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Is Hillsong “championing” the cause of your local church? An insider from Calvary Kendall Miami shines a light behind the scenes as to how Hillsong assimilates churches into their movement:
It’s done by deceit.
This type of unethical take-over of churches is a reoccurring phenomena within the Hillsong movement. Significant churches that have been taken over by Hillsong are:
Garden City Church
Grace City Church
Oslo Christian Center
Pay attention to the warning signs.
CALVARY CHAPEL “TAKE-OVER” IN MIAMI
Imagine: It’s 2010 and you are happy at your Calvary Chapel church. All seems to be going well. Then the senior pastor decides he wants to change direction and become a Hillsong copy and join the Hillsong family. But you don’t know this. All you know is your pastor kicked you out because you believe in Jesus and His Word. Then you find out what was happening because Christians online were forced to take their experiences online and warn everybody about your pastor’s agenda.
This is what people experienced under the leadership of Hillsong “Family” leader Pedro Garcia at Calvary Kendall, Miami.
“Pastor” Pedro of Calvary Kendall was influenced to do church differently after attending a Hillsong Concert in 2010. Later, Pedro personally met with Hillsong’s senior leader Brian Houston over dinner. Houston invited Pedro to have his church join the Hillsong Family. This invitation was kept secret and “Pastor” Pedro Garcia proceeded to start the process of assimilation into Hillsong without telling his congregation of his agenda.
THE MIAMI GROOMING DEVASTATED THE CHURCH
The transition to turn a Calvary Chapel Church into the Hillsong Family cult was planned well before church members were told. This secrecy and form of grooming only confirms that Hillsong leaders encourage the Apostolic Totalitarian model within churches who join the Hillsong Family. The result of this New Apostolic Reformation model in church does not allow Christianity to flourish but rather destroys any form of Christian discipleship to flourish.
In private, petitioning or biblical approaches by concerned leaders, elders or church members did not stop Pedro Garcia from furthering his agenda to join the Hillsong Family. Questioning was not tolerated (as is the nature within the Hillsong model of governance).
Nearly all the long-term faithful staff and pastors left. Many of the elders and older church members also stopped attending. Unfortunately, this meant less income was coming into CK, which bought on the high-pressure giving talks.
The personal recollection of an insider below shows some of the concerns, observations and grooming of the church membership in preparation for its adoption into the “Hillsong family”.
And it started with the music.
Insiders Story
A Summary from an interview: 20/07/2014.
Here is an overview as seen by an (ex-active) member of Calvary Chapel Kendall, as they watched their beloved church morph into a Hillsong model, and be absorbed into the Hillsong family. Their input will be noted in blue.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
“IT STARTED WITH THE MUSIC”
Calvary Chapel Kendall was a church plant under the Calvary Chapel Movement in the year 2000 by Senior Pastor Pedro Garcia. It could have been described as relatively conservative, evangelistic church with in-depth teaching. That was until about three years ago (about 2011).
The congregation then had more older people than younger which meant offerings were stable and the leadership/eldership were respected as godly men.
Becoming part of the “Hillsong Family” was a process initiated and enforced by Ps Pedro. Five years [around 2009] ago the church started changing, elders and people started leaving, and over the last 3 [around 2011] years the church became more “Pentecostal” in flavour.
The music increasingly was from Hillsong.
Then it was only Hillsong music.
Pastor Pedro would go to Hillsong Conferences, meet with Brian Houston personally and started advertising Hillsong album releases and events from the Calvary Chapel Kendall stage and in their foyer. Alex expressed to us his concerns how Pedro was using Hillsong’s music to groom his church to embrace the Hillsong movement.
Alex noted it wasn’t the Holy Spirit that was active in worship but the flesh.
NOT YOUR GRANDDAD’S CHURCH
If the elderly start leaving your church, warning bells should go off. Why?
Godly elders are people we should aspire to be like. They are like goal posts. They should be people we strive to be like. The elderly often have a stronger knowledge of the bible and are not so easily manipulated.
Hillsong however, remove the goal posts and become preoccupied with the new and the young.
From what we’ve seen in Hillsong, the elderly are made to feel irrelevant in Hillsong’s “relevant” culture, are overwhelmed by the loud music and remain voiceless under Hillsong’s Apostolic, vision-driven regime. They get the message that they are not a part of ‘it’ and leave.
Interestingly enough, Alex observed old people from his church leaving.
HILLSONG’S APOSTOLIC GOVERNANCE ENFORCED
Hillsong has its roots in the New Order of the Latter Rain movement which morphed into what is now known as the New Apostolic Reformation. Frank Houston of Hillsong/CLC branded himself as an apostle and laid out this “new wineskin” of Apostolic Governance in his church back in New Zealand before bringing this model to Australia. Hazel Houston [Frank’s wife], wrote how one church attendee observed how this form of governance made Frank Houston a “dictator.”
The origins of Hillsong (Part 4): Like dictator, like son
Under Brian Houston’s invitation and personal mentoring, Pedro Garcia “reformed” this Calvary Chapel church (old wine skin) to Hillsong’s New Apostolic model (new wine skin).
The insider stated,
“I believe he [Pedro] was part of the Calvary Chapel Board of Directors. But I don’t think he is a part of that anymore. I think he created his own board of directors now with people under him. You know? So he doesn’t really have anyone accountable to.”
Notice the similarities between the Hillsong Apostolic model and what is being introduced to Calvary Kendall. The bible has no authority, the vision is the final authority. God has been replaced by someone’s “vain imaginings”, whereby that person is attributing to God things that are not of God. If you don’t comply with the vision, you’re unqualified to pastor. If you are not on board with the vision, you’re treated like a tax collector.
To question the vision is the new unforgivable sin.
WHAT JOINING THE HILLSONG FAMILY REALLY LOOKS LIKE
The insider stated that Pedro did not fit the biblical qualifications of a pastor as clearly outlined in scripture.
“There have been countless testimonies of [Pedro] being nasty with others and you know, kicking pastors out for not being on board with his vision… Counting on the top of my head I would say seven or eight [pastors]… I knew them and they were the most Godly people I’ve met in my life… There were definitely people who were trying to keep him accountable. And he didn’t want to hear it and he didn’t want to put up with it. He’s told people, ‘I don’t have time. We don’t need baby Christians in our church – so you can leave.’”
Leaders attempted to lovingly correct Pedro Garcia. People who actually knew the bible approached Pastor Pedro Garcia saying, ‘Can you please look at this’ – he was calling them baby Christians. Pedro’s definition of a ‘baby Christian’ was “someone who is not strong in the word, strong in his relationship with God. In other words, Pedro was calling those around him baby Christians even though they actually knew the bible. The elderly youth leader left after biblically approaching Pedro to share his concerns.
Replacing Old Wine Skin Pastors with New Wine Skin Pastors
The elders committed no sin or failing in the eyes of the congregation. The way they were treated were completely unjustifiable. Pedro just didn’t seem to care about people and he carefully managed the perception and information given to the congregation. There was no transparency.
“Every situation was different. Some people wanted to leave a little bit better. Some people left because of very aggravated situations… The congregation was totally oblivious to anything.”
Pedro doesn’t care about people. It’s all about him. He has placed pastors around him that are more like puppets.
The new pastors included some who seemed more like puppets, on board with whatever Pedro wanted. In the new pastoral team Alex saw:
1. a lack of discernment,
2. a willingness to submit to Pedro,
3. they were not particularly intellectual,
4. all preached the same type of stuff and
5. a couple were quite self-absorbed.
6. Accountability was a concern.
IT’S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY
The preaching at Calvary Kendall was reduced to having pastors talk more about their lives than the gospel. Hillsong influenced Pedro Garcia to embrace the Prosperity Gospel (a non-Christian teaching that takes scriptures out of context and manipulates people into giving money to their church).
Alex didn’t recognise that Pedro Garcia was preaching Hillsong’s prosperity gospel and theology until after he left. But Alex did notice that the messages were being stripped of the biblical message and replaced with personal stories.
“When I started researching stuff online, I didn’t know much about [the prosperity gospel]. I was kind of ignorant toward it, unfortunately because no one- I was never taught it.”
Everything that Alex researched over the last three years (2010-2013), had concluded that his church was preaching the Prosperity Gospel of Hillsong.
“It’s definitely all encouragement, all prosperity and having your best life now. And that’s what I’ve come to acknowledge after leaving and taking a step back. It’s allowed me to see clearly what’s happening. Because while I was in the church, I honestly didn’t notice the teaching as much until I left and started really analyzing the theology behind the church.”
When asked about how the new leadership talked about money Alex claimed that they taught, “Basic lies, stripped from context” in the bible. Making fraudulent claims about giving up money from the bible is a signature feature of prosperity cults like Hillsong. Now it was being practiced at Calvary Kendall.
Here is one example how Hillsong groomed Calvary Kendall to embrace the practice of the Prosperity Gospel:
“The whole thing of this tithing started was a pastor… came as a guest speaker. And they had this thing called the ‘Hundred Day Challenge’… They would pass the buckets, (we never pass the buckets at Calvary, ever), and so for these hundred days they started passing the buckets and they would report how much was raised. They never reported anything and they just continued to do this after the hundred days. No mention of any hundred day thing whatsoever. They just continued to do the bucket thing for the upcoming years.”
HILLSONG LOYALTIES AND CALVARY CHAPEL DISLOYALTY
During the transition Pedro attended a Calvary Chapel pastors’ conference and was on stage with other pastors, even though Pedro had been speaking badly of Calvary Chapel: their theology, movement style; they were old and boring; basically sewing the seed of discontent within his church, making it easier to implement his change.
Alex thinks Pedro would love to have his church become a fully fledged Hillsong Church.
“[Pedro] just changed his big billboard sign at the front of the church. It used to say ‘Calvary Chapel Kendall’. Now it says ‘Calvary’ and the bottom right it says ‘Hillsong Family’. So the fact that he put his big brand ‘Calvary’ on there already, I don’t really think he’s going to make a move to say Hillsong Miami. But you never know. There is no doubt in my mind he would absolutely love that.”
Pedro also regularly met with Brian Houston,
“Meetings? Pedro saw Brian Houston very regularly when he went to Australia. He’s posted pictures with him and all that stuff.”
Alex also observed how Pedro showed disloyalty to his Sr Pastor Chuck Smith by parading his Brian Houston as his Sr Pastor.
“Pastor Pedro put on a caption right on a picture of Brian Houston saying that, ‘This is my Senior pastor, Brian Houston’ when he was still under the name Calvary Chapel, Kendall. At the point, his senior pastor was Chuck Smith. But he said Brian Houston. And I think he deleted that picture. I have to check. But yeah – he said that before being apart of the official Hillsong Family.”
Pedro’s allegiance with Hillsong was kept quiet. Pedro told his congregants that they would be joining the Hillsong Family even though this was already well under way months earlier. In other words, he wasn’t saying anything until he thought it was safe to do so.
“[Pedro] … announced it months after. And the plan to become part of the Hillsong Family was a year long plan. He openly admitted that on the pulpit, that he had a dinner with Brian Houston and Brian Houston proposed this idea to enter the Hillsong Family. Now that video is not online anymore unfortunately. But that’s what was said on the pulpit. It was pretty much a year long process that they were introducing themselves into this Hillsong movement.”
NEW EVENTS & TRENDS EMERGING
Pedro was diligent in copying the Hillsong way of doing church:
“You know the Creative Team nights that Hillsong has? [Pedro] has those and he’s had businessmen from like a sushi restaurant come or like advertising guys come and share their marketing techniques and all that stuff. So it seems he’s mainly focused on those things rather than the things of the bible.”
Pedro started marketing his church the way Hillsong markets their church. “Social media graphics resembled their graphics identically.”
GETTING THEM WHILE THEY’RE YOUNG
“Pastor Pedro has had meetings with young youth. I am talking young thirteen year-olds, and have them go on stage and talk about tithing at some points. Thirteen year-olds go on the stage and talk to the congregation on Sunday morning about tithing. He’s actually done that. He’s actually had a seminar for them to teach them how to be speakers on a platform… It wasn’t really advertised. It was just, I think, some chosen youth for little kids to come to a meeting and have Pedro host it for them.”
Pastor Pedro was also using Hillsong’s model in raising up young pastors. Alex offered one such example.
“Even some of the newcoming pastors in the church, always told stories about their lives… Even this one guy … he’s a pastor from Calvary. He’s a vey regular pastor now. He’s a very young guy. And he hasn’t gone to bible school or anything like that. He was going to the church for a couple of years and now he’s automatically a pastor. The reason being was that he was one of the most charismatic guys you’ll ever meet in your life. And so because of that, Pastor Pedro made him a Pastor. And it was ridiculous because he had no experience whatsoever.
He had no education whatsoever on the bible. And the only thing going for him was the gift of encouragement and charismaticism. That made him a new pastor. A very, very young guy.”
RECAP – AND SOME OTHER VISUAL CHANGES
Changes that were noticeable to church members included:
- Only Hillsong music played, advertising of Hillsong events and albums from stage and in foyer
- The name of the church and its campuses (all controlled by Pedro) were changed. (Now Calvary Kendall.)
- Preaching changed to messages like: “Stepping into Your Purpose”, “Staying the Fight”, “Always on the Run”, “Get Out of The Valley”,..
- Women started to speak on stage. Christine Caine was invited to speak at the church in 2012, Pedro’s wife spoke on Mother’s Day. Women more frequently gave tithing talks.
- The transition went slowly so people were accustomed or prepared – so when announced that Calvary Kendall was joining the Hillsong Family, there was no disruption.
- Teachers came from Hillsong.
- Trips to Hillsong Australia were announced and the congregation was always kept up-to-date of Pedro interacting with Hillsong.
- Tithing started with a guest speaker who introduced a 100 day challenge, passing the buckets around. They never did that at Calvary Chapel before. They would report how much and after the 100 days the buckets continued.
- They needed more money now as older people had been leaving. So Calvary Kendall embraced Hillsong’s Prosperity Gospel to manipulate people to give money.
- Then the building plan starts to surface.
Alex saw Pedro as dishonest in getting the type of church he wanted – not being straight with the church about his intentions, but rather gradually making changes and weeding out those who would not be behind him.
Pedro was big on literature. He read Houston’s books and got the staff to read about Steve Jobs. He had advertised guys and business men in to share their marketing secrets. He was big on business, had creative nights like Hillsong, used social media and graphics like Hillsong, focussing on those things rather than the bible.
And why would the church have large binders of Elevation Church financial documents there (eg. Financial records, tax returns).
Andrew Denton (? name, elder) was brought in to build financial givings, there were Kingdom Builders and Heart for the House programs. Edro [?] even met with 13 year old and had them go on stage and talk about tithing. They had a seminar for them to learn how to be speakers (for the chosen kids).
Pedro had plans for another building and brought in pastors from Hillsong regularly to speak.
Three people have been recruited from Hillsong College and who quickly were given jobs in high positions, including becoming worship leaders.
[The information above was extracted from a private conversation we had with an ex-member and insider of Calvary Kendall in July 2014]
If you are questioning this insider’s testimony, others have expressed concern with the changes of Calvary Kendall, Miami. Below is someone who documented the change of Calvary Chapel Kendall to a Hillsong-driven church.
In January 2015, Pedro Garcia announces operating as part of the Hillsong Family. He notes that in 2010 he went to a Hillsong Live Concert in Dallas, Texas, and it impacted him so much that everything changed in his world… [hence his trajectory with Hillsong].
Warning Checklist
- What to watch out for if you don’t want to see your church assimilated as Hillsong continues to “champion the local church”.
Has your pastor:
- Been visiting Hillsong events lately, been talking to Brian Houston?
- Promoting Hillsong music/events, playing Hillsong tunes?
- Changing the style of the service to more like a show – music is used to build and heighten the experience?
- Using charismatic MCs and speakers and story tellers?
- Dumbing down the biblical content, at best providing Christianity Lite?
- Mocking the old way, i.e. boring denominations
- Pushing the church giving?
- Being OK with long time staff/ elders and older members of the congregation leaving?
- Dropped Jesus as the focus and instead uses His name to give the illusion his ideas, vision or direction has God’s authority?
- Is your church now targeting a younger audience?
You might want to check.
RELATED ARTICLES
Ps Pedro Garcia Removed from Calvary Kendall Miami & Hillsong Family?
ONE Conference Brings Together Calvary Chapel & Hillsong Church
Hillsong Church Watch 
I mentioned on another post about Pedro Garcia, how he spoke at a “pastor’s only” meeting at Calvary Chapel Merritt Island. The pastor of that church, Malcolm Wild, had Pedro Garcia as the only speaker. And Garcia spoke a long time, talking about how everyone has to change how they “do church”. And Malcolm Wild held up Pedro Garcia as the example that everyone should follow. Pedro Garcia had basically taught to abandon the Word of God as the foundation, and to go in these other directions. I was shocked and couldn’t listen to it anymore, and I left early.
Around that time, Pedro Garcia was also on the stage at the pastor’s conference at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, and Brian Brodersen, Greg Laurie, and Bob Coy (Coy being now out of ministry), all applauded the changes taking place in Miami, and they all said how we should be following Pedro Garcia’s example, which is really just abandoning the Bible, the Word of God.
So this sheds a very negative light on Calvary Chapels that go along with Brodersen, Laurie, and Wild. Those men also seem to want to embrace the Hillsong demonic heresies and abandon the Word of God.
Pedro Garcia is now out of ministry of course. But if you look at his Instagram account, Garcia is visiting other churches in the Miami area, spreading his views all around, and tons of people online are 100% behind his view of things, even as he’s not a pastor anymore.
I respect everyone opinion. I can see your point of view dont mean i agree with it. See i was lost a couple years ago and didnt even know it. Been to countless services and never related until i went to a sunday calvary service at the west campus in the school. The music is what made me pay attention first. What the heck is this. Then i listened to the words and it made my heart soft to receive the word. When i heard Pastor Pedro message it was like everyone in the room diapered and he was speaking into my life. I know it was not him as he was the vessel God chose to deliver that message to me that day. My life was forever changed. I started attending service, attending meetings and became christian. I was baptized, began to serve and yes read the bible. I was saved from an immoral sinful life thanks to Pastor Pedros unorthodox way of preaching i was introduced to Gods grace and Love. Just because you were not saved that way dont mean it does not work. Pastor Pedro taught me how to read a bible. So for me to read this is crazy. Yes come as you are, yes its flashy but hey he caught my attention and God began to work in my life. I am a living walking testimony that pastor Pedro message works and he taught me how to have a relationship with Jesus. You should stop worrying so much of others and worry about your personal relationship with God and what works for you. That might not work for the next. God works in mysterious ways to save everyone dont try and understand it. Praying for all this to end. SPread Love not negativity
“My life was forever changed.”
But are you saved from the wrath of God?
Ramon – are you a follower of Jesus or Pedro? Because if you read your bible and loved Jesus – you would not be defending Pedro.
Of course I was saved. I accepted Jesús in my life and was forgiven by his grace. He continues to work on me and restore me as I walk in his will.
I follow Jesús not Pedro. I don’t idolize man because Pastor Pedro is still human and i will be disappointed. That’s why i still serve with calvary because i believe God is still there. I still see him moving and saving lives. I don’t need to defend Pedro. I’m just thankful because his unorthodox ways of teaching, brought me to Jesús again, brought me too learn the Bible and apply it in my life.
So what is the gospel?
I believe God Breaks down the gospel in many different ways so we all understand it in our own unique way, but all the same message. God sent us his son to die for our sins for us to be forgiven as we are all sinners. You, me, pastor Pedro nobody is better than another. But he did it because how much he loved us and give us free will to choose.
God speaks in our lives and its our personal decision if we want to listen and follow. Now when God speaks don’t mean you flip a switch and your a great christian. No your still flawed. But you following him and he’s working on getting closer to him and you begin to see how he sees you. None of us have arrived yet. That’s why it’s a journey. He didn’t say it be easy but he did say he walk with us. And it also says he finishes everything he starts. Thank you to calvary and Pastor Pedro i found out i was lost and began my walk. Although not where i want to be, I’m well on my way. I have come along way, and just greatfull im far from where God found me. Do as the gospel says. Don’t judge, others or God’s work. Just do your part spress love, the message and help others. It’s not for you to understand
Don’t fall for the world’s attempted “don’t judge EVER” escape clause via misuse of an isolated verse. Christians are supposed to follow the example of the Bereans. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+17%3A10-11&version=KJV
They were PRAISED for comparing what apostle Paul said with scripture. They were not condemned, or told they were sinning, or told “stop worrying so much whether you’ve got the whole story straight….just spread love and she’ll be roight maaate.”
How on earth did 21st century Christians get convinced that they were never to judge, even with righteous judgement (John 7:24)? A true shepherd (pastor) would never mind if his sheep took their time to see if it was really him (Christians using discernment) but a wolf/ thief (spiritual charlatan) certainly would…..
“But you following him and he’s working on getting closer to him and you begin to see how he sees you.”
However Pedro is not following Jesus, Pedro is following Houston/Hillsong.
“Don’t judge, others or God’s work”
However Jesus clearly said on multiple occasions to avoid False Teachers and False Prophets. How can you know who is False if you completely avoid checking them out? You cannot. And how can you know who you’re donating money to is doing God’s work if you completely adverse to checking them out agains the Scriptures? You cannot. Your “don’t judge” statement just is *NOT* biblical. It’s a man-made argument.
“Just do your part spress love, the message”
However Brian/Pedro’s message is *NOT* biblical. So *WHICH* message are you spreading? Ramon, you haven’t thought this through at all. You conduct your life in a *FEELINGS*-oriented way. It feels ‘right’ to follow Pedro so that’s what you do, *INSTEAD* of going by the Scriptures. Do you realize that is elevating something else (your feelings) above the Word of God? 2 corinthians 10:5 tells you not to do that: “We tear down arguments, and every presumption set up against the knowledge of God; and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.” Why do you think it tells you this? Because it’s for your own good.
Ramon – How do you preach your gospel when you say, “Do as the gospel says. Don’t judge, others or God’s work”?
Ramon Feliciano, the Gospel is not a “journey”. The Gospel is a guarantee of eternal life in heaven based on believing in the finished work of Jesus in paying for our sins.
Furthermore, the issue here is that Pedro Garcia believes and teaches the horrible heresies of Hillsong. The Lord can use any person that happens to mention Jesus Christ and Him crucified, to wake a person up spiritually. That’s not the issue. The Bible says to mark and avoid false teachers. And Pedro Garcia is most certainly a false teacher, based on his endorsement of the lies of Hillsong.
Correct. My Life is a journey in what we call sanctification. believing in Gods promises via the Gospel.
Regarding Pedro what it seems you guys have a problem with is his affiliation with Hillsong. Im not sure what “heresies” he has taught. Pedro has only taught scripture from the bible not Hillsong. Yes he uses the name, and uses Hillsong songs. That he does. But he teaches scripture from the bible. He teaches what we seem to agree on.
Regardless of this. Why dont we leave this up to God. Instead of wasting energies on this why not focus on reaching the lost people out there that have not met Jesus. I tell you if i was a non believer and say all these comments id be like look at these religious freaks. Thats exactly what God does not want. He simple wants to love us and for us love him to have a relationship with him. Lets keep it simple.
Wake up The enemy is trying to divide and destroy
Ramon Feliciano – Why was Pedro Garcia removed from ministry?
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“He simple wants to love us and for us love him to have a relationship with him. Lets keep it simple.”
No you are wrong Ramon. Your theology is whacked.
*** God wants pure and correct doctrine.
1 timothy 4:16 “Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.”
titus 2:1 “But as for you, teach what accords with sound doctrine.”
*** God also wants lies exposed.
ephesians 5:11 “Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.”
But you Ramon cannot accept this, because you want a simpleton, watered-down version of Christianity that you can wrap your head around, rather than studying the Bible and doing what it says.
“Wake up The enemy is trying to divide and destroy”
And the enemy is using Brian C Houston to do it. So you should avoid Brian C Houston.
ROMANS 16:17 “Now I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and obstacles that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Turn away from them.”
Brian C Houston is causing division with his false doctrines, false teachings, false Jesus, false gospel, false church, false teacher friends, bobbie’s false prophecies, false history ‘facts’, false everything else. Brian C Houston is the one causing divisions. That is exactly why you should avoid him.
Ramon Feliciano, salvation is not a journey and the Gospel is not a journey. You can say that sanctification is a journey, but that has nothing to do with salvation. You are mixing things up as someone would that has never been taught the Gospel. The Gospel is the guarantee of heaven based only on believing that Jesus is God and died for all our sins and rose again.
And as for the conversation about Pedro Garcia and “leaving it up to God”, you should take your own advice. You are the one that is bothered by people here having conversations about him and about Hillsong. Why not leave us “up to God” to handle?
Then you say, “that’s exactly what God does not want”. You’re wrong about that. The New Testament is filled with requirements to expose false teachers. And Hillsong and Garcia are false teachers. We are obeying Scripture. You are not. You are more worried about Hillsong and Garcia being worshiped, than worshiping Jesus Christ.
Ok and this is where we disagree. Our God is one of relationship not religion. None of us will meet the standard of biblical standard doctrine. We try as much as we may but all fall short and he knows that but accepts us flawed because our weakness is made perfect is him. Now that does not mean it gives us the right to live a sinful immoral life and not follow the bible. Thats where Gods wrath comes into play.
Funny you dont know me but here you go with the judging again. Im a watered down christian, i dont study the bible nor follow the doctrine. Before you so quick to judge Hillsong, Pedro, and myself you should be more inclined to judge yourself. Since you follow the doctrine and are a bible master and live a perfect sinless life. Maybe you arrived before all of us and I just dont understand.
For the record I once again to make it clear. I dont follow Hillsong, Brian, nor Pedro. I follow Jesus my lord and savior. No church , nor pastor is perfect so if something is out of context i dont apply it. No one is perfect. It amazes me to see these church critics going around criticizing and know it all. You are not meant to understand everything. Take what is for you and leave the rest because it might be for the person sitting next to you. God says walk in faith not by sight because our simple minds cant understand what hes doing. So stop acting like you Know it all. Or go open your own church and do it your way.
As for the last comment. Im not mixing up salvation nor sanctification. I clearly stated what the gospel is and i clarified why i said Christianity is a journey of sanctification. I love how you guys pull everything i say out of context. It seems its more import for you to argue and prove a point then spread the message of the gospel and love each other.
Im not defending Pedro nor Hillsong simply stating that yes they have an orthodox way of teaching but its what attracted me to the lord and learned i was living wrong. They inspired me to begin my walk with the lord and for once begin reading the bible and applying it to my life. Amazing the changes and blessings in my life. I have no control of ridiculous comments posted online nor can i change anyone’s mind. simply stating a fact that the false teachers you claim are what brought me to the lord. It might not be your walk and your relationship with Jesus but its mine. I would have never been attracted to the lord the way you guys portray him so im thankful to Pedro because of him i got to meet my lord and savior. I clearly stated never to follow Pedro nor Hillsong nor any man because you will be highly disappointed.
Its ironic even when Jesus came to this world he was not accepted and said he was a false teacher. Watch yourselves when you know it all.
James 1:26
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person’s religion is worthless.
This conversation is way out of context already. Ill pray for you guys and wish you nothing but the best.
Hebrews 6:1
Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
God Bless you all
P.S the person that wanted to know why Pastor Pedro was removed from Ministry go to calvaryconnect.com and they have a statement posted.
::drops the mic::
Thank for commenting Ramon – yes we are aware of the calavaryconnect.com statement. Just wondering if you were. It won’t do you any harm to be like the Bereans
– Acts 17:11 “Now the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true.
In doing so, look at the context and focus of Hillsong’s teaching and their impact on the body of Christ as they take over existing churches. We and others have been exhaustively researching and biblically critiquing Hillsong for at least 7 years.
http://www.piratechristian.com/search?q=hillsong&f_collectionId=55de6923e4b0316f2d24335c
There’s four particular stories we suggest you read and or listen to.
https://churchwatchcentral.com/2015/05/18/hillsong-insider-part-1-my-exit-out-of-a-mega-church-never-to-return-again/
https://churchwatchcentral.com/2015/05/21/hillsong-insider-part-2-the-hillsong-takeover-of-a-norwegian-charismatic-mega-church/
https://churchwatchcentral.com/2015/05/26/hillsong-insider-part-3-secrecy-is-a-hillsong-trademark/
https://churchwatchcentral.com/2015/08/13/rosebroughs-interviews-with-ex-hillsong-insiders-elisabeth-tanya-levin/
Cheers, Team Churchwatch.
Ramon, you can’t wing here. They want stop attacking you until you become at least a 3.5 point Calvinist.
To set you right they will recommend you listen to Joh Macarthur Tapes and Pirate Radio.
95% of Christians understand what you are saying. But its a jungle here.
And when they ask what is the gospel……they are just ready to pounce.
I’d leave while you have your faith and your sanity Bro.
Actually Barney – we point people to Jesus and His Word. Rosebrough and MacArthur are human and can get things wrong. Ramons issue is with God and His Word. Not us. Not Rosebrough or MacArthur. Too many people thinly they are Christian and have embraced a false gospel by so many popular heretics that they are telling Christians to get out of Chriatianity. People like Ramon and probably yourself would most likely enjoy the Jesus of the New Age movement- just like Hillsong and many heretical teachers enjoy. So please don’t condemn Christians who actually know the Christian Faith.
Barney – truth be told, you can “wing it here”. Unlike Brian Houston who automatically blocks anyone who disagrees with his views.
@BrianCHouston Blocking haters on Twitter is like sport. It gives you an adrenaline rush. 7:03 PM – 23 Aug 2015
http://pulpitandpen.org/2016/07/05/how-hillsong-and-brian-houston-are-destroying-christianity/
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
ZeeBoo – this “platform” allowed you to condemn Chris Rosebrough. #strawman
Philippians 1:9 “And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment…”
Spiritual discernment allows us to have knowledge of the true to identify the false, able to distinguish the voices of the false teachers from the voice of God. Abhorring what is evil; holding fast to what is good (Romans 12:9)
Cheers, Team Churchwatch.
“95% of Christians understand what you are saying.”
Barney, you pull #’s out of thin air, with nothing to base them on.
Similar to Brian Houston’s ‘preaching’ and ’teaching’. He has no scriptural basis for any of it. He says insane things and his ‘church’ and cult followers like you just believe it all.
“general hate talk between people.”
ZeeBoo, Sorry chap but standing up for the Scriptures is *not* ‘hate talk.’ It’s called confronting lies with the truth. If you can’t stand the truth, you might as well leave.
“and another thing to
allow a platform of abuse, disrespect and general hate talk between people.”
Since you are concerned about “providing platforms”, Zee Boo, why not go ask Brian C. Houston why he provides the Hillsong Conference platform as a means to introduce new and perpetuate old False Teachers (Rick Warren, etc) as Houston does his best to confuse and tear down the Body of Christ?
Zeeboo, using your logic the apostle Paul was sinning by writing verse 12.
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Galatians-5-1_5-12/
ESV a little easier to understand for us 21st century dummies:
I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!
http://versebyversecommentary.com/galatians/galatians-512/
Who was/ were were the unsettler/s- the rebuker (faith ALONE = salvation) or the false teachers (circumcision + faith = salvation)?
P.S. Bluntness is not hate talk. Guilt trip strategy in Christianese lingo is only a tiny, eeny meeny less obvious strategy than ad hominem attacks or distraction tactics.
Proverbs 26:1 As snow in summer, and as rain in harvest, so honour is not seemly for a fool.
“Enough of hiding behind the veil of discernment
Chapter and verse please where it says this.”
ZeeBoo, YOU give Chapter and verse where it slams Discernment and the Berean’s.
AND where it excuses FALSE TEACHERS SUCH AS BRIAN HOUSTON.
YOU stop kidding YOURSELF Chap.
It is you who needs to “get real.”
It is clear all you’re here to do is play your own foolish hypocritical mind games.
Interesting ZeeBoo – according to your own logic, you’ve just accused Brian Houston of promoting content from Satan and the “pit of hell”.
You do realise he does a lot of name calling, fingerpointing and labelling from behind his pulpit right? Start with him before starting with us.
And by your own standards – what do you do with Jesus who called out the Pharisees, calling them brood of vipers? Sepulchers? Hypocrites?
He name-called. Are you suggesting that kind of behaviour is from the devil or from the pit as well?
MATTHEW 12:34
“You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good. For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks.”
@Zee boo,
Those were Jesus’ own words. Quite the ‘hater’, wasn’t He?
“Little bit different don’t you think to the name calling of everyone on this website.”
This Team ChurchWatch moderator is one of those you call “everyone”. Have I ever called you a name?
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Zeeboo, you haven’t shared your opinion on the actual topic.
Was Hillsong right to take over this church via manipulation of an undiscerning pastor, (who did so without his own church members’ consent)* – YES or NO?
—-
* Cuckoo bird lays its eggs in OTHER birds’ nests. Despite the name it certainly is smart…. gets other birds to do the hard work first, then reaps the benefits! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo#Brood_parasitism
“Clearly you are ‘missing the forest for the trees’.”
No what is clear is you zeeboo are living a big lie. And spreading poison.
“They can run their church however they wish. If the people didn’t want to be taken over they can go somewhere else.”
What a hideous attitude.
That’s the Hillsong attitude. Christianity is the problem – not them.
“What does it matter if Hillsong took over the church?”
*The sheep (church members) did *NOT CONSENT * to the “shepherd”/ hireling
(so-called pastor):
* taking them to different pastures (turning church into business franchise)
* swapping grass for weeds (exchanging bible teachings for secular pep talks with bible verses added to give an appearance of godliness to the undiscerning)
* making them pay for those same weeds (high pressure sales pitches and guilt trips to buy Hillsong merchandise/ increase tithing and donations)
* being forced to eat weeds or starve (protesting church members told accept changes or else)
You need to read the epistles to individual church leaders to see the difference between biblical church directions/ commandments and business models/ goals.
e.g. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus+1&version=KJV
Is Hillsong:
* blameless? (Mark Driscoll at 2015 Sydney conference controversy, cover-up of father’s pedophilia)
* holy? (naked cowboy incident, inappropriate photos and video clips)
* teaching correct doctrine? (Brian Houston needed to backtrack from “Christians and Muslim worship same God” after widespread Christian protest)
* holding fast to God’s word (bible verses consistently taken out of context to backup Word-of-Faith, lite-diet version) and not men’s opinions (refuses to openly state whether for/ against homosexuality)
Note the pattern of behavioural deceit?
Titus 1:16 They [Hillsong] profess that they know God; ****BUT IN WORKS**** they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Why would any Christian leader knowingly choose to become a part of now (in)famous* Hillsong franchise unless it was for” filthy lucre”? Why should genuine Christians have to leave a church they loved because they loved truth more than their pastor now did (AFTER liaising with Hillsong leaders)?
If you cannot see what is wrong with what has happened to that church then you are at best as low in Christian discernment as anyone can possibly be without intellectual disabilities.
—-
* The extremely highly respected Pulpit and Pen website is also now warning international Christians about this counterfeit church.
http://pulpitandpen.org/2016/03/17/why-hillsong-music-is-dangerous-for-your-church/
“What a hideous attitude.”
Mercy or Judgement?
“What does it matter if Hillsong took over the church?”
It means that church has converted to a cult that sends people to hell. The ramifications are eternal.
“Mercy or Judgement?”
What a stupid comment.
In response to YOUR comment….
False social gospel, pure rebellion, or just plain apostasy?
Ramon Feliciano, you are in a rage against people that “judge”, and yet you are just as judgemental. Equally. Yet the Bible says to stand for true doctrine. Not for your feelings.
And sanctification cannot be put into the Gospel. That is not nitpicking. It is the difference between heaven and hell (Galatians 1:6-9). Plenty will say “Lord, Lord”, but be in the lake of fire for eternal torment, because they believed in their works/sanctification, instead of the finished work of Jesus as doing it all for them. Pedro Garcia obviously didn’t teach you the difference. He doesn’t teach the truth of God, the Bible. He teaches Hillsong heresy.
Ramon,
Jess has a clear understanding of the Bible, the Gospel, the differentiation between Justification & Sanctification, and how to identify False Teachers.
Yet you Ramon do not, you mix and confuse everything together, your understanding is completely muddied.
“Pedro Garcia obviously didn’t teach you the difference. He doesn’t teach the truth of God, the Bible. He teaches Hillsong heresy.”
Jess is correct. The plain fact of the matter is this Ramon: one can get saved ANYWHERE. Yes even in a CULT CHURCH. Because God can save His children ANYWHERE. He calls them out. It is the Holy Spirit that the individual responds to, not the CULT MESSENGER. One can overlook the lies and find the Lord by finding Him in Bible verses even in a CULT CHURCH. That does not mean the CULT CHURCH is correct, it means the GOSPEL is POWERFUL, it has the power to save no matter in whatever venue one may see it, simply be reading the correct Bible verses. That is due to God’s grace, He made the Gospel simple. It is not due to a CULT MESSENGER’s great teaching, it is IN SPITE OF a CULT MESSENGER’s (Brian and Pedro) lousy teaching and their misinterpretation and manipulation of verses for their own benefit/advancement/greed. The powerful Bible verses stand alone and say it all.
Cheers, mate.
“The plain fact of the matter is this Ramon: one can get saved ANYWHERE. Yes even in a CULT CHURCH. Because God can save His children ANYWHERE. He calls them out. It is the Holy Spirit that the individual responds to, not the CULT MESSENGER. One can overlook the lies and find the Lord by finding Him in Bible verses even in a CULT CHURCH. That does not mean the CULT CHURCH is correct, it means the GOSPEL is POWERFUL, it has the power to save no matter in whatever venue one may see it, simply be reading the correct Bible verses. That is due to God’s grace, He made the Gospel simple. It is not due to a CULT MESSENGER’s great teaching, it is IN SPITE OF a CULT MESSENGER’s (Brian and Pedro) lousy teaching and their misinterpretation and manipulation of verses for their own benefit/advancement/greed. The powerful Bible verses stand alone and say it all.”
So if you truly believe all that you have written above – then why this ridiculous website that allows and even encourages Christians to attack one another?
Something non-Christians no doubt find hilarious and think you’re all a bunch of hypocritical idiots with all the infighting.
Hardly a good example to the world.
Greg, the Hillsong cult is not Christian. So Christians aren’t fighting Christians. Christians are fighting a cult.
By the way, Greg, even if Hillsong were Christians, they are still to be rebuked in public as having done much wrong. The Bible tells us to (1 Corinthians 5:12). It always amazes me how nobody from any Hillsong place I’ve ever met, knows anything about the Bible.
Pedro sounds like a real “tool”,to me.What an idiot.No wonder so.many so called christians have a bad name.Hillsong needs to be re branded,”Hillpong”!,because it stinks in Gods nostrils.Enough said.