Another excellent article from Pulpit & Pen:
Within the Charismatic Movement, discernment is often viewed as this supernatural ability to see if the spirit which influenced something is a good spirit or a demon. That is not what true discernment is in the modern context. Others within the same movement say that discernment is a supernatural feeling you get that tells you if someone or something is sound or unsound. They treat it as if you can simply feel when something is wrong, similar to how Yoda could feel a “disturbance in the force” in the Star Wars movies. No such feeling is ever described in the Bible.
Some people, including one popular blogger, David J. Stewart, sit at their computers and write about how wrong people are on certain issues that aren’t essential while at the same time believing many heresies (or false doctrines) themselves. This isn’t true discernment, this is just hypocrisy. Further, it is an insult to those who do practice true discernment as well as the Holy Spirit, who grants the gift of discernment.
A lot of so-called evangelicals think discernment is simply about decision making. While having a sharper discernment should certainly affect your decision making, that’s not exactly what discernment is either. True discernment, as succinctly stated by Charles Spurgeon, is the ability to distinguish between right and almost right–truth from error, and orthodoxy from heresy.
False Prophets have plagued God’s People since Eden. Satan could be considered the very first heretic and the very first false teacher, intentionally leading Adam and Eve astray for shameful gain. Throughout the times leading up to Christ, many false teachers and false prophets arose, such as Balaam, Korah, and Honi ha-M’agel. This continued throughout history with people such as Arius, Pelagius, Sabellius, Macedonius, Johannes Agricola, and Joel Osteen. For every one of these, there has been an Athanasius, an Augustine, a Tertullian, a Jerome, a Melancthon, and a MacArthur–all raised up by God. The defense of the Church against heresies like Arianism and Antinomianism and the Prosperity Gospel is a practical example of discernment. Discernment’s main goal is to defend the Church from heresies, false teachers, and cults who seek to deceive members of the Church. The perfect standard for sound theology is the Bible, therefore, that is what each teacher must be judged by. Discernment should be practiced against every teacher, every doctrine, every book, and every group. The discerner determines if they are sound, and warns the Church about those who aren’t. With this discernment info, we know who to evangelize and which teachers to avoid listening to.
The Bible has a lot to say about discernment. In fact, nearly every book in the New Testament has something about discernment inside of it. The books of 2 Peter and Jude were written mainly to encourage discernment. 3 John is a book written by the Apostle John warning Gaius about a false teacher named Diotrephes. Similarly, the Apostle Paul wrote warnings against Hymenaeus, Alexander the Coppersmith, and Philetus in his two epistles to Timothy. Chapter 5 of Ephesians encourages people to practice discernment and to maintain separation from those who are not theologically sound. In Acts 17, the Church in Berea was commended for being discerning while in Revelation 2 the Church in Thyatira was rebuked for being undiscerning. Paul tells the Church in Ephesians 5:6-11 (ESV),
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not become partners with them; for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
Source: Pulpit & Pen; contributed by Brandon Hines; http://pulpitandpen.org/2016/09/15/what-discernment-is-and-isnt/
Published: 15/09/2016 Accessed: 19/09/2016
Hillsong Church Watch 
Hi Churchwatch. I would like to know what are your views/beliefs in regard to women speaking in the church. On the basis of 1 Corinthians 14:34-45. I entered into a very heated debate with someone in leadership at a C3 church today as I was REFUTING and denouncing this practice. Glenn
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
Glen – you will have everything clearly covered here
https://carm.org/women-in-ministry
https://carm.org/1-tim-212-13-and-women-pastors-and-elders
https://carm.org/should-women-be-pastors-and-elders
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch
“Others within the same movement say that discernment is a supernatural feeling you get that tells you if someone or something is sound or unsound. They treat it as if you can simply feel when something is wrong”
So what you guys are saying is that you cannot have a personal relationship with God. That’s what it basically says above.
ZeeBoo – we don’t have to rely on our feelings to determine you don’t know God. God says in His Word your that your relationship with him is up Styx Creek without a clue.
The proof is in your ability:
1. to defend the damned
2. twist Jesus’ words
3. twist our words
4. to slander
Christ is right about you – you are of your father the devil and you speak his native tongue. You need to get in the bible, get on your knees and repent of your sins, those sins Christ has died for.
“So what you guys are saying is that you cannot have a personal relationship with God. That’s what it basically says above.”
how could zeeboo pulled this megabizarro interpretation from cw’s quote is beyond belief. zeeboo is highly skilled in anti-logic. he got himself a phd at hillsong antichrist college in brian’s favorite study…. anti-logic.
way to go zeeoboo…. worst. poster. ever.
Yo cw you didn’t answer my question but just attacked me. My question was on topic too……
So what you guys are saying is that you cannot have a personal relationship with God because any supernatural feelings are false and God never gives us any feelings of any sort?
Yeah?
ZeeBoo – there are different moderators approving comments here. Some have less patience with you.
You do come across as being spiritually immature (which is why we asked the question “how old are you”). That’s ok as long as you continue to grow into spiritual maturity and not be swayed by every wind of doctrine. If you rely on feelings as indicative of a relationship with the Holy Spirit then you will be easily deceived.
And Zeeboo – you seem to minimize sound doctrine by putting forward your feelings/experiences and that’s a recipe for deception and disaster, not spiritual maturity.
Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?”
Ephesians 4:14 “That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive…”
Cheers, Team Churchwatch.
“discernment is a supernatural feeling you get that tells you if someone or something is sound or unsound. They treat it as if you can simply feel if something is wrong.”
Hebrews 5:14
14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
So you are also saying the mature who have practiced constantly would not be able to discern through their relationship with the Holy Spirit.
And people who read their bible daily, practice what they read, minister to others, have a close relationship with the Holy Spirit, know the truth of God’sWord, spend time doing God’s will, put God first in everything they do and are obidient to God cannot have a supernatural ‘feeling’ from the Holy Spirit that guides them in discerning if someone or something is sound or unsound?
Is this what you are saying CW?
Thats fine CW. It just seems to me that you don’t believe feelings are relevant at all by the way you (and others) make statements.
Where as I would say it is highly relevant, in fact, critical – and if you are ignoring supernatural feelings you are potentially missing massive opportunities.
Do you have supernatural feelings ZeeBoo? Can you please tell us how you discern by using these supernatural feelings? Can you please point out the scriptures that teach us how to discern using these supernatural feelings?
#ItsNotThereEither!
The bible is what Christians should be led by at all times. Bible outranks feelings always. “Fire is a good servant but a bad master.” So are feelings.
Psalm 119:105 ***Thy word**** is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
“and if you are ignoring supernatural feelings you are potentially missing massive opportunities.”
amazing. but not surprising.
spoken just like the brian houston clone that u r. zeeboo and brian could be twinz.
2 salesmen of garbage gospels.
Do you get a burning in your bosom?
Zeeboo, I don’t often visit blogs I commented at when I was in middle stages of developing ex-Charismania (2010). Tonight I refound it via surfing.
Here is the link a mature Christian had given to me: http://www.metropolitantabernacle.org/Christian-Articles/Charismatic-Churches-False-Doctrines/Sword-and-Trowel-Magazine
Half-way down there are 10 points: you fit the profile of point 1 perfectly.
“Any experience, testimony, dream, vision, prophecy, teaching, etc. that is supposed to be from God but doesn’t align itself with the Bible is not from God at all.”
But you defend heretics. You suffer from cognitive dissonance chap.
“It’s not black and white CW.”
Jesus makes it black and white ZeeBoo.
“Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.” Matt 12:30
You are continually proving that you hate Jesus Christ as it is you who stands with those who are against Him and His Word.
When we are dealing with men Jesus Christ himself calls criminals (and the justice systems and laws of different lands prove this to be the case), you ZeeBoo are the one that stands on the side of the damned. Not us.
Why do you fail to heed Jesus’ Words?
“See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray.” Matthew 24:4-5
What is your problem ZB?
It is a very person focused article. Its purpose is to educate non-Charismatic Christians about how to fellowship with/ minister to people who made a conscious decision to leave Charismatic churches in general.
The three types profiles – disillusioned (e.g. promised miracles didn’t come true), disaffected (annoyed with previous church) and mentally/ emotionally disturbed ex-Charismatics – they describe in the introduction are especially instructional.
Correction: unstable **spiritual** temperament
If you knew the grace of God, you’d actually care about God and His Word.
You don’t. So don’t lecture us about the grace of God when that is the very thing you are ignorant of.
It is pathetic ZeeBoo that you accuse us of “manipulating the truth” when you haven’t stopped twisting the truth to defend your man-made idols. Your antics are pitiful.
ZeeBoo – your last comment has been deleted. Once again, how old are you?
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“Well yes CW, by using the bible of course. How else? Is there another way?”
well no cw he cant, because zeeboob doesnt know the bible.
“Do you get a burning in your bosom?”
yes zeeboo does. call him zeemoo because hes more like a mormon. the burning in his bosom is from his 2nd cult father joseph smith who also got a burning in his bosom while wearing those glassbottom hats, magic stones, & secret spectacless.
how many of those do u wear when u read the bible, mr zeemoo??
“If you think it is black and white you are being decieved.”
incredibly funny comment coming from a brian houston defender!!
cw is the one deceived?? for calling out brian houston’s lies, while u r the one defending houston zeemoo??
that is outrageously psycho.
“If you think it is black and white you are being decieved.”
thats like a drunk trying 2 tell u, u have a drinking problem rofl !!!
one of the funniest things ever written!!
We received a comment via email from Joe Bloggs (we decided to post his comment under the topic of discernment (or lack thereof):
Hi
I’d first like to start out by expressing my utter confusion at the point of your website. You say that you are a bunch of pastors and church leaders, yet you are doing everything you can to stop your own job from happening.
As pastors your primary job is to bring people to Jesus. Since the birth of Hillsong there have been over ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE that have given their lives to Christ through this Christ centred and bible based church, where every preach and every song is meticulously studied for biblical relevance and accuracy.
You seem like a bunch of old men stuck in the past, scared to accept that to appeal to the world these days, you need something better than hymns written in the 15th century, you dynamic preaches that are not mono-tonal and dull and you need charismatic figure heads that are willing to give their all to Jesus in a blatant way despite the bigoted response from people like you.
If it wasn’t for Hillsong, I would still be addicted to sex and drugs, i wouldn’t be in a committed marriage where Christ is the centre of our marriage (Ecclesiaties 4:12), our home, our finances and our lives altogether. I’ve been involved in youth ministry for three years, and in this time I have prevented suicides, stopped child exploitation and sexual abuse cases. If it wasn’t for Hillsong, many of the teenagers that I deal with every day would not be here any more. This is why your website is DISGUSTING. by trying to force people away from Hillsong because you can’t handle the fact that we are a growing community, and you’re stuck in the past. If it wasn’t for Hillsong, I know teenagers that wouldn’t be alive today.
I think you need to rethink you attitude. You need to be thinking about people giving their lives to Jesus, rather than doing things your way. If we were to look at this in biblical terms, you are nothing but the Pharisees
I don’t see how Hillsong are dangerous, but I can see how you are. I would be interested in hearing you explain how we are dangerous. I don’t see how Hillsong’s teachers are counter-cultured to that of the bible, but I can see how yours are.
Seriously, sort your lives out. You are just wrong and you are actively trying to push people away from Jesus, which means that you are failing at your job. As a church, we are united with all churches, that teach the Love of God, from all over the globe – we have a united cause (to bring people to the Kingdom of Heaven) and it doesn’t matter if it’s at a charismatic church or a traditional setting. As long as we bring people to Jesus and teach them biblically, we are doing our job properly. You trying your absolute best to turn people away from Jesus shows you are acting as false prophets, and we all know what happens to the false prophets.
Sincerely
An antidisestablishmentarian – a hater of this website that teaches hatred against the House of God
Easy way to answer. If Joe Bloggs really wants to know what’s wrong ** and to see that Christian apologists are saying similar things to Hillsongchurchwatch:
Look for sermon reviews and LISTEN to minimum 2 of them (despite Rosebrough interrupting frequently and his bluntness).
http://www.piratechristian.com/search?q=Hillsong&f_collectionId=55de6923e4b0316f2d24335c
Read ALL the entries from archive website of late apologist Ken Silva: http://apprising.org/page/1/?s=Hillsong&submit=go
Read ALL entries from website carrying on Silva’s tradition: http://pulpitandpen.org/tag/hillsong/
—
** Joe Bloggs has to decide at the start whether the bible or personal experiences/outward results are/ will remain the foundations of his faith. If the latter then he may as well not start the challenge. He should seriously ask himself if he is determined to stay a Hillsong believer even if that means he realises he is not on the narrow and difficult path a Christian must walk after all.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+14%3A28-32&version=KJV
He has to be willing to think with his head not heart this time + compare what Hillsong AND “Pharisee” critics say with scripture. This will take a lot of TIME and personal effort- is Joe Bloggs willing to take up that challenge? Is his desire for truth stronger than feelings of enmity towards Hillsong’s critics?
Warning: I did those things starting late 2008. Is Bloggs prepared to risk experiencing the same mourning pain I did? Is he willing to need to move on if he can no longer believe in and support Hillsong’s teachings and practices? Is he willing to lose church leadership status and all its perks and become an ordinary Joe in an ordinary (therefore boring by Hillsong’s definitions) church again?
Joe Bloggs states ” If it wasn’t for Hillsong, I know teenagers that wouldn’t be alive today.” Hillsong doesn’t “save” anybody.
A common trait of the Hillsong apologist is to give credit to Hillsong rather than to Christ and His finished work on the cross for those He is saving. Guess what Joe Bloggs? Many of us have walked down the road you’re travelling, and yes, it’s tough to admit that you might be wrong. Detoxing from dangerous teaching i.e.Hillsong and their different gospel, different Jesus, is a long painful process, but He does walk with us on that “Emmaus road”.
Galatians 1:8 “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.”
Cheers, Team Churchwatch.
“Joe Bloggs states ” If it wasn’t for Hillsong, I know teenagers that wouldn’t be alive today.”
@Joe Bloggs:
(1) You don’t really know that, because you can’t foretell the future, therefore contrary to your arrogant boastful claim, in reality Dear Soothsayer, you really do not know what would have happened if they had never gone to Hillsong.
(2) They may be alive today, but how many of them have been led to believe the real Gospel? Name that number for us.
(3) Here’s the scariest point of all. Tell us this now…. How many of all the people who have ever attended Hillsong have learned from Hillsong one of the false gospels, now erroneously think they’re going to Heaven, and are not? And never will, because they have been led into a lie.
So lookie lookie here, Mr Know It All, how many people has Hillsong led further astray from the Truth than they already were? Probably tons of damage there, mate.
“I don’t see how Hillsong are dangerous”
That’s because you don’t see much of anything with your foggy vision. Preaching a false gospel (like Hillsong does) is possibly the most dangerous thing you can do to another individual. At bare minimum, contrary to your errant mindset, it isn’t helping anyone.
“over ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE that have given their lives to Christ through this Christ centred and bible based church”
This church is not ‘Christ centred and bible based.’
To support your errant hypothesis, and prove everyone else wrong, it should be easy for you to provide links to BIBLICAL sermons given by Mr Erroroneous himself, Brian C Houston. Let’s see the links.
If people believe that Hillsong has led one hundred thousand people to the Lord, then we have an amazing bridge to sell you.
I too would like to see the documentation supporting that (completely unfactual) ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE claim. Prove it, otherwise you are a liar!
“Probably tons of damage there, mate.”
But hey not as much damage as if they were dead. Your argument lacks any depth glennyboy.
“But hey not as much damage as if they were dead.”
You ZeeBoo who don’t GET IT AT ALL. First off, you ALSO ARE NOT A PROPHET. You ALSO DON’T KNOW they would be dead. That’s more coming from YOUR warped mind this time. Talking with You and Joe Bloggs is like playing team ping-pong against two Dead Zombies.
Second off, (you don’t get ANYTHING here do you, in the foggy mental state/capacity you dwell in). False Teachers ARE NOT THERE TO HELP YOU. It is ONLY GOD who a person can rely on (and ESPECIALLY NOT false teacher types as Brian Houston), and God would send someone besides a False Teacher to rescue those teens. Furthermore… Brian Houston is not the only person on earth, though You and Joe Bloggs fantasize that he is.
“Your argument lacks any depth glennyboy.”
My arguments lacked no depth. By comparison, since you mentioned arguments, your foolish posts have been the ones “lacking depth”. I won’t waste time counting how many hundreds of foolish posts you’ve made people read, but surely your count is 100+ and they’re ALL shipwrecked somewhere at the “shallow” end of the pool alongside Brian Houston’s own shipwrecked personal so called “faith”.
“glennyboy”
Why are you so immature ZeeBoo?
Glenn – ZeeBoo reads his/her bible through the Hillsong lens.
ZeeBoo further demonstrates ignorance by the constant use of “red herrings”. And ZeeBoo, a red”herring” by definition, is a piece of information which is or is intended to be misleading or distracting.
ZeeBoo used the ‘red herring” by saying there were no churches in the New Testament yet a clear reading of various scriptures says there were.
1 Corinthians 4:17 “For this reason I have sent to you Timothy, who is my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, and he will remind you of my ways which are in Christ, just as I teach everywhere in every church.”
1 Corinthians 11:18 “For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it.”
Matthew 18:17 “If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as [a]a Gentile and a tax collector.”
Romans 16:4 “who for my life risked their own necks, to whom not only do I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles;..”
There’s quite a few more but ZeeBoo appears not to be interested in what the bible is saying about many things.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Hello Churchwatcher,
Though ZeeBoo appears to think he is fooling everyone, in reality he is fooling nobody except his own self. I believe you have summed him up rather well. Thank you for adding these additional insights, Glenn
‘I felt ablaze with a desire to go through the length and breadth of Wales to tell of the Saviour: and had it been possible, I was willing to pay God for doing so.’
Wrote Evan Roberts, the man at the centre of the Welsh revival of 1904–1905. He spoke about how the Spirit of God gave him an overwhelming experience of God’s love.
He was filled with compassion and a desire to tell others about Jesus.
Spirit-Powered Living – Something this blog lacks.
If you’re Greg the theology student you’ll be able to understand this long but interesting article from a critic of the Higher Life movement. It describes just how experience-focused Evan’s ministry was. http://faithsaves.net/evan-roberts/
From pro-Evans webpage: towards end there’s a short description of his minstry’s sad ending.
http://www.revival-library.org/pensketches/revivalists/robertse.html
P.S. John MacArthur made this somewhat controversial claim at the 2013 Strange Fire Conference
“…Show me a person obsessed with the Holy Spirit, and I’ll show you a person not filled with the Holy Spirit.” https://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/TM13-6/testing-the-spirits
Do you agree with that – YES or NO?
If you knew the Spirit of God Greg, you would know His Word. If you had love you would Love the Word of the Spirit.
It is you who lacks love in heart, mind and strength to both God and neighbour. Don’t bring your degenerate nonsense here.
“He spoke about how the Spirit of God gave him an overwhelming experience of God’s love.”
Kind of like all those new-age ‘enlightened’ gurus who also promise to help you to “experience God’s love” too, right greg?
I don’t elevate the Welsh Revival, Asuza Street or the Lakeland Revival above Scripture.
Sola Scriptura.
Too easy to get damnably bollocked.
Hi Thinker,
Would you please be able to provide the link regarding worship song evaluation that you provided in the last couple of weeks or so? Now not sure which thread it was posted on. I thought I’d bookmarked it but can’t find. Also tried online searching for it to no avail. Thanks in advance!
It was in the feedback section. http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/worshipsongratings.html
“Satan could be considered the very first heretic and the very first false teacher, intentionally leading Adam and Eve astray for shameful gain.”
This “church” is/was not built on the foundation of Christ. It is/was built on the foundation of Satan. Because it teaches man-made doctrines and doctrines of devils. It is all about wealth & success & being happy. Jesus did not tell the Apostles to expect a lifestyle of leisure, why should Brian Houston be telling this “church” to expect that? Hillsong is/was built on & based on lies. Nothing more, nothing less. Just lies.