We would like to be factual as we can on HillsongChurchWatch. If there is any information on HillsongChurchWatch that you think is not accurate, please contact c3churchwatch@hotmail.com. All constructive criticism will be appreciated.
ABOUT THIS BLOG
This blog is about monitoring the Hillsong ‘Church’ movement. The head of this movement is Brian Houston.
- We will be observing the Hillsong Movement’s values by critically examining their beliefs.
- We will be examining their teachings by comparing their doctrines, behaviours and methods to the historical texts of the bible.
- We will be learning about Brian Houston, head of the Hillsong movement, by exploring his history, knowing his influences, sources and correctly defining his language.
- We will be monitoring the Hillsong organisation’s vision, events/issues and outcomes and compare them to the standards of the gospel and New Testament church, revealed in the New Testament scriptures.
- We will be testing Brian Houston’s spirituallity by comparing the persons of the Trinity in the bible with Houston’s ‘Godly’ encounters, his ‘Jesus’ and his prophecies from ‘God’.
WHY WE STARTED THIS BLOG
This blog does not take/ask for money from people. This blog exists solely to warn people of the dangerous Hillsong Church.
We started as a group of concerned leaders, pastors and elders from various denominations around Australia on Facebook. The main focus of HillsongChurchWatch is to warn and inform people about this church, those both inside and outside the movement. We ask that you pray for those caught in the Hillsong Church Movement.
ABOUT OUR NAME
The name ChurchWatch is based on the scriptures in Romans 16. In our banner we use Romans 16:17 to highlight the origin and concept of our name and what we do.
“I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, but I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil.” Romans 16:17-19
“I appeal to you, brothers”
We used this scripture so Christians are reminded that it is the Apostles that are appealing to us, (not us), to…
“to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught”
Considering that Paul is warning Christians to watch out for those who teach contrary things to Christiantiy, we have compiled a general biblical check list to see if they are rightly marked as a threat to Christianity. Our criteria is in this order:
1. They preach a false gospel (not good news).
2. They preach a false Jesus.
3. They preach a false spirit.
4. They preach a false Christian faith.
5. They preach blasphemies and promote heresies against God.
6. They falsely prophesy to manipulate people.
7. They reject the bible.
8. They parade false titles or false credentials to convince people they are genuine.
9. They promote or associate themselves with false teachers, prophets and leaders.
10. They fulfil the signs of a cult (counterfeit religion), using the acronym BITE and the + – x % model laid out in the below video.
“avoid them”
We would encourage Christianity to avoid such cults that pervert the grace of God and use it as a means to justify sin and evil behaviour.
“For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.”
We believe that the Apostle Paul is speaking directly in today’s culture, describing the false teachers we are monitoring and marking, who do indeed fulfill this criteria laid down by the Apostle Paul.
“For your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you”
We believe we need to promote Christ-like love and obedience by submitting to the above scripture and encouraging Christians likewise to avoid and warn people to flee from these dangerous religious groups.
“but I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil.”
We encourage our readers to not remain juvenile and immature but to “be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil”.
ABOUT OUR LOGO – CHIREYE
THE EYE
The eye is to represent how we are monitoring or ‘watching’ various religious groups disguised as Christianity in accordance with Romans 16:17 – “WATCH OUT for those who cause division…”.
THE CHI-RHO
At the center of the eye is the famous chi-rho. These are two combined ancient greek letters. These letters are pronounced ‘Ch’ (chi) and ‘r’ (rho). These two letters were used to represent the first two letters of Christ. Here is the ancient Greek word for Christ: Χριστῷ.
This symbol was used in the early church (like the use of the fish and anchor symbols). However, this symbol has remained popular since it can be seen carved in the catacombs of Rome when the early church was hiding from persecution. Similarly today, more of the traditional and reformed churches are re-using this symbol or other greek symbols in protest how our culture and the false church are persecuting those who hold to Christ’s teachings (for example see Pirate Christian Radio and Alpha & Omega Ministries).
While many of us write from Charismatic, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Reformed, Baptist and Anglican backgrounds – we see the importance of today’s church reforming to Christ’s Word and His sound doctrine. Thus we wish to promote the use of the chi-rho to mean reforming to Christ and His teachings. The chi-rho is placed in the center of the eye to represent discernment and how we must test everything through what Christ has achieved on our behalf on His cross. Our eyes must always be on Christ, His Word and His Work.
THE ALPHA & OMEGA
The letters on either side of the chirho are ‘a’ (alpha) and ‘o’ (omega), the first and last letters of the greek alphabet. This is another reference to Jesus where he says, ‘I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end’ (Revelations 1:8; 1:11; 21:6; 22:13). This is to simply re-inforce the truth that we must always see Christ as center and not ourselves.
MEANING OF THE COMBINED SYMBOLS
We made this logo because it reminds us to not just watch out for those who can deceive us. If our eyes are not centered on Christ, we too can deceive ourselves. It is Christ that gives us the eyes and sight to see.
The scripture behind this is, “O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified” (Galatians 1:8).
It is Christ that grows and matures us (Eph 4). It is Christ that grows us in His discernment (Hebrews 5). It is Christ that can help us discern (kritikos) “the thoughts and intentions of the heart” (Hebrews 4). And it is Christ that gives us the ears to hear and the eyes to see what His Spirit is doing in His Church today (Revelations 2-3).
We do understand symbology and we are not familiar with the eye depicting Satan. The Illuminati eye is now associated with the satanic even though that used to be an old Christian symbol representing the ‘All-knowing God/One’ or ‘God the omniscience’ (omniscience meaning all-knowing). (Apparently this term was used heavily in the Old Testament Wisdom literature.)
For clarification sake, when we created the symbol, we never associated our logo to the illuminati or the devil. We chose the chir-eye because as our name (Church Watch) suggests, we are keeping an eye on dangerous movements opposing his Christ and His teachings.
Our opinions are useless – Christ and His Word are forever. We hope people who visit our site, grow in the knowledge, maturity and discernment of Christ and His Word and become faithful churchwatchers in light of Romans 16:17.
Email all comments and questions to c3churchwatch@hotmail.com
Hi! Great blog but I have a serious request there is a movement of hillsong in NYC. Led by Carl lentz and this man needs too exposed ! Thanks
Too be exposed * thanks !!
haha you mean “to be exposed”
Carl Lentz using a fake verse in The Message to justify not speaking about homosexual sin. http://mywordlikefire.com/2015/04/09/gay-activist-says-church-leaders-must-be-made-to-take-homosexuality-off-the-sin-list/
Yes he does he is full of pride not God he is going into the world and partaking of the world and pulling celebs. into his church, Church in the wild-JAY Z. what kind of preacher promotes hooking up in church, Vanity Look at the person sitting next to you and tell them there HOT? Carl Lentz what kind of teacher talks more on sports and self and lust of the flesh more than God Carl Lentz.
WOW in the 70’s Brian and Bobbie Houston started this church with nothing, they saw a need in Sydney for Jesus, just like Carl saw a need in New York, just like Brians son Ben saw a need in LA. Brian Houston is the head pastor of the church yes that is correct but he has a board of theoligically sound pastors who keep him accountable.
do not judge for the same scale of judgement you use, will be used for you. The time you have taken out of your life to expose an honest man is heartbreaking, you know Brian was molested as a child right? You know Carl struggled with addiction right? You know we are ALL broken people and that’s why need Jesus? We do not seek perfection we seek to be like Jesus who was perfect. There is a difference.
You twist a couple of sentences and make it out to point that Carl Lentz, a family man who loves his daughters is full of vanity? just so you can keep the church a body of people in line from a computer. If I were face to face with you I would take my shoes off physically clean them and walk off from your presence if you examine a pastor and his church this hard, I wonder how your spouse feels… I wonder how your kids if you have any feel? you need to learn that YOUR PERCEPTION IS YOUR PERCEPTION and if you keep the same perception your heart will harden! be transfromed by the renewing of your mind.
You don’t seem transformed you seem pissed off by Hillsong, I don’t see Jesus on this page I see BLAAAA I want attention.
BUT to my original point, physically what are you doing in your life to move the body of christ daily do you go to church? do you talk about christ in public? do you serve the widow do you take care of the orphan? or do you hide behind a computer I’d love to sit down with you and talk to you but I’m sure it wouldn’t last long, you have a closed mind. you are starting a brood of vipers you and everyone who thinks hillsong is illuminati hahahaha I went to college there, it’s not. they are humble, secure people in christ, who at the end of the day don’t konw why they are famous?
to quote someone in united whose name I won’t mention, my friend is married to him, I posed the question. How did you guys get so big? What did you guys do? His response, “idk bro a lot of us were just surfer bums who went to church together, started to write songs, and God breathed on it.” Far be it from you to believe Jesus be known by people, and far be it that Jay-Z get’s some Jesus from Carl why do you assume it’s the other way around.
Ya’ll haven’t even spoken to any of these people, Christ said if you look at a girl with lust you might as well have had sex with her. Carl is homedown southern boy from South Carolina, he’s trying to fit in in New York, so sure he might wear a leather or be spotted with Jay-Z, what he said about, celebs in his church. in an interview with hot 97 radio you can look it up on youtube. “it goes both ways, when we had Charlie Sheen, Jay, B, the beibs in our church I was shocked, but it’s New York you never know, when they do good I’m praised and Jesus get’s glorified when they do bad I get cursed.”
You a terrible example I challenge you tomorrow to leave your house tomorrow and share christ with a complete stranger.
The moderators will let others weigh in on this comment “Tlou” – in the meantime we decided to break your comment into paragraphs for easier reading (if you don’t mind).
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“WOW in the 70’s Brian and Bobbie Houston started this [cult] with nothing …”
Quite right.
Brian and Bobbie started their corporation with no brains, no talent, no clue, no theology, no authority, and, most importantly, no Holy Spirit. (And they have continued to run it the same way to this very day).
CW already knew that, tlou. So what’s your point?
“WOW in the 70’s Brian and Bobbie Houston started this [cult] with nothing …”
That’s right. WOW is right. They started this cult with nothing, and they ended up with a corporation which has NOTHING SPIRITUALLY but is FINANCIALLY RICH.
All OTHER worldly corporations should be envious of their worldly friend and competitor Hillsong. They should all model themselves after this lying giant if they too want to grow their worldly businesses to $100M / year.
“they saw a need in Sydney for Jesus, just like Carl saw a need in New York, just like Brians son Ben saw a need in LA.”
you meant to say they saw an opportunity in Sydney to make money, just like Carl saw an opportunity to make money & a name for himself in New York, just like Brians son Ben saw an opportunity to make money in LA.
“Brian Houston is the head pastor of the church yes that is correct but he has a board of theoligically sound pastors”
ah sooo? really? name 1 theologically sound anything at Hillsong.
“pastors who keep him accountable.”
when one is accountable to a board of yes-men, that is the same as being accountable to a cardboard dummy. brian is not accountable to the Word of God, which is something none of these dummies understand anyway.
“do you serve the widow do you take care of the orphan? or do you hide behind a computer I’d love to sit down with you and talk to you but I’m sure it wouldn’t last long,”
and if we sat down with tiao while he rattled off the list of widows and orphans he’s taken care of, that wouldn’t last long either. under 1 second sounds about right.
There is a church in the Twin Cities with multiple campuses that is growing like lustrife. One of the pastors is best friends with Brian Houston. They have good rock-praise music and cover Hillsong pieces as well as their own. At first I thought they were on the right track, but now am asking some tough questions.
Why do you hide behind your keyboard. Why don’t you go and have a face to face chat with the people you’re “exposing”?
“Why do you hide behind your keyboard.”
Why does Brian Houston hide behind a pulpit?
Wow. You sound like a politician when you don’t answer the question. The question was about you, not Brian Houston.
How interesting that you should state “You sound like a politician when you don’t answer the question.” That question concerned those who supposedly hide behind keyboards, and yet you yourself post as “Anonymous”.
Obviously you haven’t the faintest idea of what irony is; from this it is a simple matter to deduce that you are not particularly bright (and that you probably attend hillsong).
Keep your chin up though, Anonymous: if you continue your assiduous “tithing” to your beloved master Brian Houston, perhaps your IQ will miraculously improve (not that Brian would care, as long as he has your money).
Wow. “Anonymous” is a fun name like any other username. Most people don’t actually put their real names up on the internet because they don’t know who will see them. Look at other usernames on your own site! But I’ll tell you. My name’s Emily and I live in Texas. I’ve never heard Brian Houston preach in my life. Don’t make assumptions when all you’ve read is two sentences.
People don’t worship Brian Houston. If he’s wrong, (which I’m not saying is impossible), people have only been misled. Our Master is CHRIST, not a mere human. Listen to Hillsong’s music. It has nothing to do with loving money or “getting rich on God”.
I know what irony is so apparently it isn’t obvious. “Assuming is the lowest form of intelligence” as I’ve heard said many times. Use facts that you know instead of assumptions. It really helps in first impressions and conversations. All you’ve done is make a terrible first impressions and create a ton of arguments. Now, let’s try to move on and have a civilized conversation.
I don’t agree with Hillsong’s denomination. Or the fact that they allow women to preach. But that doesn’t mean they are totally evil. If that’s all they’ve been taught, how are they to know any different? They need to be told. Not talked about behind their backs. That NEVER helps a situation. Ephesians 4:15 says this: “Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ.” Don’t be a backstabber. You may not be able to talk directly to the people you seem to have a problem with, but you CAN email the church. They’ll answer. Just speak lovingly. Tell them the problem. And if they don’t respond, know that someone read it. And, if they didn’t show it to anyone else, they saw it and it could change their lives. It all depends on how you deliver the message.
I will pray for you.
God bless,
Emily
what…how is he hiding? I think the position he’s in is the most open. Ugh this blog disgusts me.
“Ugh this blog disgusts me.”
Well then why are you reading it, James? Shouldn’t you be giving Brian Houston more of your money, or working for free at his “church”?
Why are you wasting precious time here, when Brian and Bobbie need you working hard for them so that they can continue to live in the style to which they have become accustomed?
Iwas shocked when i saw this blog because i never thought someone had the right to publicly judge someone when you yourself have not talked to the vicim, brian Houston nor were you in the meetings. also as pastors where do you find the excuse that makes it ok to bash someone? especially as i said you do not know the full story. also how do explain a hate blog? you say brian Houston uses scripture to manipulate so have you, i don’t see a difference. if Brian is wrong then so are you. does your church know? Jesus sees everything how is this walking in love? also the sarcastic comments that bring people down are very rude and un called for if you are that offended and not able to respond rightly you should not have this blog.
“I was shocked when i saw this blog because i never thought someone had the right to publicly judge someone when you yourself have not talked to the vicim, brian Houston nor were you in the meetings.”
Oh… So now we shouldn’t have the rights as Christians to biblically discern publicly the immoral conduct of insitutions like Hillsong.
No rights.
If you are Christian, you need to soberly think about this. Cults like Hillsong do NOT tolerate Christianity. Victims of cults like this commenter prove it. You are getting in the way of this man and his movement.
This is why we are anonymous.
Listen, I have been in Hillsong, many times and I will say that the man is a man who is on fire for God. Maybe he is a little unconventional. David was unconventional but he was a “man after God’s own heart.” He murdered Bathsheeba’s husband, one of his own, best, most faithful soldiers. He had concubines. Moses murdered an egyptian soldier. He was chosen to lead God’s people out of slavery from Egypt. What is your point, exactly? Your use of scripture seems out of context. Jesus came to save the unsaved. Jay-Z is unsaved. Many of the youth in NYC are broken, hopeless and living with little or no direction and I have been there and have seen with my eyes people who used to do drugs, get high and drunk on a daily basis, turn around their lives and change. Who is perfect, you? Are you into, idolatry with your symbols? Yet, the more important matters of.the law like Jesus said, you neglect. Such as mercy, love and kindness. Your use of scripture depicts false usage of religious doctrine by Hillsong which is dividing the faith. According to whom? You. Seems Satanic. Satan also uses scripture out of context to trick people. Are you sure you are not doing this? They said that Jesus was a drunkard who was lazy and hung out with tax collectors and sinners. Jesus responded, “But wisdom is known by her actions.” You ever been to New York, all seeing and all knowing? Last I checked in the scriptures, God was all seeing and knowing. Sounds suspiciously like Illuminati in disguise, throwing daggers! You make statements but where is your proof. Fancy talk does not equal facts! Ca Lentz may be unconventional but he loves God and Jesus and he preaches about that, using The Bible and in turn, brings people to Jesus. False Jesus. Where? Oh, Rock and Roll is from the devil, right? Wrong! The message is positive, powerful, they don’t use double bass, flash satanic messages, use inaproppriate language or worship content. He has tattoos and wears t-shirts and dons a goatee. Does that make him bad? Makes you an idolater. You know what Jesus really looks like? Me, neither. But what Jesus did and what came out of his mouth mattered. Not what he wore, how long his hair was. Even Paul said that there are those who preach the Gospel for ill gotten gain but he praised God that the Gospel of Christ was preached, nonetheless. I am using this scripture not because I believe Hillsong is a hoax but I think it’s a good thing that Hillsong has lones around the corner for people to go to Church, instead of getting boozed up and going to a concert.
“I will say that the man is a man who is on fire for God.”
Proverbs 19:2 “It is not good to have zeal without knowledge”
Read your Bible, you ignorant dolt.
“Your use of scripture seems out of context.”
Brian Houston has said that you need more money. Could you please give us the proof for that from the Bible?
I sure would but they hide from me. They have blocked me from all there sites why? cause they do not want the light shined on them. They enjoy walking in the flesh in the dark filling there lifes with self desire. They making God a Corporation and it is wrong i would love to tell this to there faces but they are not willing to face it.
um dude, you can’t block someone from reading a website. nice lie.
as for corporation… are you also commenting on every denomination’s website? they are all incorporated… #openseyes
so you’re feeding more people than Hillsong today?
so you’re freeing more people from sex slavery today?
so you’re bringing more people into the kingdom of heaven today?
probably not, none of the haters here do, they are too busy making rules; and symbols with only the first two characters of Christ, instead of the whole word = occult symbols this website has.#irony
Brian Houston, and Hillsong….. are acting in place of the serpent offering the “Apple” to the Church.
No change, same old story, 6000 years later. just the names changed.
Satan has made friends with: Houston, Rick Warren, Hybels, and Furtick. Many True Christianas are falling for there lies. These men has NOTHING to do with Jesus Christ. Nothing.
Peter. Couple of things… How is speaking out, hiding? Secondly, the pointing out of error in person applies to brothers. In case you hadn’t noticed, Brian Houston is not a brother. Paul told Titus, speaking of false teachers such as Brian Houston, Phil Pringle, Ashley Evans and so on, that their mouths are to be shut, not reasoned with. And what makes you think these deceivers have not been spoken to face to face? I have personally tried to personally reach all those I mentioned to no avail. Point is, that false teachers, according to Scripture, do not deserve a personal warning, but rather, a public rebuke. Souls at stake, but more importantly, is the reputation of the Redeemer. What these men and their contemporaries are doing brings great shame to Christ.
Yes I agree! Brian Houston, during one of his sermons, which can be found on youtube, preached that we serve the same God as the muslims! Blasphemy and False teaching! To begin with Allah I believe was a pagan moon God secondly muslims do not recognise Jesus as the Son of God, hence muslims DO NOT worship the God of the bible! To follow this man’s teachings (at Hillsong) is heading down the path to the pit of hell. We must always line up church doctrine with the pure and Holy word of God!
Hi Alana,
(this might be a bit out of topic and more on a point in your comment, but I find these informations need straightening and quite useful when spreading God’s love to our unreached neighbours)
“Allah” is the Arabic word to call God, literally having the same meaning as “Elohim” in Hebrew, “Deus” in Latin, “Kami-sama” in Japanese, “Jumala” in Finnish, and other translations in the millions of languages in the world. I’m Indonesian and in our translation of the Bible names are translated into the Bahasa (which, in a lot of cases, is influenced by a number of different foreign languages, mostly Arabic, Sanskrit, and Latin), including the translation of the name “God” into “Allah”. So it’s more of a semantic matter here.
The God that the Muslims serve is the same God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That’s why they also acknowledges Hebrew prophets and some nation leaders as their prophets (Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, Elijah, etc.). The difference is that, as you point out, they do not recognise Jesus as God, only as a prophet (though they acknowledge that “the Prophet Isa” is the Chosen One–the Messiah or the Masih in Arabic), they do not believe that it was Jesus Himself who died on the cross, and therefore not believing in His resurrection. Following from that, they believe in salvation through good deeds and not through Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross for our sins.
Love x
Amanda T – interesting question, do Christians and Muslims worship the same God? (Matt Slick)
No, Christians and Muslims do not worship the same God. There are similarities in their views of God, but there are also distinct differences.
As you can see in the chart below, each affirms that there’s only one God, and that he is eternal, knows all things, is omnipresent, and omnipotent. However, Christianity is radically different from Islam in its affirmation of the doctrine of the Trinity where God consists of three distinct and simultaneous persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Islam denies this and accuses Christians of teaching polytheism.
Quran, 5:73 (Yusuf Ali), “They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.”
As you can see, Islam denies that God is a Trinity. Also, in Christianity Jesus is the second person of the Trinity, who is in flesh. But Islam denies this as well.
Quran, 5:17, “In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: “Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every – one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things.”
Quran 5:75, “Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!”
Therefore, we conclude that Christianity and Islam do not believe in the same God.
CHRISTIANITY
God: Only one in all existence – Affirm
God: Eternal, no beginning or end – Affirm
God: Transcendent -Affirm
God: Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent – Affirm
God: Trinity of three Persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) – Affirm
God: Incarnation of Jesus (2nd Person of Trinity) Affirm
ISLAM
God: Only one in all existence – Affirm
God: Eternal, no beginning or end – Affirm
God: Transcendent – Affirm
God: Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent – Affirm
God: Trinity of three Persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) – Deny
God: Incarnation of Jesus (2nd Person of Trinity) – Deny
http://carm.org/do-christians-muslims-worship-same-god
…although, getting back to the topic, I haven’t actually checked what did Brian Houston say about the matter. I’ve just bumped into this website and went straight to this About page after reading another article linked from Google Search, and I just noticed there are new posts regarding what he said about it. Am checking it 🙂
Hillsong has tried to pull down our site and has shut down our YouTube channel.
We can honestly say they have something to hide from the general piblic and they do not like us allowing the context to speak for itself.
This site is a fraud, you cannot leave a comment ? Makes you wonder who the false teacher
You are treading on very thin ice when you rail accusations about a man of God. I pray (unlike your willing to do) that God will show you mercy and not give you what you deserve. And when you quote scripture, try not to use a BLACK highlighter……! God is love, if you can’t love your brother you can see, how can you say you love Jesus whom you have not seen ?
“You are treading on very thin ice when you rail accusations about a man of God.”
It’s OK Thomas; it’s not a man of God we’re talking about here, it’s Brian Houston.
Thomas Lee, What is your definition of a man of God ?
Which god does Brian serve ?
Is he a brother when he brings another gospel of prosperity and wealth and ignores the suffering saints ?
If his father was convicted and sent to jail when he should have been , would Hillsong have progressed with the Houston brand being tarnished with Paedophilia ?
Is he our brother when Brian supports, welcomes and enforces the Catholic false religion ?
What makes you think they dont pray?
Stone him ! Like the Saducees and Pharisees were going to do to the prostitute ! Oops, I forgot….those words Jesus spoke, “Let him without sin cast the first stone”
Somehow I bet you had a stone !
Posts like this get me very down. Let me ask you this: How many people in the last year have you guys personally led to Jesus. And you spend all your time slating other believers that God is using to do great things. I bet the enemy is very happy at the division caused here. Sure i may not theologically agree 100% with lots of what Hillsong teach, but I’m sure when I get to heaven God will share with me a few doctrinal issues that I have wrong. It’s so obvious that Brian thinks its important to teach a sermon that’s relevant to our lives. So, what lessons can we glean from it. So, how do we live this stuff out on our monday morning lives. That’s not heretical, its just obviously not your style. Now stop wasting your time, shut this blog down and go share your faith with the lost.
I am ‘glad’ there are discerning wise watchers at the wall Tom. ‘I’ was a ‘hillsonger’ for years and have given hundreds and thousand of my dollars to that place. Like me, I understand how easy it is to go on the defensive, but please.’listen…to them…’really listen and do you self a favour….’seek the Truth’ IN the Bible for yourself! Like me, The Holy Spirit will ‘open your eyes to the deception’ and the many twisted scriptures that fly around in that place…it is such a subtle danger….you would not notice it if you weren’t seeking for yourself….There ‘is’ a hidden monetary evil going on in that place and it ‘is’ evil. Remember….the enemy works in subtle ways…it ‘seems right’….seems ok…..stay long enough though and you’ll either ‘become like them…completely dumbed down to the Truth of the True GOSPEL’ or Hopefully, you’ll wake up like many of us ex-hillsongers have. I still believe in the ‘One’ that does not deceive and that who will ‘never’ do such things to his children – but these days…i enjoy spending time with my Saviour one on one…even whilst hanging out the washing. God Bless you. Jenny
Dividing oneself from false teachings and exposing the false teachers is biblical! In fact if you’re going to lead people to Christ as you are telling people on this site they should do, you better lead them to the right Jesus with the right gospel because it could have eternal consequences! Yeah you might not agree with some of their doctrine. If it isn’t biblical doctrine all the way you are being deceived! Now that you know that you need to GET OUT OF THERE NOW!! Get back to the true gospel of Jesus Christ before its too late! Jesus is coming soon!
I agree 100%
Spot on, Tom.
Who gave you the idea that we do not share our faith with the lost? Brian Houston?
Can we just say we are very active in our everyday evangelism.
Sadducees and Pharisees, that’s what you all are. Why don’t you instead of slandering someone be man or woman enough to state your name, your church and your Pastor ? I’m asking because I already know your too cowardly to do that . Spew hate….wow, but in the name of Jesus ? You people better get real
That’s awesome. I just can’t stand groups that slate other Christians and don’t go after the lost, and frankly I’m sure Jesus feels the same way. Unless you can provide evidence that Hillsong denies the penal substitution of Christ, the body resurrection of Jesus, the deity of Christ or any other key doctrines then I suggest you stop attempting to cut off an arm on the body of Christ. They are the Church just as you and I are. We may not agree 100% but guess what, that’s okay. Doing what your doing is spiritual self harm as we are all the body. Your arguments against Hillsong are all on secondary theological issues. There is much in the scriptures regarding creating disunity and division in the Church.
Come on guys, let’s forget this silly quarreling and focus on the 2 key points that Jesus said we were here for. Those are this: Love God and Love People. It’s as easy as that. And creating websites anonymously slandering Church denominations in the name of heretic rebuking is doing neither.
And this isn’t even the right way to rebuke Hillsong, like you have the God given authority to do so anyway.
“That’s awesome. I just can’t stand groups that slate other Christians […]”
Hillsong is not a church; it is a cult. Ergo, those who run it are not Christians, and are thus fully deserving of all the opprobrium that they attract for preaching a false gospel.
“Unless you can provide evidence […]”
You’ve got the boot on the wrong foot: the onus of proof rests not on detractors, but on Hillsong – and they have consistently shown by both their words and their deeds that they have nothing whatsoever to do with God.
“[…] I suggest you stop attempting to cut off an arm on the body of Christ.”
Hillsong is not part of the body of Christ; they are a bloated and putrid corpse.
“Your arguments against Hillsong are all on secondary theological issues.”
Hillsong spreads a false gospel, and that is most certainly not a “secondary issue”. If you doubt that fact, just wait till you see how Brian Houston fares on the Day of Judgement.
“There is much in the scriptures regarding creating disunity and division in the Church.”
So tell Brian to stop lying from the pulpit.
“Come on guys, let’s forget this silly quarreling [sic] […]”
You’re the one who is arguing, so if you think it’s silly then, yes, you should stop.
“And this isn’t even the right way to rebuke Hillsong […]”
Wrong again. This is a particularly effective way to rebuke Hillsong.
“[…] like you have the God given authority to do so anyway.”
And what authority do you claim? Or are you simply content to kow-tow to your spiritually-abusive gnostic overseers?
Okay, but if you are accusing a body of Jesus’ following believers as being heretics I’m pretty sure it’s important to provide a tiny bit of evidence that they are actually heretics. And i’m talking primary theological issues. Just saying. Otherwise it’s slander and Jesus isn’t too big on that. What is the false gospel they preach?
And if I’m honest, I know Hillsong don’t have it perfect, no church does, but God has used them in amazing ways. And I won’t even be able to see Brian Housten in heaven, he’ll be too near the front.
A lot of judgement coming from Zorro. Hillsong are a bloated and putrid corpse? Wow. It’s blowing my mind that someone that loves Jesus can say that about someone else that loves Jesus over a disagreement.
I’m sure your heart is right, but you have it all wrong. It’s like the devil doesn’t need to even do anything because most of the Church is doing his work for him.
That makes me sad.
“[…] you are accusing a body of Jesus’ following believers […]”
Wrong. They are a pack of vain, vacuous, money-grubbing pretenders.
“[…] it’s important to provide a tiny bit of evidence that they are actually heretics […]”
Evidence abounds on this site and many others besides, and in any case Brian Houston et al are continually condemned out of their own mouths. But you prove right Jerry Garcia’s observation that “You ain’t gonna learn what you don’t want to know”.
“[…] Hillsong don’t have it perfect, no church does […]”.
Perfection or lack of it doesn’t enter into the equation, because Hillsong is not a church – it is a cult.
“[…] God has used [Hillsong] in amazing ways.”
Hillsong is a stench in God’s nostrils.
“[…] I won’t even be able to see Brian Housten [sic] in heaven, he’ll be too near the front.”
I bet that’s what Brian thinks too – I wonder if he knows that Jesus stated “So those who are last now will be first then, and those who are first will be last.” Maybe you should look that verse up and meditate on it.
“A lot of judgement coming from Zorro.”
No, just the facts.
“I’m sure your heart is right, but you have it all wrong.”
Actually, if someone’s heart is right, then God will lead them in paths of righteousness. It is precisely because Brian Houston worships money and success that he has not ever known those paths – he has not repented of his sin, and persists instead in clinging to his worthless idols, which have no power to save him. That is why Brian has absolutely none of the power or authority that should characterise those whom God has called to ministry.
Okay Zorro
“Hillsong is not a church – it is a cult”
How bigoted & prejudice of you. It would be like me going up to my local Catholic church and saying it’s a cult. “Oh but that’s different” you’re probably thinking right now, shaking with rage and anger because HOW DARE SOMEBODY ACCUSE A CHURCH THAT HAS A STRONG BELIEF IN THE LORD AND JESUS CHRIST HIS ONE AND ONLY SON! Well hey, guess what? The people that go to Hillsong, including myself, believe in the same common belief of Jesus being our saviour as every other Christian denomination. In what ways is it a cult? You are providing no factual evidence, and I’m sitting here laughing in pity at your failed attempts in trying to persuade yourself that Hillsong belongs to the devil.
Stop being such a lowlife, and at least have some respect. In the bible, Jesus says “Love one another as I have loved you”. It is the same bible you read, is it not? Why all the hate?
“It would be like me going up to my local Catholic church and saying it’s a cult.”
And you’d never do that, would you? Because you agree with their dogma that we are not saved by faith alone, but by being baptised into the catholic “church” and by good works.
Doesn’t sound like a cult at all, does it? All those Christians martyred by Rome down through the ages was just a little misunderstanding, wasn’t it? And we really could have got by without the reformation – after all, Brian Houston thinks the pope is a great bloke, doesn’t he? (If only Martin Luther had attended hillsong, he could have saved himself so much trouble).
Truly we are to love the Lord our God with all our hearts, minds, souls, and strength and love our neighbor as our self. The love of the Lord God is the first 4 of the 10 commandments, which includes not worshiping idols, the Catholic church has broken this commandment. Should Hillsong then embrace what is unclean, or did Jesus’ death on the cross sanctify idol worship?
Jesus’ command to love our neighbor as ourselves embodies the next 6 of the 10 commandments. The Catholic church has broken at least 5 of those. Does Hillsong acknowledge the historical fact that millions of real Christians were murdered for their faith by the Catholic Popes? Love forgives sins, and obeys Jesus’ commands (doctrine), Love has nothing to do with embracing heresy, and false teachings for the sake of unity.Titus 1:9; 2:1; 1 Timothy 4:16; 6:3; 2 Timothy 4:1-3; and the list can go on regarding sound doctrine, all you have to do is look it up, but you won’t because you love the lies of men, not the truth of God’s word, or sound doctrine.Is your face flushed with anger, is your chest seething with rage at my words? Do you wish me harm, are you laughing in offended scorn yet? Well if not, then keep reading, if you have the guts.
We are commanded to hate evil and love good (Amos 5:15; Romans 12:9). I just love how people point out Jesus’ love without accepting his righteousness and justice. Did Jesus love the Pharisees? Yes. So then he embraced their false theology right? No. According to Jesus, the Pharisees didn’t know Scripture, they quoted rabbi’s and made God’s word of no effect. He warned the people to not follow them, because they were hypocrites.
Bottom line: Catholics are not Christians, and therefore not our “brothers” and “sisters” in the faith of Jesus Christ. Their Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible (Gal. 1:8) and do you know why? Because they have Mary as a co-redeemer with Jesus, so as you can see, their false doctrine incriminates them. So you tell me Ally, why is a “Christian Church” like Hillsong embarrassing the Mother of all harlots, the Catholic Church as having the same Son of God? Does your Son of God need Mary’s help to do the work of salvation? I hope not. This is a major Catholic doctrine, did you know that?
Yes, I can love Catholics and tell them the truth without joining in unity with them to pray to Mary, or saying the rosary. Anyone who “Ally’s” themselves to this apostate religion will share its fate. Read Revelation 2:18-29 for details on the corrupt Jezebel Church. Your church is also the Laocacian Church. I can say that because I was delivered from the heretical Word of Faith doctrine through great personal loss. So the question is, are you ready to be thrown into the Catholic Church’s sick bed – are you ready for the Great Tribulation? Take Jesus’ word’s in Matthew 7 very seriously. And lest you say I’m “legalistic”, please keep in mind that word isn’t in the Bible, but “hypocrite” and “lawlessness” are. I have removed the plank of word of faith heresy from my eye, and now, keep still as I seek to remove the same speck from yours. That’;s the truth, that’s my love for you talking,and so I exhort you to repent before it’s too late,
Well said. Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing!
Ok seeing as you quoted from revelations , can i ask you this tho whom was the Lord referring when he said of the churches with false doctrine in particular the Jezebel church “come out of her my people lest you partake of her sins” The Lord is clearly telling NOT to believe the lies or false gospel full stop, these particular lies were one of placing your faith in other words defining , believing in Mary for salvation does that exactly, believing in post tribe, mid tribe , pre tribe DOES NOT neither does prosperity teaching to a certain extent , me believing that I am rich in Christ is not a lie, me however wanting to consume my lust for material possession detracts me from Christ but may be not necessarily take me away from Christ provided i dont worship the material possessions although this is a very fine line indeed. Again the problem with this website is we have no idea who is behind it or what churches are , I wish they said then we can scrutinise the church and see what its history was. For me it is simple any church that has aided and abatted the killing of anyone deserves to be removed/disbanded so many european churches history was one of persecuting jews , in my opinion all of those churches very single one needs to disband I’m sorry its that harsh . Christ is about LOVE his body should be exactly the same. Maybe ill be placated with serious repentance and mourning for the pain they caused. SO ONCE AGIN TELL US THE CHURCHES INVOLVED here so we may know and see if they have an impeccable past.
Well said Tom.
John 13:34-35
34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
..and….
2 Timothy 4:3-4 (King James Version) 3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to
themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
and further…..
the flock is a pastor’s duty but most pastors today are more
concerned with their membership rolls and bank balances rather than the role they were selected to play, namely the guidance and protection of their flocks. So, sadly the flocks have not been taught correctly, in SOUND DOCTRINE where these lovers of filthy lucre who make merchandise of their flocks are to be found. No they are not hiding in bars, clubs, Hollywood or in other secular arenas.
They strut their stuff openly in churches, on so-called ‘Christian TV’ programs, as ‘Christian’ rockers and ‘Christian’ writers. Like the foolish virgins who slumbered and slept not realizing that the oil had run out of their lamps, so do the dumb sheep of today unwittingly follow the very butchers who are leading them to the slaughter! ……..Keep in mind that in the Bible the enemies of Godly men from David and the prophets to Jesus and the apostles were religious people, they were found in
positions of leadership within their temple and churches. The people who crucified Jesus were the top hierarchy of the church of that day! So it is today – the
enemies of true believers are not sitting in some far away lands, no they are right here at home and they come in the name of Jesus as pastors of churches and prophets
on TV.
PLEASE…wake up from your slumber! PLEASE….
Hope you will expose Prime Minister Kevin Rudd for this abomination in Australia:
http://www.upworthy.com/a-pastor-asks-a-politician-why-he-supports-gay-marriage-it-seems-he-wasnt-prepared-for-his-reply?c=fea
fyi, I have written two books exposing Rick Warren.
See our website
Hi, thanks for reminding me of this site. Don’t know why I forgot. Have just forwarded the link. Are you able to complete the ‘About’ blurb? A short bio and where you are based would be great so I can refer people to your site. Perhaps like the one on C3 site? Or at least, would you mind sending me a message at TNP with your details? Thanks, Sherryn 🙂
@churchwatcher, am I correct in understanding this is your site? I posted a reponse for you on my blog (two actually). I am greatly, nay, mightily encouraged to see you have tuned into the issues of the emergent church, new age/occult influences, PD lies and Mark Driscoll’s wolf/sheep act amongst the plethora of false teachings.
One of the main goals of my blog was to connect with discerning Christians here in Australia, and I feel led to stir up some face-to-face meetings with other believers here, and perhaps arrange some talks in Bible-believing churches for next year. Have you done anything like this? Any thoughts? Thanks, Sherryn
Your slogan is certainly valid !
You are an anonymous lot that we can discern and avoid”…….. But not bother watching.
Please post more on your evangelism efforts for the harvest is great but the workers are few
Now I need to know more about the Resurgence ’13 Conference. Why are Greg Laurie and Moody’s Crawford Loritts involved with Marc Driscoll and Matt Chandler? And is James McDonald now Emergent church movement as rumoured??? Info anyone?
@ mrsblar – All you need to know about James MacDonald available here….
http://theelephantsdebt.com/
http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/the-elephants-debt-former-elders-scott.html
Hi folks,
I’d like to think that after all I’ve been through that I’ve gained some discernment, over the years – most of it with hindsight. I’ve had to ‘escape’ from several aberrant “churches” in the last 35 years, and none of those exits were pleasant events, but were necessary for my own spiritual well-being. Thank God that someone warned me!
Regarding Hillsong here in Brisbane, I met a woman in a shop last year, who told me that her and her fiance were attending Hillsong. I asked her why she went (she had obviously seen through some of the thin veneer painted on the walls there) and she told me that she had ‘friends and family’ still there, and didn’t want to leave, for fear of what might happen to them.
When I asked her to give me some of her internal insights into the organisation, I got a bit of a shock. Instead of describing a loving, caring family atmosphere with good teaching some problems, but mostly OK, she told me the following:
1. Hillsong Brisbane appeared to be run more along ‘business’ lines, rather than like your average suburban church, which did good works in the community, and was accountable for time and money spent.
2. One of the main emphases was young people (youth and young adults) were very much into networking, social media, and as a result, a lot of ‘dating’ went on there amongst that crowd. Sounds all right ? – after all, most churches don’t advertise themselves as a “dating service” but then again,most Church people end up meeting their life’s partner ‘at church’, don’t they?
3. The structure of Hillsong internally, resembled that of a “shopping mall”, that just happened to have a ‘church’ part out the back somewhere, if you felt the need for one! With all of the different outlets, (bookshop, formatted clothing store, church cafe, and offices for each different department) it resembled a “shopping mall”???
As for doctrine and practice, well, we didn’t even get that far.
I remember that, as a young convert, I heard Frank Houston’s ‘testimony’ tape about he had been converted in the Salvation Army in NZ, and much later on, when in full-time ministry had “received a vision from God” to come to Australia and start churches under the CLC banner (Christian Life Centre). While opportunities in Adelaide and Melbourne were lacking at that time, Frank was convinced of God’s ‘leading’ to go to Sydney, and eventually the Goulburn Street AOG began. Frank Houston was one of my early Christian ‘heroes’ of the faith.
During the mid 1980’s, I attended a training school in Sydney to do with my job back in Newcastle,and decided not to go home one weekend. Instead, I went into the Goulburn Street church, and witnessed the “:birth” of Hillsong.
It was the annual Missionary Sunday, where all relevant AOG missionaries from PNG and the Islands came in to seek support for the following year (as was their custom back then – where are all these missionaries now, under Hilllsong, and the ACC?)
After they had each given their spiels, Frank Houston stood his son Brian up, with his wife Bobbie, and 35 other people in the congregation, and announced the commencement of “Hills Christian Fellowship”, which would eventually become Hillsong.
The aftermath of this announcement some nearly 30 years later, is that Frank Houston was sent home in disgrace, accused of being a pedophile by a former congregant back in NZ. His son is now the head of Hillsong and is constantly accused of financial miss-dealings, false doctrines, and questionable ‘arrangements’ in relation to his personal tax affairs. Hillsong has also been branded a cult by the media and other decent Christian people and churches alike.
In relation to all of your detractors above, let me say that there will always be those who wish to defend the undefendable. False teaching, unbiblical practices, and those leaders who are in gross sin and error should be exposed, as a safeguard on the rest of Christ’s Body, the church.
Link: http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/1Tim/Opposing-False-Teachers-541
“If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then maybe it’s a duck – or a goose?”
So much for the ‘vision’ given by God – it would have been better if Frank Houston had stayed home… and Hillsong as we know it today, would never have come into existence.
Links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Houston
Hi Austin,
Wow I appreciate your insight. I am a 22 year old former attendant of Victory Life Center in Perth and could not agree with this ladies description as it directly relates to a very similar experience in vlc. Although I was asked to leave as a 17 year old after confiding in a church leader I had drank an alcoholic beverage at a party. It was then publicly announced to my friends that i was possessed by the devil! Before being asked to leave I was asked to ‘prove my commitment to the church’ by scrubbing toilet floors for 6 months, making larger donations and increasing my volunteering hours to more than 15 hours a week rather than working a part time job around my school hours.
My story is not unique unfortunately. The people I am still in contact with, like myself are not of faith these days. If i see people from that church in public they often ignore my hello’s or ask me to not associate with them.
What a pleasant bunch! What great teachings. I am sure Margaret Court’s team of pastors are enjoying their expensive lifestyles at the cost of the ever rotating door or young people being burnt forever.
it makes me sad Erikajane28 – when I read your experience. I am ‘so sorry’ that you were let down like that. Just remember…Jesus…’is not like that’. He himself is the perfect example of Love. 🙂 I pray your heart will heal, and you will, on your lifes journey come to know the ‘real Jesus’…just you and Him…what joy you will know, once you do. Love n Peace…..
Hello,
If you folks want to know a lot about the history of the AoG from about the 1960’s onwards, this “web journals” page makes a very interesting read – very interesting indeed… These pages are taken from the archives of the Southern Cross Bible College and were penned up by their church historian, Mark Hutchinson as of 2006.
It shows how the ‘old guard’ of AoG were replaced by the ‘new guard’ in the 1970’s and 80’s, and while it makes some credible comments about problems within the movement, reading between the lines towards the end, it appears that the rot set in with a relatively hidden and obscure person from a regional area, who later on gained prominence at state and eventually national level.
The current Hillsong and C3 nonsense didn’t start with Brian or Phil, but they are the ‘grandsons’ of the people who did ask Peter Wagner and other LRM people to come to Australia back in the late 1980’s, thus changing the face and pace of the AoG forever..
“certain men have crept in unawares…” Jude 1;4
http://webjournals.ac.edu.au/journals/ADPCM/a-to-d/cartledge-david-frederick-1940-2005/
Ohio!… 😛 Well, If I may ask, how’s your walk with the Lord? Does Our Christian walk really all bout watching? I do believe, Brian’s words are his to resolve before the Lord, but we if we’re always all about this discerning thing.. and absolutely lose the main point, of our relationship with God, then we are just some another Pharisee on the 1st Century B.C… And dude, life is more than seeing how others do something bad, or just talking something out of nothing.. ’cause if I myself would judge this blog, it’s nonsense this is not glorifying God, but this is causing division, this is making some useless commotion… God bless you bro… Good Day… ^_^
Dear Jrevealed,
You assert that “this (blog) is causing division”. I contend that it is doing the exact opposite, it is trying to undo the division caused by teaching that fails to represent the whole counsel of the Word of God.
No-where does the blog say that everything about Hillsong is evil nor does it suggest that Brian Houston is the spawn of Satan. It’s just presents information and informed opinion as a service, thus allowing you to form your own opinion. That’s the blessings of a democracy, right?
I’m sure you’re aware of the scripture “love the Lord with all your heart, and all your strength and with all your soul, and with all your mind” (Luke 10:27) and that you understand the importance of loving the Lord “with all your mind”. So can I suggest that you put your emotions aside for a moment, or at least balance them out, and re-read the blog.
If you calmly and intelligently follow those thoughts through in prayer and in meditation on the Word of God you will either be able to confidently say “Hillsong is a place that it directed by the WHOLE counsel of God” (that is the whole Bible, not just proof texts), or you will be able to identify some errors in their teaching that could be effecting how you understand God. Either way, you will have spent time in prayer and in meditation on the Word, which means that you’ll have come out on top.
Finally, your first and final comment sort of cancel each other out. You can’t really ask for God to bless someone moments after you’ve just spat at them with a fairly nasty quip like “If I may ask, how’s your walk with the Lord”.
Let’s not be agnostic Christians who get all panicky when someone challenges what we believe. And remember, what Paul said to the people who were getting all “I’m on Paul” and “I’m of Appolos”? Seems to me that’s there are a few too many people claiming “I’m of Brian” and forgetting what being a Christian actually means (the hint is in the name).
Long live open, respectful and healthy debate!
Hi – Just been having a good look around the site. I’m a little confused though. There seems to be a lot of information about Brian Houstons method of delivery, and, obviously, a lot of posts about money and Hillsong…. but I really can’t find anything that clearly indicates that Hillsong (or Brian ) is negative and should be avoided. The Catholic Church (among others) make BUCKETLOADS of money and I can happily assume the Pope has never eaten 2 minute noodles, so why the Anti Brian campaign?… Are you upset that they excluded you for being a pedophile?… I’m sorry to sound so rude, but there MUST be a very PERSONAL reason for this site. Please enlighten me 🙂
“so why the Anti Brian campaign”
First and foremost. Because it is a biblical thing to do.
We are anti-Hillsong simply because the Hillsong institutions proves again and again to preach a false gospel, invite false teachers to spread their heresies across the Australian landscape, reinforce false doctrines and operate more a like a cult rather than a Christian charity.
Furthermore, they are dumbing the intellect of churches globally through their anti-intellectual music and conditionally modifying behaviour through their controlling environments and emotionally manipulative culture. At worst, they are using similar mind-controlling tactics you see in the dangerous methods and ideologies of fascism.
Brian’s cult deals with people brutally. The evidence is in the stories of the people who leave. So please do not think we speak from an ignorance how these institutions work. They destroy people and refuse to address the dangers of their teachings, associations and systems.
I hope you will investigate these objective shocking revelations about Rick Warren that should alarm you:
http://www.perfectpeaceplan.com/post/is-rick-warrens-claim-that-his-book-is-the-best-selling-non-fiction-hardback-book-in-history-true/
Sincerely in Christ,
James Sundquist
Director
http://www.perfectpeaceplan.com
RICK WARREN, ZONDERVAN, HARPER:
“BESTSELLING NON-FICTION HARDBACK BOOK IN HISTORY” (Publishers Weekly), the Purpose Driven Life has sold over 32 million copies“
SOURCE: http://www.purposedriven.com/books/pdlbook/#purpose & http://media.zondervan.com/images/product/original/9780310329060.JPG
THE FACTS:
THE BIBLE: 6 BILLION +
(SOURCE: GIDEON)
A COLLECTION OF QUOTATIONS FROM CHINESE CHAIRMAN MAO ZEDONG: 6.5 billion copies
QUOTATIONS FROM CHAIRMAN MAO (THE LITTLE RED BOOK) Chinese, 1964, 800-900 million copies worldwide.
THE KORAN (Q’URAN): 800 million copies sold
XINHUA DICTIONARY: sold over 400 million copies
CHAIRMAN MAO’S POEMS: 400 million copies
BOOK OF COMMON PRAYER: 300 million
FOXE’S BOOK OF MARTYRS: 150 million
SCOUTING FOR BOYS: 150 million
THE BOOK OF MORMON: sold 120 million.
THE GREAT CONTROVERSY: ELLEN G. WHITE: 100 million
THE TRUTH THAT LEADS TO ETERNAL LIFE: 107 million
STEPS TO CHRIST: ELLEN G. WHITE: 60 million
BEN-HUR: A TALE OF THE CHRIST: sold 50 million
(Published by Harper. You would think they would know that 50 million is greater than 32 million since both Ben-Hur and
Purpose-Driven Life are under Harper (now Harper/Collins Publishing)
WEBSTER’S DICTIONARY: 24-100 million
***
SOURCES:
http://crunkish.com/top-ten-bestselling-books-of-all-time/
http://stephenslighthouse.com/2010/09/03/the-15-biggest-bestsellers-ever-after-the-bible/
http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/arts/literature/21-best-sellers.htm
http://publishingperspectives.com/2010/09/top-25-bestselling-books-of-all-time/
http://www.greatcontroversyad.com/The%20Great%20Hope%20Exposed.htm
http://www.cs.uni.edu/~campbell/gened/webster.html
****
Isn’t 50 million, 4-8 hundred million, and a billion, more than 32 million?
I have requested specific proof of page number, date, year of publication in Publishers Week for verification from Zondervan and Harper/Collins of the statement on Rick Warren’s site that Purpose Driven Life is the “Best Selling Non-Fiction Hardback Book in History”. NONE was provided.
George W. Slowik, President of Publishers Weekly:
“I’ve checked our site which includes all of our content from about 1995.
Also touched base with our religion editors and there is no finding of a
quote like that…We don’t generally use the term hardback.” September 30, 2013 11:33:08 PM EDT
WARNINGS FROM SCRIPTURE:
“But God forbid that I should glory , save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.” Galatians 6:14
“I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” Jesus Christ, John 14:6
“These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:…A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.” Proverbs 6:16,18
“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
****
AND HERE IS ANOTHER VERIFIABLY FALSE PUBLISHED STATEMENT BY RICK WARREN THAT HIS BOOK IS THE MOST TRANSLATED BOOK IN HISTORY.
re Rick Warren at World Economic Forum…I just revisited the videotape of that conference…
“My Islamic brother from Italy”…”It became the best-selling book…in English in a world history..it’s, next the Bible, the best selling book. And It’s the most translated book next to the Bible in over a hundred languages.”
Rick Warren, at World Economic Forum, “Faith and Modernization” Panel, January 28, 2008, Davos, Switzerland: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGytW4yh0C8 at 1hour 9 minutes in to 1 hour 11 minutes.
&
1:53-2:05 minute mark
Church of Tares – Purpose Driven Life, Seeker Sensitive
Purpose Driven Life book is not even listed on the list of the most translated books in English (language origin) on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_literary_works_by_number_of_translations (sort by language)
Warren made this claim in 2008. In 2013 he posts that his PDL Book is translated in 85 languages:
http://www.saddlebackresources.com/new-purpose-driven-life-book
Note that there are 7 books listed which are translated from English with number of translations greater than 85 that Warren boasted in 2008.
James Sundquist
Director
http://www.perfectpeaceplan.com
It’s really sad when churches are against each other. This website is one exampe. How can we as brother show love to one another, when we are at each other’s throats? I am rather ashamed and bewildered of this website and its comments against Hillsong. I am not personally part of the church, but I’m telling you, stop trying to pull them down. Can a church as blessed and positive as Hillsong be from the Devil? No! A Church of god can never stand strong when fighting against God. So I ask you, and beg of you, stop fighting against them, for they clearly have the favour of God on them, and so continuing this fruitless website is not just fighting against Hillsong, but against God.
Jackson, this site actually contends for the faith, once handed down to the saints. It’s not fighting against God per se, but is exposing those unfruitful works of darkness called Hill$ong. (Ephesians 5:11)
Hill$ong is not a Christian Church – it is an organisation that uses cult tactics and man made rules (some 30 of them) to promote its false doctrines (Emergent/WoF/ secret NAR) and its money raking schemes, such as tithing.
It has invited a whole bevy of false prophets and teachers to its platform over the last 30 years, and its leadership are so blind that they lead some 30,000 people into he ditch each week at their various ‘campus’ churches around the nation.
I believe that you need to go and do a lot of homework on them and other ‘churches’ before you come back and comment again Jackson – you don’t know how ignorant you are onthe facts behind Hill$ong, its origins, methodologies, money, dctrine and practices, noneof which can be suported by scripture.
If you think that lots of money, property and influence equals “the blessing of God” and His divine favour, then what about the Mormons, or the JWs? What about the RC ‘church’ who outdoes them all, being in untold wealth and property?
What ‘blessing of God’ are you talking about Jackson???
Apollo – blacklisting Newt…. has resulted in some very interesting “corralling the goats” comments via email. The “sheepskin” definitely fell off as he passed through the gate.
Favour of God on them? Are you blind, deaf and dumb?
BRIAN HOUSTON: Brian challenges you to look beyond yourself, live according to the principles of God and see His blessing on your life as you become a money magnet.
JESUS CHRIST: Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
Now who do you think is telling the truth: Jesus Christ or Brian Houston?
“Can a church as blessed and positive as Hillsong be from the Devil? No!
for they clearly have the favour of God on them, and so continuing this fruitless website”
Favour of God on them? Are you kidding me?
BRIAN HOUSTON: “Brian challenges you to look beyond yourself, live according to the principles of God and see His blessing on your life as you become a money magnet.”
http://www.amazon.com/Need-More-Money-Brian-Houston/dp/0957733607
JESUS CHRIST: “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.”
Who’s telling the truth, Jesus Christ or Brian Houston?
What a laughable lie….
http://www.amazon.com/How-To-Maximise-Your-Life/dp/1922076325/
@churchwatcher – yes indeed – Newtaste is really ” a goat in sheep’s clothing” isn’t he? Maybe the time of the trolls is over, and maybe you’ll have more genuine seekers come your way? I hope so.
You’ve got some really good solid info on these wayward cults spread over your sites, but it doesn’t take too much controversy to scare the sheep away, and encourage the goats and trolls to come back… 🙂
Newtaste has been trolling here for a long time.
I never understood why he was allowed to post so much of his garbage in the first place quite frankly.
Whats obvious is nerdtaste is in total rebellion towards God.
Fernanda – Newt….’s comments (via email), are being kept for a potential article on: “What happens to the troll when you longer feed the troll.” #partofthemoderndaydowngrade
Sounds very interesting. Am interested to read what goes on behind closed doors.
This “Newtaste” person is the best proof I’ve seen so far that Hillsong is a cult.
Brian Houston has done a real big bad number on his head.
How very sad for you and others like you, that your website and the focal point of your “ministry” is to point out the perceived errors of others and only point fingers of accusation. Get busy doing the TRUE work of the Kingdom – loving others, doing good….pick up your cross. Perhaps then you won’t have so much free time to rail against your brothers.
But even as I type these words, I know that is impossible for a Pharisee and/ or Saducee. My prayers are with you, my poor misguided Brethren.
Hi Alan,
Do you really want to go with dripping sarcasm and feigned compassion? That’s how you’re going to defend your stance? By belittling and ridiculing and covering it in the pretense of piety?
If you don’t agree with the information in the blog, then just explain why or present a counter argument, but personally attacking the author without pointing out the errors in his argument, is really pointless and only serves to make you look less credible.
In fact, it does even more than this. It actually supports the author’s argument that Hillsong and groups that run their program on high octane hype, operate by drawing on people’s emotions. So far many of the objections to the blog article are just emotional diatribes, nasty accusations and thinly veiled insults. If Hillsong and Brian Houston are completely innocent, then present an argument for it and stop using scripture like you’re in a slanging match at a pub.
With regard to the author/s, he has provided ample evidence in support of his argument, and is acting in keeping with biblical instructions to expose teaching that does not line up against the whole counsel of the Word of God. This is indeed the work of the Kingdom.
Also Alan, have you heard of “Godwin’s Law” which theorizes that the more blog comments continue the greater the probability that someone will be called a “nazi”. I think this theory exists among Christians, except the word “nazi” is exchanged for “pharisee”.
No offence, but your comment section is a waste of God’s time because you cannot react fast enough to filter the good from the bad and service those who need direction. Instead, those who need answers now quickly fall away due to lack of response. If you cannot respond fast enough to those in need, or allow others who can, why even bother having comments? I tried to help someone, but waited days for approval sake. Your site never responded to their needs. That is a shame on your part and an embarrassment to God. I suggest that unless you are willing to take responsibility for God’s Word, you suspend your comment section.
We have let the comment section run for this reason: to alert people to the spiritual state of Jesus’ church. Like Brian Houston people don’t know the difference between Islam and Christianity.
This is more of a reflection of Christians who do not read their bible and who choose to be intellectually lazy. Rather than spout their own opinions, they could follow our advice and look up the expert views of Dr James White. It is not hard for them to even look up the difference of Christianity and Islam on wikipedia or look at the latest headlines on the latest Muslim group massacring Christians.
What we are seeing are rebellious Christians who are too lazy to care about what they believe. It is important to note that pastors, leaders and teachers are reading the comment section. How can this not motivate them to teach people how to distinguish the two?
Interesting website. I am sure the leaders of this website mean well, however dont entirely agree with what you’re doing. I have been part of Hillsong church for 10 years now and faithfully serve in prison ministries preaching the Gospel to see the lost saved. I work a full time job yet I preach for no financial benefit. If I am a bad example of what Hillsong church produces then your site is valid…but I will let you decide on this. God Bless, brother in Christ. Chris. PS. will be very interesting to see how long my post last here.
“and faithfully serve in prison ministries preaching the Gospel to see the lost saved. I work a full time job yet I preach for no financial benefit.”
That is wonderful news. We have no issue with Christians and Christian ministries.
yeah I noticed you did not publish a number of my responses especially my response to the one where you outright stated that Hillsong are NOT furthering the kingdom of God. Censoring now are you yeah why not state it again to Chris who IS PART of Hillsong that he is not furthering the Kingdom
Although I understand your points, my chief complaint was the slow response time, at least to posting my comment. I only happened on this article because of another site I frequent in my own “temperature gauge” of the End Times. Had I been just another misguided Christian or not one at all, I probably would have moved on before ever learning any substance of the truth, not just that someone had been accused of being a false teacher. There are passages in the Qu’ran that proves it is in error about who Jesus is and therefore that their god is a false one. I saw nothing of that in the article itself. I make this point as often as I can to those who falsely make this claim of the Muslim’s god being the same as our God. The problem for weak or non-Christians is that, without some substance of truth/proof being included, they just assume our complaints are empty jealousies. But I digress, this is your site, I was just passing through.
Not a huge Hillsong fan or anything, but if you’re a Jesus follower, why bother spending time looking for their errors? I think everyone has them that’s why we have to make sure that we stay true to the Word of God.
Wouldn’t it be better to focus on bringing people to Jesus and become a huge influence like these people have instead?
All the best
“if you’re a Jesus follower, why bother spending time looking for their errors”
If you’re a Jesus follower, what is wrong with following Jesus’ instruction to expose imposters in His church?
It was just that the first and foremost command that Jesus gave us – what was that again? To love eachother or am I mistaken? I’m sorry to say this but it seems like the people in charge of this webpage is hung up on the britterness and the pain the church may have caused you and that is unfortunate. That happens unfortunately everywhere where the is people.. And it is hurtbullar and I do not want to limit the pain you might have connecting to this church. I just found it funny that Paul talks about people that are even preaching for their own good (if that is what you say that they are doing) Fil 1:15- tells us that Paul is happy either way the gospel is being preached.. It makes Jesus known! And I mean that is generous right there! I Therefore thinking we should Celebrate and prat for the people that hillsong is actually reaching. I have seen many peoples lives changed and transformed by the grace of God through Hillsong church there is no way I can get away from that..I do agree that we need to face each other at times but that should always take place in a loving relationship and in ny opinion not on a webpage.. I have myself been away from the faith a couple year ago but God found me again and now I see him in different denominations and I’m trying to see the gold in every Christian I meet! I do not wanna be the one judging someone else and especielly a movement that really is giving an alternative church environment for young people! Why not bless each other instead at this time and be generous with believing that God can use us broken vessels and that that is the only thing he can use – If he can do that I believe that he can be (and is) using Hillsong church!
Luke 6:41 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brothers’ eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?”
God bless you! I hope you will find forgiveness and new hope so that all your dreams and his dreams will come through in your life!
“It was just that the first and foremost command that Jesus gave us – what was that again? To love eachother or am I mistaken?”
You are mistaken.
Hillsong apologist fails again. And Hillsong defenders wonder why sites like this exist.
“It was just that the first and foremost command that Jesus gave us – what was that again? To love eachother or am I mistaken?”
Dear Another Failed Hillsong Apologist,
You are mistaken. Matthew 22…
36 “Teacher, which command in the law is the greatest?” 37 He said to him, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the greatest and most important command.”
“or am I mistaken?”
I wouldn’t characterise it as a “mistake”, it’s more of an epic fail of the laugh-out-loud eyeball-rolling variety.
It’s individuals just like you that Paul had in mind when he wrote “I do not let women teach men or have authority over them”. Next time you have a question you should quietly ask your husband so that you don’t end up comprehensively embarrassing yourself in a public forum (unless, of course, you are trying to emulate Bobbie “Where’s my brain gone” Houston).
“I do agree that we need to face each other at times but that should always take place in a loving relationship”
And that’s why Jesus sent roses and chocolates to the Pharisees. Or am I “mistaken”?
I’ve read this, and more specifically ‘C3 Churchwatch’ for years. What I want is a clear, uninhibited declaration of who is behind this site. The gross sinful hypocrisy of this site is most distressing. It often causes me to stumble.
I don’t understand how fighting for the faith in Australia looks anonymous. There isn’t and has never been a good reason. I’ve attended bible based, Christ centred, reformed, evangelical churches my whole life, but have had a great deal to do with C3, and attended hillsong as a second church for some time.
Please church watcher, stop applying one rule to these teachers and not to yourself.
Who are you? What is your history with these churches? If you we’re hurt how? What is your name? What is your training?
Perhaps if someone does know who you are they could post it on here?
Many thanks,
David H
Dear David H,
The best thing about the internet is that you can expose false teachers without having to declare who you are.
The minute they put contact details is the minute Hillsong starts sending letters from lawyers.
These guys are smarter that that.
And this makes me happy. 🙂
“The gross sinful hypocrisy of this site is most distressing. It often causes me to stumble.”
Well stop reading it.
THANK YOU so much for making this site! I used to go to Hillsong about 6 years back and I’m so glad I got out. Hillsong is a dangerous cult and needs to be exposed. It’s about time Christians in this country stood up to the Hillsong cancer that is spreading heresy and producing false converts. Don’t let Brian Houston or any other Hillsong charlatan bully or intimidate you into silence. Keep up the good work!
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Thank you so much for this site. I was a blind follower of Brian and Bobbie Housten for four years, and now that the Lord has awakened me I realise how much of my “faith” was based on emotional manipulation. The Bible warns us against teachers that just tell us what we want to hear rather than Godly truth, and we must stay away from them.
I’ve been blogging about this for a while, you can check my most recent post here http://sarahcoppin.wordpress.com/2014/04/21/false-prophets-and-teachers/
Do you mind if I quote a few of your posts as long as I provide credit and sources
back to your site? My blog is in the exact same area of interest as yours and my users would really benefit from a
lot of the information you present here. Please let me know if this alright with you.
Many thanks!
The measure of a leader can be found by the number of enemies he has, the stronger the critics, stronger is the leader. I understand that this blog is to watch, observve, monitor- hillsong.. according to me this is an attempt by a spineless idiot. I would say, if Brian becomes more influential in the national media then there would these kind of spinless idiots in national media as well.. so its a natural process.. though i did nt find anything interesting, strong in this blog here.. 😦
“The measure of a leader can be found by the number of enemies he has, the stronger the critics, stronger is the leader.”
Did Jesus tell you that?
What are the heresies and false doctrine that Hillsong preach?
This Blog just sounds like it is written by some Ex member of HS staff that was sacked or removed from the Church because of his/her shortcomings or lack of commitment, Hillsong do so much more than many Churches globally, instead of putting on Lovely cake sales and having Bingo nights they choose to get out there, and actually help people out of Poverty worldwide, Freeing Human Slavery victims, Helping the homeless, the imprisoned and families who are struggling, over 3,000 salvations this year over London alone, so please don’t tell me that this church is from the enemy, and by creating this Blog and slating a Church is doing what for Christ Exactly?, We are meant to be one Body, Leave the judging to God……
Hate to break it to you, but it doesn’t seem like this blog is having any real effect on Hillsong. They keep on growing and pointing people to Jesus, while you sit at home behind on your computer and feel validated by the same 4-5 people commenting on every post. Might be time to move onto something more constructive.
He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'” Luke 10:27
Hey Troy, are you “tithing” faithfully? Did that please God so much that he has blessed you the way that Brian claims?
Hate to break it to you, Troy, but hillsong is a cult, and it isn’t having any effect on God’s Kingdom whatsoever. Might be time to move onto something more constructive.
Love God and Love People, your blog is not changing anyone’s life or bringing anyone closer to Jesus Christ. I go to Hillsong Church for the last 4-5 years. But I don’t worship Brian Houston, I worship JESUS CHRIST and Brian, Bobbie and the leaders at church have taught me to have a relationship with Jesus. They taught me what it means to be a Christian in my everyday life and what Jesus did for me at the cross. If there are any ‘evils’ going on in the church, I know and trust that my God will deal with them accordingly. But, no church is perfect, but this church is doing much more than going around hating on other churches like what you are doing. My question is, what are you doing to bring people closer to Jesus Christ? What are you doing with the gifts that God has bestowed in your life. If you are a writer, then why don’t you write about your testimony of how Christ has touched your life and write books to help people get closer to God rather than try break up Christ’s body? God has created you to be much more than a blog writer bringing down God’s church. Believe me, if Brian Houston was doing something evil, God will not allow it to flourish the way that it is flourishing and has been for THIRTY YEARS so they must be doing something right because it’s only God that brings people. When you lift up Jesus, HE alone brings the people. Brian Houston preaches the gospel and builds people up and it’s the people that he’s helped that build the church. Use your gift of writing to bring glory to God. I will put my real name on this blog because I am not ashamed of the church that God has blessed me with. Atelaite Moa-Kepu
What’s the gospel Atelaite? Love God and Love People?
You do realize that the scripture you use goes Romans 16:17 goes against your own blog because you are trying to divide the church. It’s Gods place to judge hillsong, I’ve seen them reach thousands of people for good. If you really don’t have anything else to do in your free time than to attack hillsong then God help you!
Zac – context please.
Romans 16:17-18 “I appeal to you brothers, watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.”
Why did you quote only part of the scriptures? You left out the second verse which is warning Christians about false teachers. See cross reference Matthew 7:15 warning about false prophets “who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves”.
Gosh the contents in this blog is so twisted!
Thanks for your comment, Daniel. Can you tell us where the mistakes are? It’s important that we get it right, just as it’s important that we compare what people are saying about the word of God, to the word of God.
2 Timothy 2;15 “Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.”
This is so weird! And completely pointless!
Thanks for visiting Nat – would you like to point out why it’s completely pointless to expose false teachers? Do you have a bible with a few pages missing?
Matthew 24:23-25 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. …”
.
“This is so weird! And completely pointless!”
You must be talking about Brian Houston’s inane ramblings, is that right?
John 17:20-
How the church needs this, focusing on the grace of the cross and God’s love for the lost and each other. I don’t agree with everything they do (I’ve never been part of Hillsong) but the ministry that God has laid on their hearts (worship, outreach and the teaching that I’ve heard) has to be one of the greatest ministries of the last twenty years. Let’s not drop the easy sweeping statement of being ‘false’ preachers, etc., I’m sure that the movement is humble enough to reply to emails/letters advising on any theological issues you disagree with, just like when your pastor says something you are not 100% with.
Yes it has it’s flaws, just like every other human being on the planet who doesn’t deserve even the crumbs falling from the Almighty’s table. But God created us, loves us, saved us from our sin and uses us for His kingdom, and that will look very different based on what He has put on each of our hearts. And guess what, you can’t see their hearts so there is only one Judge, and I don’t need to describe Who that is. Please devote this effort that I believe is genuine into proclaiming the cross more to this broken world and praying for Hillsong, (I believe) it will be far more beneficial. Love and blessings.
people receive Jesus, meet the warmth of the church and the gospel is preached.
was skeptical as I used to be from a more conservative church.
but Hillsong directs people to other churches, experience miracles and have critics because they use modern media etc.
but it is Mathew 6:33 – people are humble and use your website to tell about the blood of Christ and not persecuting the house of God.
“Hillsong […] have critics because they use modern media etc.”
You’ve got a real issue with comprehension, don’t you Peter?
Let me spell it out for you: hillsong have critics because they are run by liars, cheats, and frauds. Is that clear enough for you?
God is the judge.. Or is it you? 😉
You seem to have a lot to say about people you dont know..
Nicolina – you seem very sure that TF “doesn’t know” people. How do you know that?
Cheers, Team Churchwatch.
Hello Hillsongchurchwatch, I’m happy to visit this website and see how others think about the Hillsong movement. I’ve been in a Hillsong church in The Netherlands for a couple of years, 10 years ago. They pretended to be my only real friends and family, tried to make me dependent on them and dominate me. When I got sick at some point I decided to give myself some rest. I didn’t go to the church for a couple of weeks and I couldn’t give them money too. Then they told me I was demonized. If I didn’t come back soon they didn’t want me back. They said I would be like a rotten apple in a fruit basket and that they would decay because of me. I thought till then that they were my family and friends, but at that moment I realized they tricked me like an ordinary loverboy, like I had no life without them. It was very painfull but now I’m happy I had this insight. I hope other people will free themselves as well. Thanks.
Ps. The church I’m talking about is the City Life Church. There are more of them in The Netherlands. I was in the one in The Hague http://www.clcdenhaag.nl/
This is indeed very sad , I’m afraid it is not exclusive to the Hillsong church you refer to. there are plenty of churches like that I’m afraid. The good news is church is about people coming together in christ , you dont have to go to a established church you can meet up with people friends at home like they did in the new testament , you can test and discern. The litmus test to churches is this , when the stinky wino comes in do they give up their seats for him to sit or shuffle away disapprovingly ???
Also you can see right here the examples of the type of people that belittle , make fun of , insult anyone that dares to disagree with them. cant see much difference to what you experienced , by those who are running this site that simply don’t like it when people question their methods of exposing Hillsong for simple things like er PROOF , FACTS, FIGURES
“This is indeed very sad , I’m afraid it is not exclusive to the Hillsong church you refer to. there are plenty of churches like that I’m afraid.”
So your defence of hillsong’s reprehensible behaviour is that many other “churches” are also money-worshipping cultic shams run by lowlife scumbags?
Exactly which other “churches” did you have in mind, digi882? C3 and CHC, perhaps?
“Also you can see right here the examples of the type of people that belittle , make fun of , insult anyone that dares to disagree with them.”
If you are so thin-skinned that you can’t handle being told the truth, how are you ever going to handle true persecution?
And instead of whining about how acerbic the people here can be, how about showing us what a clever little hillsonger you are by penning some sharp ripostes? You can do that, can’t you? I mean, hillsongers are winners – they are the head and not the tail, they are just the duck’s guts of God’s Kingdom. They are ever so talented, anointed, gifted, clever, wealthy, successful, spiritual, discerning, erudite, and witty, aren’t they?
So go on, stop hiding your light under a bushel, and show us just how good you are digi882 – show us just how much you have benefited from Brian Houston’s “leadership” and “preaching” and “teaching”.
@Mariska
“They said I would be like a rotten apple in a fruit basket and that they would decay because of me…” Gee Mariska – they really gave you a hard time didn’t they?
It’s actually false prophets like Houston, Pringle and your former leaders, that produce rotten fruit Mariska, not nice people like you:
” 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.” (Matthew 7:16 – 20)
I do hope that you found a good solid church to go to after your Hillsong ordeal.
you might like to Google these two articles:
“How Pastors Get Rich” and “How Cults Work” and examine for yourself, their behaviour as compared to God’s work – I encourage you to do so…
It seems that all you post on this blog (fraud) is your own theology. Your page is a joke seeing you don’t even identify yourselfs. If you was genuine put a name and a church to your mis quotes and lies against a man of God. See as a Pentecostal we may disagree on points of the Bible, but I would NEVER talk ill of a Bapist minister. Remove the log from your own eye so you can help your brother remove the speck from his.
“[…] I would NEVER talk ill of a Bapist minister.”
That’s because you haven’t read your Bible yet, and so remain blissfully ignorant of the fact that God is no respecter of persons.
ok lol how do you know he hasnt read his bible. or was that supposed to be funny
I will say, do you have a normal day job, if so how much money do you make and what proportion of that money goes to yourself and your family. The point about muslims and God is semantics and then you get into the stumbling block of Christ , however Id ask you this does this apply to jews as well who to have rejected the messiah. There are several theologies that are debatable and we can argue endlessly , some churches major in some over others , me personally have no issues with a very rich church. The measure of all of us YOU included is how we treat others a rich church that does not help the poor is indeed the poorest church alive. That would be a valid criticism, but if the church uses marketing methods etc how is that different than what you yourself are doing , you after all are using the internet arent you. There is far to much hate gong on with christians these days i find that the easiest way to see if they are led by the spirit or not. Godly criticism would engage the very people you are criticising. I have been to Hillsong and have things i did not like v things i did like. This also depends on those who are running the churches as well. In the end faith in God is exactly that , if you believe in God you will trust him. He will lead you transform you turn you to Christ and perfect you. He wil not let anyone he knows get Lost there is no need for you to worry buddy. If churches preach prosperity they are in part correct, if it only ever preaches prosperity then it is skewed one sided, what i find interesting is the church is so divided , we are so comfortable bloated in our ivory castle. Church is about many theologies in symmetry working together NOT divided. What we need to honest is persecution that would focus our attention on Him and one another. Tell me this buddy what are you doing for those being slaughtered around the world , do you have a website i can see that shows this .. no you may ask hey why you hammering me about this well simple. Why not highlight the wrongs of many in this world not just focus on Hillsong ONLY that makes you the same as a church that only focuses on one part of theology. Finally i also measure how someone in Christ is by their willingness to changes , repent so if someone has give you good advice do you acknowledge or remain intransigent.
Oh and about Gays this also greatly concerns me the obsession with this one sin, what bot pornography that is affecting so many Christians, what we need to know is Christ has made us perfect therefore he will gradually change all of us with particular sin in our lies. Yess we all have sin in our lives but the power of some is greater than others and needs Gods targeted help. Wise Christians would not let gays be isolated they will share weaknesses in their lives then point out Gods Law on one hand Gods grace on the other and more importantly GODS TRANSFORMATION this takes a life time btw as we all need to be transformed DAILY!!!!!!!! Brother please take a back seat and ask what is your real intention, does it unify , does it heal , does it focus on many ills in churches and the wider world or just one. Peace and Love to you brother , seek the Lord daily for wisdom.
We are only approving this comment to simply point out this: if this rambling represents the state of the average Christian’s mind thanks to Hillsongitus, God help the churches of Australia.
Well for a start , I’m not in Australia NOR go to Hillsong, if i were to try to address your website , i indeed would need an even bigger site than yours.. So why not answer the question about MONEY.. you point out HILLSONGS obsession with money , so ill ask you a few direct question.
What do you do for a living?, how much of your money goes to help the poor ?
do you give a little or sell all your possessions and follow Christ?? Im 100% certain you will side step these set of questions.
I’m sorry i had to ramble you talked about so many things , I’m glad you posted my comments perhaps people reading this would be a bit more careful to swallow your rail of unsubstantiated accusations, why not provide proof of what you say, heck even if you managed to show the proportions of money earned and the breakdown of the spend by Hillsong. Maybe let us see your personal website and what you are doing to help the poor and other Christians who are in need.
Also i take it you work for a company, care to tells us the name so i can view its ethos and what it does in the global world.
Remember people be very careful and slow to judge , lest God judges you in the same manner you judge.
Im sure you would not like someone to set up a website and accuse you of all sorts without having the right to reply or respond. if you are truly mean well maybe you should try to engage Hillsong and let them answer your questions. One other thing having been a cult before there is one thing cults rely on more than anything else… FEAR it is used to control , and they will use emotional, psychological, spiritual and ultimately physical methods to control you. Hillsong well the ones i have been to twice that is in the UK were far from this. I hate to say though you anger has more in common with cults , this is evidenced by the tone of your site overall, the fact you can tell us for a certainty what Brian Houston personal belief is.
Apparently digi882 is not familiar with the concept of paragraphs (I wonder if anyone can read his entire post without pausing for breath).
“Church is about many theologies in symmetry working together NOT divided.”
Yeah, right.
I suppose there might be some verses in the Bible that back that up (I personally don’t know of any, but I bet that Brian Houston could point them out to us, given how anointed and wise and scripturally au fait he is).
“What do you do for a living?”
None of your business.
“[…] how much of your money goes to help the poor ?”
None of your business.
“[…] do you give a little or sell all your possessions and follow Christ??”
None of your business.
“Im [sic] 100% certain you will side step these set of questions.”
As though anyone here is answerable to you. Your sense of self-importance is inversely proportional to your grasp of reality.
Maybe if you give your money to Brian and Bobby Houston, God will heal you and remove that cloudiness from your brain. Or maybe Brian will just go and invest in some more properties or splash out on another Harley Davidson. (Preaching the Gospel is a really tough gig you know, but someone’s got to do it).
@ Digi882,
“Im sure you would not like someone to set up a website and accuse you of all sorts without having the right to reply or respond.”
I have seen regular posters ask, and even challenge, Brian Houston to come on board here to respond to various questions and concerns, though Brian Houston doesn’t appear eager to do so.
Also why would Brian Houston need you Digi882, or Thomas Lee, or Gordy, or anyone else to defend him?
Can he not defend himself?
Jim Styles
Brian Houston did comment on our website in regards to his Hillslam controversy. He is more than capable to comment.
@ churchwatcher,
I might have seen someone say Brian had come on here one time, though I never found the comment.
Anyway, I believed you would allow him to come on here to explain something, if he chose to speak up.
Thanks for confirming,
Jim Styles
After reading all your comments i have reached this conclusion, regrettably your tone is NOT one of kindness and love, you are not concerned really about those attending Hillsong , you pretend to be but i don’t think it is genuine. You major in snide comments making out those who disagree with you are stooges of Houston. This does not reflect someone who Loves Christ and his fellow brothers/sisters.
You think i have self importance muaahh ha ha i didn’t create this website did i lol you did. If you are concerned about those attending Hillsong be like John the Baptist a prophet who was brave and showed it, who criticised Herod publicly and highlighted the particular sin. he truly loved others before himself.
Why didnt you post my other responses to your comments, you are censoring my comments whilst leaving yours that is very very unfair and shows what kind of JUDGE you are , no wonder you are losing respect, you are manipulating peoples response to suit yours . TYPICAL
From what’s popped up, we’ve approved all your comments. We don’t approve comments straight away because some critics against us use very foul language.
@digi882 –
“who criticised Herod publicly and highlighted the particular sin. he truly loved others before himself”
Herod wasn’t threatening John the Baptist with mere lawsuits… and John was ready to give his life for what he believed in – that’s what set him apart…
Many have commented here using their real names so I don’t know what your real beef is – you’ve used at least two names so far – are they both fakes???
Pot calling the kettle black…whether you know it or not digi882, you are Houston’s stooge – unpaid and unappreciated, but I’m sure that Brian and Bobby are thinking of you as they board the plane for their next overseas ‘ministry tour’ – aren’t they…
“that is very very unfair and shows what kind of JUDGE you are , no wonder you are losing respect, you are manipulating peoples response to suit yours . TYPICAL”
But of course, the fake and phoney named poster, isn’t judging any of us at all???
Churchwatcher – I think you need to start up that ‘Goat’s Pen’ section for rude and grossly uninformed comments – TODAY…
I will say, do you have a normal day job, if so how much money do you make and what proportion of that money goes to yourself and your family. The point about muslims and God is semantics and then you get into the stumbling block of Christ , however Id ask you this does this apply to jews as well who to have rejected the messiah. There are several theologies that are debatable and we can argue endlessly , some churches major in some over others , me personally have no issues with a very rich church. The measure of all of us YOU included is how we treat others a rich church that does not help the poor is indeed the poorest church alive. That would be a valid criticism, but if the church uses marketing methods etc how is that different than what you yourself are doing , you after all are using the internet arent you. There is far to much hate gong on with christians these days i find that the easiest way to see if they are led by the spirit or not. Godly criticism would engage the very people you are criticising. I have been to Hillsong and have things i did not like v things i did like. This also depends on those who are running the churches as well. In the end faith in God is exactly that , if you believe in God you will trust him. He will lead you transform you turn you to Christ and perfect you. He wil not let anyone he knows get Lost there is no need for you to worry buddy. If churches preach prosperity they are in part correct, if it only ever preaches prosperity then it is skewed one sided, what i find interesting is the church is so divided , we are so comfortable bloated in our ivory castle. Church is about many theologies in symmetry working together NOT divided. What we need to honest is persecution that would focus our attention on Him and one another. Tell me this buddy what are you doing for those being slaughtered around the world , do you have a website i can see that shows this .. no you may ask hey why you hammering me about this well simple. Why not highlight the wrongs of many in this world not just focus on Hillsong ONLY that makes you the same as a church that only focuses on one part of theology. Finally i also measure how someone in Christ is by their willingness to changes , repent so if someone has give you good advice do you acknowledge or remain intransigent.
Oh and about Gays this also greatly concerns me the obsession with this one sin, what bot pornography that is affecting so many Christians, what we need to know is Christ has made us perfect therefore he will gradually change all of us with particular sin in our lies. Yess we all have sin in our lives but the power of some is greater than others and needs Gods targeted help. Wise Christians would not let gays be isolated they will share weaknesses in their lives then point out Gods Law on one hand Gods grace on the other and more importantly GODS TRANSFORMATION this takes a life time btw as we all need to be transformed DAILY!!!!!!!! Brother please take a back seat and ask what is your real intention, does it unify , does it heal , does it focus on many ills in churches and the wider world or just one. Peace and Love to you brother , seek the Lord daily for wisdom.
One other thing if Jesus Christ were her today or you were present when he was , would you have a site called Jesuschristwatch.com
Would you point out that fact that he has prostitutes/tax collectors in his presence heck even attended their houses and eat with them..
Would you point out that he works on the sabbath, claims to be the son of God.
Hmmm pause and think i say
I still would like to know if your so concerned why you hide behind a website and don’t put a name with it ? You lose all validity with me and most people by doing that. What are you afraid of ? that way we can examine you and your minions and compare it to Hillsong.
You are a bitter person, I don’t even think your a group.
My name is there, where is yours ?
Quite cowardly and your site as I stated before is a FRAUD.
I would love to hear back and know who I’m talking to.
Thomas
“You are a bitter person, […] Quite cowardly and your site as I stated before is a FRAUD.”
As you can see, you yourself are a good example of why we are anonymous. Now you can probably imagine what a church like Hillsong could do to our families and friends since they appear to have a heart and head conditioned like yours.
Buddy there are plenty of websites that expose many christian organisations that were partaking in dodgy doctrines, some have been sued , some have lost jobs but they had the bravery to stand firm. Again the problem here is the way you are going about it, so ill hazard a guess you probably were in Hillsong before (ok haven’t read all your site so forgive me if you stated already) and are known to them personally hence what you are well hiding so they dont identify you and sue you perhaps. I have no allegiance to Hillsong or any church for that matter, I rather go by the “if 2 are gathered” approach. Most established Churches today are if we are honest modelled after the Roman Catholic church or its sister Protestant church movement BOTH of which have their history BLOOD of the innocent on their hands. Does you church have a clear conscience ??? care to tell us what church it is ??
Im yet to find a Church in all the world that is modelled on the ACTS churches where they brought possessions in to distribute to those in need. Where they loved one another and carefully restored those who had fallen in sin, where they did not litigate their brothers and sisters, nor accuse them publicly without first trying their hardest to reconcile. Where they put the money they earned more in the community and less in financial institutions. Where they prayed and begged for forgiveness when they wronged people. Where above all things they LOVED first and foremost.
Thats what is wrong today , too many harsh judges itching to accuse one another harshly, willing to divide with no alternative options , no love , no mercy , no kindness..
Jesus said it plain BY THEIR FRUITS YOU WILL KNOW THEM.
PEACE
@digi882 – I suppose we should just forget about the following Bible verses then:
Matthew 18:15-20 – Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
2 Corinthians 2:5-11 – But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all.
Hebrews 10:26 – For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Titus 3:9-11 – But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
1 Corinthians 5:5 – To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
I think not – we can’t just “love” everybody, the way you would suggest. love in the NT sense of the word is self sacrificial – it gives more than it takes, but it does not ignore those who are living in known open sin, such as the man caught in incest, it does deal with personal sins in Matthew 18 and it rebukes erring elders in 1 Timothy 5:9 – 11.
Jesus Christ is our chief shepherd and He has made ample provision so that the sheep (as individuals) and flock (as the congregation) will not be lead astray by false prophets, heretics and schismatics.
I’m afraid that your kind of ‘love’ would never fly and would inevitably cause more harm than good. you seem to speak of an emotional feeling towards others, rather than a sacrificial commitment to God, His church and to His word.
“1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being examples to the flock.
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away… (1 Peter 5:1 – 4)
The apostle tells us that elders are to shepherd the flock…not for “filthy lucre’ (dirty money = tithe money,) so if money is the object (and it always is with the likes of the mega churches,) then you could conclude that the ‘elders’ are not true shepherds, because their motives are wrong.
“Please take a back seat…” why would we? Christ and His apostles have commanded us to expose error and to deal with sin, inside the church. It is not an optional extra – it is commanded. If you are in a church that does not do this, then I feel sorry for you! You will continue to be fleeced and deceived on a regular basis, with no Biblical checks and balances on what the leaders do or say.
I don’t believe that the majority of the people who post in here regularly are “pharisees’ – they are folks who simply honour the Lord and His word, and they have taken a stand against wrongdoing in the church – there is no sin in that… but if you neglect to tell people when there is danger, the Bible clearly states that their blood is on your hands… see Ezekiel 3:18+
Yeah well off course we should correct a brother who is wrong , BUT you telling me this is how you correct a brother ???? by posting on t’internet one sided and then insult those who may not agree with you and your methods wow…
really , and did you take a few elders when you were stonewalled ??
so here is the thing POST your beliefs here and the church you belong to then , hmm id be very interested to know what your church theology is.
Actually digi882 – i’m not here to spout ‘theology’ but rather to warn the ignorant and the innocent about how they have been deceived. I’ve had a lot of contact and involvement with people from the AOG/ACC over many decades, as well as the NAR and the house churches in more recent times, that have been caught up in various end time deceptions, which are currently in full swing, worldwide.
Matthew 18 is the passage used for correcting someone who has sinned against you in a private matter. 1 Timothy 5:17-19 is the scripture that commands us to publicly rebuke sinning elders/pastors/leaders – go read it – it says:
“…them that sin, rebuke before all, so that the rest may fear…” (1Tim 5:19)
Then there’s Titus 3:9 and 10 – how to deal with a heretic,not to mention Romans 16:17, 18 – how to deal with self delusional spin doctors, who are only interested in feathering their own nests.
i’m afraid that the Bible doesn’t make it any clearer than these scripture passages. We are doing what the Bible commands us to do – deal with these false prophet ministries, and expose them in the light of God’s word – and you have a problem with that???
Just thought you’d like to know folks, that the link to “Thomas Lee’ goes back to ‘deleted’ and no further:
http://deleted.com/
and the link to his Gravatar doesn’t exist either:
http://en.gravatar.com/profiles/no-such-user
So, why do you flee, Mr Thomas Lee?
Are you telling us that you exist, with a current blogsite/website and a valid Gravatar, when neither can be found?
Who are you, and where is YOUR credibility now Hmmm…?
I don’t know what Gravatar is, I have no website…..you can find me on Instagram @ pray_arizona
Another lie from the hate group
Thomas Lee
Actually no “Thomas Lee” – when I clicked on both your name and your Gravatar (the computer generated image beside your name,) that’s what happened – both links went to dead ends – and that is no lie.
This blog has had a number of people come by many times with fake IDs and images, and yours looks just like theirs – fake and phoney.
Why do you think that your opinion is more valid than that of others? Because you vehemently disagree with some of us? Or because you love promoting your own good works (as evidenced by your post shown below?
Yes, faith without works IS dead, but self promotion is a sin and calling others out as ‘haters’ when they are exposing false prophet ministries, doesn’t make you look good at all ‘Thomas’ – and i wish anyone luck in trying to contact you via your non existant web/blog site…
Hello Thomas,
Are you someone who needs more money? Is the reason why you are so angry that you have been faithfully “tithing” to Brian and Bobbie, but you haven’t seen the returns that they assured you would be be forthcoming?
We know that the truth hurts, Thomas, but please don’t blame this web site for pointing out that any funds you have given to hillsong might just as well have been flushed down the toilet – all you are doing is underwriting the lifestyles of vultures who masquerade as ministers. If you don’t believe that, try this little challenge: tell hillsong you want to establish the exact breakdown of how they spend your money, and that you would like to cast an eye over their books to that end. If they are genuine servants of God who have conducted themselves honourably, they won’t have anything to hide, will they?
I’m sure that the response you receive will be a real eye-opener. You be sure to come back here and let us know how things turn out for you.
HOW CAN YOU DISAGREE WITH TITHING IT IS BIBLICAL WHAT IS UP WITH THIS WEBSITE AND THEIR SLAMMING OF BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES.
We have another Hillsong apologetic expert engaging with us. Notice their respectful tone. Observe their theological depth. Marvel at their brain capacity.
Seriously folks. If you want to contend earnestly for the faith that was once and for all given to the Saints, why go to Hillsong? Their raspberry blowing theology converts no one.
“[…] WHAT IS UP WITH THIS WEBSITE AND THEIR SLAMMING OF BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES.”
Why are you shouting, James? It seems that you are even angrier than Thomas – I assume that you must be in the same position as he, whereby you have been faithfully “tithing” and it hasn’t worked out for you as advertised (what a surprise, eh?)
Did you notice that Thomas doesn’t appear to have taken up the challenge of endeavouring to get a look at hillsong’s books, James? Do you think that he tried, and got shown the door for his trouble? Or do you think that maybe he is too scared to broach the subject with any of the “leaders” at hillsong? (It must be *so* nice to have leaders before whom you have to bow and scrape, and who inspire such abject terror in the hearts of their faithful followers).
Anyway James, not to worry: since Thomas has gone missing in action, we’re going to hand the baton to you – you seem a worthy replacement, being so terribly gung ho and all. All you have to do is tell hillsong that you want to go through their accounts, and, when you’ve done that, come back here and let us know exactly how you’ve got on. I’m certain that the leaders will prove to be humble and solicitous, and, as good shepherds, will be unreservedly forthcoming in providing whatever information you request. After all, that would be entirely consistent with “Biblical principles”, wouldn’t it James?
As I said, you hide behind a joke of a website and have made assumptions that I tithe to Hillsong. It proves what I was saying….I live in Arizona number one, number two, I don’t belong to a Hillsong church. I am a real person with a real name with a valid opinion. Your so full of hate (being the watchdog for God) your blind. If you want to have a real conversation email me. We can discuss the Gospel in love and go from there. By the way…what is your belief system ? Share what you have done to further the kingdom ? rather than spew hate.
Thomas Lee
(Proud to put my name to my email)
Once again, you are valid proof that our decision to remain anonymous is wise. Do you speak like that to other people?
“I live in Arizona […]”
That could explain a lot – maybe the heat out there has fried your neurons.
“By the way…what is your belief system?”
“Belief system”? What are you, a scientologist? Belief systems are for fools and those in the sway of men (or worse).
“I am a real person […]”
Are you saying that this web site is run by fake people? Clones? Aliens? Holograms?
“[…] with a valid opinion.”
You overestimate yourself by a considerable margin, Thomas.
“If you want to have a real conversation email me.”
I can’t wait; you really do seem like a conversationalist par excellence. I’d bet my bottom dollar that you are a well-educated, widely-read, and thoroughly engaging individual (despite how your comments here come across).
“Share what you have done to further the kingdom.”
I assume that you’re keeping tabs on people so that you can give a report to God on the Day of Judgement, is that right?
Faith without works is dead, and my question on your belief system was based on your hate, I was wondering if you have received Jesus as your Lord and savior ?
Just trying to help……and FYI, I received Jesus as my savior 4/18/1978
You ?
Thomas Lee
“Your so full of hate (being the watchdog for God) your blind.”
@ Thomas Lee, did Paul hate Peter when he accused Peter of being a Judaizer?
Jim Styles
I’m not defending Hillsong as much as I showing what a joke the person who runs this site is. I do minister to the homeless, we have three services a week. I do tithe, and God has allways taken care of me. We had 170 people at our last outreach service, which we fed..shared the gospel and passed out groceries to all. We have a hotdog cart we take downtown Phoenix and pass out food, lead the lost to Christ, we put people thru drug rehab….all for no cost. Remember you WILL REAP what you sow, it’s a biblical principle that Jesus even spoke about.
Your just another disgruntled troll hiding behind a fake website. You must have a terrible boring life down under.
But there is always repentance for you my friend, because even though you hate..Jesus still loves you
Thomas Lee
“I do tithe […]”
And there it is.
The man is irate because those who hold to the true Gospel show him up to be someone who puts his trust in wood, hay, and stubble.
Here’s a heads-up for you, Thomas: in the Kingdom of God, works don’t cut any ice. Still, you’d have a soul-mate in Brian Houston if you reached out to him (Have you thought of sending him any cash? He could always use some more, you know.)
My my, another false assumption by Casper the friendly ghost.
Come on, man up and tell us what really happened to you ? we’re you on staff and got fired ? did you lose your job ? or are you just full of hate ?
Reasonable questions to the person who won’t identify themselves.
Thomas Lee
“Come on, man up and tell us what really happened to you ? we’re you on staff and got fired ? did you lose your job ? or are you just full of hate ?”
We will say this:
We saw the immoral nature of the C3 leadership at Oxford Falls and saw many people hurt by their deceitful practices. We saw them bully. We saw them act dishonestly. We saw the leadership and the people shun, slander and demonise the hurting.
Under this alias – some people write articles as outsiders, insiders, ex-staff, pastors, victims and visitors.
Actually, Thomas, most of us here have never worked for churches – we never were ignorant enough to work for the likes of Houston or Pringle, and the few that were, woke up to themselves when they saw manifold forms of abuse, error and downright lies in the midst.
I think you need to take a step or two back and look at the bigger picture Thomas – regardless of your ‘bona fides’, there are much bigger issues at stake than your belief system, good works, ‘valid opinion’ or anything else.
The truth of the matter is that Brian Houston and his entourage are in a position to influence tens of millions of people world wide and the folks who run this blog are attempting to warn the church, at large, about his blatant apostasy, money grubbing, false prophecy and bad treatment of his own woeful sheep…
These two blogs do not exist so that we can spread what you so wrongfully call “hate” but so that the innocent can be warned about Hillsong/C3 and their ungodly agendas and methodologies – to expose these false prophets so that the innocent will not suffer loss and grief, as many of them have in the past. Prevention is far better than cure…
I will treat you with the same respect you treat me. So far in my case you have stated 2 blatent lies. So your credibility is .000000 percent, so that is why you are a fraud….what is your name ?…and other than the hate you spew …..what is your beliefs ?….come visit my Instagram page and see what The Lord will do in people’s lives. You do NOT further the kingdom by your refusal to have an honest debate….the ball is in your court, but I know…..you will not. Why you ask ?…simple, your not interested in the truth, just hate
Thomas Lee
“So far in my case you have stated 2 blatent lies.”
They are?
To be fair – we are allowing you to comment like a two year old on our website. We are allowing you to be rude and demanding to us. If you think you are treating us with respect and love, you are kidding yourself.
Take your tantrums else where. If you read our articles, you will be able to determine what we believe.
If you want to accuse us of spreading hate and not truth – it would be wise to examine your own tone and at least read a number of our articles before coming to erring conclusions. What articles on our sites have you read?
“So your credibility is .000000 percent […]”
You do know about rounding, don’t you?
It seems that you’d be an excellent fit at hillsong; no doubt you’d be running with the intellectual crowd there.
“I will treat you with the same respect you treat me.”
Is that in accordance with what Jesus taught, or are you rather following the spirit that is at work in Brian Houston and hillsong?
(It’s wonderful to see that you’ve received such great value for money from hillsong college, by the way).
Quite a few, and as I said you have “Quote stated two blatent lies” I have not. You say you are a concerned group pastors, leaders and elders, right ? If you have nothing to fear then prove it. Who’s the two year old ? Your not even man (or woman) enough to do that ? and you expect credibility and respect, wow. I’ve been attacked by atheists with more credibility than that. You said I don’t exist….LIE….there is a thing called Instagram….you will find me there….second fallacy..I thithe to Hillsong…LIE…..if your not man enough to post the entire message…along with my site….pray_arizona on Instgram, I have to take you for your statements about me which makes you a liar, I don’t hate you, I just want to know what makes you hate so much ?
Thomas Lee
(A real person)
Just one more thing Thomas – it is ‘tithing’ that is the fallacy here – not where you ‘tithe’ but the very fact that you ‘tithe’ at all.
Here’s a link to a very good website, which explains why “tithing” is the fallacy – it is NOT a New Testament requirement, but was only implemented for the period of the Law:
http://www.tithingtruth.com
Wow, you really are full of hate and that I feel bad for you. All I can say at this point is to seek out God. If any man lacks wisdom, ask it of God. It’s in the book of James, but you already know that right ?
Take your time and help and try to further the kingdom, rather than tear it down
And the real person comment is due to the fact you won’t identify yourself, to me that’s extremely cowardly…even Hillsong will identify it’s self as I will, which you won’t
Thomas Lee
@pray_arizona on Instragram
And your comment on my brain being fried ? Who’s the two year old
You showed your true colors 👌
“And your comment on my brain being fried ? Who’s the two year old
You showed your true colors”
My apologies if I got that wrong, Thomas; I didn’t realise that your brain had actually been that way all along.
It’s almost comical seeing unravel as you have done. Is your interested in a adult conversation we can talk.
I am quite sane, but I fear for you and will pray for you.
We can agree on prayer right ?
Thomas Lee
“I am quite sane […]”
Well you should be talking to Brian Houston, not anyone here; that man needs all the help he can get. Plus, like you, he is right into religious bondages such as tithing and good works, and he also likes to trumpet his “righteous acts” before men so that he can get the glory, rather than God.
Anyway, I trust that if you pray, it will be according to all the tenets, strictures, rules and regulations of your “belief system”, and that you will take care to follow the correct processes and procedures – after all, prayer doesn’t work if you don’t follow the formula, does it? (In the same way that you can’t be blessed if you don’t tithe, which is something that Brian knows all about).
Maybe if you let Brian know how you’ve been acting as his unpaid lap dog, he’ll set you up with a hillsong franchise. I’m sure that since you’re such an ardent defender of his, you’d much rather minister to the hip than the homeless.
No I believe in the great commission and I don’t need to be on the dole to some one as yourself. You keep up your good work, im sure your reward will be waiting for you. And as for the question…..yes or no…are you saved…..do you know about Jesus?…or have a relationship with Him ?
Bedtime for me now, but I will wait on your answer
Thomas Lee
“And as for the question…..yes or no…are you saved…..do you know about Jesus?…or have a relationship with Him ?”
As I say, Brian Houston needs all the help he can get, so you should actually put that question to him.
Sadly, you won’t get much change out of Brian, because he’s already thrown in his lot with the enemies of God, and he seems fully determined to fly his life into the ground. The tragedy is that he is taking so many people with him, largely because of the ignorance that abounds these days, and which we see writ large in the uninformed and asinine comments of some on this web site from time to time.
Poor amused,
Quite a name…..once again another chance to clarify…have YOU (amused) accepted Jesus Christ as YOUR personal Lord and Savior ?
Is it such a scary question that you can’t answer ?
You have all the talking points, but refuse to answer the most important thing in your life….(if your saved)
Thomas Lee
Proud believer
Not ashamed of the Gospel
It’s funny when I have questions for you they disappear, or waiting for moderation.
I think you guys need moderated
Thanks for all your misled insights, any one with a brain can see through your and your site, how skewed it is to promote your theology, it’s a shame you can’t answer a simple question like salvation ?
Thomas Lee
@ Thomas Lee/paintarizona – “trolling” throws comments into moderation. Seems you have been recognized as a troll….
A simple question that you publicly refuse to answer….are you saved ?…have you asked Jesus Christ to be your Lord and Savior ?….and now I’m a troll ? The whole basis of your page is to promote your twisted theology (The Reformation Movement ) you hide that, you won’t answer the question because you don’t believe that anyone who calls on the name of The Lord can recieve salvation (just the chosen) no need to evangilise right ?
I will say this about Hillsong, they do reach people…something your not really interested in, but rather spread discord.
You guys are something else. I will continue to pray for your group, however many there are.
Be blessed, and once again I pray your not judged in the manner you have judged others. But you can still recieve Jesus is you seek Him with your whole heart.
Thomas Lee
Proud believer
Romans 8:38-39 “For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Rest assured, “Proud believer/Thomas Lee/paintarizona”, we know our eternal security is purchased by Christ, promised by the Father, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
And what is required of you Churchwatcher ? Is there free will involved ?…I ask you once again….Have you asked Jesus to be your Lord and Savior ? You surely must believe that you must confess Him publicly ? Your like a riddler….I ask you a question…you answer with a question..to deflect an answer. I know Romans as well, for instance Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. NASB
Now try hard (if you even post this) to answer the question without asking a question, please please answer and post your answer. Also do you believe salvation is available to all ? as stated in Titus 2:11 For the Grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men. NASB
Why don’t you have scriptures like that for the very people you claim to be defending ? News flash for you my friend, God will not be mocked. Galaitions 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. vs:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
If your truly saved and are in fact a believer you should concentrate more on the Great Commision and make disciple of all nations Matthew 28:19-20
If you want to do work for the kingdom of God, that’s a start.
I eagerly await your response to ALL my questions because they are all valid. God does not need you to be his bodyguard but rather a simple servant.
Thomas Lee
Proud believer
Saved 04/18/978
Thomas Lee – It seems that you have an reason for wanting to validate Hillsong.
http://instagram.com/p/nrrrP7s7uV/?modal=true
Your rejection of all things “reformed” flies in the face of Hillsong’s keynote speaker for their 2015 Hillsong Conference.
Mark Driscoll (certainly under condemnation at the moment), is a Reformed 5 point Calvinist. Perhaps you should re-direct your angst to them?
“Your [sic] like a riddler….I ask you a question…you answer with a question […]”
‘One day as [Jesus] was teaching the people in the temple courts and preaching the gospel, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, together with the elders, came up to him. “Tell us by what authority you are doing these things,” they said. “Who gave you this authority?” He replied, “I will also ask you a question. Tell me, John’s baptism–was it from heaven, or from men?” They discussed it among themselves and said, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will ask, ‘Why didn’t you believe him?’ But if we say, ‘From men,’ all the people will stone us, because they are persuaded that John was a prophet.” So they answered, “We don’t know where it was from.” Jesus said, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.”‘
So I guess the chief priests and the teachers of the law thought that Jesus was a riddler too – which is rather apt, because those legalistic money-lovers were the forerunners of today’s false teachers such as Brian Houston.
Do you know what happens if you follow a blind guide, Thomas?
So, you consider yourself as Jesus and talk in Parables ? Please receive Him in your heart. See if you had asked me that question, I am able to reply….why can’t you ? You must be born again, not by your theology but by repenting of your sins and asking Jesus in your heart…He is standing at the door knocking
Thomas Lee
You still haven’t answered my question, nor have you posted my comment.
You are a sad person and I do feel bad for you. It’s people like you that drive people away from Christ.
You have yet to answer a question but cherry pick what I say, post that then run your talking points, have you any shame ?
If you choose not to post it, that’s up to you. If you choose to reject Christ, that’s up to you as well.
But remember this even if it don’t fit your theology…..judgement day will come and you will be held accountable for everything you do to tear down the kingdom
You can fool people, but you won’t fool God. The fact that you don’t even reconize that is proof of your unbelief.
Repent while there is time
Thomas Lee
I would be quite happy to send you a copy of that workbook. In it you will find nothing but Bible scriptures.
The controversy is in your narrow mind, I choose to have an open mind.
Now that you have posted that maybe people can read my posts (that you denied I was real) and see what serving The Lord is all about 🙂
Thomas Lee
What I do find amusing is the fact of how you photoshopped the pictures on my Instragram account around. You cherry picked them as you have my posts, but the fact is any who clicks on my name will SEE all the posts you left out to arrange them to suit you, how silly. In your rage you forgot that one little thing….thank you for validating yourself for what you really are !
Thomas Lee
Pray_arizona @instragram
Guess what…..it’s real like me!
If this gets posted I would ask all to see the work that being done
Praise His Mighty Name !
Only one picture – and that particular picture was just to make others aware as to why you are speaking up for Hillsong. Which makes one wonder as to why you’re so rabidly anti-Reformed when Hillsong is having (Reformed 5 point Calvinist) Mark Driscoll as key-note speaker at their 2015 Hillsong Conference.
One picture, one site, the truth.
Thanks for your help 🙂
Thomas Lee
PS I invite all to check it out and see what God has done in my life
Praise His Mighty Name !
And no response about Mark Driscoll.
“PS I invite all to check it out and see what God has done in my life”
@thomas lee, congratulations on passing your first year.
miracles are at work in your life.
help us out here, someone else might be interested in getting a certificate like you.
while you “weren’t tithing to hillsong”, how much have you “not spend” on hillsong collegeworx courses?
“One more week to go before graduation, it’s been one of the most rewarding years of my life, now have to get ready for year two.”
Click to access paymentoptionsform.pdf
$580.00 U.S. Dollars……not sure where your form is from but defiantly not U.S……sorry to burst your bubble of hate once again
Thomas Lee
thomas,
Is that $580 per semester, or $580 per 1 year, or $580 per 2 years?
Once again, you refuse to answer the question.
But when your chosen you have no need for salvation…..? Right…..?
I would ask you again if your saved but not one of you can answer. That is what’s so alarming about you guys, no salvation….and tearing down ministries.
Bravo !!!!!!!!!
But the funny thing is, no one from Hillsong cares what you think, maybe that was the reason you was fired…..your denial of Christ..?
Ask The Lord in your heart, and repent
while you can. And try to bring hope to a lost dying world.
Thomas Lee
Per year
Thomas Lee
$580 per year? That’s a bargain!
Do they teach you how to take up an offering? How to bully and manipulate people into “tithing”? If so, the course would pay for itself in no time at all.
“I would be quite happy to send you a copy of that workbook. In it you will find nothing but Bible scriptures.”
thomas lee, we each have our own book with scriptures too, even more scriptures than your workbook, it’s called the Bible.
i paid $40 for my KJV. $20 for my NIV.
everyone here is born-again, but nobody else got fooled into paying $1060 except you.
your level of enthusiasm is commendable, but your lack of discernment is not.
no tithe necessary, and you still got rooked by the hillsong money-making BEAST.
“The controversy is in your narrow mind, I choose to have an open mind.”
many you’re arguing with here, were into it waaaayyyy more than you.
as the saying goes, the people youre arguing with…… been there, done that.
And in sure my bible is older than you are. What year did you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior ?
I did in 1978
And if you go to church (I hope you do)
did someone give you the building ? do you have a outreach program ? do you have a drug rehab program ? if you do…..who pays for it ? Your argument is to pointless it’s almost comical.
Maybe you live off the land ? or maybe you work for free ?
You guys are funny 🙂
Thomas Lee
Seriously Thomas Lee, this is becoming “all about you”. It’s time to stop feeding this troll everyone. He’s becoming an embarrassing representative of Hillsong.
My ‘born again’ birthday – 22nd of August 1978…
Well congratulations, finally a believer that will confess it. Thank you 🙂
Do you feel that is available to all mankind ?
Thomas Lee
I am not a Calvinist, but I have discussed the pros and cons of Reformed doctrine many times – sometimes here on the blog, via email, and even on the phone.
My friends and i may not see eye to eye on everything, but we are in regular contact through those means.
i do believe that we have choices t make in this life and that embracing salvation through Jesus Christ is the biggest one we’ll ever make. We do not contend over these issues, as these thing are rarely an issue for us.
Even Peter found some of Paul’s writings (scripture,) to be hard to understand and accept – and they were apostles in the Early church!!!
So it comes as no real surprise that folks in the End-time church may not always understand or agree with each other’s take on certain things.
And NO – I am not stupid enough to answer a question posed by you, that may result in schism/division on this blog – nice try – but that’s not why I’m here…”
What is absolutely degenerate in heart, mind and soul is your continual implication that critics aren’t Christian. This is the typical wickedness institutions like Hillsong brainwash people into believing. You can’t have a Godly critic.
Face it Thomas – you didn’t come on hear to outreach or engage in discussion. We have the audacity to question the frauds you love and you hate us for it. You have not engaged in honest discussion at all. Truth has not been on your side in engaging with people.
It’s becoming apparent that ignorant Christians like yourself show high intolerance of Christians who faithfully study God’s Word and attempt to discern the times. This is both a faithless and loveless substance towards your God and neighbour whom you say you love.
You need to repent and return to the Word of God.
In saying this, to those engaging with Thomas, if he is stirring you up emotionally, don’t engage with his immature conversations. If this is the maturity level of Hillsong’s defenders, relax.
Been there and done that ? That being what ? I have point blank on about ten comments if you believe 1. Is salvation available to all 2. If you have personally asked Jesus to be your Lord and Savior. 3. What denomation you are. None of these questions have been answered, which leads me to believe what your agenda really is. Also I see you promote several books at the bottom of your page, guess what…(There not free)
My money I spend is mainly to further the Gospel, to help those that are in need. You should give it a try John John
Or do you believe the Word of God is just a history book ?
As I told the rest of your crew, I am a beliver, I believe salvation is available to ALL who repent and call on the name of The Lord and confess with their mouth (public) will be saved.
But when your (The Chosen) you have no agenda for the lost……right ?
C’mon man up, tell us what you really believe !
I publicly confess Jesus Christ, who was born or a virgin, died on the cross for my sins and on the third day was resurrected and sits at the right hand of the Father interceding for me at this very moment.
Have YOU (John John) had that experience ?
Thomas Lee
“And in sure my bible is older than you are. What year did you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior ? I did in 1978”
JT: 1975.
“I do minister to the homeless, we have three services a week. I do tithe…. We had 170 people at our last outreach service, which we fed…. My money I spend is mainly to further the Gospel, to help those that are in need. You should give it a try John John”
JT: Read matthew 23:12 and matthew 6:5. And keep talking. You just got your reward.
My answer to you is right there, how ironic….Matthew 23:13 ” But woe ti you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselfs, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. NASB
Not to mention Galatians 6:9 / Psalm 96:3 1Corinthians 11:1-2 / Ephesians 5:1-6-24 /
And a few for you,
Romans 1:16 / John 12:48 / John 14:6 / John 3:36
When you use the Word of God.. Use proper exegesis and hermeneutics
I don’t brag about what I do, nor do I expect a reward, I just have compassion for the lost.
Just trying to give you insight on what a true disciple is called to do
Waiting moderation (I’m sure)
Thomas Lee
P.S. You would be more help to advance Gods kingdom by trying to help, not hinder.
God doesn’t need people like you and your page tearing (trying to) down the kingdom.
And we all will stand in judgement.
One more for you my friend, Matthew 28:19-20
Do you visit other websites to present your Christian Curriculum Vitae or just ones that disagree with your favourite preachers, theological position/s etc?
If you want to keep commenting, stop lying to us and treating people here like idiots. You are more than welcome to comment here. However, we do not encourage your level of inconsistency and dishonesty. You have bragged about what you and used your standards of works to condemn us. That’s generally an indicator (like most of the C3 and Hillsong defenders) that your standard of truth and holiness is not the bible but on your works.
A tag team of people that answer bible based questions that continue their “railing false accusations” against me. I ask questions that your not comfortable to answer…and it’s all about me ?
News flash…it’s not about me..it’s not about Hillsong….it’s about you !
You created this hate site and don’t feel people should respond ?
C’mon guys, surely you can do better than that.
I’ve ask you (several times) about bible truths that you WILL not answer….(and not post)
Your so blinded by your hate and animosity you can’t see the trees through the forest.
Your hate group deserves better than that, answer all the questions I have asked you. I challenge you for your group to do so. I fear for you guys, but I will continue to pray for you, because prayer works !
Thomas Lee
Mark Driscoll? Calvinist? Reformed? Speaking at 2015 Hillsong Conference?
And this “tag-team” is composed of Pentecostals, Charismatics and Calvinists. Interesting how we all get along – could it be because we all recognize and hate false doctrine/teachers when we see them?
i can confirm that Churchwatcher – having talked with many of them online and some via email – some of my best friends are Reformed brethren and I am a classical Pentecostal (not part of the current “false profit” movement…)
The thing that sets us apart from you Thomas, is not correct theology – it is the fact that we all love Jesus and each other, do not depend on our ‘works’ for salvation, are not here to blow our own trumpets and will pull no punches when it comes to the ‘false profit’ gang, regardless of who’s “brand name’ is over their front door.
God is no respecter of persons, and neither are we.
i too am not Reformed but i do read mike ratliff’s and other Reformed blogs. i have utmost respect for my Reformed brethren, even noticed the majority of discernment websites i end up on are run by them, another example.. matt slick’s.
nfg
@ No false gods – Matt Slick (our dear charismatic, non-cessationist 5 point Calvinist brother) is on my daily download of podcasts, and Mike Ratliff is a Facebook friend whose articles I read regularly.
“You created this hate site and don’t feel people should respond?”
… ?
Well since I don’t attend a Hillsong Church, nor do attend their conferences I would not have an opinion. I do know that one of his mentors was none other than John MacArthur.
Concentrate on leading the lost to Christ is my advice to your group.
I’ve seen bully’s for way to long, and that what your doing, but bullying in a cowardly way. If you have a beef with Hillsong or Houston, talk to them about it.
What your doing is never going to change anything.
And if I remember MacArthur is one of the authors you advertise on your (blog)
I’m sure you don’t get paid for that..right ?
And still no answers to any of my questions…DODGE……lol
You guys are a hoot !
Thomas Lee
@paintarizona – “What your doing is never going to change anything”
Actually Thomas – it has changed everything in the last few years. If the ‘churchwatcher’ websites were having no effect, then:
1. hundreds (if not thousands) of former members wouldn’t have left,
2. various scams and scandals would have not been exposed (some of which have already hit the local media,) financial fraud, pedophiles in the ministry, housing scams, and “pastors’ going to jail for these crimes and more – you know nothing of these matters, so you might want to do some homework before you come back spruiking your own “good works”…
3. Brian Houston and Phil Pringle would not be asking ‘youtube’ to shut them down (which they did recently)
4. nor would there be dozens of pumped and primed trolls, coming to the board each month, saying the same old script that you’ve been babbling from this last week.
“Never going to change anything…”?
Well as you bask in YOUR good works I will burst your bubble.
No you have to approach people with love. If you don’t agree with them, pray for them. Quite a concept !
So as a group to say the least in love, your cowardly. And I say that because if you believe in the bible, God will have the final say.
So while you guys (well hidden) and private pat each other on the back, Hillsong builds another church.
That’s why what you do is pointless.
Why not expose ALL false teachers and false doctrines ? There are bigger fish to fry than Hillsong
Thomas Lee
“So while you guys (well hidden) and private pat each other on the back, Hillsong builds another church.”
Building another building + audience or building another *church*? Note verses 11-14 especially. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%203&version=KJV
Have you ever compared the speeches that Houston gives to what the apostles preached?
Can you give the chapter and verse where the apostle Paul preaches about personal destiny, purpose and “life-change”? OR
Can you give us a link to a sermon where Houston preaches about sin, repentance and/ or Hell for those who refuse to make Jesus Christ their LORD as well as Saviour?
“Hillsong builds another church….” – no – they build another building and nothing more, then they fill it up with gullible people who pay for that building – and the opulent lifestyle of its ‘pastors’ – that’s what Hillsong builds… and nothing more
It is Christ who builds His church:
“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16:18)
So if Hillsong ‘builds another “church” ‘ as you say, is it them of Jesus Christ who builds the church (the people) or is it just another ‘cut and polished stone’ in the Hillsong pyramid scheme???
Hillsongers – if you’re out there listening, it’s time to leave ‘Babylon’ behind:
“4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues”.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled, fill to her double.” (Rev 18:4,5,6)
So Thomas – it looks like ‘double or nothing’ for Hillsong – yes?
“I’ve seen bully’s for way to long,”
Odd that you defend them.
“If you have a beef with Hillsong or Houston, talk to them about it.”
This is why this site exists. These totalitarian movements refuse their members or the victims the biblical road to deal with error. Just like the JW and Mormon cults, Hillsong gives the outward impression that they are founded on Christ and His Word but keep trying to convince to the rest of Christianity that they are the real church.
But even Brian Houston has publicly stated that the Hillsong Church is founded on the people. This is why he doesn’t flinch when he twists the scriptures and this is why members can’t express their concern about Houston’s teachings: He doesn’t serve God’s Word, God’s Word serves him.
Don’t believe us? Listen to a sermon of his and test what he says with an open bible. Tell us what sermon you listened to. Tell us what you liked and disliked about it.
Man, with the amount of advertising you do for your sponsers you guys must have quite a cash cow
The very thing your against, asking for money…WOW….I’m shocked !
Really I’m not, people can see through like a glass window even though you hide behind a computer screen
Keep up the good work guys, I’m sure you will lead multitudes to Christ through your (blog)
On second thought all kidding aside I seriously doubt that will happen.
But there are men of God (and women) that will do the job
Thomas Lee
I have no problems with people financially supporting valid ministries – it’s not the ‘asking for money’ that is at issue – it is ‘tithing’ – putting God’s people under a legally binding obligation to give beyond their means (26% per month is about the same as a monthly housing payment for most Aussies,)
Hillsong’s leaders and others like them are tantamount to being ‘Christian crooks’ and nothing more – they love money more than God, because they speak of money more than God – it really is that simple Thomas.
“The love of money is the root of all evil…” (1 Timothy 6:10a)
So please don’t tell me that these “false profits” are the ‘good guys’ – they are not…
Well things are different down under, I have NEVER attended a church in the USA that (requires) it’s members to tithe 26% or any other amount. I do agree with your scripture about the (love) of money.
The only church I’m aware of here that tithing is required is the LDS church
(By the way) we don’t ask tithes or even offerings of anyone
Thomas Lee
Auztin, Do you attend a Hillsong Church? Can you please verify that “they speak of money more than God”? Would be great to see some figures, graphs or something to support that. Thanks!
@Troy – “Would be great to see some figures, graphs or something to support that. Thanks!”
Or perhaps you could view some video footage of their last few ‘conferences’, or just about any Sunday service… 🙂
Hillsong have over the years downplayed the notions of God wants you to be prosperous due to the growing criticism of this teaching.
However, thanks to Rick Warren, they have simply refined their prosperity gospel to the purpose driven gospel. Essentially they are one and the same just repackaged with different terminology and with more emphasis on the deeper carnal things than just money.
Still Austin is right that the emphasis is not on God. The emphasis is on you, your purpose, your well being and your success.
I have actually attended NAR/Pentecostal ‘churches’ where the ‘tithing sermon” was as long as, if not longer than the actual sermon itself, and of course in the case of Hillsong, that would be about right, as Brian’s sermons are not any more than 20 minutes long nowadays, as many have testified to, on this blog and on others…
@Troy – the other thing you could do is ask Brian and Bobbie, if you can look at the books and determine for yourself just how much money they get in each week, and compare that (if you can) to that 20 minute ‘anointed’ message from Brian. $60+ millions of dollars in one year, as compared to no real converts, just “churchgoers” – maybe that’s all you will need to see… tares amongst the wheat don’t count Troy…
But you and I both know that’s never going to happen, don’t we, Troy??? You will NEVER get to see the financial records of Hillsong or any other Mammon based cult on this side of eternity, but if you wanted to know where their 2 and 3 story beachside mansions and new motorbikes come from, i’d say there’s be one column somewhere in those books that addresses that.
And if you can’t accept any of the above, then just ask yourself Troy – why did Brian Houston write a book called “You Need More Money”? Why didn’t he write a book called “You Need More of God”???
‘Can you please verify that “they speak of money more than God”?’
So Troy, are you denying that Brian Houston wrote a book entitled “You Need More Money”?
Could you tell us who said this:
“For out of the abundance of the heart [a man’s] mouth speaks.”
Or haven’t you read your Bible?
No, I don’t attend a Hillsong church my church is quite small.
I do however preach the gospel and am a firm believer in the great commission as in Matthew 28:19-20
That’s my call in life, I don’t like ANY mega church, but there is truth to be found if your willing to look.
My group is a buch of ragtag misfit people (the kind Jesus ministered to)
Hope that clears things up
Thomas Lee
What is the gospel Thomas?
Thomas Lee – I haven’t gone back through all the comments but it seems to me that no one has accused you of not being saved, we have asked questions politely (at least I have). And you haven’t answered my question about Mark Driscoll.
This site is moderated by at least four “churchwatchers’ of various church backgrounds. The common denominator is we are all ‘refugees’ from Hillsong, C3 or other seeker/dumbed-down gospel churches. Our anonymity is important as many of us have family still caught up in cult-like churches, and considering the treatment we received for daring to speak out for the whole counsel of God to be preached with integrity, those family members still there may come under ‘judgment’ by their leaders. And of course we pray the Lord will deliver them out of ‘bondage’ too.
Shunning, a word I’m sure you’re familiar with if you see how the Amish in the States, treat those who leave their sect, is a common problem for those who, because they love God’s Word more than their vision-casting hirelings, are also treated in like manner.
These churches are able to continue for at least two reasons – God’s judgment, and the fulfillment of the following scripture:
2 Timothy 4:2-4 “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.”
You people that run this site I notice are being continually criticised and in some cases attacked now that i have mustered up the courage to even appear here let me comment. I am a pentecostal insider but never been a member of either Hillsong or a c3 church just saying that up front but I am familiar with both.
Those running this site are obviously from various backgrounds some are most likely pastors and or leaders. Now at this stage i personally don’t share some of the more out their negative comments but please don’t critise me for this.
But the churches and leaders they are talking about have such power and authority in this country that if they so desire and it does not have to be them personally but some well meaning underling they can virtually destroy those involved and perhaps any friends or relatives they may have in these churches especially if they are in leadership or on staff.
Now this should not be but it is so. Also many attendees of some of these churches see any negative or criticism as an attack virtually against God himself. Of course most are i trust doing this in ignorance so forgive them. I am talking about the average attendee.
I myself am small fry in all this and as I said have had to muster up courage to even make several posts here.
So for those pleading for the identity of the organisers, and I should make it clear I am not one of these, stop it.
The gospel is the teaching, or revelation of Christ.
But you should know that, why ask me ?
Thomas Lee
Is your gospel the same ?
The gospel summed up in four verses, Thomas:
1 Cor. 15:1-4 “Now I make known to you brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures . . . “
And the use of the term I will quote “lowlife scumbags” is on your approved language list ?
I find that appalling, coming from so called pastors and teachers.
You need to censor your own comments
“I find [lowlife scumbags] appalling […]”
Would you prefer “whitewashed wall”, perhaps? How about “brood of vipers”? No? Maybe “[They] belong to [their] father, the devil” or “ignorant and unstable people”?
For someone who claims to be red-hot for God, you don’t know very much about Scripture, do you?
Why don’t you go away and do a bit of reading, Thomas, and come back here when you are in a position to make an informed contribution. (I expect if you take my advice that we won’t hear from you for quite a while, because it’s clear that you’ve got a *lot* of ground to cover).
And one last thing before I leave for church. In regards to all the scandals among the body, it’s nothing new. I hope your not shocked that all have not attained the perfection you have. For all have sinned, and fell short of the Glory of God.
Perfect came and was crucified..for people like me and you, and yes even….Houston, Driscoll, Hinn, Myers, MacArthur…..shall I go on ? All means all no matter how you look at it. And until Christ returns, sin will abound. Flip side is where sun runs deep, His grace is more.
Thomas Lee
“In regards to all the scandals among the body, it’s nothing new.”
So your excuse for hillsong’s disgraceful conduct is “Everybody else is doing it”?
Tell me, did you ever try that when you went to preschool? Did it work back then? Do you think it will work when you trot it out at the judgement seat of Christ?
If you are this ignorant after having attended hillsong bibul skool, I hate to think how daft you must have been before. I imagine that the truth is you probably peaked academically when you mastered finger painting.
No need to ‘go on’ Thomas – here’s a link to the joyce myer empire and its riches:
http://apostasywatch.com.previewyoursite.com/teaching5/page8.html
and that’s just ONE of the false prophets named by you in your post…
Imagine what you could have done in terms of feeding/housing the poor if poor old Joyce had just simply sold all that she had and went and truly followed Jesus…
That’s a really nice private jet Joyce has got.
Phil Pringle, close friend of Brian Houston, has said that he would like his own jet (I think he feels a bit left out; a bit of an also-ran in the mega-rich mega-church stakes).
So what Thomas says is quite true: it’s nothing new. They’re all birds of a feather: every man and his dog who can twist the Bible to turn a dollar – and who isn’t bothered by the thought of getting judged by God – is out there making merchandise of the Gospel.
So tell us Thomas: are you hoping to strike it rich as a heretical hireling, or are you happy to simply underwrite and talk up the lifestyles of the Brian Houstons of this world?
@ Thomas, “In regards to all the scandals among the body, it’s nothing new.”
Well here’s the scandal that’s NOT business-as-usual. That “Great falling away” which will deceive many people.
Stop being selfish. You are not the only person in the Body of Christ. There are many body parts in the Body of Christ.
You don’t feel it’s your responsibility to warn the flock, but many here feel it is a responsibility / ministry which the Lord has given them.
Who are you to tell them otherwise?
Hey guys,
Thanks for all your insight. As a believer (as all of you are) I feel my comments really don’t belong on your blog, Bolger as for you my friend carry on with your work that your called to do. As for Hillsong and other churches that are not preaching the gospel, and leading the lost to Christ will be judged by their fruit. If they don’t bear fruit they will be cursed and wither away and bear no fruit. You and Auztin seem to be the only civil people on the site. I have been called names, lied about and slandered by them. Thank you both for being civil, I am not a glory seeker as they have stated, just a simple servant of Christ. I will continue to do my best to reach the lost with the love that has been extended to me by the shedding of my saviors blood on Calvary.
I hope you can do as well in Australia
God bless
Thomas Lee
@ Thomas, thank you.
God bless,
Bolger
“You don’t feel it’s your responsibility to warn the flock, but many here feel it is a responsibility / ministry which the Lord has given them.”
Half-truth – 2 Corinthians 2:14 sums up how this ministry started. We really didn’t want too.
“But thanks be to God, who always leads us as captives in Christ’s triumphal procession and uses us to spread the aroma of the knowledge of him everywhere.”
We had no intention of starting these online sites. We too used to think that this was not the “Christian” thing to do. But because we are made captive to his Word, he’s dragged us into this. And now, “thanks be to God,” he is using what he’s started to outreach and help hundreds of Christians. People are literally being pulled out of these false churches and are grateful for what we do.
There are false Christians who smell a stench of death to what we do. We have only done our best to be obedient and faithful to Christ, His Word and his saving gospel message.
And we will accept the fact that we’ve tripped up a bit. But as people may notice, we are open to scrutiny and encourage correction from many people.
The problem is people who attend Word of Faith cults like Hillsong and C3 are discouraged to think critically of their churches but think they are critically entitled to bash anyone who raises genuine criticisms of their churches. Because they do not know how to engage critically on issues – they usually fail to offer biblical correction on anything substantive.
We are definitely open to it, but good luck being corrected by someone who is told not to engage in critical thought.
Of course, we wouldn’t want Kenneth Copeland to feel left out, so here’s a link to a blog written by Rich Vermillion – a man who was involved in KCM right at the top for years – and then saw it all:
http://kennethcopelandblog.com/
Of course, Rich and his wife were not ‘fired’ for underperformance – they simply saw through the Copeland’s false doctrine and deception, and left, along with many others…
They were/are not bitter, but they have done a marvellous job of exposing sin in the Copeland camp, and calling on the ministry leaders to repent…
Good call Austin. I’m bookmarking your link.
Typo
Sun=sin
Hey Churchwatcher,
I’m fine and I’m not angry. The angry group is you guys, really. There is nothing I would ever be able to tell you, because you know it all 😦
And based on your responses to other messages, there is so much hate it’s revolting.
So continue on with your (blog)
But keep in mind that Jesus is the author and finisher of my faith
Be blessed,
Thomas Lee
Paintarizona, time for you to stop all these ad hominem attacks* and think objectively.
Is Hill$ong’s message the Gospel message – YES or NO? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+15%3A1-8&version=KJV
What saves a person – faith in SELF/ keeping the law or faith in CHRIST/ trusting in God’s grace? Romans 3:19-26, Ephesians 2:4-10
Will believing the right Gospel determine a person’s eternal destiny – YES or NO? Galatians 1:8-9
Are Christians expected to warn others in error- YES or NO? James 5:19-20
Are you following that above command – YES or NO?
* a doctrinal “Godwin’s Law”- the weaker the argument/the higher the chance of:
1. “you’re just jealous / a hater/ judgemental/ not with the times….”
2. “what about the results/ statistics?”
3.”it looks/feels good, therefore it must be from God…so stop rocking the boat! “
If I have a problem with someone I’m man enough to address the issue with the person I have the problem with.
Your cowardly, don’t take it personal it might be the way you are.
Your afraid of Hillsong ?….no need to be, because if your doing the Lords work God is much more powerful than Hillsong
No more hiding
Thomas Lee
“Your cowardly, don’t take it personal it might be the way you are.”
That’s all you’ve got? A juvenile raspberry response? Did Hillsong teach you that as an apologetic technique?
Let’s say we are cowards. Lets say we are the roweST of the cowards. Does that mean what we have recorded what Brian Houston says is wrong? Is there anything that we have written that you will agree with?
For the sake of the second command, we think it is wise not to disclose our full names. We do not need our close friends and families be shunned, slandered, demonised or even lose their jobs because we dare question the totalitarian nature of the Hillsong empire.
Perhaps you need to be made aware that some of us did go to the pastors privately, biblically. We certainly did, to no avail. Do you heed the warnings from that same bible we all read, that warns us of false teachers in the “last days”? That these same false teachers are going to come under a greater judgment for misleading the flock?
Has it occurred to you that as you align yourself with these same false teachers, that same judgment could fall on you (as you claim to be a leader)?
By the way, there’s a new article up about Mark Driscoll speaking at the 2015 Hillsong Conference – I suggest you read it and continue this conversation over there.
it is obvious by his last 2 comments.. thomas came here with 1 purpose and nothing else.. causing trouble..
nfg
Trust in The Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding.
God will fight your battles, do not fear the Hillsong war machine
Thomas Lee
Maybe ‘Thomas” went to Gordy’s ‘bibul skool’ and passed with flying colours…?
Oh, and for dessert – here’s a ‘special’ message from Jesse Duplantis, under the blog’s title of “Theology for Morons” with a brief video clip of what kind of ‘truth’ comes from the hyper faith camp:
http://kennethcopelandblog.com/2013/08/06/theology-for-morons-jesse-duplantis-blasphemous-absurdities/
FF to the 4:00 point for a revealing debunking of one of Jesse’s insane stories, by Justin Peters.
Your constant searches for “is hillsong affiliated with illuminati” is showing up as a Google search suggestion!!
@newtaste – no need to search any longer – there may never be a solid proven link in regard to Hillsong and the “illuminati” – perhaps you’ll just have to accept what your eyes see and your ears hear instead…
Here’s an interesting little piece (which I think may have had some ‘airtime’ here once before,) about New Age/Occult symbols present at Hillsong “rock concerts”:
http://breakingdeception.com/hillsong-united-church-steeped-illuminati-new-age-symbolism/
I’m not endorsing the website per se (it could contain some naughty little ‘conspiracy theories’ tucked away where I can’t see them :)) but then again, the fact that Hillsong does imbibe in worldly rock concerts on a regular basis, is no ‘theory’ at all… is it?
theres no difference in appearance between that colour conference opening video and a secular concert.
its totally worldly.
paraphrasing from phil 3:8.. they can have it.
nfg
That’s right NFG – they can have it. I know what happens at worldly rock concerts – we used to have a smaller cut down version back when I was a teenager – the Friday night pub gig, and that was not long after Woodstock – the biggest one of them all at that time. My Bible tells me that “emulations’ (trying to emulate others, in a worldly sense) is a work of the flesh, and as we can see, no good thing will come of it:
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, impurity, licentiousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,” (Galatians 5:19, 20)
So it becomes clear from the scriptures, that “emulations’ allows Satan to come in through the ‘back door’, while the crowds of idolaters come in through the ‘front door’ and think that they are doing the will of God…?
The Hillsong ‘version’ would probably have some kind of mesmerism built into it. After all, occult symbology is not just intended to be a ‘decoration’ – it all has meaning – and this is the fruits of it:
“Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:” (2 Thess 2:9, 10, 11)
So it is the spirit of Antichrist who gives forth lying signs and wonders and leads God’s people astray – why? Because they did not have a love of the truth.
If you want to destroy the Church, firstly you must destroy its foundations. The chief cornerstone Jesus Christ, becomes ‘another Jesus’ – then the foundation of the apostles and prophets is undermined with Hyper Faith/Latter Rain/Emergent garbage, and then along comes the NAR (false apostles and prophets,) with their cult like control, as well as their “lying signs and wonders”, thus fulfilling the prophetic warning given to the Church in this passage from 2 Thessalonians.
Sounds like a plan to me…
austin, i know what you mean. and i’ve looked some into symbology & numerology. it does all have meaning to it.
anyway, hopefully we can distance ourselves away from all the worldliness thats nearly everywhere amidst this wicked generation.. and simply please the Lord..
“For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:” phil 3:20
nfg
Hi NFG – It’s a well known fact that occultists lead their entire lives from a book called an “Almanac” – they use it to plot their course throughout each day – literally looking at maps or GPS devices in order to plot a course – if the numbers are wrong – then you just don’t go there…
All of that ‘numerology’ stuff can lead to real bondages for them, but that’s how Satan operates – he always binds people up, but the lord says:
“…you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free…” (John 8:32)
Anyone who feels the need for Occult/New Age symbols ahead of their church meeting/seminar, is certainly bound by Satan. They are the places that genuine believers need to stay well away from. I’m not saying that plastic and metal ‘pyramids’ can harm you per se, but you can’t get caught out by the things you deliberately avoid…
One wonders why Hillsong et al would even bother with such expensive and elaborate props and backdrops – if the emphasis is on Jesus, then why use pyramids at all?
Ask any ex occultist who has genuinely come to Christ, (I know one who has shared some things with me privately,) and they will tell you that Hillsong was infiltrated by the Devil’s men, a long time ago…
“For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them…” (Acts 20:29, 30)
No prizes for guessing who the wolves and deceivers are…
i dont know much about all that.
i just know a couple years ago i looked at.. tavistock, texe marrs, aleister crowley, symbols, numbers. also that mw smith & rocketown thing, etc.
i just didnt want to be totally oblivious to whats goin on there.
now i just watch out for mostly false teacher activity.. which is ok its more interesting to me anyway.
nfg
I’m not trying to distract from the ‘attention’ that the false prophets deserve either, it’s just that the bondage in relation to numbers etc, can be rather severe for the occultist.
It seems that Hillsong attendees have similar bondages in relation to tithing, albeit not as severe, yet nevertheless it is a bondage to believe that you will be cursed by almighty God for not tithing…
I am a Hillsong member and I am wondering how many people have you lead to Christ? Since I been at Hillsong I have seen hundred of people giving their life to Jesus Christ. I used to be part of the New Christians team at that church and that’s why I know this.
I even personally friends with a Hillsong pastor and he is 100% God fearing man and very much a selfless person who sees giving is much more important than receiving. He is probably one of the most generous people I have ever personally met.
Hillsong does not force people to give them money. You are free to choose to give them money.
“I am a Hillsong member […]”
Well there’s your first problem right there, Anthony. Until you address that, no one is going to be able to help you.
“I am wondering how many people have you lead to Christ?”
None. Haven’t you read what Jesus said?
“As for Me, if I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all people to Myself.”
So it’s not us that draws people, Anthony – it’s God. You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that God needs you. Why don’t you have a look at yourself in the mirror; you might be able to see how absurd that is, and how deluded you are.
“Since I[‘ve] been at Hillsong I have seen hundred[s]of people giving their life to Jesus Christ.”
You mean that you’ve seen hundreds of people who think that fawning over Brian Houston and throwing their money at him is a good idea.
“I [am] even personally friends with a Hillsong pastor and he is 100% God fearing man and very much a selfless person who sees giving is much more important than receiving. He is probably one of the most generous people I have ever personally met.”
I’m really, really impressed, Anthony – I bet that he’s kind to animals and children, and that he helps little old ladies across the street, too. Isn’t it a shame, though, that having a religious spirit and doing “good works” doesn’t cut any ice with God?
“Hillsong does not force people to give them money. You are free to choose to give them money.”
Of course people are, Anthony, of course they are. None of us believe those nasty, nasty first-hand accounts of hillsong being an abusive and controlling prosperity cult, and none of us pay any attention to what is plainly evident to even the undiscerning – that Brian Houston preaches a different gospel, and that he does so by a different spirit.
So did you want to tell us anything that is helpful or informative, or even something that is simply correct? Or are you someone like Brian Houston, who just likes the sound of his own voice?
TF, How exactly do you think someone will receive Christ is there is no one doing the work of the ministry and preaching. If God didn’t need us then why are we here? Jesus isn’t walking the streets today saving people, HIS church is. How is that “laboring under misapprehension”? This blog is one of the biggest wastes of a person’s time that I have seen in a long time. The creators should be ashamed. Talk about Pharisees. Calling evil Good and Good evil. Absolute madness. I have no words for this.
“TF, How exactly do you think someone will receive Christ is there is no one doing the work of the ministry and preaching.”
No one doing the work, Michael? Obviously you’ve never heard of the Holy Spirit, the one of whom it is said:
“[…] when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgement: concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgement, because the ruler of this world is judged.”
What a revelation, eh Michael? I guess you don’t know much about God or His word because you’ve been spending your time listening to Brian “Life Coach” Houston, and you think that as long as your pockets are overflowing, you can ignore such peripheral matters as the true Gospel.
“If God didn’t need us then why are we here?”
I can tell you why Brian Houston is here, Michael – it’s because he is an object of God’s wrath: a clay vessel formed for ignoble purposes whose judgement is drawing inexorably closer. Brian currently earns $300,000 dollars a year, but he won’t be taking a single cent of that money to the lake of fire.
“This blog is one of the biggest wastes of a person’s time that I have seen in a long time.”
If you’re looking for the ultimate waste of time, you could listen to one of Brian Houston’s “sermons”.
“I have no words for this.”
Well don’t feel too bad about that Michael, you are not alone: not one of the hillsong apologists who has ever commented here has been able to make a compelling case defending that noxious cult, and the majority have struggled to even string a single sentence together. Their offerings have been characterised by poor spelling, bad grammar, an absence of logic, deficient reasoning, and a stunning lack of both Biblical knowledge and spiritual understanding (I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them were actually hillsong “pastors”).
Anyway Michael, you might be on the wrong end of things spiritually speaking, but at least you have compensations – I see that you are a Joel Osteen fan, so I assume that you are living “Your best life now”. (You do know, don’t you, that Joel Osteen thinks that mormons are Christians? If I were you, I’d be taking back that book “I Declare”, and asking for a refund).
“How exactly do you think someone will receive Christ is there is NO ONE doing the work of the ministry and preaching”
apparently you think hillsong is the only ‘church’ in existence?
besides, hillsong & joel osteen do not preach “the Gospel.” they just make ppl feel good about themselves.. and they make millions doing it.
if you want to feel even better about yourself than hillsong & joel, check out mark beeson’s granger community church. they dont teach the Gospel there either, but you can have even more “fun” living the gospel of self (seeker-sensitive style).
nfg
@Anthony – it seems strange indeed, that you feel it necessary to justify your attendance by your works. most of the folks who come here don’t even mention what they do for the Lord – there’s no need, as Heaven keeps a record of anything profitable, that is done in His name.
Works based religions like Hillsong, will always make you feel guilty, in that you haven’t done enough – haven’t given enough to the “cause”. It’s a lot like the mouse trapped inside the cage, running inside that spinning treadmill – and they can’t get out – a guilty conscience that has been seared by the hot iron of false doctrine, won’t let them out!
Many people find out too late that even though Hillsong ‘looks good’, later on they realise that this organisation operates more like a cult than a church – the emphasis is all wrong Anthony… It’s all about the money and the old tricks of using an inviting venue, peopled by attractive young men and women, with classy music playing in the background, must appeal to many people. A nightclub setting with a spiritual atmosphere? Impossible… but…
In case you didn’t know Anthony, Hillsong’s most recent expedition into Brisbane, has been the official opening of a “Nightclub Church” right in the heart of downtown Fortitude Valley. Allegedly looking for sinners inside the Valley “entertainment precinct”, they’ve stumbled onto a venue that has ample parking and public transport nearby, a venue that everyone from 18 to 35 knows about, and a venue that is two city blocks from massive future city high rise apartments.
Strange isn’t it Anthony, that while the Houstons were ‘seeking to save the lost’, they just happened to park themselves two blocks over from “Millionaire’s Row”, just north of the city’s main CBD? But it’s not about the money…right?
10/10 for ‘discernment’ Anthony…
“I am a Hillsong member and I am wondering how many people have you lead to Christ?”
We have received lots of emails, pms and comments from people leaving Hillsong thanking us for our work. So it appears that we have lead more people to Jesus than Hillsong has.
But to be fair, the Spirit does the leading and Jesus does the saving. We are simply being obedient to his Word in preaching the gospel and exposing the frauds like Brian Houston in accordance to God’s Word.
If you have a problem with – we can’t help you. At least try refuting us biblically if you think we are in error.
Of those 100’s- what percentage have actually stayed? Or have they all faded into the distance after they weren’t the flavour of the month any longer?
Sadly this is very true. In the years I was at Hillsong I saw many people stay for a few months after a “decision” then fall away. It would be very interesting to find out how long the average “convert” stays in their church. I would estimate that they churn through the majority of their membership every 2 to 3 years.
Like Anthony I also knew a couple of Hillsong pastors quite well. They seemed genuinely friendly at first and were very interested in me and the skills I had. But I found they were just taking advantage of my generosity for personal gain and had no care for me as a person. As soon I started to decrease my involvement in church, I never heard from them again, despite the countless hours of service to the church and their personal ministries.
Perhaps the more recent postings of visitors to the blog are trying to equate our scrawlings with their works based religions? From where they are sitting, it might just look like we spend all day posting, and do nothing else?
Well if that is the means by which we reach the lost, who are trapped inside these man made organisations, which act like cults, then let’s keep on doing just that!
Perhaps the time where men will not endure sound doctrine, but will want to heap teachers to themselves, having itching ears, has already come and is well entrenched..?
Some people would rather have their ears “scratched” by false teachers, than to use those same ears to hear Bible truth. “I have no words for this” – I hate to say it, @Michael, but that sounds like the tares talking – a true saint of God who was in tune with the Holy Spirit and knew their Bibles well would have plenty of words to say, as s/he would have discerned the times in which we are living and would speak accordingly…
@AmuZed – perhaps the doctrines on Steve’s blogsite could now be considered “secret” doctrines, (Kenyon’s Hyper Faith rubbish for instance, seeing that no one else but him and his patsies can view them – thank God for that – i can do without both of them (Steve and Gordy = double trouble) 🙂
Perhaps his wishful thinking in terms of being a polemicist has also failed – seeing that no one has engaged with him since March-April this year on the dreaded ‘chookwatcher’ blog, when I and several others “danced around the pole” with him over some servile issues.
Issues which were never resolved at that time, and never can be, due to his circular reasoning and excuse making diatribe, which edifies no one and does get a little boring after the 5th or 6th week in…
Perhaps the “user pays” system would be a better idea – maybe some of us could buy a membership Steve? Then we could be sure that Steve and his blasphemous antics would never see the light of day again – no one would pay good money to have their brains addled with C3/Hillsong propaganda… except those who turn up in such places each Sunday morning, believing that they are actually “going to church” 🙂
PS: Brian Houston has featured on TV newscasts today, in relation to the Royal Commission on Child Sexual Abuse – he testified in answer to victims statements, and allegations that up to 30 AOG/ACC pastors were aware of Frank Houston’s sex crimes, but not one of them took action and called police.
See ABC NEWS 24 live feed (repeated periodically) and networks, 7, 9 and 10 for updates…
Can we please see your credentials and qualifications in the field of “theology” so that we can at least know you are qualified in making comments on “theology”??
Is this where we say “I’ll show you mine if you show me yours”?
I just happened across this blog a couple of day ago, so I’m not responding for HillsongChurchWatch, but could you explain why you think you need formal qualification to make comments on theology?
I wasn’t aware that the Gnosticism had come back into vogue.
I have a bachelor degree in Christian Ministries from an AOG bible college myself, does that mean you’ll consider my comments more seriously now?
I’ve never been to Bible School, but looking around the post modernist Emergent/NAR/Charismaniac ‘churches’ I wouldn’t give you two bob for their ‘credentials’ or doctorates of ‘theology’.
Just look at the awful backslidden mess that the majority of Christendom is in, and ask yourself – “would you give that lot any credibility”???
No – I didn’t think so. It’s such an ‘out’ for many, that they think they will be able to say to the Lord on judgement day “I was just following the man with the piece of paper” and that will suffice for them having little or no discernment…
By the way Jay – it seems that people like Phil Pringle has a ‘fake’ piece of paper from a known ‘degree mill’ so why even bother to ask?
Maybe others who you seem to hold in admiration have no real theology degrees either? Did you ask them first?
“I wasn’t aware that the Gnosticism had come back into vogue.”
Well you haven’t been paying attention, have you?
“I have a bachelor degree in Christian Ministries from an AOG bible college myself, does that mean you’ll consider my comments more seriously now?”
Do know what an intellectual is? It’s someone who’s been educated beyond their intelligence. I doubt that aphorism would be applicable to someone in your situation though, because one certainly can’t receive an education from an AOG “bible college” (too bad you’ve wasted your time and money, eh?)
And this particular Churchwatcher also has a ‘degree’ in Christian Ministries and it’s not worth the paper it’s printed on. But that’s what you get when, in ignorance, you allow yourself to be taught by unqualified ‘lecturers’.
Wow this is a bunch of hate its quite sad that you feel the need to do this blog especially when you think your representing Jesus. i know jesus because i have a personal and intimate relationship with him and pretty sure if you merely read your bible you would see that Jesus wouldn’t approve of your hate and sarcasm.
@anonymous – it’s not hate and sarcasm, it’s just the facts, and you can’t handle that! Maybe your ministry idols are cracking and crumbling before your very eyes and it’s just too much to contemplate — all of that ‘tithe’ money down the tubes, all of those countless hours spent “inside the house” performing good works, while you thought you were serving God…
Honestly ‘anonymous’, I think that you’ve run out of mud to throw, but I can assure you that Brian Houston hasn’t run out of lies to tell – not by a long chalk…
He’ll be somewhere in the world tomorrow morning (AEST,) spruiking his false gospel, building his own kingdom, lying to his “converts” about how prosperous they can be, how divine health will permeate their bodies. Where he isn’t, the Hillsong team will broadcast those lies around Australia and the world via internet or satellite.
He will also gladly pass the “tithe wheelie bin” around the congregations once more – don’t forget to “take your money with you” – ‘anonymous’… after all, you wouldn’t want to miss the blessing on the one hand, or incur the ‘curse’ for not tithing on the other, now would you?
Enjoy the hype and falsehoods of the Hillsong money cult while you can ‘anonymous’… it is the house built on sand, that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 7…
@ anonymous ‘”i know jesus because i have a personal and intimate relationship with him”..Do you mean you have read the WORD ? That is the Holy Bible.
Unless, you THINK you know something different than the Holy Apostles..who ACTUALLY knew him and travelled with Him. What were you saying again??
anonymous, actually it is you who do not know your Bible.
and you are blaming us for hillsong being a cult. that’s not our fault..
nfg
OK we can agree to disagree, i know jesus because i spend time with him. i do not beleive hillsong is a cult because their whole ministry is centered around Jesus.
my name is chloe baillie chisholm have you talked to brian or the victim? please answer dirrectly.
Do you really believe that no person should correct or expose a spiritual leader unless they have not spoken to them personally first?! This is not a mere personal TIFF or misdemeanor between two Christians. How many heretics’ teachings over the centuries would never have been confronted if other Christian leaders had followed your line of reasoning!
P..S. many years ago when I was a young Christian I was helped by this beginners’ book. Kind of like Christianity 101. https://openlibrary.org/search?q=how+to+be+a+christian+religious&has_fulltext=true
It is also available via Amazon and probably still in Christian bookstores. Theology matters. Right doctrine leads to right beliefs and right living. A healthy relationship with Jesus needs your head as well as your heart.
Make sure you use a good bible translation to compare its teachings with the Book of Romans too.
Have just given the e-book a quick skim and noticed it uses a paraphrase version like “The Message”. That is a major weakness.
Go to https://www.biblegateway.com/ to access better translations e.g. KJV, ESV, NKJV.
tell me, Whats wrong with this? Nothing!:)
We believe that the Bible is God’s Word. It is accurate, authoritative and applicable to our everyday lives.
We believe in one eternal God who is the Creator of all things. He exists in three Persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. He is totally loving and completely holy.
We believe that sin has separated each of us from God and His purpose for our lives.
We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ as both God and man is the only One who can reconcile us to God. He lived a sinless and exemplary life, died on the cross in our place, and rose again to prove His victory and empower us for life.
We believe that in order to receive forgiveness and the ‘new birth’ we must repent of our sins, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and submit to His will for our lives.
We believe that in order to live the holy and fruitful lives that God intends for us, we need to be baptised in water and be filled with the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit enables us to use spiritual gifts, including speaking in tongues.
We believe in the power and significance of the Church and the necessity of believers to meet regularly together for fellowship, prayer and the ‘breaking of bread’.
We believe that God has individually equipped us so that we can successfully achieve His purpose for our lives which is to worship God, fulfil our role in the Church and serve the community in which we live.
We believe that God wants to heal and transform us so that we can live healthy and blessed lives in order to help others more effectively.
We believe that our eternal destination of either Heaven or hell is determined by our response to the Lord Jesus Christ.
We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is coming back again as He promised.
Hillsong Church is a member of the Australian Christian Churches. A movement of almost 1100 churches and more than 250,000 believers across Australia. For the ACC’s full constitution, history, leadership and statement of belief, please visit: http://www.acc.org.au
“tell me, Whats wrong with this? Nothing!”
Easy: it’s a lie. He doesn’t believe. This is the exact reason why this site exists – to expose liars and frauds. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out Brian Houston rejects the above statement if you even review a sermons of his.
Simply compare the biblical gospel to his gospel. Compare the scripture to his use of scripture. He’s been caught lying numerous times behind the pulpit. We would encourage you to test him yourself. It’s only the biblical thing to do.
Churchwater, show me what sermon or quote and the source of your information please that shows he doesnt agree with this news shouldnt count because they can put anything up their and people like you beleive it. so please i want an explanation, prove it.
Please do a biblical review of his sermon “Life in the melting pot” or his easter sermon “Glorious Ruins”. Maybe try his sermon “Scandal of Grace”. Maybe review his sermon from Saddleback, “Only for a while”. I hope you can see why they are so blatantly dishonest.
If you do have difficulty seeing the word, topical or contextual games he plays, Chris Rosebrough from Fighting for the Faith does good reviews on Brian Houston. Let him help you know how to read the bible the way Christian’s should. We encourage every Christian to follow his basic bible reading steps.
You have said so many things but you havent shown any proof of it coming out of his mouth.
The problem with liars Chloe is that liars lie to escape getting caught. What makes liars hard is that they will present a lie that looks as though it is truth. They will often appeal to your emotions and experiences to bypass your logic.
This is one reason why Brian Houston always attacks Christians who believe the bible by calling them “critics”. When historical and traditional Christianity holds him accountable to the things he says, he can’t stand it. He often bags them out behind the pulpit.
Cameron Buettel was someone like you who was confused with how Hillsong’s practices did not line up with Hillsong’s statement of beliefs. As a result of him questioning, he was treated disrespectfully. Others likewise have been people like Tanya Levins and Steve West who also raised valid questions within the Hillsong system and treated terribly.
As a result of this behaviour, Brian has to twist the bible and push false doctrines to silence his critics. He can only hide and twist so he doesn’t caught out. He will twist scriptures like, “Judge not lest ye be judged” or “He who hasn’t sinned cast the first stone”.
In fact, he used them last week in his church so his members could use those twisted scriptures to silence people questioning Brian Houston’s handling of his father’s pedophilia and his victims.
It is our job on these sites to untwist the bible and facts he so often distorts. He knows we exist. He’s even commented on our site. And he couldn’t even tell the truth to people in his one comment.
It is our prayer that you can discern the fruit Hillsong is presenting to you. It’s enticing to the eye that’s for sure – but it’s poison will keep you from tasting God’s gospel goodness.
It is our prayer you have the ability to discern good from evil by studying your bible in everything anyone offers you. It can save you a lot of pain.
ok so glorious ruins whats wrong with that all i see is you hear someone say its bad and you believe it explain please.
“all i see is you hear someone say its bad and you believe it explain please.”
We are very glad that you do not take us at face value. However, we are very busy at the moment covering a number of issues in Hillsong, C3, CHC and Yoido Full Gospel Church.
We ask you to do this for your sake: can you please follow our suggestion and check out Chris Rosebrough’s reviews? He helps guide young Christians how to grow in discernment by teaching Christians how to test what people say in the name of God to the Word of God.
Hope this link helps:
http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/.services/blog/6a00e54eea6129883300e54efeb5c98834/search?filter.q=brian+houston
The problem Chloe, is that many young people like yourself have been influenced by the Hillsong system. You may have been brought up in it and you may also have learned some good things from decent people in your youth group – by the grace of God.
However, Hillsong teaches on ‘Tithing’, which was only for the Old Testament times. It is not a Biblical requirement in the New Testament church, but a lot of pastors make millions of dollars out of it every year. There are other things too, like New Age teachings, the use of rock music and spectacular props and displays – these are indicative of worldliness that has crept into Hillsong and other churches in these days.
I knew many fine people in the ‘old school’ AOG some 30 years ago Chloe, but they are all gone now. The movement was basically hijacked by the Houstons and their entourage during the late 1980’s and early 1990’s. Brian went on a tour of the US in 1988 and saw the bright lights of the big Mega Churches over there, and decided that this would be the way Hillsong would go.
Brian uses a watered down version of the Bible, and also employs ‘pop psychology’ and motivational speaking techniques, in order to give a “feel good” atmosphere – very ‘positive’ and very ‘seeker sensitive’, but it is that which does not give room for the conviction of a sinner who sees themselves lost and without hope, unless they repent and come to Christ.
Here’s a short article that shows a snapshot of the life of William Booth – the founding father of the Salvation Army. You can see the man’s agonising passion for the salvation of lost souls. He started with nothing, and had much opposition from the churches of his day, as well as persecution and even on rare occasion, death for some of his people. By the time he died in 1912, the Salvation Army was a global movement, because it was founded on Godly principles – not music, money and false doctrine.:
file://co&20rrupt&20xx/xcorruptx/
Tell me the last time Brian and Bobbie Houston did such inspired deeds, and when they have ever faced persecution and death, for the sake of the Gospel Chloe? Ever?
I don’t have a problem with you Chloe, but I have a massive problem with the Houstons and their opulent lifestyle – they live in the lap of luxury, while many of their people struggle to pay family bills and “tithe” regularly too, and the sad thing is that is all based on a lie – a big fat one…
Sorry about the botched link – here’s another take:
Click to access Founders-of-The-Salvation-Army.pdf
You are doing it again, referring me to someone else and you did not answer my question. every church i have been to tithes tithing isn’t supposed to be looked at as giving to the pastor its looked at as giving to god. Hillsong had humble beginnings and god blessed them that’s why they live a “luxurious” life style not because of all the money but because god has blessed them so much because of their trust ans reliance on him and only him. they rely on his word and his love unlike this blog where they see something that a MAN made up and they think its of god you tell me to discern but i ask you to do the same.
Chloe – we were there from the “humble beginnings”. Back in Sherbrook Hall to the Koala Motor Inn and so-on. We know those have fallen from the bad leadership and the latest fads emerging from Church Growth Gurus. It’s a false movement. We know the history. We are apart of the history. But that has not stopped the leaven from arising and contaminating the entire batch.
God has not blessed them. Brian Houston has used God’s Word to lie to people to get their money so they can live a ““luxurious” life style”. It’s called false doctrine. If you want to defends liars and their lies – we can’t help you.
We are calling on you as a Christian woman to defend Christ and His Word and not the words of man like Houston. If you honestly want to say Brian Houston relies on God’s Word and His love, do your work as the bible says: be Berean. All you are showing is your allegiance to man and not to God.
Show us that your authority is in Christ and not in someone’s house built on sand.
“every church i have been to tithes tithing isn’t supposed to be looked at as giving to the pastor its looked at as giving to god…”
The problem Chloe, is that ‘god’ never gets to see that money – ever.
It is always spent on extravagant items or costs, (beachfront mansions, motor bikes, jet set travel and lavish lifestyles in between meetings) and in many places cannot be fully accounted for.
Test this out by asking to view Hillsong’s full range of annual accounts and tax returns, and just see how far you get, even with a simple request like that…
In the meantime, here’s a link to a well written article on the true nature of tithing – believe it or not Chloe, under the Old Testament, money hardly rated a mention in terms of the ‘tithe’:
http://www.tithingtruth.com
2 Corinthians 9:7 – Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, [so let him give]; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
and anyways so what if your giving money to a church, your being a blessing and you will be blessed! blessed to be a blessing!
Do Not Judge Luke 6
37″Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned. 38″Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure– pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return.”
we can agree to disagree God bless!:)
“and anyways so what if your giving money to a church, your being a blessing and you will be blessed! blessed to be a blessing!”
Think again. Give money to someone who’s spreading false teachings because you were too lazy to do your own research, and guess who’s going to be held accountable for that.
john john, you say its false doctrine i disagree. agree to disagree.:)
You want to be spoon-fed, like many others.
Which is one reason Brian Houston gets away with his unbiblical teachings and antics. He has got you people right where he wants you, unwilling to challenge him, even feeling no need to do so.
That’s how people like Creflo Dollar, Jamal Bryant, and even AJ Miller got to where they are now. Mindless devotion to the point of your own self destruction.
Congrats, you’re in the club now. Appears there’s no way out for you. Enjoy the slide. I predict it’ll be a long one.
its kinda funny how all the people who believe the same doctrine live life with meaning and are united together completely in love with Jesus its also funny how everybody else just kinda falls away but that’s not up to me to tell you your one of those people id really look at your heart.
also why do you feel the need to attack people? its just that i have a different perspective and a diffeent view i respect the fact that you think their all wrong but i have to agree to disagree.
“its also funny how everybody else just kinda falls away”
Yep. Just like Frank Houston’s pedophile victims and his notorious son for showing them Hillsong’s big back door. Don’t forget Hillsong’s iron fist is thumped on anyone who questions them. A lot fall from Hillsong because they dare question the leadership. We’ve talked to people who have been shunned, bullied, spiritually abused and so on.
“id really look at your heart.”
Judge not lest ye be judged right? I thought only God can look at our hearts.
“also why do you feel the need to attack people?”
You will only see it as an attack because you do not know love, nor your bible. Defending people from wolves is both loving and biblical.
“its just that i have a different perspective and a diffeent view …”
Well our view is biblical. Your perspective is invalid. False. Illegal. It’s off the planet. It’s not anchored in the reality of truth. It evolves around fairyland and cannot make it’s way bay back to the realm of common sense. If you want to hold a legitimate perspective, argue from the scriptures biblically. Rightly handle God’s Word butplease don’t twist the scriptures like the “Judge not” passages.
“i respect the fact that you think their all wrong but i have to agree to disagree.”
Jesus says if you do not heed his teaching on these matters your life is built not on the Word of God but on sinking sand.
oh and please show me a message that creflo dollar or brian houston has preached that is unbiblical prove your point because nobody else can!
Since you claim you’re a teenager I will give you the benefit of the doubt and give you way more assistance than I would give an adult. In return, I ask you listen to the mp3 file carefully and check that I’ve typed and what Rosebrough says during his review is fair to Houston and kept in context. http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2013/01/louie-giglio-twists-ezekiel-37.html
The speech starts approximately at 1 hour 32 minutes and refers to 2 Corinthians chapter 7.
Yes at places Rosebrough is pretty harsh – that is because he loves the truth more than political correctness/ hurting others’ feelings. Please keep your defence mechanisms in check and compare what he saying with the bible instead. If you haven’t got one handy, go to Biblegateway website and stop audio file when necessary. Open whole chapter instead of chapter and verse to see surrounding verses.
Whoops, used another email address!
Back to 2 Corinthians 7. Used ESV in case you don’t understand KJV yet. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+corinthians+7&version=ESV
Houston: “… but he (apostle Paul) was talking to the Corinthians and the Corinthians had some real issues… their issues were primarily CAUSED by the apostle Paul…” (1 hour 56 min). Really. Did he make them sin? Did Paul cause the problems?
“ … there are people in life who never learn the power of “only for a while”(2:00). Can’t see the wood for the trees.
(2:03) Swapped translations suddenly from New King James Version to The Message Version, a paraphrase version not translation. “…
“… I believe in this room… there are some that need to make choices…” (2:05) Completely avoided sin) and repentance via different “translation”. This is one of the issues Houston is most condemned for. He will not mention sin.
“…. When people don’t make these choices they live under limitations they don’t need to live under…”(2:08) Why no mention of sin?
“…some people have a filthy spirit… they are negative, they’re cynical, they’re critical… because they’ve allowed things to touch their spirit… some church leaders have filthy spirits” (2:19) did the apostles and Jesus Christ have filthy spirits too?
In prior entry I reminded the reader needed to look at 1 Corinthians, a church with many faults and many sins. e.g. the church was strongly aiding and abetting a man committing adultery. (chapter 5). The CHURCH was sinning, they were told to discipline that man, they responded with a godly sorrow, they were obedient to the apostle Paul’s commandment, they repented of their sins. Something that proper preachers would have made clear from the beginning…. and something that Houston refused to do.
In conclusion: Throughout the message Houston is focused on the phrase “only for a while” for OUR life. The important issues are unaddressed. His goal is to please others, encourage others, if necessary at the expense of the bible.
He does everything to avoid talking about SIN – what Jesus needed to die for to save us. Perhaps this is part of the reason why he has struggled with his father’s own sinful past. Jesus death on the cross would cleanse him of ALL unrighteousness -an issue he avoids completely – including the false guilt he should not be experiencing at this difficult time.
Dear Chloe, I pray the Holy Spirit will open your eyes and help you hear the truth of what is being said. If after listening that review you still believe that Houston is teaching the bible correctly then no human being on this blog will convince you otherwise.
To understand why Houston’s message is so distorted – and why he got strong criticism – you have to remember why the (Gentile) Corinthian church was so severely rebuked by the apostle Paul.
E.g. It was divisive (1 Corinthians chapter 1), carnal- cared more about pleasing the flesh than the Holy Spirit (chapter 3), looked down on apostle Paul for his poverty (chapter 4), were sinning sexually (chapter 5), taking each other to court over minor matters (chapter 6), some were OK with eating meat offered to idols when others weren’t ->causing weaker brothers-in-Christ to sin (chapter 8-10), counting some gifts and roles in the church as being more important than others -> spiritual snobbery (chapter 12), services were too chaotic and needed to have some order restored and boundaries established (chapter 14)….
Chapter 5 had the strongest rebuke for the *church*. The church was *sinning* via aiding and abetting a man committing adultery by refusing to do anything about his sin. They were clearly commanded to discipline that man and in 2 Corinthians it shows they obeyed Paul. They showed true godly grief and true repentance for their sins.
You need to start hunting around for yourself. But I’ll leave you a couple to think about.
(1) Creflo Dollar has taught on multiple occasions: “Jesus was rich!”
(2) I recently noticed Jamal Bryant spewing: “Tithing protects you from con artists and identity theft… Tithing is your insurance policy against typhoons & earthquakes!”
Ludicrous. Once a leader gains your trust, he has “carte blanche” to mess with your thinking and theology.
Jesus was rich! not in money but power! second guy i have no idea who that is but you couldnt come up with one for brian?
Hill$ong …….the love of money , the root of all evil !
I was in the AOG/Hillsong for years and they used to teach that if you did not tithe the devil would devour you.
I heard it regularly.
Thats fraud to get money out of people.They expected you to give under compulsion, not freely.
This helped them get a solid financial foundation.
Hillsong and Brian welcomed the Pope to Sydney.
Catholics pray to Mary ,pray to the dead,pray to statues, believe in works based gospel, protected pedophile priests , forbid men to marry, join with false religions, change the word of God , have a hierarchy that controls,says the pope represents Christ and speaks without error, etc etc
A Godly Pastor should expose the failings of the Catholic crowd and its leader.
When the AOG started it prided itself in being different to Catholics, now Brian embraces Catholics.
Brian should protect the sheep from Wolves but instead he is a Hireling who worships the brand name ,” Hillsong. ”
Jesus and Paul were in disputes on very page upholding the word of God and pointing people to Christ and right living.
Hillsong is an Idol to many.
“Jesus was rich! not in money but power!”
Come on, Chloe. Stop. You know that’s not what he meant. He means filthy RICH IN MONEY.
And I’ll let you look up some of the examples Churchwatcher gave you…
Or the one I gave you on Bryant.
Or Ziggy’s example where Brian has said “the Pope has been a partner in spreading the Gospel” or however Brian worded it.
You are going to have to DIG like everyone else here has done, Chloe.
Ok so we disagree that’s all their is to it!
Chloe, I’m afraid that it’s much worse than that – you have been deceived, and these kind people are trying to point this out. Don’t you think Chloe that it might just be possible that all the glitz and glamour that Hillsong offers up, could be a deception?
Is it also possible that you have come to this blog in order to impress your leaders (who may be egging you on,) and you are maybe hoping that your talents will be seen by the powers that be, and that this will give you the break you may have wanted for some time now?
Opportunities with the band/singers or with junior youth – the pathway to success as espoused by Hillsong leaders and mentors, such as CC??? Perhaps that is your motive Chloe – putting yourself out there via Facebook, your own website, as well as anti Hillsong blogs like this one… a real ‘all rounder’…
It all fits, doesn’t it Chloe?
“Is it also possible that you have come to this blog in order to impress your leaders (who may be egging you on,) and you are maybe hoping that your talents will be seen by the powers that be, and that this will give you the break you may have wanted for some time now?”
i don’t go to hillsong so how does this work?
@Chloe – well if you don’t go to Hillsong Chloe, you might as well, seeing you’re more than happy to defend this ‘false profit’ organisation, and to step up to the plate in front of its detractors (which is more than Brian does…)
I suspect that you do go there anyway, as I heard a whole 24 hour’s worth of silence from you – it is typical for our critics to deny their real affiliations and/or memberships… once they’ve got their story straight…
Like I said ‘Chloe’ – it’s all about impressing people – isn’t it??? Well, I hope that the Houstons are impressed with your ‘performance’ so far – you’ll have to work a lot harder to impress us though…
i don’t ‘hate’ you Chloe, but I and others here on this blog would reach out to you, and ask that you take what we say back to the Bible – it is our final rule of doctrine, practice, christian faith and conduct.
Why not let it be yours too, instead of the ‘doctrines of men’?
first of all im at school and i dont spend all day with my face in the computer, i dont have internet at home. i dont go to hillsong because i live in Maine you all just assume assume assume
Chloe – do you watch Hillsong on media, are you a fan of Bethel’s “Jesus Culture”? I’m curious as to just how your theology and understanding of the finished work of Christ is formed.
Are you a fan of Carl Lentz, whose idea of a pick up line is to say “hey girl I’m just flippen through my bible and it’s incomplete because I’m in the book of numbers and your’s isn’t in there”.
And publically he also says “And I’m still waiting for someone to show me the quote where Jesus addressed it on the record in front of people. You won’t find it because he never did.”
Do you think that’s appropriate for a pastor to be so crass AND display such ignorance about Christ’s stand on homosexuality?
There’s much more I could say about Brian Houston’s “heresy two-step” dance he does with the biblical text but this is just a start.
And Chloe – you may or may not know who Dr. Albert Mohler is? He’s president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and he has some very strong words for Brian Houston (and Carl Lentz).
“Hillsong pastor’s vagueness on homosexuality points to value of Bible’s specificity on sin.”
“Finally, shifting to New York City, Michael Paulson of the New York Times over the weekend reported,
“The pastor of one of the more influential global megachurches has declared that his church is in “an ongoing conversation” about same-sex marriage — saying that it is appropriate to consider the words of the Bible alongside the changing culture and the experience of people in the pews.”
As Paulson writes, the comments were made by Brian Houston, the senior pastor of Hillsong, and they immediately attracted concern from both the right and from the left. And as many denominations and congregations are struggling with how to respond to the rapid expansion of gay rights and the legalization of same-sex marriage, Paulson writes, Brian Houston found himself right in the midst of a controversy.
His church, based in Australia, now has a very prominent congregation in New York City, thus it drew the attention of the New York Times.
“The leaders of Hillsong [writes Paulson, have been avoiding confrontation on the issue of]homosexuality for some time, and the pastor of Hillsong’s New York City campus, Carl Lentz, has declined to take a public position on same-sex marriage.”
But at a news conference on Thursday in New York, Brian Houston (the senior pastor of the entire movement) said,
“The world we live in, whether we like it or not, is changing around and about us…The world’s changing, and we want to stay relevant as a church, so that’s a vexing thing.”
The very vexing thing was the fact that Mr Houston said he didn’t want to state what the position of his church was on the position of homosexuality, and on the issue of same-sex marriage. Later on Friday, the very next day, after a story ran in Religion News Service that caused a furor, a spokesman released a statement saying that Brian Houston lives by “what the Bible says.”
The statement also said,
“It’s very easy to reduce what you think about homosexuality to just a public statement, and that would keep a lot of people happy…but we feel at this point, that it is an ongoing conversation, that the real issues in people’s lives are too important for us just to reduce it down to a yes or no answer in [the media]. So we’re on the journey with it.”
In the written statement released to at least some in the media, Brian Houston said,
“My personal view on the subject of homosexuality would line up with most traditionally held Christian views. I believe the writings of Paul are clear on this subject.”
That’s an answer that isn’t an answer at all. Or, at least, it’s an answer that’s so sideways and vague that it’s hard to know exactly what Brian Houston means to communicate, if indeed he means to communicate anything clear at all. He well knows that there’s a great deal of controversy, given the fact that there are revisionist arguments about the apostle Paul. Is he talking about the traditional understanding of the apostle Paul? Or is he talking about embracing the arguments made by the revisionist, more liberal scholars who have turned Paul on his head? When he says that his personal view on the subject of homosexuality would line up with the most traditionally held Christian views, why didn’t he simply state what those views are?
This raises a huge question from the Christian worldview. A huge question that has everything to do with the gospel. Does the Bible’s very clear specificity on the issues of sin serve the purpose of helping sinners to understand their sin and thus their need for a Savior? That is what the Christian church has believed for two thousand years. The obvious alternative to that the Scripture’s specificity on sin is something of an embarrassment that we have to overcome.
This is a crucial issue, not just in terms of the question of the church’s position on homosexuality; it’s a crucial issue in terms of our understanding of the authority and sufficiency of Scripture, and our understanding of the gospel. What is it that persons must repent of in order to come to Christ and be saved? What are the sins that point out our need for a Savior?
One of the grave dangers in terms of the moral revisionism, is that when we say that sin is not sin, or even – not even going that far – if we mitigate sin or even euphemize it, we confuse sinners about their peril. We do not help them understand their need for a Savior, we cloud that very question.
A quick look at a list of sins such as that found in Romans 1 points out the fact that the specificity of the Bible’s indictment of our sin is not unique to the sins of homosexuality, of same sex acts. But rather, to the sins of every single human being. By the time Paul finishes his catalog of indicted sins in Romans 1, every single one of us, every single human being, is indicted as a sinner. A sinner desperately in need of a Savior.
There are two other points that must be asserted here. In the first place, any church that tries to dodge the question will find not only that that fails in terms of ethical and gospel principle, but it also fails in terms of practice; it fails pragmatically. Because the world is not going to wait and assume that a non-answer is a satisfactory dodge.
The second point is well made by Andrew Walker of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention. Writing in response to Hillsong’s action, in terms of Hillsong’s statements, made in an article published in the Federalist, Andrew Walker points out the profoundly true point that a non-answer in a case like this is actually an answer.
A non-answer on a question of this volatility, of this contemporary relevance and pressure is indeed an answer. The non-answer means, ‘you know the answer we intend to give, or at least you know that the answer we will have to give is not one we’re comfortable giving.’ As always, the fundamental issue here is the authority of Scripture, and of course the integrity of the gospel. But just consider the parallels in a couple of the stories we’ve considered today. When the Supreme Court decided to take no action, it was actually a profound action. And when a church says we’re not going to give an answer, in the end, they just gave an answer.
That’s true of course, not just for a congregation, but for every single believer, for every Christian. When asked a question of this importance, a non-answer is an answer.”
Chloe, it seems we get more biblical gospel from a critique of Brian Houston than we actually hear from a Hillsong service.
“Some people might not like the fact that we use Hillsong’s logo behind different symbols. For instance, we use Hillsong’s name with the symbol of the Vatican, Islam, Occultism, Hinduism, LGBTI and so on. Please understand this: if they push it, we promote it. It makes it easier for people to identify what Hillsong really is.”
You help flog atheist Tanya Levin’s non-belief by posting her ravings as if they are informed and insightful comment. If you are pushing it, you should promote it. You should make it plain that you support and encourage an atheist to write anti-Christian material. It would help make it easier for people to identify what this blog really is – to bring down Hillsong no matter who you have to get into bed with.
What’s wrong NewTaste? Do you have a problem with Hillsong defending and protecting pedophiles but not tolerating Christian or atheist critics? Do you know how evil and wicked that is? We are the evil ones. Pastors are the demonic ones for challenging Brian Houston. (But let’s harbour, protect and not report to the police a serial pedophile.)
What’s ironic is that Hillsong is defending the illegal behaviour of Brian Houston while Tanya wants Hillsong to deal with its victims with Christian integrity. Do you get how twisted that is? The world is teaching you how to behave like Christians and they’re doing a better job at showing your leaders how to walk in love and accountability (which they refuse to do anyway).
Tanya knows that Hillsong does not represent Christianity. And she’s not the only unbeliever that knows this either.
So keep on being relevant with Brian, NewTaste. You’re going to need it. Christ is enough for us Christians. You can have your Hillsong and your latest fads. But the Hillsong Jesus is sending you to a place where the worm does not die.
Why don’t you repent of your idolatry and leave?
“Do you have a problem with Hillsong defending and protecting pedophiles but not tolerating Christian or atheist critics?”
How did they defend him?Brian took away his pastoral credits no time have i heard brian say it was ok in fact in one interview he said he hated pedophile. he didnt contact the police because the victim didnt want it out there. Brian didnt try to pay 10,000 dollars FRANK did hillsong didnt pay 10,000 dollars to the victim FRANK did, If your going to blame someobody get your facts straight churchwater.
Clearly you haven’t been going through the transcripts and sifting through the exhibits.
Critics are the most hated people in Hillsong whether they are Christian or not. And the way Tanya and other members or leaders have been treated is flat out inhumane. If you cannot see the hatred Brian Houston and Hillsong exhibits towards Christianity then that is to your shame.
We have all the facts straight Chloe – did you watch or attend the Royal Commission while Brian Houston and others gave evidence? A few commenters here did.
Actually Chloe, according to people who were there at the time, Frank Houston was hidden away on a church property, situated on the Hawkesbury River for at least 2 years, before the truth came out fully to the then AOG. Pastors were sent an explanatory letter, but congregants were told nothing that their pastors did not declare.
Frank was forbidden to preach, but apparently that didn’t stop him, and no one at the Hawkesbury River church was warned about the pedophile allegations. The executive of AOG investigated the allegations, found them to be true and then Frank was defrocked.
Apparently Frank was being ‘harbored’ from law enforcement at that time, and the weak excuse was given that the victim of his crimes did not want the AOG/ACC to go to the police… we’ll never know for sure.
You can rant all you like Chloe, the fact remains that Brian Houston shielded his father from the due process of the law, and the church harbored him – a crime in itself, but now you would have us all believe that Hillsong and its leaders are just a great bunch of people? The same people who pulled off that illegal stunt all those years ago…
Thank God that the Royal Commission caught up with Brian and company… at least there will be some justice for the victims…
NewTaste- i really like the way you said that and thank you for saying what this blog is.
Chloe – ask Newtaste what he thinks about Brian Houston’s great mate Phil Pringle (‘CEO’ of the C3 movement here in Australia and overseas) and expose the hypocrisy of his comments here.
Newtaste – And your reason for posting this is??
“Do you have a problem with Hillsong defending and protecting pedophiles but not tolerating Christian or atheist
critics?”
I deplore any church or organisation protecting pedophiles. To imply I would in anyway support a pedophile is wrong. Brian admitted he was wrong in what he didn’t do. I don’t accept that Brian defended and protected Frank. He certainly should have announced in full what had happened a couple of years earlier than he did – there should have been full disclosure sooner.
Why should a Christian tolerate an atheist critic? Neil Godfrey at vridar.org is a former Christian who now has one goal and that is to tell the world that Jesus is a myth. Why should I tolerate him?
“Why should a Christian tolerate an atheist critic?” Why indeed Newtaste – why should ancient Israel have been carted off into captivity, not once, but twice (Assyria and Babylon)? Because God used pagan world powers to judge his thoroughly backslidden people, that’s why. In comparison, for Tanya Levin to come after Hillsong with a book, is small biccies.
Not that I’m diminishing her role – I read some chapters of the book on Google only two weeks ago and even the first little bits are such an eye opener… Even if you think of Tanya Levin as a ‘pagan/atheist’ nowadays, the question still remains. Who helped her to get to that point?
She is an eye witness to many events in the early days of that movement, and so her account should be respected with credibility. Brian Houston covered up sins/crimes, while she was suffering from the aftermath of the Hillsong juggernaut, to the point where she literally “lost her faith” in a sea of false doctrines and money raking practices.
Brian Houston is responsible for that…
I’m just surprised that she held her peace for as long as she did, but then again, telling such stories can dig it all up again for you, and it takes time to bury it once more, when you have finished telling it…
It takes time to get some closure on the things of the past…
Ask yourself this: why is Hillsong included in the Royal Commission at all, Newtaste? Because Frank Houston committed sins, which are also crimes in this country, and even while dead, he has had to answer for them through the proxy of his son.
Hillsong has had to admit to the cover ups of some 30+ years duration (from 1977 onwards in this country.) Is it really all about pagan critics, Newtaste, or is the AOG/ACC/Hillsong finally being faced down with their sins of omission from the past???
hillsong’s ‘theology’ and all other false movements & false teachers are like giant magnets attracting and tripping up many ‘Christians’ who insist on placing these bizarre charismatic leaders’ unbiblical teachings & behavior & attitudes above the Bible itself..
the tares are falling for what could be termed ‘personal revelations’ and ‘personal interpretations’..
the wheat are being separated from the tares.
nfg
churchwatcher, you may not know who Albert Mohler is. Mohler nominated Ronnie Floyd for SBC president. Yet Floyd fully engrosses the your money is cursed if you don’t tithe your first fruits theology of Robert Morris. http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2014/03/ronnie-floyd-next-sbc-president.html?m=1
Newtaste – I’m quite aware of that ‘endorsement’. And that would be the same Robert Morris endorsed by Brian Houston, Phil Pringle and Rick Warren?
Silly asking a question when you already know the answer. Robert Morris leaves me cold.
Mohler made up with fellow SBC pastor Rick Warren and now doesn’t have a bad word to say about him.
As usual Newtaste, always avoiding the questions. A master of obfuscation.
I love Jesus Culture i use that pick up line all the time because the fact is we are all human, you shouldn’t hold someone to a standard that is humanly impossible. nobody’s perfect and i have no issues with that pick up line!
Chloe – Anything from Bethel and that includes Jesus Culture will eventually cause a theological train wreck in your life. Just see the impact on its singer Kim Walker-Smith, she is “spiritually clueless”. To quote a friend, “I caution you that what you’re about to hear quickly goes from mildly annoying to blasphemous.”
http://apprising.org/2013/01/15/wretched-jesus-culture-is-more-dangerous-than-bad-politics/
One more thing Chloe – you have already told us you’re a 15 year old girl. so to hear that you’re using Carl Lentz’ pick-up line yourself is very disturbing. As a parent and grandparent, if it was my daughter, she would be seriously reprimanded for unbecoming behavior. It also indicates that Carl Lentz has caused you to “stumble” by giving his approval to this kind of pick-up line for a child as young as you. For an adult like Carl Lentz it just shows his own immaturity and lack of qualifications to care for God’s little ones.
James 3:1 “Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.”
Carl Lentz, like all of us, will be called to give an account for every word. Carl Lentz, having a greater “platform” to speak, and greater power to influence others (even for good or evil) needs to really reconsider his trajectory.
There is so much hate on this site! Why do you spend your time getting angry over what one church does? Shouldn’t you be using the time you have on this earth to bring others to Christ? I go to Hillsong in London. There are things I don’t agree with but I do believe that my attendance there is God led. I don’t feel that I am being conned or brainwashed. I have enough of God’s wisdom to know who the false preachers are.
“I have enough of God’s wisdom to know who the false preachers are.”
Obviously you don’t.
“I don’t feel that I am being conned or brainwashed.”
So tell us, Mark: if you took a poll of a hundred people who were being conned or brainwashed, how many of them would recognise that they were being had?
@Mark – it’s not just about “what one church does” – Hillsong has influence Australia wide, and also global influence, which means that, just through Hillsong United alone (with music as the ‘bait’) Hillsong’s global influence could extend to 30 or 40 million people.
That’s not just ‘one church’ Mark, that is a considerable influence that they have over often young and ignorant people – people who can’t tell the difference between a false prophet and a solid Bible teacher. People who have not had their senses exercised, to tell the difference between good and evil.
Mark, have your church leaders educated you to tag people like us as “haters”, simply because we are asking some very awkward questions, that they don’t want to answer…? Questions about the true Gospel, questions about “tithing”, questions about their integrity when it comes to covering up a whole pile of sins and accompanying lies? Questions about “where the money went”?
Is that what’s happening here Mark???
“I don’t feel that I am being conned or brainwashed.”
neither did eve, thats why she ate the fruit.
nfg
Wow! What a repsonse. No, I haven’t been told what to do by anyone – certainly not to call anyone haters. I love people. I don’t hate. I follow Jesus’ simple commandments, to love God and love my neighbour. Who are you to tell me what I should believe? Who are you to tell me that I am wrong? Are you the ultimate arbiter of what is fake? Maybe you even set yourselves up as the ultimate arbiters of what is good and what is evil. How dare you condemn and judge. Do you think God wants you to do this? HE says love. If you find false preaching, move on. It is NOT your place to judge and condemn.
And guys, I am not defending Hillsong or any other church. I am simply saying that I do not believe it is your place to judge. I don’t believe God would want you to carry on. Move on.
“I am simply saying that I do not believe it is your place to judge.”
Scripture please – and please do not twist Matthew 7 and John 8.
It is our place to judge. There are many verses in the Bible which instruct us to judge people within the church, especially false teachers. If you think I’m wrong then show me a verse that supports what you’re saying.
If you follow Jesus’ commands – why do you say, “If you find false preaching, move on. It is NOT your place to judge and condemn.”
Jesus commands us as believers to judge with righteous judgment. And through the writings of Paul – Jesus tells us not to “move on” when we “find false preaching” but to rebuke them sharply, silence them and kick them out of His church.
So which Jesus are you following Mark? Hillsong’s typical Kumbayah Jesus? Are you familiar with idolatry?
“I follow Jesus’ simple commandments, to love God and love my neighbour.”
You don’t love God. You’ve turned him into an idol and blaspheme him in your apathetic silence. Jesus said that false teachers steal, kill and destroy. As a result in being apathetic towards false teachers in Christ’s church – you do not love your neighbour. Instead you are allowing them to be fleeced and slaughtered by these hatemongers.
You need to repent and turn from your luke-warmness. Fear the Lord, go to Calvary and study the Word so you know the real Jesus of the scriptures. It is not good to see you promoting a false Jesus and erroneous doctrine.
I’ll give you one:
21So Peter seeing him said to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?” 22Jesus said to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!”…
Your turn.
Romans 16:17-18 “I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.”
Ephesians 5:11 “Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.”
Galatians 1:6-9 “I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel — not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.”
Matthew 15:8-9 [Jesus said] This people drawth nigh unto me unto me with their mouth, and honorth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. But in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Can you please explain how this passage is teaching us explicitly that we are not to judge? You seem to be reading things into this unclear passage.
“Your turn.”
Jesus:
“Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” John 7:24
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” Matthew 7:3-5 (Emphasis added)
“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.” Matthew 7:6
This is the one that helps us discern those in the church:
“The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.” 1 Corinthians 2:14-15
Stop being the natural person Mark and be a Christian who judges correctly the spiritual things of God. You are called by Go to know and judge things that are right and wrong.
Why? Because you are to grow in the Word of God, discerning good from evil. If you keep carrying on like this, you are only showing signs to the rest of us that you are wrapped in diapers and living off your own thumb.
“[…] you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.” Hebrews 5:12-14
To not grow in discernment and judgment by studying God’s Word will only have you thrown by every wind and wave of doctrine (Ephesians 4). It will keep you open to satanic attack (Genesis 3). By what authority can you stand against Satan and his teachers if your faith will continually be undermined by him (2 Corinthians 11). Even the Apostle Paul does not want us to put up with them.
What is appalling with your doctrine is that you pit love against God’s truth.
“Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.” 1 Corinthians 13:6-7
If you truly love, you would delight in the evil of these men behind the pulpits and rejoice in the truth (which clearly you don’t). While we are doing our best to protect the church from liars and frauds like Brian Houston and Phil Pringle – you don’t. That is unloving.
While we encourage people to put their trust and hope in God’s Word, the people that we critique continually cast doubt and hopelessness on God’s Word by lying about what it says. If you truly love, then why are you defending the frauds by calling us judgmental? That is unloving.
If you truly love, then why are you judging us for judging? That is hypocrisy – and love is not found in hypocrisy because love delights in the truth. So your very behaviour on our site is both dishonest and unloving.
Love rejoices in the truth. It would be nice to know that you as a Christian brother can stand for both truth and love. We can only pray that you repent and dedicate your life to Christ and His Word and show yourself approved as a brother in Christ. We should all strive to walk faithfully in His Way.
Please go these scriptures above and study them for yourself. We are more than happy to answer any of your questions.
@Mark – well, it’s a bit hard to know which of your posts to begin with. Firstly, Jesus told us to “judge with righteous judgment” – that means that you gather all of the facts about a matter, then hold them up in the light of scripture, and – hey! The Bible does the judging! It is a process, and not just a moment in time…
If we were to merely exercise human judgment towards people, places and events, then yes – we could be very wrong about a lot of things, so we make scripture (the word of God, rightly divided) our sole reference in terms of life, conduct, doctrine and practice, with the Holy Spirit leading us and guiding us, and credible, reliable, mature brethren assisting us.
You can be sure that, with such help, we can judge a person, or matter ‘with righteous judgment’ – that’s how it works…
“Who are you to tell me that I am wrong? Are you the ultimate arbiter of what is fake? Maybe you even set yourselves up as the ultimate arbiters of what is good and what is evil. How dare you condemn and judge.”
Well yes Mark – we do dare, because Jesus tells us what to do and how to do it. And if we disobey the scriptural injunctions, we allow the false prophets a free reign in the lives of those who are not discerning, concerning the things of God.
So ‘no one gets to tell me what to do’ Mark? Nobody can come alongside you and encourage you, or exhaut you, or even rebuke you, if you are going down a wrong track? Nobody???
Well then, I’d have to say that you are in danger of becoming a “lone ranger” in the body of Christ, and if that ends up being the case, you will be far more of a danger to others, than you could ever perceive us to be…
There is NO place in Christ’s body for lone rangers, who willfully ‘ride into town’ and shoot first, and maybe ask questions later…
Finally:
“So Peter seeing him said to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?” Jesus said to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!”…
Your intended misquote as listed above. Jesus was telling Peter that he and the apostle John had different paths to walk on in their Christian lives. Peter would later on suffer martyrdom, but John would be preserved ‘until I come’ said Jesus.
Of course, the other apostles thought that John would not see death, before the Second Coming, but in reality, he was preserved until a few years after the coming of the book of Revelation was given to him. After that, he was returned from exile on Patmos and the last few years of his life were spent in leading the church in Ephesus, and also putting together the New Testament Canon.
Nowhere does that passage give you or I or anyone else, license to live a completely independent life, apart from others, if that’s what you were implying (“mind your own business” attitude???).As you can see, clearly that passage has nothing to do with “judging” people – nothing at all…
this blog is crazy!!! What about Jesus??!! Loving people and being unified??? That is what the gospel is about people! Not bashing each other on blogs. It’s very sad. The enemy is at work – he should be exposed!!
Al- assignment for you to do: first read 1 Corinthians 15:1-8; use easier translation (with good scholarly reputation) if you must. e.g. ESV, NKJV. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+corinthians+15%3A1-8+&version=KJV
Then John 3:16, John 6:47, John 14:6, Romans 10:8-16, Ephesians 2:8-10, Colossians 2:8-15. Take care to notice how the message is completely focused upon Jesus Christ and how faith alone in Him is necessary for salvation.
In return please give:
1. link/s to Hillsong speech/es where Houston speaks on the Gospel explained in DETAIL, not a glib mention, mere footnote or proof-text
2. show BIBLE book, chapter and verse where Jesus and/or the apostles say the GOSPEL is about people, loving people and being unified.
Thanks in advance.
And addressing your “unity” position:
http://teampyro.blogspot.com.au/2014/11/the-intersection-of-truth-unity-and.html
Matthew 10:34 Jesus said He did not come to bring peace but a sword.
He said , ‘ man would be against Father and daughter against Mother……
The unity Paul and Jesus go to lengths to explain is the unity of sound doctrine.
Al,
Hillsong says “We’re All in This Together” which is very true. However they reject genuine criticism from good people who mostly know better. That has been their nature from day one because they are blinded by their own very narrow one faceted agenda which is money and singing. They say it’s worship but it is only old covenant singing and music and their god is money. True Christian worship is in the Spirit but that is very very thin on the ground at Hillsong. It’s mainly loud rock music, where many of the congregation wear ear plugs and a little bit of singing from those up front. For the size of the crowd they hardly make a sound, very quiet indeed, the crowd are mainly watchers at a concert.
They complain about people having an agenda but it’s only because it upsets their agenda. Its quite true, we are all in this together but Hillsong doesn’t really believe that. Like yourself, they label good criticism as the enemy which proves they do have an us and them take on life. They are nothing more than a polluted eddy off the main stream of the true Body of Christ. Just take a look at the body language in the latest pic of the Board of Directors online, very guilty looking bunch indeed.
Just saw that pic of the ‘board of directors’. I wonder how many have ever said the word ‘no’ to brian?
Off topic a little but what is all the ‘master’ and ‘pastor’ creepy stuff by brian?
Jesus Christ is our Master..and He certainly doesn’t fit what houston is saying.
“What about Jesus?.. and being unified???”
it is not WE HERE who are breaking unity. its those who have left sound doctrine that are causing the divisions.
“I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those WHO CAUSE DIVISIONS and put obstacles in your way THAT ARE CONTRARY TO THE TEACHING you have learned. Keep away from them.” (romans 16:17)
from matthew henry’s concise commentary..
16:17-20 How earnest, how endearing are these exhortations! Whatever differs from the sound doctrine of the Scriptures, opens a door to divisions and offences. If truth be forsaken, unity and peace will not last long..
nfg
If we are to avoid those who teach false doctrine , then would u agree we must keep away from Hillsong and their fellowships , Catholics , Anglicans,Mormons, JW’s ,Gay friendly fellowships and so called churches that promote unity amongst false religions like Islam and New agers and all other movements that teach false doctrine.
Are we heading back to the book of Acts where they met in homes to break bread ?
Is that the remnant church the bible speaks of ?
Well done “concerned pastors, leaders and elders”. This site is just tangible evidence of your insecurity, ignorance, clear lack of intelligence and small-mindedness. Your church* mob will never be as influential, successful and as fast-reaching as Hillsong so maybe just wipe those disgruntled tears away and move on.
*please don’t ever claim to have knowledge of or relationship with God, Jesus or the HS because it is very obvious you don’t.
Whose truth sets you free? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A31-36&version=KJV
Hint: isn’t Hill$ong.
Because Hillsong doesn’t preach about our Lord Jesus Christ, salvation and our need to repent of our sins, it is a complete failure, completely ignorant, lacking in intelligence and small-minded according to GOD. A “church” that doesn’t preach Christ is not Christian no matter how big it gets.
Mere human opinion counts for nothing compared to God’s…. too bad what you say or feel about Hillsong, what does God Himself say in His Word about preachers and church leaders who do not feed His sheep as they are commanded?
Jesus amazingly did not win many converts, so if you equate success with numbers like the world does you need to be aware truth is what really matters.
Jesus said , He was the truth ,
Brian Houston and other false teachers from many movements have trouble properly interpreting scripture.
Jesus said, if you love me you will keep all I have commanded you .
Brian preaches another gospel.
Brian welcomes the Pope to Sydney…enough said !
@truth sets you free: “This site is just tangible evidence of your insecurity, ignorance”
Do you mean that Brian is correct in saying Christians and Muslims serve the same God??????
“clear lack of intelligence ”
You mean like when Brian couldn’t find ‘modalism’ in his dictionary? And asked: “Is that a word?” OR when brian couldn’t understand what a ‘conflict of interest’ was at the Royal Commission?
“and small-mindedness” …Surely not like brian calling all critics Pharisees?
Brian doesn’t understand that pharisees were Jewish/Old Testament..and rejected Christ. He really should start reading Christian history shouldn’t he?.
The Pharisees were OBSESSED with tithes..and Jesus Christ rebuked them for it..sound like anyone you know?
“*please don’t ever claim to have knowledge of or relationship with God, Jesus or the HS because it is very obvious you don’t.”
That is exactly what i was going to say to you.
This might upset you hillsongster… but not only do i claim to have knowledge of God’s Word..I REVERE IT …I can actually read God’s Words and the Word of Christ in Holy Bible!
That’s right! I don’t need Frank, Brian or bobbie..same as the Holy Apostles didn’t need them!
Then again, you can always buy your copy of ‘You need more money’ OR bobbie houston ‘Kingdom women love sex’ book.
Perhaps the houstons think they can lay these hillsong ‘books’ on the throne of God?
Whatever they are pushing..it isn’t Almighty God’s Kingdom..that’s for sure.
Look, Christine Caine doesn’t have too much of a clue of what the Gospel is. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=H75CAgAAQBAJ&pg=RA11-PA18&lpg=RA11-PA18&dq But she does try. Brian does though. I don’t have a link to anything, but when I do i’ll post it.
Newtaste – you say “I don’t have a link to anything, but when I do I’ll post it”
With all the archived Hillsong sermons immediately available, you are actually admitting you have to search to find the gospel in Houston’s sermons.
I’m glad we’ve finally found the person who is without sin and has the authority to judge ministries that are changing people’s lives around the globe. Too bad the rest of us are still sinners, of which I’m probably the worst, and are just doing whatever we can to advance the Gospel. Thank you so much, you are the knower of our hearts.
I’m very thankful for the ministries of Brian and Bobbie Houston. Even though they are clearly not as perfect as you since you have authority to judge.
People’s lives are being changed and are accepting Jesus at Hillsong Churches everywhere, so I guess I’m going to stick with the sinners.
Thanks anyways.
A question Alec, and while we are in agreement about the state of our own hearts – why does Brian Houston publically endorse (and has his photo as a header on his twitter stream) heretic/modalist and Oneness Pentecostal T.D. Jakes. And how many lives are “changed” by such a purveyor and promoter of false WOF doctrines under the endorsement of Brian Houston? There’s another one to answer for as well.
http://carm.org/td-jakes
http://carm.org/steven-furtick
One more question – as Bobbie Houston continues to invite false teachers to the yearly Colour Conference, how many women’s lives are “changed” by her endorsement.
http://carm.org/joyce-meyer
http://carm.org/beth-moore
Cheers, Team Churchwatch.
Ah I love Pastor TD Jakes as well! I have a friend who’s life has been so radically changed because TD Jakes introduced him to Jesus.
That’s what it’s all about right?!
I love ministries like his whom God has so blessed to be world renown. He truly elevates those who do his work, right?
How come no ones really heard of your church? That’s wack man!
“I’m glad we’ve finally found the person who is without sin and has the authority to judge ministries that are changing people’s lives around the globe.”
Please tell us. Someone from the Christian Post? Someone from Christianity Today? Pastor James White? Pastor Chris Rosebrough? Your average mum and dad? Some one from the Sydney Morning Herald? Brian Houston’s old school bus driver?
Tell us. Please.
If you want to slander and condemn us, don’t copy Brian Houston’s bible twisting (who is without sin) and hypocritical approach. It only makes people wonder if you go to Hillsong.
“I’m very thankful for the ministries of Brian and Bobbie Houston.”
So tell us, Alec: how thankful, exactly?
In dollar terms, I mean – what is the total amount of your money that you have handed over to Brian and Bobbie to express your unbounded appreciation for what they have done?
How much money does one have to part with to “change lives”, Alec?
I’m actually just very thankful for the multitudes of people who have now witnessed Jesus’ name because of their ministries.
But if you want to talk about dollars ( since money is mentioned a ton in the Bible), I’d say one would just have to give a tithe (approx. 10%) if you attend that church. You can also give tithes and offerings because it says in 2 Cor. that God loves a cheerful giver!
You must not run a church or anything?
“[…] I’d say one would just have to give a tithe […]”
If we “have” to do that, are you then asserting that we are under grace, except for the one little matter of being obliged to give God a percentage of our money? Are you saying that faith alone is not enough?
“it says in 2 Cor. that God loves a cheerful giver!”
And how does one give cheerfully when one is placed under compulsion by an alleged requirement to tithe? Either giving is done cheerfully in accordance with one’s free will, or it is done under compulsion – it can only be one or the other, as they are mutually exclusive.
I would have thought that since you are clever enough to be attending a University, you would have understood such elementary truths as these. What are you doing a degree in? Left-handed basket-weaving for marginalised minorities?
@Alexcantrell: “People’s lives are being changed and are accepting Jesus at Hillsong Churches everywhere, so I guess I’m going to stick with the sinners.
Thanks anyways.”
You must be a newbie at hillsong..I DARE you to get up at hillsong and tell everyone they are sinners. Quote the Word of God: Romans3:23 ” for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”
Don’t you know the gospel of ‘awesomeness’ ? And don’t you dare mention sin and Repentance. Brian’s minders will have you out of there!
No actually I go to Southeastern University in Lakeland, Florida!
We have this thing on Monday nights called 1st Chapel (watch online at 7:30&9 http://www.seu.edu/chapel ).
We have a pretty wild time every Monday night and a lot of people have had their lives changed!
You’ll LOVE it!
“People.. are accepting Jesus at Hillsong Churches everywhere”
really? which Jesus is that?
that other Jesus who.. never preaches repentance from sin, tells you live your best life now, you need more money, you must tithe 10%, muslims & Christians serve the same God, the pope has helped spread ‘the gospel’, and who introduces you to false teachers?
nfg
Not exactly!
We just believe in the Jesus of the Bible! You should check that one out sometime and then I think you’ll really understand what Pastor Brian and Bobbie (even the pope) are talking about.
Man aren’t we all false teachers in a way? Just sinners trying our best to represent a perfect and matchless God? I know that’s me. Or maybe your the exception… ( for ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God)
“We just believe in the Jesus of the Bible!”
no, actually you dont. in fact your ‘school’ wants you to believe in ‘spiritual formation’. thats not a biblical principle, its an emergent one. i bet you dont even know where they got that bogus idea from.
————————————————————————
“Man aren’t we all false teachers in a way?”
again, thats not taught by the Bible. you believe a lot of junk thats not in the Bible.
———————————————————————–
“I know that’s me. Or maybe your the exception… (for ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God)”
dont put words in other ppl’s mouth. of course all have sinned. but that verse has absolutely nothing to do with granting a weird exemption to teaching false doctrine.
———————————————————————–
your school’s ‘conference’ spkrs werent too impressive either. including chris hodges, who i noticed a couple yrs ago felt so sorry for his buddy dino rizzo he took dino on staff after dino’s affair had wrecked dino’s church. tsk tsk!
no Bible teaching, spkrs without integrity, thats quite a ‘school’ youve picked alec..
nfg
Hillsong shows people Christ for their own gain. Christ sets people free unconditionally, no strings attached. Hillsong sets people free so they can tie them up in legalism and give them all their money. It’s another gospel that points people to Christ to set them free, then in the next breath ties them up in legalistic knots with old covenant truths like tithing. Hillsong is pure Latter Rain gone bad. Its the gospel of Joel, the prophet of pentecost, which points people to Christ, in an old covenant way, but isn’t Christ and is disconnected from the real body of Christ. They really only predominantly attract and appeal to people who have a religious disposition. Even atheists are religious.
Great speech about Christian music today!
Steve Camp – The Worship Driven Church:
Wrong link, look for recent clip named “Worship Driven church”
http://www.youtube.com/user/AominOrg/videos
Your head office is in San Francisco. http://wa-com.com/hillsongchurchwatch.com That’s funny.
They use domain by proxy so the address you have is not churchwatch address. My websites also use domains by proxy as it hides your real info and links back to just the business providing the service.
Hillsong’s url shortener is hil.so. An appropriate url shortener for church watch would be sa.tn. Sums up this website, so really hope you get it.
With that, goodbye.
“Hillsong’s url shortener is hil.so. An appropriate url shortener for church watch would be sa.tn. Sums up this website, so really hope you get it.
With that, goodbye.”
Having another one of your bad days, Newtaste? You should tweet that to Papa Brian, so he can see the wonderful effect his fine teaching is having on our youth…
The melbourne age did an excellent article on hillsong last year. They take in $72 million plus a year, tax free because they claim they are not a business. This is despite their music industry approach to making albums. Tithing and the prosperity doctrine, upon which their appeal and vast wealth are built, bring people back into bondage and fear. Like all fads, people will eventually tire of them and move on, leaving their vast auditoriums to gather dust like the cathedrals in Europe. Christ shall see the travail of his soul and be satisfied. Many false prophets shall come in the last days so we shouldn’t be surprised but look up for our redemption draws nigh. Read some sarcasm on this site. Let’s be kind to one another, even those with whom we disagree. We are to speak the truth in love.
People here believe it is ok to attack and belittle others that don’t agree with them because Jesus did it.
Sorry if that’s how you feel Paul. You don’t have to come to this site if it bothers you.
I come mainly to read the articles as there is little truth in some of it, not all
I know it may reap coals on here in responses but I will pray for you guys
“People here believe it is ok to attack and belittle others that don’t agree with them because Jesus did it.”
Dear Paul – correction: we do not tolerate unrpentant liars and blasphemers that parade they are of God.
They are the wicked sowing lies, discord, division and hatred in the church. Not even Jesus and his Apostles tolerated these men. We are trying to wake people up out of this deception. You would be wise to treat these men in similar fashion.
Wolves are not Christians – they are enemies to Christians. We can only pray they repent and come to know Christ, who can even forgive them of their ways.
We get accused of being with hillsong or on his payroll because we don’t agree with everything here.
I was told you guys are here to teach and lead people down the correct path?? Making assumptions on people and not replying with anything that can be of a benefit to most of them is not doing what I believe is what God requires of us.
We need to help not ridicule right??
If you believe some have no hope then pray for them.
Now here is a question, do you love Brain Houstin, Phile Pringle and other false teachers ?? The bible teaches that we should love all but does not mean we need to associate with them.
I love all people no matter who they are or what they believe but does not mean I agree with their false teachings or associate myself with them.
Paul, you seem to think we owe you some explanation. I suggest you go away and do your own research into false teaching and its impact & consequences on former members of these churches. Come back in a year or two and present your findings.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Your comments are staying in moderation, Paul.
“and not replying with anything that can be of a benefit to most of them is not doing what I believe is what God requires of us. We need to help not ridicule right??”
Dear Paul, what would you think this link is for?
https://hillsongchurchwatch.com/finding-a-good-church-near-you/
I agree with Churchwatcher, you would be better off doing some research for awhile.
Its a waste of time getting into it Paul as your talking to a brick wall, better you just forget this site and move on.
@martyn haggerty , agree with you, except: “Read some sarcasm on this site. Let’s be kind to one another, even with those whom we disagree.”
There is a growing trend from those who teach false doctrine that sarcasm is somehow un-Godly. We should not speak of these false teachers in derision.
Did not Elijah MOCK the priests of Baal saying: “Cry Aloud for he is a god, either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is on a journey”
Then began He [Jesus] to UPBRAID [reproach,mock, defame] Matt11:20.
“He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh, the Lord shall have them in derision” Psalm 2:4.
These false teachers mock the Word of God. I would rather be sarcastic than allow worldly , shallow, smooth lies to be overlooked.
I don’t know why you feel the need to let people comment because you are setting people up to get in strife and angry with one another the fact is we are all going to stand before god so honestly instead of arguing about hillsong why don’t we move on and live like Jesus would because I guarantee you he would not be sitting around doing this.
1 Corinthians 6:5-8 — I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers! Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren!
I think its time we take a look at why you do this and the motives behind it.
Do you believe exposing false teachers to be of the same “importance” as trivial legal cases amongst bickering brothers (and sisters)-in-Christ?
If so, do you realise you are the apostles themselves who commanded us to *do just that* of being in error, judgemental and unloving? Do you question *their* motives as well?
Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Read Jude chapter 1 for full context. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jude+1&version=KJV
@I love jesus. I have no anger, but i cannot ignore the Holy Bible.
This does not make me more pious than you, or any better than you.
You say you ‘can guarantee Jesus would not be sitting around doing this’.
Really? the moneychangers, the pharisees and sadducees..Jesus did nothing?
John the Baptist , in your opinion,should just have ‘moved on ‘ ?
Can you still guarantee you are right and the Life of Christ in the Bible is wrong?
Motives? Only one.The Word of God preached honestly without man-made modern additions.
And this old-style southern USA preacher’s response to a friend of Hillsong, Steven Furtick says it “real well” on behalf of Christians labelled as haters.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1220142150580
Hey, “I Love Jesus” – that’s just an alias, isn’t it?
I know that your *real* name is “I Love Brian Houston”.
never met him and never will and didn’t Jesus tell us to love?? so ya I love him just like I love you.
@I love jesus. Could you show me from the Bible where you can ‘guarantee’ Jesus Christ would not criticise?
If not, do you know what ‘taking the Lord’s name in vain’ is?
It is using your own thoughts, words and ADDING to the Holy Word of Our Lord and Saviour, when a simple reading reading of the Bible proves your ‘guarantee’ false.
Please take the time to think seriously about your comments.
I’ve monitored and seen no false prophets. I see the fruit of the gospel, people turning to Jesus and this watching is only benefitting one…the Devil, who wants to divide the church.
“I’ve monitored and seen no false prophets. I see the fruit of the gospel, people turning to Jesus […]”
That’s funny; that’s exactly what all the other tares are saying.
“[…] the Devil, who wants to divide the church.”
Neither Brian Houston nor hillsong have anything whatsoever to do with God’s church.
The problem is which Jesus, which gospel and which spirit are they following. Cult leaders will always present a believable Jesus to it’s followers but will add to them to control people. Hillsong has been exposed of being guilty of this.
You should try talking to people who have left Hillsong.
I AGREE! @stjernholmens i don’t see how this website is bringing people to Jesus it just shows that a lot of people in the church are messed up in the head and deceived and we wonder why people call us the crazies…
@ilovejesus and @sternholmens – I think you are following and worshiping the wrong ‘Jesus’. The plastic Jesus makes no real demands, but the leaders of false cults who promote this false ‘Jesus’ do – they want your time, talents, energy and MONEY. Yes, dont forget to ‘tithe’ to the false ‘Jesus’ and its wayward high priests of Mammon… to forget to do so may well bring a curse, according to them…
And down below there’s a link to Mr Holmen’s Twitter feed, with the latest ‘Tweet’ (26 December 2014) clearly promoting Brian Houston and Hillsong TV.
Further down you’ll see that he is a member of Hillsong Copenhagen, in Denmark and that he clearly promotes Houston’s tax free entertainment company (Hillsong) to people in Moscow AND Kiev! Blessed are the peacemakers??? Or is that the money makers?
An unbiased and observant person? I think not – here’s the Twitter link:
https://twitter.com/stjernholmen
https://www.facebook.com/stjernholmens
“Hillsong directs people to other churches”
Yes, mostly other Word of Faith heretics, also making their buck off ‘the Gospel’:
Stjernholmen, for the “fruit” of the Gospel to be produced the “seed” has to*first* be planted I.e. the whole Gospel received by the new convert in faith. Next the “seedling” has to be cared for extensively e.g. given sunlight (learning about the Son of God, Jesus Christ), watering/ fertilized (watered, nourished with God’s Word) and correct pruning (confronted with need for to cut out personal sin and support in doing that if necessary).
Since it appears you are a serious follower of Hillsong are you able to provide a video link/ audio file where ANY Hillsong preacher presents a “repentance and forgiveness of sins for those who believe in Jesus Christ” message similar in content to the apostle Peter’s message in Acts chapter 2? Thanks in advance.
So nice to finally meet the 4th person of the Godhead…Father, Son, Holy Spirit…and the HOLY WATCHDOG!!!
Seriously, we have a massive mission ahead, and disillusioned and disgruntled people would rather gather and play God…than get on with the Mission of God!!
Show me a man or women who’s theology is 100%…and I’ll show you Jesus!
1 John 4:1 “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world”.
Mark, false teachers and leaders are rampant in the church today, the bible warns us, doesn’t it?
Let’s consider Paul’s words to Timothy (1 Timothy 4:16) “Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers”.
Pastors earn our respect, not our blind following. Does what they teach line up with the truth of God’s Word? How many people today are accepting teaching that contradicts the Word of God? Like the Bereans, we must approach the scriptures with eagerness to learn but also wariness about their ‘truth’, so necessary with the scripture twisting epidemic we see today.
Are you warning the sheep in your care to be like the Bereans, Mark? To be watchful? Are you willing to let them test everything you say against the Word?
Yes…and doesn’t every judgmental spirit just love that scripture!
Throw out the tensions in scripture…of which there are many, and jump onto the scriptures we love and serve our purpose! That manner of doing theology is incredibly dangerous. Think about Jesus, who embodied the “fullness of truth and grace.” Surely the women caught in adultery deserved her punishment in the light of truth!!! Come on!!!
There might be truth, and maybe even a lot of truth in your crusade against Hillsong…be there is very little if any grace!
I don’t belong to Hillsong, never been to a conference, and only heard him speak once…but I have met MANY MANY people who have encountered the real Jesus in and through the Hillsong ministry, and as far I am aware…we should judge someone by their fruit!! (I am sure you know the scripture!)
Surely our fight is to find unity and commonality in Christ wherever we can, against an enemy who is very real….rather than looking for the conspiracy theory amongst those who worship his name!
I stumbled onto this page through and internet search, but to be honest…your time would be far better spent than this. The Gospel is at stake!
My challenge to you as I go! Go outside…get away from the internet… find a normal human being who is precious to God and doesn’t care who Hillsong is…and reveal the love of Jesus to them!! Very simple…and dare I say far more impactful and effective for the Gospel!!
This is a site warning people about the dangers of Hillsong and their WOF teaching. What does Hillsong have in common with the gospel? Let’s start with Brian Houston and his ongoing endorsement of false teachers, i.e. T.D. Jakes, well known WOF teacher and heretical modalist.
But unfortunately as far as Houston is concerned, modalist isn’t even in the dictionary.
http://pulpitandpen.org/2014/09/18/pp-transcript-brian-houston-asks-if-modalism-is-a-made-up-word/
1 John 4:1 “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world”.
Do you have a problem with this scripture? Why? Isn’t it in your bible? Do you skip over it when preaching?
Cool! Came back for amusement sake!
Honestly, this website smacks of disillusioned, grumpy Christians who have forgotten the mission, and thus have too much time on their hands!
The great Apostle Paul, dare I say the greatest “church watcher”, when addressing the church in chaos in Corinth in 1 Corinthians states, ” I always thank my God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus.” (1 Corinthians 1 v 4)
He was speaking to a messed up church who weren’t getting a lot right. Yet, he is still able to recognize the grace given by Jesus, even amidst their mess. You are unable to do that with the Hillsong story!
I am sure God will honor you in Heaven one day by saying, “Thanks for being my policeman! I needed the help!”
I would suggest you are part of the problem, not the answer, Mark.
Perhaps we should call you ‘Mr. Sparkle’? You seem quite enamoured with the Hillsong methodology.
http://www.alittleleaven.com/2015/01/are-you-ready-for-the-word.html
You truly seem to have no idea the damage these ‘churches’ have caused in the lives and families of so many. But the Lord knows and cares for His own and has been leading them out to far greener pastures – pastures shepherded by humble godly men, not hirelings (in silver tights).
You don’t realise the extra damage you are doing to messed up christians that also visit this site especially if they are new christians. They would see us fighting among ourselves and end up falling even further away.
Hi Paul – we talk to messed up Christians every day who have been abused by these cults. We give them the gospel, we sit down with them and give them the Word and are sensitive to their hurts.
It is not us fighting Paul – it is the cults that declared war on the church. We are defending the faith. It is the spiritual criminals like Phil Pringle and Brian Houston that are destroying Christians through their lies and manipulative games.
May Christ rebuke you for your foolishness and lead you into his truth.
But it is churchwatcher and no its not always the people within these groups you are disagreeing and arguing with. You dispute and argue with many people from different churches on here.
My idea of a site for witness would be to yes alert about false teachers but then not just go on about that but actually offer teaching and instruction on the site that you know in your heart to be correct. This site lists all the bad but does not teach anyone the truth and this is where the site falls apart.
Revealing what you believe is false and then not teaching what you believe is the truth is the absolute wrong way to go about things. Put some teaching and instruction on the site would then be a benefit to all.
If you want us to provide more teaching, well see what we can do. We’ve often talked about this.
Paul, if Churchwatcher is OK with it: I will aim to do what you suggest via giving links to sermons, speeches etc. that specifically address the subject that Churchwatcher provides in the post.
Exposing Hillsong is Churchwatcher’s goal after all. Christian apologists, preachers and speakers have the expert knowledge needed to explain Christian theology etc.
e.g. Christian musicians discussing purpose of music in church. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEo4K2tsxew
Bud, in this little cyberspace world I am sure there are many that are enamored with your voice, but I do not hear the echoes of Jesus here. There is absolutely no grace, but rather just an invitation to fight.
The Gospel I believe, which is higher than your Reformed Theology definitions (try and find “Reformed Theology” in your Bible concordance) speaks of a great love that leads to a knowledge of God and an acceptance of Jesus Christ as Saviour.
This website and your opinion lack one MAJOR Jesus characteristic…Love!
Last time I read my Bible, Jesus told me to “love my enemy” (Matthew 5 v 44). Even if you were to consider the Houston’s and Hillsong your enemy, that very same Bible your quote so freely, would instruct you to ‘love them’. Not agree with them, not contribute to their ministry, not endorse their ministry, and not buy their cd’s!! Those are completely up to you!
BUT…”love your enemies” is not an option.
I am sure this probably won’t sway you in your convictions. That’s probably not my job anyway.
From well-known love chapter: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+13&version=KJV
Note verse 6: 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth….
Does Houston preach the WHOLE truth Mark? Half-truths are lies Mark. Omission of the need to repent of sin is at *best* negligent!
*Is it loving to NOT warn other brothers (and-sisters)-in Christ of a false teacher?
* Is it loving to tell other Christians seeking to protect other people from deception to stop doing so?
*Does God approve of people who care so much about *appearing loving* to the world that they ignore unrighteousness and deception (and try to fight it, no matter what the source is e.g. people who CLAIM to be Christians)?
Ok now answer me this?? Is it loving to call a pastor by derogatory names on the churchwatcher twitter account ?? absolutely not LOVE at all. You may not agree with these pastors but you still need to show some respect.
Jeaus, Paul and the Apostles showed no respect to frauds that came in Gods name. They utterly shamed them. Obviously you have a problem with Christ and His Apostles.
They shamed them but did they go calling people derogatory names ?? No they did not.
I have no problem with Christ or his apostles but I have a problem with you if you think Christ would agree with you using derogatory names. You can shame someone without resulting in name calling which I saw posted a few times on the twitter account.
You failed in your answer my friend.
“You failed in your answer my friend.”
You failed as a disciple, Paul. God’s Word is Truth and you are rejecting Christ and His Word. Christ said, “If you love me you will keep [uphold/preserve] my commands”.
Would you rather us use biblical insults in labelling these men as perverters of God’s grace, wicked, spiritual adulterers, prostititutes, brood of vipers, satan’s ministers, children of hell, white washed tombs or people that spread false doctrine like gangrene?
We have gone through our twitterfeed to examine your claims. If you are annoyed with the tone of those tweets, you’re not reading your bible. God is more severe in his language than us.
In the end we will all be made accountable for what we say and do in our time on earth.
“They shamed them but did they go calling people derogatory names ?? No they did not.”
From Jesus’ own mouth in https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+23&version=KJV:
….But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!…..
Woe unto you, ye blind guides….
Ye fools and blind…..
Thou blind Pharisee…..
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! …..
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
You need to read your (non-Message paraphrase version) bible more.
Yes but did he come out and personally label each person – leech, moron, idiot and so it goes on??
Proverbs 30:15 “The leech has two daughters. ‘Give! Give!’ They cry. There are three things that are never satisfied, four that never say, ‘Enough!’….”
Certainly appropriate application to the C3 Vision Builders dinner it referenced at the time.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“leech, moron, idiot and so it goes on”
Like we’ve said to you already – read your bible. Your feelings are getting in the way of what the bible teaches in it’s entirety on these issues.
I’m going to bring a few church friends onto here in next few days, 2 of them are retired pastors and I’m sure this will get interesting.
Paul, this particular site isn’t here for you to play games with your friends. Comments will be moderated by the various ‘churchwatchers’ overseeing the sites.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Please do. It would be interesting to see how they handle God’s Word. Hopefully the dialogue will be productive and not petty.
Viper is a synonym for snake. Somehow am pretty sure that was not meant as a compliment. Certainly in Australia leeches, idiots and morons are usually way less dangerous than our extremely poisonous snakes ….
Remember the snake in Genesis chapter 3?
The appropriate biblical term would be “wolves”, pretty much sums up the spiritual condition of those ‘pastors’ addressed here and on twitter. Appreciate the support, Thinker.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
No games at all but I have told them and they are interested in seeing what its all about.
Anyone is free to visit this site as long as they abide by your rules
“Anyone is free to visit this site as long as they abide by your rules”
Every group has rules. At least we do our best to encourage everyone, including ourselves, to submit to the rule of the Spirit and His Word.
At least we allow people like you to challenge us publicly. We do hear. And we will make changes if necessary. We can humbly say we have changed our articles and tone of this site on occasion thanks to our critics, no matter how off the wall they are. We consider all their statements from a biblical point of view.
Good luck going into one of these churches we monitor and challenging them the way you do us.
so thinker you believe it is ok to twist scipture to abuse others because as you say Jesus did??
Paul, from your earlier entry: “….They shamed them but did they go calling people derogatory names ?? No they did not….”
All objective people can see your claim is directly contradicted by Jesus Himself (Matthew chapter 23).
“so thinker you believe it is ok to twist scipture to abuse others…”
Seriously? You managed to “see” *cough* imagine that I could think that was OK because I showed a passage where Jesus rebuked the Pharisees? Wow.
“….because as you say Jesus did??”
Jesus used strong words. He did not twist scripture. Satan does. So do servants of Satan, disciples of servants of Satan, and biblically ill-informed Christians momentarily misled by Satan.
Paul you were shown a clear passage – a whole bible chapter, not single verse – where Jesus clearly rebuked the Pharisees, using very strong language. Admit you’re wrong. We’ve all been wrong at some time or another. Stop word-gaming for your own sake.
Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.
The book of Jude isn’t exactly what I would call “endearing” towards the ungodly either…
He used strong language without a doubt but he never did single out a person he addressed them as a whole.
Wrong again. Jesus said “get behind me SATAN” to one of his closest apostles, the apostle Peter. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+8%3A31-33&version=KJV
I won’t be back but I like “Mr Sparkle”. Thank you! Not sure what it means but it has a ring to it! Enjoy your journey.
@mark: “I am sure God will honor you in Heaven one day by saying, “Thanks for being my policeman! I needed the help!”
Are you sure that God would say that? Are you adding to Holy Scripture and putting your own words in the mouth of God? Do you know what blasphemy is?
@mark: “Show me a man or women who’s theology is 100%…and I’ll show you Jesus!”
No mark, Jesus Christ was not a woman.
@mark: “..rather than looking for the conspiracy theory amongst those who worship his name.”
Matt24:11 “And many false prophets shall rise, and deceive many.”
Matt24:24 “For there shall arise false Christs..”
Matt24:25 “Behold, I have told you in advance.”
Jude 1:4 “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Quite a conspiracy theory, don’t you think mark? Are you calling Jesus Christ and His Apostles conspiracy theorists?
You “like mr sparkle.”
Yes, i believe you would find that appropriate for worship.
thetruth, i havent been paying as much attention to whats happening here lately but i did notice youve been posting excellent rebuttals. excellent point you made on marks foolish statement about conspiracy theories. thetruth youre right, i missed that one. but thats a foolish statemtnt on marks part! mark is mal-informed.
also, i did notice mark’s into the FALSE UNITY obsession, thats rampant among all the “a-pope-states” (apostates), since mark said this..
“Surely our fight is to find unity and commonality in Christ wherever we can, against an enemy who is very real….rather than looking for the conspiracy theory amongst those who worship his name!”
mark is rather naive. that is FALSE UNITY. it is never advocated in Scripture. instead Scripture argues against the FALSE UNTIY that is currently blindly giving a free pass to those perverting the Gospel & perverting doctrine..
instead of “love” which is the other foolish point that mark is arguing, that is “hatred”, because not having the courage to TELL THE TRUTH about false gospels will send ppl to hell.. sorry mark but that is not “love”,,
nfg
In what part of the bible does it give us (all sinful as each other humans) the permission to be so judgemental of other people. I find it so hard to read any of this website content purely because I feel disgusted and ashamed at the extent of what us humans are capable of blurting out of our mouths. Wow, gossip and judgemental attitudes are just getting worse each day.
john 7:24 [Jesus said] “24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”
http://www.studylight.org/commentary/john/7-24.html
Strange, isn’t it thinker…there seems to be a troll who never replies to Holy Scripture, never uses Scripture to make their case, has the same grammar under different names, tends to be quite annoyed about Biblical discernment websites with an awful lot of spare time on their hands. I wonder if this applies:
1Cor1:18, “For the preaching of the Cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved, it is the power of God.”
Not IT- savvy enough to be able to confirm that type of gut feeling unfortunately. The Sword of the Spirit is a better weapon against some troublemakers e.g. false prophets calling “peace, peace….” http://www.acts17-11.com/fprophecy.html
Hi Bill. We were heavily involved in Hillsong once. Most of the people we went with back then have now left. We go way back.
I am creating a blog in response to this website as there I can say stuff that is not censored or twisted.
What kind of church do you attend, Paul?
I attend an independent church that has nothing to do with the churches targeted on this website and the other churchwatcher sites. We have no links to any large church organisations.
We disagree with a lot of things that are happening in the major churches.
At the most we have around 50 members and operate in a little community hall in my local area.
“I am creating a blog in response to this website”
@ Paul,
Another rather irritable man already tried that. His nom de preference was “gordy.” His anti-website’s total visitor count last time I checked shot up to an astronomical 10-15 (including all the curiosity seekers from here)…
Did I say it was going to be an anti website?? not good to always just assume things before you see it.
See now drew this is how some people here think
Oh and john I don’t disagree with everthing on this site but there are some small things questionable where i can answer without being censored or twisted.
What have we twisted Paul? What have we censored? Pretty sure we’ve approved all your comments.
I use this name on your other sites and had posts deleted. But then again there are a few that use the churchwatcher account so hard to track it all.
My blog I already have but I’ll just be adding to it on a few questionable things I see from here.
I basically own a blog on gaming and other topics for christians. I’m just going to add to that site and then anyone here is welcome to take a look.
@paul. Mind if i ask what the name of your independent church is?
And if, as you say, you have nothing to do with the churches discussed here..why are you here?
Would you have many, many discernment websites on your mind..or just this one?
“Why are you here?” To direct traffic to his gaming blog? This is not the first time someone with a gaming blog has visited this site….
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
My blog covers many topics and I’m not here to drag people to it, my motivation for saying your welcome to take a look is if your worried what I may say about this site.
I attend a church called Bibleway community church now if I ask you to tell me where you attend you would refuse to do so right as its none of my business?? I don’t mind you knowing my church as i have nothing to hide unlike the people on here if I was to ask the same thing.
I read a lot of different websites talking about different churches.
you are trying to destroy a movement that actually brings people closer to Christ and is doing great and motivating the next generation to go even further than the average Christian. carl lentz is gifted by god and is doing the right thing here in nyc. SINCE YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY PASTOR TOO? HE IS CHRIS DURSO FROM CHRIST TABERNACLE NYC. HOW ABOUT CHAD VEECH AND CHRIS HILL YOU JUST SIT BEHIND A COMPUTER HOW ABOUT YOU TALK TO THEM PERSONALLY. YOU ARE JUST A BELIEVER WHO DONT BELIEVE ON THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX AND CREATING NEW IDEAS AND SUCH.
“YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY PASTOR TOO?”
Well he seems to have failed to teach you the gospel. We could say that we have a problem with him but it is more likely that God Himself would have a problem since God says that teachers are to be more severely judged.
Our question to you MovementNYC is, what is the gospel?
I was on the verge of accepting Christ into my heart until i came across this website…
The amount of hateful sarcasm and self righteousness that this website conveys in it’s articles and replies to other on this website, is causing me to feel as if maybe Jesus’s love is not even a real thing.
Hillsong may not be as “religious” as Church Watcher, but Hillsong is the one who gave me a reach to pull me into a relationship with God and Jesus.
Thankyou for stopping me from the big mistake of being a Christian….clearly it’s just a cult…..Hurts my heart, but it can’t be true if there is so much confusion and fighting. 😦
Disappointed – the one who does the choosing is God. If you are truly His, you are saved by faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross.
Ephesians 1:4 “He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him.”
And as for confusion?
1 Corinthians 11:18-19 “For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions (heresies) among you. And I believe it in part, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.”
Well said!
Disappointed, any Christian needs to build their faith on Jesus Christ of the Bible, not on a human church of ANY variety, including Hillsong.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in *HIM* should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 6:47 [Jesus said] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
All you need to do is believe In JESUS. No need to accept Him into your heart.
A faith built on a church will be an exceptionally weak faith. If your faith in Jesus might be destroyed by a website criticising a CHURCH -that has many faults (addressed by other serious evidence-supported websites too) that it refuses to deal with – you should seriously ask yourself what your “almost faith” is really in.
For your own sake please read the Book of John and the Book of Romans to find out about the whole Gospel. https://www.biblegateway.com/
If you cannot understand the King James Version use a proper translation like the ESV (many modern scholars’ favourite), NKJV.
P.S. I quoted from KJV above. Many Christians are OK with other translations but the KJV is by far still the best for English speakers.
“Hillsong is the one who gave me a reach to pull me into a relationship with God and Jesus.”
Please explain. Was it through their music? Their positive, feel-good environment?
Churches help connect people to God. You guys are literally just doing the complete opposite.
“Churches help connect people to God.”
Can you please expand on this? You do realise that cults like Hillsong send people to hell. Why risk your soul in defending the damned? (Gal 1)
Jade Fester said: “Churches help connect people to God.”
Jesus said: “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him”
Who should we believe, Jesus or Jade? It’s quite a tough question, isn’t it?
Excellent that you have finally apparently realised that your logo was too blatantly Roman Catholic so you’ve restricted it to the About page. But why have you replaced your Roman Catholic logo with a Hillsong logo that almost implies some link between Hillsong and your Ros Reines-Annette Sharp-Perez Hilton inspired scandal sheet? You’re as trashy as a Reines or Sharp story, though not flashy like Perez. And as boring as Luke Foley. And about as noteworthy as Dan & Maz.
NewTaste. That was very naughty.
Go to the naughty corner.
Who are you? Where are your names and contacts please?
Instead of looking at everything that Hillsong does wrong, how about you get up make a difference by connecting more people to God. Do you know how many lives are changed week after week by the Hillsong pastor’s messages? Hillsong constantly delivers the message of God’s love for us, and they do not in any way try to rebuke sinners for their actions, as we are all sinners.
This blog personally makes me sad and aware of how possible it is for people to come around something so good, and so pleasing to God, and find a way to breed evil.
Do you think blog’s like this in any way will extend the kingdom of God?
And you all have so much negative to say, but only due to the fact that you can hide behind some silly screen name.
I do understand that Hillsong church may not be for everyone, but to dedicate your time and possibly your lives to trying to bad-mouth a church is a complete mockery.
I truly hope that you guys are able to find God again and fall in love with him again. Look past whatever issues you have with yourselves and just know that God is in control of everything, and his will will always be done.
Thanks Guys.
Jade how do you know that people calling Hillsong out is not part of Gods will ? Maybe he wants his people warned ? Bless You.
My friend encouraged me to go to Hillsong church. I attended a few times now. I have to say this does not appear to be a church where the word dwells richly. I remember my church history lessons where at one time in the church’s history people tried to use Greek philosophy as a way to draw people into the church i.e they would use Greek philosophical ideas and then link to Christian teachings. I recall that the consequence of this was that it was the Greek philosophy that grew stronger. Hillsong today appears to be trying to draw people into its doors by using/appealing to the culture of the world. For example, the great emphasis on music and successful careers and parties and constant socialising. In London on a Sunday after church many people from Hillsong church are in the bars all day long. Today Easter Sunday I went to a party where people got drunk, where one girl who had never been to church before in her life said she was shocked to see this level of partying in church. There was no difference between the Hillsong party and one in the world – certainly this did not bring glory to God. What fruits do people bear? Is there an emphasis on equipping people to handle God’s word aright? The approach that Hillsong is taking is one in which the culture of the world is laced with supposed Christianity. The end of this is that the world’s culture is made prominent over the word. This is nothing more than the work of the devil himself. A sly use of religion to draw people from God. I doubt many people would be in Hillsong if it wasn’t for all the music and constant partyIng.
I don’t think it fair to call it a cult though. It part of the wider pentecostal denomination church.
It’s a cult that has hi-jacked that the Australian AOG.
We’ve already proven that Hillsong:
1. Preach a different Jesus.
2. Preach a different gospel.
3. Preach a spirit that is opposite to the Holy Spirit.
4. Preach a different faith.
5. Endorse men who are on board with their false beliefs.
6. Brainwash their congregation through crowd control and manipulated environments.
7. Operate with no integrity, accountability or credibility as supposedly qualified men and women of God.
If you think Hillsong resembles the Christian faith – then we would like to hear you give us the gospel. What is it?
I don’t know what AOG stands for..You have not proven that it is a cult. As I said I I find that the word does not dwell richly in Hillsong but I don’t agree it is a cult. The things you list above are not stringent enough to constitute a cult. For example, you say they teach a different Jesus but Islam teaches a different Jesus – Islam is not Christian but it isn’t a cult now is it? The Catholic church teaches that Jesus is crucified over and over again at the mass while the bible says he died once for all time – isn’t that a different Jesus – is the Catholic church a cult? It might have deviated from biblical understanding but it is still not a cult. The characteristics of a cult are different. Hillsong isn’t a cult as far as I can qualify. Also I have observed that you seem very emotionally antagonistic against the Hillsong church which leads me to believe you might have had some personal connection and falling out with the church leaders/members hence this blog and bitter attitude..
Andrew says “I have observed that you seem very emotionally antagonistic against the Hillsong church which leads me to believe you might have had some personal connection and falling out with the church leaders/members hence this blog and bitter attitude..”.
Andrew, if you took the time to read this site thoroughly you will find its commenters and contributors ARE ex-leaders/ex-members, which gives them a valid voice and insight into the true workings of Hillsong.
AOG = Assemblies of God
Hillsong aside – Catholicism really is a cult when compared to other cults.
https://carm.org/comparison-grid
Andrew: “Hillsong isn’t a cult as far as i can qualify.”
Andy, could you tell us what makes hillsong NOT a cult, as far as you can qualify?
I know the Bible qualified Jesus disciples, as 40 year veterans of Biblical scholarship, and Jesus worshiped the pharisees who knew the law.
haha… oh wait no they didn’t have qualifications, either did most people in the Bible… can you cite in the Bible the minimum qualification? You seem to be an expert… are you the Jesus’s father? (you seem to think you are)
Oh and Hillsong hasn’t been part of AOG for years. They are part of Australian Christian Churches.
I’m sure you and your freemason friends are having fun hating on churches, but I find your conduct completely contrary to the Bible from any traditional background.
Are you even Christians? or pastors from some weird cult.
“Are you even Christians? or pastors from some weird cult.”
Sorry if you are a bit confused. We are Christians who follow Jesus Christ and his teachings. We show our love to Christ by keeping his Word. You should get to know Jesus and love Him. Cults like Hillsong, C3 and City Harvest Church encourage people to elevate the love of man above God’s Word. As a result, false converts can’t see passed their own flesh and pride. You need to be broken by the power of the Holy Spirit and the gospel and repent of your pride and arrogance.
Christ died for all of our sins so that we may be forgiven by God the Father, walk in newness of life and spend eternity with him. Simply repent of your wickedness and come to know Jesus Christ as your Lord as Saviour.
But then you already know that. Isn’t that right, FL?
Not FL, c’watcher, to save your troups from hurling bundies in FL’s direction for no cause.
Whoever ‘Dawesi’ is, they’re pulling the wool over your eyes at FL’s expense.
‘Dawesi’ is most certainly a creep in troll’s clothing.
Notice the web address they give is churchwatchwatch.com, which doesn’t exist.
The actual site is …………….
You’re being had.
Check to see if the IP leans towards being in the Brisbane area and you can confirm my suspicions as to who it actually is.
Long, long time since FL commented here.
“Long, long time” maybe, but there’s no doubt about your regular monitoring, is there? Given that we only had to write “FL” of “Facelift” in response to several comments? That says an awful lot about your obsessiveness with these sites, mate.
Cheers, Team Churchwatch.
FL, the heretic who deludedly believes everyone he disagrees with is a calvinist..
i have yet to find FL even one time ever rightly dividing the Word. they must not teach that at his beloved cult leader PP’s c3 pastors school, nfg
Andrew: “Hillsong isn’t a cult as far as i can qualify.”
Andy, could you tell us what makes hillsong NOT a cult, as far as you can qualify?
It does not meet the requirements of a cult. For it to be a cult it must meet all the requirements viz:
1. A Messiah like complex – teaching that a person or the organisation can save (only that person or organisation can save) or even that the person himself is the Messiah/Jesus – Eg. Jim Jones and the peoples temple
2. Forbidding the followers to question #1 or to question the authority or teachings of the leader or leadership of the organisation – Jim Jones and the peoples temple
3. A small group of people distinct from mainstream society that believe they are specially chosen by God. Jim Jones and the peoples temple
4. As a consequence of 1,2,3 detriment to the members such as loss of life, financial hardship, etc. – Jim Jones and the peoples temple
None of these apply to Hillsong. #1 applies to Catholicism, #2 used to much more strongly apply to Catholicism #4 used to apply to Catholicism (many were executed for heresy). But by virtue of the large numbers involved it is mainstream and not cultic (#3 does not apply). All four apply to the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
We can see more than a few similarities in this article on cult analysis.
https://carm.org/cults-outline-analysis
Thanks Andrew. “2. Forbidding the followers to question #1 or to question the authority or teachings of the leader or leadership of the organisation.”
That describes brian houston perfectly…or has brian decided to take questions on hiding his father’s crimes and his secrecy on the same subject?
Remember his email telling pastors that this information should NOT go to the congregation? Thank goodness for the Royal Commission!
And..let’s not forget brian telling the whole Christian world that he has “NO financial or MORAL responsibility” to these child abuse victims, who brian personally knew!
Defend houston if you must, but in no way is this Christian behaviour.Perhaps you could question him about it, if it isn’t a cult.
WHY is it that NO-ONE at hillsong has dared, publicly, to ask brian about all of this?
Because, as you know…NOBODY gets to ask brian questions that may be ‘uncomfortable’. That’s not a cult?
Whatever they are they are evil. They will try and steal your identity then all your ideas. This has happened to me many times,its wrong and its like stripping part of a persons spirit away. Be very careful when they tell you to share your ideas to everyone in the church, they will say you cant do anything by yourself because a lone person needs their church family and the only way to get ahead is to share ideas,which they will steal and claim as their own. They wont help you to bring these ideas to fruition, you are nothing to them but a tithing slave. These people who did this claimed to be my friend too,how sly. Jesus has shown me the truth and its happened to me too much and Im so grateful I am out of there. There are plenty of people in the bible who God took away to strengthen and advance by themselves but Hillsong say its not possible. They are nothing without the brainwashed flock. I pray for them to see the light and leave.
“This has happened to me many times,its wrong and its like stripping part of a persons spirit away.”
We’ve experience this too. They treat you as though you are an asset.
“”they will say you cant do anything by yourself because a lone person needs their church….There are plenty of people in the bible who God took away to strengthen and advance by themselves but Hillsong say its not possible.”
Like Joseph he was in total isolation. noone could have helped him but God. Thats one lone person who “kind of” made a difference (became #2 in egypt).
Moses was another “lone person” in isolation from everyone he knew, then became #1 leader of all God’s people
Can you please link to the list of pastors that support this group?
I can just find people in the shaddows, and not any that are, or have ever been Christians? Why do you not list your names on the site and allow accountability.
What Bible are you reading that HATING is ok? This is a hate site, not love or grace. I’m worried for you.
Please provide a link to the facebook page so I can at least see who you are, and if you have position and credibility in any Christian circle. If you do, then great… but this site is anonymous which raises more questions than it assumes it answers.
“This is a hate site, not love or grace.”
No – this is a Christian site where it appears you have a high threshold of biblical ignorance. If you knew what love was and honestly knew God – you would not put your authority in men but in God. Stop comparing us to the works and praises of men and start comparing what we say to the Word of God.
@Dawesi: “What Bible are you reading that HATING is ok? This is a hate site, not love or grace. I’m worried for you.”
Ever read Proverbs 8:13: ” The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.”(KJV).
Psalm 97:10 ” Ye that love the LORD hate evil…”
Hebrews 1:9: “Thou has loved righteousness, and hated iniquity…
So the question may be…What Bible are you reading? Extremely worrying.
“This is a hate site, not love or grace.”
@Dawesi, Since when does (1) telling the truth and (2) revealing scandal = hatred?
Where did you get your very confused set of values, friend?
I must agree with Dawesi.
If you are so confident in your view of Anti-Hillsong ideas and “cult” theories, show your face and say it proudly in front of everyone in the name of Jesus.
If you can’t you are a coward, and a deceitful work of the Devil.
Hillsong is a Church raised BIG and STRONG to glorify God. And Devil is trying to deceive people by taking the credit.
You don’t see Brian Houston (the pastor of Hillsong Church) hiding his face while trying to convey his interpretation of the Gospel. If he is not doing God’s work, why is he so prosperous and you are not hillsongchurchwatch.com?
Get your lies out of here with your Illuminati sign crap and show me some compelling evidences. Do not try to shake the Faith of those who are trying to walk the road to Truth.
Here is the HATE that God has allowed. I am, as well as Dawesi I believe, hating on your dirty lies and deceitful connections of the facts.
Dawesi and Hosanna,
People like you are always good evidence that Hillsong and C3 are cults.
You have the audacity to claim you have love and we don’t. Hypocrites!
It is you who hate actually hate Christ and His Word. If you truly love Christ you will do as he says, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments”. Instead you love and defend the teachings of men and love them according to their lies and gimmicks. Remove the log from you own eye first and judge with righteous judgment.
You also show any lack of biblical discernment. You are typically parroting the same brainwashed, fallacious arguments of Hillsong members. You can’t defend them biblically – so you argue the same way the world does. “Look how amazing the outside of their cup is!”
Both of you expose yourselves in your commentaries for exalting and defending man above God. To call good evil and evil good in the name of Jesus Christ shows truly how apostate and black your hearts truly are. And we can make these judgments by diagnosing them against God’s Word. You are suffering from idolatrous worship. You have elevated the second commandment above the first commandment “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength”.
And Hosanna – we care about the truth and judge according to the truth by pointing people to the truth of God’s Word. However, you judge by mere appearance which is in direct contradiction to Christ himself. And of course you would! Only Satan gets people to focus on exterior. We could tell you not to eat from the tree of good and evil and your argument would be, “But this tree has produced so much fruit! The fruit is appealing to my eyes! Who are you to say that Satan and this tree or evil?” The sad thing is that we would appeal to the Word of God – and you would label us “haters”.
Your standard is what you see not what you are commanded by God to believe.
To end, we will ask you this question: “What is the gospel?”
“we would appeal to the Word of God – and you would label us “haters”.
So very very true. Steve Furtick also uses the hypocritical “haters” theme in his video. To silence his critics. (It is hypocritical because if anyone is a “hater” it is Furtick for hating God’s Word.) But all Lemmings fall head-over-heals for Furtick’s cheap shots.
Furtick is not just another hypocrite, he’s one of the biggest, even as throwing disabled visitors out of his services, and supposedly faking baptism numbers, and supposedly seeding throughout his sunday audience with fake converts (who were already part of his church) to initiate a mad rush to get ‘saved’ (maybe yes? maybe no?) at the end of his services.
Dreamstruck hypnotized movements followers cannot differentiate fake from real.
“Get your lies out of here…. and show me some compelling evidences”
=> Kong Hee being tried in a SECULAR COURT in Singapore for stealing $$$millions$$$ is not some ‘evidences’ for your little brain? No?
=> Brian Houston being tried in a SECULAR COURT in Australia over a major abuse scandal is not ‘some evidences’?
=> Yonggi Cho being CONVICTED in a SECULAR COURT in S Korea for embezzling $$$millions$$$ is not some ‘evidences’?
‘Lies’??? ‘Compelling evidences’???
Oh yeah, there go those SECULAR COURTS convicting people for doing “GOD’S WORK” again. Explain to those SECULAR COURTS that these REAL CRIMES were really just ‘God’s work’ so they understand. So those SECULAR COURTS can show the ‘grace’ of the secular law….
Hosanna, Wake up you moron.
If only you wouldn’t focus on the spec in someone else’s eye. So many hypocritical statements around division etc. It’s time to recognise this page is dividing the kingdom. At the end of the day, we may not all agree on the same things, but if we all love Jesus, let Him be our judge. Just as you may not support the leadership of a country, does not mean you shouldn’t support them and uphold them in prayer, as goes these men in ministry. So much effort into proving people wrong, I don’t think Christ spent time scheming against other ministries did He? He would have been all for anyone worshipping His Father and set the example to follow. We have access to an incredible amount of information to us in this day and age, so much could be used for good yet we find ourselves losing time of the day criticising rather than seeking.
“Just as you may not support the leadership of a country, does not mean you shouldn’t support them and uphold them in prayer, as goes these men in ministry.”
If we applied your analogy to the kingdom of God then you are defending a man who is committing treason before God. It was the Pharisees that feared man above God and decided to get rid of Jesus so they could enjoy their kingdom while it lasted. Brian Houston is no different to them:
“A man planted a vineyard and let it out to tenants and went into another country for a long while. When the time came, he sent a servant to the tenants, so that they would give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the tenants beat him and sent him away empty-handed. And he sent another servant. But they also beat and treated him shamefully, and sent him away empty-handed. And he sent yet a third. This one also they wounded and cast out.
Then the owner of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my beloved son; perhaps they will respect him.’ But when the tenants saw him, they said to themselves, ‘This is the heir. Let us kill him, so that the inheritance may be ours.’ And they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them?
He will come and destroy those tenants and give the vineyard to others.” When they heard this, they said, “Surely not!”
But he looked directly at them and said, “What then is this that is written:
“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone’?c
Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him.”
“We have access to an incredible amount of information to us in this day and age”
Which makes one wonder…
Yes, that is correct. YOU DO have access to all these articles telling YOU all about Brian Houston’s false teachings.
And telling YOU about all his questionable dealings.
And telling YOU about his love for the world.
So WHY would YOU support Hillsong, Josh Schroeder?
Two Cents – your comments are staying in moderation.
I love how your CHIREYE becomes the focus of these vestments. Fergie would look good in the serum. Although you may want to rethink the orientation of the eye shape in this design as it appears to be a cat’s eye rather than a human’s eye. Looking forward to seeing your other products.
“Newtaste – And your reason for posting this is??”
I thought you might want to go.
Ok, Newtaste – why would WE want to go? Is this finally your acknowledgment that Brian Houston and Phil Pringle are “best buds”? Aren’t you concerned that your hero, Houston, allows your least favourite speaker on the Hillsong platform? Like Driscoll, he only had to “google” to see that Pringle is a false teacher AND false prophet.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Wooooow…. I feel sorry for you guys. I don’t know who you are – as you have not the guts and courage to stand for what you say and don’t sign with your real name. But all I see (after reading 1 of your articles and read the titles) is hatred and jealousy. Why taking so much time willing to put down someone’s reputation? Are you envying Houston’s success in his ministry? Coz devoting one entire blog to crash him down… Is like you have no life ! I have never seen that in my life. I pray for you and that you get a life. That your soul and Spirit may be full of love and
communion. You need more love and need to pray more to get wisdom. And if you are a Christian, you should know that Jesus is all about Love. Don’t be the one, who condemn and plot
“And if you are a Christian, you should know that Jesus is all about Love.”
And if you are a Christian, you should know that Jesus said, “If you love me, keep my word”. In fact, defending blasphemers and liars proves you don’t love Jesus – but men. Consider Jesus’ words:
“The eye is the lamp of your body; when your eye is clear, your whole body also is full of light; but when it is bad, your body also is full of darkness. “Then watch out that the light in you is not darkness.” Luke 11:34-35
“Why taking so much time willing to put down someone’s reputation?”
Because God COMMANDS Christians to expose wickedness and expel the wicked from the church.
All we are doing is elevating God’s Word and His instruction above the ways of men – and you seem to hate this. If you have a problem with this – than your problem is not us but God.
Maybe pray about it and examine what the scriptures say about false teachers? Maybe compare what Brian Houston teaches up against God’s Word? See if he qualifies?
Don’t be the one, who God condemns because you chose to cherish the darkness above the light of Christ’s love and His Word.
Fears website owners will be stripped of anonymity under ICANN proposal
http://m.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/fears-website-owners-will-be-stripped-of-anonymity-under-icann-proposal-20150626-ghyb4y.html
In Subtitle: “…..anyone who operates a “COMMERCIAL” website….”
Hillsong always copied my personally styles on twitter/Facebook because that sucks and all cults are brainless 😦 (Give it thumb down boo)
Yes they do it subtly so other people dont notice,but you do,its to make you think theres something wrong with you,like your going crazy,but really your not.. Thats called “Gaslighting” and its what Psychopaths do to their victims they are trying to destroy. Stay away from them.
I just read a Reuters report on Yahoo about pop singer Justin Bieber getting sucked into Hillsong.
https://uk.celebrity.yahoo.com/news/justin-bieber-heads-down-under-hillsong-church-worship-083915781.html#EWRL0mk
The Reuters reporter seemed completely oblivious to the fact that Hillsong has been widely condemned as a heretical ‘prosperity gospel’ personality cult and describes Hillsong as a ‘Pentecostal church’ (!).
So, after posting ! Timothy 6 up on the comments, I was delighted to find your website and pointed interested readers in your direction.
Well done, keep up the good work!
I remember meeting a girl about ten years ago who went to a perfectly good church at university, but her ‘home’ church turned out to be the London branch of Hillsong.
When I very calmly and cautiously expressed concern about this, she got really arrogant and abusive and totally dismissive of relevant Bible passages.
The whole personality cult around the apparently unimpeachable Brian Houston came out very strongly.
She then maliciously reported me to Hotmail with some kind of false accusation of harassment and got my e-mail blocked from ALL Hotmail addresses!
I only worked out that this was what had happened when my messages kept getting rejected by Hotmail accounts and I sent a query to Hotmail customer service.
They replied that they’d had a ‘complaint’ about me, but wouldn’t provide details.
I decided not to send anything to her through the post for fear that she would get the police onto me next!
Sorry to read you had such trouble from that woman. Quite malicious thing for a “Christian” to do as well. If you read enough of this blog you’ll see pro-Hillsong entries have one thing in common with her strategy – don’t ever *ever* deal with the topics being addressed. Name calling e.g. “haters”, accusations “you’re jealous”… they know they can’t defend it and so they have to resort to (usually emotional) distraction tactics.
The rare but most sophisticated variety you’ll see sadly is “look over there…squirrel!” (Look at this unrelated bible passage to the topic, not the one that clearly exposes Houston for what he is – a false teacher, that gives a different answer, therefore that verse you quoted doesn’t count *apparently*).
You should all listen to a Radio Program called Fighting For The Faith, by an American Pastor called Chris Rosborough. Pirate Christian Radio. Ive learned so much about the true gospel and the REAL Jesus since leaving the HS cult and listening to him. Look him up on FB. Its worth it.
@ I love Jesus – we are long term subscribers to Fighting For The Faith, and consider Chris Rosebrough a close friend of many who comment here. Pleased to hear your spiritual walk is strengthened by his ministry.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Certainly as Biblical followers of Christ we are called to uphold the truths in the Bible, especially in the morally decaying world we are in today. But while we do so, we must be careful to not be like the Pharisees. So focused on the law that we miss the entire point of the gospel – love, redemption, and restoration. And when we must rebuke and hold others accountable, is an anonymous blog really the biblical way to approach those that you disagree with?
After Paul wrote Romans 16, he also wrote to the church in Philippi and said:
Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. 16 The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice – Philippians 1:15-18
At the end of the day is Christ being proclaimed through Hillsong and these other charismatic churches? Sure they may misinterpret or misunderstand parts of the Bible, but don’t we all? One of our fundamental beliefs across all denominations today is the Trinity, but even that wasn’t really understood or widely accepted until the first councils of nicea and constantinople in the third century. In fact, many of our beliefs that are held by the acceptable “Anglican, Pentecostal, Baptist, Uniting, Reformed, Wesleyan or Presbyterian” this blog promotes weren’t established until the reformation. Is it fair to say that everyone before that were blasphemous, heretic false teachers?
All that to be said, I don’t fully agree with Hillsong, the way they operate a church, or some of the prosperity centric messages they preach. But at the end of the day, I rejoice because right now at the conference there are thousands of people that are finding Jesus Christ.
Beyond the words of Paul, lets all try and remember the essence of what Jesus Christ came to do as so beautifully laid out in John 8:
The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now din the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”
Sincerely,
A fellow reformed follower of Christ
“At the end of the day is Christ being proclaimed through Hillsong and these other charismatic churches?”
*** FALSE. Actually, Brian Houston teaches the Prosperity gospel:
“Well, if we want to prosper, and we want all the right things to prosper in our life, by all means! I’ve personally, (and this is a big statement, and I know I’ve said it before), but personally, I don’t think you can be in the will of God and not put Him first in your finances. I think I make some people mad when I say it, but I actually believe it. I actually believe that you can’t be right with God if you don’t get that basic right. That foundation right.”
https://preachersaidwhat.wordpress.com/2010/10/19/brian-houston-said-what/
“Sure they may misinterpret or misunderstand parts of the Bible, but don’t we all? One of our fundamental beliefs across all denominations today is the Trinity, but even that wasn’t really understood or widely accepted until the first councils of nicea and constantinople in the third century.”
*** FALSE. That false teaching exposed:
https://carm.org/early-trinitarian-quotes
“Certainly as Biblical followers of Christ we are called to uphold the truths in the Bible, especially in the morally decaying world we are in today.”
“But while we do so, we must be careful to not be like the Pharisees. So focused on the law that we miss the entire point of the gospel – love, redemption, and restoration.”
The issue with the Pharisees was that they weren’t believers but false teachers, false leaders and false prophets. The proof of this was John’s & Jesus’ accusation they were not bearing fruit in keeping with repentance. Thus after the Pharisees unfairly dealt with the healing of the blind man, Jesus Himself accused them of being thieves who steal, kill and destroy.
And Hillsong leaders and those they invite tick these boxes. They lie and steal people’s money through anti-Christian teaching, kill anything in their movements that try to promote Christianity, and destroy anyone who opposes them and their teaching.
We have analysed their teachings, their methods, the way they have handled Christians, their behaviour and have proven again and again that these men are not Christians. What is sad is that the world knows this but not Christians. And this is because Christians are blatantly REFUSING to be faithful to Christ and His Word and not picking up their bibles and use God’s light to test what is front of them.
“And when we must rebuke and hold others accountable, is an anonymous blog really the biblical way to approach those that you disagree with?”
This is the last resort. Hillsong, C3, Hillsong – all these cults reject and refuse the proper bibical procedures in dealing with offenses in ministry. They simply beat and bruise the sheep and force them out of their church and keep giving their members the impression that they are open to biblical procedures.
And anonymity is needed. Hillsong and C3 deliberately attack and smear critics publicly and relationships, families, businesses and livelihoods have suffered. This is why they are cults.
Anonymity protects Christians from these cults. We know that Hillsong and the C3 cults personally malign and attack Christians and churches who don’t agree with them.
“After Paul wrote Romans 16, he also wrote to the church in Philipp…”
And he called those preaching out of selfish ambition,
“Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh.” Phil 3:2
“At the end of the day is Christ being proclaimed through Hillsong and these other charismatic churches?”
No he is being hated by the world and blasphemed all the more because of all these “Dogs” and “evil doers” are blaspheming Christ and deceiving the faithful through fraudulent means.
Hillsong is not a church because they promote every other Jesus except the real one. The proof is in their sermons, literature and who they endorse. They just slap “Jesus” on anything fadical.
“Sure they may misinterpret or misunderstand parts of the Bible, but don’t we all?”
What you are doing just like so many people who attend or defend Hillsong is throw the downplay fallacy and this is anti-Christian since we are commanded to not to appeal corruption but to God’s standard and progression into maturity (Ephesians 4).
Downplay fallacy (Appeal to corruption) – appealling to a low standard or diminishing one’s office, nature, integrity, virtue orposition to win an argument. Eg. “The president may have lied – but all politicians lie.”
Compulsive liars do not fall into the category of ‘Christian’. Brian Houston has had over thirty years in trying to handle God’s Word correctly and he still can’t do it. No wonder he feels misunderstood. No wonder his movement attracts illiterate bible believing Christians and easy-believism.
“One of our fundamental beliefs across all denominations today is the Trinity, but even that wasn’t really understood or widely accepted until the first councils of nicea and constantinople in the third century.”
And you call yourself “Reformed”? This is a very liberal ‘downplay fallacy’ argument. But since you raise the ‘trinity’, how can Brian Houston believe the ‘trinity’ is he heavily endorses the modalist TD Jakes?
“this blog promotes weren’t established until the reformation. Is it fair to say that everyone before that were blasphemous, heretic false teachers?”
Oh you must be right! Guess that makes Jesus and Paul blasphemers… What kind of argument is that, FOC? A Reformed Christian would never argue like this.
“All that to be said, I don’t fully agree with Hillsong, the way they operate a church, or some of the prosperity centric messages they preach.”
It’s a false gospel. Those who believe it will be damned as outline in Galatians 1.
“But at the end of the day, I rejoice because right now at the conference there are thousands of people that are finding Jesus Christ.”
You rejoice because the Hillsong cult is encouraging thousands of Christians to embrace a false Jesus that will send them to hell.
“Beyond the words of Paul, lets all try and remember the essence of what Jesus Christ came to do as so beautifully laid out in John 8:”
Jesus spared the adulterous woman who was guilty. He said go and sin no more.
Essentially you are admitting that Hillsong is guilty. And what makes your response so off is that unlike the woman who repented, you are presenting a Jesus who wants to encourage a ‘church’ to continue in their whoring, unrepentant sin. That is very anti-Christian of view. Jesus would not encourage Hillsong to keep on whoring in his name. Sorry – that is so off.
Hillsong is no different to wicked Israel who whored after other nations. They need to repent and bear fruit in keeping fruit with repentance.
And you should agree with us on that. After all, you are Reformed right?
This blog is ridiculous. A bunch of random pastors from the country hating on one church? Why don’t you identify who you are ? Why don’t you use your time and energy to preach the Good News as you interpret it and not waste time judging others.
You people are the people Jesus spoke against – he who is without sin be the first to cast a stone.I assume you are not without sin?
So go back to your churches and preach the Word and let God do what He wants with Hillsong.
I think Hillsong is amazing and I don’ know the leadership closely but I know them enough to know their heart really is to spread the Gospel. My life was changed in the most amazing way when I attended Hillsong.
People are not perfect. No leader, no church is perfect.Someone could have a bad experience at Hillsong. They could also have a bad experience at your church – whoever you random people are!
You can judge a man by his fruit. Look at the fruit of Hillsong and the fruit of this blog. Hillsong is not perfect but the fruit is people knowing Jesus. I read things by Brian and Bobbie and I am filled with hope and encouragement and a desire to know God more. Good fruit.
This blog is filled with hate. I read this blog and I think what an utter waste of time. A bunch of people hating on others via a blog. Bad fruit.
Stop judging and stop hating. Go spread the good news. But first ask forgiveness for your judgmental spirits.
Another example of “shooting the messenger”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_the_messenger
Yes, we can judge Hillsong by its fruit. You’re an example of it. You care about outward appearances. You care about “life change” and positive experiences too much. You attack the critics *themselves* to avoid addressing what the critics are *saying* about Hillsong.
You read things by Brian and Bobbie….what about the bible? If you want to know God more open your BIBLE and read it in context. Read the difficult chapters as well as the easy ones. There are plenty of commentaries and sermons online.
e.g. The Book of Jude is only one chapter. You’ll NEVER see Hillsong preach on that – you should ask yourself WHY.
“Why don’t you identify who you are ?”
And be treated like Tanya Levin? Ar be treated like one of Frank Houston’s victims? Have you learnt nothing how these immoral cult leaders operate?
This is such a sad blog, what a waste of time. Don’t like Hillsong? Fine don’t go. But it’s sad you all sit here behind your keyboards acting like self proclaimed heroes. You are a bunch of sad losers and I really don’t care what you write in reply to me, because I will never be back to actually check if you post this. But just so you know, this is more of a laughing stock than a current affair.
Your website and commentary is filled with passion, but it takes a lot of time energy and money to keep up with things. Do you have a funding source and do you accept donations?
I though I could find some information about a concern regarding Hillsong, the concern is about some symbols I’ve seen in their covers, but honestly, when I saw your symbol here… it freaked me out. Your symbol GIVES ME THE CREEPS and it made me feel chills in my spine.
Hi ‘Concerned Christian’ – please read our ABOUT page. The symbol we use is an ancient Christian symbol that the early Christians used. We are to keep our eyes on Christ.
Funny that you’re so keen to expose who Hillsong are, yet don’t reveal who are the so-called “group of concerned leaders, pastors and elders from various denominations around Australia on Facebook.”. I believe the accused have a right to know their accusers?
Interesting isn’t it, “Anonymous”?
“I believe the accused have a right to know their accusers?”
I think I do enjoy the fact that Churchwatcher remains anonymous. It’s more intriguing that way.
“The viciousness of the attacks on those who have left these movements can be breathtaking.”
That is another symptom indicating this is a cult. Real Christian churches do not wish you harm for merely leaving.
I should not have said that is “another symptom.”
Rather that is “A BIG RED FLAG” indicating this is a serious cult.
Let GOD Almighty be the judge. I pray that you will not be consumed by your own righteousness!
God has given his church the ability to discern and judge right from wrong. It’s a shame your identity does not seem to be founded on God’s Truth.
“Let GOD Almighty be the judge.”
He has already spoken. It’s called The Holy Bible. You should ask Brian to read it sometime. You should take some time to read it also.
“Let GOD Almighty be the judge.”
The real God? Not Brian Houston’s fake new-age prosperity god, who is nothing more than a demon in drag?
You should take care that you are not consumed by your own stupidity.
I find it hilarious that one of your foundational verses says “I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions ”
What exactly are you doing?? LOL!
“What exactly are you doing??”
We are appealing “to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions.”
We are preaching the one TRUE gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ which equips,
“the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the UNITY OF THE FAITH and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,” Ephesians 4:12-13
You wont hear pop psychology sermons from us. No purpose-driven trash or prosperity-pimping sermons from us. We simply give you the scripture in contrast to what cult leaders say about God.
In fact, we encourage people to do the same thing against fakes like Houston, Pringle, Kong Hee, Noble, Furtick, Driscoll. It’s not that hard. Really.
Open your bible. Test them. You might get shocked how bad they really are. Do the work. Be Berean. Be Christian. Test the spirits. Test them against Christ’s Word. That is your job.
I think you should test the spirit you are functioning in coz heck I’ve tested the purpose-driven, prosperity sermons, the healing message, the Houston, Pringle, Kong Hee, Novle, Furtick, Driscoll and they all point to my Jesus and it all works. Perhaps you should do some testing more than accusing. Jesus is coming back soon, so you better not waste your time picking on the dirt in your brother’s eye and avoid the plank in yours. Just sayin’.
“I think you should test the spirit you are functioning in coz heck I’ve tested the purpose-driven, prosperity sermons, the healing message, the Houston, Pringle, Kong Hee, Novle, Furtick, Driscoll and they all point to my Jesus and it all works.”
And you didn’t notice how they contradicted themselves and the God of scriptures? Some ‘spirit’ you got there.
I can’t say I like seeing an atheist at the top of the page…
The heading will be changing soon.
@ Churchwatcher, I noticed your interesting Hall of Shame page. You might consider making it more visible on all your websites…
http://churchwatchcentral.com/berean-advisory/02-hall-of-shame/
Here are some other popular ‘Christian celebrities’ you might consider adding:
Brian D McLaren, Casey Treat, Cindy Trimm, Darlene Zschech, Dick Bernal, Ed Young Jr, Erwin McManus, Jim Staley III, John Avanzini, John Bevere, John Crowder, John Paul Jackson, Joshua Mills, Juanita Bynum, Judah Smith, Louie Giglio, Matthew Vines, Mike Bickle, Patricia King, Paula White, Phil Munsey, Randy Clark, Rich Wilkerson Jr, Rick Joyner, Robert Tilton, Rodney Howard-Browne, Stacey Campbell, Steve Arnott, Steve Munsey, Todd Bentley, Tony Campolo.
You might also consider alphabetizing your list making names easier to find…
~Andy
You better be careful coz you are crossing a very thin line here. Stop taking the Word of God out of context. Hillsong is a Bible believing church that profess Jesus Christ as the Son of God. You better be watch out coz you almost sound like the Pharisees the Bible talks about in Jesus time…. white washed tombs.
Jess do u read the Word?
what do u think ephesians 5:11 means??
why do u think brian houston never preaches on this or similar verses??
Yes, Smoky – truth seems to be conspicuous by its absence at Hill$ong ‘church’, doesn’t it? They would rather tell ten lies than admit to one error, scandal or scam…
“…And have nothing to do with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [expose] them…” Ephesians 5:11
Is the JW.ORG stand at Norwest shops across from Hillsong anything to do with you guys? Is the sign a spelling mistake, and should it be CW.ORG?
Well that should be obvious Newtaste. We’ve got one of those where I live, from time to time, in a major pedestrian mall and I can assure you that they give out Jehovah’s Witnesses publications and fake ‘Bibles’ too.
They are listed as a recognised cult by most ‘cult awareness’ ministries.
They do not preach a true gospel message at all.
They are taking millions of people to hell with them too.
Sounds familiar…
Hello, could you please clarify the statements you made at the beginning of this post, specifically the following:
1. They preach a false gospel (not good news).
2. They preach a false Jesus.
3. They preach a false spirit.
4. They preach a false Christian faith.
5. They preach blasphemies and promote heresies against God.
6. They falsely prophesy to manipulate people.
7. They reject the bible.
8. They parade false titles or false credentials to convince people they are genuine.
9. They promote or associate themselves with false teachers, prophets and leaders.
10. They fulfil the signs of a cult (counterfeit religion), using the acronym BITE and the + – x % model laid out in the below video.
Please address each point with specific examples, generalised and blanket statements will not help your case.
Regards,
Athena.
Hello Athena, before specific examples are posted (and there are many) I want to ask you when was the last time you opened up your BIBLE and compared what they are saying to the Word of God ? Once you do it properly you will never set foot in one of these cults again. I dare you to compare!
A good example would be Brian Houston’s prosperity theology. He teaches:
1. Jesus died to make us rich.
2. Jesus was exceedingly, abundantly wealthy by taking bible verses out of context: (John 10:10)
3. The Holy Spirit wants to unlock wealth in our lives when we “give” and will pour abundance in our lives so that we may flourish.
4. Houston preaches that we cannot be right with God unless we put him first in our finance. In other words, we must put faith in our finance to be right-standing with God. (Which is so erroneous.)
5. They preach the tithe which absolutely undoes the saving work of Christ where he has redeemed us fo the curse. To miss a tithe means we are under the levitical curse. That’s just heresy.
6. Houston prophesies over people by speaking abundance and life over them. He attributes this to a “prophetic utterance” so people in his church may flourish.
7. Because of the health and wealth focus, they reject to preach the full counsel of God’s Word because they know other passages contradict their beliefs. Thus rejecting the word of God.
9. Houston endorses and associates himself with other Prosperity heretics that preach the same heresy and blasphemy such as Joel Osteen, TD Jakes, Phil Pringle, Joyce Meyer, etc.
10.
B – Behavioural. (Look at Hillsong music and how music is used to manipulate people to feel that what they are receiving is from God.)
I – Information. Teachers will often leave scriptures out of context or condition people to only read certain things certain ways. They squash any questioning that may contradict what is taught.
T – Thought control. There is a culture of fear and intimidation where you can only speak and think positively. To do likewise is to hand your mind to the devil. They teach God wants you to have prosperous thinking so you can be a money magnet.
E – Emotional. (Musical manipulation and crowd control dynamics employed throughout the service to create a utopian-oneness where it feels abnormal to question or feel anything wrong. Hillsong specifically try and create an “atmosphere of faith”, something you will never learn about in the bible.
Hope that helped.
Hello Athena. Allow me to help you out here.
1. It is well documented that Brian Houston preaches the prosperity heresy. Nothing exemplifies this more than his book entitled “you need more money”. As God apparently “told” him to write it that makes him an exponent of the prosperity heresy. He has recently distanced himself from this book so at best it makes him naïve; at worst it makes him a false prophet. Second, there is no preaching of the need to repent and be forgiven of sins.
2. Brian Houston once said that Christian and Muslims serve the same God. I serve Jesus Christ, God incarnate, member of the Trinity, who came to earth, died for my sins and rose again. This is not the Muslim God. Christ IS NOT Allah. At best Brian has a faulty Christology; at worst he’s a heretic.
3. The Spirit Hillsong preaches is one that bends to our will. The spirit can only move when YOU do something. For example, need more money – tithe, need a miracle healing – exercise your faith And pray and the holy spirit will give it to you, need a new job – give money, need better sex – buy Bobbie Houston’s books;. What If the Holy Spirit doesn’t do any of these things? Well that’s because YOU didn’t have enough faith, give enough money or follow the right instructions in a book. This is very faulty pneumatology. The spirit has come as a comforter and convictor, not to act as some kind of marionette that we can control through supposedly exercising our faith.
4. Refer to no. 3. So if I get sick, and I pray and I don’t get better and I die is that because I didn’t have enough faith? NO. Hillsong teaches a word of faith heresy. Your words have power and meaning. No they don’t, well at least not in some kind of powerful spiritual sense. But my faith in God is resolute because I believe in the eschatological promises of the time to come. This earth is going to burn when Christ returns to judge the living and the dead. So illness and death in this life are a result of Sin. Christians are not immune to this. But in the next life, we shall be rejoicing with Christ in all His glory.
5. As above.
6. The Prophetic gift is now closed. From the CARM website https://carm.org/ – In the New Testament, the gift of the office of prophet was a temporary one granted by God for the purpose of building His Church. Contrary to the apostles, who had broad ministries, these men had localized ministries within local churches as we see illustrated in such places as Acts 11:21-28 and Acts 13:1.
Scripture shows us that the prophets of the New Testament had two primary purposes:They were gifted men given to the Church and appointed by God (Eph. 4:11, 1 Cor. 12:28) for the purpose of helping to lay the foundation of the Church (Eph. 2:20).They, like the apostles, received God’s revelation (Eph. 3:5) and truth and proclaimed it to their churches. It is important to remember that the early Church did not have a completed Bible, so God granted this revelation for the purpose of teaching His message to the Church. The New Testament prophets also spoke forth and taught the apostles’ doctrine. Everything taught by these prophets had to be consistent with the teaching of the apostles (1 Cor. 14:36-37).
So, are prophets still needed today? Looking at the two functions listed above, we can see that the office of prophet is one that is no longer necessary and has ceased within the Church because:
The foundation of the Church was laid long ago.
And God’s revealed Word was completed with the close of the New Testament canon. The Church’s foundation does not need to be laid again, and there is no need for further revelation beyond what God has provided for us in His complete Word, the Bible. Today we are blessed to have Scripture as our complete and final authority in all things (2 Tim. 3:16-17). If someone now claims to have received a “special revelation,” we must test it against Scripture. If it is contrary to the Word of God, then it must be rejected. If it is consistent with Scripture, then we have to ask why an “extra” word was necessary if its truth is already contained in the Bible. So while we always need men who are willing to proclaim boldly the Word of God as contained in Scripture (as pastors, teachers, and evangelists), there is no need for the office of “prophet” as it existed in the New Testament.
7. Refer to the above examples. No further discussion really needed.
8. “Ps.” Bobbie Houston. Women can’t be pastors, Scripture strictly forbids this. Check this out as a starting point. https://carm.org/women-in-ministry
9. Ok where do we start. Rick Warren (Unitarian), T.D. Jakes (Modalist), Joseph Prince (Antinomian), The Pope (Roman Catholic), Phil Pringle (false Prophet), Mark Driscoll (unrepentant Plagiarist). These are just a couple that spring to mind.
10. Behaviour Control. Umm look at their music. They control masses of people with their music “performances” each and every week.
Information Control. – Their continued well documented attempts to shut down bring legal action against or outright slander anyone who dares challenge or question what it is they do. There was an ex-member who was issued with a restraining order for daring to discuss them publicly.
Thought Control: – The mass amounts of publications that are generated by the Hillsong juggernaut telling people how to live etc. Just take a look at some of these book titles. “you need more money”, “How to maximise your life”, “Get a Life – principles for Success”, “How to flourish in life”, “For this I was born”.
Emotional Control: – The music that is played when the so called “Alter Call” is made. It is specifically designed to illicit an emotional response, not a rational one. There is no need to be Guilt tripped into accepting Christ. Come to Him as you are, an unworthy sinner in need of salvation.
Why don’t you stop with this, and work on you own? Instead of beginning a church movement in the web, you work to cause controversy. I don’t attend a Hillsong Church, I live thousands mile appart from one of their church,,, so why to defend them… I only think that it would be better you to forget Hillsong, if they’re wrong they shall pay for their sins, not you. It’s not your sin, you are holding a heavy cross that is not even your own, it’s Brian’s cross, he will give account of himself. So why not better to pray for Hillsong if they ´´wrong´´, as you say.
Blessings!!!
Dennis from Honduras.
Hi Dennis – if they are wrong then they may take many people to Hell with them, and I’m sure that you wouldn’t want to see that happen. The Bible gives ample reasons to expose false prophets and to stop the mouths of false teachers, and many of the folks who post here regularly feel strongly about that.
It’s not just a simple matter of “leaving Brian to the Lord” as so many cowards have done in the past (I’m not accusing you of that,) as this results in mayhem and havoc throughout the church, with many people not discerning the kind of false church that Hillsong is. Many people also realise just how “wrong” Hillsong is, but won’t leave because friends and family are still stuck there.
I’ll just leave you with one scripture which hopefully will allow you to see where all of these warnings are coming from:
“17 Now I beseech you brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which you have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.”
Romans 16:17, 18
So to “mark and avoid” means to mark them (expose) them in such a way so that others can avoid them. The point being that false teachers preach things “contrary to the doctrine” which was handed down by the apostles – not some fables, or half truths concocted by people such as Brian.
To see the error of Hill$ong’s way and fail to warn people canlead to dire consequenses for those who remain silent on these matters…
“I only think that it would be better you to forget Hillsong”
That’s a problem Dennis. It doesn’t matter what you say, it matters what the Bible says. You MUST go by what the Bible says, otherwise everybody uses human reasoning and opinions (like you erroneously did).
Among other verses:
“Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith ” (Titus 1: 13)
“Instead of beginning a church movement in the web, you work to cause controversy.”
Not really. The controversial ones are Hillsong for rejecting God and His Word.
“if they’re wrong they shall pay for their sins, not you”
But people are not seeing they are wrong. The fact we are recording all their lies and cover-ups, people are leaving before they get hurt because of their lies.
Hi Churchwatcher – am OT for a moment – I’ve just become aware that HillSong Brisbane has opened up another ‘outreach’ in the suburb of Springfield.
Here’s a link to the scant information available on their local website:
http://hillsong.com/brisbane/west/
Doubters who post in criticising the CW websites must understand that Hill$ong’s plan is one of regular and resolute expansion, at the expense of all other churches and ministries. That’s why they are ‘contemporary’ because they will do anything to gather a crowd and preach their false doctrines to an unsuspecting group of first timers…
And that’s why we must continue the exposes’, so that innocent/gullible people won’t become involved in the first place…
Another thing I noticed on their ‘City Campus’ website, was that those previously listed as ‘pastors’ for the Valley outreach, have been disappeared from the ‘team’ part of that “church”:
http://hillsong.com/brisbane/city/
I’ll see what I can find out over the weekend…
Thats All we need in Brisbane, another Hillsong. Im sure COC/INC are thrilled about that one.
Hillsong is like a poison that keeps spreading.
I don’t see any Christina love, grace or mercy on this website. Only judgement hatred, and accusation. If I were looking for Jesus, the king of love, grace and mercy I see it at Hillsong every time, and definitely not here.
yeah because not looking after sex abuse victims is really showing Christ’s love, grace and mercy.
“I don’t see any Christina love, grace or mercy on this website.”
u definitely won’t find those at Hillsong. Hillsong is a farce.
do u think Hillsong showed Tanya Levin love grace and mercy??
Hannah – the kinds of things you are talking about, are essentially ‘fruit’ of the Holy Spirit:
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.” Galatians 5:22
Hill$ong won’t produce much in the way of ‘fruit’ because they are not heavenly minded. The Houstons and their inner circle are all about property and money and not obeying the word of God. Neither are qualified to be leaders in any church setting, so why believe them?
Thousand leave every year worldwide (try asking them for those figures) and yes, thousands (of gullible people) come, so why should they go after those who have left? All they have to do is fill enough seats to make their annual financial targets, so does it really matter who fills those seats? It could be anyone – even you…
They don’t chase after any former ‘lost souls’ – so where is the love, grace and mercy that you’re talking about? Non existant at Hill$ong.
That’s because it is a cult that runs along business lines.
Recently I’ve been reading a lot about the JW’s and their cultish organisation (called the Watchtower) and when I compare them to Hill$ong, there are some striking resemblances.
Hannah, do yourself a favour and find a real church and forget about Hill$ong and its woefull attempt at masquerading as a Christian church – it is not!
ONE thing is ever certain,THE WORD OF GOD IS TRUE.
Amen!
http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/hillsong-preacher-brian-houston-mishandled-sex-allegations-royal-commission-finds/news-story/39e6f707632e6e9e9e2927f03a709e8b
Hi, just leaving a comment, regarding Hillsong;
They are as corrupt as you say they are. To this day Brian refuses to acknowledge and step up and do the right thing regarding the boys his father Frank abused; I know , I’m one of Franks toys, left my life in shambles.
At least the Royal Commision has recommended that numerous Hillsong leaders including Brian be charged with covering up and sheltering a pedophile.l
Dave, your so called facts above are just completely wrong, but I understand that because you have CHOSEN to continue to be a victim.
Dave, you are the ONLY one hurting YOURSELF now and reminding YOURSELF of what happened. This is a CHOICE. Frank is dead, and Hillsong had nothing to do with Frank and his church until after they found out what had happened.
Lying and being angry is not only effecting you now you are effecting me and others. You are now AS BAD as him with your anger and HATE of those at HILLSONG that had NOTHING to do with it.
So unless YOU choose to move on instead of causing pain in OTHER peoples lives to fill a gap.
Get help, because I’ve had enough of your lies (and so have the commission who DID NOT believe you AND PROVED you were lying as your facts aren’t even plausible.
Get help bro. Only you are reminding you of your past, no-one else is so you are not the person hurting yourself.
I do hope you get help so you can stop hurting everyone around you, but it’s your call to hurt or help those around you, and right now you’re hurting everyone around you and that’s no ok, ever.
The site owner is also liable for any comments posted (and approved = they also are echoing and saying themselves publically), so I hope that they understand defamation suits because this is too far.
To the best of my knowledge, every church relies on volunteers (eg. Vacation bible school leaders, Sunday school leader, ushers, etc). You seem to view Hillsong volunteers as slaves to the church, but in reality they are passionate followers of Christ doing what they can for the church – not just Hillsong church, but God’s church.
Every church needs money and tithes and are vital to expanding the church (Not to mention that God calls us to tithe). Money allows Hillsong church to touch millions of lives around the world, which in turn allows them to spend eternity with Christ.
As for the “cult” accusation, Hillsong church believes in the same God that is described in the doctrine of Christianity. The only difference is that Hillsong focuses on the love and relationship with Jesus Christ, not just trying to be perfect, because only Jesus is. Hillsong does not try to cover there sins by altering the doctrine, but rather share the news that we are all saved by grace, which is the joy of the gospel. Hillsong teaches love and the joy in knowing Christ. Your definition of a cult is correct, but your definition and understanding of Hillsong church is scewed. I pray for you and for those who leave the church based on your claims.
“To the best of my knowledge …”
The best of your knowledge is rank ignorance.
“… God calls us to tithe”
That is a lie for which God will rebuke to your face at the Judgement.
“As for the ‘cult’ accusation …”
It is not an accusation; it is a fact. hillsong is a cult.
“[h]illsong [cult] believes in the same God that is described in the doctrine of Christianity.”
So does the Devil himself (something that you would know if you had actually bothered to read the Bible). Brian and Bobbie Houston’s mental assent and lip service will not save them from the flames, and if you are unable to comprehend that simple fact it would only be because you are going to share in their eternal fate.
“… your definition and understanding of Hillsong church is sc[r]ewed.”
Actually it is God Himself who calls hillsong what it is; we simply agree that all his judgements are righteous and true.
“I pray for you and for those who leave the church based on your claims.”
How nice. What a shame that you don’t understand that your prayers are just like your life: completely devoid of the presence and power of God, and utterly worthless as a result.
“You seem to view Hillsong volunteers as slaves to the church, but in reality they are passionate followers of Christ”
They cannot be passionate followers of Christ. Passionate followers of Christ study the Bible, but Hillsongites have proven a hundred times on this website they couldn’t tell you what the Bible says about anything if their life depended on it.
“tithes and are vital to expanding the church”
Tithes are vital to expanding Brian Houston’s church, because without that lie he couldn’t keep Hillsong in business.
Tithes are not vital to expanding THE REAL CHURCH because Jesus nor the Apostles never said to tithe.
“Not to mention that God calls us to tithe”
Give us the verse where God calls us to ‘tithe.’
“Hillsong does not try to cover there sins by altering the doctrine, but rather share the news that we are all saved by grace,”
Brian Houston preaches you ‘can’t be right with God if your pocketbook isn’t right with God.’ That isn’t grace (it’s works)…. But it does fit in well with his tithing lie and his Prosperity Gospel. That IS altering the doctrine.
“Hillsong does not try to cover there sins”
You’re right about that one, Hillsong proudly flaunts their promiscuity in front of the whole world. Just ask Justin Bieber!
“Hillsong teaches love and the joy in knowing Christ.”
No, Hillsong subliminally pushes the love and joy in money, wealth, fame, fortune, success, happiness, and being your best you.
” Your definition of a cult is correct, but your definition and understanding of Hillsong church is scewed.”
Point us to 1 biblically accurate teaching by Brian Houston. Brian Houston’s teaching is screwed, therefore it follows that Hillsong is in the toilet too.
“I pray for you and for those who leave the church based on your claims.”
Why? The ones who leave are the ones that have discernment, hear the Holy Spirit, and are following Jesus.
For you LoveofChrist, a 21st century version of C.S.Lewis’s novel “The Screwtape Letters”.
Blog entry giving demons directions on how to mislead Christians, using Seeker Sensitive church methodology.
http://jaredmoore.exaltchrist.com/christian-truth/20-ways-to-poison-the-monsters/
Why waste your time tearing people down… Go out and do what Jesus said, cast out demons, heal the sick, raise the dead. Love your neighbor as yourself. Preach the Gospel.
Talk is cheap, walk the walk. Show me your faith by your works… This blog is a joke.
The Lord is raising up a generation of warriors, your work like this blog will be and is overlooked. If your not with us your against us. Stop playing internet games and go set the captives free. Love the broken and save the lost. So you have a voice…. Use it to heal.
This blog is embarrassing. While God’s warriors are out here doing His work fighting the devil and tearing him apart. Your here, doing this blog…
Like I said, God’s raising a generation of warriors. Join the fight or get out of the way.
The world knows Jesus as a lamb, they haven’t seen Him as a lion. We represent him as lions. We are the tribe of Judah, people of praise. Soldiers on the front line laying our lives down for our brothers and sisters.
I support Hillsong, real recognize real. Your words are fake and full of hate. Learn how to love.
Thanks for the feedback, X (madeupemail@yahoo.com).
You obviously demonstrate the courage of your own convictions publishing anonymously?
“This blog is a joke.”
x, The jokes on you. Here’s the truth, you’ve never raised anyone from the dead.
Hence, you are a liar, just like Brian Houston.
“The world knows Jesus as a lamb, they haven’t seen Him as a lion.”
And Brian Houston is known as a posturing buffoon.
“Soldiers on the front line laying our lives down for our brothers and sisters.”
Is Brian Houston laying down his life for his brothers and sisters? I thought he was storing up treasures on earth for himself and his family.
“Talk is cheap …”
Do you think so, x? Brian Houston is paid a salary of A$300,000 per annum – do you really think his ignorant bluster comes at a bargain basement rate? What about *you*, x? How much do you get paid each year? Do you need more money?
“Stop playing internet games and go set the captives free.”
everyone is trying to set you the mindslave free from the hillsong cult.
“This blog is embarrassing.”
whats embarrassing is your Bible illiteracy.
“While God’s warriors are out here doing His work fighting the devil and tearing him apart.”
warriors?? You?? Thats funny. You’re the one getting torn apart. First by the devil, and now by the truth.
“We represent him as lions. We are the tribe of Judah, people of praise.”
who you be foolin, sport? Youre the tribe of Hillsong Idiots, you and Brian attempting to be Christians without using the Bible. What could be more pathetic than that??
“I support Hillsong”
no kidding?? however True Christians support Jesus.
“your work like this blog is overlooked”
Really? If it is “overlooked”, why do you find yourself compelled to comment here?
“We represent (Jesus) ….”
Are you sure, x? Brian Houston has said that you serve the same God as the muslims – do you really believe that?
“…. as lions”
No, you are not “lions” – you are “liars”. There’s a very big difference.
“…raising a generation of warriors…. join the fight…. as lions… soldiers on the front line….”
Joel’s Army terminology. Hope those words you’ve used are purely by chance and not from you absorbing Hillsong’s own teachings(?).
http://herescope.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/the-battled-bride.html
http://www.wrs.vcu.edu/profiles/Joel'sArmy.htm
“While God’s warriors are out here doing His work fighting the devil and tearing him apart.”
@X, If you are supposedly “fighting the devil and tearing him apart”, then why are there so many false teachers in Hillsong Church (like Brian Houston), and so many false teachers drawing thousands yearly at the Hillsong Conferences?
Maybe “God’s Warriors” need to come up with a new emergency “battle plan.”
“The Lord is raising up a generation of warriors, your work like this blog will be and is overlooked.”
Sounds like NAR Manifest Sons of God talk to me… God is raising up a remnant church that will be faithful to the true Gospel of Jesus, to the end.
“He that endures to the end shall be saved…” Matthew 24:13
I can’t believe i even clicked on this website. The devil is using you. Pride has made you believe that you are right and in a place to cast judgement by spreading hatred. You need to repent (and those who comment on this negatively) and live a life serving God, working on you likeness to Jesus. You remind me of the Pharisees. I can only imagine that you are very negative, cynical and bound by anger. A person who complains: speaks negatively over him/herself in trying to do good. This is a bad forum that is actually doing more harm than good. You are giving people a platform to speak words of death. You should try and set people free without enslaving them to the words they speak. You should encourage people to forgive, repent for harbouring anger and to move on. You are doing the opposite. Anyhow, I pray for you with love and sincerity.
You are braindead.
If the devil is using us, why are we exposing lies, coverup, sexual immorality, blasphemy and hypocrisy? Do you think the God or the devil exposes sins? Do you think God or the devil calls sinners to repentance?
This blog is full of such bitterness and arrogance and judgement. I pray God softens your heart and heals whatever wounds that are left upon it for you to feel the need to dedicate your time and energy into tearing anyone, Pastor or bus driver or teacher or atheist, apart. Regardless, I pray that God unveils the extent of His great forgiveness and challenges you to replicate such. Don’t succumb to the evil that is a sense of pride great enough to convince you that you are mighty enough to cast judgement on anyone. You are loved. Be blessed.
Bitterness against what, Chelsea?
The Apostle Paul constantly called evil for what it was. Do you think the Apostle Paul was bitter?
In fact, he said we are to call it out too. So explain yourself.
“This blog is full of such bitterness and arrogance”
Didn’t Brian Houston treat Frank Houston’s victims with arrogance? Why don’t you go call out that?
Hi,
In Hillsong church Jesus reverted me back to focusing on him instead of rituals and I’ve felt his love, spirit, and presence in my heart. I’ve felt the Holy Spirit in Carl and it made me cry the Holy Spirit doesn’t lie. Anyway, this is the only blog I’ll respond to because I’m not going to focus on the negative of the world, but it surprises me that a place where the presence of God is soooooo obvious and felt that this would come up. Even in writing this the Holy Spirit is telling me to not even be on this page because of the obvious lies…………………
“In Hillsong church Jesus reverted me back to focusing on him instead of rituals”
So you don’t ritualistically tithe at Hillsong or ritually speak to your circumstances?
“I’ve felt his love, spirit, and presence in my heart.”
We can make you feel a lot of things in your heart and spirit and that does mean you know the Holy Spirit.
” I’ve felt the Holy Spirit in Carl”
Then you are believing and following another spirit. The Holy Spirit is also called the Spirit of Truth and will ask you to compare His Word to any teacher.
Why would the Holy Spirit affirm in your heart the words of a man who twists the Holy Spirit’s Word?
“I’ve felt the Holy Spirit in Carl and it made me cry the Holy Spirit doesn’t lie.”
The Holy Spirit doesn’t tell people to put Gay men at the front of the choir.
The Holy Spirit doesn’t say it’s okay for Gay men to get married.
“Even in writing this the Holy Spirit is telling me to not even be on this page because of the obvious lies…………………”
What’s obvious is you are as completely deceived as the deceivers Brian Houston and Carl Lentz themselves.
Well … I attend a Hillsong Homegroup and this year we have a goal to individually read the Bible in 12 months. We also have made a commitment to spend more time in prayer and we thought an ideal beginning to this year would be to spend an evening in worship. All I can say is that Brian Houston and his co-horts are doing a pretty bad job! What’s the idea of spending more time in God’s word and prayer and worship? Anyway – what’s the point of defending our commitment and love for Christ … I go to a ‘Hillsong’ ministry – and that has to be a bad thing. I should be attending one of these many ‘Reformed’ churches that get the big thumbs up from your website. Maybe I should set up a reformedwatch.com website or catholichersey.com website or letspickoneverjoelosteensermon.com …. bless ya brother but after walking with the Lord (can I use that term … is that Biblical?) I love my fellowship with my Hillsong brothers and sisters just as much as I have enjoyed my time in the past at the Church of Christ, Brethren and Church of England churches I’ve regularly attended. I’m not defending all ministries and TV evangelists but I think we have enough Christian ‘moral police’ on the social media scene who are enjoying their ‘pick on the preacher’ role. Yours in Christian love … and I do mean that.
“Well … I attend a Hillsong Homegroup and this year we have a goal to individually read the Bible in 12 months. We also have made a commitment to spend more time in prayer and we thought an ideal beginning to this year would be to spend an evening in worship. All I can say is that Brian Houston and his co-horts are doing a pretty bad job! “
My take on this is there definetly are some Christians w/i Hillsong Church, but few of you see the wicked side of what is going on with Brian Houston.
Yes Christians who have found some other Christians, but all of you lack discernment. You are paying money to an institution led by a very corrupt leader.
Your own personal growth does not make your leader correct or great or right.
Wow it must truly suck being so full of vitriol and lies. I’ve never set foot inside a Hillsong church and probably never will but I don’t see you setting up drug rehab centres, single mums shelters, building schools in African villages, I could go on and on but I do see Hillsong doing all of those things. Why dont you concentrate your religious zeal on those things.
Hi Rubbishwatch – Hillsong parade “good works” in front of people and destroy people behind the scenes.
If, by your standards we are “so full of vitriol and lies”, then you need to encounter Brian Houston. If you think there is something wrong with our behaviour, you’re gonna hate Brian Houston.
“Wow it must truly suck being so full of vitriol and lies.”
You should know – the life of a hillsong troll certainly isn’t all beer and skittles, is it?
“I’ve never set foot inside a Hillsong [cult building] and probably never will …”
Of *course* you haven’t (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).
“… but I don’t see you setting up drug rehab centres, single mums [sic] shelters, building schools in African villages, I could go on and on …”
So despite the fact that you have never set foot in a hillsong cult building, you are nonetheless remarkably well-informed vis-a-vis their parade of “good works”. How very convenient
“… but I do see Hillsong doing all of those things.”
Maybe, just for something different, you should read your Bible – why don’t you have a look at 1 Samuel 16:7, and see if you can figure out what it means.
“Why dont [sic] you concentrate your religious zeal on those things.”
We leave religious zeal for Brian Houston as he assiduously accumulates the wealth that he so craves. Isn’t it a shame that neither Brian nor Bobbie will be able to take so much as a single cent with them when they die?
“I’ve never set foot inside a Hillsong [cult building] and probably never will …”
Of *course* you haven’t (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).
“… but I don’t see you setting up drug rehab centres, single mums [sic] shelters, building schools in African villages, I could go on and on …”
So despite the fact that you have never set foot in a hillsong cult building, you are nonetheless remarkably well-informed
It is obvious that Rubbishwatch.com takes after his glorious leader Brian Houston. They’re both liars.
Brothers and sisters, Jesus came to earth to save the lost. To love the oppressed and the lost. Not to hate them. When you read the text of the apostles you would see that as a figure of speech, they said that we should do nothing with “these” people whom we have rebuked and have not accepted our heed. What the apostles were depicting here was “do not become like them” but still pray for them and love them.
God’s heart aches when we hate each other. Jesus’ heart is in pain when we do this. Jesus wants us to pray for them for our true enemy is Satan. Hillsong has the Holy Spirit trust me and it would never be a perfect church. Satan has blinded us even the elect to fight against each other. LOVE must abound. Don’t be deceived by Satan’s thoughts of thinking that Illuminati signs and people wearing good clothes would mean that they are an enemy of God. Sin is the enemy of God! The father of all liars is Satan! Look through the eyes of the Holy Spirit.
Christians must rise up not to judge but rebuke with love. Rebuke people with the blood of Christ, with the Holy Spirit. God’s thoughts are way higher than what we see of Hillsong church. There will always be some in any church that would stand up for God and rebuke wrong ways but most importantly, pray with love for the people who are going the wrong way.
With Lord Jesus in my heart I rebuke you brethren and say that I love you the way Jesus is showing me right now. One day we would see that we have wasted our God given opportunity to love our brethren.
Holy Spirit fall in us I pray and make us all true witnesses and fight Satan with burning fire in our hearts that is from you Jesus.
Amen. Amen. Amen!
“Hillsong has the Holy Spirit trust me”
Why should I trust you? I would rather trust the Bible. It says neither Brian Houston NOR Hillsong have anything to do with the Holy Spirit. BrotherInChrist, you need to start trusting the Bible, rather than in your foolish heart:
1 John 2:15: Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them.
James 4:4: You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
Brian Houstons is not pastor he’s a businessmen.
The Lord Jesus Christ of the bible would never command other Christians to disobey scripture. We are to defend the faith, not tolerate false teachings/ teachers. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jude&version=KJV
The Lord rebuke you for commanding bible believing Christians to follow the false Jesus, Charismatic version. The imaginaryJesus whom commands:
* tolerance no matter what
* feelings/ inner impressions to be obeyed not scripture
* makes commandment “don’t judge EVER” outrank all other commandments, e.g. “thou shalt not bear false witness” (Houston lying about Driscoll appearing at 2015 Sydney conference)
Charismaniacs like you are following the same pattern as “Western country softie Muslims”***. Instead of admitting wrongs (e.g. “naked cowboy” incident) and taking action to prevent them reoccurring, Charismaniacs pretend it never happened and accuse/ bully into silence Christians who expose false teachers of being unloving, legalistic, not following the leading/s of the Holy Spirit (or whatever catchphrase is in latest fashion).
The Lord rebuke you for commanding Christians to love unthinkingly like pagans do. The Lord rebuke you for commanding Christians to fellowship with Christians use the name of Christ when it’s useful to them but live like pagans.
——–
***instead of cultural Muslims NOT publicly disowning Muslim extremists (who follow Islamic texts literally) they keep silent, even defend them/ blame Western cultures by saying *translation* “well if we (Muslims) were always accepted/ pandered to/ never contradicted, those Muslims who feel ostracized wouldn’t have joined ISIS in the first place, so it’s really YOUR fault, YOU need to accept us or ELSE)”
“With Lord Jesus in my heart I rebuke you brethren and say that I love you the way Jesus is showing me right now.”
Jesus wouldn’t show you something that violates the Scriptures.
Perhaps you are hearing from another Jesus, and another spirit. In the same way that Mr. Houston preaches another gospel.
2 corinthians 11:4 “For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.”
I am happy to see finally someone that is Not afraid to expose Karl Lentz and Brian Houston , Jesus Warned about those pastors that are ” Itching the ears of the multitude all in the name of their “god ” mammon . This Mega church has turned into the house of Babylon , now complete with flapper girls , naked cowboys , and youth pastors that are saying Homosexuality is ok by God ? , making millions of tax free dollars , and even brain washing the bible collage kids that ” if you don’t put volunteer time in we will FAIL you ! I cant even watch these two anymore if it makes my stomach sick then imagine what its doing the the Holy Spirit !
This house is divided and a house divided will fall and how great will be that fall !
Sad they are misleading millions with their dog and pony shows
and many in this church will say ” the Naked Cowboy was fine ! what ! so sexual lust is ok too ? lets add Elvis Was they not aware he was called the “king ” and he was into the occult , its just gets weirder and weirder they have excused a naked cowboy at a Christian women’s conference next folks will be scenes from Sex and the City complements of Karl Lentz Lord Jesus Please Come Quickly !
Jesus said ” my house is supposed to be a house of prayer you have made it a den of thieves . Hill-song serves a god but its not the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob
it is the God of MAMMON ! Jesus said also ” its easier for a camel to go through a eye than a rich man to enter heaven ! And warned you cannot serve 2 masters you will love the one and hate the other , They love Money ! They Do not love GOD
look around at what is more important all the lights , sounds and itching ears , all that money they make could feel all of Sydney’s poor ! It makes you Sick
And they make excuses for Sin , repeating the same line Joel Osteen says ” i cant look into a mans heart ” If you are a Born again Christian and you do not preach the Truth you are a lier !
sorry typos feed the poor in sydney , btw whats with Bobbie houston prancing around in a G string on the beach ? thats just wrong !
“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.” Matthew 12:31
You guys should be careful of what you call the work of the Holy Spirit and what you call the work of the devil.
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.” Galatians 5:22″
Take a good, hard look at your claims and actions and observe whether or not these fruits are evident in your lives. The bible says you will recognise a good tree by its good fruit and a bad tree by its bad fruit. If more and more people are becoming Christians through the works of this Church, how can you possibly be of such opposition???
Also, please recognise that Hillsong is not an organisation, but a group of individual persons, lives, and souls. You can not make accusations against the name ‘Hillsong’. We are people.
Please open your minds and your hearts. God will not reveal to you what you do not want to see. You must be willing for Him to show you the truth, not what you think is the truth. Separate your opinions from the truth.
God bless 🙂
“Take a good, hard look at your claims and actions and observe whether or not these fruits are evident in your lives.”
No! YOU take a good, hard look at Brian Houston’s life and LIES and “observe whether or not these fruits are evident.”
How can I take a long, hard look at his life if I do not know him personally? Should I just judge my what the media says about him? It’s a well known fact the media only shows content which will produce a reaction from the audience leading to a wider reach and more profit.
I cannot analyze every detail of Brian’s life. I do not think his thoughts, nor do I feel his feelings, nor do I know the innermost parts of his heart. Only God does, and God will do what He says will do to those who don’t obey Him.
What I CAN do however is look at my own life and ask the Holy Spirit to refine me and to work on my own flaws and weaknesses. I would encourage you all to do the same.
“You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye.” – Matthew 7:5
God bless 🙂
Thanks for commenting Jeremy. Hillsong represents itself in such a way that most people consider it to be a church. We, and others, have taken considerable time, as Bereans, to compare what Brian Houston and Hillsong have said as “representative” of God’s sacred Word. If you are willing, we commend some research to you and are very happy to consider your biblical objections to the opinions presented here:
http://www.piratechristian.com/search?q=Brian%20Houston&f_collectionId=55de6923e4b0316f2d24335c
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“How can I take a long, hard look at his life if I do not know him personally?”
By comparing his foolish satanic $$$ teachings to the Word of God.
“You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye. – Matthew 7:5
God bless”
You are the hypocrite, when you say “God bless” after you throws baseless accusations someone (at me & this website who by the way we are correct).
And you are the hypocrite for claiming to use Christian principles while abandoning the Word of God completely. Shame shame on you for your complete foolishness.
James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him,
20 let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Christians who tell another Christian to not judge EVER when that other Christian are concerned a false teacher is leading people astray into sin/ eternal damnation will receive judgement themselves from God on Judgement Day if they remain unrepentant.
The apostles rebuked Christians in error, exposed false teachers by name and gave extended teaching on “false teacher warning signs”. Do some reading of Book of Galatians, 2 Peter, Book of Jude and the Letters of John.
You should Google ancient church heresies and consider what would have been the consequences if church leaders had put Matthew 7:1-5* before defending the Word of God as YOU recommend. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Timothy+4%3A1-5&version=KJV
e.g. Athanius versus Arius (Doctrine of Trinity versus Jesus first created being, therefore lesser “god” than God the Father).
——
* consistent first line of defence from atheists and online Hillsongees- using a biblical truth:
1. to pass judgement on another Christian using the unsaved 21st century world’s extreme tolerance scale as the measuring tool NOT the first commandment ” love the Lord your God…”
2. as an agent of self-deception to avoid facing personal sin of self / church leadership
Thinker – We’re giving Jeremy some more homework.
“It’s important for Christians to have a grasp of heresies that the church has battled over the centuries, because they often return with new clothing, and the unprepared Christian is likely to fall into these old pits. Phil does an excellent job of looking at some of the major heresies that are revisiting the church today: Socinianism, Arianism, Pelagianism, Gnosticism, and Judaizing. This is an excellent 6 part series that will shore up some weak points in the church today.”
http://www.thegracelifepulpit.com/Sermons.aspx?code=PJ-CDA04
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye.” – Matthew 7:5
That Scripture does NOT APPLY here. Brian Houston is NOT a “brother”.
He USES the brothers to buy beachfront properties on Bondi and Valentino suits.
Jeremy – the Holy Spirit is also called the Spirit of Truth. First and foremost, can you please examine to see if the Spirit of Truth is evident in the teachings of the people we monitor?
If we do not have truth, we do not have love.
“Also, please recognise that Hillsong is not an organisation, but a group of individual persons, lives, and souls.”
Feel free to talk to Brian about that. He will tell the indidivudal that they need to be part of something bigger than themselves. He has no respect for individuals. The reports, articles and testimonies on this site prove he has no heart for individuals.
Hi guys, thanks for the helpful comments! Danziger I did not mean to call you a hypocrite I’m sorry, I was just drawing on the wisdom which the verse puts out 🙂
After your replies and some research I’ve been praying for the Lord to reveal to me the truth and only the truth and that I would open my heart to it without bias.
However I will say again that you can not have an entirely and absolutely truthful perception of an individual based on the things that are said about them. You must know an individual personally to discover the truth. If there were a large amount of people creating rumours and false accusations about your closest friend would you believe them or would you trust the personal relationship you have had with that person?
In the same way I would advise that you don’t blindly follow the media and other sources of information about Brian and Hillsong Church. Something you CAN do however, is actually attend the church and ask questions or even read one of Brian’s books, which he has invested his own heart into. His latest one is Live Love Lead, in which he shares some very personal moments in his life and gives an opportunity for people to see how he handled parts of his life in which he was most vulnerable.
He is a person like you and I! We are all lost and searching for answers!
“Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person GENTLY.” – Galatians 6:1
Thank you again for the helpful comments and I will keep praying for truth and clarity as you should too 🙂
Seems to me this whole website is based on trying to draw a deviding line between yourself and the hillsong church… isn’t that causing division?
“Seems to me this whole website is based on trying to draw a deviding line between yourself and the hillsong church… isn’t that causing division?”
Yes. But this division didn’t start with us. It started with Hillsong preaching a false gospel and leading people away from Jesus to their false Jesus. The dividing line is the Word of God. Christianity holds to it – Hillsong attacks and perverts it.
We aint the one’s deviating from Christ. However, if you do not agree with the god of Hillsong, guess who Hillsong has been relentlessly attacking since it’s inception?
Christianity.
So who are the one’s hating? Hillsong. They care only for themselves and not the damage they are causing to people in the Christian faith.
“For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.”
1 Corinthians 11:18-19
Can you tell me what this false gospel they are preaching is. I keep hearing all these vague comments about the hillsong church. I would have to ask if you are sure you know what the true Gospel is. I’m willing to bet you both share the same Gospel but have differing doctrinal beliefs. I bet that even with in your church peope have differing doctrinal beliefs. Which denomination is the right one, and if none are right are they all cults? Is everyone who doesn’t believe like you believe evil and going to hell? I’m not trying to be nasty I’m just trying to ask the tough questions. I may be in the wrong, but I ask you to consider that you may be in the wrong also. God asked Abraham to murder his son. Moss did murder an egyption. Rahab was a whore. The desciples picked grain on the sabbath and Jesus healed on the sabbath. People aren’t perfect. But God uses imperfect people. In the parable of the wheat and tares the Lord commands His servants no to pull the tares lest they uproot the wheat also. I’m sure you mean well.
FOJ, An assignment for you to do:
Here is Hillsong’s statement of beliefs: http://hillsong.com/what-we-believe/
Please show readers sermons/ speeches on following three points where Brian Houston directly teaches on one of following in accordance with statement of beliefs”
TRINITY (point 2), REPENTANCE** (point 3/5), HEAVEN and HELL (point 10)
OR
give bible chapter and verse ***in context*** to explain to readers how Hillsong’s practice (behaviour) contradicting theory (statement of beliefs) can be excused in these circumstances:
TRINITY: Modalist T.D. Jakes (anti-trinitarian) speaking at 2013 Hillsong conference
* http://matthiasmedia.com/briefing/2013/07/athanasius-speaks-to-jakes/
REPENTANCE: swapping bible versions to avoid the (apparently) dirty word “SIN”.
http://onceuponacross.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/hillsong-pastor-brian-houstons.html
Thanks in advance.
“God asked Abraham to murder his son.”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+22%3A1-18&version=KJV
That was to test Abraham’s faith. Abraham obeyed the command to sacrifice his son. God stopped Abraham from doing that by providing a lamb for sacrifice, often described as a foreshadowing of Jesus being made the Lamb of God on our behalf.
“Moss [sic] did murder an egyption [sic]”.
Yes Moses did kill a man (Exodus 2:11-14). He bore the consequences, having to flee Egypt to escape the Pharaoh’s wrath. He did not do that out of faith in God.
“Rahab was a whore”.
And she was justified by her faith in God. That faith was acted out.
Hebrews 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
“But God uses imperfect people.”
Is the phrase “imperfect people” found in any highly respected bible translation? (Message paraphrase doesn’t count). No, God uses SINNERS. The words sin, sins, sinned, sinning, sinner/s are frequently used in the bible. Don’t YOU be afraid to use those words…..
….but Hillsong church avoids those words like the plague. Why do you think that is so, Friend of Jesus?
Luke 5:32 [Jesus said] “I came not to call the righteous, but ****SINNERS**** to repentance.”
Ok I ask again because I’m looking for some clarity. What is the true Gospel? What is this false gospel hillsong church teaches? And what church is the correct church?
If you want to know the whole true Gospel in detail – the WHY as well as who, what, when, where and how- it is time for YOU to walk the Romans Road* .
http://www.gotquestions.org/Romans-road-salvation.html
BEGINNERS: “How to be Christian without being religious” ** openlibrary.org/books/OL24209988M/How_to_be_a_Christian_without_being_religious
ADVANCED: Library of bible commentaries: http://www.preceptaustin.org/romans_commentaries
—
* You’re typing coherently. You’re certainly capable of thinking and reading all by yourself.
** If you read/ buy this book please get a decent print/ internet bible translation to read the passages. (The one used is only marginally better than the Message paraphrase.)
This is just nonsense. This is a church divided. And for what? Because you have 9 bloggers and 80 Facebook followers while Hillsong has hundreds of thousands! Trust and believe, if the message was false, God would not allow Hillsong to grow as much as it is. Have you thought about that?
I’m at Hillsong every Sunday and the message is ALWAYS, ONLY JESUS. Always about love, grace, salvation in Christ. Have you even been or are you blogging about what you don’t know? People respond to truth and authenticity. Most see through lies as I do now with this blog. This is about hate, not truth. A house divided within itself cannot stand so you go ahead and keep bringing down God’s kingdom. Oh wait, I’m sure you’re out there saving people, clothing people, feeding people, spreading the Good News (*sarcasm* bc Hillsong actually does that). Nope, you’re just “exposing” false teachers while doing nothing to make this broken world a better place. Thanks for that. Smh
Amen! I agree “ForTheLoveOfTheTrinity”.
All we can do is throw pearls. If you want to trample the scriptures with your belligerence and apostasy, that’s your decision. At least everyone is starting to see the goats:
“As a result, because they are so busy attempting to be important, purpose-driven and relevant, Jesus turns into an idol to suit the desire and needs of the unbeliever’s pursuit to find ‘purpose’. This means the PDL leaders won’t know how to deal with those who are asking for more purpose-driven teaching. Sadly, this causes the sheep to starve while the goats are fed… and the show goes on. The real Jesus gets thrown out with His sheep while the goats flood the pews to be inspired by the Purpose-Driven Life of their relevant Purpose-Driven Messiah who is teaching them how to live out this purpose-driven gospel.”
So, to my question: Have you ever been or are you blogging about what you don’t know? Didn’t see the answer to that.
The church, as a whole, is in trouble. I see error on both sides of the issues presented on this site. Divisive for sure. Unqualified statements. If the words of Oceans Rise… demonstrates the mystic and explanations aside from scriptural references are heretical themselves, the lengthy description of the “CHIREYE”, not found in scripture, is as well.
“Chi-Rho” – This symbol was used by the first Christians in the catacombs as a Christogram (monogram for Christ) and was later popularized by Constantine, the Roman Emperor who assembled the Council of Nicea where the Nicene Creed was adopted. The Chi (Χ) and Rho (Ρ) are the first two letters of the Greek word “ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ” = Christos (Christ).
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
“The church, as a whole, is in trouble.”
And that’s because of people like Brian and Bobbie Houston, who purport to be part of God’s church but are not (because they are not saved).
“I see error on both sides of the issues presented on this site.”
There is no middle ground with God – either one is saved, or one is not. You need to make up your mind to which camp you belong, because double-minded people don’t receive anything from God.
“Divisive for sure.”
Yes, Brian Houston is divisive by virtue of the fact that he preaches a false gospel and attacks those who belong to God.
“Unqualified statements.”
Yes, every single statement that Brian makes is unqualified. That’s because he is neither qualified to speak on God’s behalf nor called to do so – he has simply inherited a corrupt empire and taken advantage of that accident of birth to pursue his own selfish and worldly ends, in the process blaspheming God as often as it has proved expedient to do so. Brian has struck a Faustian deal, and neither his fame nor his fortune will count for anything when he stands before God at the Judgement. Brian is now 62 years of age – how long do you think he has left to enjoy his “rewards” in this world? Maybe twenty years? Perhaps thirty? The time will pass swiftly enough, and, except Brian repents, he will discover to his eternal sorrow what is the fate of those who mock God and preach lies in his name. And those who fawn over him now will likewise join him in the place to which he will be eternally consigned, where there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth, and from which there will be no escape.
“Unqualified statements.”
StatementS is PLURAL. ‘Unqualified’ by whose opinion? Yours? And who are you? Why don’t you name some more statements you ‘think’ are ‘unqualified’, since you are such an expert, “Phil”.
“The church, as a whole, is in trouble.”
The Church is not in trouble. The Church are the only ones in the entire world who understand & rightly divide the Word of God, the only ones who carry the truth, and the only ones who are going to be raptured.
It is the Tares & the Goats who are in trouble. They are the frogs in the pot who understand nothing and are on the path to Hell.
“I see error on both sides of the issues presented on this site.”
Discernment doesn’t give a person ‘double-vision.’ You sound extremely confused.
Wow, “What we have here is a failure to communicate”.
I can not address the replies in their entirety adequately, so I shall speak to the issues most pressing.
1). Yes my name really is Phil and admin has my full name and can email me and I would be happy to talk by phone to verify my identity. I do understand that the site is ‘under attack’ and why anonymity is necessary.
2). As a sinner I have repented and put my total faith in the sacricial substitutionary redemption made by Christ, who came as God in the flesh. That gentleman – is the gospel.
I have never been to a Hillsong event or church. I am not a member of any church or religion but a sincere believer, in the body of Christ who does attend a small non-charismatic, non-denominational church. The free-flow of ‘Spirit gifting’, ‘prosperity gospel’, ‘self-edifying worship’ etc.., that I’ve seen is more than troubling to me, as I see it is to most on this forum.
I work with various churches in ministering to the poor and those in prison, not out of a need to perform ‘good works’, but in response to the scriptural calling to be obedient.
3). My exposure to these different churches has accelerated my interest in seeking a full understanding of what is taking place. Because I see problems in the church, or if you prefer, with Hillsong or Bethel like cultures, I came to this forum to gather facts. What I’ve found is less.
Summary
TO ADMIN and others posting.
Assume that I came here without disguise and what I’ve said is true. Look at the replies in this thread.
If you count yourselves as brothers in Christ continue to point out and cast down heresy without attacking those who come here for the very reason this forum exists.
The way you are attempting to do what God has called you to do is defeating the intended purpose. I am interested in your reaction, be it apologetic or continued personal, unqualified statements/attacks.
Sincerely
Phil
Phil – all comments go into moderation before someone in admin approves them. Some commenting here have been warned and after 3 warnings are blocked. We do expect people commenting to treat others with respect especially if they claim to be Christians. Your points are appreciated.
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
And some comments by others are in moderation now for not respecting our recent request. We do appreciate comments however we are more interested in getting the information to our many readers who obviously aren’t commenting. If that was the case, given the site stats, we would be vetting at least 1000 comments per day
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Milligan
The (a) church or group of believers is in trouble when anything is questioned and it’s met with personal attacks, rather than speaking the truth in love.
Rather than misquoting scripture let’s rightly divide the passage your referring to.
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
2 Timothy 2:15 KJV
1). The verse doesn’t say the “church are the only ones”.
It’s says the “workman” and is an exhortation to the individual for study.
2). The verse doesn’t say “Word of God” it says “word of truth ” and that individuals in how they divide it are not shamed but “approved unto God”.
You see sir I respect studying which is why I’m at this forum and do not take such a firm position, EXCEPT in the word. Please consider your response or the very people you damn may be confused into a belief that they are correct and no criticism is valid.
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