the youth to leave their churches when Hillsong finally plant a church near them.
This form of usurping is a type of marketing strategy you see corporate giants like Coca Cola and McDonalds use to gain a loyal youth following.
It’s diabolical that Hillsong will engage in such tactics under the guise of ‘worship’.
It’s easy to get young people in – all you have to do is make “church” look like a rock concert (with a 20 minute sermon in the middle, which fails to adequately challenge any worldly lifestyles,) and the kids will come from miles around. They do at Brisbane’s Glory Gathering NAR ‘church’…
With all the reported ‘dating and mating’ that goes on in some of these places, the opportunity for young people to get involved in things they shouldn’t, is all that more easy, because it’s done under the “covering” of the ‘church’ (which looks like a rock concert!)
Paul told Timothy to “flee youthful lusts”, but not at your average weekly or monthly church youth meeting???
“Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.” 2 Timothy 2:22
Well, I don’t suppose that anyone from Timothy’s church would be attending the monthly “Youth Alive” type get-togethers, now would they?
“no alcohol EVER”
So is this a ‘dry’ website?
“So is this a ‘dry’ website?”
Not if you take the Lord’s supper.
No, Sally, this is not a ‘dry’ website.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“no pop music of any variety, no alcohol EVER”
A church like that has made up its own law, because that’s not in the Bible. Jesus drank wine. And music is just a certain number of notes rearranged in different orders. “Pop music” changes over time. The pop music of the 1920s that outraged the adults of the time is different to pop music now.
@Sally – it is true to say that alcohol consumed in moderation may do the majority of church people no real harm.
It is not forbidden in scripture either, but drunkenness is, and when you’ve got a lot of (18+) people at a social gathering, sooner or later, there’ll be one or more in the crowd that just can’t handle their booze. How do I know this? I was a teenager once too. 🙂
So it is a matter of being ‘wise’ about such things, and most importantly, that you not stumble a weaker brother or sister, who may have serious problems with alcohol, by drinking in front of them. It may be OK for some, but not for others.
“not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.”
“Likewise must the deacons be grave, not double tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;” 1 Timothy 3:8
@Newtaste – yes Jesus did drink wine, and specifically at the wedding feast at Caana, his very first miracle in public, was to change six “kegs” of water, into wine.
That ‘wine’ was “oinous” – in the Greek language, ‘oinous’ was not soda pop or lemonade – it was the real deal with alcoholic content.
Jesus didn’t want the bridal party to be embarrassed by running out, so at the request of His mother, he performed a miracle and turned water into wine. It was the best wine, kept til last. John 2:1-11
I’m not saying that it’s alright for believers to be drinking all the time, but that if you choose to do so, that you do it “wisely”, with others who are weak in that area in mind.
Sally I was giving stereotyped examples often shown on TV shows/ movies (especially from USA), where the “Christian” uses outward behaviour/ appearance as the measuring stick (and jumps to conclusions too soon as result).
RE alcohol: My own personal opinion is that it’s between a person and God – responsible drinkers it’s not sin, irresponsible drinkers it’s sin. (see Romans chapter 14).
Ephesians 5:18 And be not DRUNK with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Conclusion: If alcohol is still one person’s weak spot leading to sin (even after they’ve become a Christian) they should abstain, just as every other person who has identified their own weak spot should abstain from their own trigger/ catalyst for sin.
Sorry, first *chapter* of research textbook. It’s a good introduction to the issue any way.
“Sorry, first *chapter* of research textbook. It’s a good introduction to the issue any way.”
Hey hang on a sec – you can’t pick to pieces everyone else’s downfalls and then just excuse your own information that appears to contradict things can you?
‘you can’t […] just excuse your own information that appears to contradict things can you?’
I see that you are talking about Brian Houston again (although Brian doesn’t really have “information”; he has baseless assertions and endless fairy tales from his own twisted imagination, along with some outright lies just for good measure).
Clearly you share newtaste’s mania for Brian and all things hillsong. Are you going to emulate newtaste and persist in studiously avoiding acknowledgment of any and every truth whilst continuing to mindlessly parrot Brian Houston’s nonsensical heresies, or were you planning to say something thoughtful and incisive at some stage?
Since when is a clarification is a contradiction? Additional information was given to inform potential reader (hoping for whole book) or potential non-reader (who would not read whole book, but be willing to read one chapter).
What I did was honesty in practice – something that appears to be a foreign concept to a Hillsong supporter….
“Hey hang on a sec – you can’t pick to pieces everyone else’s downfalls and then just excuse your own information that appears to contradict things can you?”
Sally, you need to quit while you’re behind. Since you couldn’t do Bible apologetics, now you’re down to Comment apologetics. And you’re even failing at analyzing comments.
You’re another Hilariousong ‘student’ on their casualty list — another EPIC FAIL, just like Newtaste.
Perhaps Sally needs to visit Newtaste inside the goat’s pen…?
Apollo, thanks for removing the image from that virus infested site you were linking to.
Actually Newtaste, it’s the same imaging site you used to post that “two dumbo’s” image a week or so back… (was that Brian and you in a ‘selfie’ Newtaste?)
Pot calling the kettle black again???
It’s called ‘imgur’… the other one was ‘photobucket’ – try calling that website’s CEO and tell him that his global internet investment is ‘virus infested’…
But this thread is all about Brian Houston and how he treats his “friends” – past and present, not about the internet, so let’s keep it on track shall we, Newtaste???
So, how do we deal with the “false doctrine” virus, or the “money racking” virus, or the “Kingdom Women Love Sex” virus or the “Let’s put gays in the ministry” virus Newtaste? We kill of those ‘viral infections’ that Hill$ong and many other ‘churches’ have contracted, with the word of God, that’s how.
How do we pull the blinders from your eyes, so that you can see that the ‘core values’ of Hill$ong and the Houstons appear to be springing from an antichrist well??? How can we help you to see that you have been lied to, deceived, disenfranchised, and that the Houston clan are only in control of the Hill$ong “churches” for what they can get out of it…?
Why can’t you see it Newtaste? Because you’re up to your neck in it… You love it, and just about every post you’ve ever made here proves it – so don’t bother asking me for any proof!
“The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
2 Corinthians 4:4
Remember Newtaste, that scripture is being quoted in the context that most ‘Christians’ inside the Hill$ong cult are NOT saved, because they have believed in a false Jesus, a false spirit and a false gospel, which cannot save the hearers…
“There are none so blind as those who will not see…”
* clarification a contradiction (need new glasses)